Dangers of Crying it Out (CIO)

Brittiany - posted on 07/05/2012

When Autumn was first born she was a very quiet baby, didn't fuss for a dirty diaper (still doesn't and nine months old) only cried when she was hungry. I had a roommate telling me I needed to let her cry, even after I explained that she only cried when hungry, that it would build up her lungs and make them stronger (he is from an older generation when doctors said to do that. Vietnam war vet) I didn't let her cry it out until she was much older. At about two months she went into a phase of not sleeping, if she did it was only an hour at most, it was a very tough time for me and her father (though he sleeps like the dead lol). It started right before her two month vaccinations she decided that she wasn't going to sleep very often. I understand that cause my niece wouldn't sleep for days when she was an infant (I know only cause I would watch her often while my sister was out) but with Autumn I didn't know what to do, none of the 'tricks' I learned with Raven didn't work. I tried switching to a thicker formula and that worked for about a week (I think it was that long, might have been shorter) in the end I talked to her doctor about it he said that she needed her sleep and told me that I could give her some Tylenol once a week to get her to sleep for a few hours (by this time it was a feed on demand, she was nearly four months old). Finally at six months she started sleeping on her own and through the night. I was told by a friend who has three of his own kids that it was odd that she didn't sleep through the night by four months (I shrugged at him and told him all babies are different lol). I have let her whine it out when she is over tired and still doesn't want to sleep but it usually doesn't take long for her to fall asleep although sometimes I have to leave the room and read for her to finally get the hint that it's nap/bed time. She's nine months old now and letting her 'cry' it out (though not a cry just some small whining noises) hasn't hurt her in the least. Although at one point I had to force myself to let her cry because it was for her benefit (she hated tummy time) it broke my heart to do this, I tried many things to make her more comfortable but it didn't help. I think parents will do what they will do, as mentioned before every baby is different, even from the same parents, somethings work for one that don't for the other. It's all trial and error, and eventually you find what works best for you child/ren. It was a difficult time from two to six months for me and her father. Stressed could not cover what was happening with that.

BreAnn - posted on 03/22/2012

Every baby is diffrent and i dont beleive cio is ment for every baby its diffrent. I used cio witj my son well after he was 6 months and after a week he was going in his crib at the same time every night with out crying. With my daughter it was not the case she has separation anxiety so i couldnt stand to do that to her. As a parent who knows your child you can tell what diffrent crys mean. If your child is scared hurt hungry or wet you need to tend to them. My son i could tell just did a small amout of fussing and whining when put to bed. My daughter on the other hand screamed like her legs were broke. If your baby handles ot well and you know they are ok then let him or her cry or whine it out. But if your child is really having a hard time i do beleive it can harm your relationship. As a parent you know whats best . You dont need reserch or a book to tell you.

Torri - posted on 01/30/2012

Wow some people have too much time on their hands! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I personally let my daughter cry it out but not until she was 18 months old. It worked great for me.

Brittney - posted on 01/22/2012

I let my daughter cry herself to sleep when she was 6-10 months old and now that shes 16 months old, she goes to sleep on her own just by reading a book...it worked for me and i would do it again...

Maria - posted on 01/19/2012

each to their own that is my opinion, if your method works for you that's great, i have nothing against other methods if it means every one gets a great nights sleep, the CIO method worked for me and i would use it again, my child only cried for 5 minutes if that for one night, since then he has slept from 7pm until between 7-8am, and still has one nap during the day from about 1pm until about 3pm sometimes until 4, i consider myself very lucky as he realized quite quickly how the sleep thing worked. there will always be times in their lives where you will have to disappoint them (and im sure there are studies out there against that as well) at every time most likely they wont understand why you have chosen not to do what they have asked, but sometimes mothers know best and i think encouraging good sleep patterns from a young age through a controlled method weather it be CIO or another method provides life time effects.

Lyssa - posted on 01/19/2012

good for you maria. i absolutely agree with you!

Lise - posted on 01/18/2012

@Maria: " i feel sorry for kids that you see walking around with bags under their eyes and generally grumpy and tired, how can a life time of feeling tired and grumpy out weigh a few minutes of controlled crying, please tell me?"



I have never seen a kid walking around with bags under his/her eyes, tbh. My daughter definitely does not. She gets a great night sleep without any crying.

Maria - posted on 01/18/2012

I loved the CIO method, and now my son is a strong confident two year old, he is well above his height and weight for his age as well as his reading, etc, i put it down to good nights sleep and a good diet, as with anything that involved kids there are always people for and against but at the end of the day if it feels right for you do it, I found it worked well as we all got the sleep we needed which made for a happy household, sitting up all hours of the night coaching your child to sleep while you get none yourself, how can a sleep deprived parent be a focused parent? For people who are so against it have you read both sides of the argument? I know when i seeked out help to sort out his sleeping problems i looked into the pros and cons, and then i research different ways of doing it then i took what i thought was good made up my own method and it worked so well i told friends and they also followed it, i feel sorry for kids that you see walking around with bags under their eyes and generally grumpy and tired, how can a life time of feeling tired and grumpy out weigh a few minutes of controlled crying, please tell me?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 01/18/2012

~~~ADMIN WARNING~~~



Anymore insults or rudeness between members and this thread will be locked. Please flag post with insults, cannot find them. I may have already deleted them, but ladies, this is why we flag.



Admin Marina

Kimmy - posted on 01/10/2012

Letting your baby cry is sad :(

Kellie - posted on 01/10/2012

*snorts* sour grapes anyone?

Lyssa - posted on 01/10/2012

when i said "arrogant," it was directed at the know it all statement that was made, not at her....

Danielle - posted on 12/29/2011

Thank you.

Katherine - posted on 12/28/2011

It worked so well, and he just kind of fell into it anyways....good luck Danielle, if you need support or anything just msg me

Danielle - posted on 12/27/2011

Katherine B I like that method for sure I think I may try my own version of that.

Katherine - posted on 12/27/2011

At 3 months old I did a varied attempt at CIO/Sleep training....my son was rocked/nursed to sleep for every nap/night. Once he hit the 3 month mark he was over 20lbs and was difficult to place into his crib asleep. he would scream once I placed him down and the bedtime routine of rocking and nursing/feeding with bottle would repeat. This went on for hours for about a week.

I finally had enough. My son was sleeping through the night at 3 weeks old, and he needed to get back onto a good routine. I would bath, rock and fed and then place him down awake, tell him i loved him, and that I was close by if he needed me and walk out. The first night he cried....and I let him go for a few minutes...(it took eveything in me not to go and scoop him up) but once i went into his room he stopped, i rubbed his back, told him i loved him, but never picked him up. this went on for 30 minutes....then he slept through the night again.

night 2 - same routine, but lasted only 10 minutes....slept through again.

night 3 - no crying - slept through.

My son is now 9 months old and only cries if warrented (hot, cold, sick, in pain, etc etc etc) he doesn't cry just to get my attention...he uses other methods to get my attention.

with our next baby, I will do the exact samething. it worked for my son and our family, and my son is happy, healthy and smart.....- ahead of the game actually!!!!

No regreats here

Danielle - posted on 12/26/2011

Sara I definitely feel the same way as you, I don't think I could let my baby cry. But at the same time I would definitely make sure it's a cry before going to get the baby. Since some like to be stinkers and psych the parents out. I honestly feel bad for parents whose babies are colicy and don't want to sleep... :( I hope I don't have to deal with that.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/26/2011

" I don't base my opinion on CIO on this study, but on behaviorism (which is how CIO works - through conditioning). "

Exactly. Even when I was a new mom and everyone told me I HAD to let my baby CIO, I knew that didn't seem right. When your baby cries hormones are released in *your* body that make you uncomfortable. There's a reason for that. I really have no ill feelings towards someone who uses CIO correctly (checks in a comforts baby frequently), but many people talk about leaving their baby to cry for hours. I choose not to leave mine to cry ever.

Danielle - posted on 12/26/2011

I have noticed with working with kids and dealing with my nephew (who has lived with me since he came home from the hospital) that there is a right way and a wrong way to go about the CIO method. My nephew was a preemie so to be honest we didn't really start using a cry it out method until he was about 1 or 2 because he got used to sleeping in bed with someone and he would scream and fight unless we let him sleep with us. So we would go and check on him from time to time to make sure he was safe and when he went quiet to make sure he was okay. I definitely think for this method there should be plenty of check ons to make sure the baby/child is okay. I've known some babies who tend to cry just to cry or they only liked being in someones arms. To be honest I don't know what method I will be using on my baby once my baby is born and hits 1 year old. I guess it just depends on my babies personality but whatever I choose to do will be done as safe as possible if that makes any sense.
Hope this helps to get discussion back to normal?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/26/2011

jillian, you and Liss may want to review t thumps policy that has been put into effect by CoM. This may help further clarification. It is directly below the comment box. There is a difference between opinion and insult. Now let's move on and continue the discussion, shall we?

Lise - posted on 12/26/2011

And as an aside, I never ONCE said only my opinion was right. I asked questions. I said "how is that teaching?" It was Lyessa who interpreted it differently.

Lise - posted on 12/26/2011

"Adjective:
Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities."

Arrogant describes a person. That makes it personal.

Jillian - posted on 12/26/2011

I can honestly say I didn't see it as an attack, but as a statement of opinion on someone elses opinion. The way -I- read it, was simply that she felt the statements were arrogant. Right or wrong, she is just as entitled to expressing her opinion as anyone else in a public forum such as this. I didn't see where anyone was personally attacking anyone else. (And as a side note, I have no idea who Lyssa is. Just my own opinion).

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/26/2011

Lyssa, when I said "arrogant" it was not directed at you, it was repeating what you called someone, and did not need to be flagged. what should have been flagged, was when you called someone that. It is a personal attack, and please refrain from insults in the future.

Lyssa - posted on 12/26/2011

thank you jillian, you read correctly

Lise - posted on 12/24/2011

Well, Jillian, Lyessa called me arrogant, which I feel was pretty rude name calling since I made so personal attack myself. All I did was ask her how it was teaching to leave a child alone to cry. Some people feel the need to stoop down to that level, I guess.

I do agree that every parent parents differently. It's one of the joys of being a parent, IMO. As for studies changing, they do - all the time. I don't base my opinion on CIO on this study, but on behaviorism (which is how CIO works - through conditioning). I was not meaning to attack those who choose to use it but the phrasing used - saying that leaving a child to cry is "teaching" them to soothe themselves and "teaching" them to fall asleep. I do disagree with those statements. It does teach your child that you won't respond to them in that antecedent condition, so it is teaching in a way, but I don't feel that it's teaching what people say it is (again, my belief). Is the end resut the same? Yes.

Jillian - posted on 12/24/2011

I don't see where Lyssa was calling anyone names? Did I miss that?

As for CIO, we did that with my son and he has been a self soother and slept through the night since he was about 3 months old (Although we didn't start CIO until he was six months). All the studies in the world can not and really should not tell you, as a mother, how to raise your child. You do what is best for your child and what works for your family.

Lets look at an example. For how many years did "the doctors" and "the studies" say that stiff soled shoes were the best for the developing feet of small children? And NOW, they are saying that its soft, flexible soled shoes that are best. So which study is correct? Or how about the studies about eggs? (Totally not child related, but it does relate to my point). First, eggs were good for you, and then they were the worst thing in the world to eat. And all of a sudden, they are good for you again, but wait!! This study says they aren't. Although this study says they are. So which is it? NO ONE KNOWS!! Why does no one know? Because medicine, psychology, all of that is not an exact science believe it or not. It is a guessing game. Now sure, you know how to treat a cold, broken leg and so on, but not everything is that cut and dry. Why you ask? Because every person, every body, every situation is different. What works on your cold, probably doesn't work on mine because of my own body system.

In other words, DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!! Express yourself, but quick bickering about who is right or wrong. You are entitled to your opinions and that is great, but basically telling someone they are wrong because of how YOU think... That makes you wrong.

Happy days everyone!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/24/2011

Yes, but showing studies proving why it is ok can be compelling to disprove points. It can be harmful, and I know we all get defensive when our parenting skills are in question. This is not meant to be personal, just trying to spread some good information.

And please Lyssa, no more name calling.

Lyssa - posted on 12/24/2011

i really don't need to, there are studies for and against both. it's had no ill effects on either on my children and we all get some sleep. so you do it your way and i'll do it mine

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/22/2011

Could you post some pro-CIO studies? Like I said before even Dr. Ferber (THE CIO doctor) is softening his views on CIO.

Lise - posted on 12/22/2011

@Lyssa: "it teaches babies self soothing. if you never let them learn that you'll be waking up with a toddler night after night because of habits they have learned"

How? How does it TEACH them to "self soothe"? How does it TEACH them to calm themselves?

I did teach my daughter to self-soothe. When she got upset over something, I'd tell her "Let's calm down" and lay down with her on her stuffed dog, show her how to take deep breaths, model squeezing her dog for comfort, rub her back, give her kisses, etc. Then I faded myself out. THAT was teaching (teaching through modeling), and now if she starts to get upset, she will take deep breaths. If that doesn't work, she goes in her room and hugs a stuffed animal while taking deep breaths. She calms herself just fine without having to be left alone to cry. CIO teaches kids to stop crying for mom under the circumstances in which they were left to CIO (e.g., dark room, in bed), but I don't see how it can ever TEACH them how to self soothe. Putting my daughter in a bathtub with soap and walking away isn't "teaching" her to bathe herself. Throwing her in a pool isn't "teaching" her to swim. You have to actively do something besides walk away, or every once in a while give a halfhearted attempt to calm ("shh shh stop crying, ok mommy's leaving again"), to say you're teaching (IMO). Teach (def): to impart knowledge or give instruction in.

Lyssa - posted on 12/22/2011

it teaches babies self soothing. if you never let them learn that you'll be waking up with a toddler night after night because of habits they have learned. they have learned that mommy and daddy will ALWAYS answer me if i cry in the middle of the night. as brianna said, if you do it gently and comforting without picking up the child, it's only a matter of a few nights that they learn to self soothe themselves back to sleep. with the exception of being sick or teething, let them learn this skill they will need to use for the rest of their lives!

Lyssa - posted on 12/22/2011

as brianna has said, you're always going to find research that supports both sides of any issue. so it's truly a matter of opinion and what you think is right for you or your baby

Lyssa - posted on 12/22/2011

i'm with you brianna, it was the only thing that broke my daughter of her nighttime "habits" of nursing. with that being said, when it comes to her being sick or her recent teething terrors, i'm there to comfort her at night if and when she needs it. but, we are careful not to make it a "habit" again. she is no worse for the wear, and we both sleep a hell of a lot better!

Lise - posted on 12/13/2011

Leaving a baby to cry for increasing amounts of time teaches them nothing about sleep. That's like me saying putting my kid in a car with it running is "teaching" her to drive or throwing my 2 year old in a pool and "teaching" her to swim. With CIO, you aren't teaching; you are ignoring a method of communication. Crying is the first and most basic form of verbal language/communication.



I do not believe in CIO methods. Not because of the research with regards to brain damage, but because of the behavioral principles behind it and the damage *I* believe it can do to a relationship. If my dh was a great help and support during the day but then ignored me at night because I "should" be sleeping/resting/leaving him alone, I'd be pissed.



Now, does that mean that I wouldn't let an older child cry a little who was saying something like, "But I want to watch TV?" No. At that point, crying is not their only form of communication. But when your child is young enough not to be able to express emotions, worries, fears, temperature comfort level, etc., then crying is their form of communicating with you. It's their ONLY method of communication. And they are too young to tact feelings (as far as we can tell), so what you may determine a superfluous "want" may in fact be a vital "need" to them.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/13/2011

That's by Dr. Ferber and like I said, he's clarifying his position.



"Some of the nation's leading sleep authorities are softening their long-held positions. In a coming new edition of his landmark 1985 book, pediatrician Richard Ferber is backing off his controversial system for training babies to sleep. The approach, which involves leaving a child to cry for progressively longer intervals until he or she falls asleep, has many ardent followers. But the crying method has also drawn loud criticism as being neglectful.



Dr. Ferber now says that letting children cry "was not meant to be the way to treat all sleep problems" and his updated book, coming this spring, will make it clear that he offers other solutions besides crying.



Dr. Ferber, 61, says that he has been largely misunderstood. When he first published his book in 1985, "there weren't any others," he says. The book, which has been reprinted 45 times, contains advice on a range of sleep issues, from bed-wetting to teens who can't get up for school on time. But he is most known for his signature controlled-crying method, which involves leaving a baby alone in the crib to cry for progressively longer intervals until he or she falls asleep. Parents are instructed to go into the room at the end of each interval to console -- but not touch or pick up -- the child.



Dr. Ferber, who is also director of the Center for Pediatric Sleep Disorders at Children's Hospital in Boston, says that now, "we've had a lot more experience. There really are a lot of different ways" for children to learn good sleep habits.



Co-sleeping is central to the attachment parenting approach touted by Dr. Sears and others. Even Dr. Ferber, who had been opposed to the practice, now says that sharing a bed can be effective for families.



Dr. Ferber says that he will be revising his book because some parts need to be updated. For instance, he says new research suggests that babies don't need as much sleep as he originally advised. And he wants to clarify that his crying technique was targeted at a specific problem: the child who can fall asleep only while being rocked or held. While he still presents this approach in his new edition, he says he tells parents they can use gradual steps to wean a child off of rocking and soothing behaviors. And he clarifies that some children such as those suffering from anxiety will not be helped by the crying method."

Brianna - posted on 12/13/2011

a book that supports CIO is "solve your childs sleep problems" i cant remember who wrote it my cusin is borrowing the book so i cant check it for the doctors name

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/13/2011

You've found credible books that support CIO? Even Dr. Ferber has changed his views and better explained his position. He says babies should be at least 6 months as well. I understand being tired, but babies don't understand why you're leaving them. I will not leave my kids to cry ever whether they're 4 months, 4 years or 40.

Brianna - posted on 12/13/2011

like i said kellie no matter what your view is you will always find "research supporting" which ever side your on with this subject. ive read plently of parenting books that agree with CIO but of course they are talking about babys at least 3 months old and thats what im talkin about also. so i stand by oppinion that parents should do whatever they feel is right for them and there child. also when i let my daughter CIO i kept checking on her and comforting (like i would stand there and rub her back) her but i just wasnt giving in to picking her up and rocking her because she would start crying again as soon as i sat down or tried to lay her down so it was a endless cycle. and the first night she cried for the longest time and then the night after that she cried for 2 min and the night after that nothing. so i think CIO was worth it because then she was happy to go to sleep on her own and got the sleep she needed making her a happier baby.

Kellie - posted on 12/13/2011

Here are reasons why CIO/CC are BAD. There's so much wrong with CIO/CC. It only has a detrimental effect on children, I have never and will never see positives in CIO/CC.

http://drbenkim.com/articles-attachment-...

http://www.phdinparenting.com/2008/07/05...

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-b...

HERE IS WHAT SOME RESEARCH TELLS US.....

"Leaving a baby to cry evokes physiological responses that increase stress hormones. Crying infants experience an increase in heart rate, body temperature and blood pressure. These reactions are likely to result in overheating and, along with vomiting due to extreme distress, could pose a potential risk of SIDS in vulnerable infants. There may also be longer-term emotional effects. There is compelling evidence that increased levels of stress hormones may cause permanent changes in the stress responses of the infant's developing brain. These changes then affect memory, attention, and emotion, and can trigger an elevated response to stress throughout life, including a predisposition to later anxiety and depressive disorders. English psychotherapist, Sue Gerhardt, author of Why Love Matters: How Affection Shapes a Baby's Brain, explains that when a baby is upset, the hypothalamus produces cortisol. In normal amounts cortisol is fine, but if a baby is exposed for too long or too often to stressful situations (such as being left to cry) its brain becomes flooded with cortisol and it will then either over- or under-produce cortisol whenever the child is exposed to stress. Too much cortisol is linked to depression and fearfulness; too little to emotional detachment and aggression."


It's been proven that CIO evoke these Physiological responses in infants and babies.

I think of it this way, you require comfort from your loved ones/partner, if they removed their comfort from you how would you feel? I bet you'd be on the Divorce train citing emotional abuse (withholding comfort I would consider to be emotional abuse), yet you (general) are comfortable withholding comfort from a baby?

Infants and Babies cry for a reason, for that matter anyone of any age cries for a reason, but an infant/baby/toddler can't communicate any other way. When we don't respond they learn to give up :( what a sad message to send to a child.

Brianna - posted on 12/13/2011

honestly there are so many studies that say the exact opposite.. soo really i say dont listen to any of these things whether it be for or against CIO and i say do what you feel is right for you and your baby. personally i use the CIO method and its worked really well for me. i used to rock my daughter till 4 in the morning every night and she would cry adn cry and when she would stop and id try to put her down she would just start crying AGAIN (or if i tried to sit down with her) so when i tried CIO she cried for like 1 and a half hours the first night ( my checking on her every 5 or 10 min but then the next night she cried for 2 min and then the next night didnt cry at all! so therefore CIO was a great choice for both of us because we both got the sleep we needed