Losec for Infants - Silent Reflux

Jennifer - posted on 01/03/2010

Thanks:) I did work with a lactose consultant in the beginning because of his choking- luckily he seems to have outgrown it. Today is day 3 of half dosage of Losec and he is fine. Fingers crossed he does not need it!

Renae - posted on 01/03/2010

Have you had a chat to the Breast Feeding Association? I spoke to them about my supply and they were very helpful and a full bottle on all the latest research. If you need any more advice about what you could be eating that could be affecting him def give them a call.



Best of luck, hope I've helped somewhat.

Jennifer - posted on 01/03/2010

He usually needs a nap 45 mins after waking and throughout the day as soon as he gets grumpy off to bed he goes! I can usually tell when he is tired (stares off into space and rubs his eyes) I think he may be waking during his light sleep phase and needs to get used to self settling. This afternoon I heard him wake after 45mins and i left him and he went back to sleep for just over an hour:) Yay! This has never happened before. Normally his naps are pretty short during the day.
He is definitely uncomfortable with his belly and randomly screams and I can tell he is in pain. I think it might be gas building up because he still hasn't pooed. Yesterday was fart day and today- nothing. poor little guy. Between his screaming moments there are lots of smiles and giggles. I have a feeling if i cut out dairy it might help. I don't eat a lot of it (1 yoghurt/day, some milk in a coffee and a small amount of cheese or low fat milk in cereal). I really don't want to cut it out but lots of the research I have done points to dairy. I might have to bite the bullet once my lasagna has been eaten(!) and have a go. I might give that chemist a call if he doesn't settle down.

Renae - posted on 01/03/2010

Ok yes again I think you are right. While some bf babies go a long time between poos if he is uncomfortable then that's not right. Have you tried giving him Coloxyl? It is a natural medicine that relieves constipation. I just had a look on the box and I cant see a minimum age. You get it from the chemist, just check with them that there is no minimum age. Apparently it is very gentle and ok to give every day.



I'm not sure starting on solids is the best thing but you can only try and see what happens. Only because I know my baby found solids much more difficult to digest than breastmilk (which kind of makes sense, breastmilk is the easiest and best stuff for their tummies). It was months before my baby could have solids without pain. I was also told by several paeds to give him solids at 4 months because it helps with reflux, but my baby's problem is not just reflux its also gut pain and solids made the pain worse. He wasn't good with solids until about 8.5 months and even then for the first month I had to give him Coloxyl every day because he would get blocked up and uncomfortable.



I know what you mean about not wanting to be reliant on Bauers stomach calm but you are only using it while he needs it, as soon as he grows out of this you will stop. And you know you only use it because it helps him. There is a medicine I think might help you, but you wont be able to get it there. It is made by a pharmacist in one of the northern suburbs of perth so that is the only place to get it. It doesn't even have a name, they just make it up when you ask for it and give it to you in a blank bottle. I know it sounds dodgy but all the child health nurses here know about it and recommend it for colic and any wind related pain. It really helped my baby in the first few months. I grilled the pharmacist about what it was and his explanation sounded sensible. The chemist is called Padbury Pharmacy their number is (08) 9401 7101 if you want to ask them about it. See if they will send it to you or give the ingredients to a local pharmacist to make for you or if not let me know and I could send it to you.



The more you tell me the more this does NOT sound like reflux. It sounds like abdominal pain. Silent reflux seems to be the latest "one size fits all" diagnosis for anything to do with babies and pain.



You mentioned being tired after 30-45min, until about 3mo most babies can stay awake for 1-1.5 hours before becoming tired, however when they first get up in the morning its only 30-45 min before they need a first nap. Between 3-6 months the amount of awake time increases to about 1.5-2 hours. Some 6mo can do 3 hours but its not very common. I think it might be possible that your baby's tummy pain is interferring with his sleep so maybe that is making him get tired more quickly - because he's not sleeping properly when he does sleep. That happened with my baby a lot. Do you know all about tired signs? Do some research on tired signs and pay close attention to them and put him to bed whenever he does them, even if it has only been a short time awake. I have been told that plenty of sleep helps their body develop which helps them get over the tummy pain.

Jennifer - posted on 01/02/2010

thanks Renae- Today is day 5 with no poo and he is uncomfortable and miserable. He slept through the night except for a feed at 3am and woke an hour later panicking because he rolled onto his belly and got stuck like a turtle(he can't roll back yet)! When he finally woke up this morning around 6:30am he was screaming and farting (normally he wakes with giggles and smiles).Sometimes he wakes at night because of his wind and I wonder if it is related to me eating dairy etc. As a last resort I may do 2 weeks without dairy to see how he is. Funny how so many things can affect a breastfed baby. I always assumed feeding was easy and natural and once he was born i could eat all the soft cheese and smoked salmon i wanted:) I will definitely continue to bf for at least 1 year. I am starting to give him small amounts of cooled, boiled water between feeds to see if it helps him poo. From the research i have done it is not abnormal for him to have so many days between poos but he is obviously uncomfortable (gets wind, arches back, screams, grunts and tried to push). It sucks to think I can't really do anything to help him and I don't want to bcome reliant on Bauers Stomach Calm (seems to help a bit). I am also in Australia but in Darwin so i am limited with my resources. It just seems abnormal to me that a baby is expected to go that long between poos when they are obviously not happy about it. I am starting him on solids at 4 months as advised by my paediatrician- hopefully this will help him poo and he will continue to be a happy little baby. He does seem to get grumpy after being awake for only 30-45 mins so not sure if it is overtired or tummy. I think I picked a bad week to cut back on Losec! I hope i can spot the difference between his 'poo-pain' and any possible reflux pain.

Renae - posted on 01/02/2010

Hi Jennifer, I agree with you. It sounds more like gut problems than reflux. But I want to give you a heads up about baby's with gut problems because I learnt it the hard way and was shocked for months that noone cared enough to do anything. I really really hope that your experience is better than mine was, but I just want to warn you incase you get the same crap I did.

But before I forget to say it, the less frequent pooing thing is ok, many breastfed babies stop pooing much around that age because breastmilk only has good stuff in it and their body is using it all, there is no waste to get rid of out of it unless it doesn't get used.

I dont know where you live so things might be different there, but in Australia, all the health services and doctor's do not expend resources on investigating abdominal pain in baby's unless the baby is dangerously underweight and doesn't gain weight on a feeding tube!!! Basically, I was told to deal with it and wait for him to grow out of it. Because most babies grow out of it, they dont see any point in doing anything about it. The other reason they dont do anything is because more than 50% of the time the tests all come back negative and the baby gets better before they figure it out.

Like I said I was shocked to learn this. At the time my baby who was exclusively breastfed because he cant suck on a bottle (another story) was feeding every 40 minutes, he was so very tired and I hadn't slept for more than 30min at a time total 2-3 hours a day for 10 weeks - and I get told to leave my baby in hospital on a feeding tube (which the food would still cause him pain so he would be awake all night crying by himself) and I should go home and sleep and that is all they can do. I eventually jumped up and down and they did a blood test and tested his poo for bacteria but that's it, that's when I was told that what is supposed to be one of the best children's hospitals in the world doesn't waste resources on baby's with abdominal pain.

So you need to decide how bad this is. Is it affecting his ability to sleep? Is it affecting your ability to sleep? Is it affecting his ability to play and laugh and be a normal baby? If like me it is adversly affecting him and you, then you need to find a GP who works mostly with kids who can track your baby's progress and keep an eye on him (I found that any old regular GP didn't have a clue, I had to find one that did his internship at a children's hospital and most of his patients are kids and babies). Then you need to get them to refer you to a paediatrician who specialises in gut related issues. I have also learnt that the people who really know about the gut are the Paediatric Immunologists and Paediatric Gastroentologists. If you dont get a good answer from the paed then these two are your next stop. I would also say see a lactation consultant to see if his pulling off has to do with your flow, they will be able to tell from watching him feed.

Best of luck.

PS dont let any of the doctors tell you that all baby's are fussy sometimes and all mums are sleep deprived and that you are exaggerating. You know if there is something wrong with your baby just like I did. There was a time when they nearly had me doubting myself because they didn't believe I could be sleeping so little and they thought that I was waking him up and making him feed every 40 minutes because no baby would do that on their own!!!!!! Its hard to convince a doctor you're not crazy! So they admitted us to hospital to observe what was happening and it wasn't until they saw it for themselves that they did some tests.

Again, I hope your story goes a lot better.

Jennifer - posted on 01/01/2010

Something was definitely wrong with him before and he was fussing at the breast and pulling off alot. I had a fast let down and he choked pretty much every feed until recently. Some of this behavior carried on even after he took Losec which is why i think he has gut problems and not bad reflux. You could see he had mild reflux but I thought most babies had it a bit?? He has always cried when he farts and poos and is now only pooing only every 3-4 days (he is exclusively b/f). I have this weird feeling some of his problems were related to his gut and digestion and not to reflux. Mainly because his symptoms are nowhere near as bad as so many others. I am cutting his dose in half this week and will see if there is a difference. it is so hard because you want them to be comfortable but also don't wantt o over medicate. The doc said his early symptoms sound like silent reflux but it is hard to diagnose. So many babies I have met have been diagnosed with reflux and it seems a bit weird. Not sure..... if he starts to get uncomfortable i guess I will have to keep him on it until he is better.

Renae - posted on 01/01/2010

I'm not sure it was right to medicate him in the first place.



My infant is on 15mg of Losec per day. His reflux and other abdominal pain caused him a feeding disorder. When he was the age of your baby he would only drink about 20ml at a time and so was always hungry and fed about every 30-45min. I was told that frequent feeding in small amounts is normal reflux behaviour. He also used to start drinking and then pull away screaming - more usual reflux behaviour.



My friends baby is on 20mg of Losec per day and her baby had to be force fed formula until she was big enough to just have solids and no milk. She refused to drink the milk because of the pain.



I believe that 10mg (2 x half pills) is a lot for a newborn (under 12 weeks), that is about the max dose for that age, the sort of dose my friends baby was on and she is one of the worst cases you can get.



Our babies still dont eat normally even with the Losec but it helps. My 10mo still needs to be fed 2-3 times at night because he cant eat and drink enough during the day.



If he does have silent reflux, you should have noticed a big improvement in his feeding and general happiness about 5 days after he went on Losec - likewise if you take him off you should see a massive decline. They dont usually grow out of reflux so young, its not like colic that usually lasts until 12-14 weeks old. They grow out of reflux between 6-18 months, sometimes longer.



I recently tried reducing my baby's Losec to 5mg per day for a few days when he was 9.5 months old and by the 3rd day he was refusing to eat or drink and very grizzly, so I put his dose straight back up. Unfortunately the only way to find out if they still need it is to try them without it. I will now keep him on it and try again somewhere between 12-14 months. If you try him without Losec remember that it builds up in their system which is why you have to try for a few days and dont see any difference until the 3rd or 4th day and also why it takes 5-7 days to work when they first start taking it. Do you think the Losec helped his fussy feeding?



I think you need a second opinion from another paed. I would ask your GP for a referral to someone else. Doctors dont always know what they are doing unfortunately. I have seen lots of doctors with my baby and get different answers from all of them. I have found it depends how much experience the doctor has in feeding disorders. It wasn't until I went to paed number 5 who deals a lot with reflux and feeding issues that we figured out what was wrong with him.

Brandi - posted on 01/01/2010

Do you trust your pediatrician?? If so, then do as she has instructed you. You probably don't want to take him off the meds too soon or too quickly. If you do not trust your pediatrician, then get a second opinion, but DO NOT take him off the meds on your own. make sure you do that only under a pediatrician's supervision, just in case something should go wrong (I am not familiar with this particular drug, but with most drugs, you do not want to just stop taking them, it can cause different types of problems). Good luck. I hope your little one is feeling better soon. :-))

Renae - posted on 01/01/2010

I'm not sure it was right to medicate him in the first place.



My infant is on 15mg of Losec per day. His reflux and other abdominal pain caused him a feeding disorder. When he was the age of your baby he would only drink about 20ml at a time and so was always hungry and fed about every 30-45min. I was told that frequent feeding in small amounts is normal reflux behaviour. He also used to start drinking and then pull away screaming - more usual reflux behaviour.



My friends baby is on 20mg of Losec per day and her baby had to be force fed formula until she was big enough to just have solids and no milk. She refused to drink the milk because of the pain.



I believe that 10mg (2 x half pills) is a lot for a newborn (under 12 weeks), that is about the max dose for that age, the sort of dose my friends baby was on and she is one of the worst cases you can get.



Our babies still dont eat normally even with the Losec but it helps. My 10mo still needs to be fed 2-3 times at night because he cant eat and drink enough during the day.



If he does have silent reflux, you should have noticed a big improvement in his feeding and general happiness about 5 days after he went on Losec - likewise if you take him off you should see a massive decline. They dont usually grow out of reflux so young, its not like colic that usually lasts until 12-14 weeks old. They grow out of reflux between 6-18 months, sometimes longer.



I recently tried reducing my baby's Losec to 5mg per day for a few days when he was 9.5 months old and by the 3rd day he was refusing to eat or drink and very grizzly, so I put his dose straight back up. Unfortunately the only way to find out if they still need it is to try them without it. I will now keep him on it and try again somewhere between 12-14 months. If you try him without Losec remember that it builds up in their system which is why you have to try for a few days and dont see any difference until the 3rd or 4th day and also why it takes 5-7 days to work when they first start taking it. Do you think the Losec helped his fussy feeding?



I think you need a second opinion from another paed. I would ask your GP for a referral to someone else. Doctors dont always know what they are doing unfortunately. I have seen lots of doctors with my baby and get different answers from all of them. I have found it depends how much experience the doctor has in feeding disorders. It wasn't until I went to paed number 5 who deals a lot with reflux and feeding issues that we figured out what was wrong with him.