Crying=a baby not tired

Nicole - posted on 07/26/2010

I'm sure they do Brenda.

Plus, I think people "troll" certain groups, communities, message boards, etc. just to create controversy or something.

On another note: Banning Nestle can be overwhelming at times. They have their hands in everything!!! You even have to watch out when buying something as simple as bottled water. Grrrrrr!

Minnie - posted on 07/22/2010

I believe it, Brenda.

Brenda - posted on 07/22/2010

Just weird for that to happen, we're kinda a specific group here....

AFA the breastfeeding moms group, I've seen Nestle trolls in the anti-nestle groups before, people probably paid by Nestle. I don't wonder if formula companies don't "plant" people in breastfeeding communities to try to promote formula? Medela (who is a who violator, btw) has a program where it has moms tell them when they promote Medela on message boards and blogs....makes you wonder doesn't it?

Katherine - posted on 07/21/2010

She hasn't posted in almost three days.....maybe she decided the group wasn't for her.

Geralyn - posted on 07/21/2010

Come to think of it, Chelsea, who was the admin for the Breastfeeding Moms group, had the same concerns that the BF'ing community was being "morphed" (my word) by moms that didn't believe in breastfeeding. She tried to put her foot down, because moms looking to support moms wanting to breastfeed and to share information with other breastfeeding moms were the purposes of the group. The moms who didn't believe in breastfeeding (a completely different issue whether they did it or not, as some moms can't) criticized her to no end. My thought was why join a breastfeeding moms group if you don't believe in breastfeeding? An analogy of sorts..... I would like to keep the integrity of our group.

Geralyn - posted on 07/21/2010

As a moderator, it is important for me to weigh in here. We welcome moms and appreciate different approaches to the fundamentals of AP. This forum is not to debate the fundamentals of AP. Co-sleeping is not simply throwing your baby into bed with you. There are many moms who sleep with their children, but there is a smaller subset of moms who co-sleep as part of an overall parent style or philosophy. It is this smaller subset of moms who are instrumental in supporting each other, sharing ideas and experiences, and bringing issues to each other's attention. We do not debate CIO versus the AP approach, for example, because this community was created with a vision of supporting moms who believe in AP. With that said, not every mom has to implement every aspect of AP - as it is child-driven (for example, there may be a child who prefers not to co-sleep, then that child's wishes are followed), but its our belief system that brings us together. If a member does not believe in AP, then it really raises a question as to why a member felt that this was an appropriate group for her.

Brenda - posted on 07/21/2010

Considering all this person's posts are related to not being an AP mom, I'm not sure what's up. No cosleeping, CIO, independence training.... *shrugs*

Cry it Out is never a means to an end. Period. It breeds apathy and detachment later in life.

Jessica - posted on 07/20/2010

Usually CJ goes down to sleep with his bottle, rocking in my arms and a lullabye....but if he is over tired he will fuss and cry a little.

Katherine - posted on 07/20/2010

@Nikki, that's the best way is to follow their cues. Screw routine!!! I don't believe in it lol.

Nicole - posted on 07/20/2010

Yeah, I'm with Lisa... Hmmmm.... I just read Amy's post on another post in this community and that was my thought then, but I thought I just misread the post. I guess I might be somewhat confused???

Traci - posted on 07/19/2010

I'm with Lisa....

Minnie - posted on 07/19/2010

I'm confused, Amy. You don't cosleep and you think that CIO is valid....to force them to sleep independently...where is the attachment?

This community is attachment parenting/cosleeping moms...

Katherine - posted on 07/19/2010

Letting a baby cry like that equates to nails on a chalkboard to me. I'm just one of those people that cannot handle it. It wrenches my heart.

Schmoopy - posted on 07/19/2010

Not everyone is comfortable sleeping in the same bed with their baby. I'm an insomniac, so while co-sleeping sounds like a perfectly lovely idea, it would be a nightmare for me.



I hate to be the lone voice here, but CIO isn't meant to be used every single day. It's a method that is used to help babies learn to sleep independently and it usually takes 3-4 nights before they get it. So while you're right in thinking that it's gut wrenching to listen to your baby CIO, it's very temporary and it's a means to an very valid end.

Nikki - posted on 07/04/2010

Ayden will only cry if I put him down and he can't fall asleep, I dont put him down til he rubs his eyes and I can see he is tired, but if he isnt he will stand up and babble and laugh and put his arms up. When he is overtired he cries his little eyes out, so in both instances I am picking him up and out of bed. But I have never followed a set time for bedtime, we have a routine and i liet him run around til he tires out and only then do i put him down (never later then 1030 and usually no earlier then 830 I just follow his cues

Sylvia - posted on 07/01/2010

It does depend on the baby. Mine, for example, had a very narrow ready-to-go-to-sleep window; if you missed it, she would get past "sleepy" to "total meltdown" very fast :P But, yeah, I can never fathom how people can handle the cognitive dissonance of using a method that requires them to listen to their baby or toddler howl for hours every day. I had a friend when DD was a baby who had a little boy almost the same age, and she used to put him in his crib for two hours at the same time every afternoon "to have a nap", but never worried about whether he was actually sleeping or not: he might cry for two hours, or sit in there playing for two hours, or sleep for two hours, or whatever, but no matter what he was doing, he was going to stay in there for those two hours and that was that. (I doubt she could have pulled this off if her DS hadn't been the calmest, most laid-back baby EVER. He didn't crawl till 13 months, didn't walk till 18 months -- much easier to keep a non-mobile baby confined.) We'd been friends off and on since high school, but whenever she shared anything about her parenting with me, the friendship got a little more strained ... :P

I'm with April -- if what you're doing is not working, and is making people unhappy, TRY SOMETHING ELSE. Apart from Evil Ezzo, who is really in a class by himself, I don't think anyone really advocates letting a baby cry alone for hours at a time; even the much-maligned Ferber is, if you actually read his book on sleep with an open mind, much more moderate than most people think. (I never used any of his techniques -- I didn't feel my DD had a sleep problem -- but he is very firm that "controlled crying" should never be used with young babies, admits that co-sleeping is not such a terrible thing after all, etc. He absolutely does not say that you should close the nursery door, stride briskly away, and not come back until morning.) But there's this terrible social pressure on new parents -- people are forever asking you "Does s/he sleep through the night yet?" "Is s/he a good sleeper?" "Is s/he a good baby?" (I used to answer this one with a bright smile and a "Oh, she's very good at being a baby!") -- and so many of us have spent so little time around *actual babies* that we have very little understanding of what the range of normal actually is.

*Now* my DD has a set bedtime (most nights), and we send her to bed then. But she's almost 8. And we still check on her periodically until she's asleep, and she can get up and ask for a drink of water, come snuggle in with us if she's feeling lonely in the night, etc. A baby can't do any of those things; she can only communicate that she needs something by crying loudly enough to wake someone up. It's NOT THE SAME, and I think so many new parents' lives would be so much easier, so much less full of guilt and shame and feelings of inadequacy, if everyone just admitted a few obvious things:

1. Babies are helpless and need a lot of attention and care. A LOT. At night as well as in the daytime. You are not a bad parent if this exhausts you; you are not a bad parent if your baby doesn't sleep through. You should be able to admit that you're exhausted and ask for help without being judged for "spoiling" your baby.

2. The baby stage is very, very short. You will not look back in 20 years' time and say "Gosh, I wish I'd been stricter about letting DD/DS cry it out at bedtime!"

3. Babies are not evil, Machiavellian manipulators. Crying is how they communicate that there is something wrong. It's up to you to learn how to interpret what your baby is telling you in the brief months before s/he starts learning to express needs more clearly.

4. Babies have physical needs (feed me! change my diaper! remove that diaper pin that's sticking me! help me get rid of this burp!). But they also have emotional and psychological needs, and these are important too! Holding your baby is a *good* thing, not something to be avoided as much as possible.

Brenda - posted on 07/01/2010

Exactly. The only time this boy cries is if I'm holding him trying to settle him down. It is so much easier if you don't let them cry, I don't understand why so many people think it is right. Sickening to me.

Katherine - posted on 06/30/2010

I agree, really bad with reading their infants/toddlers. I know when mine is over-tired, but I still don't let her cry!!! I take her out and do an activity with her. THEN I try again easy breezy :)

Brenda - posted on 06/30/2010

There are times, yeah, when Nick cries when he's tired, but I know the difference. He gives me cues. He bites my shoulder, he tries to lay down in my arms, indicating he wants to lay on the bed. Most parents, though are really bad at communication with their infants.

Geralyn - posted on 06/30/2010

That is probably the case, especially with a "schedule." But I could also see that even a tired baby could be so distraught with being left alone in the nursery, wanting mommy, and not being able to give in to his exhaustion thereby crying for long periods of time.... Very sad...

Brenda - posted on 06/30/2010

But see they don't CARE if the baby is tired or not. Baby goes to bed at 8 PM. Don't care if baby isn't ready for sleep until 12 midnight. 8 PM is when baby goes to bed, and that's all there is to it. If baby doesn't go to bed at 8 pm in their little cage in a dark room, mommy and daddy don't get their "alone" time which they can't live without. Because if baby isn't in bed at 8, it isn't conveient, and after all, all conveince parents are worried about is keeping baby rearing easy on them. Because it is a baby, something that is going to do what they say, when they say it. without regard for it's wants/needs/ or anything else.

April - posted on 06/30/2010

sometimes fussiness does mean tired. my son progresses from fussy to full out meltdown if i don't start nursing him to sleep in the beginning when he's just fussy.

HOWEVER....i know exactly what you're talking about. i've always believed that if a "technique" isn't working right away, it's the wrong method. (but i don't believe in CIO at all..ever. i'm talking about any other technique, provided it is gentle)