Breast milk and formula

Nicole - posted on 02/09/2009

Quoting Melissa:

I have a question to add to the discussion. My daughter starts screaming and spitting out my breast once it runs out and there isn't any more so I have to do formula until she gets full. I can't just keep letting her suck because she starts pulling back and it hurts - BAD! Any tips? I want to get away from the supplementing formula that I had to start when I got really sick. She is only 2 months so I'm panicking my supply will completely go away way too soon. Thoughts?
Also, I have a hard time finding time to pump by the time I get her the formula then I pump it is almost time to feed again and I haven't recovered enough milk yet.
I live overseas and am waiting for my Fenugreek to come in the mail, but it's not here yet. I tried oats and it worked GREAT for one day then now I seem immune.
Any help appreciated.

Pulling back on the breast is usually a sign that the let-down has stopped and the baby is trying to get it started again (especially since she is supplemented, she is used to the instant gratification from the bottle).  If this occurs after she has nursed on that side for some time, you can try the other side.  If it's not after being latched on for more than a few seconds or she starts pulling away from the other side as soon as you put her on, use warm compresses or gently squeeze the breast to help let-down. 

This may also be a sign that your milk supply is somewhat low, but I don't want you to get discouraged, it can be fixed.  My best tip for you, since you are supplementing and you are finding it hard to pump, is to use a lactation aide.  That sounds like a very fancy name, but you can make one yourself (or order one)...  To make one on your own, you would need to purchase, order, or beg the hospital you delivered in for a small tube, like the ones that are used to tube feed premature babies.  Once you have that, use any old bottle with a nipple and cut the very tip of the bottle nipple off (big enough to fit the tube), put the tube down through the prepared formula bottle nipple, and then latch your daughter to your breast.  Once she is at the breast gently slide the tube in her mouth and as she sucks at the breast you should see the formula fill the tube and go into her mouth.  It sounds a little complicated, but you are accomplishing several things at once:  she is getting the instant gratification from the tube and will not fight so much, she also gets the formula to maintain her needs (if your supply is low) and your breasts are also getting the stimulation they need to start producing more.  Not to mention you don't have to find time to pump.

I hope this helps.  Good luck!  Feel free to ask more questions if you need it.

Barbara-Anne - posted on 02/09/2009

are you sure you don't have enough milk?  Or is it a growth spurt? If you top up with formula your supply won't keep up and then you won't be able to make enough.  It's a vicious circle.  When they nurse more they're telling your body to make more milk.  My little guy breastfed 24/7 for weeks at a time at some points...then he would back off.  If you have proper weight gain and enough wet diapers formula is not the answer.  Hang in there - you're doing the best and right thing for your baby.  Good luck.

Pamela - posted on 02/09/2009

I have no problem with it at all.

I didnt produce enough milk for my baby since he was born (he was huge and very hungry) and the hospital suggested a "top up" bottle which I did. He's 3 months old now and I still nurse him and then give him a bottle and he seems perfectly content. He actually sleeps 5 hours at a time. My paediatrician doesn't have any complaints either, aslong as the baby is getting breast milk as well to build up his immune system. ;-)

Melissa - posted on 02/09/2009

I have a question to add to the discussion. My daughter starts screaming and spitting out my breast once it runs out and there isn't any more so I have to do formula until she gets full. I can't just keep letting her suck because she starts pulling back and it hurts - BAD! Any tips? I want to get away from the supplementing formula that I had to start when I got really sick. She is only 2 months so I'm panicking my supply will completely go away way too soon. Thoughts?

Also, I have a hard time finding time to pump by the time I get her the formula then I pump it is almost time to feed again and I haven't recovered enough milk yet.

I live overseas and am waiting for my Fenugreek to come in the mail, but it's not here yet. I tried oats and it worked GREAT for one day then now I seem immune.

Any help appreciated.

Nicole - posted on 02/06/2009

Quoting Alexandra:

Quoting Nicole:

How old is your daughter? How much are you pumping? How aften is your daughter nursing with you at home? How is your daughters weight gain? I ask these questions becasue people who are more educated in formula feeding and not breastfeeding tend to think that breastmilk is not enough. I hate to say this... actually I don't hate to say this... but some people just want to "put a bottle in the baby's mouth" or want to top up on formula or mix with formula because they want the baby to sleep longer. I'm not saying that you have a bad day care person, but maybe an uneducated one.

If her weight gain is good, she is getting enough. Try to avoid the formula if you can. Going from strictly breastfeeding to supplementing can sometimes cause constipation in your little one. Breast is best! A mother convincing herself or someone else convincing her that her milksupply is low is SO common and the truth of the matter is, it is VERY rare that a woman will not make enough milk! Your breast are a "supply and demand system", you (well really your baby) demands it and your breasts will supply it! She may also be going through a growth spurt. If this is the case you will want to nurse more often when you and baby are together and add an extra pumping session in, if you can, until the cluster feeding calms down. I hope this helps. Keep up the good work Mommy!

Thanks for your thoughts and concerns... My daughter is almost 4 months and I am pumping like a champion.  I am a working mom who teaches first grade.  I pump in the the morning then on the way to work... then at lunch then on the way home, the twice before bed that is the only times I can phycially and mentally pump.  My supply is not low this week because my daughter Kendall and I have both been sick but there are times when I am just making it barely. 

I did go to a breast feeding support group and I have increased my supply and NO WAY JOSE to I want my baby to be full SO she can sleep.  I don't mind getting up in the middle of the night to nurse her.  That is my favorite time of nursing because the house is quiet and we nurse in my flannel sheet bed!  ITs so cozy!  I LOVE IT!  I was just asking to mix formula and breast milk because she was increasing her oz's and I was still only getting the bare minimum.  OH well.  Thanks for you help!

I wasn't implying that YOU don't like to nurse, I was under the impression that all of your concerns about your milk supply were based on the thoughts and comments of your day care person.  I am so glad that you love to nurse your baby when you guys are together, that will always help your milk supply.  I was just worried that someone else was making you second guess your breastfeeding capability.  And, WOW, congrats on how well you pump!!!

Anyway, I asked the questions I did, to find out why you felt your supply was low (i.e.  you only pump x amount of oz. per session, baby is seeming still hungry after feedings, your daughter is losing weight/not gaining weight, etc.).  The reason I ask these questions is because I don't recommend supplementing with formula and I try to help mom's work around the thought, if it is possible.  But, obviously, that was not what you were asking so...  yes, you can mix formula with breastmilk.  There are just alot of negatives by doing so and I was hoping to help you avoid those pitfalls and stick to just breastfeeding, but I apparently overstepped my bounds and you let me know, so I apologize. 

Christine - posted on 02/06/2009

I use to breastfeed only until i realized he was still hungry so now I give him formula and when I see he's getting fussy and sleepy I give him the breast and it works and i only breastfeed at night on demand, it works for me. I agree with everyone though that the breast milk is the best way to go but you might not have enough milk to satisfy your little one. Good luck!!!!

Aphie - posted on 02/05/2009

Alexandra, there are also some things you can add to your diet to encourage your milk supply; oats, fenugreek and brewer's yeast are all fabulous galactogogues.
There's a bit of info here: http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/milksuppl...

Shawna - posted on 02/05/2009

I totally aggree with Nicole. Just nurse more often to make more milk.

Marilee - posted on 02/05/2009

My daughter is also almost 4 months, she eats 5 oz per feeding how much does your daugter eat? I have the same issue some days, when i pump while at work i get a little less than what she eats so i do one extra pumping before i go to bed or in the am and that does it. But her dr. did say i can add an extra ounce to her bottle of formula if i need to..

Aphie - posted on 02/05/2009

Babies often go through a growth spurt at four months and want to nurse round the clock. I know some days it felt like my lil guy was attached to me 24/7.
She will calm down again in a bit, but the point of your daughter constantly nursing is to increase your supply as well.
If you supplement now, it could mean that your milk supply will continue to not be enough and you may find that you cannot breastfeed at all after the next growth spurt, around 6 months, because her need versus your supply is just too big a disparity.

It's really hard to make these choices and they're forced on you when you're a working mum, but please keep it in mind if you'd like to continue breastfeeding. You may need to try to increase your pumping sessions when you're away from your daughter, or have "Nursing Holidays" in the evenings and weekends, for a little while, to increase your supply (basically, bub IS attached almost permanently and everything else just has to wait).

Best of luck!

Angela - posted on 02/05/2009

Quoting Alexandra:

Thanks for your thoughts... I am not keeping up with my daughters appatite.  My day care person suggested that I mix breast milk and formula in the same bottle what are your thoughts there?

 

I do exactly this!  I was not pumping enough and despite all the helpful tips I got on this site I was just not pumping enough after baby turned 6 months to keep up with daycare.  I got so worried and stressed it effected production even more.  Finally I decided to mix.  When I asked my daycare about they were like "oh we have had lots of moms do that."  We have been doing it for 3 weeks and all is well.  He takes it fine and I feel relieved and am actually starting to pump better again.  He feeds fine at home and i only work a few days a week so breast milk is still a main staple.  I just look at it as another type of baby food.  It was hard at first b/c of all the guilt I felt about supplementing because of all the "breast milk is best"  propaganda.  It IS best but you are not bad if you supplement especially since you make it this far.  For me supplementing is the only I can keep breastfeeding, which I love to do.

Alexandra - posted on 02/05/2009

Quoting Nicole:

How old is your daughter? How much are you pumping? How aften is your daughter nursing with you at home? How is your daughters weight gain? I ask these questions becasue people who are more educated in formula feeding and not breastfeeding tend to think that breastmilk is not enough. I hate to say this... actually I don't hate to say this... but some people just want to "put a bottle in the baby's mouth" or want to top up on formula or mix with formula because they want the baby to sleep longer. I'm not saying that you have a bad day care person, but maybe an uneducated one.

If her weight gain is good, she is getting enough. Try to avoid the formula if you can. Going from strictly breastfeeding to supplementing can sometimes cause constipation in your little one. Breast is best! A mother convincing herself or someone else convincing her that her milksupply is low is SO common and the truth of the matter is, it is VERY rare that a woman will not make enough milk! Your breast are a "supply and demand system", you (well really your baby) demands it and your breasts will supply it! She may also be going through a growth spurt. If this is the case you will want to nurse more often when you and baby are together and add an extra pumping session in, if you can, until the cluster feeding calms down. I hope this helps. Keep up the good work Mommy!

Thanks for your thoughts and concerns... My daughter is almost 4 months and I am pumping like a champion.  I am a working mom who teaches first grade.  I pump in the the morning then on the way to work... then at lunch then on the way home, the twice before bed that is the only times I can phycially and mentally pump.  My supply is not low this week because my daughter Kendall and I have both been sick but there are times when I am just making it barely. 

I did go to a breast feeding support group and I have increased my supply and NO WAY JOSE to I want my baby to be full SO she can sleep.  I don't mind getting up in the middle of the night to nurse her.  That is my favorite time of nursing because the house is quiet and we nurse in my flannel sheet bed!  ITs so cozy!  I LOVE IT!  I was just asking to mix formula and breast milk because she was increasing her oz's and I was still only getting the bare minimum.  OH well.  Thanks for you help!

Sara - posted on 02/02/2009

Because I got very sick very soon after my baby was born, and I had thrush and mastitis, I have had trouble with supply. She always seems to get enough when nursing, but the pumping sessions do not generate enough to satisfy my hungry girl! I asked my pediatrician about supplementing with formula, and he said it was fine to supplement, and that I could mix it right in with the breastmilk; the only real downside would be if she didn't want to finish the bottle, breast milk would be wasted, too. (We all know how that feels, I'm sure!)

Things don't always work out the way you plan. I was sure I'd never need formula, and boy did I cry when the pain was so bad and nothing was coming out and I was bleeding - I realized I had no choice but to use some formula - I was so pathetic running around the house with a crying hungry baby that I felt I was failing desperately searching for the formula sample I had gotten in the mail! I couldn't even pump yet - we were waiting to purchase a pump until right before I went back to work...

I guess I'm trying to say, sometimes you just don't get enough milk. Sometimes I have enough pumped for a bottle, but sometimes I don't. Those times, her daytime caregivers mix formula because we have learned that she gets very mad when she gets a taste of "the good stuff" and then is asked to finish off with formula. It's the only way. I have come to terms with supplementing, and we do what we have to do.

I hope that helps. Sorry if it's disjointed - I should have gone to bed 2 hours ago, but I got sucked in by these message boards!

User - posted on 02/02/2009

And I needed to reiterate what had been said....

too many people use formula as the basis for their "feeding the baby" information, and it's different for breast.

Some babies never take more than 4oz at a sitting... but the content of that 4 oz changes as the baby grows. Someone that is giving breastmilk in a bottle may come to the conclusion that they need more.. when that might not be true. Too many breasstfeeding mama's quit cause they were told to supplement with formula, adn then their supply will decrease and they will lose their milk and switch all the way to formula.

Don't do it if you don't have to! Talk to a lactation consultant

User - posted on 02/02/2009

OH! totally go to a lactation consultant... many hospitals have them for free. If it's just a matter of increasing your supply, then that is possible.

I think 2 capsules of Fenugreek 3 times a day.... increasing until you smell like maple syrup... is the usual first step to increasing milk supply.

Not to mention the increasing your pumping durations, and sittings.

Then there's even a prescription that OB's can prescribe to help (Reglan?)

Totally get the production up and you won't need to supplement.

Nicole - posted on 02/02/2009

How old is your daughter? How much are you pumping? How aften is your daughter nursing with you at home? How is your daughters weight gain? I ask these questions becasue people who are more educated in formula feeding and not breastfeeding tend to think that breastmilk is not enough. I hate to say this... actually I don't hate to say this... but some people just want to "put a bottle in the baby's mouth" or want to top up on formula or mix with formula because they want the baby to sleep longer. I'm not saying that you have a bad day care person, but maybe an uneducated one.



If her weight gain is good, she is getting enough. Try to avoid the formula if you can. Going from strictly breastfeeding to supplementing can sometimes cause constipation in your little one. Breast is best! A mother convincing herself or someone else convincing her that her milksupply is low is SO common and the truth of the matter is, it is VERY rare that a woman will not make enough milk! Your breast are a "supply and demand system", you (well really your baby) demands it and your breasts will supply it! She may also be going through a growth spurt. If this is the case you will want to nurse more often when you and baby are together and add an extra pumping session in, if you can, until the cluster feeding calms down. I hope this helps. Keep up the good work Mommy!

Allie - posted on 02/02/2009

how old is your wee girl.  i have never heard of mixing in the same bottle. only ever heard of topping up after a breast fed. have you tried to build up your milk supply.

Alexandra - posted on 02/02/2009

Thanks for your thoughts... I am not keeping up with my daughters appatite.  My day care person suggested that I mix breast milk and formula in the same bottle what are your thoughts there?

Mallory - posted on 02/01/2009

I don't agree with it. Breast milk is far more superior to formula and it's free!

Susan - posted on 02/01/2009

I think you should ask your pediatrician what he/she recommends for mixing.  I asked about it in case I need to supplement...I can't always pump what my son eats so it's hard to keep up with him.  My pediatrician said it's okay to mix...and to do so in whatever way works best for me.  By either supplementing a formula bottle during the day or mixing them in one bottle.  It all depends on why you need to mix. 

Becky - posted on 02/01/2009

I have had problems with not enough breast milk.  I always nurse first and then top her up with formula after she is done nursing (if she is still hungry and I am out of milk).

Cynthia - posted on 02/01/2009

I feel if you have the breast milk why mix it. Breast milk is best!

User - posted on 02/01/2009

well, breast is best.. but if you must do formula I can see that being an ok way to do it. Just make sure the formula is mixed according to the directions.... you don't want to dilute it on accident.