breastfed babies "want mom" more

Diana - posted on 04/29/2009

You should check out the book "The No-Cry Sleep Solution". I'm in the middle of the process with our 12 month old. He's had a lot of ear infections along with teething to set us back but I'm seeing improvements. She has a group on facebook too. The author is Elizabeth Pantley and it's a very nurturing approach.

Nicole - posted on 04/29/2009

This is a personality or a medical thing, not a breastfeeding thing. I was a very colicky baby and let my parents sleep VERY little and I was formula-fed!!! Between my 3 babies, all breastfed, each one was very different in their sleeping habits. Especially my middle child!!! He seemed to be NEVER happy for the first 6 months of his life! And I nursed him at least 4 times within an 8 hour period at night (sometimes more)! I think I slept about 3-4 hours a night for 6 months! While my third could sleep like 8 hours without having to nurse once.



Sometimes medical problems (reflux, gas, constipation, etc.) can be the reason for a "fussy" or "needy" baby.



Every baby is different... breastfed or not.

Felecia - posted on 04/28/2009

OH and 95% of the time Me and my daughter sleep together...

Felecia - posted on 04/28/2009

Personally my daughter is now 5 months and 2 weeks and she still may only sleep 4-5 hours a night than want "MA" as she yells lol But I think it is a normal thing for her because she always wants me and really only me.. She will be in some ones arms and scream "ma" so Yes!!! I do think she gets up at night to make sure I am still right next to her..If I am she will go right back to sleep with out feeding if I am not there she has to be feed for a minute or two.. Its a comfort issue with her...

Sunny - posted on 04/28/2009

Thank you Chelsea for your reply. I really appreciate the time you took to write all that down! What you do with your daughter is pretty much what I do with my son in terms of routine except that I give him dinner earlier. It's a good point about high-needs babies needing more physical contact. My son also likes being held a lot during the day- I'm going to see if holding him more results in a better sleep for him. I also think it is good advice about changing our attitudes and expectations of our infants. They aren't going to be like the majority of other babies, so as you say 'parent what you're given'- well said!! I suppose the way society pushes the idea that babies are supposed to sleep through the night from 3 months, be contented to play on their own etc makes us believe that there is something wrong with our babies if they aren't doing this, or we've done something wrong on our part. Whilst there is always room for improvement, I think it's about accepting certain things about our kids then moving on and not stressing so much about it. And I think Carolyn's point is a good one also about our focus on 'sleeping through'. I guess I'm torn a little- at the sleep school, it was emphasized how important sleep is for little ones to grow and develop and the ability to self settle, but at the same time if it's not always working what do you do? Let them cry and learn to self settle (I personally don't see harm in a bit of crying to settle down) or give them what they want (ie. breastfeed)??

Wendy - posted on 04/28/2009

We have to keep in mind out health care system has been flooded with myths which evolve durring the early 1900's when Dr's and Psychiatrists were spitting out "parenting advice" which was WORNG and completely unsupported by facts.



A full night of sleep for a baby is 5 hrs.



Many children (Even adults) don't sleep through the night.



Breastfeeding is far more than just nutrition. When you nurse you help to meet your child's physical, emotional and physiological needs too. Waking to nurse for 5 min is just part of meeting her emotional, physical, and physiological needs =-)



Breast Milk digests fast so they do get hungry sooner. However they are born with under developed digestive systems, there for BM is designed to help with this fact in MANY ways (including factors which help the digestive system mature).





All babies and children NEED something to be attached too. Historically that is the mother. However, if their needs are not being met they will grow an attachment to an object (such as a blanket or stuffed animal). I only dub it a "lovie" or an attachment if they MUST have it to sleep, calm down, etc. I (personally rather have my DD attached to me and not have to forget a blanket!



According to the APA, WHO solids are only experimental durring the first year, no need to rush it. Additionally, adding solids to a babies diet (before they are ready) can result in allergies and/or digestive discomfort.



Personally, I'm a VERY strong believer in following a child's lead. My DD (now 23 months) still nurse on demand (2-10 times a day and 0-5 times a night). Occasionally I have to leave her at the sitter, because she knows I will return, she waves goodbye and runs off to play. It is wonderful, that there is NO drama when I do have to be away form her.



I hope I answered your question, now I just feel like I'm rambling =-)

Carolyn - posted on 04/28/2009

I'm not being critical, but I find it curious how our culture is so focused on having our babies sleep alone, learn good "sleep skills", and obsess about how long we can leave them to sleep though the night. Most adults in most cultures (although not all) choose to have sleep partners in some form. Yet we focus so much time and energy in teaching our very young children to sleep alone. Has anyone considered the culture reasons behind that? Sleeping, like breastfeeding habits, is a cultural practice fulfilling a biological need.

Just something to think about. :)

Tara - posted on 04/28/2009

Breastmilk is an extremely easy to digest form of food, which is why breastfed babies tend to wake more often for food than formula fed babies. But, every baby is different, my son started to sleep 6-8 hours/night at 3 months old, my daughter on the other hand is now 8 1/2 months old & still waking up 3-4 times/night, but only 1--2 of those times is for food. Just a suggestion though on the feedings in the night, if you continue to feed her in the middle of the night just because she's woken up, she may start to see this as a routine, which could get hard to break as she gets older. She needs to be able to soothe herself back to sleep, so if she's awake, but not crying, you might want to consider letting her try to go back to sleep on her own. We started to let our son sleep in our bed when he turned a year old (for some reason he wouldn't sleep through the night anymore & I was pregnant again & too tired to try & stay in his room with him while he soothed himself back to sleep.) Now we have a 2 year old that can't fall asleep in his own bed & wakes up in the night & comes into our room to sleep again.

Amanda - posted on 04/27/2009

my son is 7 weeks old and is breastfed. He used to wake up quite frequently but is now sleeping in longer stretches. I think they wake up more often because breastmilk is digested easier and faster. It has gotten better for me. I have also been reading the book "The Baby Whisperer" and it has some great tips from an English baby nanny. Check it out!

Sherree - posted on 04/27/2009

Chelsea, first of all thank you for such a detailed post!

You guys are me realize my daughter probably is fairly high needs, but also thankful that she is not quite as needy as some can be, lol! I'm feeling a fair bit of relief right now to know there are others out there like my daughter and that there is a "term" for this.

I have often wondered myself about this, Chelsea: "I found a direct relationship with teh amount I wore my daughter and how easy it was to put her to sleep. If she was in the front pack 2-3 hours or more in the day she would go to sleep the easiest. Infants that are high-need need more contact daily and if that is not met in daylight hours they will seek to have the need met at night."

I think that might make a lot of sense in my situation as well. I know that for sure if she has a rough time getting to sleep (If I let her cry too long and she gets mad) then I will be in for a rough night the entire night. Whereas nights when she falls asleep nicely, or even if she doesn't, but I quickly intervene to nurse her back to sleep again after the first failed attempt, then I usually can expect a decent night's sleep. And she definitely seems to recognize the routine. Dad does bath with her shortly after 8pm, I dress her, then we turn down the lights in her room and nurse her to grogginess. I have found I have to make sure not to hold her too long. When she was younger, I would wait until she was fast asleep to put her down, but now (somewhere around 5 1/2 months), I found that if I do that, she will wake up when I try to put her down and wake up very mad. It is much better for me to hold her no longer than 5 minutes when I recognize that she is entering sleep. Sometimes I even talk to her quietly "mommy's going to put you in your crib now". Then I put her down and most of the time she settles. Sometimes she doesn't though - it's like she wants to, but she's not groggy enough and can't settle and she gets scared and upset. So that's where I haven't known what to do... let her cry and try to settle? pick her up quickly and nurse again? I have tried both with some success and also some failure on the technique of letting her cry. Sometimes she's been mostly groggy so the cries lessen quickly and she falls asleep. But often she has worked herself up and then I end up feeling bad, she feels mad and we're in for a rougher 2nd try because she's now more tired and irritable and maybe is also mad at me.

Chelsea - posted on 04/27/2009

Sunny,
This is going to be a long post!
My daughter has been high-need from the time she was born. She has always been extremely attached to me even as a newborn. She never slept in her bassinet and would only let someone else hold her for 10 minutes tops from birth. She would not sit in a bouncy seat, swing etc. for more than 5 minutes and very rarely. Any need not met within 1 minute would escalate into extreme hysteria. At this young age I wore her ALL THE TIME in a baby bjorn front pack. I also fed her often and didn't pass her off often (grandma sometimes etc.). I loved her and parented her as she was. It was tough but what I really found was that I needed to change my attitude. I have worked with children for a long time in two seperate daycares and as a nanny. Having an infant that was so far outside the norm. challenged me and my abilities but it was my attitude that needing changing not my daughters behaviors. I took the motto "parent what you were given" and it has really stuck with me. When my daugher was three months old I began to nurse her to sleep in the living room instead of on my chest in bed. Until this point I would usually go to bed with her but she began to need to go to sleep earlier 7 or 7:30. I would nurse her in the living room and then place her in her crib. For a few weeks she would immediately wake up and cry when I put her down so I would pick her back up and bring her into my bed like she was used to. During the day she was able to take naps in her crib after being nursed to sleep (sometimes it took a few tries). One day instead of crying when I put her to bed in her crib she slept. I would put music on in her room once she was laid down and I think this helped. She still woke often but not as often and she would sleep with me about halfway through the night. Slowly she began to cut down on the amount of times waking but it wasn't until I realized that she needed to learn to self-sooth that she really began to sleep for long stretches. She came back into bed with me (nursing to sleep in my bed) at around 6 months old due to an ear infection and even after the infection passed she still woke up as much as she had when she co-slept as a 3 month old. I realized that the co-sleeping really wasn't for her because as a high-need baby she is woken easily and stimulated easily. Me turning over would result in her needing to nurse. I moved her back into her crib and she began sleeping through the night with this routine:

6:00- Dinner
6:20- Clean-up baby
6:25-6:30 quiet books and play with mommy on the floor
6:30 Wash hands and face, brush gums, diaper change, lotion, PJ's
6:40 Lay in moms bed being nursed until semi-drowsy or until full
6:50 or so- Placed in crib (curtain draw)

I would then go outside her door and wait counting to 30. If she cried flat out with no break I would go back in and pick her up and sing her a song (the same slow tune each time). I would then place her in her crib after she calmed back down (sometimes I would sing the song through twice, sometimes 3 times). I would repeat this waiting for longer periods of time in between (tops 5 minutes). This allowed her to learn that she was not going to go into my bed to sleep and that I wouldn't ever leave her. An infant at 7 months old (when I began this) is able to begin to understand object permanence and to learn from crying. I do not in any way believe the "cry it out" method. After about a week of this my daughter began to go to sleep in her crib without crying. We still have nights where I have to go in to her 3-4 times before she will fall asleep but they are few and far between. She sleeps through the night and I honestly believe it's because she can self soothe. An infant expects to go back to sleep in the night the same way they were put to sleep. A routine is key with high need babies especially and consistency works wonders. I found a direct relationship with teh amount I wore my daughter and how easy it was to put her to sleep. If she was in the front pack 2-3 hours or more in the day she would go to sleep the easiest. Infants that are high-need need more contact daily and if that is not met in daylight hours they will seek to have the need met at night. My best advice is to adjust your expectatons of your infant. Some infants will do well with what I have suggested but others need to have their back rubbed for 30 minutes or so until they fall asleep in their crib, others need to be nursed to sleep until they're 2. All babies are different and high-need babies need parents who are intuned with what they need as an individual. If your baby is not settled with what I have suggested I would try the following:

A white noise machine (on fairly loudly)
Rubbing your infants back while they are in their crib until they fall asleep
Swaddling (can work wonders even for older babies)
Putting your infant to sleep on their side (this works for many mothers but it means putting your infant all the way to sleep first, if your infant is not yet ready to self-soothe this may be the best option)
Swinging (going to sleep in a swing works well for a lot of infants but not usually high-need infants)

Kylie - posted on 04/27/2009

My first child is and was an intelligent and very determined soul. She was a high needs baby and would never sleep for more than 30 mins on her own in a crib. She would happily sleep in bed with me for 12 hours as long as the boob was right there when she reached out for it. i didn't have access to forums likes these and was a pretty clueless mum. I got told that i was making a "rod for my back" and i was doing the wrong thing by not letting her learn the "skill" of sleeping on her own. i could never let her cry and i knew instinctively if i stared it she would always win because she was a baby that knew what she wanted form day one and made sure i knew it too. Some days i felt frustrated and wondered why everyone else seemed to have a baby that slept through the night from 3 months in their own bedroom. We co-slept for 2 years and it worked for our family, i never felt sleep deprived and my baby grew into a very confident, indepdant little girl who loves to sleep.
My second child is a little different i learned about swaddling and white noise and from 1-4 months he slept 5-7 hours at night in his own bed with no hassles. The past month he sleeps for 5 hours then is awake every 2-3 hours after wanting a feed. He is not as comfortable laying next to me either so i am feeling a lot more tired this time around. I get up in the morning after a broken night of sleep and read all these mums talking about their babies sleeping 12 hours and babies older than 4 months don't need to feed during the night etc. I must say, it's a relief to read that other mums are getting up in the night happily aswel and are feeling the way i feel some days too. i think if we can let go of what our babies "should" be doing, and just go with the flow, let them lead us we will all be happier and have hope, all the night time parenting does pay off, in my experience I think the 24 hour breast feeding has resulted in a very athletic, clever and secure 4 year old.

Anna - posted on 04/27/2009

Hi Sherree-

No matter what you find in your research, don't ever think you are doing something wrong. It sounds like you are very in tune with your baby's needs, and she is in tune with you as well. I think you both just need to find what works for both of you. I too have picked my little one up rougher than I wish I had out of frustration and exhaustion, and beat myself up for it later. I do believe that babies' sleep habits have little to do with breastfeeding and you would find this same behavior in your little one no matter what she is eating. I can't offer too much advice, but I at least wanted to offer my support. Good luck, I'm sure you will find something that works for you very soon. Hang in there!

Sunny - posted on 04/27/2009

Hi Sheree and Chelsea

My boy is also the same as yours. He is VERY determined to say the least. I think he is high-needs as well. Though he is very social, loves attention from others and is very charming to strangers!! I even took him to a sleep clinic because I was getting so stressed about his sleeping habits. He was waking up to 8 times a night and it seemed the only thing that would settle him was the breast, and he would work himself up to a real tizzy too until he got what he wanted. Whilst the clinic helped for a while, he is back to waking a couple of times a night wanting to be fed and he is 12 months old. I think our babies are a bit different, different temperaments and needs to many babies who seem to be content to be on their own for some time, sleep well etc. (well from what I've seen and heard). Like you, I have also picked my son up roughly in sheer frustration and complete exhaustion with the same response, and obviously felt very bad afterward. I'd love to hear suggestions from you Chelsea on how you have gottne your baby to settle longer too! Thanks (and sorry it got a bit off topic!)

Chelsea - posted on 04/27/2009

Quoting Sherree:

Thank you Bobbi. I am looking for support for my theory that it is the baby or the baby's emotions that is keeping them up, rather than something I am doing "wrong". I hear so many stories about babies that sleep right through from a young age and it is very frustrating. Last night I am ashamed to say that I picked up my daughter in anger after I had tried to put her down in her crib at 12:30am (after feeding her) but she started crying hard because she wasn't asleep and still wanted mom. I tried patting her, holding her legs down, shhhhhing her... she just got more and more mad because she knew it was me and wanted to nurse more. I just kept thinking about how she's not supposed to be like this and why can't she be like other babies (this was after she had only slept 3 hours and this was her 2nd time waking). So I picked her up roughly I have to say and I felt terrible after that. Especially since when I tried to put her back on my breast, she initially arched away and wouldn't take it and cried some more until I smoothed her hair and talked to her. It was like she sensed I was mad and she was mad right back and offended. I swear this baby is way beyond normal emotional maturity and always has been. From the day she was born, she would cry when with another person for more than a couple minutes and stop crying when she was back in my arms. My Mom says she has never seen such a baby. She calls her a "determined" baby. I love her to death and I don't want to resent her or misjudge what I've been doing, which mostly has been working out well. I've built trust with her and I can't stop picking her up when she cries for me in the night. I will wait to see if she is crying in her sleep and will go back to sleep, but if it intensifies then I know my determined baby is going to just keep crying harder until she wakes herself fully up and into a tizzy. My daughter loves to laugh when she is awake and is very social. Everyone remarks "what a happy baby!" when they see her. She smiles at any stranger who talks to her, but if they should try to hold her, she immediately looks for me. Sorry to go on and on, but I am finding this cathartic this morning after a rough night.

Sherree,

This picture that you are painting sounds exactly like my daughter.  I have done a lot of reading on what is labeled as "high-need" babies, my daughter is the poster child for a high-needs infant!  There are some great books that can help you to change your attitude toward your daughters behaviors and just get a different perspective on the situation.  The book that I read when I need some support and encouragement is The High-Need and Fussy Baby by Dr. Sears.  If you would like to know how I have helped my daughter to sleep longer (without crying it out) just let me know.  I would be happy to help.

Chelsea

Joanie - posted on 04/27/2009

Breastfeeding and sleep can be correlated in the first few weeks, but not afterwards. Sleep is a skill. The problem is that bf babies learn to only fall asleep at the breast so they wake (as was mentioned before) every couple of hours and can't settle back down by themselves because they are used to nursing. Also, some babies are just better sleepers than others. It is very frustrating. My baby is 10 months old and when he was 6 months I stopped nursing him in the middle of the night unless it had been 6 hours or longer. Now he goes at least 9 hours and if he wakes up before that I just cuddle him for a minute and give him his pacifier and put him back down.



I would recommend looking into some sleep books such as "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" to understand more about baby's sleep needs. Also, maybe someone else could try to comfort baby. My baby always goes down so much easier for anybody else. I guess it has to do with the breastfeeding, but it is really frustrating.

Felicity - posted on 04/27/2009

its definatly the baby not the bf. my dd1 slept through from about 3 months but dd2 is 13 months and still not sleeping through. we get the odd night when she will suprise us and go all night but they are rare. when she wakes i do go to her before she gets too awake as if i leave her she jsut wakes up more gets in a right state and wont go back to sleep, if i get to her quickly most ofthe time a quick cuddle is enough to resettle her, but if she wakes later than about 2am i tend to jsut bring her in with me and she will feed on and off until morning. she will grow out of it when she is ready. i try to force her to sleep all night would be far to stressfull to her as she still needs reasureance that mummy is there, and im not going to out her through that.

like you said about your daughter, she is a very social and confident little girl when she is awake, but she is a mummies girl and needs to know that i am there. this stage wont last forever so whats a couple of years of no slep if it is best for your child.

Sherree - posted on 04/27/2009

Thank you Bobbi. I am looking for support for my theory that it is the baby or the baby's emotions that is keeping them up, rather than something I am doing "wrong". I hear so many stories about babies that sleep right through from a young age and it is very frustrating. Last night I am ashamed to say that I picked up my daughter in anger after I had tried to put her down in her crib at 12:30am (after feeding her) but she started crying hard because she wasn't asleep and still wanted mom. I tried patting her, holding her legs down, shhhhhing her... she just got more and more mad because she knew it was me and wanted to nurse more. I just kept thinking about how she's not supposed to be like this and why can't she be like other babies (this was after she had only slept 3 hours and this was her 2nd time waking). So I picked her up roughly I have to say and I felt terrible after that. Especially since when I tried to put her back on my breast, she initially arched away and wouldn't take it and cried some more until I smoothed her hair and talked to her. It was like she sensed I was mad and she was mad right back and offended. I swear this baby is way beyond normal emotional maturity and always has been. From the day she was born, she would cry when with another person for more than a couple minutes and stop crying when she was back in my arms. My Mom says she has never seen such a baby. She calls her a "determined" baby. I love her to death and I don't want to resent her or misjudge what I've been doing, which mostly has been working out well. I've built trust with her and I can't stop picking her up when she cries for me in the night. I will wait to see if she is crying in her sleep and will go back to sleep, but if it intensifies then I know my determined baby is going to just keep crying harder until she wakes herself fully up and into a tizzy. My daughter loves to laugh when she is awake and is very social. Everyone remarks "what a happy baby!" when they see her. She smiles at any stranger who talks to her, but if they should try to hold her, she immediately looks for me. Sorry to go on and on, but I am finding this cathartic this morning after a rough night.

Bobbi - posted on 04/27/2009

i am struggling with this myself. My 7.5 month old longest stretch is 5 hours. I have been told its the breastfeeding. But after some research i strongly believe it is dependent on the baby. Some will sleep through the night right away. some wont. My mother told me i totured her until i was 2. So possibly genetics.

Rebecca - posted on 04/26/2009

No I don't think its to do with BF, but to do with parenting styles. And a baby's response to parenting styles and their own personalities.
I have a friend, pregnant with her 8th, who EBF until 9mths usually, and her baby's are sleeping 6 hour stretches at 3wks of age. She doesn't nurse on demand, she nurses when she feels the baby should be nursed and will do whatever she can to get them 'sleeping through'.
Obviously they have more passive personalities than my babies, because I have EBF all four of mine, but nursed on demand and they still wake in the night.

Its true of course that BM is digested more quickly, but as well I've known of formula fed babies that wake in the night as well.

Leslie - posted on 04/26/2009

i dont think just because you nurse they will wake up. my oldest slept 8 to 10 hours at 6 weeks, and my youngest slept 8 to 10 hours at 2 weeks both exclusively breastfed. so this is definitely not true.i agree with Martha, they have to learn to wiggle and fall back asleep i swaddled both my kids so they feel nice a tight all night like someone is cuddling them. and that worked best for me my kids never budged and if they cry or wiggle i always wait a second before i move, this is working wonders with my youngest she can scream and go back to sleep, its hilarious. i dont think they need mom in the middle of the night. i'v never heard that unless there 4 then when my oldest has bad dreams she needs me lol but not when there babies hahahah

Martha - posted on 04/26/2009

I don't think sleeping and eating are as related as some people suggest. My exclusively breastfed children have started sleeping 7 hr stretches at 7 weeks old for my first, and 6-8 hr stretches at 1 month for my second. Sure at the very beginning they wake up because they need to eat, and when they get older but are having a growth spurt or are to distracted during the day to eat enough they wake up at night to eat. However, that is true for both breastfed babies and formula fed babies.



Everyone enters a lighter period of sleep every couple of hours. You check your temperature and kick off covers if you are too hot, roll over, etc. Babies need to learn how to comfort themselves back to sleep. There are lots of views about how to accomplish this. What worked for me was swaddling until she started stretching out more and losing her startle reflex and putting her down in her crib when she is drowsy but awake. I didn't run to her room every time she made a noise because she needed a chance to learn how to go back to sleep on her own. I'm not talking about hard core sleep training, just making sure she really needs something and isn't going to settle back to sleep on her own. Ultimately, though, settling back to sleep without help is a milestone like any other. Each child will learn in his or her own time. We as parents can offer opportunities to learn, but the child has to take responsibility for the skill. For example, you can put your baby on her tummy, but she has to learn to hold up her head. You can put a toy just out of reach, but she has to figure out how to roll over to get it.



Just my 2 cents.