Child led weaning/ self weaning

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/30/2010 ( 82 moms have responded )

9,269

169

Lately I'm hearing a lot of misuse of these terms, I know that everyone has the right to use whatever term they want but it's confusing when there is specific definitions for these terms and it's usually misused. I have a few examples of misuse:
1---"my 9 month old self weaned yesterday, she just arched her back and refused to nurse. She prefers bottles now anyways and I'm sad she weaned but it was her choice."
With this it's obviously a nursing strike, many moms think that nursing strikes are self weaning. If your child refuses the breast abruptly, and with anger it's a strike. It can be caused by teething, milestones, stress, and other reasons too. Nursing strikes can happen at any age, but right before a year is when many moms mistake it for weaning. Any time your child abruptly refuses to nurse, it is not weaning, it's a strike. They need your help to get over the strike, not to just switch to a bottle.
2--- "my baby weaned himself from breast-feeding at 5 months, he just prefers bottles now"
Weaning from breast to bottle is not child led weaning, it's just that most humans, babies included, prefer the easy way of things. Bottles are portable, fast flow, and 'me do' style. If given the option, many babies will prefer bottles.
3---"my 13 month old self weaned, I guess he is just to busy and independent to remember to nurse!" remember that 'don't offer don't refuse' is a method of parent led weaning. If you are not offering to breastfeed then you are instigating weaning yourself.
4---"my toddler self weaned because she just likes table food more now" many times moms are thinking this is self weaning but if you think back there was probably times when your child came to pull on your shirt to nurse and you redirected her to the table for a meal. Redirecting her from the breast is another way to parent lead wean. And If you only nurse after a meal at the table it's very likely your child is already full and won't wish to nurse more.
5---"my 16 month old wasn't sleeping through the night until I stopped breastfeeding him to sleep and started a sleep training routine. He self weaned the next few weeks." night time weaning can be perfectly ok and compatible with full term nursing, but it can also start weaning prematurely. Nursing to sleep is one of those things that every child loves, and most moms tolerate at best. But when you start refusing to breastfeed at any time this opens the door for parent led weaning. Once your child realized he is ok not nursing to bed he might think why does he need to nurse in the morning? Or he could think that since you refused to nurse at bedtime, why even ask in the morning because it's obvious to him that you wish not to nurse him anymore.
6---"my daughter self weaned when I became pregnant" pregnancy is not parent led weaning, but it's definately not child led weaning. It's something else affecting the nursing relationship. Unforseen to the child it's uncertain how she will react. And if she does wean because of the pregnancy, it isn't of her choosing per say, it's because something interfered in the relationship of breastfeeding. We could call it environmental weaning.

Ok, so to clarify, parent led weaning is not a bad thing! It's not something to be ashamed of at all. And all these examples are of extremely gentle parent led weaning. And this is perfectly fine to do if that is what best suites your child. There isn't anything bad about encouraging weaning, but it's nice to acknowledge that it isn't really the Childs choice, if something is affecting their decision. Like the law of motion
An object in motion tends to remain in motion unless a force acts against it
Children do not wean young, they really naturally enjoy breastfeeding, and unless something interferes, enjoy breastfeeding for years.
It is accepted knowledge that child led weaning doesn't begin until the minimum age of 2.5 years with an average of 4.4 years and a top of 7 years. So while there's nothing wrong with parent led weaning, if you want to practise child led weaning you should be expecting some age within these estimates, and try to avoid these common areas of subtle parent led weaning.

Please feel free to comment about anything I missed or didn't mention that's in the same category, or to respectfully disagree. I do have links to back up my info, as a few months ago I didn't know any of this at all! Remember, there's nothing bad about parent led weaning, especially in such gentle ways as these, but call it what it is, and it will be easier for new moms to know what to anticipate for true child led weaning. Both ways can be rewarding and wonderful, we can all agree on that! I just want to clarify the use of the terms :)

This conversation has been closed to further comments

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms

82 Comments

View replies by

Andrea - posted on 09/08/2011

55

40

Well said. and it really helps clear some things up in my head. i keep saying 'we'll wean when she's ready (she's almost 21 mos now), but i have take some of the steps above such as not offering the breast, refusing her at times, not nursing to sleep anymore and not nursing her EVERY time she wakes up in the night (2-3 times). however, even with my efforts to at least limit her nursing some, she has showed no signs of slowing down or losing interest. that is why i keep saying we'll do it when she's ready. i feel it is more of a collaborative (even if somewhat unwilling on her part) effort that way.if she had her way she would nurse 10 times a day. she is eating plenty of solid food, but she would just rather nurse. she loves it. and i don't want to take that away from her, but, practically speaking, i can't have a 25 pound 2.5 foot tall person stuck to me 10 times a day for 15-30 minutes a day. hopefully she will take the rest of the initiative on her own, because i don't have the heart to completely cut her off myself.

Erin - posted on 10/10/2010

13

1

Well written! I have a 5 year old nursling choosing her own path in this life we lead. ;) It's beautiful to watch her grow and develop into her own person, her decisions on nursing including. Have a great day to everyone!

Mandy - posted on 10/08/2010

233

16

I had always thought that my oldest had self weaned at 10 months, now I think there is a possibility that it was a nursing strike, but at the time she would only suckle a little then bite me or pull off the breast, then would refuse to take the breast at all.
By the time I had my 2nd I knew about nursing strikes and he self-weaned at 16 months for definite. I would lift my top to offer him the breast but he would forcefully pull my top down and shake his head, this went on for about a week, before I stopped offering. He knew his own mind and had decided that was enough for him.
I think it's all about education, with my 1st I didn't know enough to get past a strike, and if I'd known, I'm sure she would have nursed for longer. With my son, I was totally led by him, so when he started saying no, I knew it was time to stop - and cue quite a few tears from me. Drs just don't enough to advise mums, which is sad as that is usually the 1st port of call when there's a problem.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/07/2010

9,269

169

April, I feel for you! I too am incredibly lazy but for me that's in the favor of nursing. He nurses best on our couch so for me it's the easiest thing. But getting up into the kitchen is more work so unless he asks to eat from the fridge I tend to nurse!

A - posted on 10/07/2010

385

15

Yeah, I"m not judging anyone. I just think its best. But whats best for me isn't best for everyone...If I couldn't pay my bills or pay for food I'd have to work and therefore couldn't breastfed like I do. I wouldn't want someone judging me for that....I just think the intent of this thread was to clear up misconceptions. KNowledge is power.

April- I know what you mean. My son was about a year before he started telling me he wanted to nurse. Other babies will know how to get to the breast when they are a newborn....My son was hard to read too. Give it time, I'm sure your child will start to communicate better eventually. :)

April - posted on 10/07/2010

3,420

16

i have to be careful about the don't offer thing because my son isn't one of those toddlers that tugs at your shirt or has a special name for nursing. he isn't one of those toddlers that will just nurse just anywhere, anytime (even if i offered in another place, he wouldn't). This means i have to watch how many errands i do at one time, because he isn't going to nurse in public or in the car. He just won't do it (unless we've been driving for 5 hours and he's desperate).

Not only do i have to watch how long i'm out, but i have to make sure am offering when we're home because i do get lazy!! it is easy to get lazy when your 26 pound toddler only likes to nurse in bedroom which is quite a trek from the kitchen and living room (2 stories). i feel TERRIBLE for getting lazy!! i used to offer every hour on the hour and now i'm trying to wait til he says something, but he doesn't! Hubby says that means he doesn't care enough about nursing???

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/07/2010

9,269

169

When I offer to my toddler it's when he climbs on my lap sucking his thumb, or when we sit down to cuddle, offering shows the child that you aren't just giving in to their demands, it's what makes it a two person relationship. And like another mom said, if you offer table food or drink, why wouldn't you offer breast milk? It's healthier then any other drink, and it's like a multivitamin as well as an immune system so why would you offer other foods over your milk......that's how I think about it. Offering doesn't mean forcing, just offer as you would offer any other food or drink.
When a toddler is only nursing because they ask the sensitive ones will feel like it's not something mom wants, they can feel like it's more acceptable to eat table foods, like you are more pleased with them if they drink their water then when they nurse.
This causes some to wean prematurely.

Tania - posted on 10/07/2010

108

17

A disagree with "don't offer, don't refuse". If you aren't offering a 3 month old, that is one thing. But a toddler is a completely different story. It IS child led if the child is asking - or not. The parent is following cues from the child in don't offer, don't refuse as to when they would like to nurse. You can't really get any more child led than that.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/07/2010

9,269

169

Leah, if you notice, I have said over and over that child led weaning isn't the only way to be a good mom, I said many times that there's nothing wrong with parent encouraging, or not stopping weaning. I even said I too am using some parent led weaning right now. There hasn't been any judging here, not that I've seen! I don't think any of these moms would say anything bad about your experience because they are all sweet caring moms! I hope you can see all the posts where I said that there's nothing wrong with gentle parent led weaning or environmental weaning, :) I promise we are nice ladies here, I know most of these moms :)

Leah - posted on 10/06/2010

8

28

This whole argument makes me upset. I nursed my oldest until 13 months (when I got nipple thrush and blocked ducts... AGAIN) and therefore decided enough was enough. Then with my twins I nursed them until they stopped by their own choice at 15 and 17 months. Did I spend hours and hours trying to get them back on? Heck no!!! I was just very very proud of myself for making it as long as I did. Feeding all three of my children made me lose a lot of weight and as well, they didn't move onto bottles... they moved onto cups. So I won't call it child weaning anymore. I don't care!!!!!! I am proud of my achievement and know I have set my girls up for a healthy and happy life.
Like a few of the women here have said. Breastfeeding isn't all about the babies. It's a two way relationship and we should celebrate it!!

Women, stop judging women!!!

April - posted on 10/06/2010

3,420

16

i can attest to that...my son was 6.0 at birth and at 6 months old he was 18 pounds. he didn't just double his weight, he tripled it! now he weighs 25.5 pounds at 21 months, which is in the normal range...

Minnie - posted on 10/06/2010

7,075

9

Hmmm, not sure if I'm double posting...

It is important to note that a drop in percentile does not necessarily mean a drop in weight. It can mean a decrease in weight GAIN. And this is very normal for a breastfed infant. Breastfed babies typically gain weight very fast during the first 4-6 months and then that gain drops sharply.

A - posted on 10/06/2010

385

15

@ Rachael- Not that I'm saying you are wrong, but the only thing I can think of is that bf babies often start nursing less and losing weight at that age. I hate it when doctors think you should start supplementing when a child starts losing weight. IMO, that's just ridiculous. My son started out in around the 50% percentile and araound 6 months he started to drop off, and by 9 months was in the 5th percentile. He didn't want to nurse as often- but I know the cause- it was teething pain. Even though he was losing weight, he was meeting milestones early, and I never thought, and my doctors never thought, I should stop offering the breast because of it.

Like I said I'm not saying that your child didn't self wean that early, just trying to give an alternative as to what may have been going on.

A - posted on 10/06/2010

385

15

Heather- Is it an option to stay at the fathers house during the night hours to nurse at night with the child? I don't know if theres restraining orders involved or if the father would object.... I'm sure its not ideal in the least, but if you could maybe come at least at bed time to nurse your child through the night, it could help..... That's the only other option I can think of! I feel for your guys!

Minnie - posted on 10/06/2010

7,075

9

Self weaning implies that the child can thrive on a diet of healthy 'adult' food and water (and that he transitioned to that of his own volition) Not milk of other species or formula supplements.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/06/2010

9,269

169

I know Lisa, I'm feeling a bit teary at the thought of that all. I couldn't imagine that......erics only been away from me for three hours about four times and that killed me!
rachael, I don't know why that happened, but I do know that it can not be normal or natural for a baby that young to wean, it would be a death sentence to him in many places! Formula isn't something that has a place in the normal babies life, but it seems to be 'needed' more and more.
Around the age he started 'weaning' was he teething? Did you use cio or sleep training? Was he dealing with a cold? I'm sure that you could figure out the cause of his weaning, but I can't say without knowing more why it happened, one thought, 6 months is a common growth spurt and most babies will nurse every hour or more for a few days to get the milk they need.....
Idk exactly what happened, but I am sure that it wasn't what is deemed 'self weaning' simply can't survive as a species if our babies weaned at such an age.

Minnie - posted on 10/06/2010

7,075

9

Teresa and Heather- It makes ME terrified for YOU thinking about how I would feel in your situations. Like to the point of feeling short of breath. How horrible! I cannot imagine how traumatized my own two year old would be if she was forced to spend extended time and overnight away from me- and she LOVES her father! So sad.

Tine - posted on 10/06/2010

279

9

Thanks for writing all this down - you're right, and I think that many cases of children not being fed for longer is simple misinformation or lack of information. The Australian Breastfeeding Association website has lots of excellent info on this stuff too, for anyone who wants to know more. :-)

Kristi - posted on 10/05/2010

221

7

Great comments Laura! Thanks for this post. I agree with what you are saying.

Teresa - posted on 10/05/2010

10,689

29

I'm w/ you Heather! After the judge ruled that my son can go for that week... I started trying to wean my son, but the more I tried... the more he wanted it. I've decided NOT to wean him because of that. I just can't do it to him. If I can't get the judge to listen to reason that a 2 year old should not go straight from only being away from his mother up to 8 hours (and only half a dozen or so of those) at a time to then go away from her for a week straight and my ex won't listen to reason in regards to a child he doesn't even KNOW. Well.... whether I wean or not won't eliminate the trauma that will occur for my son. At least I'll know that I'm just trying to do what is best for him in ALL regards.

Rachael - posted on 10/05/2010

118

9

Sorry, my main point was just that I really can't see lumping every child into a category. As previously mentioned, humans are an intellectual specie, which also means that not everything we do is based on instinct (and that includes babies), so if we are giving new mothers advice, the best we can say is that every child is different. When my son was born, the nurses told me that he would want/need to be swaddled, but he broke free from it within a couple hours being alive because he wanted to sprawl. They told me it would be a couple months until he could roll, but he wasn't even a week old. They said it would be a while until he could lift his own head, but that happened within the first week. All I'm saying is that you can provide all the knowledge and links, and while they may be a decent start, you can't tell people that it's this way or not, because there are always exceptions to the rule, and more than most people think there are.

Rachael - posted on 10/05/2010

118

9

At 6 months, my son started nursing less and less, no matter how long I'd keep him there and how many times I'd try. He started losing weight, so I had to introduce the bottle AFTER he started to wean. It was his decision to snub the breast at such a young age that caused my supply to drop, and he had never had a bottle or anything other than breastmilk up to that point. It also took him 2 months to wean himself, so it wasn't abrupt. I'm saying this because you said that a baby wouldn't wean themselves util toddlerhood, but I did not affect his decision, so clearly, they can.

Heather - posted on 10/05/2010

100

4

I have tried everything and have provided the court with as much information as I can and like i said...had a certified lactiation consultatnt on the stand at the trial. The magistrate who ruled on the case was a female and so was the guardian ad litem.. The GAL determined that "she felt" through her VERY limited time she spent with each parent and child that they were both loving parents and that the father deserved overnight visitation whether the child was bf or not. Not to mention they also changed my sons last name to his and gave him all the tax returns because he is paying child support (u know directly through his pay checks so he has no choice to pay or not) I was never married and he didnt see my son till he was 4 months old and then kept jumping in and out of his life till he was about 9 months old before taking him on his normal days every week. I meerly asked the court to postpone overnight visiation untill connor was 2 years old at which time I would wean him. My son is 18 months old...and we still do not have a final court decision since I made objections OBVIOUSLY and I am waiting on the result of those. I feel that fathers rights have went to a whole new level in court systems. FAthers seem to get whatever they want no a days. I know a women whos ex husband strangled her in front of all 4 of their kids and she almost died. Guess what....he still has visitation with his kids who saw it all. The reason? well he didnt hurt the kids. COME ON.
On a semi happier note my son got really sick when I started to wean him so I allowed him to go back to his original feedings untill he was feeling better. It made me feel better to get another few weeks in. Once the court makes the decision connor may start every other weekend and go 48 hours without breastfeeding. DO i think it will go well?? no, not really. At this point in time I do not offer the breast as often as I used to and I do not breastfeed him at bedtime like I used to. Throughout the day when he wants to breastfeed he puts his hand down my shirt and I will normally let him eat..I just dont offer without his initiation. I consider each month that I can continue breastfeeding a blessing and just hope for another month. If he can continue to breastfeed even when he switches to every other weekend and I can keep up a milk supply then I guess we may be able to continue. However, local court rule grants him half of x-mas vacation which is about a week. I know that will be our ending point for sure since I cannot pump milk. He will be 21 months old then. My son also has a constipation problem with milk and can only drink almond milk. He has a straw cup of water/juice and a straw cup of almond milk every day. He usually will not drink a full cup of the milk but the only reason he has it was my attempt to find a milk he could tolerate so that he could start to wean off breastmilk to that. He still wants to breastfeed so I guess that didnt work lol. I dont care....like I said every day, week, month he continues is fine with me. I know what im doing is right....even if noone else believes me. (like court)

A - posted on 10/05/2010

385

15

On the parental rights issue....I think it has more to do with society's ignorance in general when it comes to breastfeeding. Most people are formula/bottle feeding these days (and even though its making a comeback now, the judges are probably from the generation when formula was the majority) and even if they are breastfeeding, extended breastfeeding is a topic a lot of people have little knowledge on. I think Teresa and Heather need to find research and information to provide to the judges that indicate extended breastfeeding is normal, natural, and in the best interest of the child. I think if you were just to say in court "I'm still breastfeeding therefore I need my child with me" they would just think "Just wean him/her already!". When I kept nursing my son after a year, I got comments from both my family and my husbands. Even my sister, who has breastfed two children, didn't know a thing about extended breastfeeding or feeding past a year. She thought cows milk was just as good then. Another person in the family thought breastmilk didn't have any benefits past 6 months. If breastfeeding moms don't know, its very unlikely judges who are older don't know because either they don't have children, or their children are grown, and the knowledge on the importance of breastfeeding wasn't known back then.

I totally feel fathers should have a right to see their children (if they are responsible enough) but like someone else said, if the father truly loved his child he would understand the importance of breastfeeding as long as the child needs to.

I had to leave my child with my husband the other day for a root canal procedure. It took about 3 hours. I've only been away from him that long maybe 2 other times his whole life. My son started pulling on my husbands shirt to nurse and no cup or beverage my husband offered did the trick. I felt really bad....I can only imagine if I had to leave my child with someone for a week! Prayers for both of you guys.

April - posted on 10/05/2010

3,420

16

i feel sad for you both, Teresa and Heather. there is more to it than a father's right to see his child. it feels more like the judges are men putting down women. it kind of feels more like a gender bias thing than anything else! i don't know, maybe the judges are female...but it still feels like gender bias to me. it is very unfortunate to be made to feel like what you're doing for your child is not as important.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/05/2010

9,269

169

Teresa and heather, I'll be praying for you in your custody troubles, I can assume you both know what I feel should happen:) I just hope that you can get the point accross to a jugde who is receptive to the facts and emotions. I really wonder why some of these rulings get by, I mean yes dads deserve time, but if the dad trueky had his Childs best interest at heart he would not be allowing his visitation to turn his Childs world on end. It's not going to be a nice visit if the child is wanting to nurse time and time again and mom isn't around..........stay strong you two"

Teresa - posted on 10/05/2010

10,689

29

I fully feel for you Heather. The judge granted that my ex get all 3 kids for a week in December (a visit I am going back to court to fight/change for a variety of reasons). My son is 2.5, never been w/ his father for longer than an 8 hour stretch, only been w/ his father for 10 different days (in 3-8 hour intervals), never gone longer than 13 hours w/out breastfeeding, and hasn't even SEEN his 'father' in 6 months straight now (completely father's choice). Yet the judge thinks sending my baby off for a week straight where I won't be able to go to him at ALL is a good idea..... 'Father's rights' should NOT outweigh the best interest of the child.

I know that's a bit off topic, but Heather needing to wean is just bringing that all up for me at the moment. :(

And I'm the one that mentioned about 'not offering', but I'm the one w/ the 2.5 year old that has never in his life gone longer than 13 hours w/out initiating nursing... and that was only once. ;)

A - posted on 10/05/2010

385

15

I'm so glad I decided to stick with breastfeeding and not wean at a year, like I originally planned. Many people in our culture are shocked at how long some people are nursing their children. They think its weird, wrong, disgusting, etc. They think its not needed. IMO, its not all about nutrition once a baby/toddler gets older. Its about comfort and psychological needs. No older child (for example, a 3 year old) can live off of breastmilk alone. So, if they can eat solids, why still offer the breast? Because of the psychological needs of the child. One of the best examples I've found is from the Bible. Hope I'm not offending anyone who isn't Christian by saying this but I'm sure many people would be interested to know that in 2 Maccabees chapter 7 verse 27 there's an example of a mother who says she carried her child for 9 months and nursed him for 3 years :) (Interesting side note- even the original King James Version of the Bible contained 2 Maccabees and this passage as well). So for all the other Christian moms I'm sure this is a great encouragement that you are doing whats best for your child by letting them self wean from the breast :) Sorry to get off topic a little bit, I was just very excited to find that and wanted to share!

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/05/2010

9,269

169

How old was she at that time?

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/05/2010

9,269

169

I just have to ask, what was in the cups she weaned onto? If it was water, then I could agree that she truly didn't need your milk, but if you were offering another kind of milk then it's just like the bottle weaning, she just preferred the portable, self controlled, easier method of getting milk. When breastfeeding three or more times a day there's no nutritional need for cows milk. And even then, cows milk is never necessary, just a cheap easy way to get calcium.
So I'm wondering if she was just transitioning to the cup because it had milk in it? I could be wrong, just speculation based on experience :)

Elizabeth - posted on 10/05/2010

12

4

While you may read that it is not possible sooner, my daughter gradually decreased nursing time over a month and a half time period and began drinking from cups. There are always exceptions. It was sad for me, but she never went back to nursing.

Minnie - posted on 10/05/2010

7,075

9

I agree, Heather, that it is a very sad thing that it becomes a toss-up over what is best for a child. His father's right to extended visitation or a child's need to continue the breastfeeding relationship? It is very unfortunate that most judges are not aware of how traumatizing it can be for a toddler to be forced to wean. I hope that someday soon people will become aware of how much natural duration breastfeeding is a NEED for children and how much being with mother is a need for those first few years of their lives.

Heather - posted on 10/05/2010

100

4

i just had to mention i read a few responses about weaning and the "dont offer" thing. I read one that said if u offer the breast then that is not child led....well lets think about this for a moment.....once children are up and running everywhere they can be overly distracted and forget about eating. WE as parents have to make sure we feed our children and stay on track for them. We put a plate of food on the table at dinner time with a drink. We are giving them the food and they decide to eat it. By not offering the breast a busy toddler may not even think about it. But you can offer the child the breast and if they want to eat they can, they make that choice. No matter what breastfeeding CANNOT be forced except through a bottle. You cannot stick ur breast in a babies mouth and MAKE them drink. I am currently bf a 18 month old who I am MAKING start to wean because I am in a visitation battle with the father and the court feels that giving the father extended time outweights the childs need and want to breastfeed. The court cannot order that i quit breastfeeding but they CAN MAKE it so its impossible to continue. Please keep in mind i have never with held visitation from the father nor have I used breastfeeding as an excuse. I have always tried to make an agreement that my son will benefit the most out of. Society does not see the importance of children breastfeeding till age 2 and possibly beyond. IT is hard on me to have to make my son wean when he DOES NOT want to but I dont have a choice. All I can do is look forward to being able to bf my next children as long as they want to because their father wont force me to stop!!!!! I even had a lactation consultant present at my court case and even though she is a professional they said she cannot give opinion about a childs diet and tried to get her testimony thrown out of court. Anyways that all I wanted to say. By with holding the breast you are initiating self weaning. Im not judging anyone on how they fed their child or how long they bf or anything. I just wish I had the RIGHT as a parent to feed my child as long as he mutually wants to. What happen to our rights as mothers?? What happened to our childrens rights??? How can a court determine that a childs breastfeeding past the age of one year is nonimportnat and taking the child away from breastfeeding for extended periods at a time is in the "best interest of the child" OH PLEASE!

Minnie - posted on 10/05/2010

7,075

9

About the animals practicing parent-led weaning we must understand as well that these animals STILL breastfeed for natural duration- for their species.



We should compare ourselves with the great apes (chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans)- and I know that someone reading this will find this offensive (because it's happened before)- we share 98.5 % of our DNA with these creatures. We shouldn't compare our biology with horses and cats (because we are higher primates and not equines or bovines or felines) but with great apes, who nurse their children for about five years. So even if it was parent-led weaning, our culture practicing parent-led weaning at 12 months is waaaaay off from what our children expect biologically.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/05/2010

9,269

169

It's easy to look at it this way, if there was no formula available, would any baby choose to wean off of all milk before a year old? If we lived in a society where there is no formula, and no cows milk, it would be very dangerous for her to wean so young. She doesn't know there's alternatives unless you offer them, so if breast is all she's offered, she won't self wean so very young. Strikes are common, but not permanent.just don't offer her bottles, sippy cups, or too much table food until the strike ends. Your milk is vital to her best health, and she can't afford to wean so young without side effects. You can read on kellymom.com there's a lot of help for strikes there! It will pass, even if it feels like forever!

April - posted on 10/05/2010

3,420

16

@ Amy Marr....I agree with you that other animals seem to do the parent-led thing! I went to a petting zoo and saw this baby goat trying to nurse from his mother and she kept walking away from him!! He was stubborn and kept trying to re-latch, but each time she tried getting away. I felt so sad for the baby goat because he seemed pretty young to be rejected like that!

April - posted on 10/05/2010

3,420

16

@Bek Hudson...that doesn't sound like self weaning to me. That sounds like a stage your daughter is going through. My son was like that at about 10 months too. There are specific ages where children go through periods of not wanting the breast. I believe it was mentioned by the OP somewhere above.

Bek - posted on 10/05/2010

12

6

I think you're possibly being a bit presumptuous. I know general practitioners and dieticians (who presumably know the difference between a strike and self-weaning) who's children have sometimes suddenly self-weaned - not a weaning strike. My daughter seems to be in the midst of self-weaning at the moment, at 10 months, and even though I keep offering her the breast, the only truly reliable time that she'll take it is first thing in the morning. She really does seem too busy to be bothered sitting still and having a breast feed.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/04/2010

9,269

169

Self-Weaning during Pregnancy
Reports seem to indicate that 26% of children self-wean during pregnancy1. If this figure sounds low to you, that may be due to some misinterpretations of the available data. Indeed, the study by Moscona is frequently misinterpreted as saying that 57% of children self-weaned during their mother’s pregnancy. Although 31 out of 57 babies, or 57%, of the children who were nursing at the beginning of their mothers’ pregnancies were no longer nursing by the end, the investigator specifically records that the weaning was baby-led in 15 of these 31 cases and mother-led in 16. Therefore the percentage of babies who self-weaned was 15 out of 57, or 26%. Similarly, Niles Newton’s study found that 69% of babies were no longer nursing by the end of their mother’s pregnancy, and this figure, too, is often incorrectly offered as a self-weaning-during-pregnancy statistic. However, Newton’s 69% includes mother-led weaning, too.2

-- Hilary Flower in Adventures in Tandem Nursing, p. 166

this is taken from kellymom.com which for anyone interested has a ton of great facts and help for everything breastfeeding including tons about tandem nursing and nursing during pregnancy.
this encourages me that my eric wont be self weaning prematurely due to my pregnancy, also i simply wont let it happen :) So two years is our bare minimum, and despite this pregnancy and baby to come we will get there and i bet double it!
PS the health recommendation is to not try to conceive until your child is 2 years old to ensure that each child gets a minimum of two years of unabstructed breastmilk, im earlier then this but im bound and determined to not let anything bad happen to erics nursing.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/04/2010

9,269

169

i agree, ive seem it with dogs, cats, pigs, sheep, cows too. but i guess thats why we are the intelligent ones with feelings and higher thoughts! animals need to reproduce often so they survive but humans are about quality not quantity (thank God) so we can do better for our kids!
heres an article about higher primates, apes and such and how they breastfeed, you will find that we are more alike these apes then cows horses etc anyways !

Amy - posted on 10/04/2010

24

0

I believe that parent-led weaning is the norm in other species besides humans from what I saw. I studied wild horses for about 10 weeks when I was an undergraduate in wildlife biology and all of the mothers would be aggressive at their 1 year old children (nip at their flanks for example) to try to get them to stop bugging them for milk. They could get downright mean at times. However, they were very nurturing to the foals born that summer and never pushed them away.

Malisa - posted on 10/04/2010

5

30

We have been dong the co-sleeping almost my 18 month old daughters whole life, and it is the only way I could still breastfeed her so long. My son weaned at 12 months, and I partly encouraged that b/c I was pregnant with my daughter and wanted some kind of break. So with back to back pregnancy's and breastfeeding both kids I have had interrupted sleep for 4 years. All the while I have been working full time and even finished up my master degree during both pregnancies. I don't want to stop breastfeeding her b/c I am away from her during the day (my husband stays home with the kids and I work) and I know it is great for her, besides the "mommy" time. But mommy needs some rest also. Caught between a rock and a hard place. ~Malisa

Minnie - posted on 10/04/2010

7,075

9

I think April, if you made every effort to continue the breastfeeding relationship that your chances would be good on tandem nursing- offering whenever you think of it.

From those mothers who I know have successfully tandem nursed those who took extremely good care of their bodies didn't notice a drop in milk production at all.

That is a difficult decision to make! But an exciting possibility! I think my husband would freak if I brought up something like that :).

April - posted on 10/04/2010

3,420

16

p.s. laura, thank you for coming up with the term "environmental weaning". that lessens the feelings of guilt a little bit. and lisa, thank you for your post on the 18 month mark. it is nice to know we have a good chance of making it to natural duration. i do wonder what the chances are of tandeming. i know some children nurse during a pregnancy and some don't. Are there any stats on that? (hubby is being pretty persistent in having another one. i MIGHT consider it, if the chances of tandeming are high)

April - posted on 10/04/2010

3,420

16

Laura, i can relate to your feelings of early weaning due to a pregnancy. my son is almost 2 and my husband says he feels ready to try again for another baby. he is game, but i've been dragging my feet. i've been scared that a pregnancy would cause my son to wean before natural duration. hubby thinks it's already been a natural duration...he said "Zach is almost 2...how is that not natural??" i guess it's different when you're not the parent responsible for directly passing on the liquid gold! For me, I look into my son's face and i would feel totally guilty for making a choice that could take the milk away. on the upside...hubby was totally against nursing in the car and yesterday when our son was crying (it was a LONG trip) he said "why don't you nurse him?" that really showed me that his comfort level is growing!

Deb - posted on 10/04/2010

4

2

Thank you, Laura! I KNOW you would do a fantastic job with twins, just like you're doing with Eric, just x 2! :)

I think it's awesome that your husband is so supportive and even more awesome that he came around as a result of your research and showing him the facts. Good for you for having such a loving and supportive family. Eric is a lucky little guy.

It's a shame that, as you said, society has thrust this stupid hangup on us about extended breastfeeding. To show how natural it is, I was breastfeeding my twins when they were just born and my 5-year-old nephew comes over and says, "You're going to find this very funny." I say, "What is it?" He says, "Can I have some?" He was breasfed for three months. I LOL'd but then I felt so sad for him. Breastfeeding is such a wonderful gift.

Minnie - posted on 10/04/2010

7,075

9

Your husband sounds quite similar to mine. He has really grown in his understanding of our girls' needs and I compliment him in that he is more knowledgeable about breastfeeding than most mothers are!

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/04/2010

9,269

169

Yes it is rare, but he thinks it's a simple choice, all I did was show him the health benefits for me and for Eric and with all the facts, he couldn't agree more! He just say a that whatever is best for Eric, is what we will do. And he is proud that I go against the flow of society for the sake of our kids health. But he wasn't always like this, he just learned, and agreed!
Deb, you inspire me too! I dream of having twins but I fear that I couldn't give each one my 100% , but it seems that it's possible! Way to go, and I totally understand the boost you get from hearing you aren't alone! It's magical to hear that you and your kids are NORMAL!
:)

Deb - posted on 10/04/2010

4

2

Thank you so very much, Laura! That was so helpful to me. My gut was telling me they were not ready yet but I've been made to feel guilty about it. Now I don't!! It's so great to know that others are doing the same thing. I just know our babies are better off.
With twins it is more difficult because they are definitely not on the same schedule, but it's still doable. Fortunately I am a SAHM so I can try to fit in daytime naps. Thanks again for your advice!