Desperate for advice, sorry for the long story! Please read!

Rebecca - posted on 09/24/2010 ( 23 moms have responded )

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First off, I'm new to this board. I'm 19 years old and my daughter, Saydi, was born August 22nd, 2010. Everything went absolutely perfect until we tried to get Saydi to nurse. She absolutely refused to latch on, and though she was born on her due date, our lactation consultant thought it could be the fact that her APGAR was 37 weeks, that she wasn't quite down with the latching with her tongue down and sucking couple.

We worked for hours after Saydi was born to try to teach her, but the nurses insisted after the 24 hour mark that we HAD to supplement formula since we could not successfully get her to latch on.

We did so, since they scared us into thinking she wasn't eating enough, and only 2 feedings later, we woke up to our darling Saydi, laying in a pool of her own throw up. She was very pale and crying in such a way that made me know that something was wrong with her.

Our day nurse took her to clean up her bedding and make sure everything was OK. Her temp was a low 94, so they took her to the nursery to warm her up a bit. They took x-rays of her chest and abdomen and she had a substantial amount of fluid in her lungs from passing through the birth canal. They admitted her to the special care nursery and put her on oxygen to help her breathe off the fluid and an antibiotic IV, just in case she had any sort of bacteria.

That first night was really hard. I was discharged and sent home, for lack of out-patient rooms to stay in. We live on the other side of town from the hospital, so we weren't able to go for all of her feedings around the clock. They gave her a bottle of Nutramigen formula, a hypo-allergenic formula that's already digested, to be easy on her tummy. They found us a room the next night, so we were at the hospital all day and night, still working with our lactation consultant to get her to nurse. We were, (and still are), very determined to breast feed. Saydi was hooked on the "instant gratification" from the bottle, so it was still very difficult. She was discharged 4 days later and since then, we've had been trying for over an hour before each feeding to get her to latch on, but she's sooo stubborn. The girl doesn't like boobies in her face!

Since she wouldn't latch on, after trying to get her to, I would pump milk for her to eat. I was determined to keep her away from formula, especially since she had such a horrible allergic reaction to it in the hospital. But after about a week after she was discharged, I couldn't produce enough milk for her by just pumping! I tried everything my lactation consultant and others had suggested to do to get my supply back up, but nothing worked. Soon, I was only able to pump 1 oz A DAY, as opposed to 9 oz every 3 hours, in 20 minutes like before.

Turns out, I contracted a Thrush infection that first day Saydi was on antibiotics in the nursery. It went unnoticed for so long, it started affecting my milk supply. We put nursing on hold, so I could heal myself up (as it was so painful to even try to pump or try to nurse), so we were forced to feed her the Nutramigen formula. She was okay with it for about a week, then developed an allergy to it! We've tried all kinds of Soy and pre-digested formula, but she's still having such a hard time with it. The one we found that was easiest on her was the Parent's Choice Soy formula. We suspect she has GE Reflux Disease, just as her father did when he was a baby.

So here's my problem:
It's been 2 weeks on anti fungal pills and this Thrush infection is STILL causing me problems! I've tried to start pumping again, but it just opens back up cracks and sores, allowing infected milk to get back in, keeping the infection on my nipples. I tried to hand-express, but I can't even get a drop.

Does ANYONE have ANY experience with Thrush, and if so, what was the most affective way of curing it??? Once it does go away, is there any hope of getting my milk supply back?? How can I do that??

Thank you so much for your patience if you read this whole thing, I'm just at a stand-still! I don't know what else to do!

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Nicole - posted on 09/26/2010

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It sounds like you (and your LC) are doing what you can for the thrush. Keep your bras clean and put them in the sun for a few hours (embarrassing if you don't have a private back yard or outside space, but you can hang them in a very bright and sunny window, too). Boil ANYTHING that comes into contact with your breasts, your breast milk and your baby's mouth for 20 minutes per day (i.e. pump attachments, bottles, etc.). Continue using the antifungals. Have you been prescribed Diflucan or other oral yeast prescription? That would help. Also, Gentian Violet (found at health stores) rubbed on your nipples can help. Keep your breast area dry and well ventilated (especially if you are wearing breast pads). And go topless around your house for an hour or so a day - the air will do wonders!!!



You can get your milk supply to come back! It will just take some effort and time. Take the fenugreek and the milk tea. The best thing you can do to get your supply back is to get the baby to latch on! How??? Well, put her skin to skin with you often! Take a 'nursing vacation' and get in the bed with her and put her skin to skin with your chest and relax! Let the housework go and rest with her for about a day or two. Get in a warm bath and hold her chest to chest with you. Anytime you have to give her a bottle, give it while skin to skin with her and put the bottle as close to your nipple as possible. If you can get your milk to let down, try to latch her after that, so she still gets that instant gratification. If you give any pacifiers, hold her skin to skin with the pacifier right at your nipple. I don't usually recommend nipple shields for my clients, but in cases like yours, one may help! My point: you want her to associate the breast with love and comfort, food and nourishment, so anytime she is getting any of these things, it should be at your bare chest - Bottle at your bare chest, pacifier at your bare chest, latch with nipple shield, etc. Then, once you get a latch achieved, you can use a Supplemental Nursing System until your supply is 100% again (see your LC or a LLL Leader for info on where to get one in your area). Supplemental Nursing System (SNS) is an aid that allows for a supplement to be given while baby is latched to the breast at the same time. Awesome systems!!!!!!!!



Just hang in there and keep stimulating your breasts through hand expression, pumping or massage. The best thing you can do is to get her to latch on and start breastfeeding again. That will take some work, but it is attainable.



Don't be hard on yourself! You have done more for your baby in these two weeks just trying to breastfeed than some parents do while doing EVERYTHING ELSE! You are awesome!



I hope things get better soon!



Check out: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/relact...

[deleted account]

Hi Sylvie, I know you didn't post this to get advice for your own situation, but could it be maybe something in your sons environment that triggers his allergies? Fabrics, washing powder, cleaning products? You probably looked into all of that already, just thought I mention it anyway.
Rebecca: Again, good luck with everything!

[deleted account]

I thought of something after all. Did your baby and your partner get treated for thrush as well? I know this is something that can easily be passed on back and forth. Also, washing yours and baby's hands frequently and anything that you both come in contact with. Change bra everyday, hot wash for clothes etc. Also look up drjacknewman.com. He's got some good stuff on thrush including some prescription ointment that's a mix of antibiotic, antifungal and antiinflammatory. Hope that helps a little.

Merry - posted on 09/25/2010

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You can even get your milk back if it's totally gone. Look on kellymom.com it's called relactating.

Elizabeth - posted on 09/25/2010

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I haven't had to experiance Thrush but since you havent gotten much replies back I figured maybe this might help. have you tried any Lansinoh Creme? it suppose to help heal cracks and sores on the nipple. Also have you lost your milk supply or is it low? If your milk supply is completly gone you can't get it back BUT if it is low there are ways. When I went to the dr when my baby was about 2 months and i got on birth control and my milk supply went way down from 8 oz to only pumping 3oz. The nurse I spoke to told me to go GNC and get Fenugreek I took 3 tablets 3 times a day. Look it up on the internet and read its effects and you can also talk to your dr about it they should be able to help. But it brought my milk supply back up. made me smell like maple syrup lol but all in all smelling all mapley was worth it. I really hope you find a way to bf your little one and I wish you and your baby the best of luck as you go and hope you dont encounter any more problems.

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Rebecca - posted on 09/30/2010

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Awww poor Maxime! It definitely sounds like an allergy rash to me. At first, Saydi's doc said it was a yeast rash, because I was diagnosed with Thrush the same day. We tried the antifungal cream on it, that didn't work. Then the doc said it was an allergy to her diaper, so they told us to use this cow udder cream called Corona to protect it from the diaper and heal it. Well, it wasn't healing. Then, the blood in her stool came. I figured it could either be internal bleeding or an allergy to dairy protein. So, praying to God that it wasn't internal bleeding, I switched to a formula without any dairy protein (The generic Soy formula) and the blood, AND her rash, was gone within a day or two.

[deleted account]

Wow, poor little one!! Maxime currently has a rash we cannot get rid of for over a month now, I begin to suspect allergy is linked ot this,... Dr. have conflicting diagnosis, one said it is fungus, tanother diaper rash, but none of the cream seem to work for more than a couple of days... then the rash comes right back, ...

I am really happy you found that formula! Blood in stool seems so extreme! Poor little Saydi!

Rebecca - posted on 09/30/2010

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Yeah, She had a horrible open-sore rash due to allergies. It got worse every time we had to switch formulas and she had constant blood in her stool until we found the formula she is eating now. Thank you so much for your posts :)

[deleted account]

Hi Daniela, Thanks a lot for your concerns. Indeed, Maxime's allergies might be triggered by the environment and have nothing to do with food... We still don't know. We noticed that he had eczema all over his body but NOT where he has his diaper. So I changed our laundry and we only use natural detergent. Same for his "soap" and "shampoo", creams etc... At some point, we stayed at my in-laws for 2 weeks and did a laundry there with a more standard laundry detergent, and our son reacted to it, so we know and bring his specific eco brand with us now,... I know he cannot have wool on him at all (we now live in Norway, where wool is THE answer to everything...). We traveled extensively this summer,and Maxime still suffered from his eczema, being in Croatia, Switzerland or Iceland, so, it is not something that is in our apartment that triggers it... Which is why I still think it is food-related, but it might be something in his environment we didn't find out yet...
Thanks a lot for your suggestions! I am still looking for the culprit so any idea is welcome! I went to see his allergy Dr yesterday, and she gave up, saying she doesn't understand... I hope the French specialist I am planning to see in a month will be more efficient and will not drop the issue.

Rebecca, do you say that your daughter actually reacted to Neocate as well? I am apparently wrong since I thought that this formula could not trigger allergies... I am happy you found one that works well for you and remains affordable. It is true that neocate is terribly expensive. We don't pay for it since it is prescribed by the Dr here, so, luckily, we don't face the outrageous cost of that formula.

Good luck and I really hope everything will work out fine for you and Saydi.
Sylvie

Rebecca - posted on 09/28/2010

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Thank you for sharing, Sylvie :) We were supplementing Nutramigen ever since we got out of the hospital. Saydi developed an allergy to it, and NeoCate, after about a week. So far the only formula she hasn't had problems with is the Parent's Choice Soy formula. That works for us, since it's the cheapest anyway.

[deleted account]

Hi Rebecca! Wow, you are wonderful! Taking care of a healthy newborn is not easy to start with, but when you go through difficult time, it is even more complicated! Well done, you are really going the extra mile.

I cannot help on the thrush (never had it) nor re-lactation (although I read about it and know it is feasible if very motivated, like you seem to be).

What I have dealt with with my second son (now 11 months) is milk and other foods allergies. I am a 100% PRO breastfeeding person. I breastfed my daughter until she was 13 months old, and I am just weaning my 11 months old son right now, because of his allergies. I would like to share my story with you so that, if you don't succeed to continue breastfeeding and HAVE to use only these special synthetic formulas, you might not feel as bad as now.

My son has always been very difficult as a baby, not able to sleep on his back, crying a lot, having severe eczema and therefore always itchy skin and open wounds (the skin cracks open all the time, which leads to infections etc.) I have exclusively breastfed him for 6 months, and he had never got a single drop of any type of formula before he was diagnosed with milk allergy, then, soy and then egg allergy, as well as reflux. Based on these (late) discoveries, I modified my diet and I am not eating anything that contains any dairy (any mammal's milk, cheese, butter, cream, ...) and beef, soy and eggs. After months of this elimination diet, my son's symptoms have not improved. We struggled to introduce Nutramigen to him when he was 8 months old, since he was only breastfed, he would not accept the bad taste of the formula... For a month now, he is on Neocate, which is not even based on cow milk at all (Nutramigen still is), only on amino-acids. His medications are taking care of the reflux, but his eczema is still totally out of control, so I decided to stop breastfeeding because I believe it is better for him. I think he is reacting to something I am eating and that we didn't succeed to find out yet. There are many false negative when you do allergy testing on young babies. I don't know what triggers his eczema, but I want to try weaning him in the hope we'll eliminate the allergens. It is easier to spot the culprit from his own diet than mine. It would have been even easier earlier, because at 11 months, he is already somewhat diversified (I went super slowly and he is only getting the ingredients that are the safest and less allergenic ones: not yet raw fruits, definitively no berries, tomatoes, etc etc). I hope we'll find the cause of his eczema ASAP.

So, maybe, if you cannot go back to breastfeeding, these synthetic formula will actually become "life-savers" for your daughter...

Good luck with everything, and I truly hope you'll succeed to go back to breastfeeding: you are right, it is a wonderful bonding experience, but in some cases, no matter how hard you fight and try, it doesn't work, and then, you (and all of us reading here) know you have done your very best for your daughter!

Sylvie

Rebecca - posted on 09/28/2010

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Yeah, we have tried the nipple shield. She still got very frustrated with it, so we created our own supplemental nursing system, with a tube going from a syringe into the tip of the nipple shield and squirting my breast milk through it to get Saydi to latch on and start sucking. We were very avid with this, but she still wouldn't take to it. For now, my LC is more concerned with my healing before rigging up some different ways of getting her to latch on. As long as I know that there are ways of getting my milk supply back up, i'm going to trust her for now. As of right now, all I can do is continue to hand-express and just wait for the cracks on my nipples to heal.

Jordan - posted on 09/27/2010

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I was allergic to the finugreek so my lactation consultant prescribed me domperidone. It is more expensive but it helped me. Also my lactation consultant told me that when you pump you cannot get all the milk your baby can when sucking. Have you tried using a nipple shield (so it will feel like more of a bottle to your baby) to nurse? It might help not spread the thrush (not sure, just guessing) and give your baby the bottle feel so it will help them transition to the breast.

Crystal - posted on 09/27/2010

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maybe this will help her latch...even if you must continue suplementing

but its a thing-a-ma-jig (for lack of a better word) that medela makes
here is the website
http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/pro...
and here is the description that is on the website....
Supplemental Nursing System™ (SNS)

First developed to help adoptive mothers induce lactation by feeding their babies at the breast to trigger hormonal changes that enhance milk production. This adjustable flow-rate system can also be used to give supplements while keeping baby on the breast.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Supplemental Nursing System™ (SNS)
Model: 00901

Features and Benefits
Ideal for long-term supplemental feedings at the breast
A breastfeeding assistance kit for moms and babies facing special challenges, such as inducing lactation or suck problems
Adjustable flow-rate system
Color-coded tubes for different feed rates
Neck strap for maximum convenience
Sterile packaging allowing for immediate use out of the package
Chosen for you and your baby - All parts that come into contact with breastmilk are BPA/DEHP Free.
What’s Included
SNS container
Valve holder
Cap and cover
Attachment ring
3 sizes of tubing
Tape
Neck Strap
Instructions


i dont know you but i am so proud of you for sticking with bfing even through all the obstacles! you are giving your little girl the very best from the very beginning!! way to go!!

Kayla - posted on 09/26/2010

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Im so sorry you have to deal with this.
I just recently got rid of thrush.. i tried BILLIONS of things and NOTHING worked.. Finally, i went and got Genatian Violet and it got better in about 2 weeks.. it did however get really bad before getting better but i have been thrush free for about a month now. its worth the try.. i have no idea about relactating though.. sorry.. another thing you can try is unflavored yogurt(make sure it has live,active cultures in it.) thats all i can think of.. your a WONDERFUL mommy for going through all this to give your babe the best possible thing.

Rebecca - posted on 09/26/2010

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Wow Nicole, thank you so much! Those are all wonderful ideas, time to put them to good use! :)

Rebecca - posted on 09/25/2010

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Also, i was using the Lansinoh cream and went through half a tube before my LC prescribed me a cream with antifungal and antibacterial properties and lanolin. That definitely helps with the burning and itching, but I have yet to see results.

Rebecca - posted on 09/25/2010

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Thank you so much ladies :) my milk supply has completely dried up, i'm not able to get a single drop with hand expressing or pumping. I have Fenugreek pills and "Mother's Milk" tea, but I have yet to try them. My boyfriend and daughter were both tested for Thrush, and I was the only one with it, thankfully. I am really careful with it, i treat everything that comes into contact with my breasts as if it's contaminated with some sort of horrible virus, lol. I'm going to contact La Leche League tomorrow and I'm hoping they'll give me some information on this "relactating". If not, i'll go to the website. Again, thank you so much for your advice and support, it really helps :)

Catlin - posted on 09/25/2010

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Grape Seed extract/ oil!!!! I've heard it works wonders!! you should be able to get it at a health food store!! Also, contact La Leche League.

Merry - posted on 09/25/2010

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I feel for you, I really do. I'm sorry to not have much help but just be comforted that you can proudly say to your daughter one day that you worked your butt of to figure out what's best for her!

Rebecca - posted on 09/24/2010

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Wow, thank you so much! I just really want the best for my baby and I hate seeing her struggle with all of this synthetic formula. At least I know exactly what's in my breast milk and exactly where it comes from. That Similac recall just recently really just made me want to step up my game and find other ways of dealing with this Thrush infection. It makes me so sad to think that there are babies out there that have eaten this infested formula and it makes me pray to God that there is nothing like that going on with the formula that I'm forced to feed my daughter!

[deleted account]

I know you are desperately looking for help so I probably shouldn't be wasting your time, not having any advice for you, but I just have to say: YOU ARE BRILLIANT!!! So many obstacles and worries and here you are still battling on with such conviction. You are a total inspiration. I didn't have any bf-problems with my baby, but should I not be so lucky when number two comes along I hope I'll be even just half as brave and determined as you are. I really wish you and your baby all the best and good luck with solving those problems.

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