Just wondering...What is the most ridiculous, annoying, or ignorant thing that somebody has said to you about breastfeeding?

Amanda - posted on 01/18/2009

"Can you do that in the bathroom, I am trying to eat here"

I responded with "Can you go chew your food in the bathroom, Joyce is trying to drink her lunch here"

Next time she says that to you child, respond back to your child, "Good thing its mommys milk and not that man made stuff cause it sure would be a big icky mess then!" Then just smile.

Amanda - posted on 01/18/2009

"Can you do that in the bathroom, I am trying to eat here"

I responded with "Can you go chew your food in the bathroom, Joyce is trying to drink her lunch here"

Next time she says that to you child, respond back to your child, "Good thing its mommys milk and not that man made stuff cause it sure would be a big icky mess then!" Then just smile.

Kristy - posted on 01/18/2009

I was pretty fortunate that I only ever had one person comment on when I was going to stop BF. It was at a family gathering at my DH aunts house. I even left the room, to find a quiet spot to BF. She came in asked how much longer I was going to BF. I responded with "Until she and I are ready to stop." I chalk it up to pure ignorance. I think no matter what you are doing, someone has some parenting advice they wish to impart.

Debbie - posted on 11/22/2008

I go to a Mom and Baby fitness class at a local gym and the room is free for 45 min after our class so we are encouraged to stick around and change baies, feed them or what ever. Last week I looked around the room after class and out of 15 babies 13 of them were latched on bf'ing after class. I was pretty impressed. The nice thing is that since everyone is so comfortable most people don't even bother with a blanket or a cover unless they have a nosey baby who gets distracted.

Lorry - posted on 11/22/2008

My mother flew over for the birth and the first week. When my daughter was four days old, I had finished feeding her about 10 minutes before and she was crying again. I said, "are you hungry again already?" and repositioned her. She stopped crying when I did that. My mother had been facing the other direction, and she whipped her head around and had the most horrified look on her face. She saw that I wasn't feeding her, and relaxed, and said, "Thank GOD! I thought you had GIVEN IN!"

Yes, what could possibly be worse than feeding my four-day-old daughter when she's hungry?!

Laura - posted on 11/21/2008

Amanda - I'm so sorry that happened to you. It's hard enough when in-laws and strangers said unsupportive things. I actually gave up breastfeeding my first child after only 6 weeks because my ex-husband was so unsupportive. When our daughter was only 3 days old, I was having a lot of trouble getting her to latch and my ex called me a selfish bad mother and accused me of starving my baby because I refused to give up and feed her formula.



Fortunately, my new husband has been much more supportive. Although I don't think he is completely comfortable when I bf in public. Like on Halloween, I bfed our son while we were sitting on our front porch handing out trick or treat candy. My son was dressed in his dragon costume that had a big hood which covered everything so it just looked like he has fallen asleep in my arms. My husband asked me a few times if I wanted him to get a blanket, but I thought the blanket would make it more obvious so I told him I was fine but then he sat there with this really panic-stricken look on his face until my son finished eating.



I also think my husband is a bit jealous of the bond that the baby has with me and he "blames" it on the bfing. I guess that is probably pretty common and might be why some dads are so gunho on starting solids.

Margareta - posted on 11/21/2008

i have just read some of the replies that are on here and couldnt believe it.

i breastfed my daughter til she was 7 wks old - had to stop as my nipples started bleeding and my son is just over 9 mths old and still being breastfed.

my sister also breastfed her son til he weaned himself off at 10 mths.

the only negative things i have had was 1) that because my son is a heart baby i may not of been able to breastfeed him and might of needed to express so am glad he is able to breastfeed - he has also had 2 open heart surgeries (at 2 days and 5 and half mths) and 2 cathetherisations, had to express while he was in intensive care and high dependency.

the 2nd negative thing was i was breastfeeding in a mcdonalds restaurant and some one looked at me funny but never said anything.

i breastfeed anywhere i go and dont get negative comments - in fact i have had quite a few elderly ladies come to me and congratulate me for bfeeding.



if my son comes off however my bf turns round and tells him hes going to have his milky, he soon goes back on and gives his dad a funny look as though to say it his milk.



society does need to change however as some people are negative about bfeeding when it is the best thing for our babies up until at least a year old, and still good for them after that.

Margareta - posted on 11/21/2008

i got asked why i had a curry while breastfeeding - i said i eat what i want but don't drink, smoke or eat nuts.

Karen - posted on 11/21/2008

Just the other night on the news, a commentator was saying how (about Angelina) "the thought of breastfeeding twins - Ouch!". Breastfeeding does not hurt (after the first few weeks)! And statements like that probably discourage people from the thought of breastfeeding.

Amanda - posted on 11/21/2008

So last night I had to attend a Theatre Board meeting and my husband and mil are in the meeting... well my daughter started getting fussy so i was going to nurse her (and i had a blanket to cover) and my husband quietly asked if i could go feed her in the bathroom?! :*( I left the room but i fed in the hallway... what do you do about your husbands? Mine supports me bfeeding tho i have had issues with him wanting to start solids early.. no help from his mother.. but i guess he's embarrassed when we're out in public.. now im sad

Lisah - posted on 11/21/2008

That's awful!



I haven't dealt with too much. I was visiting my mom's aunts a while back and they were discussing breastfeeding- when they had their kids they were told that formula was best. They commented that they were surprised that breastfeeding is so common now. They weren't doing it in a negative way though, more like "It's weird how times change". When I told them that breastfeeding was best, they said that they knew, as their daughters had told them the same thing when they had their own children.

Tiffany - posted on 11/21/2008

my fiance's mother and granmother had made some comments about my breastfeeding in the beginning. They bottle fed their children so they weren't familiar with breastfeeding. In the beginning my one month old son and I were having a hard time getting the hang of breastfeeding but I was determined to make it work because I did not breastfeed my 18 month old son and had some problems with formula. But because we were having a harder time with breastfeeding my son had lost about a pound after birth. Well babies tend to lose weight after being born and breastfed babies usually lose more tha bottle fed babies. But my fiance's family were like why don't you just give it up. Why don't you have milk? Hasn't your milk come in yet? I got these questions everyday. But I didn't give up and now he's breastfeeding wonderfully! Thing couldn't be better now. He's gained his weight back and more. Just hang in there and know that you are providing the best food you can give your baby!!

Agapi - posted on 11/21/2008

I am really amazed at all the comments that have been made towards women who breastfeed. Can there be that many ignorant people out there? I am a Greek-Canadian who was born and raised in Canada (breastfed too) and am now living in Greece. I breastfeed my son exclusively and I plan on continuing to do so until he is at least a year old. My choice to breastfeed has ALWAYS been admired here and no one has ever made any negative comments, always encouragment. My question is this: We are going to be visiting my parents in Canada for the Christmas holidays and we are planning on being out and about a lot. Do you think anyone is going to say anything to us if I feed him in public? I am sure as heck not going to feed my little boy in a public bathroom. I think that is disgusting. I am always as discrete as possible, making sure to cover my breast so that no one sees. What do you think?

DD - posted on 11/21/2008

Oh I love the sounds from a Bfing baby. MMMM. Awww. I was telling my Dad about some of the comments made to Bfing moms and he was floored. He just couldn't believe someone would be that ignorant about milk made especially for the baby. Go dad!!!

Jennifer - posted on 11/20/2008

I have a baseball style t-shirt that I love to wear. It has a rather busty young woman (think beermaid) holding milk bottles and it says "fresh milk daily." HEHEHEHE.... I get the strangest looks when I wear it in public. I do it on purpose. :-D

Kristen - posted on 11/20/2008

Oh! the poop thing! My daughter got kicked out of the nursery at church because they said she had diarrhea! She didn't it was a regular loose stool like an early breast-fed baby (she was 2 mths!) the problem at the church is that most all the nursing moms keep their kids with them in church. And the formulas babies are all in the nursery. mine loved to "talk" while she ate or say "mmmmm!" So it was easier at church to take a pumped bottle and have her in the nursery. I tried to explain but they said no she has diarrhea and it's our policy. thy explaining an older, well meaning, woman who formula fed her own babies and cares for other formula fed kiddos. their stool looks and smells different. She wasn't sick!

Emily - posted on 11/20/2008

Also, your mother-in-law is critical and ignorant... and she obviously has some major hang-ups! for her to say to the baby, "did that milk taste bad, poor baby"? is ridiculous... next time she says that you should ask her if she wants to try it... and see how sweet and delicious breastmilk actually is... then pour her a glass of Horchata... tastes alot like BM.... maybe that will push her over the edge and she'll leave you both alone!!!! Your milk and ALL MOTHERS' MILK is the tastiest thing a baby could eat... period..

Emily - posted on 11/20/2008

Once, i was nursing in public at the beach, and a drunken-hobo type person came right in my face and said, "ME NEXT!"

Alison - posted on 11/20/2008

OMG...I got that all that time and it would drive me nuts. My daughter is almost 6 months and the first breastfed baby on both sides. In the beginning, I'd get "my baby didn't eat that often" or "my baby didn't poop like that." I'd say "that's because your baby was a formula fed baby and mine is a breastfed baby." Or I'd hear "that's gross" and I'd reply "have you ever tasted formula, now that's gross." My 15-year old niece would say "you better not do that around me" and I'd say "then leave the room." The best was when I started her on cereal and pumped for the milk to make the cereal and my sister-in-law said "have you ever thought about using formula to make the cereal?" I looked at her like she was crazy and said "why would I buy formula when I have the liquid gold right here for free." The problem is that when people aren't around it they just don't understand. Luckily its been almost 6 months now and its nothing to them now (as far as I can tell).

Amanda - posted on 11/20/2008

YES! The topic is reopened!!!! ahhahahahaha!

Alyssa - posted on 11/20/2008

I can't believe the comments that come from people when you are breastfeeding. I am a one hundred percent supporter of breastfeeding. I breastfed my two daughters each for 2 yrs. I was in the mall sitting on a bench feeding and the janitor asked me to move to the family bathroom on the other side of the mall. I just told him I was fine where I was. I am the only breastfeeding mom out of many siblings in my family and I just don't understand how some people could say that it is gross or they don't want a baby feeding off them. I don't get it. I loved breastfeeding and I never let anyone tell me where or when I should feed.

Kristen - posted on 11/16/2008

Laura! That is awesome! That was a great idea to let her tag along. she just needed to see and experience how normal it is. Sometimes when we get outside of our little bubble world we see...oh wow it's a whole "different" world out there and it's not half bad. my MIL is the same in that way. She really criticizes my SIL (she is from Mexico and is also deaf). She has a lot of different customs and is also harder to communicate with. Its to SIL benefit that she can't communicate with MIL so much (SIL is married to my husband's brother). The current topic right now is how SIL is potty training her 2 & 3 yr old. Unfortunalte I have to hear about everything. I have to be careful not to agree or be too disagreeable, but she will ask me baited questions to get my opinion on something. Usually I'll have some strong opinion and then she'll say well Luisa (SIL) does it the opposite way, don't you thnk that's just aweful and then I'm sucked it! UGH!! She is a wonderful mother and does things her way for the best of her kids. Just because I wouldn't do it that way doesn't make her a bad mom or person. It drives me crazy!

**BTW I was laughing so hard at your elephant comment I woke up my daughter..haha! Kayla I think I would have just made a weird face and laughed hard. It is just silly of them to think that way.

****OH! I forgot about nicknames...With our first child my husband went to a breast feeding class with me and learned about milk ducts. So after that he kept referring to them as MILK DUDS. It was funny at first and maybe at home but out in public it was embarrassing. I asked him not to with our second and now I get the occasional MILK JUGS comment! Even worse! He means it in an endearing way but I just don't like it. (I have to say he has always been very supportive of BF, he's just a bit of a card and doesn't have much of an "inner monologue! LOL)

Amy - posted on 11/16/2008

I just hate it when I get to refered to as a milk tanker!

Sonya - posted on 11/16/2008

oh wow, i feel awful that so many of you have to deal with the difficult in laws and busy bodies. i have to say i'm blessed with a marvelous mother-in-law who is totally supportive of BF and even glows with pride when she sees how happy my baby gets when my baby hears the nursing bra "click" when i get ready to feed her. I've yet to really venture out in public with feeding, but i've been practicing with a sling and hope to start feeding out of the safety of home soon. i find it unbelievable that so many people are uneducated and "grossed" out by BF. it's really hurtful and prejudice. you're doing the best thing for your baby and people are critical of it - perhaps those people should do a little online research before they start giving out advice. so far i've only have positive experiences and hope to BF for as long as my little one wants to. good for all of you for ignoring all those comments and doing what nature/god designed your body to do!

User - posted on 11/16/2008

Just yesterday someone said...."Oh God, you're still doing THAT, honey? Aren't you tired of it and isn't he a little big for that?" Stupid strangers....

Laura - posted on 11/15/2008

Kayla - lol. By your MIL's logic, kids would do best on elephant milk - I mean elephants are even bigger than cows!

Kayla - posted on 11/15/2008

I get so many "it's a wonder my children are still alive" comments from my in laws. It's so annoying. Funnyish story though, the other day my husband's parents invited my son and I out to lunch with them while my husband was at work. I was really nervous about having lunch alone with them, but I did it anyway. It went pretty well, and there weren't too many comments about breastfeeding, except at the end of the meal. At lunch time lately I've been pumping and giving my son his milk in a sippy cup because he's kind of squirmy at lunch time and doesn't want to nurse. Well, I was helping him with his cup, and my father in law said, "I thought he couldn't have milk until he was one." And I said, "This is my milk. He can't have cow's milk until he's one." And my mother in law got all excited and was said "Yay! So he'll gain a bunch of weight soon then." My son's birthday is this Monday. I was really confused and said "I don't know that cow's milk is that much fattier than human milk, and he's gaining weight just fine." And then she replied "Well cows DO get a lot bigger than humans, so their milk must be better." Yeah...It was weird, and I didn't know what to say after that, so I didn't say anything, which probably made her think that she had "won the arguement" or something, but whatever. I think she thinks that since he "can" drink cow's milk at a year that I'm automatically weaning him right then. Man, will she be surprised...

Laura - posted on 11/15/2008

Hi Ladies...I just wanted to share an update. My MIL has been staying with us this week and today I took her with me while I went to help a friend prepare some food for a party. My friend is also breastfeeding her son who is 6 hours younger than my little guy. This friend has been a great inspiration in helping me to have the courage and confidence to breastfeed in public. She is very confident and open about everything - especially breastfeeding which is to say that there was no going to hide in the other room while our kids were nursing so basically MIL spent the day in pressence of two breastfeeding mums. I was a bit nervous about how she might react but funny thing was, she didn't seem to mind. In fact, at one point she made a comment that bfing seems to be much easier than bottlefeeding. Not sure what exactly happened and I'm not going to think that this will be the end of the silly/rude comments, but maybe hanging out with us today helped my MIL realize that bfing is a "normal" and natural choice and not just some plot I have hatched to keep the baby all to myself.



Lauri - MIL is over 70 years old and was born and raised in Europe so honestly her attitude about bfing (and circumcision) kind of surprised me. Of course she had both of her babies here in the US during the era when doctors sold new mums on the myth that formula is better than breast so I think it kind of comes down to that generational divide -where the older generation takes it as a personal insult if the younger generation makes different choices. Even my own mother, who is usually extremely supportive makes the occcassional comment about how it's a wonder I survived since she did so many things "wrong" and I have to remind her that she did what she thought was best based on the knowledge available at the time. I'm sure someday, if I get to be a grandmother, my own daughter will be doing things differently because new research will help us learn even more about how to protect our children's health and safety.

Suzie - posted on 11/15/2008

my MIL thought it'd be great if I got my son to take a bottle just so she could babysit!!!! my breasts didn't cooperate with pumping:( so she wanted to give him formula!!!! let's just say, that didn't happen. i think people are just so insenstive a lot of the time. or the looks i'd get when my son nursed round the clock and i'd be grocery shopping, with my son under my smock.

Lauri - posted on 11/14/2008

When my 17 yo was a baby there was a guy in our group of friends that would always tease me and say things like "here comes the milk wagon". One day he said that at a full house superbowl party which embarrassed me (once again).



This time I just smiled at him and said as sweet as I could, "God did not give women breasts to make fools out of men.... it just turned out that way!"



When I was pregnant with my 4 yo my (new) husband's book keeper would brag to me that her kids were on solids by 3 months - which horrifies me for many reasons the least of which is the food allergy element - so I didn't want to discuss this with her because 1) she was very opinionated and 2) we would never change each other's minds. When my son was 6 months old she said to me, "Don't you think he's a little big to be nursing?" It was an ignorant question on so many levels. I just said no and left it at that. But every time I saw her she brought up the subject. Finally my husband told me to tell her how long I nursed my 17 yo... I guess that let her know that she was not going to convince me to stop nurturing my child the best way I see fit.



I have always nursed in public, they've never liked being covered with a blanket but I still do it discretely.



Laura, for whatever reason you MIL may need to believe that there is a possibility that nursing is wrong. The American culture has such a twisted view on women and their bodies a long with sexuality. Many people believe that breasts are a sexual organ... they aren't even an errogenous zone really. Yes, it feels good to be fondled in a loving manner... but being kissed on the backs of my knees or on the side of my hip is more of a turn on for me.



Because our society has over sexualized breasts and are ignorant to the importance of BFing some people are very uncomfortable with it. I think the US is the only country that has this problem.



You may try asking her if there's a specific reason she's uncomfortable with the manner in which you nurture your child. This gives her the opportunity to look at herself on her own terms.

Shaunna - posted on 11/14/2008

Wow... I haven't read any of the other replies yet in this thread, but I have to just say that I hate your mother-in-law! :) Fortunately, I haven't had that experience. I just get the "oh, you're still nursing?" comments from those that seem surprised that I would still be breastfeeding my nine month old. I guess they can just keep on being surprised until he's two years old!

Beth - posted on 11/13/2008

My MIL is bothered by the fact that my kids are "stuck" to me because of breastfeeding. She wanted to keep my daughter overnight(just as a "slumber party") as early as 6 months old. I would have not let her out of my sight at that age anyway! She also competes for my kids attention, so when I have to take them away from her to feed them, she gets annoyed. I actually started feeding them in my bedroom when she visits to avoid her disapproving looks.

Katie - posted on 11/13/2008

Kari - I couldn't agree more. And I totally hated my breasts when they were just filling the sexual objects role. Now, since I have been breastfeeding, I think my boobs are the coolest! LOL. I really do! They have a purpose (they're not just something men stare at) and an awesome purpose at that.

Kari - posted on 11/13/2008

I am laughing so hard at some of these comments! Luckily, I have a wonderful MIL who always supported me breastfeeding. As far as all the negative feelings about it, I think it just comes down to the fact that in our society, breasts are seen as sexual objects. So, I think people naturally associate anything related to sex as "bad" or uncouth. It is stupid, but that is just the way it is. But, let me tell you, I am SO PROUD of my breasts for what they do for my baby, that I will gladly tell anyone!! Maybe if we all start proudly telling people how great our breastfed babies are, people will start to listen! (Here's to hoping!)

Shay - posted on 11/13/2008

My first son's six week growth spurt was traumatic for me as my relatives live 3 hours away and he was really fussy. My MIL kept saying, maybe he needs a little formula. That was the last thing I needed to hear sine it wasnt an option and I just needed support at that time. Now I am breastfeeding my second son and that "piece of advice" wasnt mentioned again

Rebecca - posted on 11/13/2008

Wow! It is nice to know I'm not alone! My "favorite" story is when my husband's relative walked into the living room where I was breastfeeding discreetly (although not with a blanket) and pretty much shouted and ran out of the room. He later expressed regret at having walked in on the "porn". . . I am still offended that he called it that! I know he was just embarrassed, but COME ON. Me feeding my innocent little baby is porn? Grow up and learn that breasts are more than a sex object!

Jessica - posted on 11/13/2008

here is the thought for bfed babies vs. formula feed babies: for people who don't seem to understand we never run out and we don't have to worry about having to run to the store to buy some. milk is with us no matter where we are at...lol

Lisa - posted on 11/13/2008

My friends husband had the nerve to accuse me of being a bad mother because I couldn't be bothered getting out of bed to warm a bottle I couldn't even respond to him i was so shocked that he was so shallow minded. Given, it's a nice advantage not having to deal with bottles but the benefits to my kids sold me.

I was told by my health visitor lately that the growth charts aren't designed for breast fed babies because they are naturally smaller so it's unfair that they worry us when it's perfectly healthy.

Amber - posted on 11/13/2008

My boss just had a baby too and one of our coworkers asked if she would be breastfeeding and she said "I'm not a cow!" As if breastfeeding is abnormal. It's natural...I will never understand.

Lubna - posted on 11/12/2008

same here....they make me feel that my milk is not enough and my baby is not growing well...but i'm still nursing without formula but sometimes i need support :s

Beth - posted on 11/12/2008

Also-this 2nd time around I bought a nursing shawl from Bebe Au Lait. They call them Hooter Hiders (too cute). It is really great because it is open at the top so you can still see the baby without showing EVERYTHING else! I have used it in public quite a lot and most people don't even know what I am doing. My husband always had a phobia of me nursing in public with our first and just covering her with a blanket because it was so easy for her to kick it off and so hard for me to recover. This time he doesn't mind at all because the Hooter Hider does such a wonderful job!

Beth - posted on 11/12/2008

I have an almost 3 year old and a 3 month old. I took the 3 month old with me to my Garden Club meeting, since I am nursing him. We had a lady come to do a program for us from a florist shop. I sat in the back and started nursing. During a lull in the program the lady doing the program said, "Wow! Someone is hungry! He sure is enjoying himself isn't he?" I could have melted into the floor as all heads turned my way!

Emily - posted on 11/12/2008

my mother never bf'd any of us, but has TONS of advice as well. I have two tiny little ones, my first is 2.5 (almost) and weighs less than 30lbs. My daughter is just about 3 months old and weighs in around 10lbs... but they've always eaten well, and my son eats more than me at times. My mother has always said " if you supplimented with formula, you wouldn't have that problem" .... " formula is great for babies, it helps them grow" .....blah blah blah. I did suppliment my son with formula on doctors direction, but he didn't gain what the doc said he would- so I just remind her of that. and I've told told her time and time again that I am not formula feeding my children, that breastmilk i sthe best thing out there for them and if it makes her uncomfortable, she will have to leave the room.

Kate - posted on 11/12/2008

I just love reading all of your comments!!! I guess I am lucky that both my mom & MIL are fully supportive of breastfeeding!!! For those of you with issues...maybe you could invite your MIL to a La Leche League meeting in your area...ours is once a month...I only go every few months but it is nice to have reassurance that I am doing the best thing for my baby. Also the other mothers could help you slap around your crazy
MILs if they say anything about it!!! Also...now I am a Bill Maher hater after reading what he said!!! Go moms go!!!! And...yes the most annoying thing is when people ask when I'm going to stop!!! My daughter just turned 1 and they all expect me to quit just because she's 1...I don't listen to them...& you shouldn't either...but it is highly annoying!!!!

Jessica - posted on 11/12/2008

No to be rude with beast feeding.. since i was a frist time mom nursing (my son is 2 now and having another on the way) i did nursed my son however in the bathroom in public areas. i was uncomfortable to nurse him in the open. also i didn't have a blanket to cover my son. i just felt awkward to exposed my self in the open. i nursed him until he was 16 months old. i think this time i'll be a little more confident in nursing in the open.

Daphne - posted on 11/12/2008

My husband and I went to dinner and my daughter wanted to eat too. So I discreetly nursed her. Someone came over and "suggested" I do that in the bathroom. My husband then suggested they eat their meal in the bathroom. They walked away surprised. He is my knight in shining armor. though my dad has trouble with the idea, mostly because he still she me as a little girl.

Kristen - posted on 11/11/2008

We have milk banks here. The one i know about though is for giving it to mom's of preemies or other such issues and need the milk. I think they also use it in the NICU in the attached Hospital. I'm told (by a girl who donated) that you have to monitor your diet specifically (kids who could be allergic to other things like cow milk in your system, etc other than just for gassy foods) and I think she said there may be other restrictions. P.S. i live in the Dallas/Ft Worth Texas area

Jessica - posted on 11/11/2008

that so mean and sexist, i don't think bf a girl will turn her to a lesbo.

Barbara - posted on 11/11/2008

Do any of you have a milk bank in your area? I wanted to donate but waited too long. I think that's a great alternative to formula for women who can't BF.

I had a friend who said she would BF a boy but not a girl. I asked her why, and she very seriously said "because I wouldn't want to turn her into a lesbian." I thought that was HILARIOUS!

Emily - posted on 11/11/2008

Jessica;
you should read what Dr. Newman has to say about anti-depressants and breastfeeding - his thinking is exactly in line with yours. He says (in short) that while it's true we don't know what effect small amounts of anti-depressants have on babies, we DO know what the risks of formula feeding are and they're substantial! He also suggests some anti-depressants that don't transfer to the milk as much.