Miracle book - just wanted to share with you all

Leanisha - posted on 07/10/2009

Quoting T:

Quoting Erin:

I just want to say that I have read 0 books on parenting, and my 9 month old is growing and learning beautifully! I breastfed her for 6 over six months and now she eats and sleeps great, just by following my instincts. I'm not saying that you shouldn't read parenting books, just that you shouldn't knock people for the way they parent - whether you agree with it or not. Stephanie and Molly - thanks for recommending books that you have read, have liked, and have worked for you! Like someone said before, all it takes is a little common sense to know whether something is working for your child or not. I fed my baby whenever she was hungry (which was never more than once an hour) - but I'm not a scheduled person and I know that for some people schedules work, and your baby is NOT going to starve to death in 3 hours! I DO have a degree in biology, and I AM aware of breastfeeding physiology (as are most lactation consultants which is what makes them lactation consultants) If you feed your baby every 3 hours, that is what your milk letdown will adjust to so I'd say its ok! Now I have spoken my peace, so like it or not, that's what I have to say!

I agree with this...I am a new mom and haven't read much other than talking with other moms here and there.  Instinct has really guided me so far.  I know that it is important and helpful to try and establish some sort of nursing schedule.  To me, it seems to help my child feel more secure and relaxed enough to actually sleep longer times at night.  If the debate is about scheduling techniques these books are suggesting then I guess its not really worth arguing about.  You have to work out a schedule that works for both baby and mom...that's all.  BUT there should be a schedule established before bedtime...like...playtime, read a book, bath, and nurse.  That's typically my schedule thus far and at only 2 mos, my daugther sleeps at least a good 5-6 hour stretch at night which works for me.  She wakes up at sunrise for a feed and then passes back out for another 3 hours which completely works for me.  I think establishing a schedule helps the child get more relaxed because they know what to expect, helps mom anticipate ME time, and also helps baby know the difference in times of the day...ie. nighttime vs. daytime.  During the day, I kind of let baby dictate her own eating schedule, nap but then I start to prep her for MY schedule early eve...seems to work so far.  I am just hoping she sleeps longer and longer as she needs less feedings...

I totally agree with you. Reading books only makes mothers second guest themselves. I HAD a friend that was always you need to research this you need to read that. And that was freakin annoying! Our mothers rasied us without all thses books tellin them what to do and I am pretty sure every mother on here is just fine. Books work from some people and not for others. They are not to be used as The Bibles of parenting. Follow your heart and your guts. And most follow your baby!! It is all about them anyway right!!!! Plus who has time to read a book when you have kids to take care of!!!!

Gabrielle - posted on 07/08/2009

I don't care to engage in the mean-spirited debate, but I do have a few comments about the actual question, and I've actually read both of the books being discussed.



Tara: My solution was to read while breastfeeding!! My little one used to nurse for an hour or longer in those early days, which was a great chance to read.



Stephanie: Thanks for the book suggestion (despite all the drama it caused!). I loved the Baby Whisperer!



To Everyone: If you haven't read the Baby Whisperer yet, and you're looking for a solution to sleep problems, it's a great resource! If you're not looking for a solution, then don't worry about the solutions that others use to get their babies to sleep through the night!! My daughter began sleeping through the night consistently at 3 weeks (5-6 hours), then moved to 7-8 hours at 2 months, and 11-12 hours at 3 months. I used a combination of BabyWise, the Baby Whisperer, and my own common sense. And yes, she is exclusively breastfed. I did not introduce cereal until a week ago, after she'd hit 6 months. She's incredibly healthy and has a happy demeanor. We can go days without any crying at our house.



Just to clarify any confusion, Tracy Hogg (the author) does NOT advocate Cry It Out methods! However, she's not extremely pro-breastfeeding, but has a "whatever works for you" attitude when it comes to feeding your baby. This is an area where I read it, but used my own intelligence to weed out what I disagreed with. I did the same with BabyWise. I disagree with the authors on several points, including the introduction of solid foods. However, to clear up any confusion on BW, the book's recommendation for those early weeks is to turn the clock towards the wall and not even look at it. Feed your baby on demand at that point.



I, however, have found that the EASY routine in both books is very helpful (Eat Awake Sleep You time). Many women cannot continue breastfeeding because they feel very tied down. First of all, I feel that it's a very short time in your life, and well worth the sacrifice. Secondly, a schedule can help prevent these feelings. I know when my baby needs to eat, therefore I can run errands and go where I need to go, within reason. The primary purpose of a schedule is to recognize your child's needs, as Tracy Hogg points out. If any of you have ever fed your baby when she cried, only to discover she was really only tired, you know the frustration that comes with "guessing." Because my child is on a schedule, I don't guess--I know. In the early weeks, she ate every couple of hours, but I let her determine the schedule and routine. After that, I created a loose schedule, based on her natural biorhythms, and she ate only every three hours. Then suddenly, she'd eat sooner, and I'd think "oh no, this isn't her schedule!" but I fed her anyway. Lo and behold, it was a growth spurt. This is where parental intelligence chimes in, and both BabyWise and Tracy Hogg discuss this combination of factors.



And I'm repeatedly told how unbelievably happy my child is, all the time. Relatives call her the no cry baby.



If, however, you disagree with me on schedules, BabyWise, or anything else, that's fine. Just keep in mind that schedules are the saving grace of many parents, and if someone, like Stephanie, desperately needs something to get some consecutive sleep, then let her find a resource to help her. Those of us who are on a schedule won't insult you if you disagree with us...we'll just smile and enjoy our uninterrupted nighttime sleep.

Molly - posted on 07/08/2009

Quoting Tara:

I am a new first time mother....doing it alone, and I have the book babywise....but I can't find time to read it!!! My daughter is 6 weeks old....what does babywise recommend, in short? You aren't the first person who has recommended it to me.

Tara,
Here is the short version....  Find a 2 1/2 to 3 hour feeding schedule that works for you.  Can go 15-30 minutes either way if need to feed earlier or later w/o affecting the schedule.  Stick to it by starting the babies morning at the same time every day.  Then throughout the day, you need to feed, have wake time and then nap.  Wake time 30-40 minutes if you can make it.  Then at bedtime, feed and put right down for bed.  Its really about consistency so the baby will learn what to expect and also learn the difference between day and night.   This is just the basics, try to squeeze some reading time in when you can.  I had trouble finding time reading it the 2nd time around and would try to squeeze in a chapter a day.  Good luck!

Shana - posted on 07/08/2009

Yes Elzette I agree...each baby is different! I did use Sleep Sense with success but I also modified it to suit Lena bc going in and picking her up or shushing her did not work she caught on to it and would not stop crying until we went in...so like you said do what works and of course no parent is going to starve their child or follow a book to the tee if it seems to compromise babies health or well being. In terms of feeding to me the baby is the best judge of how much is enough but at the same time you have to use logic and figure out when it is hunger (during the day, growth spurts etc) and when it is just a learned habit (dream feeds, that 1am feed that goes on for months). I used to feed Lena every hour for almost 40 mins (so it was like every 15 mins) but that was in her first 8 weeks and she was also suffereing from gas and the sucking helped her). Now at 7.5 months and a very healthy 23 lbs and 29inches she nurses approx every 3-4 hours and is eating solids 1-3 times a day (again I let her lead that b/c some days she is just not into the solids). I do not think that feeding her on this flexible schedule has harmed her in any way as she is a bright and healthy baby meeting all her milestones and is very alert and happy! I think that the bottom line is that you must do what works for you and your baby. Do not judge others but support women who have taken on the task of motherhood. If you feed every hour or every 3, if you use a sleep training book or not...give advice when asked for but do not judge or reprimand when someone does not follow your way of parenting...too often women cut each other down...we need to be there for each other...come on...where is the LOVE???

Elzette - posted on 07/08/2009

Hi molly - WOW im shocked at the reaction you are getting here - this is suppose to be a place to help one another. Im a mom of 3 and ive never read any of these books - and don't really care if they good or bad - each child is so different - all 3 of mine is so very different - What works for the one does not necessary work for the other - If you are desperate you will try anything until it works for you. Enjoy your babies - give the mom's here credit - we are all having our up and down days

Shana - posted on 07/08/2009

didnt read all the posts but read most. A great book is sleep sense. Does not even talk about breast or bottle so that is good! But it does teach you how to teach baby to put themselves to sleep! it is wonderful, talks about routine and gives concrete examples which i found other books lacked bc as a new parent theory wasnt helping me I needed examples! We started trainging Lena at 2.5 months and she was sleeping better in 2 nights and sleeping through the night (12 hours) by 3.5 months. I myself bf and she is thriving and healthy she weighs 23 lbs at 7.5 months and loves to nurse! Anyway, if you are looking for a sleep training book I recommend SLEEP SENSE it has worked for every single person i have given it to as well as the people before me who recommended it to me!

Molly - posted on 07/08/2009

Quoting Kristin :

Quoting Lisa:

Yes, Molly, I was referring to Babywise. The man is a pastor. He has no business writing on the biology of breastfeeding. And just because YOU may tailor it to your needs does not mean another unsuspecting mother won't. The book has been revised numerous times in a very short amount of time because of the health ramifications.

You don't need to get defensive. I'm just giving out facts- it should make one reconsider when a major health organization advises against it.

And since you say you're educated- well, then you should be aware of the biology of how breastfeeding works, and that the normal course is short frequent feedings of 3-4 times an hour, not a feeding every three to four hours. My own eight month old has never gone more than an hour without nursing. She typically nurses three times an hour, as did my first when she was nursing.

You should probably get your infant biology and nutrition advice from someone who has a background in it rather than a fundamentalist preacher.

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detfreq.ht...

 

I've never heard of breastfeeding 3 times in an hour as healthy for an 8 month old. These websites you have provided are not certified by the AAP...this is just some research that has been done. The AAP says that newborns might feed every hour, but I think after three or four months, EXCEPT during growth spurts, they don't need that. The Babywise concept is just a little bit of logic. You shou;dn't be feeding your baby 3 times in an hour; this wears you out and it does affect your milk supply if you are tired. Have you started your baby on solids? The AAP says that they need this by 6 months and if your baby is on solids, they shouldn't be eating this much in a day or waking up in the middle of the night. I feed my 4 1/2 month old baby on a FLEXIBLE 3 hour schedule and she naps very well and sleeps 11 hous at night unless she is going through a growth spurt. She is growing very well and I have had no problems.  Babies don't starve on babywise, because the book says if your baby is hungry before the 3 hour mark you should definitely feed them. If you feed your baby 3 times in an hour, obviously the baby is not getting a proper amount of milk and is therefore hungry all the time. 

 

://www.aap.org/breastfeeding/faqsBreastfeeding.html

 

Thank you Kristin!  Finally someone with some sense.  I was beginning to think I should read Babywise again and figure out what all of the fuss was about.  I've read it and followed it twice and have had great results.  My 4 1/2 month old sleeps and eats about the same as yours.  Thank you for sharing your success!

 

Kristin - posted on 07/08/2009

Quoting Lisa:

Yes, Molly, I was referring to Babywise. The man is a pastor. He has no business writing on the biology of breastfeeding. And just because YOU may tailor it to your needs does not mean another unsuspecting mother won't. The book has been revised numerous times in a very short amount of time because of the health ramifications.

You don't need to get defensive. I'm just giving out facts- it should make one reconsider when a major health organization advises against it.

And since you say you're educated- well, then you should be aware of the biology of how breastfeeding works, and that the normal course is short frequent feedings of 3-4 times an hour, not a feeding every three to four hours. My own eight month old has never gone more than an hour without nursing. She typically nurses three times an hour, as did my first when she was nursing.

You should probably get your infant biology and nutrition advice from someone who has a background in it rather than a fundamentalist preacher.

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detfreq.ht...

 

I've never heard of breastfeeding 3 times in an hour as healthy for an 8 month old. These websites you have provided are not certified by the AAP...this is just some research that has been done. The AAP says that newborns might feed every hour, but I think after three or four months, EXCEPT during growth spurts, they don't need that. The Babywise concept is just a little bit of logic. You shou;dn't be feeding your baby 3 times in an hour; this wears you out and it does affect your milk supply if you are tired. Have you started your baby on solids? The AAP says that they need this by 6 months and if your baby is on solids, they shouldn't be eating this much in a day or waking up in the middle of the night. I feed my 4 1/2 month old baby on a FLEXIBLE 3 hour schedule and she naps very well and sleeps 11 hous at night unless she is going through a growth spurt. She is growing very well and I have had no problems.  Babies don't starve on babywise, because the book says if your baby is hungry before the 3 hour mark you should definitely feed them. If you feed your baby 3 times in an hour, obviously the baby is not getting a proper amount of milk and is therefore hungry all the time. 

 

://www.aap.org/breastfeeding/faqsBreastfeeding.html

Kat - posted on 07/08/2009

Quoting Lisa:

Quoting Katrice:

I'd been told that feeds with less than a gap of three hours would result in short "snack" feeds which would only allow him to take in the foremilk, not the fatty hindmilk. - This is absolutley correct. Snack feeding can also cause sleep issues later on. But not every style works for every child. I personally took on a couple of tactics. One was Babywise, the other was a Midwife who I connected with & gave advice that suited me & my family. My daughter is an amazing sleeper & she is an amazing eater. She is 9 months & I am still breast feeding. My success won't necessarily be someone else's. Definitely go with your instincts.

Katrice, the info you got was a bit twisted- short feeds of SWITCHING from breast to breast will result in the baby only getting foremilk, resulting in a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. HOWEVER,  short feeds on the SAME breast each time will increase the percentage of hindmilk in the breast.  This is how it works during cluster feeding and block feeding- the amount of milk is lower in the breast, but the amount of fatty hindmilk to formilk is greater.

This is actually how most mothers in traditional cultures feed their infants.  Western culture is not the entire world.  I think that we need to look to mothers who have breastfed their infants the same way for millennia.

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detfreq.ht...

 

 

LISA,

It was a cut & paste from a comment made above. I agree with it as is my right to do so. Western Culture is certainly not the entire world. I've done extensive travel & have found this out for myself. All I suggest is people do what works for them, not what people with passionate ideas expect them to do. I have my way down here, you have your way up there. So be it.

T - posted on 07/07/2009

Quoting Erin:

I just want to say that I have read 0 books on parenting, and my 9 month old is growing and learning beautifully! I breastfed her for 6 over six months and now she eats and sleeps great, just by following my instincts. I'm not saying that you shouldn't read parenting books, just that you shouldn't knock people for the way they parent - whether you agree with it or not. Stephanie and Molly - thanks for recommending books that you have read, have liked, and have worked for you! Like someone said before, all it takes is a little common sense to know whether something is working for your child or not. I fed my baby whenever she was hungry (which was never more than once an hour) - but I'm not a scheduled person and I know that for some people schedules work, and your baby is NOT going to starve to death in 3 hours! I DO have a degree in biology, and I AM aware of breastfeeding physiology (as are most lactation consultants which is what makes them lactation consultants) If you feed your baby every 3 hours, that is what your milk letdown will adjust to so I'd say its ok! Now I have spoken my peace, so like it or not, that's what I have to say!

I agree with this...I am a new mom and haven't read much other than talking with other moms here and there.  Instinct has really guided me so far.  I know that it is important and helpful to try and establish some sort of nursing schedule.  To me, it seems to help my child feel more secure and relaxed enough to actually sleep longer times at night.  If the debate is about scheduling techniques these books are suggesting then I guess its not really worth arguing about.  You have to work out a schedule that works for both baby and mom...that's all.  BUT there should be a schedule established before bedtime...like...playtime, read a book, bath, and nurse.  That's typically my schedule thus far and at only 2 mos, my daugther sleeps at least a good 5-6 hour stretch at night which works for me.  She wakes up at sunrise for a feed and then passes back out for another 3 hours which completely works for me.  I think establishing a schedule helps the child get more relaxed because they know what to expect, helps mom anticipate ME time, and also helps baby know the difference in times of the day...ie. nighttime vs. daytime.  During the day, I kind of let baby dictate her own eating schedule, nap but then I start to prep her for MY schedule early eve...seems to work so far.  I am just hoping she sleeps longer and longer as she needs less feedings...

Tara - posted on 07/07/2009

I am a new first time mother....doing it alone, and I have the book babywise....but I can't find time to read it!!! My daughter is 6 weeks old....what does babywise recommend, in short? You aren't the first person who has recommended it to me.

Britney - posted on 07/07/2009

gee whiz!! i dont like babywise stuff either, but come on ladies. we dont need to JUMP on someone like a pack of wolves just cause they mentioned something we dont agree with.

molly, i think you did well handing all the criticism and are completely entitled to your opinion.

we should be supportive here even in disagreements... not cutting and sarcastic.

Amy - posted on 07/07/2009

I read the baby whisperer book as well and I think it is AMAZING! I stated it at about 4 weeks and before that fed my baby on demand. I didn't go exactly by what she said but used it as a guideline, but when my 4 month old started waking in the middle of the night I did her 4 month routine word for word and it worked great. I highly recommend this book and don't feel that it does anything to promote formula feeding over breastfeeding at all. I exclusively BF my 5 1/2 month old daughter and will be starting on solids soon. I would assume that you woldn't want to start on the 3 hour routine she reccomends at birth if you are to breastfeed because frequent feedings are what establish your supply.

Erin - posted on 07/07/2009

I just want to say that I have read 0 books on parenting, and my 9 month old is growing and learning beautifully! I breastfed her for 6 over six months and now she eats and sleeps great, just by following my instincts. I'm not saying that you shouldn't read parenting books, just that you shouldn't knock people for the way they parent - whether you agree with it or not. Stephanie and Molly - thanks for recommending books that you have read, have liked, and have worked for you! Like someone said before, all it takes is a little common sense to know whether something is working for your child or not. I fed my baby whenever she was hungry (which was never more than once an hour) - but I'm not a scheduled person and I know that for some people schedules work, and your baby is NOT going to starve to death in 3 hours! I DO have a degree in biology, and I AM aware of breastfeeding physiology (as are most lactation consultants which is what makes them lactation consultants) If you feed your baby every 3 hours, that is what your milk letdown will adjust to so I'd say its ok! Now I have spoken my peace, so like it or not, that's what I have to say!

Molly - posted on 07/07/2009

Thank you Marney! Glad to hear something positive!

Marney - posted on 07/07/2009

Quoting Lisa:

Quoting Molly:

Want a great book? Try Babywise! My 4 1/2 month old sleeps 12+ hours at night and takes 3 good naps. Worked with my son too.

Okay, THIS book is bad.  Sorry.  It's been condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics.  It's been the cause of the end of so many breastfeeding relationships, and failure to thrive in infants.

It's written by a pastor who has been disciplined by his church multiple times, his own children have disowned him, and he adds the horrible infant feeding and sleeping advice to another book Growing Kids God's Way to the advice to whip your children with glue sticks in the name of holiness.

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detchristi...

http://www.ezzo.info/

Molly, I am with you on Babywise -- it really worked for my precious baby!  He is an excellent sleeper and is still breastfeeding sucessfully and is 13 months old!  I have read negative reviews of Babywise, but I think that they must be coming from people who have NOT read it.  Maybe the author is an ass, but his method worked for us. 

Teresa - posted on 07/07/2009

Quoting Molly:

Unless I'm missing something no one commenting here is licensed or a trained expert.We are all just moms who have read different books and done our own research. With that said this is all about opinion and I don't feel its fair to tell someone the information they have received is "twisted." There are obviously different views on breastfeeding out there and unless you have an education to back it up please don't discourage anyone else by telling them something they believe is "twisted.."

IMO every single person here is an expert.... on their own children.  Even the 'real' experts are not 100% correct because... EVERY child is different.  MY children who were born at 5lb 4oz and 4lb 11oz WERE on a 3 hour feeding schedule and they did wonderfully.  It is possible and is not twisted.  Doesn't work for every child, but IS a legitimate possibility and should not be bashed in any way shape or form.

Quoting you cuz I agree w/ you. :)

Molly - posted on 07/07/2009

Unless I'm missing something no one commenting here is licensed or a trained expert.We are all just moms who have read different books and done our own research. With that said this is all about opinion and I don't feel its fair to tell someone the information they have received is "twisted." There are obviously different views on breastfeeding out there and unless you have an education to back it up please don't discourage anyone else by telling them something they believe is "twisted.."

Emily - posted on 07/07/2009

Quoting Christy:

Mhairi- Don't be afraid to go by your instincts. I followed my instincts, especially when it came to nursing, with both my children and they are both healthy. I encourage you to look into contacting a local La Leche Leaugue group. The ladies that run the group are generally very knowledgeable in how to nurse effectively and can help if you're having troubles. Some people talk about how opinionated certain groups are, but it is their love for their children that makes them feel so strongly about the importance of nursing. Most importantly though, nursing often during the first 6 weeks is crucial in building up your milk supply.

Molly- why are you taking this so personally. No one accused you of being a bad mother because you liked the book. They are simply trying to point out the downfalls of a potentially misleading reference. Although you consider yourself educated, you do not appear to be an expert in the field and new information is being learned everyday. Also, there may be mothers who are not as "educated" that read the book and use it as a manual, eventually leading to some of the problems these other women are pointing out. For example, a teenager who is having a baby and has no experience with babies, pregnancy, etc. At least as adults who have had babies, we have had the opportunity to gain wisdom and information as well as gained the common sense that these pregnant teens haven't acquired yet. I think it's great that it worked for you, but I also think it's great that these other women are sharing the problems with it. The bottom line is the same techniques are not going to work for everyone, and no one book should be a mothers how-to guide. A conscientious mother will read a variety of books written by a variety of experts, and gain knowledge from as many sources as possible, particularly their ob/gyn and pediatrician. (who also may not be trained in nursing techniques, etc.).

I don't think it was the content that she might have taken personally.  It was the TONE of what was being said to her.  That's how I would have felt if it were me anyway.

Emily - posted on 07/07/2009

Quoting Nicole:

Wow! This is a heated one. As long as we're quoting the AAP, I would like to interject that it recommends that healthy, full-term newborns should breastfeed eight to twelve times in each 24-hour period. This equates to feedings two to three hours apart, which is where I believe that stigma comes from. I think the biggest thing to take away from all of the opinions on this board, as well as the opinions and findings that vary widely across the medical field, is that every baby is different. Some babies may need to nurse every hour whereas others can contently go 2, 3 even 4 hours between feedings. As long as your baby is gaining the appropriate amount of weight, is having adequate amounts of dirty diapers and seems content for the most part, I think you can rest assured that you are feeding him/her the amount and frequency that he/she needs.

Furthermore, I think there is an apparent lack of respect within this conversation that is disheartening for me. I think we need to allow others to state their opinions and thoughts and be supportive whether or not we agree with that person. We're all here to help each other. Ok...I'm off my soapbox now:)

Well said!

Minnie - posted on 07/07/2009

Quoting Katrice:

I'd been told that feeds with less than a gap of three hours would result in short "snack" feeds which would only allow him to take in the foremilk, not the fatty hindmilk. - This is absolutley correct. Snack feeding can also cause sleep issues later on. But not every style works for every child. I personally took on a couple of tactics. One was Babywise, the other was a Midwife who I connected with & gave advice that suited me & my family. My daughter is an amazing sleeper & she is an amazing eater. She is 9 months & I am still breast feeding. My success won't necessarily be someone else's. Definitely go with your instincts.

Katrice, the info you got was a bit twisted- short feeds of SWITCHING from breast to breast will result in the baby only getting foremilk, resulting in a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. HOWEVER,  short feeds on the SAME breast each time will increase the percentage of hindmilk in the breast.  This is how it works during cluster feeding and block feeding- the amount of milk is lower in the breast, but the amount of fatty hindmilk to formilk is greater.

This is actually how most mothers in traditional cultures feed their infants.  Western culture is not the entire world.  I think that we need to look to mothers who have breastfed their infants the same way for millennia.

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detfreq.ht...

Kat - posted on 07/07/2009

I'd been told that feeds with less than a gap of three hours would result in short "snack" feeds which would only allow him to take in the foremilk, not the fatty hindmilk. - This is absolutley correct. Snack feeding can also cause sleep issues later on. But not every style works for every child. I personally took on a couple of tactics. One was Babywise, the other was a Midwife who I connected with & gave advice that suited me & my family. My daughter is an amazing sleeper & she is an amazing eater. She is 9 months & I am still breast feeding. My success won't necessarily be someone else's. Definitely go with your instincts.

Mhairi - posted on 07/07/2009

Thanks guys. After reading all of the posts today we've had a lovely day with lots of feeding - Lauchlan has been heavenly today so he's obviously quite pleased with the change - and hopefully it'll kick my supply back up a little in the next couple of days/weeks too.
I'd been told that feeds with less than a gap of three hours would result in short "snack" feeds which would only allow him to take in the foremilk, not the fatty hindmilk. So when it was put to me it sounded quite reasonable.
Lauchie has gained within the average but on the low side of average - which is not good considering he is quite a long (tall) baby. Hopefully this will get his weight up a little more.
Thanks for the feedback everyone!! xx

Karen - posted on 07/06/2009

I agree with Christy. Holy cow was I clueless and asked/read everything in sight. Some people find comfort in research as I do. However I tune in to my daughter. Sometimes she eats every hour. Sometimes she naps 30 minutes. Sometimes she sleeps 6 hours+ and wakes up to "snack" before sleeping more. Every single day here is different here I just feed on demand. I try to keep her more entertained during the day to encourage more awake time to sleep a little longer at night but if not so be it. And I have a very happy, content 12 weeks old thriving great and hitting all her "published milestones".

Teresa - posted on 07/06/2009

to another book Growing Kids God's Way to the advice to whip your children with glue sticks in the name of holiness.

Wow!  I must have missed that chapter.

Teresa - posted on 07/06/2009

Babywise is an excellent book. No offense meant (no, seriously), but any parent that uses that book properly and has a 'failure to thrive' baby has zero common sense. It works wonderfully... for some babies. I never actually used it since I didn't get a chance to read it til my twin girls were toddlers and my son wouldn't go for it. ;) But my twin girls were on a 3 hour feeding schedule right from birth and thrived wonderfully. Come meet them. They are 7.5 now and almost as big as I am. Granted I AM tiny, but still....

Christy - posted on 07/06/2009

Btw, I totally agree with Nicole about each baby being different. My daughter slept through the night from the first night she was home from the hospital (approx 6-8 hrs) would nurse shortly then sleep another 3-4 hrs. During the day she nursed every hour or two for up to 30 mins. My son on the other hand, nursed for about 15 mins. about every 1 1/2 - 2 hrs. all day and all night. My daughter wouldn't nurse just after birth, but nursed great from the 2nd feeding until she weaned herself at about 16 months. My son nursed great just after birth but then had latch on problems for the next few weeks. He eventually got the hang of it and nursed until he weaned himself at about 18 mos.



You were fine on your soapbox Nicole. It's great for people to share their opinions but I agree that they don't need to be judgemental about others' opinions or parenting styles or defensive about their own if they come under scrutiny.

Elizabeth - posted on 07/06/2009

article:

http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm

Christy - posted on 07/06/2009

Mhairi- Don't be afraid to go by your instincts. I followed my instincts, especially when it came to nursing, with both my children and they are both healthy. I encourage you to look into contacting a local La Leche Leaugue group. The ladies that run the group are generally very knowledgeable in how to nurse effectively and can help if you're having troubles. Some people talk about how opinionated certain groups are, but it is their love for their children that makes them feel so strongly about the importance of nursing. Most importantly though, nursing often during the first 6 weeks is crucial in building up your milk supply.



Molly- why are you taking this so personally. No one accused you of being a bad mother because you liked the book. They are simply trying to point out the downfalls of a potentially misleading reference. Although you consider yourself educated, you do not appear to be an expert in the field and new information is being learned everyday. Also, there may be mothers who are not as "educated" that read the book and use it as a manual, eventually leading to some of the problems these other women are pointing out. For example, a teenager who is having a baby and has no experience with babies, pregnancy, etc. At least as adults who have had babies, we have had the opportunity to gain wisdom and information as well as gained the common sense that these pregnant teens haven't acquired yet. I think it's great that it worked for you, but I also think it's great that these other women are sharing the problems with it. The bottom line is the same techniques are not going to work for everyone, and no one book should be a mothers how-to guide. A conscientious mother will read a variety of books written by a variety of experts, and gain knowledge from as many sources as possible, particularly their ob/gyn and pediatrician. (who also may not be trained in nursing techniques, etc.).

Brenda - posted on 07/06/2009

Sounds like another craptastic book like Babywise. In my opinion of course. Everyone thinks babies should "sleep through the night" when they are designed to wake and feed, especially breast feeding. Babywise was debunked for not supporting breastfeeding and taking pot shots at La Leche League as well as AP parenting. As an AP parent, this won't be a book I'll look into at all.





Scheculed feedings are a bad idea. Babies grow at different rates. They need more milk at different times. And sometimes they are in pain from growing. Breast milk contains a hormone that reduces pain. So when they wake to feed at night it is because they need pain relief.

Dana - posted on 07/06/2009

I think you did great on top of your soapbox. :)

Nicole - posted on 07/06/2009

Wow! This is a heated one. As long as we're quoting the AAP, I would like to interject that it recommends that healthy, full-term newborns should breastfeed eight to twelve times in each 24-hour period. This equates to feedings two to three hours apart, which is where I believe that stigma comes from. I think the biggest thing to take away from all of the opinions on this board, as well as the opinions and findings that vary widely across the medical field, is that every baby is different. Some babies may need to nurse every hour whereas others can contently go 2, 3 even 4 hours between feedings. As long as your baby is gaining the appropriate amount of weight, is having adequate amounts of dirty diapers and seems content for the most part, I think you can rest assured that you are feeding him/her the amount and frequency that he/she needs.



Furthermore, I think there is an apparent lack of respect within this conversation that is disheartening for me. I think we need to allow others to state their opinions and thoughts and be supportive whether or not we agree with that person. We're all here to help each other. Ok...I'm off my soapbox now:)

Dana - posted on 07/06/2009

Fenugreek totally helps, I'm currently on it.

Shawna - posted on 07/06/2009

Quoting Mhairi:

I'm beginning to think that my diagnosed "oversupply" was actually the perfect supply to cater to hourly feeds - no wonder I was so uncomfortable after 3 hours, and my poor little man!
Now that my (apparent over) supply has slowed can it be brought back up at 3.5 months?

Of course you supply can be brought back up. Nursing more often helps to increase supply. Eating foods such as oatmeal can also bring up your supply. There are also tea's and supplements such as fenugreek that help.http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/index....

Dana - posted on 07/06/2009

Just to be clear, that's all directed at the midwife. Not you Mhairi.

Dana - posted on 07/06/2009

Man that really sucks that someone can give such bad advice, and that it's someone you should be able to fully trust. Yes, your body should always be able to catch up to his demand. Sometimes babies just need a drink. I'd like to ask that midwife to go every 3 hrs between a drink of water or any fluid. When you first have a baby the advice is don't let your baby sleep through feeds or go past 2-3 hrs without food. How does that get misconstrued into "wait for 2-3 hrs" by so many people? Ridiculous!

Mhairi - posted on 07/06/2009

I'm beginning to think that my diagnosed "oversupply" was actually the perfect supply to cater to hourly feeds - no wonder I was so uncomfortable after 3 hours, and my poor little man!
Now that my (apparent over) supply has slowed can it be brought back up at 3.5 months?

Minnie - posted on 07/06/2009

Quoting Mhairi:

Bah! This is so frustrating. I was told by my hospital midwives that it's unhealthy for bub to feed more often than once every 3 hours, so I'd been trying to stretch his feeds out - and feeling terrible about it. Gaaagh! I've said it before by every time I go against my instincts I've regretted it, but as a first time Mum, I've assumed that the midwifes would be the best guides.
They say it takes a community to raise a baby - I'm beginning to think it takes an 'online community' to help the Mum....

That's really sad that midwives gave you that information.  It's utterly wrong.  Do NOT force your infant to hold off on nursing!  Not only does he need to nurse frequently to stimulate your breasts to increase supply, but maintaining an adequate milk supply depends on feedings of at least every two hours to maintain prolactin levels.  And breastfeeding is NOT just about nutrition- it stabilizes equilibrium for your child, regulates breathing, heart rate, blood pressure, comforts, and soothes him. 

Yes, Mhairi, trust your instincts and put your baby to your breast whenever he wants it.  We get a let down of milk when our infants cry for a reason. 

Chelsea - posted on 07/06/2009

FEED THAT BABY ON DEMAND!!!!

Mhairi - posted on 07/06/2009

Bah! This is so frustrating. I was told by my hospital midwives that it's unhealthy for bub to feed more often than once every 3 hours, so I'd been trying to stretch his feeds out - and feeling terrible about it. Gaaagh! I've said it before by every time I go against my instincts I've regretted it, but as a first time Mum, I've assumed that the midwifes would be the best guides.
They say it takes a community to raise a baby - I'm beginning to think it takes an 'online community' to help the Mum....

Marabeth - posted on 07/06/2009

my breastfed newborn ate at least once an hour and now three months later still does when shes awake.

Minnie - posted on 07/06/2009

Quoting Molly:

Wow people.... as I believe I've stated already... I used parts of Babywise to put my baby on a FLEXIBLE schedule for feeding and napping. My nutrition and biology advice that you refer to above came from the lacation consultants at the hospital. Maybe you need to consult one as a 8 month old doesn't need to eat every hour. You either have a milk supply issue or your baby is using you as a pacifier. Even a newborn doesn't eat every hour!!

Obviously Molly you didn't look at the links I provided you with.  Lactation consultants at hospitals are typically not very well versed in the physiology of breastfeeding.  The three hour schedule is not realistic for a breastfed infant.

And no, I have no milk supply issues.  My daughter nurses on average, three minutes, three times an hour.  I think you need to look at the link concerning non-nutritive suckling- breastfeeding is more than nutrition.  Yes, a newborn eats every hour, and any infant who is exclusively breastfed and going through a growth spurt can nurse several times an hour.  Have you never heard of cluster feeding? Boy, how I would feel if someone tried to tell me that I couldn't eat when I was hungry...

And as I myself stated already, just because YOU tailored it to your needs, does not mean ANOTHER mother will.  So it becomes necessary to bring out the problems with that book since we're here on a public forum.  So that women can make informed choices about childcare.

Again, please consider where you are getting your information from.  Are the lactiation consultants at the hospital internationally board certified?  And the book that you are referencing, written by a preacher.  Not a professor of infant nutrition and anthropology.

Molly - posted on 07/06/2009

Wow people.... as I believe I've stated already... I used parts of Babywise to put my baby on a FLEXIBLE schedule for feeding and napping. My nutrition and biology advice that you refer to above came from the lacation consultants at the hospital. Maybe you need to consult one as a 8 month old doesn't need to eat every hour. You either have a milk supply issue or your baby is using you as a pacifier. Even a newborn doesn't eat every hour!!

Nicole - posted on 07/06/2009

Quoting Lisa:

Yes, Molly, I was referring to Babywise. The man is a pastor. He has no business writing on the biology of breastfeeding. And just because YOU may tailor it to your needs does not mean another unsuspecting mother won't. The book has been revised numerous times in a very short amount of time because of the health ramifications.

You don't need to get defensive. I'm just giving out facts- it should make one reconsider when a major health organization advises against it.

And since you say you're educated- well, then you should be aware of the biology of how breastfeeding works, and that the normal course is short frequent feedings of 3-4 times an hour, not a feeding every three to four hours. My own eight month old has never gone more than an hour without nursing. She typically nurses three times an hour, as did my first when she was nursing.

You should probably get your infant biology and nutrition advice from someone who has a background in it rather than a fundamentalist preacher.

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detfreq.ht...

Lisa, THANK YOU for posting all this.  I totally agree, I too have read this book and after having my own son and breastfeeding him for 2.5yrs now I can truly say how absolutely horrible I think this book is.  Especially as you said if unsuspecting, and I am saying uneducated and/or inexperienced mom's were to actually follow it to the letter.  Hopefully most mom's will follow their own instincts and research from many sources, but if not and they only follow this book it could mean real trouble for their poor babies.

Minnie - posted on 07/06/2009

Yes, Molly, I was referring to Babywise. The man is a pastor. He has no business writing on the biology of breastfeeding. And just because YOU may tailor it to your needs does not mean another unsuspecting mother won't. The book has been revised numerous times in a very short amount of time because of the health ramifications.



You don't need to get defensive. I'm just giving out facts- it should make one reconsider when a major health organization advises against it.



And since you say you're educated- well, then you should be aware of the biology of how breastfeeding works, and that the normal course is short frequent feedings of 3-4 times an hour, not a feeding every three to four hours. My own eight month old has never gone more than an hour without nursing. She typically nurses three times an hour, as did my first when she was nursing.



You should probably get your infant biology and nutrition advice from someone who has a background in it rather than a fundamentalist preacher.



http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detsuck.ht...

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detsleepth...

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detfreq.ht...

Shawna - posted on 07/06/2009

Yes I have actually read the babywise books, and took it as a way I was not going to parent.

Molly - posted on 07/06/2009

Have any of you actually read Babywise? Seriously.. its about feeding on a flexible schedule and napping on a schedule. Nothing else... I have 2 thriving children. A healthy normal 3 1/2 yr old who is and has always been a great sleeper and a healthy growing 5 month old. She eats every 3 hours which is the norm for her age group and takes great naps. I read Babywise and took from it what I thought seemed appropriate. My children aren't lacking in anything. But then again I am educated and have common sense of my own. If your baby is peeing, pooping and growing then they are eating enough! Her dr always is happy with her growth so no harm done here. I'm not sure how a baby that eats every 3 hours is failing to thrive. How often do other 5 month olds eat?? Seriously, don't knock it if you haven't even read it. A lot of books about parenting get mixed reviews because everyone has their own parenting views. Parents just need to have common sense of their own. My husband and I haven't had any problems with what we've chosen to follow from the book. I think I'll call this conversation over. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just sharing what has worked for me. I'd follow the book again if I had a 3rd baby. No harm done here.

Stephenie - posted on 07/06/2009

Well, about Tracy Hogg's book, I didn't seem to see that she was recommending formula over breast. I just used her EASY scheduling method and her Pick up/Put down and sh.. pat methods to teach my daughter to go to sleep by herself. Previously she would only sleep if lying on someone else or breastfeeding. She actually stresses not using the "cry it out" method as it breaks trust and emphasizes that you stay with the baby until they are deeply asleep; until they can do it on their own. It worked great for me. She does add that you must tailor it to your child but I felt it was pretty straightforward. She also emphasizes listening to your baby's needs and cues, not a rigorous schedule that is time sensitive. Some of the other stuff I glossed over because I was not having problems with feeding, or anything else but the sleeping methods worked well for me.

Dana - posted on 07/06/2009

I checked out the links. It does sound like a book I wouldn't follow. Not one person knows everything though, so don't feel bad.

Shawna - posted on 07/06/2009

Quoting Molly:

Want a great book? Try Babywise! My 4 1/2 month old sleeps 12+ hours at night and takes 3 good naps. Worked with my son too.

babies - whose parents used this program - have been diagnosed with failure to thrive. Also know that the AAP actually recommends against this type of parenting - which they have never done before or since. Here are some links about the babywise book

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/08...

http://aapnews.aappublications.org/cgi/c...