Tips for Overstimulated/Overtired baby

Nicole - posted on 10/20/2011 ( 50 moms have responded )

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my daughter is 4months old and I thought I was doing everything right, turns out im not, my baby is overtired and overstimulated...I need tips and suggestions on how to get her to nap without a fight, and bedtime. Shes decided she doesnt want me to rock her or hold her to get her to relax or sleep but maybe its because Im not doing it early enough?
Anyone else dealing with this or gone through it PLEASE help me make positive changes for her and us.

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Nicole - posted on 10/24/2011

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Boy I hope so LIZ! I dont know how much of this I can take...and her too. She was sleeping through the night ok for a while 4-5 hours then up every 2-3, but day naps have alwasy been a problem or SHORT 45 min usually the max...mostly 20min naps. I have white noise, a fan, dark room, a routine to say Good night to everything before naps and bed, she just either wakes immediately after laying down or wakes shortly afterwards....

Sylvanne - posted on 08/27/2013

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My little one is a little over 2 1/2 months and she won't nap unless I'm holding her or laying next to her. Her naps only last for 10-30 minutes and she wakes up every 2-3 hours at night. What can I do to get her to nap longer? She is so tired and fussy all the time, it doesn't matter if we are out or home she is the same. I've read the 90 minute sleep solution book and I see her getting tired at about an hour and crying, I can get her to sleep just fine, but she doesn't stay asleep for long. The few times she has slept for over an hour I was sleeping with her, but I can't continue to nap with her that's the time that I do my schoolwork. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Cadie - posted on 11/29/2011

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Nicole, my son is the same way and he's now 11mths old. And when he was about 9 1/2 months I started a routine of the same soothing music every day before his nap times and bedtime. He now knows that is his que for sleep time. He doesn't always like it and we still have our hard days and bedtimes but I have seen an improvement. I also switch his bath time to the night and I try to read to him while rocking about 30 minutes before I start putting him to sleep. Sometimes it's a battle of the wills between us but I have been trying to be consistent in showing him that I'm the boss at bedtime. So, I guess my point is that by creating the ques of sleep time for my son (cause I suck at catching his tired ques as well) has helped.

Rachel - posted on 10/31/2011

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Ok, this is random and my thoughts as they came to me. I hope you can wade through it and find something that helps you. Better yet, I hope by now that you have found some peace with your baby. My baby is 3 years old now, but when she came home she slept very well, then all of a sudden, she got to where she didn't want to sleep. I knew for her that wasn't good. The first thing I tried was the pacifier, which I was totally against. For a little while it worked. During the day, I don't remember her falling asleep at the breast. I gave her the paci and rocked and sang her to sleep. When I put her in her bed, I turned music on for her. She started sleeping in the bassinet at the top of the pack and play and it came with a light/music thing. So, everytime I layed her down, I turned it on. If she lost her paci and woke up, I put the paci back in and turned her music back on. That early, she was ready for a nap every two hours almost on the hour. The first time she woke up in the morning around 6ish, I nursed her back to sleep and she slept til about 8. I usually nursed her when she woke up and then when she was ready to sleep, she would go to sleep. She started getting a little fussy and that's when I knew she wanted to sleep. Then she got to where she wouldn't finish her nap, so I had to find something else that worked. DOCTORS DO NOT RECOMMEND SLEEPING ON THE TUMMY!! I laid her on her tummy and she started finishing her naps again. I figured, it worked for me and my siblings and my parents, why not try it with m daughter. And it worked very well. I can't remember her ages, but I think she slept every 2 hours til she got mobile, then she would skip the middle nap and only have 2 naps. And the nap time routine was sing and rock. She also started fighting me at one point and I learned I had to "pin her down". That sounds worse than it is, I just had to make sure she couldn't move her arms or legs or she'd fight sleep. I was never mean and never hurt her. I think about 2-3 months I introduced cereal. So, at night around 6 or 6:30 I would feed her cereal and give her nurse her or maybe give her a couple of ounces in a bottle depending on if I had pumped any. Then, we got a bath. I always bathed with her because it was easier for me to not feel like I was going to drop her. After bath, we did lotion and got dressed. Then, I read her a book. And I think we nursed at least sometimes and she was asleep by 7 or 7:30. If she woke during the night, I got her and put her in the bed with me and she nursed herself back to sleep. When gettting her back to sleep, I always made sure not to talk to her much, if any, so that she knew it was time to sleep. I know all of my post is very random, I'm thinking as I type, my memory is not long and it's been almost 3 years since she was 4 months old. But once I figured out the getting her to sleep and stay asleep part, (tummy sleep and pacifier), she was a great sleeper. Even when I took the paci away at 9 months. It just took a little more to get her to sleep, I think that's where the holding her arms and legs came in. At 11 months, I started weaning her and by 12 months, she was completely weaned and the last food she was allowed, was at her supper/dinner time at 6. Never a sippy cup or bottle to go to bed. Around the time she turned 2, I was able to get her to go to sleep in her own room, starting with me staying with her at first until she fell asleep and moving to telling her to go to bed and her going to her room by herself. Even at 3 we still have a nighttime routine. Eat, bath, lotion as we have always done from the time she came home. Then I tell her to bring me a book, we read it, then she goes to her room, I go tuck her in and give her kisses, say night prayers (this was something that she fought and when I quit, she asked for again), and then I turn out the light and within a few minutes, she's asleep. I know it's hard when your child doesn't sleep. I have always been a single mom and I know for myself that if I don't get the sleep I need and the alone time I need, I'm not good for my daughter, and that's why I was and am so adamant about her having a good sleep schedule.

Lori - posted on 10/25/2011

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I agree with nursing to sleep. If she'll nurse to sleep - let her. If she wakes 20 minutes later and wants to nurse again, let her. It sounds like even nursing to sleep isn't working real well at the moment, but if it even works sometimes, go with whatever works at the time. That's another "great" thing about a high needs baby. What works for them one time won't necessarily work for them the next time. And believe me I know how frustrating it can be when you're little one just won't sleep - especially when you know she's sooooo tired, and of course you're tired too. As Liz said, there are so many changes going on developmentally, that even a baby who was sleeping well can start night waking again, and not wanting to nap. And it will change back, and then change again.

Try wearing her in a sling or carrier... even if she isn't fussy at the moment. Babies who are "worn" throughout the day cry less than babies who aren't. I find even an hour a day does wonders for my LO.

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Melynda - posted on 09/02/2013

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You know when I get to the point where nothing is working and iam out of ideas i will give my LO a bottle lay her in her bed and put on a baby lala bye cd close the door and let her be. Most of the time she whins down and goes mimi. It gives me a few mins to re boot even if it doesn't get her to sleep. Good luck mommy!

Lori - posted on 08/27/2013

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My LO's were also terrible nappers. My first one would nap longer if I slept next to her, but my 2nd one just wouldn't nap very long. I'm NOT a fan of letting a baby cry it out. I believe babies cry because the NEED us. So... I have just dealt with shorter rest times. Sometimes that means an extra nap during the day. Sometimes it just means less sleep. I can sympathize with wanting to get work done during nap times. I never got much done during nap time since my babies wouldn't sleep more than half an hour to 45 minutes on a good day.

A few things I HAVE learned. Carrying your baby around in a sling or other baby carrier can be helpful. First, your baby may take a nap in the sling and may even stay asleep longer. This might work well if you need to get some house work done, or if you just want to go for a walk or something. Second - even if baby isn't napping in the sling it is comforting to babies to be carried. They will sleep better when they do sleep if they have been held and carried more often during the day.

Also - you mentioned she's getting tired after being up for only an hour. Makes sense since she's taking such short naps. However, have you tried keeping her up an extra half an hour and then putting her down for a nap? Sometimes staying up longer helps... other times it can kick you in the butt because an overtired overstimulated baby can have a harder time falling asleep. It's worth a try though.

Rachel - posted on 11/16/2011

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My baby didn't nap until she was 5 months old! lol, I feel your pain. I remember feeling so frustrated. I tried everything.. rocking her, nursing, singing. My doctor told me to let her cry it out and I just couldn't do it. Finally one day I was at my wits end. My eyes were bloodshot and puffy from no sleep, she was miserable and I just laid her down after one hour of being awake and she cried. I went to her every 5-10 mins and it was HARD. She finally starting sleeping after that. We did awake for one hour, down for how ever long she slept and sometimes that was as short as 15-20mins, but I just kept up with it and now shes 11 months and sleeps 2-3 hours at a time twice daily. I keep her up for 3 hours at a time now. I seriously thought I would NEVER get to this point and my baby was the only baby in the world that would not nap! Don't let her get overtired. Keep her up for an hour and then down even if she doesn't act tired, she is. Good luck!

Nicole - posted on 11/06/2011

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FIGURED IT OUT! Started sleep training her and shes been a completely different baby! She was OVERTIRED as I didnt know what the heck I was doing LOL! Shes now sleeping 11hours at night with one wake up for feeding (and some other wake ups but shes resettling herself) and 3 naps in the day totalling approx 3.5hours a day. We're MUCH happier now. THanks everyone.

Candace - posted on 11/06/2011

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I didn't read through all the comments. This is a very popular topic! My son will get overstimulated too. It seems like he's happy and playing and then BAM, crying and crying because he's overtired. He's two months old. I find that covering his face and eyes with a blanket (loosely obviously) while I am holding him takes away the visual stimulus and puts him out like a light and calms him down quite quickly. I also use a soother. Sometimes he takes it and it calms him down. The next time, it just makes him more mad! Good luck!

Nicole - posted on 10/31/2011

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Thank you. Rachel, she only sleeps on her tummy, she will flail her arms and legs around and think its play time if shes on her back, I've tried sooo many times and she wont be swaddled so tummy sleeping is what we do. I try pacifyer in the middle of the night to try to avoid her pacifying on my breast but she knows the difference makes a gag face and pushes it away. Shes very smart, last night I tried to not give her the breast because I noticed shes not even drinking shes just suckling and she lost her mind, and I couldnt soothe her back to sleep, my husband came in and shes NEVER let him help her to sleep without a fight and she let him and she relaxed and went to sleep, 3 times he helped her last night and this mornign at 5am I had to change her wet clothes and feed her and she was so wired from the changing that I couldnt relax her so husband came in and he relaxed her...I dont know why I cant do it all of a sudden?! So frustrating. I really wish she would take formula and a bottle! Im getting sooo tired of all of this that she must sense it. She also needs to have her arms and legs held as she fights me during rocking etc. its really hard...Shes almost 5mo (dob 6.11.11) so I want to try the Sleep Easy Solution sleep training Im hoping it works, going to be a rough go, i dont wish to hear her cry it breaks my heart but we all need our sleep around here especially her.

Camilla - posted on 10/30/2011

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Four months was a tricky age for my boy too when it came to sleep (and other things). It's very common. Google '4-month sleep regression' and you'll find interesting stuff on it. Also, there is a great book called 'The Wonder Weeks' which basically describes all the fussy weeks that your baby is likely to go through in the first year and the developmental leaps that they herald. I only discovered this book when my boy was 11 months - really wished I'd had it from the beginning.

Nicole - posted on 10/24/2011

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Im on it, Nursing to sleep each time. I did it for both naps this morning, she slept for 45 min first time and going on 30min and shes moving alot

[deleted account]

I'm with Liz on the nursing-to-sleep thing. Nighttime-sleep can suffer greatly for some babies when they don't nap at daytime. I'd say do whatever works until she is more rested and settled at nighttime. That will probably take a some time, and you can still work on breaking the sleep association with the boob later on.
I kind of hate that I keep referring to my daughter but it just sounds EXACTLY like the scenario we had at 4 months for exactly the same reasons. It took me a few months for her to settle down at night and ONLY wake up briefly to be nursed back to sleep instead of being awake and miserable pretty much all night.

Nicole - posted on 10/24/2011

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Oh and Bernadette, she gets too excited over any toy, her mobile makes her kick and squeal with delight Ha! I really just have a High Needs baby, but maybe shes teething? Shes drooling and wanting to bite our fingers really hard. Maybe this is why the irritabiltiy, restlessness and troubles staying asleep? Im so stumped!

Nicole - posted on 10/24/2011

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Thanks again for your suggestions and support yesterday was so hard not getting more than 1.5naps out of her we worked on naps all day it seemed, then bedtime came and she would not sleep. She slept a total of 5 hours and not all together sh woke hourly until 2am then stayed up until 5am and then I managed to rock her to sleep until 7am, I tried everything even bringing her to bed with me...nothing worked. So I know when some are saying to just forget the books and do what's best for my baby however I am struggling I just don't know what to do, were running on empty this is so hard. Her doctor just says "babies do this" and I'm just not convinced this is normal sleep behavior. I can't function like this much longer and I know its not healthy for her so that's why I came here for ideas and support.

Bernadette - posted on 10/24/2011

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don't be too hard on yourself. "I thought I was doing everything right, turns out im not." There isn't really any "right" or "wrong", different things work for different people and you just have to try different things until you find out what works for you. I'm sure you're doing great, but an over-tired baby can be difficult to deal with. Maybe you could try putting her in bed when she is happy, rather than when she is obviously tired? This usually seems to work for my son. If I put him in when he is over-tired, he will just scream the house down and then the only thing that works is to walk with him until he falls asleep, and hope he doesn't wake up when I put him back down. But if he is in a good mood, I can usually put him down and he will happily play, suck his thumb, and eventually drop off. Obviously though, I only do this if it is getting to around that time when he should be getting tired - I don't just plonk him in if he's happy because he's wide awake and playing! :) But if he's been awake for a few hours, has been fed, etc, I will go and put him in. He also has a light-up, musical thing that hangs off the side of his cot so that he has something to look at. I put that on, and he'll watch it for a while. If he cries when I leave the room I'll wait a few minutes and see what he does - if he stops I know he'll put himself to sleep. If the crying gets worse, I know he's not ready yet and I go and get him again.



Oh, and I used to put a dangly pram toy over his bed - one of those ones that clips onto either side of the pram, and arches over it with three little toys hanging off it. It used to clip onto the sides of his bassinette and he could look at them and also reach out and touch them which used to entertain him until he fell asleep. Of course, when he moved in to the cot it wasn't big enough to stretch from one side to the other, and at any rate it would have been too high for him to reach. But he really loved this to fall asleep with. Maybe you could find some kind of toy that dangles within reach, but that can't be pulled down or become a strangulation hazard. Something like a mobile, but that she can just touch so that it keeps her distracted from the fact that she is all alone in bed?

[deleted account]

Honestly, I think you should just nurse her to sleep completely. She's not settling because you're trying to put her down in her crib "drowsy but awake."



I know all about that phrase from sleep training books. Maybe you will get it to work, maybe PU/PD will work. But it's a lot of stress for you over what are essentially vague fears about the future. (You're worried she won't "learn" to sleep on her own, right?)



They go through so many different phases... including separation anxiety (starting around 7 months). It's just not worth worrying about, in my humble opinion.

Eva-Lotta - posted on 10/23/2011

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Well said Lori A.
Also with our second daughter it was hard to see the early "tired signs". We have figured out that she starts "cuddling" her ear and twirl her hair a little bit, like giving herself a littl pat on the isde of the head. It's very cute but very subtle...

Lori - posted on 10/23/2011

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There also comes a point at which you need to put down the books, stop thinking about what everyone else is doing with their baby, and just do what your mommy instincts are telling you to do. Just because you're a new mommy doesn't mean that anyone else knows better how to take care of YOUR baby.

Eva-Lotta - posted on 10/23/2011

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They all sleep differently and for different amount of time! A friend of mine couldn't ever get her son to go down for a proper sleep he would just have lots of little cat naps in the rocker, pram or where ever they were.
Have you got a routine for her before bed?
With my first daughter (now just turned 2) we carried her around, trying to settle her and she just cried and screamed and eventually I got so sick and tired of it and felt totally useless etc so I went and put her in bed and grumbled for her to just go to sleep child! and she did. I was a bit stumped and wasn't sure what to make out of it but then we tried it and she just didn't want to be carried around because she was so curious on everything so she got more and more stimulated and more and more overtired... After that we just get changed into pj's, brush teeth (did from about 5 months of age to have her used to a toothbrush from the beginning) and then sing a little night night song and then bed! We do the same with our 2nd daughter (now 9 months) and she has taken longer but have had a very different start to her life (due to being very premature) but she is now getting really good with going to sleep at night. All kids go to bed about 7:30pm and wake up between 6-7am (bit earlier now in summer due to bright mornings)...
Oh and if they do cry and refuse to go to sleep, we go in every 5 minutes and re-assure them that we are still here, love them bla bla bla and then leave the room again. We then go in every 5 minutes and tell them that it is time for sleep and that mummy and daddy has to go to bed too.
Most times that works there has been a few occassions when it hasn't worked and we've ended up having them fall asleep with us and then carry them back into their bed but that is mainly when they have been sick..
Good luck, all the best and I hope it works out for you!!! :)

Nicole - posted on 10/23/2011

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Yes I do nurse her to sleep I try putting hr down drowsy and its usually a fail but I'm working on it. I do pick up, put down starting today as standing over her rubbing her reassuring isn't working. I guess just being a new mom, rading so much, hearing that friends babies same age are sleeping 2.5hrs here and there I feel like I'm not ding something right

[deleted account]

I think all in all I wouldn't get too hung up on the amount of hours in a day until you have a good feeling for how much your daughter needs. Once I'd figured out what my daughter's minimum was, I started aiming for that and working hard on her getting it. I liked the guidelines in Elisabeth Pantley's book, because they gave me an idea, but in the end my daughter never got more than just about the minimum on that list (might have needed more though...). As far as timing goes - only you know what times are best for naps, it can be such hit and miss. Ours always had her first nap at 8am. People thought that was strange, but any time later and she wouldn't go down. Catnaps never worked for us either, she'd be absolutely miserable 30 minutes later. What's the pu pd method?

[deleted account]

6 hours of naps seem a bit much for a 4 month old? I can imagine a baby who needs that much daytime sleep, but I wouldn't consider that "typical." If the child slept 10-12 hours a night, that would total 16-18 hours!!



At 4 months, my son would need a nap 45-60 minutes after waking in the morning. I don't think that's unusual, from what I've heard from other parents. Later on in the day, he would stay up longer... 1-2 hours.



Nicole, do you nurse your baby to sleep?

Lori - posted on 10/23/2011

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I liked this chart from baby center. It starts out with "every child is different - some need up to two hours more or less sleep than others?

http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-much-sle...

I found my older daughter needs about 2 hours less than the chart says, but my younger daughter is spot on.

Amy - posted on 10/23/2011

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How much sleep is she getting total at night, Ina 24 hour period she should be getting 14 to 15 hours, so if total she sleeps 11 hours at night, even if she wakes to feed and goes back to sleep again that only leaves 3-4 hours for napping during the day, so 6 hours seems like a but much which could be the reason she's fighting it so much. Also I would think that you need to try and stretch out the time she's awake, if she's only up for 45 minutes and then you start putting her down she just may not be tired!

Nicole - posted on 10/23/2011

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Teresa I spoke with a sleep trainer and was told she needs 4-6hrs naptime in a day. She's just like your son was, did his naps get longer? She wakes after 20, 30 or 45min after sleep cycles ending and I'm trying to rush in and help her back to sleep...did it today, got 1hr out of her, she tried to wake after 20min...

Nicole - posted on 10/23/2011

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Wake time varies from 730 to800am...and she's still tired rubbing eyes, yawning but usually happy...around 45min later I start naptime and for the past 3 days she's slept 1hr or close to it. I'm going to try the pu pd method because I have a hard time with the crying as just patting her reassuring does not work for her she just gets more upset.

[deleted account]

As far as naps and my son went.... 20 minutes was 'normal'. The longest he would EVER nap until he was only taking one nap a day was 45 minutes. Then it was as short as 5 minutes or as long as 3.5 hours....

[deleted account]

If you can get a two-hour nap out of her, that's great. But I know at that age, (for the most part) my son wouldn't take naps more than 40-50 minutes long. He would take 4-5 of these in a day. Around 6 months, he was taking 3 one-hour+ naps, so they naturally lengthened.



What does your day look like? When does she usually wake in the morning, etc.?

Lori - posted on 10/22/2011

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Nicole, I don't know about going in and out before picking her up either. With my first she nursed to sleep for bed and naps till about 20 months. My 2nd is now 11 months and currently nurses to sleep for both bed and naps. Now there are of course the odd days out where nursing doesn't put them to sleep, and thats where the extra rocking, walking, singing, etc. comes in. Especially when teething, or sick, or as you're saying just over tired and over stimulated. My 11 month old still wakes during the night, and I still nurse her back to sleep when she does wake. My older daughter woke at least once nightly and I nursed her back to sleep nightly till she was 17 months old, and she started sleeping through the night on her own most nights. I tried CIO with my older daughter as there were times when it seemed nothing I was doing was working, so I might as well just let her cry. Boy did that backfire. She'd get so worked up that she'd throw up. And that could be in as little as just a few minutes. I was always jealous of my friends who had babies who slept through the night from the time they were 2 months old. Now especially that I have the 2nd one I'm learning that soooo much of that is just the babies personality. If your baby is a high needs baby, you may find you both get better sleep if you take her to bed with you and co-sleep. I know I was nervous at first about doing that since we're warned about SIDS, but there are ways to co-sleep very safely, and for some babies, it's the only way they're gonna get much sleep. My older daughter was notorious for taking 20 minute naps. UGH! When she was little enough to take 3 naps a day, it was 3 20 minute naps. I never felt like that was enough, but she just wouldn't sleep longer. When she cut down to 2 naps a day she started taking 45 minute naps, and now at age 3 she takes 1 nap and it's usually between 1 1/2 hours and 2 hours.

Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes even though I think my LO is tired, she just isn't ready for a nap YET. If she's not ready, it is very very difficult to get her to sleep. For example, most days she takes a nap at about 10 am. Well this morning, 10 am comes along and she's acting cranky. I bring her into her room like normal, nurse her, and she finishes up wide awake. I try holding her in a different position and rocking and singing and that just makes her cry and scream. So I took her back to the living room where she happily played for another hour. Then she was more than ready to take her nap, and went down easily. Now I know this is the opposite of what you're saying your daughters trouble is..... but just offering it up. Keep watching your daughter, and keep trying, and remember by the time you figure it all out, she'll be on to a new stage and you get to start all over figuring out the new stage. Weeeeeeeeeeeee.

[deleted account]

She won't nurse to sleep?

Sorry... I don't have any advice. All 3 of my kids nursed to sleep every nap/night til 9 months and nursed to sleep MOST of the time past that until we weaned.

I hope you figure something out soon!

Nicole - posted on 10/22/2011

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Hi Lori, I have that Dr.Sears book and my daughter falls into that HN category perfectly! Im so exhausted there is no way I want another baby right now either! I have to wait until I figure her out more and get her more rested, poor thing. I keep missing "the window" and I dont know why its so hard to notice her sleep signs, maybe because shes always tired I cant tell the difference. Im confused with the going in and out of her room reassuring her...how long to do it, how many times to go in and out before picking her up? any advice? Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

Lori - posted on 10/21/2011

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just FYI, cry it out isn't recommended by any experts until the baby is at least 6 months old. And after 6 months the experts are still divided about whether it actually works, or if it can cause harm to the baby. Of course a bit of fussing is different than crying. But if she reaches screaming, I'd go in.

My first was a much more challenging baby than my 2nd has turned out to be. I came across this great book by Dr. Sears called "The Fussy Baby". He uses the term "High Needs", and his description fit my daughter pretty well. I don't know enough about your daughter to say if she's in this category or not, but you may want to check out his web site. He also has a site on 31 ways to get your baby to sleep and to stay asleep

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-b...

My husband and I couldn't even consider a 2nd baby until my older one started sleeping through the night... at 17 months old. Once we were getting regular sleep again, we started thinking maybe we could handle doing it all over again. Luckily our 2nd one has been much easier than the 1st one was/is. That's not to say that we don't still have our days and nights of crying and fussing and no sleep. But just to say - not all babies are the same.

And on the topic of carriers, I agree that the Ergo is a great carrier. We had a chicco carrier before, and I couldn't wear it for 5 minutes without it killing my back. I can have my baby in the ergo for 2 hours before I start feeling any extra pressure on my back. The Maya Wrap is somewhere in between - much better than the chicco, but since it is worn only over one shoulder it isn't comfortable for AS LONG. But for short amounts of time, the sling is much quicker and easier to use.

Nicole - posted on 10/21/2011

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Well tonights bedtime isnt going well, how long in between "shh shh shh its ok, time for night night" until I go back in? And how long do I stand there and shh shh? Just when I thought we were on track with great naps today, the last one failed and shes been up for 4hours!

Nicole - posted on 10/21/2011

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Ya I hear ya! My husband says he wants to adopt an older child to bypass the baby stage...I might be right there with him on that one! I really wanted her to have a sibling because I grew up with my sister and I being close and want that for her but...thinking twice right now LOL!

[deleted account]

Nah, I'd say she'd be fine until bedtime. Sorry, that's as far as my wisdom stretches. Actually, some people I know would get a great laugh out of me trying to give anyone advice on the subject! My partner is still so traumatised, he doesn't even want to think about a second baby.
You poor thing! Put out back and non-sleeping baby! I remember looking at my daughter thinking 'where is the appreciation?!'. Haha, as if!

Nicole - posted on 10/21/2011

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hahah! your hilarious! Its funny though I've had to do that too, I rocked her so hard I pulled my back out, now I can only rock in the chair HA! She just woke up after 40min and Im trying the shushshhhhh patting her etc...shes not crying but making alot of noise...dont think shes going back down....how long do we keep trying this method? until we pick her up, realizing shes not going back to sleep? and since its 3:30 and bedtime is around 6-7 shhould I try for another nap (if she shows signs)

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We never could get more then 4 hours out of our daughter, but I think at that age there really is no such thing as sleeping too much. I never did the log, but found all the info on infant-sleep really helpful, as it gave me a frame of reference. There is a list somewhere in the book that gives you averages of hours of daytime and nighttime sleep infants should get.
As far as the overtired stage - we had to rock the shit out of our daughter! Lightly swaying did absolutely nothing for her. I'd normally stand on the mattrass (for better bounce), have her latched on my breast, rock her from side to side and sing, always the same bloody song - for anything up to an hour. God, I really don't miss that... I wish I had something more helpful to offer, but nothing else worked for us for a really, really long time. Only thing I can say is, that once she's caught up on her sleep, things will get much better.
Oh, and it took me 4 months to get that lightbulb moment, too! Ah well, next time we'll be smarter...

Nicole - posted on 10/21/2011

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Ok I was wondering about this book! I just bought it but havent found the part that tells me what to do when she IS overtired and I missed the window and shes screaming! From what I've read it just tells you to log everything (which I have been doing since birth but the lightbulb didnt turn on till now about her being OT OS) and to set up nap and night time routines and to keep things calm....
Today we're doing better, Nap #1 45min (i think your right I should have tried to resettle her) Nap #2 2hours 10min, and we're into Nap #3 now. So you think she should get up to 6 hours of naptime a day? Thanks for the advice on the carrier too.

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Oh, and I have a bad back too. The Ergo-Carrier worked great for me and is very easy to use. It holds your baby quite high and close to your body plus there is no tying or wrapping involved so you don't run the risk hurting yourself while fiddling around with it. I actually found using it easier on my back than pushing the buggy (not that she ever wanted to be pushed in the first place...).

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My daughter was a total basket-case by 4 months for precisely that reason! And I totally understand what you mean by 'that kind of baby', as ours (now 2) was one of those too.
I can't really help you with how to get her to sleep and how to get her out of your arms as we were struggling a lot with that too, but here is what I learned and what was helpful.
Your daughter has probably consistently not napped enough and by now is chronically overtired, so it will take some time for her to catch up (in our case a few months). A 45 minute nap seems very short. Most likely she woke up once she hit the light-sleep phase and couldn't resettle herself. Don't assume she is done sleeping, but rather pick her up straight away and soothe her back to sleep.
Our daughter never displayed early sleep cues either, so we had to find the right time of the day for her and stick to it. Aim for three naps a day and try to strech them to two hours or more if you can. An early bed-time is also important.
Elisabeth Pantley's 'The No-Cy-Sleep Solution' helped me immensely in understanding my daughter's sleep-needs. You can get it on amazon, it's quite cheap.
GOOD LUCK!!!

Nicole - posted on 10/21/2011

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thank you everyone, so I dont have a wrap, I thought she would be too heavy for my back pain, but i will go try one out. When they say "cry it out" do you think that means heavy hard terrible cry? I say this only because if I can not rock her or hold her shes going to cry, but her cry isnt wailing its just a soft whimpery cry but left too long she escalates then I pick her up try to nurse and rock her back to sleep, that worked last night.
Nap routines are starting over now that I know shes OS/OT so Im watching for sleepy cues more than ever as with this type of baby its sometimes hard to see, I take her around to turn off lights and shut blinds and say "Good night sunshine time for nappy" and she usually nestles into my neck and rubs her eyes and does this lil fake cough for milk, then feed her and burp and rock for a few min then drowsy lay in bed...this morning it worked great. She slept from 8:40am to 9:25. At night we're trying a longer unwind bedtime routine but last night must have been too long because I missed the window and she got fussy....its sure a working progress!

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What kind of routine do you have? At 4 months, babies typically can't stay up for more than 1-1.5 hours before needing a nap.

Lori - posted on 10/20/2011

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When my daughter gets overstimulated she also doesn't want rocked to sleep. And just laying her in the crib just gets her to scream and scream. Usually the only thing that works for her is walking. Either just holding her and pacing around the bedroom, or if it's a really bad time I'll put her in the sling and just do something around the house. Doesn't usually take very long and she's out. I don't know what exactly it is about walking versus rocking, but it is a different motion - and perhaps more familiar to them from their time in the womb.

If you don't have a sling yet I HIGHLY recommend getting one. I have a Maya Wrap (ring sling), and I absolutely LOVE it. This is my 2nd baby, and I didn't get it till she was about 3 months old. She's now 11 months old and I have used it daily for the past 8 months. Some days more than other days, but some days - nothing else works.

Amy - posted on 10/20/2011

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I never let my daughter cry more the 5-10 minutes. If my daughter's crying escalated where she wasn't stopping to catch her breath I would get her immediately. Sometimes I would try and nurse her again to see if she wasn't completely full and it also helped soothe her.

As far as leaving her my daughter really only cried for about 3 minutes and then would fuss on and off, but if she is full blown crying I don't reccommend leaving her for a long period of time. If she nurses to sleep that's ok too, that's how we got through teething! Will she take a pacifier? My daughter took one till she started teething my son never took one so I always was nursing him, or he would get a bottle from his father since I work.

Nicole - posted on 10/20/2011

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Thanks Amy, I'm just having such a hard time with her, she won't let my husband soothe her when crying...it actually gets worse then instantly stops when I take her. Its just her and i , I do not have friends or family so I know she's got separation anxiety already. Rocking and bouncing in my arms after bfeeding were going great then just changed almost overnight but I'm 100% sure its overtired overstim. So, when I can't shush her, pat her to calm her and cries continue or escalate how long until I pick her up? Its happening right now...they escalated after 15min so I put her on th boob and she's now asleep rocking on my shoulder, I know this is not what I want to be doing but ik worry that too much crying will do harm.

Amy - posted on 10/20/2011

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My daughter was like this when she was a baby she would get tired and start crying but kept crying regardless if I was holding her, rocking her, or put her in her bouncy seat. Because I had an older child who is a horrible sleeper I made the decision that if she was going to fuss I wasn't going to hold her till she fell asleep while she was pushing us away. We always put her in her bouncy seat or crib with her blanket, she would fuss or cry for a few minutes and the fall right to sleep, she has always been a self soother the complete opposite of her older brother it's just her personality.

Sometimes a baby is going to cry because like you said they are over tired/over stimulated and that is there way of unwinding. You're not a bad mom if you set her down and let her fuss for a few minutes, she may just self soothe to sleep. I don't recommend leaving her for more then a few minutes or if she's getting really worked up I would go and check on her and try to calm her. The only sign I can think of right now that your baby is getting tired is the rubbing of the eyes. Does she have a nap schedule, does she get fussy at the same time everyday or are her naps all over the place? If she seems to be going to sleep around the same time try putting her to sleep 30 minutes earlier and see if that makes a difference. But I don't think you are necessariy doing everything wrong because your baby doesn't want to be rocked to sleep. Some babies the rocking motion causes stimulation so it would have the opposite effect that you are hoping for, I would just chalk it up to having a independent little girl who is a self soother, and that's not to say she's never going to want you to rock her to sleep because there will be times and instances that it'll be the only way to get her to sleep. I would just take the cues that your baby is sending and do your best to follow your babies lead. I would also like to add my daughter till this day at 19 months old goes into her crib awake and falls asleep on her own, no crying, where my 5 year old still needs us to sit with him till he's asleep and 85% of the time he comes into bed with us in the middle of the night so my point is they are all different with their own personalities! I hope this helps.

Nicole - posted on 10/20/2011

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Also, when I miss her cues for sleep (which I seem to suck at noticing) how do I soothe her? She wont let me rock her, or hold her without pinching, kicking, crying...its so sad. I feel awful...do we then have to just lay her in her crib and come in every few minutes to tell her its ok and we love her?

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