A Different Take...

Krystle - posted on 06/09/2009 ( 32 moms have responded )

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I've recently started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses. Upon your knowledge of them, what are your thought's on their view's/truth's on Christianity? (Please no bashing... everyone's thoughts are different so please be respectful and open-minded...)

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Varinia - posted on 11/30/2009

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Hi there...I've just started using circle of mums so this message might seem a bit late... I do not know if you are still studying the bible with Jehovah's Witnesses but about your question as to what our thought are upon this matter? I am a Jehovah Witness, not through birth or the way my parents raised me. I've started studying when I was 18 and baptised when I was 19. Its nice to see how you want to find people to talk about this matter, only caution is, not everyone may agree with what you say as proved in the conversations, so don't let yourself get brought of course because of that.



If you stopped taking study, do you wish to share as to why you did? ANd if you are still studying, how are you finding it to discover the truth about everything,??



Greetings,



Varinia

Heather - posted on 06/18/2009

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I was reading my Bible last night and something reminded me of our discussion here. I was reading in 2 Peter 3, and towards the end he is talking about how Paul wrote his letters and they contain things that are hard to understand, and how ignorant and unstable people will distort them and other Scriptures to their own destruction. So the Jehovah Witnesses tell us that their Bible is just easier to understand, but Peter tells us that it shouldn't be that way. We need to read the Bible and find the answers with the help of God, not other people. And I'm not just talking about the NWT here. There are so many study Bibles on the market today, and some of the notes are not exactly correct. We need to discerning in all of our studies, not just when we are studying with people who believe different then us, but also when we are taking in what others tell us about our own beliefs.

Heather - posted on 06/16/2009

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Krystle, I do get most of my information from the Jehovah's Witness's. The one that I work with, some that I spoke with a few years back when I lived in their missionary area, I worked with, and was rather close friends with a couple that had gotten kicked out of their Kingdom hall when they got married against their parents wishes, and one of the ladies in my church studied with them for the entire 6 month period that they allow their prospective converts, at the end of the 6 months you either confirm that you believe all of their beliefs or they shun you, she has been shunned. So yes, I get most of my information directly from them, as I mentioned before, I have a copy of their Bible, many of their books, and a book about cults. They give half truths by taking what the Bible says, and twisting it to mean something different. Many times they only quote one verse, and yes the verse says what they say it does, but it is taken completely out of context. Such as in Chapter 3 of "What Does The Bible Really Teach" they quote Isaiah 46:9-11 and 55:11 in reference to the earthly paradise. 46 is talking about idols, so yes it says what they say, but about something completely different. 55 is talking about coming to Jehovah and how everyone who seeks him will find him, again nothing to do with an earthly paradise.

The Jehovah's Witness's say many things, but they also admit that no one can know what happened before the world was made, yet they try to explain it. How can they explain something that they don't know?

They say many times that the Bible was written by God. I believe that we are all in agreement on this. He wrote it through man, but it was Jehovah that was speaking the words that were written down. Please reference "What Does The Bible Really Teach" chapter two for their views if you question me on that. If it is written by God, why is it that they find fault with it? So much fault that they believe that they need to change the word, or add words to make it mean something else. As in John 1:1, in the appendix of the above mentioned Watchtower publication (page 202) they try to vindicate themselves saying that others did not translate the verse "the Word was God". However no one else approves their translation of "the Word was a god" I have never found a translation that says "divine" which is their example, but either way, that does not equal a god. There is only one God.

Have they explained to you about the resurrection yet? They do not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead, but that Jehovah raised his spirit, but his body was left in the tomb, so my question is, where did it go? When the stone was rolled away, the tomb was empty(Luke 24:3). Thomas stuck his hand in the hole in Jesus' side, and put his fingers in his hands(John 20:27). They would have us believe that this was merely a replica of Jesus' original body to prove to Thomas something that didn't really happen... I don't believe that Jehovah plays tricks on people, and certainly nothing like that. If we are all just dead when we die, what was the significance of Jesus being dead three days, would it have even mattered, he wouldn't have known... They reference Lazarus, and say that he did not come out of his tomb talking about hell or heaven, they are correct, the Bible doesn't record a single word out of Lazarus' mouth. We have no clue what he talked about. They don't mention the fact that Moses and Elijah met with Jesus, if they were dead, how could they do this? I know I have put a lot of questions here, and please don't feel you have to answer them. I am e-mailing them to the Jehovah's Witness that I work with also.

I will stop for now, I think I am asking more questions of you then answering. But yes, I get my information from them. Please remember that they will tell you only what will make you believe them, and not bring up anything that doesn't support their side of the story. I want to leave you with Colossians 1:16 again, where it does most certainly not say the same thing.

KJV Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

NWT Colossians 1:16
because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.

Tam - posted on 06/16/2009

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Krystle, thanks for commenting back. I wasn't sure who said it but wanted to point out that even the JW NWT says "our" image, and thus confirms God was not alone. Some have argued that it's because He was speaking in the "royal" third person, (Like when the Queen says, "we are not pleased" meaning she herself isn't). Besides the fact that to believe that is out of context with the rest of the Word, there are other verses to back up that this is not true (such as the Word was with God and the Word was God). God has had no problem saying "I am" (for example, I Am Alpha and Omega, I am the Lord your God, I Am that I Am, etc.). If it were meant to be third person, it would have been continued throughout the text of the OT, at the very least.

Hope you have a blessed day.

To the other ladies who mentioned me in their posts, you're very welcome, but the glory goes to our God who gave the Word to us! :) I appreciate your confirmation though. God is good, isn't He?

Krystle - posted on 06/16/2009

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Quoting Tam:

Someone (sorry, forget who) mentioned God being alone at Creation, yet KJV and NWT alike state that God said...


Genesis 1:26-27

KJV:
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

NWT:
And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving on the earth." And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him;

Both confirm the plurality of Trinity. Angels were not mentioned in the Bible at the point, and even so, Angels were not our Creators nor are they given the power to create, that alone belongs to God.

No one doubts that the Holy Spirit (the third member of the Trinity) was at the beginning in Creation for the Spirit moved upon the waters of the deep. It is only Jesus that people doubt being there.

Based on the above, the verse Heather mentioned and that Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh, I have to believe in the Godhead being plural (Father, Son & Holy Ghost).

Maybe I didn't say that correctly, but wanted to share those verses for understanding. I hope it helps.


I'm not going to go on about my beliefs... although, personally I don't believe in the trinity, you've made a good point about Genesis 1:26-27; the fact that he obvioulsy wasnt in heaven alone. thanks for your thoughts!!!

Krystle - posted on 06/16/2009

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Quoting Rebekah:

Jehovah another name of God, just like "Elohim" and "Adonai", etc. These were used in place of Yahweh (YHWH) because it was the sacred name of God and the Jews didn't want it mistreated. Jehovah was used to replace YHWH, but technically Yahweh, is the name of God. But God also goes by "Elohim", "Adonai", "King of Kings", "I Am", and many other names. There is a whole list of names of God all throughout the Bible - including "Abba" which means Father. He is everything!


Thanks for your insight.

Krystle - posted on 06/16/2009

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Quoting Rebekah:

Jehovah another name of God, just like "Elohim" and "Adonai", etc. These were used in place of Yahweh (YHWH) because it was the sacred name of God and the Jews didn't want it mistreated. Jehovah was used to replace YHWH, but technically Yahweh, is the name of God. But God also goes by "Elohim", "Adonai", "King of Kings", "I Am", and many other names. There is a whole list of names of God all throughout the Bible - including "Abba" which means Father. He is everything!


Thanks for your insight.

Krystle - posted on 06/16/2009

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Quoting Heather:

Shelly, the verse in Genesis you were looking for is 1:26, however the Jehovah's Witness's are amazing at giving half truths. They believe that God (Jehovah) made Jesus first. Then they made the world together. I think the other verse you were looking for is John 8:20.

One of the verses that they have changed is John 10:38. I will write it here in both versions so you can see the difference.

KJV
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

NWT:
But if I am doing them, even though YOU do not believe me, believe the works, in order that YOU may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father.


In my studies with them they have made it clear to me that God made the world by himself.  Jesus did not aid God with creating the world.  In the KJV and the NWT it clearly states at Genesis 1:1- In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.  Through all the days of his creation, it says God created everything, not God and Jesus.  You bring up Genesis 1:26 which reads (KJV)  "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." It says the exact same thing in NWT!!! There's no difference!!! Where does the half-turth come in?



Now to tie those two scriptures together... (This is how they explained it to me) God created the heavens and the earth.  When God created the heavens he created everything that exsists in Heaven, including the angels.  Jesus was an angel (supposedly the acrhangel Micheal, I myself am very questionable about that) in Heaven before he was placed as a perfect human in Mary.  Therefore at Genesis 1:26  God speaks to the angels, or Jesus alone,  to create man in thier image.  Now you may say, there is no mention of the creation of angels. Which was one of my questions to them.  They then asked me then how did it come that the serpant was to communicate to Eve?  It was a good point bc we all know that the devil is the fallen angel. Another was the Cheribums that he placed (not created and placed) at the gate of Eden when Adam and Eve were kicked out.  Angels had to have been created at some point in time, so they were created with the Heavens. 



I am still a little sceptical to thier theory but it makes more since than anything anyone else has told me.



Also, the scriptue you have presented (John 10:38) explains that Jesus was made in the image of his Father and those searching for God can find him through Jesus.  If you break down the two traslations, you will notice they read the same,  with the latter being in language that we all can understand. 



Heather, why do you make such bold comments?  Do you gather your comments from JW's directly?

Krystle - posted on 06/16/2009

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Quoting Lorraine:

one of the things to identify a cult is by the change in their doctrines. and JW tend to change their doctrine to explain away things that do not suit them any longer.

heather, i strongly support your detailed explanation!


Can you enlighten me w/ facts?

Kiva - posted on 06/15/2009

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Krystle, You must study the word for yourself, dont take anyones word on it. Here is a great site to help you in your studies www.searchgodsword.org . God tells us not to add to or take away from his word...I believe JW is doing exactly what he tells us not to do...adding to the word.



Heather and Tam thank you for bring out the truth and backing it up with scripture.



The truth will set you FREE

Zina - posted on 06/15/2009

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Thank you, Heather Hart and Tam Zimmerman for making the truth known and backing it up with scripture.

Rebekah - posted on 06/15/2009

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Jehovah another name of God, just like "Elohim" and "Adonai", etc. These were used in place of Yahweh (YHWH) because it was the sacred name of God and the Jews didn't want it mistreated. Jehovah was used to replace YHWH, but technically Yahweh, is the name of God. But God also goes by "Elohim", "Adonai", "King of Kings", "I Am", and many other names. There is a whole list of names of God all throughout the Bible - including "Abba" which means Father. He is everything!

Rebekah - posted on 06/15/2009

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Quoting Krystle:



Quoting Rebekah:

I truly believe Jehovah Witness is a cult, not an "occult", but a cult. They have a tendency to mislead the truth of the Word of God by incorrect translation and they'll only take one verse at a time, instead of the chapter in it's entirety to get the whole picture of what the verses are actually talking about. To me a form of what the Bible talks about as false prophets - I'd be very careful about studying with them and seek God's wisdom and counsel as you do.

Heather is right about their views and how they began. JW have a way of making it seem like they truly know the truth, but are so far from it.





 






I took the definition of what a clut is from dictionary.com and copied and pasted it.  I think that you maybe unsure what a cult actually is.  If you view how they believe as cult like then I would have to say that all religions are simular cults. Cults also imply that they use pagan acts in thier worship and from what I have learned that stay far far away from any of that. 






A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthodox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherents live in groups apart from the rest of society. The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. Their worship is a way of life, not a ritual devotion. They neither follow a human nor isolate themselves from the rest of society. They live and work in the midst of other people.





































1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.




































2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.




































3. the object of such devotion.




































4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.




































5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.




































6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.




































7. the members of such a religion or sect.




































8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.




Thank you for your definition of a "cult" and to be clear I already knew the definition.  But the Bible also speaks of cults and occults and any thing that is not of God or leads to false doctrine falls into those categories.  JW mislead, deceive, and want you to live "their" way, and my opinion is still that they are a type of cult.  I have had many friends who were JW and because I never believed the way they did or followed according to their Bible (written by "man" not God) they dropped my friendship.  I still pray for those people today and hope they find real truth because their religion is faulty.  I pray God gives you discernment and will reveal truth to you, so that either you can be an open door in your study with these people to see the truth or that maybe God makes you close the door.  Whatever the way, only God knows.  I just really pray you have good discernment with a study with JW.

Tam - posted on 06/14/2009

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Someone (sorry, forget who) mentioned God being alone at Creation, yet KJV and NWT alike state that God said...


Genesis 1:26-27

KJV:
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

NWT:
And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving on the earth." And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him;

Both confirm the plurality of Trinity. Angels were not mentioned in the Bible at the point, and even so, Angels were not our Creators nor are they given the power to create, that alone belongs to God.

No one doubts that the Holy Spirit (the third member of the Trinity) was at the beginning in Creation for the Spirit moved upon the waters of the deep. It is only Jesus that people doubt being there.

Based on the above, the verse Heather mentioned and that Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh, I have to believe in the Godhead being plural (Father, Son & Holy Ghost).

Maybe I didn't say that correctly, but wanted to share those verses for understanding. I hope it helps.

Kate - posted on 06/14/2009

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The nanny I had growing up, a woman who practically raised me, is a Jehova's witness. They are so loving of God. But they have mistranslated much of the bible and their pagan background is enough of a reason not to become a Jehova's Witness yourself. I wouldn't study the bible under Jehova's Witness direction because you might learn to read certain things the way they do and then begin to believe something of God and who He is that isn't true. I think it's wonderful to have lots of Jehova's Witness friends, they really light a fire inside and make me want to be more active in my Church (Catholicism) and have a more obedient and devoted relationship with God.

[deleted account]

I had a friend who was a JW a long time ago. She always seemed a bit stand offish whenever we were outside of school and NEVER came in my house despite the fact that we lived NEXT DOOR to each other. I moved away in the middle of high school then moved back a few years later and wanted to reconnect. She told me the only way we could be friends is if she could present her "testimony" or whatever they call it, to me. I sat and listened for several hours, asked about ten zillion questions, and came away believing, as others have stated, that this is a pseudo-Christian cult. When I said, politely, that I did not believe a word she had just said, she dropped me like a hot potato and wouldn't even return my calls. There were several points that were not compatible with Christianity. According to this lady's booklets, Jesus and Satan are brothers. They are both angels (i.e. created by god, not eternally existent as God the Father is). She explained this by pointing out that angels are often referred to as "sons of God" in the Bible. Jesus is basically the good kid and Satan is the bad boy. If you stop right here, that is enough. The central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus is the eternally existent Son of God. He is called "the only begotten son" because he is made of the same "essense" as God the father, just as my son is made of the same DNA I am. Jesus is GOD. He is not A god as their Bible clearly says. He is THE God. Most Christians understand his godhood as being part of what we call (though the Bible does not use this word) the Trinity. Others differ on that but do believe that Jesus is THE God. If you look at more of their beliefs, they contradict even a cursory study of the Bible as a whole. If you read on past their wrongly translated John 1:1, you find that it says that Jesus Christ IS the creator. Verse 3 says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". I would suggest you heed the words of Col 2:8-9 which says, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" God anticipated that taking away Jesus' deity would be a common way that false prophets would seek to deceive people. Please pray very carefully before listening to these people. I will pray that God will guide you in your exploration!

Heather - posted on 06/13/2009

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Shelly, the verse in Genesis you were looking for is 1:26, however the Jehovah's Witness's are amazing at giving half truths. They believe that God (Jehovah) made Jesus first. Then they made the world together. I think the other verse you were looking for is John 8:20.

One of the verses that they have changed is John 10:38. I will write it here in both versions so you can see the difference.

KJV
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

NWT:
But if I am doing them, even though YOU do not believe me, believe the works, in order that YOU may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father.

Shelly - posted on 06/12/2009

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I just love the way this has been treated as a debate and not a argument...THANKYOU JESUS!!! I wish I had a Bible in my hotel room b/c I know it says in Genesis that they were pleased and I know that Jesus said if you know the Father then you know me!!! But as I said I don't have a Bible in my room so I can't give you exact Books, chapters, or Verses...SOMEONE HELP ME!!!

Lorraine - posted on 06/11/2009

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one of the things to identify a cult is by the change in their doctrines. and JW tend to change their doctrine to explain away things that do not suit them any longer.

heather, i strongly support your detailed explanation!

Heather - posted on 06/11/2009

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I don't want to argue, but I would like to continue this farther. I personally am still doing my research, but I do know for sure what I have learned so far. Than being said, I'm sorry that they have misled you, but they have translated many scriptures wrong. I have their Bible and the KJV in front of me now, and I will type some differences out for you, the first being John 1:1 where they do believe that Jesus is a god...

KJV John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NWT John 1:1
In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

If that is what their Bible says, how is it that they do not believe it? The Jehovah's Witness I work with says that they believe that their are many gods, but only one God Almighty. (Please reference The Truth Shall Make You Free a Watch Tower Pulication) But back to the differences in the two scriptures:

KJV Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

NWT Colossians 1:16
because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.

KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

NWT 2 Thessalonians 2:1
However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of YOU

KJV John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

NWT John 8:58
Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."

About the Trinity I can give you an example that I once was given. When a man and woman get married they become one. Not one person, but one spiritually. I once had the Trinity described to me like that and it helped a lot. Keep in mind that God is perfect, therefore there is no divorcing himself....

About Hell, I do not believe that Hell is a place ran by demons, in fact I don't know many Christians that do.... Hell is a place of eternal torment that is the punishment awaiting us after death if we do no follow Jesus. It is a very real place, and satan will not be running it, but suffering right along with everyone else who is there. The greek word 'gehenna' according to the Jehovah's Witness's means 'everlasting destruction', you can ask anybody who actually speaks Greek, and they will tell you that it never means that. It literally is translated 'the hell of fire', and when accompanied by 'apolesai' as in Matthew 5:22 it should be translated 'to be delivered up to eternal misery'. I personally do not read or speak Greek, this is just what I have found. Please feel free to look into it yourself. Let me know if you find anyone other then them that says it is okay to translate it in that way.

And I don't know that YHWH is translated God, that was my point. In fact I said that most lean toward Yah Wey, but Jehovah is a possibility, but no one really knows. However they take it a little farther and translate not only YHWH as Jehovah, but also 'kyrios' and 'theos', and of course they only translate them as Jehovah when they are not referencing Jesus. In fact in the New Testament the tetragrammaton (YHWH) is never used. And by the way, I am called many things, very few people call me Heather. My kids call me Mom, my siblings call me Sis, my employees call me Boss Lady, the Pastor's wife at my church calls me Friend. I enjoy all of those names.

In the book "Let God Be True" a Watch Tower Publication, on page 198 it says "It does not mean that he (Christ) is on the way or has promised to com, but that he has already arrived and is here"

The reason that the Jehovah's Witness's are considered a cult is because their religion was founded by one man, Charles Tait Russell. Thus they were originally called Russellites until his death when Judge J. F. Rutherford took over. He did amend a few things, but it is the same basic beliefs. (They will tell you otherwise, but if you want examples let me know.) They are still led by one President, that answers to no one. They seem to be getting better about that though. They are a specific group of people gathered around one persons misinterpretation of the Bible. That is why they are considered a cult.

I know I have not answered all of your questions, but I am running out of time. Please feel free to question me farther. I am so glad you aren't leaving us! I do enjoy having you here! Your Sister in Christ.

Krystle - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Heather:

I work with a Jehovah's Witness she recently gave me a NWT Bible, and some other literature. So I know quite a bit right now. So first off, they do not believe in the Trinity, They have mistranslated several Bible verses. John 1:1 is the biggest one to me they have added the word 'a'. Which sounds simple, but isn't they have changed it from "the Word was god." to "the Word was 'a' god". They believe that Jehovah God created Jesus, and Jesus is not Co-eternal. They do not believe that Jesus is God, but a god, because they believe that all angels are gods, including satan. (Jesus and satan are equal? I dunno how they get around that one.)

Second, their Bible was translated (I use this word lightly) by a man named Charles Tait Russel, and he could not read, write or speak Hebrew or Greek... It has been updated since then, but they do not give out the names of the translators....

Third, they do not believe in Hell, and we are not going to Heaven. There will be no women in Heaven. We will live in the new Jerusalem here on earth, everyone else will just cease to exist....

Fourth, they believe that Jesus has already returned. He is invisible, and only his elect know that he is here. He operates out of the Jehovah's Witness' main office in Brooklyn. He returned in 1914 to start his 1000 year reign.

I recommend the book 'Kingdom of the Cults' to anyone who is interested. It compares their beliefs to the Bible, and even gets into where the translation of Hebrew and Greek have been manipulated. I'm not trying to bash on them. The woman that I work with is really one of my good friends. But if you research how they started, they kind of bash themselves. They have been caught in one lie after another. Including selling 'Miracle Wheat' They are generally wonderful people caught up in a lie. I am really not worried about offending anyone because they are not allowed to read anything that is not written by the Watch Tower Organization. They are required to throw away any letter they get that might contradict what they have been taught, before they read it, or they might 'fall away'. They are not allowed to study the Bible by themselves because they would not understand it without the help of the books written by the Watch Tower. They are not allowed to Celebrate the Sabbath... Or any holiday because they are all pagan. Christiandom is the worst thing in their eyes. Which is us by the way. We are children of the devil in their opinion.

They draw people in with saying that the are just vindicating Jehovah's name, but it's not true. Plus nobody in history (other then them) will even verify that YHWH is even pronounced Jehovah. It is a possibility, but most people lean toward Yah Wey.

Please if you have any other questions ask. I have not meant to offend you, but I truly enjoy having you in our community and will miss you dearly if you leave us.

Your Sister in Christ,
Heather


Thanks for you insight Heather, enjoyed your comment.  You make some really stong accusations.  I have to say, though, that even before studying with them I've always viewed God and Jesus as separate entities.  I don't think that they are one, in which the trinity implies.  And I think I have to have JW's back when I say this, they don't believe that Jesus is a god. They have made that very clear to me that is a HUGE misconseption.  They believe that there is only one God and Jesus is the Son of God (which Jesus says himslef many times.)  As it says in the first book Genisis, God created the heavens and the earth (meaning everything in them too including Jesus.)  It doesn't say God and Jesus created the heavens and the earth. Also, Col 1:15-17



Your second point is a good point, good to know,I did not know that. But I study from the KJV anyway.  I compare scriptures with them too and haven't found any flaws.



The third, they've explined the heaven and hell thing to me, but I think that you have thier beliefs messed up.  I don't want to get into this bc I don't know exactly what to say but I want to share with you a few scriptures that they've shared with me. These scriptues talk about the inheritance of the earth...Matt 5:5; 6:9,10; 25:31-33,40,46; John 10:16, 2 Peter 3:13, and Rev 7: 9, 10. Also, Rev 7: 4-8 speaks about the selected that go to heaven. (Rev 7:1-8 tells of the twleve thousand sealed from each tribe.)



Hell... The word “hell” is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses other translations read “the grave,” “the world of the dead,” and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered “hell”; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated. What are those words? The Hebrew she’ohl′ and its Greek equivalent hai′des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge′en·na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction. However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment).



Your forth comment... come on. Be real... that's insane.  Jesus took his throne in Heaven in 1914.  I don't know much about this either, but seriously...  how you stated that is obviously not true.



 Let me ask you this... How do you know that God is pronounced God? How do you know that Jesus is pronouced Jesus?  Isn't your name translated or spoken differently in another laguage?  The purpose of a name is to personally get to know someone.  I'm sure when you go somewhere people don't call you "girl" they call you Heather to get your attention.  If you can at least acknowledge that YHWH is God's personal name why don't you use it?  Jehovah is the way America pronouces his name and I'm sure it is pronounced various ways accross the world.Regardless of the several pronouciations, I think the important aspect is left out, the recognition of his name.



Did you know that Jehovah is mentioned in the KJV 4 times other than the 3 places named after him? (Mind you, I'm sure you know the KJV is one of the main Bible other translations translate from)  Exodus 6:3 Psalm 83:18 Isaiah 12:2; 26:4. Also, Genesis 22:14; Exodus 17:15, and Judges 6:24.



Oh.... btw... I'm not going no where. I asked for opinions and that's what I got! Right? :) No offense taken, I just hope that at least  what I have shared with you straightens up any misconseptions of what they believe in.

Krystle - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Rebekah:

I truly believe Jehovah Witness is a cult, not an "occult", but a cult. They have a tendency to mislead the truth of the Word of God by incorrect translation and they'll only take one verse at a time, instead of the chapter in it's entirety to get the whole picture of what the verses are actually talking about. To me a form of what the Bible talks about as false prophets - I'd be very careful about studying with them and seek God's wisdom and counsel as you do.

Heather is right about their views and how they began. JW have a way of making it seem like they truly know the truth, but are so far from it.


 



I took the definition of what a clut is from dictionary.com and copied and pasted it.  I think that you maybe unsure what a cult actually is.  If you view how they believe as cult like then I would have to say that all religions are simular cults. Cults also imply that they use pagan acts in thier worship and from what I have learned that stay far far away from any of that. 



A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthodox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherents live in groups apart from the rest of society. The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. Their worship is a way of life, not a ritual devotion. They neither follow a human nor isolate themselves from the rest of society. They live and work in the midst of other people.

















1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
















2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
















3. the object of such devotion.
















4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
















5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
















6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
















7. the members of such a religion or sect.
















8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

Krystle - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Jessica:

That's all good to know. What are the negative points to there beliefs or are there any? What is it that they teach, exaclty? I was just reading that Jehovah's witnesses try to seperate themselves from the world to the point of only socializing with other witnesses, it also said that it does not allow its members to question their beliefs to the point of being forced to leave the temple.


They have told me the reason they separate themselves from the world is so that they can protect themselves from the un-holy acts of the world.  They don't want to get caught up in what is wrong in God's eyes.  They aim to show respect to and please Jehovah.  But that doesn't mean that they don't socialize with non-witnesses, they don't involove themselves in unclean acts.



About questioning thier beliefs, they've always encouraged me to question.  They have shared that if I didn't question then how would I learn and that's how they have learned and keep learning.  Then, touching a bit on Heather's comment, they have encouraged me to read other sources that are not published by them, ecspessially historical facts.  Those who do not follow God's standard are "kicked out." They have showed me a few examples of God "kicking out," one being when 23,000 fornicators were cut off from Isreal in one day. (1 Cor 10:8) Antoher, the first "cut-off" being when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden.  Then there is the scripture that talks about not mixing in bad/unclean company.  I'll find it... Although, one can be readmitted after being kicked out if truly repentant.

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Heather, I fully agree with you. I have also studied the Jehovah's WItness beliefs and you have presented them very well here. I believe they are a cult from what I have learned in my studies.

Rebekah - posted on 06/10/2009

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I truly believe Jehovah Witness is a cult, not an "occult", but a cult. They have a tendency to mislead the truth of the Word of God by incorrect translation and they'll only take one verse at a time, instead of the chapter in it's entirety to get the whole picture of what the verses are actually talking about. To me a form of what the Bible talks about as false prophets - I'd be very careful about studying with them and seek God's wisdom and counsel as you do.

Heather is right about their views and how they began. JW have a way of making it seem like they truly know the truth, but are so far from it.

Heather - posted on 06/09/2009

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I work with a Jehovah's Witness she recently gave me a NWT Bible, and some other literature. So I know quite a bit right now. So first off, they do not believe in the Trinity, They have mistranslated several Bible verses. John 1:1 is the biggest one to me they have added the word 'a'. Which sounds simple, but isn't they have changed it from "the Word was god." to "the Word was 'a' god". They believe that Jehovah God created Jesus, and Jesus is not Co-eternal. They do not believe that Jesus is God, but a god, because they believe that all angels are gods, including satan. (Jesus and satan are equal? I dunno how they get around that one.)

Second, their Bible was translated (I use this word lightly) by a man named Charles Tait Russel, and he could not read, write or speak Hebrew or Greek... It has been updated since then, but they do not give out the names of the translators....

Third, they do not believe in Hell, and we are not going to Heaven. There will be no women in Heaven. We will live in the new Jerusalem here on earth, everyone else will just cease to exist....

Fourth, they believe that Jesus has already returned. He is invisible, and only his elect know that he is here. He operates out of the Jehovah's Witness' main office in Brooklyn. He returned in 1914 to start his 1000 year reign.

I recommend the book 'Kingdom of the Cults' to anyone who is interested. It compares their beliefs to the Bible, and even gets into where the translation of Hebrew and Greek have been manipulated. I'm not trying to bash on them. The woman that I work with is really one of my good friends. But if you research how they started, they kind of bash themselves. They have been caught in one lie after another. Including selling 'Miracle Wheat' They are generally wonderful people caught up in a lie. I am really not worried about offending anyone because they are not allowed to read anything that is not written by the Watch Tower Organization. They are required to throw away any letter they get that might contradict what they have been taught, before they read it, or they might 'fall away'. They are not allowed to study the Bible by themselves because they would not understand it without the help of the books written by the Watch Tower. They are not allowed to Celebrate the Sabbath... Or any holiday because they are all pagan. Christiandom is the worst thing in their eyes. Which is us by the way. We are children of the devil in their opinion.

They draw people in with saying that the are just vindicating Jehovah's name, but it's not true. Plus nobody in history (other then them) will even verify that YHWH is even pronounced Jehovah. It is a possibility, but most people lean toward Yah Wey.

Please if you have any other questions ask. I have not meant to offend you, but I truly enjoy having you in our community and will miss you dearly if you leave us.

Your Sister in Christ,
Heather

Vicki - posted on 06/09/2009

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I have invited Jehovah's Witnesses into my home dozens of times over the years. I have found them to be warm, knowledgeable, God loving people. I enjoy sharing the word of God with them. Some of the religious aspects are not for me. I think people give them a bad rap, because they haven't taken the time to get to know any on a personal level. We are all God's beloved children.



P.S.

Misinformation is rampant about this religion and its people. Their beliefs are taken straight from the Bible, which was authored by God, penned by many. How can any of us argue with the word of God?

Krystle - posted on 06/09/2009

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Before I go... their purpose is to vindicate Jehovah's name, which is the theme of the Bible.

Krystle - posted on 06/09/2009

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I think with all religions, the ppl who practice them believe there are no negative points in what they believe in and, so far, what I have learned there hasn't been anything negative. Along with all the biblical references, they provide you with historical facts too, which I find very helpful when coming to understand the scriptures. (Let me get back to you tomorrow on your other ?'s, I need to start dinner!!!)

Jessica - posted on 06/09/2009

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That's all good to know. What are the negative points to there beliefs or are there any? What is it that they teach, exaclty? I was just reading that Jehovah's witnesses try to seperate themselves from the world to the point of only socializing with other witnesses, it also said that it does not allow its members to question their beliefs to the point of being forced to leave the temple.

Krystle - posted on 06/09/2009

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They do believe that Jesus is God's (Jehovah's) only-begotten son that was sent to forgive us of our sins. They have explained to me that the reason for not celebrating holidays, birthdays, and etc is bc they have pagan backgrounds. They do celebrate the memorial of Christ's death. In the scriptures they've pointed out that Jesus asks Christians to do so.

Jessica - posted on 06/09/2009

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I had a friend that was a Jehovahs witness and to be completely honest I didn't get it. They don't believe in celebrating Christmas, Easter, or birthdays. That's not the only thing but as a kid I guess that made an impact. Do they believe Jesus was the son of God? Also her dad was really weird but remmber I was just a kid so my memory is probably a little biased. Sorry if this wasn't much help but that is what I know. Out of curiosity I would like to see what others believe as well.

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