Are Women Called to be Leaders?

Heather - posted on 03/11/2011

Jeni, usurping your husband authority as the head the house is no small thing. The relationship in the family is identical to that of a church. Would you dare to usurp the Lord authority? The husband is the head family just like the Lord is the head of the church. Each and every family is its own little church no matter how big or small. If there is no man in the family, the mother then becomes the head and must guide the family in the way of the Lord. I understand what you are attempting to convey, but at the same time the Lord gives us guidelines, but at the same time it is like a recipe and if you are not able to adjust the recipe for the ingredients that you have then you will starve your congregation. The woman who is leading our church right now in every way shape or form does not want to be in the position that she is in. But it is where the Lord has her. No one else could do the job that she does. She spends day and night before the Lord to make sure that she is doing what He has told her to do. The thing that so many forget is that the Lord is the one who is the head of anything, and all of us are to give Him reverence. Everything and everyone else falls into place after Him. He is no respecter of person how is that we are?

Heather - posted on 03/11/2011

I am closing this conversation to further comments at this time. I will discuss it with Anne and Victoria, but I have read some personal attacks and a few other things that concern me. Thank you all for your input and understanding.

Jessy - posted on 03/11/2011

I very well addressed the issue of man ruling over wife! I told that is the part of curse. If women still suffer severe birth pain, men too toil with sweat. All the greed we see today to exploit the earth is part of the curse. But Christ came to redeem us from all curse provided we repent and live a new life which Christ has shown us. I think Jenny altogether misunderstood the term leadership. A Christian leader never tries to dominate irrespective of gender because Christ showed the servant leadership for us to follow. So, a leader doesn't mean that you are bossing over someboby whetehr it is man or woman. If there is servanthood attitude, there is no question of women leadership too. Otherwise, it would have been clearly written in the Bible that the gift of leadership is only for men!! I think we women too accept the traditional attitudes towards women that men take advantage of the same. God never intended men to trash women under the feet. God always looked for a mutual understanding between men and women. I think the misinterpretation of certain Bible passages have caused such chaos that we are responsible for the millions of women who are oppressed and abused by men. I don't disagree with giving respect to men, but they should not use women as use and throw stuff!!! I am not even talking equality in terms of muscle power, but equal status and dignity and using the gifts which God has given us. Otherwise God is at fault by giving us certain gifts!!

Jenny - posted on 03/10/2011

I dont think this is a small issue. Being a woman pastor over your church doesnt just "happen". You don't just slip up and become in charge of your church. We may slip up at home with our husbands and try to overule him, but you cant accidently do this in church as people are chosen for those roles on purpose. And the bible provides us with clear direction as to what type of person we put in charge.



Just read this passage where it defines the roles of oversears, deacons and even adds women in there too....



1 Timothy 3:2-13 "2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.



8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.



11 In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything. 12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well."



This is clearly not a generalisation of the pronoun "he" to mean both he/she. If that was so, it wouldn't make any sense why he then refers specifically to women in verse 11.



Also there is no need to mix this up with free will in Christ and how He died for our sins, when these are completely different issues.

Milla - posted on 03/10/2011

Beautifully put Tracy! A REAL leader does not seek to be sought after, or to be called "a leader" in order to function as one. She/he is a leader because they cannot function as any other. He/she is a REAL BORN LEADER! He/She does not need endorsement, but she/he knows what they are and what they are not.

Tracy - posted on 03/10/2011

I think that all through scripture there are examples of "exceptions" to the rule. Rahab was a prostitute, in spite of the fact that God had issues clear commands against being a prostitute. Ruth was a Moabitess, In spite of the fact that God had forbidden Israel inter-marrying with the nations around them.



The reality is that we get way too caught up on the rules & miss the point entirely! We serve a God of paradoxes. He loves to confound the wisdom of those who consider themselves wise with little things.



You can find contradictions in all sort so places if that's what you're looking for. Rather I suggest that the point is not following all the little rules, but loving the Lord, our God with all our heart, soul, mind & strength & our neighbor as ourselves.



I think the leaders that God uses, regardless of gender, or what the rule book says, are those that know they are beholden to the God of Heaven for their very breath, that they are woefully inept to do the assignment He has commissioned them with and who depend entirely on God grace & God Spirit to "be" a person after his heart, rather than "doing " all the right things. Because whether we know it or not, keeping all the rules is impossible. That is the entire reason Jesus went to that cross. He knew we'd be hopelessly unable to maintain the holiness standard he requires. So in his mercy he gave us his very own robes of righteouness. So, sisters don't sweat the small stuff. Rejoice in God's finished work, & do your best to walk with him. Let him decide where & when he wants to use you.

Heather - posted on 03/10/2011

I think that there are times when we can take things and our fleshly minds to interpret a spiritual passage. I believe that this is what has happened over the years. Paul is speaking to a very specific spirit, and that spirit happens to most often land on women. I am not sure about you other women, but I know me personally, I like to be right. And there are times when I can over step my boundaries and usurp my husband’s authority in my attempt to be right. It inevitably comes out that I was in fact in the wrong, and there you go I end up being the one repenting. This spirit is something that flares quite often and it takes a special woman to keep this spirit in check. The leader of our church at the moment is a woman. It was not always this way. Her husband before her was the "head" (I put this in quotation because it is in fact ultimately God who is the head) and after he passed the elders got together, got before the Lord and asked Him who should lead. The Lord showed them it should be her. The Lord will choose whom he may. He had a donkey once speak because no one else would. It matters not if it is male, female, an a**, or sparrow, he will get his word out. We have to stop putting Him in a box and saying that there is only one way to worship him; only one person or sex that can preach his gospel. I believe His book cover to cover, and I have always had a tremendous fondness for Apostle Paul. Paul knew what he was talking about, and if you read him closely, he never put God in a box either.

Jenny - posted on 03/10/2011

It might sound beautiful but it makes the bible contradict itself :/



According to 1 Cor 11:1,16 women could publicly pray and prophesy in church, but they could not teach or have authority over man (1 Tim 2:11,14) as these are two essential functions of the clergy. Also women could not publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy according to 1 Cor 14:34,38.



Anything in the Bible that demonstrates this as not being followed will come off as a contradiction.



On the other hand we could say that yes Deborah was a phrophetes (which is not prohibited) and she judged the people of Israel from under a palm tree (not in the temple courts). Also she may seemed to have lead the Israelites into battle, but it was done through Barak not herself.



Whenever Deborah speaks to Barak it is as a direct prophecy from God, and not instruction from herself. Eg Judges 4:14 “And Deborah said to Barak, Up! For this is the day when the Lord has given Sisera into your hand. Is not the Lord gone out before you? So Barak went down from Mount Tabor with 10,000 men following him.”



As for how exactly does she judge the people of Israel, it is not specified, but in consistency with the text i would say that she would judge them through God’s direct judgment. I does not read that she taught the people, nor that she had authority over them. She conceded her authority to the man who was put in charge and allowed him to dictate the people through the words that God had spoken to her as his prophet.



I'm sure that if you do a study on all the other women mentioned in the Bible you would find that they never taught a man within the church or assumed a position of spiritual authority over a man.



(p.s There is no issue with Susannah Wesley teaching her sons John & Charles Wesley in the ways of the Lord. This is consistent with the Biblical role of mothers as per Proverbs 1:8 “Hear, my son, your father’s instruction and do not forsake your mother’s teaching.” Proverbs 6:20 “My son, observe the commandment of your father and do not forsake the teaching of your mother.”)

Carla - posted on 03/10/2011

Beautiful, Tracy

Tracy - posted on 03/10/2011

I would respectfully suggest that those who feel women are not called to be leaders are not reading the same Bible as me. How do they explain Deborah, or Lydia, or even Dorcus. Also historically, not just in the Bible, there have been countless ladies who stood in the gap for her family & her community. How about Susannah Wesley? John & Charles would not have been the men they were if they had not been lead by their mother & carried before God's throne on a daily basis.

I think the problem is the definition of leadership. Leaders train the body to do the work God has called the church to do. Sometimes they use the pulpit to do it. But many more times they use the piano keyboard, kitchen stove, farm tractor, garden hoe, or mini-van.

They show up on home & school committees, hospital auxiliaries, in Sunday School classrooms. They sit in the stands at their sons or daughters hockey games or piano recitals, drive great distances to karate or basketball tournaments, or just a few blocks to deliver their kids safely to school. They provide safe places for children to play, or an ear to listen to a young person who is struggling with life.

They extend God's grace in a world were grace is scarce and back-stop the people around them with nourishing meals & sustaining prayers that they never even know about.

They live lives of discipline in front of their children. They have hands that help others, They are vulnerable as well. and hearts that draw them back to God's throne of grace because they know they can't do it on their own.

My own mother use to tell me "a good wife runs the household in such a way that her husband thinks he's doing it." Men like John & Charles Wesley know they stand on the shoulders a great women like Susanna. Who quietly passed an relationship with God that empowers & encourages generations long after she's gone.

The men who stand up in front of us every week, if they are smart, know that this is not the ministry that God uses every day. It's a cool drink for those who are on the front lines of the battle. For those who are preparing their children for the lives God has called them to, and who gracious release them to capable hands of God's Spirit in prayer from the day they are born until they leave this world.

Carla - posted on 03/10/2011

What happens when there are too many leaders and no one to lead? Chaos. So however we wish to look at marriage, the man leads. But if you look at Ephesians 5:21-31, Paul starts out with submitting ourselves to one another. This is how the Godhead rules, and God wants that for us. If we submit, or serve, one another, there is no ego or power struggle, because we both are careful for each others needs. But he gave men a much heavier weight to carry: Men are to give their lives for their wives in order to protect them. This protection isn't just physical, it is also emotional and spiritual. He is to make sure his wife's spiritual well being is flourishing. He says no man ever hated his body, but cherishes and nourishes it. He is to do the same for his wife. He is to make sure the children are in order. He will be responsible for their actions. This passage does NOT blend with the theory that the man is the king of the castle and the woman and children his slaves. This man is thinking constantly of how he can please his wife, and how he can make her life easier. I Peter 3:7 says if men DO NOT take this care of their wives, their prayers will be hindered. On the woman's side, Proverbs 31 tells what a Godly woman does. She buys property, she has a home business, she plants their vineyard, she runs the house. Both these people have their own duties, and together, they make a successful union. No job is more or less important.



This is a little off-topic, I realize, but I think it's important to understand we are not chattel, to be traded away or treated badly.



And maybe we got a little confused between leadership and ministry. I believe strongly in women leaders within the church body. We NEED Godly role models for our girls coming into womanhood. We need Sunday School teachers to teach our children Godly values and how to be good husband and wives, like to the teens.



I am secure and okay with my husband being the head of our household. He is fairly newly saved, so I have to be sort of the teacher at Bible Study, but I am trying to get him equipped so he can take over that spot. I am not comfortable teaching him.



God bless, all

Jenny - posted on 03/10/2011

okay so maybe the helper was not a strong enough argument for you. But you did nothing to address the part where it says "And he will rule over you."
And a suitable helper is still a helper. Its still the man we must help, not him help us.

And when you say God helps us that is quite different. He cleary states that he is God so there is no question about who helps and who is the leader.
If you twist the analogy and say the since God is our helper then we rule over him, you are missing the point because it says the woman was made as a suitable helper and the man will rule over her. So there is no possible case that the woman is so supreme (like our God is) that she must help man, who is the lesser. Your argument doesnt really hold up very strongly.

We still live under the curse because we are on earth. You can pretend all you want that we no longer live under the curse, but it is still clear that we do becaust the chilbirth for a woman is still painfully sever.

Jesus is the perfect person we can never be and so only through this can we enter into heaven. But im not going to get into that here, its kind of off topic if you ask me. No where did Jesus proclaim to the woman that the curse is now lifted from you and your husand shall no longer rule over you. Dont mix up the attitudes of the pharises towards women, because they liked to add to the word of God and make it impossibly hard to follow. they put presusers on us that God had not intended. Just because we are helpers does not mean we get treated like trash. Because the man must be willing to die for us just like Christ has died for the church. Dont confuse men being leaders of women as women having no rights.

Jessy - posted on 03/10/2011

I think Jenny has misunderstood the meanings of those words! If helper means just helping like a servant, then God is our helper and we need to exercise leadership over him! You mentioned only about helper, what about the word 'suitable'? That is exactly what you mean 'corresponding to'. Also curse was not just to woman alone, all the three were responsible for the sin and equally cursed though the type of suffering is different. Why do we want to still live under the curse when Jesus has redeemed us from the curse and given both man and woman salvation? We normally interpret some verses in the light of Gen.3 i.e. from the fall of human. Why don't we see it from the beginning of creation? God is looking for a humanity who will fulfill the original intention of creating them. Don't live under the curse!!!

Jenny - posted on 03/09/2011

If there was no partiality why did he make one with the capability to house an unborn child and one to not?



If there was no partiality, why did he say "I will make a helper suitable for him" and not "i will make him an equal companion". How is a helper equal to the person he/she is helping? Is it not logical to assume that the one that is being helped is the leader of the helpee? If the word leader is hard to swallow, how about "delegator?" That would make sense.



If there is no partiality why did God declare to the woman “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”



Again, "And he will rule over you." Who was the leadership given to then? I would assume from that verse that the leadership was given to the Man and not to both the Man and the Woman equally. It reads clear to me that one shall rule over the other, not that both shall rule equally.

Jessy - posted on 03/09/2011

I think God has made women too in His own image and likeness and there was no partiality in anything whether it is rule over the earth or salvation or discipleship or even leadership. God has given gifts to all irrespective of gender that includes leadership too. How can we stop them from exercising it when God intended them to use it with accountability??

Paula - posted on 03/08/2011

Yup- I agree!

Carla - posted on 03/08/2011

This lady, Katrielle, I don't know where Alexandra got this article, how far it's been spread, over the Internet, in a magazine, etc, but she has relegated the teachings we hold dear to the unenlightened past. I enjoy a good debate as well as the next, but I try to be respectful of the text I am talking about. Some of the Bible's teachings rubbed me the wrong way, too--but I STILL have to honor and revere them as God's Word, and I ask Him for the meaning. If His answer isn't what I want to hear, I know I need to check my attitude and adjust accordingly.

We have had some topics lately that bring fire from both sides. We may add our opinions, but in the final outcome, we have to bow to our Lord. I hope that we all have heard something that causes us to think, and brings us closer to Jesus, because that is what this community is for.

God bless

Paula - posted on 03/08/2011

Thanks for answering. I think questioning God's word w/o angst is called growing- growing in a clearer understanding. For example, if I didn't ask this question, how would I be able to learn- even through your answer? If God is the God of the universe, which I believe He is, He is more powerful than anything- certainly a God more powerful than anything can handle anything I have to say to Him. People in relationships grow when they talk to each other. Now questioning WHY with resentment is different- but asking a question to have something cleared up is called learning.

Carla - posted on 03/08/2011

If God's Word never changes, and we believe the Holy Spirit inspired Paul's writings, I believe he would say absolutely the same thing today. Our Bible is not a living document, able to change as the cultures change. When Paul, through the Spirit said he would not allow a woman to usurp authority over a man, this is to be taken as a Word from God. Women have their ministries, someone mentioned Joyce Meyers, but she ministers to women.

Taking this author's words, that this antiquated attitude toward women is disrespectful, I would think that questioning God's Words to us is disrespectful to Him. WE MUST BE CAREFUL.

God bless

Paula - posted on 03/08/2011

If Paul were alive today- do you think he would still say that? He was responding to questions asked of him during that time in history wasn't he? And though the Holy Spirit led him to answer the way he did (like both sides of this argument could agree on) The Holy Spirit also leads many people to do things and say things in this century too which may differ from life all those years ago. Jesus himself said that the Spirit is like the wind, you cannot tell where it is going or where it is coming from. Why would the God who made this world so diverse and called people to spread the Good News limit half the population in doing so?

Carla - posted on 03/08/2011

I agree, Linda, 100%! When we stick to God's Plans for our homes, our churches, we WILL benefit.

Sometimes God tells us something for our personal lives that we chafe at a little. If we submit to His Will, we always prosper. This topic may chafe a little, but if we submit ourselves to God, it will be easy to submit to the authority HE gave us.

God bless, all

Linda - posted on 03/08/2011

Vicky, I completely agree with you on equality of women. I in no way consider myself inferior to my husband. Paul was clear that in Christ, there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek. I also agree that you need to look at Scripture in context. That said, looking at the 1 Timothy passage in context, a woman is not to have authority over a man. There's no getting around it. The reasoning goes back to creation so it's not a culture thing. If you look at the Greek word used ,authenteo, the connotation is to act of oneself, to dominate, or to usurp authority over. Contrast this to the word, translated as authority in verse 2, which is huperoche, or superiority in rank. Paul was in not way saying that women are inferior to men; however there is an established order with which we should not interfere, a chain of command, so to speak. The Church will always function better when we stick to God's plan.

Vicky - posted on 03/08/2011

All translations are just that, translations. And it is not cliche that things get lost in translation. When truly studying a text, we must refer back to the original, paying careful attention to context, verb tense, noun genders, etc. If we look at Paul's writings as a whole, we see that he was radically for women, and their key role in the spread of the Gospel message. 1 Cor 7, Paul carefully lays out equal marriage or singleness for both men and women, unheard of in the 1st century.

Woman was given to man as a special helper, the Hebrew term here is not one of a lesser being but of a powerful one. When struggling with a math problem, do you go to someone smarter than you, or someone not so smart? When faced with a bully - a bigger stronger helper, or a smaller weaker one? The word is for a more powerful, more intelligent, more capable helper. The Hebrew term also has a second component which means "equal". A helper corresponding to him; equal and adequate to himself. Woman was created not to serve man, but to serve with him.

We were created in the image of God, both male and female. Our relationship, woman to man, reflects the relationship of Jesus to the Father. Jesus is not less than the Father; he is fully God and equal in all ways. Jesus chose to serve the Father and chose to serve us, and by doing so was exalted by the Father to the highest place and given the name that is above every name. Women are not less than men by nature, but by choosing to serve our husbands we reflect what Christ did for us.

Carla - posted on 03/08/2011

I Timothy 2:9-15 talks about how women are to conduct themselves, with modesty, sobriety, professing godliness with good works. 5:14-15, that younger women marry, bear children, guide the house and conduct themselves without reproach. I Timothy 2:12-15 tells why. Woman were deceived, and sinned. Paul spells out very clearly what our role is to be. We can counsel women, we can teach women and children, we can share, with our husbands, counsel of married couples, we can lead singers, but we are NOT to teach men. We cannot read our Bibles, not like what is said, so find another translation or vision to fit our liking. II Thessalonians 2:11-15 talks about in the Last Days a strong delusion would come upon the earth and so to hold fast the traditions which have been taught, by Paul's letters.



We HAVE to be very careful about WHAT we hold as Gospel, and what we teach.



God bless, all

Linda - posted on 03/08/2011

1 Timothy 2 clearly says that a woman is not to have authority over a man. Furthermore, the reason given pre-dates the fall--it is "For Adam was formed first." There is no indication that this is talking about a specific woman; Paul would not have referred back to Adam and Eve if this was the case. I don't pretend to understand all of 1 Timothy 2. However, Paul is clear in these directions. This is not to say that women can't have significant roles in the church. I teach Sunday school to junior high students. I would not teach an adult Sunday school class if men were in the class. This is just being obedient to the Word.

Frances M - posted on 03/08/2011

Mirium was a prophet and a music leader.

Deborah was a prophet and a judge in Israel. That's when Judges led Israel.

In the new testament there are women who stood out after Jesus died.

Find out what your gifts are and that will lead you into the ministry that God has called you to. If you are a teacher teach. etc.

In 1992 God called me to be manager of a 93 family complex that grew to over 200. That story is located at:
http://www.pennywind.com click on "I've Seen & Heard of Jesus", click on mission field, click on God's call to read about it.
Exo 15:20-21 Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took the timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. And Miriam answered them: "Sing to the LORD, For He has triumphed gloriously! The horse and its rider He has thrown into the sea!"

Judg 4:4-5 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time. And she would sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the mountains of Ephraim. And the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

1 Tim 4:14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership

1 Pet 4:10 As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

1 Cor 12:7-10 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Vicky - posted on 03/07/2011

Paul's statement in Timothy is often misinterpreted. The original Greek points to this passage referring to a specific woman, who was teaching false doctrine. The new 2011 version of the NIV translates the passage a little better, more accurately using masculine, femine, and inclusinve (both male and female) pronouns to be translated specifically. At the end of chapter 1 Paul turned 2 specifically named men over to Satan, yet in this chapter he instructs that A (singular, only one) specific, nameless woman to no longer be allowed to disrupt the worship and instead be educated in the customary manner for many pious students, in "silence and submission". The point is to teach her specifically and correctly. For God created Adam, told him not to eat of the tree, then created Eve. Had Adam taught Eve properly what God had commanded, the serpent would not have been able to deceive her. Paul is advising Timothy to take the time to teach the women in Ephesus (they were uneducated and often times unruly) so that they may become themselves teachers of the truth. Look ahead to 2 Timothy 2:2. The people referred to there that would be qualified to teach others are both male and female. It is unfortunate that we perpetuate the fall when we interpret this passage as withholding half of God's people from fully carrying out his work.

Felicia - posted on 03/07/2011

Slavery in the Bible was more servant based, but like with all things, we (people) know how to take something and manipulate it to work for us and in the end it becomes abusive and just plain wrong.

Felicia - posted on 03/07/2011

I will have to research again, but women were being leaders in those times as teachers of the Word. Today, we have women in the pulpit and the man is in the congregation, but that is not to say that the man is still not head of his household. Everyone has a ministry, according to God's Word, whether teachers, minister's, administrators, encouragers, faith, leaders, etc. We all have a part to play, we just have to do our role for the Glory of God.

Susan - posted on 03/07/2011

I think that some of you are wrong. Women are not equal to men. We are to be their helpmeet. We are to be the one that stands by them and helps them along. As far as being a leader, women are to be leaders over other women, instructing them to learn to love their husbands and teach the younger ones to keep house, etc. Joyce Meyers generally talks to women. I have seen men in the group but I am not sure that she is necessarily addressing the men in her talks. We should be trying to make our men the leaders. If they do not take that role then God will not lay the blame on us, but on the men. However, if we try to usurp the role of the men as leaders, then God will deal with us. Some times, in the Bible, a woman was considered a Judge, but I do not think that she totally took over that role, but maybe even made decisions over other women. This would make sense, in the context of the Bible. Women can be used of God without taking the "leadership" role.

Rebekah - posted on 03/05/2011

Hmmm... interesting blog... how about this take...

While the New Testament does not tell us specifically what pastors did, we do know that both men and women provided spiritual leadership for churches which met in their homes. In the early church, almost all Christian meetings were held in private homes. Among these house-church pastors was Mary, the mother of John Mark, who later became a missionary with the apostles Paul and Barnabas. It was to her house church that Peter came in Acts 12:12 after an angelic visitor set him free from prison. The Bible says that many had assembled there and were praying, no doubt petitioning God for Peter's release. Their prayers were answered!

Another house church leader was Chloe, according to I. Corinthians 1:11. In that passage, Paul relates that "some of Chloe's household " had reported that there was strife among the Corinthian Christians. Those Chloe sent with this message to Paul were probably Christians who were members of her house church. They may have been relatives or household servants, or they may have been Christians who lives in the area and gathered at her home for worship. These believers would have come under Chloe's spiritual guidance, care and protection. But Chloe's influence extended beyond her own flock. Evidently, she had sent a deputation from her house church to Paul, who knew her or knew of her, to inform him of the need for correction in the Corinthian church. She was a trusted leader and source of reliable information for the apostle Paul.

Acts 16:14-15, 40 tells us about Lydia, Paul's first European convert to Jesus, who offered Paul hospitality in her home. Scripture relates that when Lydia was converted, her entire household was baptized and that her home became the first meeting place for European Christians. Lydia was a business woman who traded in valuable, dyed garments. The fact that Scripture mentions no husband or father indicates the high prominence of this woman. Since first-century Greek and Roman women were almost always under the legal guardianship of a husband or father, Lydia may well have been a wealthy widow or only daughter who inherited her parents' estate. Thus, she became the head of her own household. She either managed the family business or developed a business of her own after her husband's or father's death.

The Book of Acts says that Lydia's entire household was baptized upon her conversion to Christ. This follows the custom of ancient Roman families. Under paganism, household gods were believed to protect and help the family and its enterprises. Thus, it was the duty of members of these households, relatives, slaves, and their families to worship the gods adopted by the head of the household.

Roman households were often large since almost all businesses were home-based before the industrial age. Those who worked for Lydia in her business, and possibly others engaging in the trade who belonged to the dye-makers guild, would have been among her converts. By virtue of her position as head of household, Lydia had the opportunity and responsibility to lead all of its members to Christ and then to establish and lead them in the faith. This put her in a similar position to the modern-day pastor. To fulfill part of this responsibility, Lydia invited Paul to come and preach in her home.

Paul and Silas established their gospel mission headquarters in Lydia's house and no doubt preached there regularly. After their release from prison, Scripture tells us that they returned to Lydia's and, having met with the brethren, exhorted them. This may have been the first church planted on European soil, and its pastor was a woman.

Another New Testament woman who led a house church was Nympha (Col. 4:15). Paul sent greetings to her and to the church at her house. Some modern scholars try to get around this by saying that Nympha was "just" the hostess, not the pastor. If that were so, who did pastor her house church, and why would Paul so rudely fail to greet the pastor as well as the hostess?

I believe God calls BOTH men and women in leadership roles. I don't believe a woman needs to be under the headship of a man though.

Victoria - posted on 03/04/2011

I have been in leadership in our Church for several years now. This past Sunday I became a Pastor at the licensed Ministers level. My hubby is an Ordained Minister.

I am in submission to my husband, I am under the leadership of a male senior pastor and yet God uses me in ministry in all levels of the Church.

I know I am called, I know God uses me, preaches and teaches through me. I am a ministry partner to my husband as he is with me. God has gifted us both with different things & He uses us both to minister in very different ways, but He does use us both.

Should women be in leadership? Absolutely, but the same thing applies to both men & women, you should only be in the place & position, God is calling you to be.
Leaders have a higher accountability, so if you are going into any form of leadership you need to be sure you are called.

Milla - posted on 03/04/2011

Sarah, I do understand and agree with what you are saying about not respecting those placed in authority and leadership roles in the church. Our Pastor shared with us why people have a hard time respecting, is because the don't accept that authority, and the reason being has to do with the matters of the heart of that person, simply put, the person resisting authority, does not think that the leader is "good enough", or they think that they themselves can do it better, or would do it differently. But what they forget is that the leader has the authority because one way or another he has been placed in that position of authority, and our job is to accept those leaders and respect them.

Our pastor shared how before he became a pastor, and he was young just starting out and learning from the senior pastor and leaders. There were times when he wouldnt agree with the pastor, and think to himself, I can do this better, or I would do it differently. And guess what, there came a time when God told him, lets see how you do? Now you are a pastor go and do your job. When pastoring, having to deal with different people all the time, the leaders, and church memebrs, there is always some that are not happy, theres always those that judge you, always those that don't like the way you do things.

The pastor said, it is then that he realized how hard it is to be in leadership, and how leaders and pastors are in need of encouragement and help from their team and church members.

Basically he said that he realized that what those people are doing to him is exactly what he did to his pastor when he was young. So he says do not judge your pastor or leaders, but first and foremost --pray for them, step out and offer your help, be there to love on them and offer them encouragemnt. It is easy to judge someone, how bout directing that energy towards helping them, this way you will reap the reward with them, otherwise, you will be asking for judgement yourself.

The bible also call us to respect and pray for those in leadership, whether in the church or leaders of government.

Carla - posted on 03/03/2011

Very eloquently put, Milla.

Sarah - posted on 03/03/2011

Milla, you have said some very wise things. I love your apple tree illustration. And yes, I am talking about traditional man and wife marriages.

I feel part of the problem comes down to many in the church not having due respect for those whom God has placed in authority and they are not prepared to be led. Too many people have their own agenda at heart rather than seeking God's will, and trusting God appointed leadars.

As far as the validity of views go, as humans we are all shaped to a certain extent by our experiences, education, social circles etc. It would be extremely difficult to have objective views that were unrelated to our experiences.

Milla - posted on 03/03/2011

@Sarah......Regarding Katrielle, I am convinced that she was wounded somehow someway by men, and she is carrying this resentment and bitterness toward men. I could sense it through her writing.

And regarding her views being valid, I disagree. I don't share her views, judging by the sense I get from her writing.

You see, if one does not let go of offenses, and bitterness, the previous experiences they hold toward a certain subject, then later on, they will not be able to have a valid view on that subject. Their view will be influenced by their previous experiences which they are holding on to, and thus distorted. In this case we are talking about men. Until the writer realizes and lets go of all those things, she will not be able to have clear view on those subjects.

Milla - posted on 03/03/2011

@Sarah....I do agree with what you said at the end, "mutual respect for each other, based on a Godly desire to build each other up", that is very true, our relationship must be based on mutual respect otherwise it wont work, and I do agree that IT IS God's plan for a husband and wife to build each other up, just as it is in God's plan for us to build each other up in the church and not tear down.

I myself have nothing against women being leaders, in fact I feel as though I myself am "a leader in training". It is a wonderful thing to realize that God trusts me, believes in me and is willing to use me, knowing how unperfect I am, it is a humbling thing.

And I am not saying that there's something wrong with those families that are not living in traditional ways, but it depends what traditions we are talking about. As far as what you mentioned where the dad stays home and takes care of kids, well, we have friends that do that same thing, and it does not get in the way of them respecting each other and living in peace and harmony.

The thing is that most women, if put in a situation like that, where she makes the money, or she makes more money than her husband, most women will not be able to respect their husbands as they should, they start to feel superior to their husbands, and to put him down. The only way the couple could remain happy in that arrangement is if the woman realizes this and she is in submission first to God, then to her husband.

Joyce Meyer is one of my favorite teachers, and she is a wonderful example of the not so traditional family as we are talking about. Joyce says, that she is a preacher/ teacher outside the home, but when she is at home, she is Dave's wife, she respects and honors her husband, and his decisions.

By traditional marriages i hope we are talking about the same thing, where the mom stays home taking care of kids, and the father is the bread winner and works outside the home. Let's not get mixed up with other "non traditional families" now a days, where the mom or the dad is replaced with another "mommy" or daddy", I do not support those kind of unions as they are not biblical.

I am reminded of a sermon Joyce preached about being chistian. And I think we could very well apply it to being a leader as well, a christian leader.

So she talks about a tree, how it does not have to stand there and pretend its an apple tree, and tell everyone " i'm an apple tree! i'm an apple tree!" People see that its an apple tree just by looking at its fruits!

And so we as christians and leaders living by God's standards and values, we wont need to tell people that "WE ARE CHRISTIANS", they will know us by the fruit we produce, they can tell that we are gifted to be a leader, it is a natural ability, in you from birth.

Also I believe that we are all as christians called to be leaders, in our home, in the circle of influence where God has placed us. I believe that there are way more leaders with no pulpit than there are "Leaders with pulpits".

One does not need a pulpit to act as a leader, he/she only needs to realize what God called them/us to, and that is to go and teach others about the Gospel of Christ and the power of God unto salvation of all mankind!

Every man, woman, old and young, children even can do this!!!

The reason I said that about being leaders, is because there are too many leaders today, that have no one following them, or that are leading on a path to destruction as they themselves are not following Christ.

The FIRST thing that each and every human being is called to---> is to know God, the power of His saving Grace, His salvation which He makes available to us through Jesus Christ. To remain, abide on the vine, having constant and consistent fellowship with the Father through the Son! This is confirmed in the first commandement to love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul, with all your being!!!

And the second ---> is to love your neighbor as yourself! To show love and mercy to your neighbor, you being the ambassador of Christ Jesus here on earth, are responsible to tell those around you that we are in this world but not of it, that we have a heavenly Father, who is eagerly wanting to adopt us into His family, but we must make the first step, admit our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts!

Thats it! It's that simple! Love the Lord, and love what He loves---People!

To come back to the topic of leadership, a leader will not need to defend his position, or prove anything to people. The annointing on his/her life, their fruit of their life will speak for them! and to those who do not agree or understand, well, let them disagree. I would tell them to talk to God about that, take it up with Him as He is the one that gifted you and placed you in this position.

We have no time to argue, we have no time to loose. The church needs to stop all the quarreling and do what it was created for, to be the body of Christ. To be His hands, His feet, His eyes, His ears. To see the injustice being done to the orphans and to act on it. To hear the cries and the hunger of the world not only for physical bread but also for spiritual bread/ Word of God and to act on it, to be Christs hands offering Love and affection, to be His feet and take the Gospel of Love to all the corners of the world.

Wow, this thing is just flowing, can you feel that? I am realizing more and more that writing is one of God's gifts in me, it just comes so natural =)

Linda - posted on 03/03/2011

@Milla: thank you for taking the time to write that! It was very good. Everyone will be happier when we function the way Gods intends.

Sarah - posted on 03/03/2011

I'm afraid I find some of these responses very patronising to the author of this article. It doesn't matter whether she's married or not, her views are still valid.

I agree that men and women are equal to God in value and worth, and also that taking on different roles wthin the home and church complement each other. However, it is not the case that all women are programmed to want/ need the same things . We all have a unique blend of characteristics and personalty traits that make us who we are, and they do not necessarily occur in a traditional way.

We have some friends with a very loving, caring family life, where the husband stays at home and home educates, whereas the wife goes out to work. Each of them is suited to the roles they have agreed together to take on.

There are numerous examoles from the Old and New of women in positions of authority and as teachers, for example, Esther, Priscilla and Junia,

Paul was speaking to a specific context, and of course it is the word of God then as now, I feel it is important to draw the main points out of passages such as this, namely, mutual respect for each other, based on a Godly desire to build each other up.

Milla - posted on 03/02/2011

Wow, after reading this so much has come that I want to share with you, I hope you will take the time to read this as I took the time to write it. I know its a lot, but it will bless you =)))))))))

After reading what Katrielle had to say, I am left with a sense that she is bitter and is resentful toward men. I will not be surprised if the writer is not married and she is in her pursuit of "modern femininity", what the modern culture says a woman ought to be. And with no offense, it sounds like she is a feminist?!?!? Just my opinion.

Our culture, society as we know it now, has been influenced by the feminist movement which said that we women are same as men, we are equal. It depends what we are talking about.

First of all, women and men are equal in worth, or value, but their functionality is different at the core, even our physiology (our bodies) prove that.
We are equal in worth, but different in function. Different is not bad, different is unique, it is good. Different is in no way inferior. We are all, men and women, alike, created in Gods image, we are unique and valuable to God. Dear women, God's design is wonderful, if we understand it that is!

At this I want to say that God created a woman to complete a man, he created the woman from the man, and the two shall become one. God looked at everything He created and said it was good, until He looked at the man and said "it is not good for the man to be alone, the man was incomplete. Thats why God created for him a woman, that would complete him. This was God's divine design for a man and a woman to unite, to cling to one another, to complete one another, to become one. The next command was to be fruitful and multiply, then to subdue the earth.

I believe that every woman is called first of all to be a wife(to cling and become one flesh) and a mother(to be fruitful and multiply), ministry outside the home, and everything else (the subdue and rule part) is last.

When a woman marries, she does not loose her identity, her character, she has special abilities and giftings from God, that He wants to be perfected in her and used for His glory.

But first her commitment should be with the husband, then children, then "ministry" or whatever outside the home.

If the woman is not married then she is to serve God with her abilities and giftings for His glory, as it is written,un unmarried woman is to please God, or she seeks to please God, where as the married woman seeks to please her husband. And thats how God wants it.

First he wants us women to be committed to Him, then it pleases Him, for us to please our husbands, I mean in a healthy way. In a way that would let him know that you love him and care for him. The first thing a woman does that tells her husband that she loves him, is respect him as a leader, authority, as the one who has the last word.

A man desires deeply to have his wifes respect, and adoration. As this need/ desire, it is planted in them by God at his creation. And us women have this inner need/desire to be loved and accepted, also planted in us by God at our creation.

That is exactly why God commands for us women to obey, or listen to our husbands as we would /or do obey God. And to the husband He commands to "love your wives as you love your bodies". God knows that a man respects, loves and takes care of his own body. Also to love their wives as Christ loved the church! God uses those analogies, sort of as comparisons to help men understand how they are to love their wives. God created us women, with an inner need to be loved and accepted unconditionally, because that is how Christ loved the church. Christ is the head of the church and the church is the body, so Christ (the head) so loved his body (the church) that He died on the cross for her. He loved her even unto death, gave his life for her.

To this I would like to add, that we women cannot expect for our husbands to love us unconditionally if we do not give them respect, adoration, and appreciation.

I have learned in our 10 years of marriage, that our needs are so intertwined and dependant on one another. I cannot feel loved if my husband does not show me love in a way that is understandable to me. Whatever love means to me, that is what he needs to do. My love language is help, if any of you are familiar with Gary Chapmans book, "five love languages" strongly recommend for everyone to read, to find your love language, and how to tell others love language. When my husband helps me, it just melts my heart-it speaks louder than words ever could. When he is helping me its as if he is speaking a silent language "I-l-o-v-e-y-o-u"!

This is the type of woman that the man will give up his life for, the one that is humble in her ways, gives him respect, puts himself above her, the one that adores him and makes him feel like a King of his Jungle (home), where he is always welcome and always accepted, not criticized or scrutinized for making a mistake, even when he comes home without a dinner once in a while---and she is still happy to see him! =) Yes for this woman, he would die.

Someone could argue that with this woman he would want to live, it's the opposite of that woman that he would want to die "from". lol =) Also true =))))

Let's remember that scripture tells for us women to live in a such a way, that would bring our husbands to submit to Christ even without our words. Meaning preach to our husbands, reach out to them with our actions, let our life do the talking on this one.

Basically what I want to say, is that when we give the man what he needs, there is nothing stopping him from giving us what we need. He is then energized and freed to make you feel like the Queen. He is not threatened by you, he is sattisfied and relaxed, and he is looking for who to lavish his love and affection upon!!! =) Ahh this soo excites me!!! Makes me want to be even a better wife. =)

Let me give you an example of what I mean:
We have 3 kids, 7 yr daughter, 4 yr old son, and a 6 week old baby boy. As I was leaving to church tonight with the older daughter and baby, hubby and middle son staying at home because they are sick, cold/fever all that not so good stuff. As i was leaving kitchen was a mess, dirty dishes, crumbs on floor, tons of laundry to fold... i have not been able to keep up with everything as my baby has been fussy last few days, spending half the day in my arms basically.
Girls...guessss what??? I came back home to a clean kitchen!!! Not a single dirty dish, while I was at bible study tonight, my love must have spent that whole time cleaning the kitchen, and mind you....this is the man that was telling me before we got married, don't ask me to do the dishes or make the bed, these two things i hate doing! I immediately noticed the difference as soon as I walked in the door……and ………I could hardly believe my eyes, I …was .....speeechless. I just didnt know what to say!!! I was just stunned speechlesss, this man reallllllllllllllllly loves me!!!! =))))) And he didnt even have to say that to me!!!!! His actions spoke the message clearly!!!! I almost wanted to ask if that was my early 10th Anniversary present, as tomorrow is our Anniversary! =))

I believe that I am reaping the rewards right now, for having submitted and continue to do that, first to God, then to my husband! God had to deal with me on this subject, because I had no trouble accepting Gods authority, I wanted to please God, and cared not what my husband said. And the holy spirit rebuked me and said, that if I want to please God, I must hear what my husband has to say, I must respect him, and do what it takes so that he knows that i love and care for him, as long as it is not sin. Because even if I am a saint, but my husband complains to God about me, hhhmmmmm, God will not be pleased with me and I will not have peace in my heart or my home.
So I'd better get it right, I thought =). And having made it this far, and seen my hubby turn in to a MAN who can sacrifice himself for me, for his children, I am pleased!!! And I say thank you Lord for changing me first and helping me to become the kind of spouse that completes her husband. Oh girls there is such blessing in that "submission" thing that many women still dread. We are living proof that these principles are Godly, they DO work!

Another thing that I heard someone say, is that a leader must first learn to follow, it takes humbleness to do that. One must accept the authority of another, and walk in obedience to the leader, only then can God promote them to be a leader. God will only promote a woman to leadership, if she has learned to walk in obedience to her spouse and ultimately to God!
The thing that we need to remember is that the bible says that there is no male or female in Christ, we are all spirit, and all equal before God. Man and woman are both of the same value-worth to God. Neither one is either superior or inferior. But we do have different functions. And the other thing is that God will use any ready, willing and available vessel. He sees a job that needs to be done, and the vessel that is good for that job, that is available is the one that He will use, God does not care who the vessel is, male or female, as long as God gets all the glory!!!!!!! His glory He will not share with anyone!!!

The reason there are males and females now, I believe is for the time being, while we are here on earth, God made us different so we can complete each other, and together fulfill His plan for us.
Once we are in heaven, we will have glorified bodies, and I believe that all our needs and desires will be met just by being in the presence of Jesus!!! (that is if we will have any other desires besides just wanting to worship Jesus and being overjoyed that we made it) =))
Another thing the writer says is about the word, how it was written a long time ago, as if she questions how credible it is??? My answer to that is, God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is steadfast and changes not!!! God is the only constant in the world ever!
Constant-not changing or varying; uniform; regular; invariable:, steadfast; firm in mind or purpose; resolute:, something that does not or cannot change or vary.

If we cannot believe God, and take Him at His word, then what can we believe or trust??? The Bible is God's word, Spirit breathed, born! it has no time, because God is the same yesterday, today and forever. God's word is the alpha and omega, yea and amen. With God was the beginning and God has the final say.
The way that the writer is upholding her stance by attacking men is not biblical, after reading this article, I feel disturbed, and that I think has to do with the type of spirit/feeling that the writer was writing with. I pray that God brings healing to her soul that she let go of all bitterness and offenses, as they will only hinder her from experiencing Gods best for her.

Susan - posted on 03/02/2011

If women weren't called to lead then why was Deborah a judge in the OT? In the NT, why did he call Mary Magdalene to be the first the tell THE Good News: Jesus Has Risen!!!! Yeah, I used to have a negative opinion about Paul's writings, but I respect them due to the time and place he lived and the people he had to deal with. Plus the writings are God-inspired (so who am I to judge what God thinks). Unfortunately, many need this type of discipline today (me too).

Carla - posted on 02/28/2011

Alexandra, if this woman had pointed her remarks to men of the Church, it would have been one thing, but she was very clear that she felt Paul was in error, and giving his opinion as Gospel.



Men that read their Bible and follow it treat their wives and women in general with the respect God expects us to receive. As a matter of fact, in the last church we were in, the pastor held the men to a much higher degree of responsibility, as head of the family, than the woman. He felt that the man had the final responsibility for WHATEVER went wrong in the family.



As for slavery, it has been around for thousands of years. Christian slaves were treated as members of the household, and Paul was very specific about how you treated them.



I feel this woman has a problem with Christianity, period. I feel sorry for anyone that can read the loving words that Paul wrote, yet can't feel the depth of emotion that he writes to all the churches. I pray God give true enlightenment to them.



God bless, all

Alexandra - posted on 02/28/2011

I don't really agree with everything she wrote, but I thought some of her points were interesting, especially since there ARE many men, even in our modern churches, who still take offense to women in leadership. I kind of got the feeling that this woman probably had encountered some strong objections by men with those view points.

I was curious to see how other women felt on the the subject of leadership.

Linda - posted on 02/27/2011

I am with Carla. This post if very troubling. ALL scripture is inspired by God. I realize that there are many who would pick and choose what they like; however, that is not true Biblical Christianity.

Scripture does NOT denigrate women; it elevates them. Just look at cultures throughout the world. In which cultures are women treated as equals? The cultures with a Judeo-Christian heritage. In which cultures are they considered as disposable? In all the others: Muslim, Hindu, etc.

A woman should not have authority over a man; however, there are still many roles and positions of responsibility for women in the church.

Cyndel - posted on 02/27/2011

Slavery in the bible is different.
The kind of slavery that we had in America was outlawed in Israel. The slavery Saul spoke of was similar to indentured service. You need money to pay for a doctor, you get that money from a rich man in exchange for a certain amount of service, months, years, etc. It was very different then how we see slavery in America.

Any way I know this isn't the topic but it is a particular soap box of mine and couldn't resist.

Sarah - posted on 02/27/2011

So do you think that slavery is ok? Paul also gave instructions for how masters and slaves should behave, and never once said that slavery was wrong.

There are examples of female leades in the Bible, such as Deborah.

Carla - posted on 02/27/2011

I find this woman's words very troubling. Jesus Himself called Paul and gave him the very important role of teaching us Gentiles about salvation. I do NOT think Jesus would have given him this role, and then allow him to insert his own opinions as God-inspired. When Paul said he wished that men could be like him and remain unmarried, it was written that these were Paul's words, not the Lord's. And he clearly said it was for 'this present distress' (or time of persecution). It was to protect the wife and children, not to punish them.

We are treading dangerous ground when we bad-mouth the Word of God. Paul wrote most of the NT. If we start doubting what he has written, pretty soon we are doubting what Jesus said. My feeling is that what Paul wrote was with the Holy Spirit sitting right beside him, telling him what to write. The same can be said for Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc.

Just my humble opinion, but I would rather err on the side of following the Bible blindly, than to question and as a result, doubt.

God bless, all