Homosexuality

Annette - posted on 04/26/2009

Thank you Melissa for acknowledgeing some of what I'm trying to say.



I know that the most important thaing we are to do is love. I'll also be woman enough to admit that I don't really know how to show people in that lifestyle the love I should. I'm NOT Jesus. I believe that homosexuality is a demonic spirit, so I struggle with having that spirit around my family.

The other thing that I was trying to say is that are conquences to our choices and actions. I think the Bible is very clear about this. There are blessings for obedience; and curses for disobedience, through out the whole Bible

Melissa - posted on 04/25/2009

I heard one time that there are churches that marry gay people. I also heard that some pastors openly agree with gay marriage. That is why you need to be selective with which church you go to, just because it is a "church" doesnt make it Christian, some churches are very liberal. Agreeing with homosexuality is wrong and is NOT true Christianity.

Annette - posted on 04/25/2009

Here are some Scriptures I've found that talk about homosexuality. And yes, I do and have read all of them in context. So I know what all of it says.

My point was that some denominations and of course the world, think it's alright.I can't understand how some denominations can say homosexulity is OK and condone it! It's just not right! It plainly says it's wrong in the Word! I guess they just want to do; what they want to do. I urge each of you to look it up for yourselves and make your on judgement; before you attack me.



Deuteronomy 28:15-68

Leviticus 18:1-30

Romans 1:18-32

I Corinthians 6:1-19

Colossians 3:1-1

Revalstion 21:1-27



Hope this clears up the confusion about where I stand on this subject and what I was trying to say.

Kristen - posted on 04/24/2009

I think God would want us to show them in a loving and kind way that homosexuality isn't right. Show them scriptures that talk about it and pray with them. Explain to them that if they put it in God's hands they can overcome any desire. It's all about will power and staying true to your faith. I think homosexualtiy is an addiction that can be overcome just like any other addiction if that person is in the right mind set. I truly feel for the woman in the movie you spoke about and hope that I never have to walk in her shoes. But I think it was probably a little exaggerated as far as him hating himself and not being able to help himself. Like I said with the right mind set and prayer you can overcome anything through Jesus Christ.

Melissa - posted on 04/24/2009

All sin is bad, small or big in appearance. Although, the bible does cleary state that when a person is a "homosexual" their mind is far removed from god. The lord created man and women not adam and steve. I personally do not buy that these people who claim to be "gay" were born homosexuals. Like Page said, Romans 12 says "be not comformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of our minds." If people dont get rid of the junk learned from their childhood and filled with a renewed knowledge of who they are in christ, then homosexuality could potentially be the result of a currupted, deterriorating, ungodly mind. I have been saved for about a year and a half now and I still am in a constant process of renewing my mind. Satan works through people minds, becuase our spirit is complete in Jesus, so his only inroad into our lives is through our thoughts. We need to gaurd and protect our minds.



Making others whether they are gay, christian or neither one think that homosexuality is acceptable, is not a Christian viewpoint. If you truly love the person then you would not agree with them. People are influenced by how you live your life. If you are a godly romodel, realize it is out of your control and you are doing everything you can, I wouldnt worry about "feeling bad" for the gay person. It is their choice. You should still be compassionate towards them. "A new commandment that I give unto you that you love one another." Disagreeing but still being compassionate (caring about them) is how I would handle the situation. You are harming the person by encouraging their sinful behavior when you agree with pro gay rights people.

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/24/2009

I read an article recently, which I cannot find to cite, that said 85% of homosexual males claim to have been molested as a child by a male relative, family friend, or pastor. (If this is true, then homosexuality begets homosexuality to a great extent.) Also, in the recent scandal with Catholic priests occurred almost all the victims were boys. My concern is that, in our Christian charity, we may have been failing to protect our children.
I understand the point of view that we all have persistent sins, but not all sins hold the same grave value, or bring scandal to others especially little ones.

TNell - posted on 04/24/2009

Romans says to be changed by the renewing of our minds. Satan can plant thoughts and if we are not careful we will accept them and follow them. Our thoughts are a huge battleground. As Jesus did, we accept the people not the sin. We don't allow for them to think that it is acceptable, but that we still love them as a person and want what's best for them. As we pray we need to remember that that is one sin and we all have at least one sin in our lives, no matter what it is. Only Christ was perfect and He is the one who saves us. I have an uncle who is gay and a best friend. My heart aches for their positions to be changed, but it won't ever be if I judge them harshly. They know where I stand, if they ever want to talk, they know I am here. They ultimately have to make their own choices and I can only pray for them that someone will come to them that they will listen to. It is a hard issue to deal with, but necessary.

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/24/2009

The important thing is that they repent. To repent means to admit it is a sin and turn away from that sin. Practicing homosexuals have not admitted the sin and are therefore not prepared to repent. If they persist in their sin after being informed and warned, than they are not a friend of Christ.
Judas was an intimate friend of Jesus. He wasn't plotting against Him the whole time, he genuinely wanted to understand Christ, but in the end, he couldn't see past his own desires. Even then, if he had repented and asked Christ's forgiveness he would have been saved.
As far as being compassionate, a Christian adult should be able to maintain a relationship with a gay relative, but children should never be subjected to immorality before they are old enough to process it through the light of their faith.

Shelly - posted on 04/24/2009

Quoting Annette:

Quoting Teresa:

How do you know that no practicing homosexuals will be in heaven? Are you God now? You may have some good points Annette, but I feel your attitude is very condesending. Homosexuality IS definitely a sin, but so are a lot of things. In my opinion whether or not a person is or will be saved is between him/her and God and not for me to say. Yes, we are to spread the Word in love, but another person's salvation is God's call... not ours. Oh, and before you start 'worrying' about me too... I'm a 32 year old mother of 3. Born and raised in a Christian home. Very devoted to my faith and my God. Just not a very good debater. :)

I didn't say it! It's what is says in I Corinthians 6:9-10.

Annette,

  It's great that you quote the word but if you are going to quote something to defend your position you should continue to read b/c 1 Corinthians 6:11 says (NLT)  Some of you were once like that.  But you were cleansed: you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 

So if you want to quote the Word then make sure you know what you are quoting.  God will not turn anyone way if they have called on his name and repented for his sin.  And if your church believes different than that then I suggest that you find a new church. 

Shelly - posted on 04/24/2009

I hold the biblical perspective of loving the sinner but hating the sin. What we need to remeber is that Jesus sat down and fellowshipped with sinners. He enjoyed meals with these people. Back in biblical times having a meal with someone and fellowshipping with them wasn't what its like today. It was a big deal, and a big production. Having a meal with a person in biblical times represented respect, love, and almost like what we would consider a holiday now a days. It wasn't just taken lightly. So for Jesus to be sitting down with sinners to enjoy fellowship is a huge reflection of his beliefs of LOVING EVERY PERSON and ministering to them through that love and showing them his way rather than condeming them and rejecting them. I think we as Christians quickly forget how important EVERY person is to Jesus. We need to minister to them in love and befriend them and through that love and friendship showing them the true way through Jesus Christ. I can't tell you how many times I have heard from nonChristians that it is so nice to have a Christian person be friends with me and not preach at me but show me Gods love and truth through friendship and action. We cant be affraid of sinners, we need to love them as God loves them and in that show them the true way of salvation which is through Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins.

Dorothy - posted on 04/23/2009

It is a sin,and yes we all have some type of sin nature we have to battle. Some struggle with gossip, porn,over eating,lying, homosexual thought or tendencies, etc. To give into these things and not seek victory over these issues in life is a tragedy. You have to build you life with the word of God inscripted into your very being. Our lives are suppose to be a tower, a light to the lost world and if your structure has one weak spot that you have never had the courage or strenght to deal with, eventually your tower will come crumbling down. God always loves the sinner, his love has never been in question. The question you should ask is "Do I love God enough to turn away from my sin and obey his word and follow the plans He has for me." Instead of saying to God "okay God this is what I want to do with my life, will you approve it please." God loves the sinner, but hates the sin that seperates us from him.

Tracy - posted on 04/23/2009

My thoughts exactly. My thirteen year old daughter and I watched this together Sunday night. We discussed the issues. I struggled with it as you mention. Hard situation. I could never turn my back on my child but could not accept that lifestyle either. No easy answer.

Anne - posted on 04/23/2009

Heather thank you for your post. satan (I refuse to capitalize his name because he is the ultimate LOSER) wants nothing more than to get The Bride of Christ to bicker and fight amongst ourself. Because this group is open we never know when an unsaved mom may read our posts. If they read our posts that are full of what could be conceived as bickering or fighting it can turn them off to what God has to offer. We can disagree agreeably. Proverbs 15:1
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
This is something that the Holy Spirit has had to remind me of more times that I care to admit to.

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/23/2009

Brittany,
I am sorry whatever I said offended you, I certainly had no intention to. E-conversations do not allow for tone of voice, which makes all the difference. What I meant was simply that our entertainment industry has been allowed to push the moral envelope because it has willing viewers. If people would choose not to watch immoral content, Hollywood would be forced to seek the higher road. YOU may not be prone to homosexuality, but enough exposure to the message will soften us into accepting it as normal. I too have homosexual family members, a cousin and an uncle, and I have seen the extreme negative impact it has had on the moral structure of our family. I love them, but have had to distance myself from them so my children will not grow up thinking it is acceptable, just as I have had to distance myself from a nephew who has abandoned his wife and children to live in the "fast lane." If that adulteress had said "no" when Jesus told her to "go and sin no more" would she still have been forgiven?
According to the Old Testament, homosexuality is a grave evil and one of the four sins that cries out to heaven for justice. God's Justice is as perfect as His Mercy.

Heather - posted on 04/23/2009

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (NIV)

And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

I am posting this scripture for two reasons; One: we can refer to it to answer Brittney's original question. And Two: I believe that we are all the Lord's servants here, and I wanted to remind everyone that we are not to quarrel but to speak gently to one another.

We are all sisters in Christ and I reading each of your thoughts everyday.

Brittney - posted on 04/23/2009

OK ladies, everyone has helped this conversation is some way, with that said. We all obviously LOVE the the LORD with all of our hearts, and we all want to be good women of God. I think we all know what GOD's word says about homosexuality, I think some just have different approches in talking to someone in this lifestyle. I know where I stand on it, it's a sin just like any other, that if not repented will not allow you into the kindgom of God. Homosexuality is something the devil is very good at temping people into, just like many other sins. I like how one women put it, that alcoholics, drug addicts, child molesters, murders, and liars don't want to be those thing either. I realize with the statement, that you must fully rely on GOD to pull you though any temptation, such as homosexual desires. That really gave me a good prespective on that fact that, your tempted to do alot of sins, but that doesn't mean you fall into it, you must pray for deliverance from all sins. Thank you everyone for all your input. God Bless, Brittney

Brittney - posted on 04/23/2009

Quoting Elizabeth:

Hating sin is not being judgmental! The bible tells us not only to hate sin, but FLEE from sin. It seems to me watching it on TV or putting yourself in the midst of it is hardly fleeing from it. We are all born with a fallen nature, and are therefore prone to sin right out of the womb. But we teach our children to the best of our ability to reign in that disobedient spirit, and when they fail, to seek forgiveness from Our Lord.
We have all heard it "hate the sin, love the sinner", and I love to ponder the adulteress He saved from the angry mob. He did not say "you poor thing, I know you can't control yourself, but I love you anyway." He said "GO AND SIN NO MORE." Loving, but firm. Don't wallow in your sin just because it seem too strong to fight. He conquered death and has called us all to do the same with His Grace.

 

OK your comment that "watching it on TV or putting yourself in the midst of it is hardly fleeing from it.". What do I have to flee from, I think that was a rude statement.  I am not sinning by watching this on tv, or by being around my gay family member. I am not the one that has to flee from this sin b/c it's not a lifestyle that I am a part of . I have stated that I know its a sin, and yes if you do not repent of your sins any sins you will not be united with our heavenly father. There are just different approches that people take in preeching Gods word.

Di - posted on 04/22/2009

Quoting Carolee:

 

Preaching Hell is preaching Fear and that is not who God is . 

I do not mean to offend you Carolee, but I beg to differ. There are many biblical references (both old test. and new) that refer to fearing the Lord. Just one that easily came to hand was Rev 14:7 'Fear God and give him glory because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water'. There are many others. For all those that are into this sort of thing my quote comes from the NIV Study bible.

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/22/2009

Hating sin is not being judgmental! The bible tells us not only to hate sin, but FLEE from sin. It seems to me watching it on TV or putting yourself in the midst of it is hardly fleeing from it. We are all born with a fallen nature, and are therefore prone to sin right out of the womb. But we teach our children to the best of our ability to reign in that disobedient spirit, and when they fail, to seek forgiveness from Our Lord.
We have all heard it "hate the sin, love the sinner", and I love to ponder the adulteress He saved from the angry mob. He did not say "you poor thing, I know you can't control yourself, but I love you anyway." He said "GO AND SIN NO MORE." Loving, but firm. Don't wallow in your sin just because it seem too strong to fight. He conquered death and has called us all to do the same with His Grace.

Karin - posted on 04/22/2009

Homosexuality is a spirit. There are many spirits in the world that we live in. Not spirits of God, but of satan. The Bible tells us that homosexuality is an abomination, therefore we know that it is wrong, and is not of God. It is a spirit from the depths of hell, and as time passes, the spirit has become more stronger than ever. Just look at all the gay rights activists, and the states legalizing same sex marriage. You say this movie portrays the man as "not wanting to be gay". Well, how many people "want" to be alcoholics, drug addicts, child molesters, murderers, liars, etc. I don't believe anyone wants to do such things, but when you are bound by the spirits, you have to be set free. My belief of these, though, is that when you are truly born-again, God will deliver you, and help you with such temptations. Not saying the temptation to sin won't be there, but God is our strength, and if we trust Him fully, and pray when the desire to sin comes, He will faithfully bring us through it. I do believe that God loves EVERYBODY! Even those who are homosexuals. He sent His Son Jesus to die for everyone. BUT God hates any sin!! And there is a consequence to every action. If you sin, and don't repent, the consequence is Hell.

Carolee - posted on 04/22/2009

Quoting Brooke:

Quoting Carolee:

Hello Brittney ! my name is carolee. I know you are not the only spiritual person who has questions about homosexuality. God is interested in success and Happiness and Knows that the life style of homosexuals will not bring a them True Happiness. The word Sin simply means falling short of our potential of {being the most amazing people we can possibly be } The issue with homosexuals isn't whether or not they will go to heaven{that is between them and God} the issue is how can we inspire people {with amazing potential } to want the best ways for their lives . The ways of wisdom. which lead to True Happiness.

Carolee, you said that it is between the homosexual and God if they go to heaven.....God has already given us the answer to unrepentant sinners NOT going to heaven. The following scripture answers that question :

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11......."Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God ? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord and by the Spirit of our God."

Isn't it awesome that Gods mercies are new every day . Even for us non homosexuals !           I love being in the New covenant ! I love that i have the kingdom of God in me every day !       I am not saved by works but by Grace ! Sets me FREE again just hearing it :} Wisdom helps our lives on earth ! The purpose of it is to help us be free not to put us in bondage with God!  I love to talk to people about their potential Not because I am supposed to but because its Fun! Preaching Hell is preaching Fear and that is not who God is . He is Freedom ! People love to be inspired not condemned {Guitlism and Fear } are not reasons to be Great ! Jesus went to the cross for the joy that was set before him ! We are that JOY . 

Annette - posted on 04/22/2009

I'm talking about people unreprentant of the sin of homosexuality, and living actively in that lifestyle. Not matter if they are in or out of the church.

I do believe that sins can be passed down from one generation to the next; but all the stories I've heard or known about, there has always, without exception, been some of kind of sexual abuse done to that person. Those prevarted sexual demons had a open way into their lives, because of what happened to them. I know that's what happened to my husband's nephew. So older man in the neighborhood got a hold of him. He also didn't have his Dad in his life. He's with a woman now, he is not a Christian, and you can still tell thoes demons have a hold in his life.

Tammy - posted on 04/22/2009

I to beleive it leads to a life a despair! i im not going tp judge them but chilren need to see the world good and bad because one day they to will be faced with temptations!and they will have to understand and know what good descisions to make.sheilding everyone only works for so long i im not saying this is ok behavior but if our children see and understand were it leads they can make a healthy descision .beleive me they will encounter many good and evil things in this life time but it is also about knowledge and being informed so you know how to deal with it if the situation comes up in there life..I choose to be around people who are positive and people who make good descisions in life ..all of you have had great views to open peoples eyes god bless

Rebekah - posted on 04/22/2009

Those that fight homosexual thoughts or believe they are gay from birth, usually can pinpointed to the mother's pregnancy, either (1) the mother really wanted a girl, but was having a boy or vice versa and those emotions were relayed to the child they were not wanted, (2) the mother dealt with homosexual thoughts thus relaying to the child, or (3) a generational sin on either side of the families being passed down because it was not dealt with.

Prayer to find out the root is what needs to be done to stop the passing from generation to generation and free the child. I don't believe kids are made this way, but I do believe sins of the mother are passed on, just as sins of the generations are passed on if not dealt with.

Brooke - posted on 04/22/2009

Quoting Teresa:

Apparently no one that steals anything, gets drunk, or has greed will be there either then. Man, heaven is going to be EMPTY. Guess it's a good thing Christ's blood covered ALL sin.

Teresa, notice it says in 1 Corinthians 6:11...."and such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

Annette is referring to those who are unrepentant of their sins....just as the Word of God is referring to. Yes, all of us were at some point involved in these sins but chose to ask Jesus for forgiveness and TURN AWAY from our sin. Also in Galatians 5:19-21 the Word of God addresses this issue again and in verse 21 it states....", just as I told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."       practice here in it's Greek verb describes continual, habitual action.

Brooke - posted on 04/22/2009

Quoting Carolee:

Hello Brittney ! my name is carolee. I know you are not the only spiritual person who has questions about homosexuality. God is interested in success and Happiness and Knows that the life style of homosexuals will not bring a them True Happiness. The word Sin simply means falling short of our potential of {being the most amazing people we can possibly be } The issue with homosexuals isn't whether or not they will go to heaven{that is between them and God} the issue is how can we inspire people {with amazing potential } to want the best ways for their lives . The ways of wisdom. which lead to True Happiness.

Carolee, you said that it is between the homosexual and God if they go to heaven.....God has already given us the answer to unrepentant sinners NOT going to heaven. The following scripture answers that question :

1 Corinthians 6:9-11......."Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God ? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord and by the Spirit of our God."

Anne - posted on 04/22/2009

Brooke you "hit the nail on the head" so to speak. AND you did it in LOVE! I will be praying for your sister. I have 3 guy friends that have died due to homosexuality and one that is still living in this sinful lifestyle. 2 of the young men came back to the Lord on their death bed. I am not sure about the 3rd. All 4 of these young men were either raised in Christian homes or had been active in our church youth group as a teen.

Brooke - posted on 04/22/2009

I believe people are born with that tendency just as EVERYONE is born with a tendency to sin. Do you understand what I mean? We are ALL born with a desire to sin that leads to death. That's exactly why Jesus came to earth and died on the cross for our sins. Just because we all are born with a bent toward sin that does not erase the fact that EVERYONE is accountable for their OWN sins. I believe any sinner can help themselves with sin IF they accept Christ as their Saviour. To excuse homosexuals of their accountability is no different than me cheating on my husband and then telling the world , "well, I was born with a tendency to commit adultery". That doesn't erase the fact that I sinned, hurt my husband and so many others.



Please understand my heart grieves for anyone caught up in sin. My own dear sister is a homosexual....I love her with my whole heart but I DO NOT love her sin, nor will I condone it. We see her fairly often and allow her to be a part of our kids lives but she is NOT allowed to discuss her lifestyle or bring her "friend" around our children. She knows this and respects our decision. My husband and my parents have talked with her SEVERAL times about her lifestlye choices. She has even told our dad that she knows she can't be saved and be a homosexual but that it is worth "taking a chance on hell" just to live in sin. HEARTBREAKING ! We all just daily pray for her eyes to be opened and we love her through this !



Sorry this is so long.....

Annette - posted on 04/22/2009

Quoting Liz:

This is the scripture in question-it lays out exactly God's thoughts on the matter. It also says we ARE to judge the world.


1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against his neighbor, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Or know ye not that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world is judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more, things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have to judge things pertaining to this life, do ye set them to judge who are of no account in the church?
1Co 6:5 I say this to move you to shame. What, cannot there be found among you one wise man who shall be able to decide between his brethren,
1Co 6:6 but brother goeth to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?
1Co 6:7 Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?
1Co 6:8 Nay, but ye yourselves do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

And he was saying this to the church at Corinth. Paul called them Brenthren.

Liz - posted on 04/22/2009

This is the scripture in question-it lays out exactly God's thoughts on the matter. It also says we ARE to judge the world.





1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against his neighbor, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?

1Co 6:2 Or know ye not that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world is judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more, things that pertain to this life?

1Co 6:4 If then ye have to judge things pertaining to this life, do ye set them to judge who are of no account in the church?

1Co 6:5 I say this to move you to shame. What, cannot there be found among you one wise man who shall be able to decide between his brethren,

1Co 6:6 but brother goeth to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?

1Co 6:7 Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?

1Co 6:8 Nay, but ye yourselves do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

Carolee - posted on 04/21/2009

Hello Brittney ! my name is carolee. I know you are not the only spiritual person who has questions about homosexuality. God is interested in success and Happiness and Knows that the life style of homosexuals will not bring a them True Happiness. The word Sin simply means falling short of our potential of {being the most amazing people we can possibly be } The issue with homosexuals isn't whether or not they will go to heaven{that is between them and God} the issue is how can we inspire people {with amazing potential } to want the best ways for their lives . The ways of wisdom. which lead to True Happiness.

Brittney - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Annette:

I just was worried that you might believe you could be a practicing homosexual and be saved. I'm sorry if you think I've come on strong. I guess I just upset with some parts of the church world thinking it's ok. The Bible clearly says it's not.
My heart is to help and do for other people. I'm sorry to have hurt you in anyway.

 

No hurt taken, don't worry about it. I don't think you can be practicing homosexual and saved, but if you had been one for years and then on your death bed asking for forgiveness, I think you can be saved.  Like I said I know you mean well, thanks for all the imput.

Brittney - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Teresa:

How do you know that no practicing homosexuals will be in heaven? Are you God now? You may have some good points Annette, but I feel your attitude is very condesending. Homosexuality IS definitely a sin, but so are a lot of things. In my opinion whether or not a person is or will be saved is between him/her and God and not for me to say. Yes, we are to spread the Word in love, but another person's salvation is God's call... not ours. Oh, and before you start 'worrying' about me too... I'm a 32 year old mother of 3. Born and raised in a Christian home. Very devoted to my faith and my God. Just not a very good debater. :)

 

See this is what I think as well. God will be the judge of all sins including homosexuality on judgement day. I am not going to tell someone they are going to hell b/c they are gay, as I am not the creator, I will leave that judgement up to God. I think that as a Christian you should not approve of it obviously just like any other sin, but to tell someone they are going to hell for their sin, when you sin as well, isn't your call at all. I think the best way to help someone over come any sin is compassion, b/c I think they could more easily see Christ through you, then if we just say " God will send you to hell if your gay".

And as somone said earlier that they don't allow their gay family member in there home b/c if someone from their church seen them welcoming someone gay into their home, they'd be a hypocrite. That's not a hypocrite, your not saying you approve, your only showing love which God would do. I think if anyones church member called someone a hypocrite for allowing a gay family member in their house, they would be passing judgement w/o knowing your intentions, maybe you were talking about God with them.

 

Teresa I do think Annette has good intentions, but can come off a little strong.

Annette - posted on 04/21/2009

I just was worried that you might believe you could be a practicing homosexual and be saved. I'm sorry if you think I've come on strong. I guess I just upset with some parts of the church world thinking it's ok. The Bible clearly says it's not.

My heart is to help and do for other people. I'm sorry to have hurt you in anyway.

Brittney - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Annette:

That's good to know, Brittney. I was starting to get worried about you.

 

Getting worried about me? Why? I am not lost, i have salvation through Jesus. I just have questions from now and then, and I think God expects that, but I never push it to far b/c I also know there are things that only God can answer and that man will never know until we are united in Heaven with our Father. I know you mean well, and it sounds like you know God's word very well, but you come off very strong, and people can take you the wrong way very easily. And to say you are "worried about me" makes me a little defensive, b/c I know where I stand with Jesus and thats all that matters.

I really do appreciate all the scripture you gave me to look up, as I have been reading through it.

Teresa - posted on 04/21/2009

The church in Corinth actually. That's why they are called Corinthians. I'm sorry. No point in arguing w/ you. Your attitude is crystal clear.

Annette - posted on 04/21/2009

I'm sorry you don't get it. Paul was also talking to the church in Corinthians.

Teresa - posted on 04/21/2009

Apparently no one that steals anything, gets drunk, or has greed will be there either then. Man, heaven is going to be EMPTY. Guess it's a good thing Christ's blood covered ALL sin.

Annette - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Teresa:

How do you know that no practicing homosexuals will be in heaven? Are you God now? You may have some good points Annette, but I feel your attitude is very condesending. Homosexuality IS definitely a sin, but so are a lot of things. In my opinion whether or not a person is or will be saved is between him/her and God and not for me to say. Yes, we are to spread the Word in love, but another person's salvation is God's call... not ours. Oh, and before you start 'worrying' about me too... I'm a 32 year old mother of 3. Born and raised in a Christian home. Very devoted to my faith and my God. Just not a very good debater. :)

I didn't say it! It's what is says in I Corinthians 6:9-10.

Teresa - posted on 04/21/2009

How do you know that no practicing homosexuals will be in heaven? Are you God now? You may have some good points Annette, but I feel your attitude is very condesending. Homosexuality IS definitely a sin, but so are a lot of things. In my opinion whether or not a person is or will be saved is between him/her and God and not for me to say. Yes, we are to spread the Word in love, but another person's salvation is God's call... not ours. Oh, and before you start 'worrying' about me too... I'm a 32 year old mother of 3. Born and raised in a Christian home. Very devoted to my faith and my God. Just not a very good debater. :)

Annette - posted on 04/21/2009

That's good to know, Brittney. I was starting to get worried about you.

Brittney - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Annette:

Romans 1:24-32 talks about homosexuality as well as other sins. I'm sorry to tell you that homosexuals will not be in heaven. There is no such thing as a "saved praticing homosexual;" the Word says in I Corthinthians 6:9-10 that homosexuals, as well as a list of other people with other sins, will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
I'm don't how old you are Brittany or how long you've been a Christian or what kind of church you go to; but I'm 44 years old and I have 4 children and I've been a Christian for 36 years of my life. I also go to Full-Bible Believing Church.

 

Well what I meant was, if they lived a gay lifestyle and then on their death bed asked to be forgiven, I believe God will forgive them and allow them in the kingdom of God.

By the way I am  25  with 2 children and have been a christian my whole life. I attend an non-denominational church, and obviously a church thats full bible believiing as well.

Heather - posted on 04/21/2009

This question has gotten a lot of responses. I would like to add some more to it though. Homosexuality is an unlawful sexual relation according to God's Word. Leviticus 18 mentions it right along side of sleeping with a close relative or an animal. That being said, I do not believe that there is a hierarchy of sin. Sin is sin. Sin for the most part is between the person sinning and God. (Psalm 51:4) If they sin against you then it is different (Matthew 18:15), Matthew 7:3 talks about not judging others (not saying that we are) but it says that looking at the speck in someone else's eye is wrong. I believe that we do need to reach out to the lost, after all that is the great commission (Matthew 28:19), but I don't think we need to condemn them by telling them that their life style is unacceptable. I would approach them in the same way I would approach anyone else. Tell them about Jesus and share the Gospel with them. When they choose to accept God, help them grow as Christians and let them read for themselves that their lifestyle is wrong. We can't make them change, they have to desire it. If they are true Christians then they will see that it is wrong. We can pray for them to see their sin and repent. And without Jesus it doesn't really matter if they are a homosexual, they are still going to hell. Gay or not.

Let's not get caught up on what they are doing wrong, there is no one righteous, not even one. (Romans 3:10) We need to reach out to all of the lost souls in the world. We are called to love one another, and love keeps no record of wrongs.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

These are just my thoughts. I am very firm in my faith, but I believe that I will be learning to better serve God for the rest of my life. I will continue to seek Jesus, and I know that I don't have everything figured out yet, so please don't take offense to what I have said.

Jennifer - posted on 04/21/2009

Annette,

I agree and I just felt that everyone was taking what I said as me judging the person themselves and that just wasn't the case. I do hate the sin but I do love the sinners just as with our church motto: Reach the lost and Encourage the Believer!

I know we can keep going around and around about this whole thing. I know we can all agree that we should hate the sin not the sinner! Yes I choose to cast out the family member as it was said from my home only because if I am at church saying one thing and then come home and allow it, am I not being a hypocrite.(i am not saying that someone who does allow this in their home is one either, so please do not take it that way) Does this mean that I do not speak to this family member or do I ignore them??? NO! I do not at all, when we got to family get together I do talk to her, I do acknowledge her and so forth. But just because I do not allow her in my home does not mean I am judging her! I want each and everyone person that I know and that I don't know, to be in Heaven together and if it means I am preaching to them...so be it, that is what I thought we were suppose to do! No, I don't keep at it and I don't become a preacher to them or shake the bible at them but I do tell them what he can do for them and remind them that the lifestyle is a sin!

I agree with Di, what if we replaced the words, then what? But one thing I can say is I don't condone gays, I don't not accept it in my home, I feel once you are saved you must repent of your sins and not continue to live in sin. However, like I have said I do sin everyday because we are human, but that type of sin, (in my opinion) is not an intentional sin. I ask Him to forgive me everyday and do my best not to sin, but we are not without sin! I know our God is a forgiven God because he loves us so much! But in this case, if you are gay and you are committing a sin knowingly and then acting upon that sin, then you have no longer repented of your sins and you still walk and live in sin.

But again thank you Annetta and Di!

Annette - posted on 04/21/2009

Romans 1:24-32 talks about homosexuality as well as other sins. I'm sorry to tell you that homosexuals will not be in heaven. There is no such thing as a "saved praticing homosexual;" the Word says in I Corthinthians 6:9-10 that homosexuals, as well as a list of other people with other sins, will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

I'm don't how old you are Brittany or how long you've been a Christian or what kind of church you go to; but I'm 44 years old and I have 4 children and I've been a Christian for 36 years of my life. I also go to Full-Bible Believing Church.

Brittney - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Annette:

Quoting Shelly:

Quoting Tara:

I do not support the lifestyle of a person who is gay, but I am also not going to condemn any homosexual person because that is not for me to do. I am a firm believer in hating the sin but loving the sinner; however, that has been a difficult concept for me to figure out how that looks at times. Prayer is a powerful tool, but I feel that too many times people pray for God to change others instead of looking inward and asking God for the guidance and wisdom to change and work within him/her self to find how to handle situations. God loves each and every one of us that He created even with our sins as no person, except Jesus, who has ever walked on this earth is without sin. I will continue to show the love of Christ to every person that enters my life whether he/she is heterosexual or not, and I will continue to pray that God will grant me the knowledge, wisdom, and understanding to do that.
"But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." John 8:7 (NIV)

Tara,

  Thank you thank you thank you....I could not of said it any better.  We as humans think that we are here to judge everyone else but our selves...I am not going to judge anyone with a different lifestyle than myself or my beliefs.  I feel we need to pray for these women that are so close minded.  Jesus walked with the worst of the worst and for us to turn our backs on ANYONE is a sin.  One of the most important commandment Jesus gave to us is we are to Love our nieghbors as ourselves.  There is no cleff note that says unless they are a sinner.   

We are to judge ourselves so we will not be judged. The Word clearly says that homosexuality is an abomination in the site of God. It even says that if someone APPROVES of such a sin such by put to the death, as well as the ones who pratice it. (Romans 1:32) Look it up for youselves, and then decide. I've said nothing before about judging those in this sin, everyone else had brought that word up. I'm just saying what the Word says and that's it. I believe all full well that Jesus CAN and DOES delieve thoes in this sin.

As for loving the sinner, I think everyone gets that. All I'm doing is saying what the Word says. If anyone has issue with that, take that up with God. I am a VERY CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN.

BE THE CHURH; DON'T JUST GO TO CHURH ~ that's what we're learning at my church. Homosexuality is demonic and I don't want that spirit around my family.

 

I do not see where it says that those that approve of  homosexuality are put to death???

Brittney - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Di:

Jennifer what you have said is totally right. If your relation was a drug addict you wouldn't cop flack from banning that behaviour from your children but b/c society has been brainwashed into believing there is nothing wrong with homosexuality you cop the hypocrite label. Boy would I like a dollar for everyone who labels me that b/c I don't live up to their ideals of what a christian is and what a christian does.

Society has been brainwashed. It is through movies and tv programs that portray gaydom as 'normal'. Look at the start here, b/c it portrayed this person as a poor thing, sympathy is aroused for how hard it is etc etc blah blah blah. Tragic ending all b/c of a bad mother who is christian. Double whammy, get a dig in at the christians whilst we are at it....

To answer what would God want us to do, the same as what Jesus did with the woman caught in adultery. Not condemn the person, but firmly state that that person should not keep sinning.

Here's an interesting take on this, replace the word homosexual with paedophile. This is the latest argument with the paedophiles, I was born that way so therefore I cant help it. What I want to know is this - are the ppl that come out and say that God created homosexuals, so therefore it is ok gonna be saying the same thing about paedophiles? I don't think so, but as usual if you point that out to them, they will twist it around. They are blind and do not want to see and if you point out they are blind they poke you in the eye and say you're the one who is blind.

Robbie Williams summed it up beautifully.....hate the sin not the sinner.

 

I do agree that society is trying to make Gay "normal', which isn't ok. But that doesn't mean you can't have sympathy for someone who is Gay.

Brittney - posted on 04/21/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I am not saying that I am perfect and I am without sin. I have to ask God to forgive every single night as I am sure everyone else does. I do not judge and will never judge anyone for what they have done or do. Every one struggles with something in their lives. I for one do have someone that is related to me that is gay. She finally came out 3 years ago. She knows that she is not welcomed in my home because I do not want that (and by "that" I mean the homosexuality) around my children. I do have that right! She does know that when she gets around me I will tell her about God and what he can do for her and that she needs to stop living in sin. Do not get me wrong because I do love her and like Tara said I love the sinner and not the sin. However, you take someone that is not a Christian that knows she is gay, then know I am a Christian and see us together I get labeled as a hypocrite(sp, sorry). As I am sure everyone has been through this. We judge before thinking and do it before we even know we have.

Like Annette said I am sure they did not tell the whole truth. No doubt it was purely from the "moms" side of it. But again it is a movie and in movies they love to twist things and really stretch the truth, especially when it comes to Christianity. I feel the only way to get closer to God is to ask questions but ask them in a way that you are not doubting Him. I think if you were saved, then was gay, and you hadn't ask for forgiveness then no you are no longer saved. You are not leading a good Christian life. Once you get saved, you have to repent of your sins, meaning doing the whole 180 and no longer living a sinful life. You work hard at leading a a good Christian life or one to the best of your ability. God understands that there will always be temptations in our every day lives, but at the end of the day I ask him to forgive me and to help me make better choices for the next day.

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes or anything like that and if I have please forgive me. This is another one of those touchy subjects. Maybe, I should have worded my first post a little better and forgive me for coming across a little bold.

 

No offense was taken. But I on the other hand welcome my gay family member in my house. He knows I do not approve of his lifestyle, but I am still going to love him and never cast him out. To me I lean to the side that God would want us to show his love through ourselves in these situations. I myself can not change his mind about being gay, only God can change his heart, so why keep preaching to him. I am not accepting his sin, but I am loving the sinner, as God does with us.

I also tend to believe that once you are saved, your always saved. Sure you are to repent, b/c everyone sins on a daily basis. I think that if a homosexual that is saved, dies, but befoe he dies repents. I think they will go to heaven.

Annette - posted on 04/21/2009

Thank you, Jennifer! I'm not trying to "start anything", I'm just tried of women saying we are "judging" them. I'm just judging the sin. We ARE to judge the sin.

Our church's motto is "FAITH, HOPE, AND LOVE" and "BE THE CHURH; DON'T JUST GO TO CHURCH."

Jennifer - posted on 04/21/2009

Di and Annette,

Thank you ladies for your words!