Why are Non-Christians more helpful than Christians?

West - posted on 09/10/2012

@ Angela there were a lot of verses some of them were Hebrews 11 verse 37 like Carla mentioned, we read Pslams 101 verses2-7 but we concentrated on on verses 4-6 because it speaks on being a servant. We also read 2nd Timothy verses 16-18 as well as verse 10 where Demas forsaked Timothy for the world. Then when my husband got home from work last night we had this discussion and he pointed out Matthew 25 verses 14-30 where Jesus speaks the parable of the talents. It reminded me that not all servants are doing what they suppose to be doing and some will be cast into outer darkness with the unbelievers. This really encouraged me to do the most I can for God, not to hide what he gave me but to spread it and let it multiply. Seek and ye shall find. I asked my question at the beginning of the week and received full understanding by the end of it. And if someone asks for help and I have it to spare I will, regardless if I have fear of getting burned. Also Matthew 25 verses 34-46 are great examples of how we are suppose to treat others. On a last note John 15:12-13 where it says the comandment is to love one another as Christ loves you. Have a good day y'all.

Carla - posted on 09/10/2012

And you are right, Shelley-Ann, we AREN'T perfect---HOWEVER, we ARE supposed to be BETTER today than we were yesterday. There IS no stopping to smell the roses on this road we trod. We are either moving forward, or slipping backward. The question, therefore is: ARE we Christians? Look at West's first two sentences--'I am a Christian. I am always quick to help anyone who asks if I'm able to.' THIS is what we are called to do! The Golden Rule isn't do unto others as they do unto you, it is Do unto others as you would have done unto you! When West asked a Christian for help and didn't get it, God moved into her situation and provided. Now sometimes He will bring someone else to help, but sometimes He won't, just to see how we are going to respond to this. We are constantly being challenged, tested, purified. WILL we stop helping people because someone made us feel bad?



When John the Baptist was martyred, Jesus took the disciples into the desert to rest and recoup. However, the crowds saw Him leave, and went after Him. Did He turn them away, telling them He was in mourning? No. He taught and ministered. I liken our life on Earth as boot camp--to learn how to be a good soldier. The Enemy will beat us up, make us feel like we're all alone, ANYTHING to stop us from being a witness for Jesus. A good soldier goes on, even if he's muddy, bloody, and tired. He feels his battle is just, and he will give his life for it. THIS is what we are called to do, and our reward is in Heaven. Our wages aren't great, and sometimes the benefits are lousy, but we look forward to being with Jesus. As the Holy Spirit said in Revelation 'this is the patience of the saints, he who overcomes will have a crown of life.'



If you are ever feeling down, read Hebrews 11, the Faith chapter. Paul (and although the writer of this book is listed as unknown, it sounds like Paul to me). He goes through a list of OT people who proved their faith by their trials. Verse 37 says: 'They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented, (of whom the world was not worthy)'!



God sees ALL! He sees those who pattern their life after Jesus, and He ALSO sees those who TALK like a Christian, but aren't. Like my favorite saying goes--Just because I am sitting in a garage doesn't make me a car--sitting in church LOOKING like a Christian doesn't mean I AM a Christian!



So, we have learned a valuable lesson. That person who didn't show West the love of Jesus probably doesn't HAVE the love of Jesus. 'You will know them by their fruits'. God sure knew what He was talking about, huh?



God bless, all!

Shelley-Ann - posted on 09/09/2012

@ Angela, where I'm from, taxis are independently owned and operated. The gentleman in questions was a taxi driver.



And your post about the never ending cycle... I have a brother-in-law like that. First he comes by and gives me some money (let's say $20) for the kids, his neices. Then over the course of a week, he'll pass by about 3 times to borrow a minimum of $10 each time. The first few times he caught me until I realized what was going on. So, what I started doing was that every time he gave me money, I'd put it in a draw and when he came to borrow I'd just take whatever he asked for from the money he gave. When it was finished, I'd tell him I didn't have any to spare. It was helarious when the realization hit me.



When I have moments like these, I look back at the experience and think "what did I learn today?"



@ West, I guess when it comes to human beings behaving like human beings, nothing really changes. Could you post a few of the scriptures if you have them? I'd really like to learn about that a little more.



Right now I'm doing a documentary for an NGO in my country and during one of the interviews with staff members I asked about the organization learning and growing and getting better with time. One of the senior staff members said.. "We are not perfect. We've never been perfect and will never be perfect. But that's not what we're about. Being perfect is not what we're about. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don't. What do we do when they don't work? We try something else. If we were perfect, we would lose touch with human imperfection." That left a profound impact on me.



Your question and the ensuing discussion has really been enlightening. As Christians, we do what we do because we believe it's what we're supposed to do. Our reward isn't on this earth.

West - posted on 09/09/2012

Well I went to service today and part of the message was no matter how church people forsake you, endure to the end using faith. Several scriptures were pointed out where God's people were not helped or forsaked by fellow belivers. Obviously it's been a problem for a very long time and this is an area where people lack.

Angela - posted on 09/09/2012

Carla, what a great post! You understood where I was coming from completely!



My issue with lending people money is that I also lived in an area that you'd call a "Hood" (neighbourhood with a lot of rough, lawless people, high crime, unemployment and social deprivation). I know what it's like to be very poor. Because I generally try and believe the best of people, I got taken advantage of a few times. I'm aware that when people borrow money and it's down to poor stewardship of the money they already had of their own, they will likely "waste" (or use unwisely) the money they borrow, be left short when they pay back and shortly afterwards come round wanting to borrow again - it becomes a never-ending cycle!



Here is a good solution that may work well if you can afford it .....



Say to the borrower "OK, you need $5 (or £5 if you're British!) - I don't want to lend you this money as you'll probably be short when you pay me back and then want to borrow again .... So what I'm going to do is GIVE you the $5 (or £5) - you don't need to pay me back! BUT you must NEVER approach me for a loan (or a cash gift) again? Is that understood? NEVER!!"



And make a private note of the day, the time and the location .... telling them you've done this. If they come back wanting more, remind them that on 15th January 2011, at 2pm in your own front parlour you GAVE them $5 on the understanding they'd never ask again. Hopefully, they'll get the message!



Carla I also like your comment about researching the overheads percentage that charities take from donations - what a great idea!!



I'm not mean-spirited or ungenerous but we really DO have to learn how to be as wise as serpents like the good book tells us.



And all the above advice is just common sense, isn't it? Needs to be taken on board whether or not we're Christians!

Carla - posted on 09/08/2012

I know, West, and I note you said 'professing Christian' this time, so you are learning. I'm so happy God came to the rescue. The help you give others is what I call our 'Brownie points'. You helped them as unto the Lord--what they do is also unto the Lord, and I have a feeling He is keeping very, very accurate score.



Do not be bitter, sweetheart. We have our own salvation to worry about, and who knows? You may do something for them sometime down the road, and the Lord will bring to their minds that they didn't help you, yet you continued to be the Christian and help them. This is what is referred to as 'heaping coals of fire on their heads'. Conviction WILL come, and maybe they will actually become Christians!



God bless, honey

West - posted on 09/08/2012

Carla I get you. I don't ask for help often and God had helped me where I didnt have to ask for a large sum of money. I've been burned by people as well but like Carla said if you can't help with one thing you can offer something else. I'm not at all saying be a door may or take from your own family but a ride to an OB is not like I'm squandering funds. I usually take public transport but my doctor said no due to placental abruption. God is always there though cause a taxi took me for free that day. It made me mad cause the people I ask are people I've helped out in the past. And that day I asked for a ride she went shopping instead and My OB is on the way to the mall. I'm just saying I noticed "worldly" people will help before a professing Christian would.

Carla - posted on 09/08/2012

I understand what you are all saying, we have ALL been burned, and because of age, Angela has seen more than Shelley-Ann or West, and I have seen more than Angela.



My family is notorious for this. As I have told you in the past, we also live in 'the hood' so we are hit up by people continually. We stop at a stop light and there's a person with a sign telling me they are homeless and need money. I see some under the overpass of the freeway in their sleeping bags. I have been poor, REAL poor. So my compassion to these people is probably different than others. I do, however, ask the Spirit before picking someone up to give them a ride. Once He actually told me to turn around and go get a person I had passed. I've never been mugged. There's a guy that stands on the corner and plays guitar and preaches to anyone who will roll down there window and listen, and he's there, summer and winter. We give him money whenever we have cash on us. I have given him a ride when he was hitchhiking--he was going to the music store to get more guitar strings. I give when the Spirit prods for the others. We had a woman (probably my age) who had the care of her little grandson who lived across the street. She would come over and ask for $5 to get the baby formula or diapers. The Spirit nudged me and told me she was using drugs. I went to the store, bought diapers and formula. The next time she came over, I took her out on the porch and just told her 'honey, I know what you do, and I cannot, in all good conscience, give you money to support your habit. I WILL give you diapers, or formula, if you are hungry, I will feed you'. She never came over again. I won't give my family money. They know if they're hungry, they can always come over and I'll feed them. I research very carefully the charities I give to, and if their operating expenses are over 18%, they don't get my money.



We are told to be wise stewards with the money we have. We are frugal to the point of almost being ridiculous. But I feel that God has warned us to get our household expenses in order so we WILL have money to give to others. Will I be taken again? Probably. But, I give as unto the Lord, and if they DO misuse the money, they will answer to God, not to me. Paul was asked about suing a fellow Christian--he said 'why don't you allow being used rather than to take a fellow Christian to court'? (my translation) Jesus said give without thought of being repaid. He said when you make a great big dinner, go out and invite people that can never pay you back such a great dinner.



We are called to be different from the world. Next time someone asks us for a ride, I hope we remember West.



God bless all

Angela - posted on 09/08/2012

I'm sure West is quite genuine Shelley-Ann!



I did feel for your predicament when you described how that guy said to you that time "I'm sorry, I really can't help you if you don't have the full fare. ..." You needed to get HOME. He was in a motor vehicle - you weren't asking him for money!! Or was he a taxi driver himself? Had he been advised by his employer not to give rides to people who were unable to pay?



I hate liars and users though, I really do! My friend runs a laundromat where I used to take my washing, years ago. A guy came in from the street saying he desperately needed 10p to make an urgent phone call as his brother needed to go to hospital. I said "Just call 999, ask for an ambulance if he needs to go to hospital, calling 999 is free!" And he said he didn't like bothering the emergency services since his brother 'only' had a broken leg .... I said that a broken leg was quite a serious reason to be needing hospital help and couldn't understand why he insisted he needed to make a paid call for 10p which is only a small amount of money! If my brother was lying in the street somewhere with a broken leg, I wouldn't be running around asking to beg 10p to make a paid call - I'd head straight to a public payphone and get a free call to 999!!



My friend then said "Here, you can use my phone for free!" indicating the phone in the laundromat ......



He didn't want to know! He wanted 10p for a phone call, but not for his injured brother to go to hospital. We reckon he wanted to phone his drug dealer! Or maybe he was waiting for me to open my purse or my friend to open her till - and do a snatch!



If anyone's going to con people and scam people, they need more polish than that, LOL!!

Shelley-Ann - posted on 09/08/2012

Wow Angela. I'm sure those are just two of the many situations you've expeirenced. I understand fully what you mean about using discernment. Not everyone who asks for our help is our responsibility. I think we can all swap stories about that! There was one time my husband's nephew sent a message that he was hungry and there wasn't any food in the house. Mind you, he and his girlfriend are both deaf and receive a decent subvention from the government and this was barely mid month. We didn't have much, no money to spare certainly, so I went through our cupboard to see what we had that we could offer and I sent things like rice and peas and other things they could cook, stuff to last them a few days. They sent back a message saying that I should have cooked the food before sending it. At the time it was aggravating, but now I find it funny. I guess that's what happens when we do things without thinking carefully. I sent what I had, but certainly not what they wanted.



My mother ends up in those kinds of situations all the time... helping people who don't appreciate and also squander the help. Sometimes, it's the same people over and over. I tried explaining to her that there are times she needs to step back and let people handle their own situations so that they can learn to do better. But it keeps happening. I suppose one day she'll learn her own lessons regarding that.



The fact is that some people are in particular situations to learn lessons, and when we intervene we are really not helping them at all. But I don't think that's the case here with West.

Angela - posted on 09/08/2012

I am wary of giving help - and to be honest I wouldn't be too swift to ask for help either. I think in this world you are in danger of compromising yourself in accepting favours sometimes - even if you don't ask for them! There's an old saying that there's no such thing as a free lunch. I have been ripped-off and taken advantage of more times than I can remember! I'm probably still more of a sucker for a hard-luck story than most of my friends, and they all laugh at me for this!



If I help someone, I need to use discernment if I'm really helping them, or just enabling them to become more dependent. Also, do I help someone with the loan of money when they're not using that money wisely? When they pay me back they will be left short again, especially if they didn't use the money wisely - so they will return to me for another loan! A neighbour gave me a lot of abuse because I would not lend him £2 when his children were cold and he wanted to put money he didn't have into a gas prepayment meter. This neighbour was too regular in borrowing money. To be fair, he had no job and was a single parent on welfare benefit - but so was I! I said he could bring his children into my house to keep warm alongside MY children, but this was not good enough! He was abusive and kicked my walls and doors on his way out of my house, swearing and cursing at me! I have learned to discern when people ask for money to feed their children whether the parents really wanted it to buy beer and have given food or groceries instead. People are not even grateful - which makes me feel that my original assumptions were correct.



Another friend who had very poor stewardship of money indeed was always broke. She was living a long, long way away from me and she phoned asking me to post her £30 - she only had one child - I had 4 kids. I said that borrowing £30 from me would probably cost her about £36. She asked why. I said I couldn't possibly mail money through the post without using registered mail which would be an extra £3 and she would need to register the repayment to me - hence £36. She said we didn't need to do this and the cash would be OK in the ordinary mail. I wasn't prepared to risk it as if she didn't receive it, she wouldn't be paying me back! And if I didn't receive her repayment, I would have lost the money as she certainly wouldn't have paid me TWICE!! Again we were both on welfare benefit. She had phoned me asking me for the money on the Saturday or Sunday night, having received her normal benefit money on the Friday morning.



She then phoned my next-door neighbour asking for £30 who asked her why she hadn't asked me, she said that she did but I apparently didn't trust the post (I did, as long as registered mail was paid for which she wasn't willing to do!) I explained this to my neighbour and she agreed with me. So since we did both feel genuinely sorry for her, my neighbour and I decided we WOULD risk £5 each - and not register the postage. We also decided that this would be a gift and we didn't want it back. Knowing that our friend smokes and we didn't want this essential money which she apparently "really needed" to go on cigarettes, my neighbour put in 10 cigarettes of this woman's favourite brand and I put in 20 cigarettes of a cheap, foreign brand. We both got phone calls thanking us and because we'd put a letter inside saying she didn't have to pay it back, she was extra grateful to us.



Then we saw a third neighbour who said this woman had phoned her as well. She hadn't asked to borrow any money from this other neighbour though. She had phoned her on the Saturday morning (remember she got her benefit money on the Friday morning) and said what a lovely meal out in a fantastic restaurant she'd had with her son the night before! We were all short of cash, but my friend and I had NOT bought expensive restaurant meals for ourselves or our children! £10 cash and 30 cigarettes 'free gratis' through the post to someone we felt sorry for when we were poor ourselves - someone who had spent a large portion of her week's welfare money on eating out! I don't even care about the money, it's the principle of it!



I'm happy to help out any GENUINE case of hardship. Anyone who is going in the same direction as me can have a lift in my car - if I'm USING my car! If I'm going from A to B on foot and I offer to keep someone else company who is making the same journey, I get rather annoyed if they're asking (hinting) if I'm using my car! I don't get my petrol for free and I'm in low-paid employment. I'll cheerfully give to charities but I'm slowly learning to effectively sniff out anyone who wants to simply take advantage of me.



Here's a meaningful scripture quotation:

1st Corinthians 3:12 - 15

12 "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;



13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.



14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.



15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."



Giving or loaning money to the undeserving, or wasting your time for no worthwhile purpose is "wood, hay and stubble" - it just gets consumed by fire and is worth nothing!



I'm sure many of you will disagree with me but once bitten, twice shy!

Carla - posted on 09/08/2012

Unfortunately, there is a saying among the Church community 'Christians are the only ones who eat their young'--meaning they don't tend to, nurture and care for the children of God. The NT, even the old, really, are constantly preaching servanthood--care for your fellow man above your own needs. Here's a quote from James 2:15-26:



''If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them NOT those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith BY my works. Thou believest that there is one God: thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought WITH his works, and by WORKS was faith made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.'



We get things mixed up. No, there is nothing we can do to EARN salvation, but once we have it, our faith is proved by our works. They go hand-in-hand. James was saying 'I will show you I have faith in God because I am giving away my personal goods, or time, knowing God honors my life of giving'. But this type of sacrifice isn't easy, and, indeed, is impossible, unless the Spirit of God is living inside you. When you don't see these fruits in the people who call themselves Christians around you, you can about bet that the Spirit is not inside them.



I'm sorry you were hurt by these people, honey. But let's us all redouble our efforts to prove ourselves to love our neighbor more than ourselves. Showing the love of Jesus goes farther than preaching to a person anytime.



God bless

Shelley-Ann - posted on 09/07/2012

Your experience reminds me of something that happened to me when I was younger. Please permit me to share it here.



One evening, when leaving work I bumped into a colleague who was heading in my direction so I got a lift to a taxi hub where I could get transport home. Now, I'd gotten a lift to work that morning, so I didn't check my handbag for money until I was at the taxi hub. To my horror, I only had $1. There was no ATM nearby and I didn't have a cell phone at the time to call anyone. I searched the row of taxis for a familiar face and found none. Then a car pulled in and it was a guy I knew from one of the churches I had visited some time before. He knew me, my parents, and my siblings... perhaps not personally, but by seeing us around and in church on occassion.



Anyway, I felt a little relieved and approached him, explaining my situation. He looked at me calmly, and with a smile said very politely "I'm sorry, I really can't help you if you don't have the full fare." I was in shock, and completely embarrased. Mind you, the full fare was $2.50 and I had a $1 so it wasn't like a big divide. I didn't know what to do, and was almost in tears. But, I had to get home because it was getting late so I mustered up the courage and decided to ask each of the taxis in the line waiting for passengers. I thought that at least one of them would help. The very next taxi driver I asked said "sure, you can pay another time." He even let me keep the dollar. And the next time I saw him I went to pay the fare I owed and he said not to worry about it.



What I learned, that day, is that God loves me and that He is taking care of me through the people whose hearts are open to him, whether they claim it is or not. So, West, regardless of whether the "Christians" around you help or not, remember that God is taking care of you and whoever answers His call to be there for you when you need someone, they hear His voice. Perhaps you can chose to point this out and help them further along their journey while you walk your own. In any case, know that you are loved and cared for, even through your challenging circumstances.

Shelley-Ann - posted on 09/07/2012

I used to wonder the same thing until I realized that Christianity isn't in a name, it's in the way we live. We are all on a journey and some of us have made it further than others in our understanding of what it really means to be Christ-like. Sarah makes a good point, but there are countless verses of scripture that talk about compassion and love to our fellow man. Two that come to mind are 1 Cor. 13:13 "the greatest of these is charity" and 1 John 4: 7 & 8 "he that loveth not, knoweth not God for God is love."



I think some people separate God from life. God is for sermons, church functions, and fellowship on days of worship... and for sounding pious and feeling righteous. Then there's life where you do what you need to do to survive (which often expresses itself as self-centeredness and a "what am I getting out of this?" attitude.) When we don't see that God is in everything, in every aspect of our lives, and that He's interested in what we do, say, want, think... well, there really isn't a reason for helping our fellow man, is there.

West - posted on 09/07/2012

Thank you Sarah that makes a lot of sense. Kind of an a ha moment for me.

Sarah - posted on 09/07/2012

Maybe it partly comes down to a misunderstanding of God's grace. We, as Christians know there is nothing we can do to earn God's love and forgiveness, so we don't do anything. Most other religions, including Islam are about doing what you can to please God and to earn your salvation through good works. Even non-religious people will try to live a good life, in the hope that they'll get some benefit in the end.

Bobbie - posted on 09/07/2012

God says to walk with all those among us. He may be turning their hearts to you in your time of need to raise your faith questions, Only when we question do you search for answers.

West - posted on 09/07/2012

I live over a mile from the nearest bus stop. Normally I'd walk but my doctor says I can't cause of my pregnancy complications. I'm finding this is usually the case of most people in most churches. I rarely see a Christian go out of there way or even try to help someone even if they have extra time or finances or food to spare

Carla - posted on 09/07/2012

Sweetheart, I am sorry things are all coming down on you at once. I am praying for you.



Just because someone 'says' they are a Christian doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth. Paul said 'You will know them by their fruits'. Look at the fruits--if their lives aren't backing up their mouths, they aren't Christians. Sounds like you might want to look into a different church. If your congregation isn't living up to their titles, this isn't the place for you. But that doesn't help you now. Do you have a city transportation service? Ours is called E-Tran--we used to call it for my dad, because we couldn't get his wheelchair in our vehicle--it cost like $2.00.



Remember, 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. Jesus' words, not mine. Somewhere along the line, your congregation has forgotten about this commandment from God. Not a suggestion, a commandment! Pray that they quit playing church and find a relationship with the Lord.



God bless, honey