Why are there so many Woman Pastors in our churches today? The bible seems to be clear that women are not to teach in churches yet today most seem to be okay with this happening?

Jenny - posted on 12/12/2010 ( 13 moms have responded )

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Just a few bible verses to help state my case....

I Timothy 3:1-2,

"This is a true saying, (This lets us know, any other saying apart from this true saying is a lie!) If a MAN desire the office of a Bishop, HE (Not She) desireth a good work. A Bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife, (It didn't say the wife of one husband!) vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach."

Listen to what Paul said in I Corinthians 14: 34-35

"Let your women keep SILENCE in the churches: For it is NOT PERMITTED unto them to SPEAK; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, LET THEM ASK THEIR HUSBANDS AT HOME: for it is a SHAME FOR A WOMAN TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH."

Why do so many disobey the bible in this regard? The bible makes it so clear that women are not to teach men in the church, as it is stated in Timothy 2:11-14,

"A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I DO NOT ALLOW a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression."

To me it is plain that the bible does not permit a woman to be a Pastor (i.e to teach a congregation of men & women) But i am confused because this is common practice in a lot of churches today. How can so many be fooled by false teaching? There must be more to it....can anybody explain?

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Tricia - posted on 12/12/2010

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Unfortunately, I think the Church today has absorbed many of the ideas/philosophies of the feminist/humanist world that surrounds her. We see that in many areas: The current Christian attitude toward motherhood/wifehood and mothers who choose to stay home with their children as well as with the attitude of the majority of churches in the western world toward women in positions of leadership/pastoring. The Bible clearly teaches that women and men are DIFFERENT and so should fulfill different roles. This says nothing about their relative worth, only about God's desire for order, harmony, and an accurate picture of His plan in our families and churches. It also says nothing about abilities, which is why the current argument in many churches that women are capable of leading/teaching a congregation is not an adequate reason for rejecting clear biblical teaching. As Christian women, we glorify God and give testimony to the world around us when we choose (regardless of our personal abilities/giftings) to submit to our husbands, care for and love our children, keep our homes, and, most of all, submit to God's plan for order. It is a sign of our strength, not of our weakness.

Rebekah - posted on 12/12/2010

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There are lots of posts that relate to this topic already in this forum, you can search for them.

But I still stand firm on the fact that Paul was specifically addressing the church of that day and time, you can study it out in the Hebrew/Greek - for the words in the Hebrew/Greek are not the same meanings.

But even the apostles had women prophets who spoke to both men and women! Deborah in the old testament was the first and only woman judge spoken of in the Bible and was head over MEN and women.

Jenny - posted on 12/12/2010

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i am glad that not everybody is in accordance with this practice.



@ Carla - it is sad that you say men aren't stepping up to the plate as there are more women attendees than men :( Sad time we live in indeed.



That should not give us an excuse to not listen to what the bible has to say on this matter, we must still defer to the rules set out there. In my experience there are plenty of men stepping up to the plate. There are plenty of male Pastors. Why make your wife a pastor if you are a pastor? Let her help you with your ministry but not to teach over men. Tha'ts where you should pastor not she.



We are living in the End Times and we must not be deceived like you said :)



@ Pat - i have not heard of Kay Arthur but she sounds like many of the women in today times that are ministers and Pastors. They are often Co-Pastors with their husbands and the husband has the final say and gives his wife authority to preach and so she does so under his authority. But to me, whats the point in your husband giving you authority to teach men when God does not give you this authority? You are stepping over the authority that God has ordained. But like you also mentioned, if she just speaks at women's functions then this is okay.





@ Rebekah i will look for those posts as i am interested in what people have to say, but originally i did not find them, hence i created one, sorry if this is repetitive :(



I think that when Paul gives us a command like "I do not ALLOW a woman to teach" then it is not just addressing one church. It is a command onto all of the churches of God.



He did not say that there cannot be female Prophets, he is allowing women to be Prophets. (eg 1 Corinthians 11:5 "But every woman who prays or prophesies" We hear of women praying or Prophesying in the bible but not of Preaching).



There is a difference between Preaching and Prophesying and i think once again we are moving away from this. Yesterday at a church i was visiting the woman pastor said she had a Prophesy from God and then she spoke her sermon. However, i did not hear any prophetic word come out of her mouth.



This is not how we see prophesy used in the bible. A prophesy in the bible is used to point out one's hidden sin (eg as per Paul's instruction in 1 Corinthians 14:24&25 ("24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the SECRETS OF THEIR HEARTS are laid bare.") and it is also to predict God's future plan for us.



So the apostles had women prophets and that is okay, but nowhere in the bible does it say that a woman TAUGHT the word of God in a church. There is an instance when Priscilla discipled Apollos but look how it was done - Acts 18:26 (NIV) "26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately."

This was done in her home with her husband not in the synagogue.



The only time in the bible where a woman lead men was Deborah like you mentioned. She was a Prophet and a Judge in a unique time when no men were willing to lead. However it does not say that she was in the temple, she used to sit under a palm tree and the people used to come to her for judgment. It was improper for a woman to be alone in a house with a man. So she went outside and sat down in a public place under a palm tree where she instructed the people in Torah. It does not say that she went to the temple and had authority over the male descendants of Aaron as ordained by God in those times.



To me the bible is still clear on this. I do not see how anyone can get anything else out of it if they study the bible with a humble and obedient spirit.

Carla - posted on 12/12/2010

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I believe it is because men aren't stepping up to the plate. In literally ALL the churches I have attended, women attended at least 2 to 1 over men.

We attended a church where a woman and her brother co-pastored. She was the head, and never let anyone forget it. The church got way off base, and we left.

We are getting closer to the End Times than we ever thought possible. The church is falling away, just as the world is. We have to watch ourselves doubly hard, so we do not fall away and get deceived. We cannot answer for anyone else, nor can we change anyone else. We just have to change ourselves, and let OUR lights shine, so people will see the TRUE way, and find Jesus.

God bless, darling!

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Heather - posted on 12/13/2010

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I am temporarily closing this conversation to further comments while it is reviewed by the admin team. Thank you for your understanding and responses.

Carla - posted on 12/13/2010

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I think this could get to be quite a heated subject, and we need to walk softly and in love.

I, too, have been called. I write, but mostly to women who have been damaged by the world. I had a dream many years ago of being up in front of a large crowd; I was telling my daughter about this, and she finished the dream, even telling me the color of the dress I was wearing! I have been adamant all my life about women pastors, because of the inherent traits in women--wanting to usurp the man's authority, but then, how do I explain the dream of my calling?

I have to believe that God knows what He's doing. I believe we are in the End Times, and during this time, I totally believe that He will use whoever is willing to accomplish His Will. We DO, however, have to keep ourselves under control, with the help of our husbands, to keep on the compass point. We have seen both women and men go off course.

I guess, bottom line, we need to pray--pray, pray, pray for answers.

God bless, all!

Jenny - posted on 12/12/2010

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I have read the entire corinthians in its entire context. Many times. I have not yet had the opportunity to read it in Greek or Hebrews as this is harder to acomplish. But if you have and you see my scriptual quotings as incorrect please correct me dicrrectly quoting from the Bible. Because you are not compling with what the Bible teaches.

Yes the Bible says that the husband and wife become one as Christ is one with God and the Holy spirit. This does not make us equal in authority in the face of God.
The bible clearly says that the Husband is above the Wife. Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior."
So clearly although we become one with our husbands we are still under them! Us being married to them does not give us any authority. I have not read this anywhere in the bible.

You said "
If you have a head covering, which the Bible references if you are married, it is your husband."
If you have read the original translation of 1 Corintians chapter 11 you should know that Paul refers to an actual "covering". A physical covering. Because it refers to men having NO covering when they pray or prophesy. How can they have NO covering when Christ is their head and covers them - in the way you would interpret it? It is very clear in that passage that Paul is talking about a physical covering over the head.

Also if you believe that the letter that is written to the church of the Corinthians then why do you back yourself up by using scripture that was adressed "solely" to the corinthians - about the head coverings in 1 Corinthians 11.

Victoria - posted on 12/12/2010

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I am a Church Lay Minister, next year I'll become a Pastor at the Licensed Minister level, then after about 4 years I'll be Ordained.

I preach and teach in all levels of our Church, Children's Church, Youth, Young Adults, WON Ministries (Women of Nobility) and the Main Adult Body. I always do so with my head covered (I choose to wear a Hat). I am always in submission to my husband and to my Senior Pastor.

I don't believe that a woman should be a Sole Senior Pastor, but I do believe husbands and wives can be and should be ministry partner. I like Rebekah will never say a female minister is a false teacher, Joyce Myers and many others have been used so powerfully by God. In Revelations God said in the last days He would pour out His Spirit on male & female alike, old & young.

I know God has called me, I know God uses me & I know that if I didn't walk in my calling & allow God to use me however He chooses to, then I would be going against Gods will for my life.

I don't have authority "Over" men, but I do hold a position of authority in the Church. I still have a husband who is my head, and a Senior Pastor who is the head of the Church leadership.

Also you have to remember that in scripture God always speaks to the "Man", does that mean we take all other scriptures as to only speaking to males, unless they specifically they are speaking to "wives" "Children" etc.
As for women not speaking in the Church, I believe that God was talking about calling out, being disruptive, not submitting to the Church leadership.

I think these days it applies to everyone, unfortunately Churches today tend to be run by congregations and large families within them instead of lead by the leadership God has set in place. So many Churches run the Pastors out of their positions for speaking Gods word, because they don't won't to receive if it. They want tickling ear ministry, yet because so many ministers are willing to be those ear ticklers, God is raising up. Man & Women, who will NOT compromise His WORD, but will come forth in the power of The Spirit & speak it, live it & stand firm in it.

Rebekah - posted on 12/12/2010

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Well, if we really look into the differences of the callings - apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor - each one is specifically different. Meaning an apostle is not the same as a prophet or teacher or pastor, and neither is a teacher the same as a pastor.

And again, I really encourage you to read 1 Corinthians in it's entire context. I have questioned this so many times and finally after so many Bible schools and scholars and their points of view, decided to study it out on my own. I really encourage you to read the Hebrew/Greek of the Corinthians in its entirety - the meaning of the verses in their original language has much symbolism and much emphasis to the Corinthian church and their culture.

I will never say a woman pastor is a false teacher, just as much I will never say a man pastor is a false teacher unless if that person does not claim Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, for that is the only Biblical emphasis we have for claiming a false teacher. Joyce Meyer is an amazing woman, with a wonderful woman's ministry and has an awesome pastorial ministry - never will I condemn her or disdain her, for I truly believe that can bring grief to the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit moves, it will use the vessel that is willing - whether it be man/woman. God sees men/woman equally - for when a man marries a woman they are no longer 2 people, but 1 flesh. He sees them as one, not male and female. God has ordained each of us with a specific gift within us and that gift cannot be revoked - if your calling is pastor, you can't deny it, if it's apolostic (as is what my gift is) you can't deny it. It's the gift God gave you.

I personally do not have a problem with a woman pastor. I do however have a problem with a woman pastor that may not teach Biblically and will bash men or make jokes about men and even degrade them - why would any man want to step up then?! I truly believe we need both men and women. I do believe God gave men roles and women roles, a man is to fight on the battlefield not a woman, a woman is to be a keeper of the home not a worker outside the home (and yet this is even in and of itself a touchy subject).

If you have a head covering, which the Bible references if you are married, it is your husband. If you are not married, it is Jesus! Then your headship is already bestowed upon you. It is what that woman pastor submits to - does she herself submit to the King of Kings? if she is married, does she submit to her husband? If so, then her head is covered and she may speak.

My husband and I have both been offered the senior pastor positions at our church. I have prayed hard about this, and I know it is meant to come about. But I will not accept the position, I will let my husband accept it. I will always be in submission to my husband and I always talk with my husband about the things God shows me and gives me and the revelation that has been revealed to me, for his guidance. I have spoke quite a few sermons at our church, but I am still under a man - my husband, who has approved the sermons. But both of us preach together many times. And I personally do not believe I am in any way in the wrong.

If women are stepping up because men are not, then I think would question the motives behind it. I truly believe our society has taught that women are to dominate and not be equal. And if a woman is stepping up into a position because no man was willing, I think I would seriously pray about that and ask God for a divine confirmation that this is the true person to fulfill the position. I believe God calls a man, but we as women have a tendency to defeat men so badly that they don't want to step up because if they do, they still won't be good enough. I personally, don't mind if I never stand in front of the church and preach, it would not bug me one bit. I love to hear my husband speak, as do many others.

But another book to check out is "10 Lies the Church tells to Women".

Heather - posted on 12/12/2010

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I believe that Kay Aurthur only preaches to other women, which the Bible does call us to do. I know several women who do that. Nancy Leigh DeMoss is one of my favorite speakers, but she only speaks to women.

There are many different takes on this. To be fair and really find the truth you would have to study it from both sides point of view. I have never done this, so I couldn't really tell you what the bottom line is.

Tricia - posted on 12/12/2010

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I've found the book, "Created to be His Helpmeet" by Debi Pearl very helpful in understanding this subject.

Carla - posted on 12/12/2010

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@Pat--I think in these end times that God is using whoever will lend themselves to Him. It is not up to us, ultimately, to say what is right. If God uses these women, the Gospel is being preached, and lives are being changed. As long as they are lining up with the Gospel------

Pat - posted on 12/12/2010

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i agree, i think its because there arent enough Spirit filled men stepping up. QUESTION... what about women like Kay Arthur who have a ministry, but she teaches and has books, but her husband is the head of the ministry? As far as i know, she speaks at womens functions.....kinda curious.. i really like her, but i wonder sometimes

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