Word Faith Movement?

Heather - posted on 11/29/2009 ( 22 moms have responded )

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Okay, I am hearing a lot about this lately (not on here). Has any one else heard of it? What is it?

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Heather - posted on 12/08/2009

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Ladies, I am going to lock this conversation. It went from the honest question that I posted to an argument about a specific teacher, which isn't what I wanted at all. I thank you for all of the information and opinions that have been given, but I think this conversation is no longer biblical. We are all Christians, but the Bible tells us not to quarrel.

Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Shayla - posted on 12/07/2009

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See that's the problem when people discuss things. Casting your pearls before swine was in reference to unsaved people, not Christians, for one.



The problem with Copeland and his ilk IS that he is preaching another gospel. Where in the bible does it say Christs atonement WASN'T finished on the cross as Copeland teaches and preaches? Where in the bible does it say we are "little gods", as Copeland teaches?



Kenneth Copeland, "It wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...... anybody could do that....Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only” ["From the Cross to the Throne"]



Kenneth Copeland, “When he said ‘It is finished’ on that cross, he was not speaking of the plan of redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun, there were still three days and three nights to be gone through.” “[Jesus] accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own Spirit, and at the moment that He did so, He cried ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’.” “He [Jesus] was down in that pit and there he suffered the punishment for three horrible days and nights for Adam’s treason... There is a new birth takes place in the very depths of the earth, when the command of God says That’s enough, loose him and let him go" ["From the Cross to the Throne"].



Kenneth Copeland, "God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself, and in the Garden of Eden He did just that. He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even. . . . Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus. . . . Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh" ["Following the Faith of Abraham I," side ].



Kenneth Copeland, "As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent because it is His Word." (Our Covenant with God [Fort Worth, TX: KCP Publications, 1987], 32.)



Kenneth Copeland,“Don’t be disturbed when people accuse you of thinking you are God … They crucified Me for claiming I was God. I didn’t claim that I was God; I just claimed that I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah! That’s what you’re doing …” (”Take Time to Pray,” Believer’s Voice of Victory, 2/87, p. 9)



Kenneth Copeland “You’re all God. You don’t have a God living in you; you are one! … When I read in the Bible where God tells Moses, ‘I AM,’ I say, ‘Yah, I am too!’” (”The Force of Love,” Tape BBC-56)

Victoria - posted on 12/07/2009

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Yes, It's hard for a rich man to come to Christ, but not impossible, also if you come to Christ, and you have a right heart, God can prosper you because He know you're going to use your prosperity whether it's spirit, soul/mind or body for His glory not your own.



But I'm going to stop on this subject as God tells us not to cast our pearls before swine & not to accept another gospel other than the one we've been given. I believe I will prospers in Christ in every area of my life & for those that don't want to that is their business.

Shayla - posted on 12/07/2009

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Two places we can find the phrase "by his stripes we are healed".

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Isaiah 53 is talking about the coming Christ. Chapter 53 talks about Christs suffering, how he is going to bear our sins, and be the Atonement. Not about our earthly health. When you read scripture you must take into account what the writer is talking about, and not just pull out a random verse, or in this case, PART of a verse.

Now to 1 Peter.

Here in the 2nd chapter, Peter is talking about submission to things like Gov, masters, how to live the Christian life before the world, which continues into chapter 3, with womens directive to be submissive to our own husbands. Now proceeding verse 24 in the second chapter we see how to act with our masters.

18Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

19For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Peter is instructing us to be like Christ, because he suffered on Calvary for us, so that we would be born into righteousness. The writer is speaking about the sickness of sin. By His stripes we are healed of the sickness of sin.

In Mark 10, we have the story of the rich young man.

17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

This doesn't mean that a rich man CANNOT go to heaven, just how much HARDER it is to accept that he must give up all to follow Him.

Since scripture dose not contradict itself, how can you line up what Christ said about how hard it is for a rich man to go to Heaven, with the idea that we ALL should be rich?? It doesn't work.

Victoria - posted on 12/07/2009

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KCM, very much speak the Word of God, and they don't dilute it, they speak it as it is written. From humble beginnings, God has used them very powerfully.

God's word does promise health & healing "By his stripes I am healed". God's word does promise prosperity, he says he is storing up riches in the hands of the wicked to give to the righteous.
Yes the bible does talk about how we will suffer for Christ, because perserverence must finish it's work, but it also talks about us being richly rewarded in this life & the one to follow. It's not magic & it doesn't just happen, it's miracelous & justly happens. When we are right with God, God promises to bless us, if you read through scripture you see it spoken so very clearly. God doesn't want a poor, sick , Church...That is NOT a good witness. God wants a healthy, prosperous Church, Spirit, Soul/Mind & Body.

I don't take offence at anything said, but I do hold to my beliefs and I do hold to the teachings I've been given. I won't say I agree to everything taught by some of these ministries, but I do belief in what they teach in the most part.

Being a minister myself and teaching some of what they teach myself, and believing for promises to be fulfilled in my life such a health and finances, I don't believe they teach out & out heresy as what they do teach does line up with the Word of God and where they are of tract, well God will straighten them up as He does with all of us when we make mistakes, the only difference is they make theirs in public. I've seen Kenneth Copland appologise for things that he has spoken, but God showed him he was mistaken. It takes a Godly, humble person to do that, and I will continue to support KCM, and ministries like them.

As for Jimmy Swaggart, the guy fell and messed up in a huge way, made bigger because it was played out in public he's human & satan got the better of him. He claims to have repented and turned his life back around, that's between him & God. What he did was wrong, but as for his relationship with God now, I can't judge that and I won't, all I will do is continue to pray for him & KCM and all the other high profile ministries, that as with my own life in ministry they will continue to make themselves available to God.

Shayla - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Victoria:

You have to be careful when listening to people that attack well established christian ministries. KCM is a has a good reputation internationally & has done so much to further spread the gospel or Christ around the globe. You can check out KCM.org they have broadcasts on the web & you can get their Believers voice of victory magazine delivered for free.

I've heard Kenneth & Gloria preach, I've read their magazine, and I've heard many of the ministers that are linked to them & heard many great testimony's about them & there ministry. Because of these things, I believe then to be the leaders of a ministry that is very greatly used by God.


I don't care if they appear good. So did Jimmy Swaggart. The point is this:



Are they preaching what scripture teaches? No. When they say "Thou shalt not touch mine annointed" they wish to stop all critisim.  NOWHERE in scripture (The Word of God, and our ONLY authority) is "little gods" taught, Adam was NOT equal to God Himself. We ARE all sinners even after redemption, we are NOT promised health, wealth and prosperity. Jesus' work WAS FINISHED on the cross. Kenneth Copeland teaches it was finished IN HELL.



All of these things are taught in the WoF movement. NUMBERS ARE NOT AN INDICATOR OF GODS WORK.  Just because you have a following of say... 1 million people, dosen't mean its a good church. The World LOVES to hear about how God is going to give you WHATEVER YOU WANT. The bible talks about how we will SUFFER for Christ.



If it's not in scripture, then we cannot claim it as the Word of God.



Yes, we all have doctrinal differences. Some Baptists say you aren't saved until you are baptised. Some Charasmatics say the outward evidence of Salvation is the Gift of Tounges.  Some follow closely with Calvinism. Some follow closer to Luther. BUT we do NOT have to stand idly by when we see out and out Heresy.



 



This is said in love. Don't take it as a personal attack. The bible says we are to search the scripture and see if what someone is teaching is true and faithful to Gods Word.




These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.



 



 



The best book on this subject is Charasmatic Chaos.

Anne - posted on 12/07/2009

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I really am not sure what else I could add to what has already already been said. BUT one thing I noticed when I read the responses was the love and concern to others feelings with these responses, even if the person responding did not come out and state their desire to kind it was still there in their response. What a Blessing to be part of a group the Puts God's Love before our own need to be "right".

Victoria - posted on 12/06/2009

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You have to be careful when listening to people that attack well established christian ministries. KCM is a has a good reputation internationally & has done so much to further spread the gospel or Christ around the globe. You can check out KCM.org they have broadcasts on the web & you can get their Believers voice of victory magazine delivered for free.

I've heard Kenneth & Gloria preach, I've read their magazine, and I've heard many of the ministers that are linked to them & heard many great testimony's about them & there ministry. Because of these things, I believe then to be the leaders of a ministry that is very greatly used by God.

Heather - posted on 12/05/2009

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Shayla,
Thank you for that video!!! It helped a ton! I'm about to check out the link, but again, Thank you!

Shayla - posted on 12/05/2009

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Quoting Victoria:

I think it depends which ministries you listen to. There are many word of faith ministries and many of them are well ground in the word of God & then you get some that have "peddled the word for their own profit" Kenneth Copland Ministries & Jesse Duplantis Ministries are both word of faith movement ministries and both excellent ministries, I think it's important not to put the good out with the bad.

Word of faith is about getting Gods word for your situation and standing on it and not being moved from it no matter what comes against you. Speaking the word in faith, believing the word and standing on it, weather about healing & health, finances, family etc... It's important to know that most of these ministries emphases that it's not magic & firstly our lives have to be lining up with Gods word & will for our lives. That our prosperity starts with our spiritual prosperity & then "when we seek first the kingdom of God, all these other things will be given unto us" I hope this helps Heather.


I have to butt in here. Kenneth Copeland is NOT, I repeat NOT preaching Gods word. Word of Faith preachers are perverting scripure to suit thier own agenda, whatever that may be.





Go to youtube, and put "/watch?v=kbjuHxEMjOA" (without quotes) after www.youtube.com

 



Great video, putting Word of Faith preachers VS THE HOLY SCRIPTURE.







http://www.truth.tc/information/KennethC...

Victoria - posted on 12/01/2009

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Quoting Heather:

Victoria, that reminds me of a friend I have. She wants nothing more then to dedicate her life to Christ. She moved to Egypt last year to take a position as a teacher there. Her goal was to share Christ with as many as possible. She was going to live like a pauper and dedicate her time and money to Christ. It was all she ever wanted. But when she got there things just started falling into place around her. Her landlord gave her a bigger apartment for less, and the university gave her a bus pass, and increased her salary. She called her mom and quoted Psalm 23. She was almost in tears when she said that God was making her lay down in green pastures. God is so good!


What an awesome testimony, but that's exactly it...That's exactly what the true and sincere word of faith movement is tlaking about. Wow I'm so encouraged and blessed by that testimony, thankyou so much for sharing that. AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!!

Heather - posted on 12/01/2009

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Victoria, that reminds me of a friend I have. She wants nothing more then to dedicate her life to Christ. She moved to Egypt last year to take a position as a teacher there. Her goal was to share Christ with as many as possible. She was going to live like a pauper and dedicate her time and money to Christ. It was all she ever wanted. But when she got there things just started falling into place around her. Her landlord gave her a bigger apartment for less, and the university gave her a bus pass, and increased her salary. She called her mom and quoted Psalm 23. She was almost in tears when she said that God was making her lay down in green pastures. God is so good!

Victoria - posted on 12/01/2009

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So glad to help. I fully believes that God means for His people to prosper Spirit, Mind/Soul & Body. However it's not magic, it's Miraculous.

He himself has said in Hag 2:8 that ‘The silver is mine and the gold is mine,’ declares the LORD Almighty. and that He stores ups wealth in the hands of the wicked to give to the righteous. But He also speaks about fixing the Spiritual house before being concerned with the Panel house.

Abraham, David and many such biblical elders we're the most prosperous people of their times, but they also had amazing relationships with God. I believe that Spiritual prosperity and physical/financial prosperity go hand in hand, but the spiritual MUST come first. Once again it goes back to Mt 6:33 "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

Heather - posted on 12/01/2009

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Thanks! That makes a lot more since the way you described it Victoria. I guess it's one of those things that is good as long as you keep it in context. I had always thought of the prosperity gospel in terms of the rich ruler that came to Jesus in Luke 18. But the way you described it makes a lot more since. So thank you all for clearing this up for me!

Victoria - posted on 12/01/2009

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Quoting Heather:

I have also heard that most word faith teachers also follow the prosperity gospel or something like that. Is that what you are referring to Victoria?


I'm not sure exactly what the "prosperity gospel" is. I know there are some ministries that teach prosperity out of context, like Rebekah said treating God like a genie or something. But Ministries like KCM & JDM teach prosperity, not just as a financial thing. They teach about seeking God earnestly for your spiritual prosperity & then as our lives line up with Gods word & will on the spiritual side, God will also take care of the physical needs in our lives, health, finances etc...



 



They teach in accordance with the scriptures that God wants His people to prosper in all area of their lives, because a poor sickly Church does not leave a good Godly witness, but it all starts with our spiritual health & a healthy realtionship with God & His word through Jesus Christ.

Rebekah - posted on 11/30/2009

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Quoting Heather:

I have also heard that most word faith teachers also follow the prosperity gospel or something like that. Is that what you are referring to Victoria?


There are some that follow prosperity gospel, but not all do.

Cheryl - posted on 11/30/2009

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Sounds like Prosperity Gospel. Alot of people thought Bruce Wilkenson's Prayer of Jabez was such ten or so years ago when that came out. That's the risk when people interpret scriptures, we are sinful humans and we have the possibility to take something the wrong way.

Heather - posted on 11/30/2009

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I have also heard that most word faith teachers also follow the prosperity gospel or something like that. Is that what you are referring to Victoria?

Victoria - posted on 11/30/2009

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I think it depends which ministries you listen to. There are many word of faith ministries and many of them are well ground in the word of God & then you get some that have "peddled the word for their own profit" Kenneth Copland Ministries & Jesse Duplantis Ministries are both word of faith movement ministries and both excellent ministries, I think it's important not to put the good out with the bad.

Word of faith is about getting Gods word for your situation and standing on it and not being moved from it no matter what comes against you. Speaking the word in faith, believing the word and standing on it, weather about healing & health, finances, family etc... It's important to know that most of these ministries emphases that it's not magic & firstly our lives have to be lining up with Gods word & will for our lives. That our prosperity starts with our spiritual prosperity & then "when we seek first the kingdom of God, all these other things will be given unto us" I hope this helps Heather.

Rebekah - posted on 11/29/2009

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It's not technically "bad" though, what some people have evolved it into is dangerous, but we should be believing and proclaiming through faith the will of God, which is God's Word. It's just sad that this movement is where it is now - for it really did start out on good solid ground. But like most things, it eventually gets corrupted... so sad.

Heather - posted on 11/29/2009

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Thanks Rebekah! I have found lot's of sites saying how bad it was, but couldn't find anything on what it was.

Rebekah - posted on 11/29/2009

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Heather, this has been around for a long time. It originally started out with good intentions, but now has evolved into something to be careful of. Basically, this is the movement that started out with proclaiming by faith the promises of God and if you believe it, it will happen - but it used to be stressed that it has to line up with God's will. Now this movement has had some twists and turns in it and is now almost treating God like a genie, basically, if you claim by faith that you will be rich, you will have money or power or fame or whatever "you" want. It's turned into a selfish movement, instead of what God wills for us.

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