Church Discipline

Carla - posted on 07/25/2011

Thanks for the back-up, Julie L. Yes, we are totally to judge our fellow Christians. Paul talks about it very openly. He said God judges the outside, we judge the inside. However, as everyone has stated, it HAS to be without axes to grind against that person, or out of pride. True Christians are to humble themselves and submit themselves to each other (Ephesians). The problem comes when people who try to pretend they are Christians get themselves into a jam, then cause division in the church under the pretext of 'you're not supposed to judge!' Paul said take them in front of the church IF they will not listen to you or to the two others you take with you the next time you go see them. This is how much he hated sin in the church and how much he felt it tore the church up. Nowdays we tear the church up on a regular basis rather than 'judge' someone. Here is yet again another example of Christians NOT reading the Word to understand our duty.

If we are true Christians, discipline is done out of love and fear--love of the person, and fear that if they continue they and others are going to be damaged. If we took that line, the church would be healthier.

God bless, honey

Julie - posted on 07/25/2011

I'm still not sure why so many christians say "do not judge" on issues like this - the bible repeatedly says to hold our fellow christians accountable - just that we have to do it out of love, do it privately as much as possible and to not be a hypocrite when doing so.

Carla - posted on 12/18/2010

Paul took a very hard line with sin. If a person sinned against another (like gossip or slander) the person gossiped about was to go to the person privately and try to straighten things out. If they would not, the person was to take one or two others, so that there would be witnesses of what was said by both parties. But if the person would still not admit their wrong, they were to be taken in front of the church body, and then if they didn't repent, they were to be expelled. Paul's stand, and I believe it is a good one, was that if you knew there was a chance you would be standing in front of all your friends and fellow Christians for something you did, you would keep your mouth shut! Good deterrent, as far as I can see. A pastor of ours heard of some women gossiping. He stood up in church on Sunday morning and said 'there's gossip going on, and if it doesn't stop immediately, next week I will name names!' The gossip stopped.

There is a big 'however' here. The ones bringing a person before the church had better be above reproach (take the beam out of your own eye before you take the speck of dust out of mine!) Paul expected no less. He told us that he wanted to present us before Jesus as a chaste virgin. That doesn't fit many of us Christians today. And you can't point fingers at someone when there are 4 pointed back at you! All this was to fit together perfectly, good pure doctrine, a strong pastor to shepherd us, and good sheep to grow in his tutilage and go out and bring in other sheep.

Cheryl - posted on 12/18/2010

Sarah, Bringing anyone in front of the whole church to humiliate them is wrong. Discipline done correctly is done in private. As a Christian, how do you reconcile what you believe and what the bible says here?

1 Corinthians 5 (New International Version, ©2010)



1 Corinthians 5

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

6 Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.



9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.



12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[d]

Sarah - posted on 12/11/2010

If the pastor or deacon pulls one aside privately then I can see that! I do not see how publicly humilating someone is disciplining them. Young teens being disruptive to church property ok they go stand in front of the congrgation to face everyone that they hurt. I will pray!

Sarah - posted on 12/10/2010

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Are we going back to the times of (ok its just a book) The Scarlet letter? No matter what your fellow sister did. It is not in anyones job to judge her but GOD himself!! Regardless...church discipline would be in front of everyone whether they know what happened or not, now knowing what happened.Then they judge you and make comments. I don't know about you but I don't know everyone at my (BIG)church nor would I want all of them to know all about me. We are all sinners! We just need to ask God for forgiveness. LET HIM JUDGE!!!



I wrote this before reading everyone elses response. I still stand firm that even done in "Pauls way" it will some how get misconstrued, & not be the way God meant it to be. LET GOD DO THE JUDGING!!



I too have had very bad church experiences in my life. The newest 1 has brought me out of a church where I made lots of friends many of which I still have. I'm seeking a new church home. In the mean time of trying to find the church that is right for my family, I pray & I read my Bible. I'm Christian! I ask for forgiveness! My family & I make mistakes but we pray about it PRIVATELY and we ask God to forgive us!!!



I do not think that a church or anyone should judge anyone else! We all have skeletons in our closet. God knows and still loves us! I had a baby out of wedlock, but that doesnt make me a bad person & it doesnt mean that my parents did a bad job and should be punished. Nor does it mean that I should be disciplined in church for it!



I guess I'm christian in a different light than everyone else! I believe in a God that when you ask him for forgiveness, and tell him you have sinned. He does just that HE FORGIVES!! NOT JUDGES!!!

Cheryl - posted on 12/04/2010

Yes, I believe in church discipline as stated in the New Testament.

Unfortunately when we by faith are saved, we are not granted biblical genius. Churches are made up of saved humans doing their best. If you don't now, start to pray for your church, if you already do, don't stop.

The church needs to offer the forgiveness for which Christ died yet maintain the doctrines of the word of God.

This is a very difficult line to walk. Some church bodies fall to the left or to the right of it by inches and some through ignorance miles, yet, the church needs to attempt to walk it and teach it.

We live in a world that resents discipline. That's sad for us. Discipline from God as outlined in scripture is for our benefit.

We all make choices, I have my struggles with choices in my life also, I understand how confusing, embarrassing and how hard making those decisions can be. When we skirt appropriate scriptural discipline by excusing our actions for whatever reason we not only hurt ourselves, our families, our neighbors, but we damage the unsaved. Many, watching the sinner this very minute, unbeknownst to them, see their hypocritical life as a reason to not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. It's a sad thing for everyone when we chose on purpose to live a life that the Word of God condemns.

If you comfort someone who continues to live a life in sin, it is not kindness. It does not benefit them. It makes you feel good and them feel good. But if you think of sin as a cliff, the person who is sinning as blind, the truth is you are helping them walk right off a cliff. In your kindness you devastate them, you destroy them. The wages of sin is death, God says.

Truthfully, in my opinion, comforting a sinner, in their sin is self serving vanity, not love. Some believers do not understand the necessity to love the sinner while rejecting the sin. For those who now know and understand this truth, loving the sinner while rejecting the sin is often misunderstood as rejection of the person.

We are fallible, humans who only have our best to give at any single moment in our lives. We make mistakes. That is why it is so important that we attend church regularly and straighten ourselves with better and better understanding of God's word. What a travesty it is when our church dances around an issue. Often, the church body may not understand the truths of scripture, or they may not wish address problems in hopes to gain members, or in fear of losing some. When the bride of Christ falls into this feel good yet highly destructive category from time to time; the end result to all is totally opposite of the intended outcome.

Julie - posted on 11/20/2010

I've sort of let my church. I still attend the once a month friday night services and continue going to a bible study group where around 3/4 of the group are from there. and I'm still a leader in a children's ministry on tuesday night's that is based at the church there (but has very little support or respect from the church despite it being a very successful ministry that has been going strong for at least 25 years there, probably a lot longer. I attended as a child myself starting 25 years ago, but I know it had been there for years when I started).
I still have to deal with members of the church leadership in my role of working with children, but thankfully they are in the process of hiring a new head of children's ministry who hopefully won't be like the previous one.

I think those in paid ministry in our church have improved somewhat in recent years. With a little luck, the rest of the church will follow suit (and really hoping for a good child and youth pastor or leader - we don't have female pastors, we just call them a ministry coordinator).

The way I see things, I hope to marry my boyfriend one day, at which point I will move in with him which is a long way from where I live. I would go to church and bible study with him. I would try to find a girls brigade company (the children's ministry I'm involved in) at a church near his (his church doesn't have a girls brigade company but it's an important ministry I want to continue). The church I eventually settle on for now will only be a temporary measure for a few years. I just hang in here until the time comes to marry and move.

My boyfriend hasn't proposed, but he has asked me if I will move to be with him and go to his church etc if were to marry, and to me, that seems like the perfect time for a fresh start. His church has welcomed him with open arms since he moved there a few months ago and both the leadership of the church and the others who go there, sound like pretty good people.

all I got to do is hang in here for a few years more.

Gail - posted on 11/19/2010

I think that this attitude is very dangerous. It's very prevalent in our society and has spread to the church. It's not my problem. Let someone else deal with it. But that is not biblical and has no place in the church.

We are a body and we need to put others before ourselves. Church discipline is not about punishment, and it's certainly not about gossip or harrassment. It's about a heart felt concern for a member of our family.

It should always be approached with love and humility. But the truth is we can't make others do the right thing or have the right attitude. We only can control our own behavior. So don't let other people's reactions throw you off. Keep on keeping on. And give it to the Lord. He's the only One with the power to change people.

Of course if the church leadership is not following scripture, and not open to biblical correction you should consider finding a church that does.

I too was subjected to improper church discipline that was totally off base. We ended up leaving that church, but we were very careful not to gossip, or complain, or cause any kind of a rebellion. Later the Pastor apologized, and we are still friends, but we never went back.

Carly - posted on 11/19/2010

"do you believe, as a Christian, in church discipline, as outlined by Paul's teachings for today?"

Yes. And I think that all of the NT is written for today and forever. People shouldn't pick and choose what they follow from the NT and what they follow in the culture. We are called to conform to Christ and His Word, not the culture. I doubt that God is happy when people say that they follow Him, but then refuse to actually follow what He says...

There are steps to discipline. If a friend sins against you, take it to them and give them a chance to repent (Luke 17:3-4; Matthew 18:15). If they don't listen or repent, then you are told to bring it to the church (Matthew 18:15-19). If your church ignores what the Bible says about discipline, they will be accountable for that, whereas -you- will be accountable for what -you- personally do or do not do. Make sense?

If your church is picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to follow and ignore, that is a serious problem. God taught us how He wants things done. We don't have to worry and wonder about what to do: it's all there for us already!

Carla - posted on 11/19/2010

You've left that church, right, Julie? We both have horror stories about our past churches. I think that as the world gets worse and worse, the churches naturally get worse, too. If Satan can break up the church, the Christian family, he has done his job. We pray for different religions on different days, I don't want to disclose the two, because I don't want to offend, but on Sunday we pray for Christians--true Christians that are trying to witness and conduct church in a Godly manner, those who call themselves by the holy name, but don't act like one, and then for those we can witness to that will become Christians. I would suggest we all pray on Sundays that the Church wakes up and starts to act the way Paul received the principles from Jesus through the Holy Spirit, and for Christians to stand up and call sin sin. Finally, pray that, when we stand up and conduct ourselves in a Godly manner, loving God, loving others, that the world will see the difference in us and want what WE have, NOT what the worldly churches have (or don't have).

God bless, darlings

Julie - posted on 11/19/2010

Gail, what do you do when no one in the church has the guts to go with you to confront a person repeatedly committing a hurtful sin?

when everyone you approach just says "oh that's between you and them and none of my business" and "oh I have my own problems, i don't want to deal with yours" or those who simply say "just keep turning the other cheek" and refuse to help?

when everyone in the church either falls into the category of doesn't care or doesn't want to rock the boat or as mentioned, think victims should just turn the other cheek?

It's not a matter of showing these people in the bible that verse (and other similar ones). They just come out with the above excuses and think that it's an insult to ask them to be the "1 or 2 witnesses" for the first approach.

Julie - posted on 11/19/2010

Proper church discipline is very important in a healthy church.

The problem I find is that church discipline is abused frequently.

Like when my husband and I were told before we were married not even to hold hands because it was giving weight to untrue rumours that we were having sex - but the lying creep who was spreading the rumours was not spoken to at all.

That was a common thing in my church - when untrue rumours were started, the victims were spoken to and in many cases punished, for something they didn't even do (even when the leadership knew the rumours were false) but the rumour-mongers were not even spoken to.

In the time we were dating and engaged, we were probably the only couple that didn't have premarital sex. We were open about holding hands, kissing - all the things you can do while dating without becoming sexual about it. We were open about everything to do with our relationship.
While other young couples in the church were sneaking around behind closed doors having sex - and even when they were caught out, it was swept under the carpet, except when they fell pregnant and then they were pressured to get married before the baby was born. And even then, little was said.

There were exceptions - some of those caught out falling pregnant to premarital sex copped a lecture, but nothing like rubbish my husband to be and I went through.

I was going to say, at least with only their dirty insinuations and no proof (because there was no premarital sex happening) I wasn't stopped from being in ministry roles, whereas those having extramarital sex in our church aren't allowed to help in the church, but then I realised the difference...

those my age in the church who were sleeping around before marriage (even to this day), are allowed to be in ministry roles, it's just married people who have sex with other people who are disciplined that way.

Which is fair enough punishment for extra marital sex, but premarital sex is little different - you're still sinning, you're still disrespecting your future spouse.

Church discipline is needed in churches, but churches need to stop punishing those who are doing nothing wrong, and need to stop ignoring those who are really sinning. Stop punishing victims of bullies and gossips and start punishing those hurting others doing the bullying and gossiping.

Yes, turning the other cheek can be a good thing - but not everyone is strong and perfect. When someone has been hurt and abused, the last thing they need is to be told they should just put up with it.

Turning the other cheek only works if an impartial leadership steps in and protects victims and takes actions against bullies and abusers.

I have seen many people not only turn their back on my church, but church in general and sadly in many cases, on God too, because they could not take both the bullying and the church leadership's refusal to do anything about it. And what concerns me most, is all the non christians I've seen develop a hatred for church, christians and God because of the bullying they have witnessed when someone has brought them to church.

It's all well and good for a christian to turn the other cheek, but when a non christian sees someone being bullied and no one in the church doing anything about it, they think we're all a bunch of cowards and bullies who don't care about injustice and abuse.

For this reason, church discipline is so important. People need to be held accountable for their actions BUT we also have to be so careful not to punish those who haven't committed the sin they are being blamed or punish people for actions that aren't actually sin.

Gail - posted on 08/17/2010

Yes, but it has to be done exactly the way it is outlined in the Bible. Confront the person yourself in a spirit of love and humility (not judgement). If person doesn't listen or doesn't want to change, then take another person with you (preferably someone who knows the person and is very mature in Christ) If there is still no response you need to bring it to the Pastor's attention and let him deal with the situation. Our Pastor rarely brings these things before the whole church, unless they are highly visible in a ministry. But he will communicate it to the leaders.

Jakethia - posted on 08/10/2010

Yes, I think it is good for them to discipline kids at the church, but not hitting on them, it good to talk to the kids and their mother. It is good to have counseling for the kids at the church, because everybody goes through something in life, that why some people go to church for, so things can go right for them in there home, work, and anything that causing them to act out in another way. So, it's ok to discipline the kids in the church.

Carla - posted on 08/10/2010

I think that is wonderful, Shelley! Maybe I've been in the wrong churches ;)

Shelley - posted on 08/09/2010

Yeah our church does.
always through the elders and decons.
Our pastor will give topical sermons and speak to issues in the church. eg gossip, tithing, facebookect He will take people aside for councelling in reguards to pre marrital sex, unfaithfulnesd in marriage, dishonesty ect.
I'm a decons wife so i can't really talk about alot but i'll give some that would be ok or are general knowledge.
a pastor was sacked for not reporting something to the police.
An actor who was in something deemed to be inappropriate was asked to apologise to the congregation and now pursues another career avenue.
At another church when i was younger a group of boys who misbehaved at a youth event involving the distruction of church property were brought before the elders and made to do a certain amount of church service lawns, gardening, cleaning serving morning tea to the elderly.

Carla - posted on 08/09/2010

Thanks, Shelley, does your church use it? I ask, because I have never, in the almost 60 years in church, seen anyone brought up on charges in the church. The closest I saw was a lovely minister of ours--there was a lot of gossip going on. He got up on Sunday and said 'there's gossip going on, and if it doesn't stop, next Sunday I will name names.' It stopped!

I think, of course, that it is the only way to keep the church (us) in line. I am wondering if people would accept it or cause a stink.

Thanks, honey, God bless!

Shelley - posted on 08/09/2010

I thoght this quote might be helpful.
"We use Church dicipline to help keep the church pure and to help wayward people repent. But Satan tries to harm the church by tempting it to use discipline in an unforgiving way. This causes those exercising discipline to be proud of their purity, and it causes the person who is being diciplined to become bitter and perhaps even leave the church entirely. We must remember that our purpose in dicipline is to restore a person to the fellowship, not to destroy him or her. We must be cautiouse that personal anger is not vented under the guise of church discipline." (James.c Galvin).
I think god is the same yeasterday, today and tomorrow therefor i think the bible most definately is relevent today and therefor as pauls teachings outline church dicipline is an important part of our walk with the lord.