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Carla - posted on 07/20/2012
Antonia and her little friends have been very busy this morning. They are NOT part of Christian Moms or Christian Mommies, even though some of them officially joined our sites. I have blocked all her little friends from our site, and urge the administrator of this site to do the same.
Pray for these kids, as they need Jesus in their lives. This post doesn't seem bad, but I know their intent, as I have been deleting VERY inappropriate stuff all morning.
God bless, and be on guard, ladies.
Heather - posted on 06/22/2012
PS. There is no Biblical reference anywhere to a relationship of mutual respect and love between two persons of the same gender. All Biblical examples, as scholars and theologians understand them, refer to practices where one person exercises authority and power over the other through same-gender relations. Examples include rape of a captive soldier or the use of young male prostitutes forced into servitude. Even Paul had no point of reference for any loving relationship of this kind.
Heather - posted on 06/22/2012
"You say.."I" have reached the conclusion.... as if what God wants us to do is to read the Bible...kick it around a little bit....throw in a couple of other outside resources (books/films).....talk to a few individuals....allow for all of the public influence of today's world....and then come up with what "we" think is "ok" to use as a standard in a certain matter. And although that sounds like a "compromising" type of idea....That is not what God intended. The Bible is the Bible...inspired by God.....the most widely read book in the world.... The standard for a Christian life. And why...if there are quite a number of passages in the Bible that condemn homosexuality...do we need to "stack" up outside resources that say otherwise."
Let me make a couple points:
1) I do believe that God created human beings with brains and the capacity for thought for a reason. I do not believe that He gave us the Bible so that we could read each verse and put it into literal practice in our lives. Some parts, yes, but others, no. It is wise for us all to remember that a) There are many different types of writing contained in the scriptures, and b) Since none of us can read it in the original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic, we all start at the same point of relative ignorance, doing the best we can to make sense of it through solid teaching and the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
2) I don't believe that there ARE several verses which condemn homosexuality. There are 7 that are interpreted as such, 2 written by Paul (who, by the way, used a Greek word found NO WHERE else in scripture and therefore difficult to translate, the word 'homosexual' was not used in Biblical translations until 1946). I believe people misinterpret stories like creation (if it's b/c it's natural for procreation there are LOTS of people in trouble- any one using birth control, post-menopausal women, women who are for some medical reason unable to conceive but are married, etc) and Sodom and Gomorrah (these cities were not destroyed b/c of homosexual "behavior", but because of attempted rape, lack of hospitality, and other uncouth practices- for goodness sake, Lot offered up his virgin daughters to be raped instead- yet I hear no one yelling about that!!). The other references are contained in the purity code- which also states we should not wear clothing made of mixed fabrics, should wear tassels on the four corners of our clothes, a man should not touch a woman who is menstruating, a woman's hair should be neither cut nor braided, and there are several foods that we all eat often that are expressly forbidden. In addition, men are permitted multiple wives, as well as concubines, girls can be married off as young as age 11-12, and men and women are both to be stoned if caught in adultery. We do not condone these practices, yet choose to use this same code to condemn those who feel love for a person of the same gender.
All this to say- we oversimplify by assuming everything in the Bible can be interpreted literally without consideration of the original language or cultural context. These things hold great bearing on how we should treat scripture now. I would also suggest that it is wise to examine how Christ used scripture. Did HE beat people over the head with it? Did HE hold to the purity code? Did HE promote literal interpretation of all Old Testament scriptures and laws?
Just food for thought...
Carla - posted on 06/22/2012
Ya know, we have had this conversation a lot. And it always comes back to 'well, the Bible was written by Man, and therefore open to different interpretation'. But I have a question---IF you believe that the Book God gave us to live our lives according to His Will wasn't written by Him, Holy Spirit-inspired, then WHY are we even following any of the principles? And as for the statement we take to heart what we believe in particular--there's a LOT of things in the Bible that rub me the wrong way! My flesh doesn't want to comply, and it has taken me a loonnnggg time to come to the conclusion that I have to let my spirit read the Bible, then command my body (flesh) to obey. This has NOT been easy for me! I love speed. I could have been an Indy car driver, or lived in Germany where there is no speed limit. Oh, I could feel the wind in my hair, hear the motor screaming as I floor board it---BUT! We are told to obey the laws of the land, and though the constraints of speed limits chafes me bitterly, God is really dealing with me about driving 55, not 58, not 65, not 85. I also have not given anyone the finger or screamed 'where'd you get your drivers license, Kmart?' in ages. God IS working with me ;)
Bottom line is--this IS the Holy Word of God. What we choose to do with it is left entirely up to us.
God bless, all
Angela - posted on 06/22/2012
Denise, I have already summarised a few pointers in my own post which discuss the accuracy of translation - no-one is suggesting the Bible is wrong, just that there may be a few incomplete or misinterpreted statements here and there! People will very much rely on what their minister might say - their minister's interpretation of a popular translation of the Good Book will be pretty much the version most embrace. There are several parts of the Bible that I have heard interpreted in different ways!
For example, in Genesis 18, three "beings" visit Abraham and Sarah. This scripture is often a chosen reading on Trinity Sunday in Churches of England and Roman Catholic congregations - the inference being that the three are the Holy Trinity. A pastor in a Pentecostal Church I attended said these three WEREN'T the Trinity! Now to me, it does not matter either way if Abraham's 3 visitors were the Trinity or not. If they WERE the Trinity, then that's great that there's clear Old Testament evidence that God is threefold; if however, they WEREN'T the Trinity, we are still very much aware that Father, Son and Spirit were active in the lives of Abraham and many other Old Testament people of God - and that God sent visitors to test Abraham - verifying a New Testament scripture "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares" (Hebrews 13:2).
To be perfectly honest there will be an "expert's" viewpoint to be found on ANY issue within the Bible - and there will also be an opposing viewpoint from another expert. At the end of the day, people will believe what they WANT to believe - they will choose the interpretation that is most attractive to them. Often, if they have strong feelings on the matter in hand which have been held for a lifetime, those are the feelings they will stick with - and they'll find scripture to support it - or an expert's analysis of a scripture that makes them happy and comfortable. That's why I'm quite wary myself. I would be happy and comfortable if the Lord was accepting and non-judgemental about gay people living the typical homosexual life - i.e. with a same-sex partner they were happy with! But even if an expert said this was so, that doesn't mean it's the correct "God-intended" interpretation - nor is the opposite stance "It's a sin in God's eyes and always will be" necessarily the correct and God-intended interpretation!
Here is a weblink - about 3½ years old - which discusses the likelihood of homosexuality being genetic.
It doesn't PROVE that homosexuality occurs genetically, it only supports the theory that it might.
For all of us, the person we become is a combination of nature, nurture and self-direction. Since gay children are overwhelmingly born to heterosexual parents, I doubt that it's nurture! And because of the prejudice, persecution and difficulties a gay person frequently faces in life, being gay isn't a conscious choice of self-direction - who would choose a path in life that's going to be so hard? I will concede that if a person CHOSE to be gay, then that indeed would be a sin! So that leaves us with nature.
Years ago, Christian Church leaders practically persecuted a man, Christopher Columbus, for stating that the world was round - they insisted it was flat. This man, Columbus was seen as blasphemous, a heretic etc ... All because he had the audacity to overturn a long held, deep-seated "truth".
Scriptural truths gleaned from the Bible are only as reliable as the translation we're reading and if we're reading it with a Holy Spirit-led, open mind. Remember that Jesus himself made no comment about homosexuals - that's how important it was to the Lord himself!
In Matthew 28.20 He says: "lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." Was this wonderful promise only addressed to heterosexuals? I sincerely hope not!
Denise - posted on 06/21/2012
I, too, have done a ton of research on homosexuality this past year...especially since a child of mine had "come out" to us last summer. And, while I appreciate your thoughts, I have reached a different conclusion. In this world of ours...it would be nice if "we could just all get along" and not point the finger at any individuals and say that what "they" are doing is sinful. And right now...I hear in my head..."Let he (she) who is without sin cast the first stone". But as your comment states.....You say.."I" have reached the conclusion.... as if what God wants us to do is to read the Bible...kick it around a little bit....throw in a couple of other outside resources (books/films).....talk to a few individuals....allow for all of the public influence of today's world....and then come up with what "we" think is "ok" to use as a standard in a certain matter. And although that sounds like a "compromising" type of idea....That is not what God intended. The Bible is the Bible...inspired by God.....the most widely read book in the world.... The standard for a Christian life. And why...if there are quite a number of passages in the Bible that condem homosexuality...do we need to "stack" up outside resources that say otherwise. Like ...the Bible is 1 source...but if a person produces 10 other sources with an oposing view....then that person "wins". And it is not because I am close minded...and not open to discussion on many matters....but I do believe that the Bible is to be revered. And I also believe that in this world, where, as you say (and I agree) people fall victim to common sins on a daily basis....that to be on the safe side in these larger matters...it is better to follow what the Bible says...and not try to interpret it to fit our needs.
Angela - posted on 06/21/2012
Great post Heather. I've not researched the topic at any great length but as a Christian, I have always felt the party line was hard. I personally hate the use of words like "lifestyle" and "choice" used in this context.
As Christians, our Bible (i.e. the Bible we each individually refer to that's in our own language) is a translation of the original tongues. Sometimes it's even a translation of a translation - or a paraphrase Bible. The meanings of some of the words and/or phrases may be lost in the translation - not every word in an ancient tongue has an equivalent in every modern language.
Christians often choose which parts of the Bible to take literally at face value (e.g. the Ten Commandments - Exodus 20), which parts to take metaphorically or figuratively (e.g. Abraham's bosom - is it a literal place of refuge after death? Luke 16:22) and which parts they might feel are obsolete as they're judged to be relevant only to the time in which they were written (e.g. should women remain silent in Church? Rather a lot of female preachers these days! 1 Corinthians 14:34). And this judgement about how to interpret Biblical truth and guidance can be rather subjective!
Also, not once in the Bible did Jesus himself speak out against homosexuality. He had rather a lot to say about wealth - far more than Paul ever said about homosexuals (and many Christians conveniently ignore this). And of course Jesus regularly spoke of mercy and love.
I am not a sinless person myself and would never claim to be. However, speaking as an ordinary human being, I would be more affronted by violence, theft, cheating and lies than I ever would by someone's homosexuality. And gay people - just like straight people - are equally capable of the more ordinary, "conventional" sins that we're all guilty of from time to time.
Religious judgement from Christians (or indeed anybody of any religion, speaking on behalf of their faith's doctrines etc ...) is just as painful as general anti-gay prejudice and hatred - not forgetting those who say they have nothing against the gay community but will still make jokes and ridicule gay people for their own amusement and entertainment.
Those who feel the gay community are fair game for prejudice, bigotry, hatred, religious judgement or ridicule - how would you feel about other marginalised people being treated like this? Say people with disabilities? Or people of a different ethnic group?
Most of us need to take a long, hard look at ourselves!
Heather - posted on 06/21/2012
I have spent the last year of my life doing research on the 'issue' of homosexuality. I had some gut feelings that just didn't line up, yet I thought I knew what the scriptures say about it. I read scientific research on the link between genetics and sexual orientation, I read theological arguments on both sides of the debate, searched the scriptures myself, learned about the society and culture in Biblical times, learned about the Greek word translated as 'homosexual' in current Biblical translations, etc... I talked with Pastors and with people who are actually gay. In all of this searching, I have reached the conclusion that being gay is, in fact, not a sinful lifestyle choice at all, but another one of the differences that God has woven into the fabric of humanity. I encourage you to do research beyond literal reading of the 7 passages commonly used to condemn those who are gay. A few resources for those who are interested in learning more:
I highly recommend-
The movie "Fish Out of Water"
The book "More than Welcome"
This website: http://gaychristianyes.org/
Denise - posted on 06/02/2012
I just want to say that if you ever feel the need for some "extra" encouragement or need to vent a little....please come back to this site. None of us would be on this site if we were not being affected, somehow, by someone we know or care about who is gay. And while no one here has all the answers....sometimes just "talking" about something with someone else can help to sort things out. Sure...none of us may be in your exact situation....but just like me...I am the mother who has a daughter who seems to have gone through a similar childhood. And to be truthful...there may be a time, again in the future, where YOU can be of encouragement to another person. So....even if you don't comment regularly...check back from time to time. And know... that when I pray for MY daughter....I will be including YOU in my prayers also...that God will walk by your side daily...and help you to be strong.
Sharon - posted on 06/01/2012
Know that people are praying for you, I am.
Pray for your child
Love your child
I've always had sin in categories; this one worse than that one, this is more acceptable than that, etc. But the sin in my life is just as great as the sin in a murderers life and God loves us the same.
Then I think of the Isrealites; how they saw God's hand at work and turned their back on Him anyway and then came back, saw God's hand at work and turned their back on Him yet again. Moses still loved them with the love of God and led them through the wilderness.
I pray for your child and many others.
Just keep loving them.
Denise - posted on 05/31/2012
Thanks so much megan for telling me a little about yourself. I really wanted to know a little more but didn't want to "push' for information. It seems then that you are just a little younger than my daughter...since you are just a sophmore in college. I am happy to hear that you are as involved with your church's Praise & worship team and do the christmas program. It seems that you "put on" a pretty good "front" if people would use such positive words to describe you. It's funny....that you should say that even though you do these activities and try to stay busy that your true feelings are always at the forefront of your mind....because...I am "putting on a pretty good front too"...in being active and seemingly happy and carefree when everyday...every hour...every minute I have my daughter and her situation on my mind..my stomach is in a knot...and my heart is breaking. But...I will tell you megan...I would feel so much more "encouraged' about my daughter if she were at least trying to fight this hold on her....put up some resistance...not just give in to it. Like you...when my daughter was young...even
"if" she did have these feelings...she was not one to show a lot of emotion either...and probably that's why she didn't confide in us. After looking up stuff on the internet and purchasing several books on same sex attraction....I do realize that there really is no sure "cure' for it....and that feelings for the same sex always linger. I have provided my daughter copies of all the things that I have read....and even though she seems to ignore all of it right now...when i was up at her apartment late last year I took all of this infomation and put it into a small box, taped it up, and labeled it..."Don't ever throw away - Important"...and put it on the top shelf of her closet. I told her that I was putting it"out of the way".....but for her to remember where it was. Someday...I told her...you may have a change of heart...and want to look at what is in there. I believe that it is going to take a modern day miracle for that to happen... and THAT is what I pray for every night when I go to bed. Thank you Megan for letting me know your struggle...because when my daughter does cry out for help,,,I will at least understand her a little more. I admire your courage to face each day....and for your will to try to be a Christian. And "if" Mr. Right ever does come along...since you have bi-sexual feelings now....let yourself "love & be loved". You are very, very young...too young to say that you intend to go this life alone forever. Never say never. Thanks again for the insight. You have someone praying for you again tonight...me........"feel it".
Megan - posted on 05/31/2012
I do understand where you are coming from. I can imagine your frustration with your daughter. Let me say a little more about me, maybe so that anyone else reading this will know that their children might be trying to handle this situation in the most Christianly way possible.
When I realized at four years old that I was attracted to this girl at my church, I immediately realized that something was wrong. Every couple I had ever seen at that time was male-female. I knew to be ashamed of it. And never being an open person to anyone, I hid it. I couldn't tell my parents, who would have been ashamed as well and tried to get me some kind of help. After a while, the feelings for the girl went away and I thought I was in the clear. But then in Junior High, they came back, and it wasn't just one girl. I began to tell a few friends that I really trusted. But once in high school, the secret got out somehow. I was able to deny it and get most of the accusers to believe me, but that still didn't stop suspicion. My sophomore year of high school was when I really started to consider suicide. The hatred from them and from myself was taking its toll. It was then that I began to wonder about a future. I wanted a family, kids, a house, the picket fence, etc. That's when I started to fight myself into being bisexual, which was not easy at all. I became very depressed, hardly ever left my house except school, quit playing every sport I was involved in, and nearly lost all of my friends. I now know that IF Mr. Right comes along, I would be okay. But there's still the problem with being more attracted to women. I fell in love with one of my friends two years ago, and that was the last straw. She found out and dropped me like a hot potato. I swore from that moment on that I would not fall for anyone ever again, man or woman. I'd been making it on my own for so long, and I could continue to do so.
I knew that if I could make this promise to myself, then maybe it would be okay. Surely God wouldn't send me to Hell if I don't ever act on my feelings. I started to get back into my old life. I formed and now lead our church's Praise and Worship team, and put together the Christmas program every year. I try to lead the best Christian life I can. I know I'm not perfect; I'm the last thing from it. Now that I'm a sophomore in college, I'll be honest in saying that I've been tempted quite a few times. But God has been with me every time.
Denise, I try not to let it define me. Ask anyone about me, and they'd say things like "musician", "writer", "always smiling", or "carefree". I know, because I've been told that exact statement. To them, they'd never know. But on the inside, because of the constant conflict, it's really always at the front of my mind. I can't help hating myself when I grew up in the kind of household that I did. I read in a earlier post, Carla I think posted, about having a TRUE experience with God to overcome promiscuity and alcohol. I admire you for that, Carla. But what I'm going through cannot be quitted. I'm sure that the road was long and difficult. But it is something you can overcome. This isn't something I chose to do, and then later had to abstain from. And I have had a pretty hard life, I'm just not putting it all on here for the whole world to read.
I apologize for the length of this post. I know it's long, but I hope it helps with some sort of understanding to a parent here that not everyone is the same, and even if your child does not always confide in you about this battle, they still might be trying to do the right thing.
Denise - posted on 05/31/2012
This is from Denise....A Mom who has a daughter who has uttered some of the same words that you have said here...about feeeling "different" even at a young age. What I said to you in my previous post....about bringing it (your feelings) to your Mom (or dad)...is exactly what I asked her...when she came out to us last summer...."Why didn't you just come to us?"
And although she never really answered that question....I guess she didn't because she knew it was wrong and didn't know how we would receive it and be accepting of her. Maybe she didn't even realize (nor would we have) that "talking & counselling" may have helped her to "deal" with these feelings. My daughter is 25 now...and in her 4th year of Medical School...so to be truthful...back when she was a teen...Homosexuality didn't seem to be so openly flaunted ...as it is now on so many TV shows & in the news. The common person didn't seem to have to deal with it on a daily basis....or have it "in front of their face" as they do now a days. So maybe....WE would have been caught off guard...and not known how to help her. I do know....whether then (as a teen)...or now (as a young adult)...that WE DO LOVE HER. We are concerned for her welfare now...here on this earth...as well as later...in the afterlife (in Heaven). When I read your response to me, Megan,....I cried. I respect you SO MUCH ( for responding to me) and the way that YOU are trying to handle these feelings that you have. You are trying to lead a Christian life...even though it is difficult and you feel torn. I wish MY daughter would try to be more like you in this way. For right now...she has given in to this attraction....even though she told us back last summer (when she came out) that "If she read and studied her Bible---and truly discovered that it was Wrong....that she would abstain"....she never did. I think those were the "words" that she thought that we wanted to "hear" and that would lessen the blow...and keep us hopeful. Just know this, Megan....YOU ARE NOT ALONE in your battle. #1...You have God with you...24/7...when you feel tempted....and #2...there are many, many people (like my daughter) who have these same feelings ...and know in their hearts..that it is wrong. But YOU ARE A LEADER in your course of action. YOU are STRONGER than you think. And you are WISE to seek some advice on a site like this. Everybody needs to talk to somebody...sometime (not only in prayer to God -- real people). Please don't hate yourself. And please don't let yourself feel like a "victim" of society because most people are not accepting of homosexuality. Being a victim is so PASSIVE....be a "do-er"...and use your talents in a positive way. You are not "defined" by your sexuality alone....you are a "whole", caring, enterprising individual. Find something that interests you....and get involved with that...in a positive way. Something that you can feel GOOD about. I do realize, from reading so many materials on same sex attraction...that the feelings never really go away...and I am not trying to say that you can "change" from being "gay" into being heterosexual. But I am saying....don't make your sexuality the main focus of your life. I would hope that someday my daughter would listen to these same words. I am sorry this is long...but I "feel" for you Megan. I actually just found this site a few weeks ago myself....and it seems that you are new to it yourself too.....Maybe we were meant to share our comments with eachother. God Bless you today and everyday !
Megan - posted on 05/30/2012
I appreciate the prayers.
Yes, Denise, I knew at four. There was a girl at my church....and yes, I knew it was wrong. Even at four, I knew that I was different, and my parents, like I said, were/are very vocal about their disapproval.
I've never acted on it, and I never plan to. The only thing I need in my life is God, not somebody else to make me happy. And I know that as long as He is with me, I can make it on my own. Yes, Carla, I am a devout Christian. I don't know how to make that any clearer. I don't expect you to believe me. You don't even know me. And you don't have to believe that being gay is something a person can be born with. But I'm telling you that I obviously didn't choose this. Why would I choose something that could get me sent to Hell without a fair chance? And I knew when I was so young.
I never said that any of you hated gays/lesbians/bisexuals, but your disdain is very obvious. I've been attacked before by classmates because a friend/friends I had told let it slip. Bullying isn't fun. And when subtle bullying comes from the very place where that person lives, it makes it even worse. I'm not saying you're bullies. But please keep in mind what your child might be going through.
Angela - posted on 05/30/2012
Hi again everyone! Carla, I accept your explanation and I know the 2 of us are at variance on this issue. I feel very protective of the gay community and their families for the anguish and heartache they go through. So many gay teenagers commit suicide and I'd hate to think that my attitude or indeed anyone's negative viewpoint on their situation added to their guilt and confusion. People are precious!
There are gay Christians who, in order to feel comfortable with their own consciences and the writings in the Scriptures, avoid sexual intimacy, emotional bonding and (of course) having a partner. They do not deny that they're gay, and they still actively campaign for gay rights along with other gay people as well as not criticising or judging those who aren't as strong in their religious convictions. Some countries have the death penalty for homosexuals and this is very sad - weblink below describes how Uganda prepared to make this "Law" part of their statute. This Law already exists in several Middle Eastern (Arab) countries.
My prayers, like yours, are with Megan, Denise and anyone else who is gay or is a family member of a gay person who needs comfort in these difficult circumstances.
Hope this helps.
Carla - posted on 05/30/2012
@Angela--sin is abhorrent to me. Why? Because, no matter what our personal opinion is, we have been told very plainly it is against God's nature. I don't have the advantage of your higher education, so I am unaware of the sexual behavior of the animal kingdom, but I DO know animals do not have souls. Humans do.
My heart aches for Megan. I understand the pain of depression, hurt and anger. I pray for her, as I do for each and every woman that posts here. I pray God's mercy for her, and peace for her heart.
You and I both have differing opinions, and we have struggled over these since day 1. What we should be praying for is clarity of the Spirit, so we can be confident in our walk. All I can do is go by what is told us in the Bible, in the NT, to guide our Christian walk. I strive earnestly to read God's Word, to understand, through the Spirit, His Message, and to give the women on COM the best Godly advice I have been given. I think that is all we can do.
Denise - posted on 05/29/2012
This is in response to Megan. Megan, I feel very sorry for you that for the last 16 years .....since the age of 4...that you have felt that you hated your existance. As a Mom...I know it would hurt your Mother very much if she knew that you have felt that way. And I know that she would be extremely disappointed that you did not come to her for help ( talking, counselling or something). I can hardly believe that at age 4....a person could even detect that "they are different in a sexual way". And if you did feel differently from that age....I don't even think that it would be something that you would realize was "wrong" and that you would not have talked to your mother (or father) about "feeling different" in some way. Most kids feel, especially at that age, that Moms or Dads can help them 'fix' whatever is wrong. I feel that you could have talked about your feelings with someone. Also....if you have not revealed yourself as gay (or bisexual) to anyone....then the hatred you feel towards yourself is not from any outside persecution from family members...but comes from within. You are being "hard" on yourself. And I think that the reason for this is that.... #1 you say you are a devout Christian....and #2 that you really do feel that homosexuality is a sin (you have said so in your letter). I think these circumstances are causing a "conflict" inside of you. I believe that this is exactly what my daughter...who came out to us last summer ...is feeling too. She too was raised a Christian...and taught that the Bible talks about homosexuality as being a sin....yet she is involved in this lifestyle (yes, that word again Angela) at this very moment. I believe that she has a "conflict" brewing in her also. I believe that while she is "going through the motions" with her "friend" that she knows deep down inside that what she is doing IS wrong according to God's word. And...someday...it is this conflict...this feeling inside of knowing what is truly right
and wrong...that will bring her back to God's way....and make her leave that lifestyle. Yes, she may still always have same sex attraction....as you do also....but someday may make herself manage "acting on those impulses" so that she can lead a Christian life. And....I do take exception to a person saying that all sins are equal...I do not believe that they are. Telling a lie....and taking a life (murder) ARE NOT EQUAL....!!! I do understand that you would not have taken the time to write on this blog if you were not searching for something Megan. Please understand that I myself (and most of the others who write here) do not hate anyone who IS or thinks they may be gay. And we don't know what it is like...not having walked in your shoes. I dislike the sin...not the sinner. And, while I understand that God is the final judge, I do believe that while on this earth our guide to a Christian life is the Bible and what it has to say about such acts as homosexuality. If a person wants to inherit the kingdom of God...the road may not be an easy one....but trying to follow God's word is the safest way to get there. Sure...we all fall short in our daily lives...and for that we can ask forgiveness through prayer. God is always available to hear one's plea. God knows you...Megan. He knows this conflict in your heart. He loves you. Talk with him....ask him to help you to deal with these feelings...and if necessary to lead you to the right path to get help....to feel positive about yourself. No one (especially a person only 20 years old) should go through life hating themselves and /or their lives. I am sure you have so much to offer the world with your talents. I hope you do not mind...but I will add you to my prayers from now on...praying that you will find a peace within you. God Bless you Megan.
Angela - posted on 05/29/2012
Carla, when you say "I do NOT hate gays. I love them. I HATE what they do" - can you please explain what it is they do that is so abhorrent to you?
a) being sexually intimate with someone of their own gender?
b) raising money and awareness for gay charities?
c) lobbying Parliament / Congress for gay rights?
d) taking part in Gay Pride festivals and demonstrations
e) "coming out" and declaring their sexuality to their loved ones and their community?
f) or, in the case of (usually very few) gay people, is it where they hide their sexuality and marry a heterosexual person of the opposite gender?
From the above list it's only the last one that I especially dislike.
There are several examples of homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom. Correct me if I'm wrong but animals don't have free will in the same way that humans do - so I would assume this is "natural" to them.
I would certainly agree that it's always best to reserve hate for the actual sin but love the sinner.
I also very strenuously disapprove of homosexuals who have multiple partners - just as I strenuously disapprove of the same behaviour in heterosexuals.
You might feel I'm sinful in defending the gay community who live openly gay lives - and perhaps I am, but I'm of the opinion it's possible to be so heavenly-minded that one is no earthly use. I've known people like that!
Carla - posted on 05/29/2012
Megan, you are absolutely correct when you say sin is sin in God's eyes. But, if you read my response of 5/21/12, Jesus said 'go and sin no more'.
We have had this conversation numerous times, and there are those out there that hold to their opinions, as I hold to mine. I can not believe a loving God, Whom we say we serve, would deliberately 'make' us sinners from the womb! God tells us homosexuality is a sin, so He lets us be born that way? Sorry, it doesn't compute the the Image of God I hold.
You say you are a devout Christian, but have you honestly and truly had an experience and formed a relationship with Jesus? Let me tell you a little bit about myself:
I was a skinny, awkward, shy child--at 15 I was 4'10" and 70 pounds. The boys would walk by me in the hall and say 'flat' and laugh. Self esteem? Had none! Mom and Dad had a horrible marriage, Mom screamed and cried constantly. At 15 an older guy wanted to date me, so I jumped at the chance! Now why would he want a flat, skinny 14" shorter than him girl? He could manipulate me, that's why. Anyway, I got pregnant at 15, got married, and he immediately started screwing around on me. He had an attack of conscience and told me about it when I was 6 mos pregnant with our second child, I was 17 then. Something snapped inside me and I started messin' around with every guy I could find. We had been raised in church, I even had been Spirit filled--but my mind snapped. By 21, I was a functioning alcoholic. I had several experiences with the Lord, but not a TRUE experience, do you know what I mean? I was ruled by my past, and couldn't get out of it. At 21 I was divorced, with a 6 and 4 y/o, and immediately married again. But the promiscuity and alcohol continued. Our marriage was a mess and continued that way until, at age 50, my husband left me for my best girlfriend, our oldest daughter disowned me (I ended up in a mental ward), I lost my job because of severe health issues--in short, my life was in the toilet. But guess what? God started dealing with me, and I had a true repentance and renewal of my heart and mind. My life COULD change, I COULD stop drinking, I COULD stop seducing men to prove to my ex (whom I haven't seen in over 40 years, by the way) that other men could find me attractive, and on and on.
And finally, I do NOT hate gays. I love them. I HATE what they do, but I love them, hoping the love of Jesus will shine through me, and they will feel the change I felt. I hate murdering, but I love the murderer. Go and sin no more. This is Jesus' message, and there IS a better way.
God bless, honey
Angela - posted on 05/29/2012
Thank you Megan, for your honest and frank post.
I'm straight but have, in several threads on here, tried to say many of the things you've said. Over and over again people are using words like "lifestyle" and "choice" and making statements saying that people simply aren't born gay. If they're straight, how do they know?
I am straight and didn't "choose" to be straight, I just find that I am straight. So how is anyone "choosing" to be gay? I don't believe ANYONE chooses their sexuality.
And as someone who is heterosexual, legally married to a Christian man I love dearly - who also loves me dearly - it's far too easy to be critical of gay people. As far as forming a relationship with a partner goes, I'm very lucky. I've apparently ticked all the "correct" boxes for Christian approval. I'm straight and female, I'm in a relationship with a man who is straight, we're both Christians (therefore "equally yoked"), we're happy and fulfilled with each other and we're legally married. In my own estimation, it would be the height of arrogance to start pointing the finger at anyone else whose relationship doesn't tick the boxes when my own circumstances are so fortunate. It's like gloating instead of counting one's blessings.
A person's sexuality, at the end of the day, is only one small facet of the whole person.
A few who have posted to this thread have said that living the life of a gay person is a sin that's no better or worse than any other kind of sin. There are a great many gay people who haven't "come out" - simply because they're not in a relationship - negative reactions from others do not seem worth instigating when there is no partner. Therefore, secrecy seems worth preserving - at least for a while longer.
Some have said it is a sin no better or worse than heterosexuals who live together in a relationship without being legally married. Fair enough. Except the occasional thread I see from parents lamenting their son or daughter's de facto relationship never seems half as anguished as those who speak of their child being gay.
My friend's son came out as gay, 2 or 3 years back. My friend has always shown prejudice and discrimination against gay people - especially gay men. He hated homosexuals. Lesbians, on the other hand, were figures of derision and ridicule in his eyes. He changed his tune when it was his own child that said he was gay. He's been supportive to his son - who at this time is not in a relationship and does not have a partner. He is more understanding and less hateful and critical. He is proud that his son is gainfully employed and works hard for his living. Neither father nor son are Christians.
It's all food for thought.
Megan - posted on 05/29/2012
I stumbled upon this website while trying to find some way to help a friend of mine deal with her insanely ridiculous mother about this friend's sexual orientation. I began to read the first page of replies and was horrified, for lack of a better word, and what some of them said.
I am 20 years old, a devout Christian, and I am in love with woman who I used to know. For the past 16 years, I have hated every moment of my existence trying to figure out why I was chosen to be like this. I can't tell a single person in my family because of how outspoken they all are about homosexuality. Through some kind of miracle, I was able to fight myself into being bisexual, but it took years. I am still so depressed that suicide is a daily thought, but I know that if I were to leave my mother without a real reason, she would be devastated. So, I continue to loathe my existence in silence.
I cannot believe what I have read here from other mothers. It made me hate myself even more. You cannot imagine what your child is going through. You can't. Not until you've been there. You might think you can imagine how hard it is, but you've got no clue. I do believe it's a sin, but I also know that to God, all sins are equal. There are none greater than others because sinning is sinning, no matter what form. But do you honestly think that what you've said on here is helping your child? That constant knowledge, that barrier that says "You're not wholly welcome in my life"?
You're going to lose your child forever if you continue with that attitude. It's not your place to judge, it's God's. Shouldn't your child's happiness be as important to you? If you run them into the ground with your prejudice, they might end up hating themselves just like I do. Do you want them to be considering suicide because you won't even try to understand them? I wouldn't. I'd wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing that a child hates his/her life so much that she had to take it because his/her family couldn't leave the judging to God.
I didn't come here to call anyone out. I'm too ashamed of myself to do that directly. I'm not standing up for myself, but there's a difference between not accepting and down right hating this "lifestyle". I do accept it. Do I believe it's a sin? Yes. But I also believe that a person cannot control something he/she was born with. Not this. Straight people can't willfully change their orientation, what makes you think that homosexuals can do it?
Carla - posted on 05/22/2012
Good thing you live in another country, Angela, I would run you over ;) Take heart, God is still working with me!
Let's remember to pray for each other--we don't know what each is going through.
Angela - posted on 05/21/2012
He has His hands full with me too! LOL!! I also drive other motorists on the road crazy - since I'm too slow & cautious!
I liked this which you posted (QUOTE):
"Let's pray for our neighbors, whoever or whatever they are. Our secret sins may be a whole lot worse than what their obvious sins are."
I also pray for people in their sufferings and challenges - we don't know the hardships of others till we've walked a mile in their shoes. But I constantly fight with myself for being judgemental - I can only ever consider something from my own point of view. Quite difficult to do otherwise when we all have different strengths and weaknesses!
Carla - posted on 05/21/2012
Yes, Angela, I, too, believe Jesus would be sitting with the people of our neighborhood, our city, our world. But His driving theme was 'there's Something better'. He did not condemn the woman caught in adultery, but He DID tell her, 'go and sin no more'. One day He had a crowd around Him, of all different peoples, and they asked Him, one by one--the tax collector said 'and what should I do?' And He told him 'don't take any more tax than is needed' (don't extort the people)--the soldier asked Him 'and what should I do?' and He said 'don't bully the people'--rule with kindness'. Each person, according to what their person 'sin' was, He said change. To the drunkard He says 'either drink a little or not at all'. To the murderer, He says 'be kind, treat people with respect, get rid of the anger/envy, whatever drives you to kill, stop!' Now, to me, He had quite a bit to say, cuz I was a mess ;) In particular, mine is driving. I get behind the wheel and turn into this raving lunatic! So what does He do? Put every Sunday driver in Michigan in front of me;) I am learning--I haven't flipped anyone off in ages ;) But also, there was the alcohol (to kill the pain of the past), the adultery, the vanity, etc. He's had His hands full with me, I tell you!
Let's pray for our neighbors, whoever or whatever they are. Our secret sins may be a whole lot worse than what their obvious sins are. May God reveal our true selves, so we may be transformed into the likeness of His dear Son.
God bless, all.
Angela - posted on 05/21/2012
Let’s try & remember the following points about gay people …..
a) They work and pay their taxes
b) They care about their communities and the environment
c) They are loyal and defend one another when someone gets targeted with hate crime
d) They’re suffering the stigma of “being different” but still getting on with life as best as they can
e) Many of them love the Lord and profess to be Christians. Some actually avoid physical relationships because of this as it doesn’t sit easy with them.
f) When they form relationships, for most of them it’s NOT about lust, sex and multiple partners – otherwise they wouldn’t be campaigning so hard for same sex marriage! They know marriage is about commitment and love.
g) There may well be people in your own neighbourhood that you like and respect as individuals who are actually gay and you have no idea because they’ve not “come out”.
h) The fact they have same sex attraction doesn’t mean they’re less intelligent, sensitive, creative or honest than anyone else.
Remember in the New Testament, we’re told of Jesus mixing with tax collectors, thieves, sinners etc …
I often think if His earthly ministry was in modern times, He’d be eating, drinking and sharing conversations with gay people and others marginalised by mainstream society.
My prayers are offered for gay people and their families.
Denise - posted on 05/20/2012
Thank you Angela for your comments as well. This "Circle of Moms" site has been helpful to me...letting me know that I am not alone in my situation. And letting me "vent" a little...and trying to be honest about my feelings right now. And while we all may not feel the same about this type of situation...we are here to share our comments in hopes that someone who is involved in something like this can get some insite and encouragement. Let's face it....no one would probably be on a site for "Mothers of Gay Children" if we were not in some way affected by it (child of our own, relative, maybe ourselves gay, etc). And in any and all instances, when we may have feelings of "helplessness & hopelessness" (which I feel sometimes) I try to remember and say to myself...while this may seem insurmountable & impossible to you...."All things are possible with God". Sometimes I find myself repeating this same thing to myself several times a week.....when my faith needs a boost. But ....I believe it...in my heart...I do.
Denise - posted on 05/20/2012
No, Carla, I did not at all get the impression that you disliked gay people. But many gay individuals will readily say "that" about anyone who questions their "lifestyle (and yes, it's "that" word "lifestyle" again)...."That we hate them!" They do not seem to realize that a person can actually have a love for a person....but hate what that person "is doing". Actually, when I read your comment...*I thought...Hey, here is a person who seems to think (on this subject) like me....about if gays are "born that way"....and that if that spirit -- that hold -- can be broken. I, too, believe that it can. And that is what I "hope" for with my daughter. I am sorry for your relationship with your daughter (or lack of one) right now. You would think that if she "has children" of her own...that ALL that you did for her would be remembered...and she would "appreciate" you MORE. Sometimes I think our kids think that they just "hatched" as young adults....just the way that they are now....no nurturing or upbringing to develop them into the "thinking beings that they are". I will pray for your situation from my heart....I feel your hurt. Thank you for all your comments, prayers, encouragement of "hope", etc.
Angela - posted on 05/20/2012
Carla, I honestly don't think ANY of us who post on here hate gay people.
I only hate to see any person marginalised because they're "different". This includes people of different ethnicities, disabled people, old people, people who don't subscribe to the consumerist society in which we live, mentally ill people, unattached people, fat people, former criminals and those that are classic "victims" in life's rich tapestry - which so often becomes life's lottery.
It must be great to be "mainstream" but some people just aren't that way! Don't feel they should be targeted because they are different. And I DO hate bullies.
Hope is very important to people. We must never attempt to take away any person's hope.
Carla - posted on 05/20/2012
Denise, if I gave you the impression I hate gays, I sincerely apologize--nothing could be farther from the truth. My sil, after her divorce from my brother, went into the gay lifestyle. After her horrendous marriage to my brother, I even UNDERSTAND it! She has had several partners, and I have treated each with respect and dignity. Her daughter has recently gotten saved, and is taking her mother AND her ex-partner to church with her. Her mother was raised in the church, but it was the same dysfunctional place we came out of, so the teachings were askew. But both women are enjoying the daughter's church, and eagerly attend every time the doors are open. God changes lives!
In God we have hope, Denise. Hope was explained to me as this: it is when you step out on nothing, and it holds you up. Hebrews says faith is the tangible evidence of what you are praying for. So if you have hope, THAT is your proof that what you have asked for will come to pass. This does NOT mean we can pray for anything, believe we get it, and it's ours. We got into that name-it-and-claim-it stuff years back and it almost destroyed us. Our prayers are to be in line with the Will of the Father in order to be legitimized. And the salvation of your child definitely falls into that category. Also, Proverbs says 'train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart.' I pray this over my way-ward daughter that we have not seen, nor our grandbabies, since 2000. She IS old (45), but obviously she isn't 'old' enough. I have my tangible evidence that she will return to both God and us.
God bless, darling. I know this is heart-breaking for you. I know you cry buckets. But our God is bigger than the gay spirit that has your child bound.
Angela - posted on 05/20/2012
I'm pleased to learn that New Hope Ministries have been so helpful to you - and so HONEST with you as well.
You're right when you say that I have no idea what it's like to have a child/other family member that is gay, I don't. Nor do I know what it is like to be gay myself.
The comments I have made are only my opinion (although it's an opinion I feel passionately about).
I will pray for your peace of mind concerning your daughter.
Denise - posted on 05/19/2012
I have read the same passages in Romans (and elsewhere) that condem homosexuality. And I, too, do not believe that a person is "born that way". But the fact remains that many, many people do not agree with this Christian way of thinking. And let me be very clear here....as a Christian...I never "hate" the person who is gay....but I just can not support the actions of a homosexual...and that is what I disagree with. When my daughter first "came out" to us back in August (2011)...I spent hours and hours on the computer trying to look up stuff on this subject. I came across a site for New Hope Ministries in California. Feeling desparate....I actually called a number that was on their website. I was connected with the Director of New Hope....who was a former gay man. He could probably hear the sadness and desparation in my voice as I asked several questions of him. He talked very nicely & comforting to me. His story was that he had been in gay relationships all during his young life...but had "turned his life over to God" about 12 years ago and started counseling other people who also had mixed feelings about being gay. Most wanted to believe and follow God and live accordnig to God's will & the Bible. With counseling & support from other ex-gays, family & friends they were trying to control their same-sex attraction feelings. He made it clear that a lot of the time a person may never really "get over" these feelings for the same sex...but that since they have support ...these feelings can be "channeled" elsewhere or controlled. And although the gentleman at New Hope was understanding...and a "shoulder to cry on"...he was candid in saying that my daughter's situation was rather "new" to her & us....and that we could expect the situation to get "worse" (maybe a lot worse) before it got better (over time). And he also said....something along the lines of "you can lead a horse to water....but you can not make him drink".... that we could present all the information, evidence, Biblical teachings, etc. to our daughter...showing her all the different aspects of turning her life around...BUT UNTIL SHE WAS READY....and had the mindset to change (give her life over to God) ....no amount of literature or counseling was going to be accepted by her. And in the 8 months since I talked to that man....I can say that everything he said is true. Our situation has gotten worse...hostility...less communication, etc......and until my daughter is "ready"....nothing seems to penetrate that armour she has built up around her. It's funny...but everynight when I go to bed "her" name is the last thing on my lips whenr I say my prayers & close my eyes.......and everyday when I wake up...I think to myself...that maybe we are one day closer to when she will come back to us (and God). And don't think to yourself...that "This woman needs to get a life"....and is obsessed ! Noooo.....not obsessed...but most moms will tell you that their children "are" their lives...no matter how old they are. And even though I manage a household....taking care of a husband and another daughter....I feel like I am like the Shepherd who has 99 of his sheep....but is concerned for that "one" that is lost. My daughter is always on my mind...no matter what else I am involved in doing. Sorry this is rather long....but I just hope maybe some other "desparate" mom will find this site (like I did)...and maybe something said here could help them. Sometimes I do realize that what I say here may not be the most "politically correct" to say on this subject...but what I say does represent the feelings of one mom in this "situation"....me.
Carla - posted on 05/19/2012
The UK is very much more liberal than America, at least in the world of Christiandom. Paul talks about homosexuality in the first chapter of Romans, which explains very plainly how it came to be. It is a very strong, determined spirit, but it CAN be broken. No, homosexuality is NOT something you are born with, and yes, it can be changed.
But we will never agree on this subject, so let's try to be kind to each other. Keri is suffering, or at least was 2 1/2 years ago when this was originally written.
God bless, all
Denise - posted on 05/18/2012
As you have stated previously in one of your posts....It is VERY, VERY DIFFERENT to realize that a son or daughter feels that they are homosexual...rather that just having a friend or acquaintance who is. It affects EVERYONE in the family....24/7....365 days a year....for a lifetime. Whereas having just a friend or acquaintance who is living that life....really only affects you when you are with that person or interact with them off and on. Believe me....this is not an "easy" situation for any of us who have been touched in this way. I always thought that our family (us parents & 2 daughters) would just be leading the "normal" American family lives....raise our kids...get them through college...first jobs...dating...marriage....grandchildren, etc. And at that...just a normal American family encounters many obstacles along the way in this "roller coaster of life" ( sickness, layoffs, miscarriages, job transfers, etc.) that cause much stress and requires a lot of faith to get through. Now....I find myself JUST LONGING for that NORMAL life "even with" all the stresses that may crop up. Because now...our lives are anything but NORMAL....and our future is UNCLEAR. And I say "our" because like I said in my first sentence....unless a person has a son or daughter who is gay.....they really...really can NOT understand how much it DOES affect EVERY family member. I am sorry if this comes off as sounding blunt...but those are my feelings. Before this situation really affected our family I never knew what an impact it could have.
Angela - posted on 05/18/2012
Oh dear! We're still using the word "lifestyle" on here! Very frowned-upon!
It's not really a question of accepting a lifestyle, it's a matter of accepting someone's sexuality. It is NEVER chosen. And generally it can't be altered. Be honest, how many of you that are heterosexual "chose" your own sexuality - I know I didn't. It was just the way I was.
Gay people don't "come out" because they've suddenly decided to be gay. They've often battled with it for years. They put these feelings on the back-burner because they had other stuff to be dealing with in their lives, getting an education, growing up, developing skills, finding employment etc .... The only "choice" they have is whether to decide if they'll simply ignore their instincts and be a non-sexual human being and get on with life without forming any one-to-one relationships with anyone. Or some might even form a relationship with someone of the opposite sex to disguise the person they really are - that's a pretty disastrous action to take and unfair to the other person!
It's quite fair and reasonable to be sad about a loved one turning out to be gay. I would be sad because of the prejudice these people face in our so-called "enlightened" society. But to refuse to accept their sexuality will give them further pain.
Denise - posted on 05/17/2012
Thank you Stella for all of your input. likewise....my gay daughter told her younger sister (by 2 years) that she thought she was gay. then she asked her sister to keep it a secret from us (and anyone else) all last summer. You can imagine the shock to my other daughter that her very, very close sibling was gay. And then having to bear this burden ALONE for 3 months until my gay daughter could come out to us. Although my 2 daughters were always very close...I guess the colege years took their toll on that closeness (since they went to different schoold in 2 different states). Sometimes their "time together" was very limited....and busy schedules even made communicating (even in this age of technology) often difficult. I wish it had been different. As a younger sister yourself...I know how hurt you must have felt....usually "big sisters" are put up on a pedistal...and serve as role models, somewhat. This is all fairly new to our family...but I imagine some of the hurt never really goes away. I will, in turn, pray for your family as well.
Lakota - posted on 05/17/2012
I will pray for you. The only reason I commented was because my older sister is gay. I was the first one in the family she told. My mom is very embarrassed by her and my dad is emotionally distant. So, I see it from the side as a sibling. It has hurt her very much. It has also hurt my parents. My sister is angry because we don't accept her lifestyle. I can see both sides. I have a child and it would be heart breaking. God bless you all.
Denise - posted on 05/16/2012
We do....and have told her this very thing...that we will always love her...and support her and encourage her in her work (as a doctor). But even she questioned homosexuality and what the Bible has to say about it. The day she came out to us...she told us that she was concerned about what the Bible had to say on the subject....and she was still "looking into" it....AND "if" she discovered that God did not fully support this lifestyle....then she would seek counseling for a way to channel her feelings in a christian way. This sounded "promising" to us.....because we are aware of numerous passages that condem homosexuality in the Bible. I even purchased a new Bible (English Standard version) so that the text would be clearer & easier to understand (less of thee, thou, etc.). That was months ago....and although I did remind her of what she said that day....I don't think she was as sincere as she seemed to indicate to us. Or maybe she is just still 'caught up" in this "fascination" of this new "different" lifestyle. We remain hopeful however...that her upbringing will come through and she will take what the Bible has to say more to heart. But as far as "love" goes....it always has been there...and still is.
Denise - posted on 05/16/2012
The main reason that I was hesitant to tell anyone else other than our family of 4 (me, my husband, another daughter, and my daughter who came out) was exactly what you thought. I figured that the more people who knew...the more chances that something would get back to my parents. i was protecting them. At 80 years old...something of this nature can be shocking...and the stress & heartache could "kill them' literally. and they are important to me too. Also...believe it or not...my daughter who came out...asked us the day she did...NOT to tell anyone else. kind of like she was a little embarassed herself...and/or maybe wasn't quite sure of her decision for this lifestyle herself. So...it was also to fulfill her wishes also. And....I can't lie and say that this situation makes me feel proud. Notice that I did not say.. that I was not proud of my daughter....but of the way she is "acting out" on her feelings. Like you mentioned....it is a lot easier to give an opinion looking at a situation from afar. then it is when it is affecting a son or a daughter in your own family. When that is the case...it is heart-wrenching. Thankyou for you comments though. And....if you are a christian...please pray for us to be a close family once again....soon.
Lakota - posted on 05/16/2012
Denise, call your daughter and tell her how you feel and then love her no matter what. I am a Christian also. God wants us to love our children, hate the sin, love the sinner. I know that you don't agree with what your daughter is doing, but, there are obviously so many reason to be proud of your daughter. She is homosexual and no better or worse than your neighbor/friend who may be commiting adultery or stealing office supplies from work. Love your daughter.
Angela - posted on 05/12/2012
My response Denise, was actually aimed at Keri, who originated this thread.
Anyway, if you find any of my comments helpful, then I'm glad.
I don't have any gay relatives (but have several gay friends). I'm quite tolerant of their "culture" (for want of a better word - it's probably just as bad to say "culture" as it is to say "lifestyle"). I do appreciate the challenges and dilemmas faced are quite different if a family member is gay.
The most important thing is that your gay child came out to you and didn't hide their sexuality. That means she trusted you with sensitive information - this isn't easy for a gay person and many avoid acting on their sexuality for many years until their parents are dead - or they move far away from their hometown and "live a lie" when they go back home to visit family. I appreciate that you think knowledge of this could be harmful to your parents. You're understandably PROUD of your daughter for her achievements and obviously want to preserve their love, pride and and favourable impressions of her as an individual.
I think your daughter wanted to examine her sexuality to decide for herself if it was worthwhile. Discovering you're gay is never an easy ride - whether you "come out" OR repress the feelings. Telling you of her issues and possibly getting referred to Christian counselling etc .... wasn't going to "cure" her of being a lesbian. It would have introduced guilt and confusion. Possibly even having a heterosexual relationship with someone and/or marrying a person of the opposite sex in order to get approval. She sounds as though she wanted to work this thing out on her own without your input. If she's a doctor, then I would assume she's mature and focussed enough not to have to go running to parents with this or any other issues she may face.
We've had gay marriage in the UK for a few years now. I have gay friends and colleagues (including a male couple that foster children).
I hope you find some peace in this situation. Is the reason you've only shared this with your sister because you're worried about your parents finding out? Or are you very ashamed?
Denise - posted on 05/11/2012
I received notice that you had responded to my post of 5/1/12. In my original post....you can read that I am not the person who said that they were divorced. I did read an earlier post however that did say that. But I do accept your advice....and well wishes for "blessings". We all need blessings from God...everyday...to get through this type of situation.
Angela - posted on 05/11/2012
You say your child is living a gay "lifestyle" after divorce. I assume this was divorce from a person of the opposite sex?
The gay community absolutely abhor the use of the word "lifestyle" - and understandably so. They don't have a "lifestyle", they just live their lives! Your opening post would have sounded better if you'd said:
"I just found out a child of mine is living the life of a gay person after a divorce. I am in shock and wonder if anybody has any advice for me. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!"
I agree with most of what the others have said. But one thing I would suggest is to state how you feel to your child - that you're not happy with their apparent sexuality etc .... but say it in front of their partner as well. Don't cut out their partner. Be polite and say that you still love your child and you don't wish any ill on their partner. It's important to acknowledge that this person, your child's partner, exists. Pretending that the other person isn't part of your child's life or feeling that if you ignore them, they'll go away - isn't going to work. If anyone runs down someone you love, you will avoid that person. That's true whether it's your partner (either of the same gender OR the opposite gender) or if the person someone's running down/ignoring/refusing to acknowledge etc .... is a sibling, a friend or a parent! If someone hurts, ignores or criticises someone that you love, then you'll cling to them all the tighter. Adversity will make you closer!
I was in a toxic marriage for a few years. Had my parents NOT made it clear how much they hated my husband, I may have left him earlier! I could have avoided years of suffering!
On the other hand, if your child splits up with his/her same sex partner, don't get hopeful! This won't necessarily mean he/she has ceased to be gay, only that ONE relationship failed.
Wishing you and your family peace and blessings.
Denise - posted on 05/01/2012
This is in reply to Kim Hayes who posted 10/29/2009....and although her comment was posted several years ago (it is now May 2012) it could have been written by me. I too have a 24 yr. old daughter who just came out to us last summer. She was in her third year of Medical School at the time. She also was always a very, very "good' girl...always striving to be a high achiever...and following all the 'rules'. She was raised, as well, in a Christian household...and always instilled with values, high morals, and a true sense of what is right and wrong. When she revealed to us that she thought that she was gay...we thought that possibly with all the stress of med school that she had had some sort of emotional or psychological breakdown....and maybe "caved" to some subconscious feelings of same sex attraction. When I asked her "why, if she had some of these feelings...she did not come to me" and I would have helped her to deal with them (in a christian way) or get her the help to sort things out....she actually said that she did NOT come to me....because "She wanted to try it out- being gay"...and if she had told me...that I may not have "let her" try it. Obviously ! I would have tried to help her to not go down that path when help may have been available. She, instead, had gone onto a gay dating website and "connected" with a gay girl in the same city. She has been "dating" this girl for almost a year now. And while my husband & I have reinforced that we love her deeply...we have made it clear that this lifestyle is NOT something that the Bible or God approves of. Needless to say this has created a divide between her & us. In fact..sometimes I think that I don't even recognize my own child...her actions...her words...so hostile...so defensive. This situation has definitely brought out the worst in her...deceit...harsh language...no thoughtfulness for family...self centeredness...etc. All things that she never really did before this situation. Hence...our thinking of some sort of "breakdown". She calls infrequently...and our conversations are superficial...anything more pointed usually results in her being defensive and hostile. This "divide" makes me feel so empty...and I cry almost every night when I say my prayers...I can't help it. I recently told my sister & her husband so that my husband & I would have "an outlet" and some support. No other relatives know about this because I am afraid that if my elderly parents (who think so highly of my daughter) found out they would be heartbroken and this "shock" and it's stress could "kill them" (literally). It is hard for me to "give this up" to God...I am the kind of person who tries to be in control of most things. I pray for God's help to get through this time. And I pray that while my daughter may always have this same sex attraction that she will seek the help that others have - through Exodus Intl. or similar groups to try to live a Christian lifestyle. We have always been a close family....and I really miss the old fun loving, caring person she used to be. Sorry this is so long. But I found this site while on the computer...after having a rather "rough" day. Thanks for all the honest posts. And while I hate knowing that others are sad too...at least it is a small comfort knowing that we are not the only ones going through something like this.
Cheryl - posted on 02/02/2011
God does answer prayer, if you live to see it answered that is a gift. You don't need to accept the relationship as normal to love your child. You don't need to share your opposition to the gay lifestyle to be a good Christian parent. Your child probably knows your opposition. You don't have to entertain the significant other in your child's life to love your child. You don't have to give up what you believe to love them either. However, when you make a stand for righteousness it may (most likely) happen that your gay child will claim that by not accepting his or her gay relationship you reject your him or her (your child). It may happen that he or she will not listen to reason. It may happen that they will not want to see you for weeks or even years as they spend themselves as the prodigal son spent himself. There will be a cost to you for standing by your beliefs and by the word of God but remember God is real, He hears your prayers, he loves your child more than you do and he set up the rules. Familiarize yourself with scripture conerning these things, walk in God's way and trust the Holy Spirit to teach and to bless your child in the way that only He can. This will be hard but greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.
Rosa - posted on 01/28/2011
Thanks, I love my child and I pray every day for her. I know there are help somewhere, actually it was my older daughter who suggested this website. I don't talk very much about it. I appreciate your comment. God bless you.