How many christians voted democrat, and why?

Peg - posted on 06/01/2009 ( 68 moms have responded )

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I was wondering about the progressive movement and a lot of it doesn't add up to our christian morals a virtues. What do you think the democratic party stands for?How much have you lost since the democrats have taken over?

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Kathy - posted on 08/23/2009

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Quoting Alison:

I am shocked that all of you believe you have to be a republican to be a Christian! Let it be known that a bunch of us Christians here in Canada (and the rest of the world) think Obama is doing a great job. Seriously, folks. Do you really think you need to vote against gay marriage to be a good Christian?! Separation of church and state.. it's the only way to go!



With no disrespect to you, I don't think you know what you are talking about. First off...you would have to know American History to properly understand "Separation of Church and State". I'll try and give you a lesson on this subject. I know this is a little long, but if you take the time to read it, you will understand better. Most Democrats and Non-Christian politicians need to take this lesson as well. Before the American Revolution, the Separatists who would not compromise with the Church of England emigrated to New England (USA) to live in small colonial villages. They left England in order to find religious freedom! In the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution it is stated in:



"Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."



Countries have varying degrees of separation between government and religious institutions. While the United States is recognized as the first country to completely disestablish its government from any religion in its Constitution ratified in 1791, a number of other countries have since followed. Nevertheless, the degree of actual separation between government and religion or religious institutions varies widely. In some countries the two institutions remain heavily interconnected. There are new conflicts in the post-Communist world.



In the United States the "Separation of Church and State" is generally discussed as a political and legal principle derived from the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ." The concept of separation is commonly credited to the combination of the two clauses: the establishment clause, generally interpreted as preventing the government from establishing a national religion, providing tax money in support of religion, or otherwise favoring any single religion or religion generally; and the , ensuring that private religious practices are not restricted by the government. The effect of prohibiting direct connections between religious and governmental institutions while protecting private religious freedom and autonomy has been termed the "separation of church and state."



Getting back to the Separatists, their intentions were to keep the Government out of the Church, not keep the Church out of the Government! Separation of church and state" is a common metaphor that is well recognized. Equally well recognized is the metaphorical meaning of the church staying out of the state's business and the state staying out of the church's business. Because of the very common usage of the "separation of church and state phrase," most people incorrectly think the phrase is in the constitution. The phrase "wall of separation between the church and the state" was originally coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802. His purpose in this letter was to assuage the fears of the Danbury, Connecticut Baptists, and so he told them that this wall had been erected to protect them. The metaphor was used exclusively to keep the state out of the church's business, not to keep the church out of the state's business.

The constitution states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Both the free exercise clause and the establishment clause place restrictions on the government concerning laws they pass or interfering with religion. No restrictions are placed on religions except perhaps that a religious denomination cannot become the state religion.

However, currently the implied common meaning and the use of the metaphor is strictly for the church staying out of the state's business. The opposite meaning essentially cannot in be found in the media, the judiciary, or in public debate and is not any part of the agenda of the ACLU or the judiciary.

This, in conjunction with several other factors, makes the "separation of church and state" metaphor an icon for eliminating anything having to do with Christian theism, the religion of our heritage, in the public arena. One of these factors is the use of the metaphor in place of the actual words of the constitution in discourse and debate. This allows the true meaning of the words in the constitution to be effectively changed to the implied meaning of the metaphor and the effect of the "free exercise" clause to be obviated. Another factor facilitating the icon to censor all forms of Christian theism in the public arena is a complete misunderstanding of the "establishment" clause.



In addition to the "Separation of Church and State" metaphor misrepresenting the words of the establishment clause, the true meaning of the establishment clause is also misrepresented. The "establishment" clause states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." Before these words can be put in context and the true meaning of the clause can be correctly identified, we need to examine the word "religion" and put it in America's historical context at the time the constitution was framed. In addition, we need to examine the previous European historical background of the founders of our country to identify what specifically motivated them to place the "establishment" clause in the constitution.

To accomplish this, we need to add more specificity to the word "religion" to clarify both the American and European historical backgrounds and put the word "religion" in proper context. We need do delineate between doctrinal and denominational religion. We also need to understand that the doctrinal religion being discussed is Christian Theism, which is defined by a belief in the Bible. We know what specific Christian denominational religions are.



The "Separation of Church and State" metaphor blurs the distinction between a doctrinal religion and a denominational religion. This places the doctrinal religion we have embraced in the same basket as an organized denominational religion with potential to merge with the state. The documentary evidence of the doctrinal Christian religion origin of this nation is voluminous. The Supreme Court thoroughly studied this issue, and in 1892 gave what is known as the Trinity Decision. In that decision the Supreme Court declared, "this is a Christian nation." John Quincy Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was, it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." The founders were definitely Christian for the most part. At least 90 to 95 percentage of them were practicing, Trinitarian Christians. This and the additional supporting evidence below show conclusively that the concern that motivated the framers to include the establishment clause in the constitution was definitely not fear of the doctrinal religion of Christian Theism. It was understood that Christian Theism was the default state doctrinal religion. As opposed to being something to fear, it was something believed to be vital to the success of our government. Consequently, the framers feared a state denominational religion not a state doctrinal religion! Some additional evidences that indicate Christian Theism was the national doctrinal religion are listed below:



Emblazoned over the Speaker of the House in the US Capitol are the words "In God We Trust."

The Supreme Court building built in the 1930's has carvings of Moses and the Ten Commandments.

God is mentioned in stone all over Washington D.C., on its monuments and buildings.

As a nation, we have celebrated Christmas to commemorate the Savior's birth for centuries.

Oaths in courtrooms have invoked God from the beginning.

The founding fathers often quoted the Bible in their writings.

Every president that has given an inaugural address has mentioned God in that speech.

Prayers have been said at the swearing in of each president.

Each president was sworn in on the Bible, saying the words, "So help me God."

Our national anthem mentions God.

The liberty bell has a Bible verse engraved on it.

The original constitution of all 50 states mentions God.

Chaplains have been in the public payroll from the very beginning.

Our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence, mentions God four times.

The Bible was used as a textbook in the schools.

As indicated above, the "Separation of Church and State" metaphor blurs the distinction between a doctrinal religion and a denominational religion. The lack of this distinction automatically assigns the potential evil of the denominational religion to the doctrinal religion as explained below.

The pilgrims were ultimately forced to leave Europe and flee to the land we now know as America because of persecution and oppression. This persecution and oppression was a result of the Church of England, the Anglican Church, becoming the state church. It was an unholy alliance giving more power to both the church and the state to control the people.

The Anglican Church was a denominational church that persecuted religious nonconformists like the Puritans that just wanted to believe in the Bible and worship accordingly. As such they were not really a denomination. They were more of a doctrinal religion. In this case the denominational religion was the evil and the doctrinal religious group was the victim.

However, the denominational religion was not the only perpetrator of evil. The state was also a perpetrator. Neither states nor denominational religions are inherently evil. We are not always fearful of either a state or a denominational religion. It is the persecution and the oppression that are inherently evil. They can come from any organization that has power. However, the establishment clause was definitely added to the constitution to prevent a denominational religion from becoming the state religion not the doctrinal religion of Christian Theism.



The current implied meaning of the "Separation of Church and State" metaphor and its use is just the opposite of what was intended and what historical facts justify. Our framers feared a state denominational church based upon European history. The constitutional restrictions were targeted at our government to prevent it from making a denominational religion the state church. We actually embraced the Christian Theism doctrinal religion as the state religion. Now we are rejecting any expression or symbol of our doctrinal religion, which our framers embraced. We are treating the doctrinal religion of our heritage like a virus that must be expunged from the public square. We also have inverted the original intent of the "Separation of Church and State" metaphor. The oppression that the Christian Theism religion is now undergoing through the ACLU and activist judges is the same evil that the establishment clause in our constitution was intended to prevent. Our current state religion of humanism is using the full power of the government to oppress the nonconformists to its doctrine, which is exactly the opposite doctrine of Christian Theism.



In answering your question, " Do you really think you need to vote against gay marriage to be a good Christian?" Yes, I do! Don't include everyone in thinking that Obama is doing a good job. If you are thinking he is doing a good job, it is because you and the rest of the world probably think he is doing a good job because he is ruining the United States! He is ruining our way of life and freedom! I don't have a problem with him as a person. But as our commander and chief, I think NOT!



Anyone reading this, please know, this is my opinion. Mine and many others! Please respond whether you agree or not!



 

Lakota - posted on 11/29/2012

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"Looks like we're still a very long way off from promoting equality & tolerance and celebrating diversity.



Really Christian that is! "



Not to sound harsh, but, being Christian has nothing to do with tolerance. We make a choice to follow God's law or not. We are supposed to love our neighbor - despite what they have done. But, that doesn't mean we are to be tolerant of what they have done.

Alison - posted on 07/07/2009

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I don't know what media you are getting your information from, but my research on the subject shows that Obama's views are very much in line with my own.



http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-coun...



I think he is an honest Christian who likes to think things through on his own (with some guidance from select advisors), and who understands that not all issues are so clear cut. I don't think that abortion should be an option for a faithful Christian, but I think it is a must in our society. There are some Christians out there who think that any hormonal birth control is ungodly. Can you imagine if it were made illegal??? Where do you draw the line?



All in all, Obama impresses me as a person and I would be exstatic to have him leading my country!

Alison - posted on 06/29/2009

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I am shocked that all of you believe you have to be a republican to be a Christian! Let it be known that a bunch of us Christians here in Canada (and the rest of the world) think Obama is doing a great job. Seriously, folks. Do you really think you need to vote against gay marriage to be a good Christian?! Separation of church and state.. it's the only way to go!

Lakota - posted on 12/04/2012

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No problem at all, Angela. :)



I enjoy reading posts from people who have an opinion different than mine, but, that post was meant to be hateful. Sad some folks need to be that way.

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Angela - posted on 12/26/2012

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Thanks Carol, for pointing out that Democrat and Republican aren't the only 2 options for Americans! I'm British so probably not even qualified to join the discussion! LOL!!

Carol Louise - posted on 12/25/2012

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I did not vote democrate nor republican either as I voted for an independent person

Angela - posted on 12/04/2012

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One of the Moderators might have deleted that person's post, Lakota. Generally that type of person doesn't delete their post - they want to make a statement and make a point and then it's very unlikely that they'll delete their post!



Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick!

Lakota - posted on 12/03/2012

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Angela, it wasn't directed towards you. It was directed toward someone who wrote that anyone who believes the Bible is delusional, along with some other hateful things. Their response was directed towards me. They cowardly deleted their post. So, I understand why you thought it was for you.



As far as having a President that is gay...........well, that would be none of my business. Lord knows we have had a few presidents who commited adultery. A sin is a sin, is a sin.

Angela - posted on 12/02/2012

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@ Lakota Believes - hey, I'm not even American! And I'm certainly not angry at anything - what on earth makes you think I am? (I'm assuming your remark is directed at me?). American politics aren't something I get passionate about - British politics are boring enough!



Certainly not very charitable of you to say I had "internal ugliness".



I'm a Christian and whilst my own conscience doesn't trouble me about certain "sins" other people like to bleat on about so much (I'm more concerned about the value I give to other people as a friend, as a spouse, as a parent, as an employee than about pointing the finger at someone else's sins which don't affect me) - I just feel that if I don't commit those sins and I don't find it abhorrent that someone else commits those sins it's not worth losing sleep over. Objecting to their sins certainly isn't worth losing one's job over either!



OK, the Bible may say that a), b) & c) are sins. If they're sins I'm personally not committing as well as being "sins" that don't affect me in any way, then as far as I'm concerned I'm not going to point the finger of accusation at anyone who does indulge in that particular form of "sinning".



Liar, cheats, thieves and murderers of course, I would object to - even then, I don't have the right to judge them unless their sins affect me personally.



What would you do if your President was a gay man - or a gay woman? Because believe me, at some future point that day will come!



And I've certainly not accused anyone of being delusional.



Apologies if I've jumped the gun and the comments in your post weren't aimed at me.

Lakota - posted on 11/30/2012

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Sorry you feel that way. Honestly, I would rather be delusional than have the anger issues you obviously have. That is your view and opinion. But, maybe you could try getting your point across without so much internal ugliness.

Angela - posted on 11/27/2012

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I am not gay but when I read comments like "gay lifestyle is a sin" I am very concerned. If someone happens to be gay, it's NOT a choice. And it certainly isn't a "lifestyle". If there was a "choice" about sexuality, wouldn't everyone simply "choose" to be straight? It's certainly the easier route!



Looks like we're still a very long way off from promoting equality & tolerance and celebrating diversity.



Really Christian that is!



Political affiliation IS a choice, of course.



And any political party is about so much more than where they stand on gay issues, legal abortion, guns etc ....

Elvira - posted on 11/16/2012

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You are right. Every sin is evil in God's eyes. From a human point of view it's worse than lying, hating, jealousy and and so forth.Obama supporting abortion is his choice and so as every woman out there. Obama did not make the final decision for all those women out there to kill their babies. Final say is always the individual that takes the action in doing so. God will judge her for murdering the baby not us. Every leader is chosen by God. Obama is not the enemy. Sin is, the devil is....Romney belongs to mormon church and his church has their own bible. Read Deuteronomy 4:2 ....about not adding or subtracting God 's word; Also mormoms didn't really have black people in their church until lately...mormons also do death baptism...which my friends who are mormons cant explain the necessity of it....I could go on my friend.Now that election is over...Dont look to Romney and Obama, look to Jesus, who is our King and Savior! God Bless You!

Danielle - posted on 11/16/2012

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The Bible says not to judge non believers and were to hold are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ accountable. Obama was the only state senator in Chicago that didn't support the "Born Alive" bill which protects a baby who survives a failed abortion attempt. In his opinion a women can still kill her baby even after its outside the womb. If thats not evil I don't know what is.

Elvira - posted on 10/31/2012

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I'm a born again christian and a democrat. I believe if you point a finger at me for being an "uneducated" christian democrat such as I, you are a sinner. God is the greatest judge,and who are you to judge me.On issues on abortion and gay...I truly believe that when God put us in this world he gave us a choice to either live in darkness or light. The president did not tell you to be gay or have an abortion....it is by our own choice. Just like our every day living, of choosing to lie, cheat jealousy,hate or what not....A sin is a sin in God's eyes! Gay and killing babies are still sin in God's eyes and so is judging Christians for choosing what party to vote. These two issues are still sin to God they are not called big sins. A sin as a sin!

I'm sick of self righteous Christians...most Kings in the bible fall short and sinned while governing the people. The president Obama will and Romney will disappoint you over and over again somehow....because to err is human and only God is perfect!

Last but not the least, God has planned out everything to happen the way it is. Our christian duty is to pray for leader be it democrat or republican! Pastors need to preach to pray for our leaders not what party to vote in their churches......

To conclude"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".....

Kathy - posted on 08/23/2009

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I grew up in a family of Democrats. When I was old enough to understand politics, I still stuck with the Democratic party. During Bill Clinton's 1st term being President, I began being very involved in church. I was saved when I was a child. I recommitted at that time. Before the end of Bill's 1st term, I decided I could no longer stick with my Christian beliefs and support Democrats any longer! I changed to the Republican party and have never looked back or regretted my dicision. I don't see how a person can be a Christian and a Democrat at the same time. I'd like to know the answer to that as well...

Dee - posted on 08/22/2009

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Quoting Leslie:

wow this is amazing, the most sad thing is that even christians are becoming so accustomed and desensitized to topics such as gay marriage, abortion, etc. That they have convinced themselves that there is a seperation between their faith and their political views. I vote christian! :) Because we have taken God out of this country is why we are where we are. I encourage all of you to read your bible, study what God tells us about these things. Don't take someones word for it. Someone else isn't getting you to heaven.



Leslie is on to something... Read and study the bible yourself and then pray about what you read and let the Holy Spirit lead you to your understanding...



I to do not understand how a Christian can believe in President Obama when his views are against the Commandments of the Bible...



The Ten Commandments:



Honor you father and mother.... God states right there the definition of marriage!



Gay lifestyle is a sin. You can be gay and still go to heaven. Being gay is just like all other sins. A sin is a sin God sees them all the same. But we must also confess our sins.

Katie - posted on 08/22/2009

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Quoting Genie:



Quoting Amy:

As a Christian, it is very easy to focus on the issues of abortion and gay marriage when we go to the voting booth. I know those were certainly reasons for me to cast my vote for McCain over Obama. However, something that hasn't been mentioned here is Obama's move toward a socialistic society. The more we hand our rights over to the governement, the less of a chance we as Christians have to make our voices heard. Yet if you look at the policies Obama is pushing to get passed, they are severely socialistic in nature. Even the issue of national healthcare, while it may sound like a good idea, takes the power away from "we the people" and puts it in the hands of someone else--"they the government". I would be interested in hearing what other Christian women think about this, especially since we are all mothers and are probably wondering what the America of tomorrow is going to look like for our children and grandchildren.






So you would rather have "power" then help people around the nation receive health care that would have never received it before?  I know what is more important to me.






Obama may be getting it all right...he may be getting it all wrong.  The point is that he is TRYING.  He cares about everyone in the nation.  Not just christians.  He is looking out for all people in our nation.  We, as christians, can't expect the president to stand for exactly what we stand for.






It saddens me that many christians haven't even given him the chance.  What happened here?  Do you honestly think Obama is pro-abortion? Really??  He is realistic on all these issues.  It really hurts to hear that christians are labeling another christian as pro-abortion.  Who does that!?






Please think about this, as I have thought about your comments. 






 





It is so sad that you believe only what you hear either from those or from main stream media.  I don't mean this in an offensive way.  I was once like you unitl I actually started to do some research on many different subjects.  Are you aware that the static given by Obama's people about child without health care also includes 25 years old that CHOOSE not to have health care.  The government cannot even effective run a small program like Cash for Clunkers what makes anyone believe that they can handle anything as big as nationwide healthcare.  Or look at the way Welfare is abused...another good example of how ineffienct the government really is.  As a nurse and a mother this scares me. Are you aware that somebody in an office some where will decide just how valuable you child's life is if they are sick.  And if they decide you child does not qualify for a procedure that you will not be able to pay privately for such a procedure.  I am a nurse in a hospital and I see amazing recoveries weekly, someone in an office somewhere can not effectively decide what procedures are worth.  Drs. go to medical school for a reason.  Obamas plan takes so much away from patients and doctors alike.



 



And yes Obama does really support abortions...not only abortions, but late term partial birth abortions. I am a christian that tries to keep an open mind, but when you hear both sides of the story it's easy to not be on his side.  Just look at how his ratings have dropped and that proves that so many people blindly voted for him and now their eyes are wide open.  I don't think he is a person, I just don't think he is right for the job!



I do not expect that any president will have every view that I do, I had hoped that we wouldn't get stuck with a president that differs so greatly.  Oh and what he is trying at is trying to make this a socialist country.  National healthcare has never worked well anywhere...just ask canadians how long it takes to get a simple procedure done....much long than it takes here!



 



Oh and by the way just people are not entitled to insure, it is a privledge, not a right laid out in the constitution.

Katie - posted on 08/22/2009

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Then you should be more concerned about what Obama is doing. If you pay attention to mainstream media you are not getting the truth of the situation here.

Peg - posted on 08/21/2009

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The term separation of church and state has been taken WAY out of context.WHa twas meant by a separation was that our government cannot impose a certian form of religion.In the aspect of which sect of christianity.At that time the founding fathers wan't to make the point the england and other countries should not be imposing roman Catholism, protestant, or methodist teachings on it's people. I truly believe that God should have never been taken out of regular teaching. Maybe we would all have a better moral compass.

Yolanda - posted on 08/18/2009

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He is TRYING to control our lives and take away our freedoms. You don't think that as a conservative christian I'm not being labeled. Think again. I'm considered by others as close minded, a bigot, hypocrite... and the list goes on. It scares me to think that you believe he's being realistic. He's been in office over 200 days and has lied about several things. He is not fit to be our president and I pray all americans see through his deceit and vote for someone else in 3 1/2 years. God have mercy on our country!

Genie - posted on 08/18/2009

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Quoting Amy:

As a Christian, it is very easy to focus on the issues of abortion and gay marriage when we go to the voting booth. I know those were certainly reasons for me to cast my vote for McCain over Obama. However, something that hasn't been mentioned here is Obama's move toward a socialistic society. The more we hand our rights over to the governement, the less of a chance we as Christians have to make our voices heard. Yet if you look at the policies Obama is pushing to get passed, they are severely socialistic in nature. Even the issue of national healthcare, while it may sound like a good idea, takes the power away from "we the people" and puts it in the hands of someone else--"they the government". I would be interested in hearing what other Christian women think about this, especially since we are all mothers and are probably wondering what the America of tomorrow is going to look like for our children and grandchildren.



So you would rather have "power" then help people around the nation receive health care that would have never received it before?  I know what is more important to me.



Obama may be getting it all right...he may be getting it all wrong.  The point is that he is TRYING.  He cares about everyone in the nation.  Not just christians.  He is looking out for all people in our nation.  We, as christians, can't expect the president to stand for exactly what we stand for.



It saddens me that many christians haven't even given him the chance.  What happened here?  Do you honestly think Obama is pro-abortion? Really??  He is realistic on all these issues.  It really hurts to hear that christians are labeling another christian as pro-abortion.  Who does that!?



Please think about this, as I have thought about your comments. 



 

Sabrina - posted on 08/06/2009

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All of us have good points. But I am starting to see a trend of where there has been no Democrats respond to the question. One woman has said she voted but didnt say why. I guess she couldn't back up her decision or didnt want to start debate.

Yolanda - posted on 08/06/2009

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Great Q. I voted as a conservative christian would vote and we lost. We need to get down on our knees and pray that God's wrath doesn't come down on us, like we deserve. Not standing firm for our moral beliefs, God's word, is giving into the devil's hand. It bothers me when people say "don't impose your religious views on me", when that is what they are trying to do to those of us who are against same-sex marriage and abortion. We need to fight the good fight and live according to God's word. Our country needs God! Pray Sisters-in- Christ for God's mercy on our country!!!!

Shelly - posted on 08/04/2009

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Allison,

If you want him for your leader we are more than happy to give him to ya!!!



Here is what everyone is missing I don't care if your Dem. or Rep. what you should be touting is " I'M A CHRISTIAN" and thats the way I vote...The other thing that all of you seem to be missing is that O'bama is in office because the Lord put him there. Nothing in this world happens with out the Lord knowing about it...O'bama is a part of the Lords plan no I don't know what that plan is but it is His perfect plan...It could be he allowed this so that we as Christians would get back to growing our roots in Him and that is the personal relationship with him. I am not worried about what O'bama does or doesn't do what I'm worried about is what I am doing and thinking and wether or not I have lived MY life for Christ...Every time an electin comes around I go into prayer about who i am going to vote for and there have been times that I have been told not to vote and there have been times I have been lead to vote for a Dem. I do not rely on my own knowledge to make the choice I rely on the One that knows...I suggest that all of you get into a Bible study on Revelations and see what the Lord has for us and when you go into this studie do it from the point of view of Gods Love for us and not the doom and gloom that most people wants to tout...When ever you read your Bibles read it looking for Gods love not just answers for what you are going through at the time and He will always give you what you need...NOT what you want but what you NEED....So the next time you start getting into a frinzy about what our goverment is doing just remeber that God is in control and he has a plan and nothing happens with out Him being there in control...And for those of you that want to argue the point about the evil things that happen in this world YES God is in control of it...Go back and read Job God gave Job to the enemy...And yes God had a bigger plan than anyone at the time could see...That is the first place in the Bible that the idea of a personal relationship with Christ is formed, By Job going through what God allowed to happen it strenthened Jobs walk with the Lord...So I don't care who is sitting up there in the white house. Because he/she has no baring on my walk with the Lord...My only concern is WHO is sitting on the Throne. My King my Lord my Savior Jesus Christ...

Laura - posted on 08/03/2009

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I lived in Illinois when Obama was a Senator and no I did not vote for him. I have talked to co-workers before the Presidential election who looked at me like I was insane and asked how could I be a Christian and a Republican? I was shocked to say the least. I know Obama voted for late term abortion and allowing a live birth to be killed following an abortion. Well the few times he did vote that is. The times he voted was usually a vote of "present" you can check the Senate records regarding this. I wasn't happy with either Presidential candidate but when McCain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate I was happy to vote for him, he chose a woman who isn't afraid to stand up for her beliefs and live by them. As far as abortion goes, you can say no to sex, it is possible and there is also adoption, there are so many couples out there that want children desperately and can't have them. I have a niece, a cousin and more that I know would adore having children. Obama is a Chicago Democrat which is known nationwide as being one of the most corrupt city governments in the country. And while I didn't agree with everything George W did, I think he did it with the best intentions, he got off track, but what Christian hasn't gone off track at some point? Who are we to judge? Obama's former church(he didn't leave it until it made the news) was a racially hateful charged atmosphere and Obama response was that he didn't listen? He didn't know his pastor of 17 years was a hatemonger? So if he didn't listen in church why was he there? Was it to make it look like he was a Christian? Also I don't believe he has 'found' a church yet in Washington to attend. And sorry but he was a little too chummy with Ted Kennedy during Bushes speeches. When President Bush talked about the troops, they both sat there and half heartedly applauded, and yes it was clear to see. While everyone else was giving our troops a standing ovation, they continued to sit and lazily clap their hands. Which shows a lack of respect for our troops. I have to vote my conscious and my conscious says that the Republican platform is the closet to my Christian beliefs. There were dissenters during WWII as well. I thank God no one listened to them or we would all be speaking German.

Rebecca - posted on 07/22/2009

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The bible teaches us to take care of ourselves and our family, to give what we can, and love one another. I believe that if we did that we could put the government out of the welfare business. I have seen the system fail in almost every case I am familiar with. Next All you have to do is go down to the Motor vehicle department to see how the government runs things. I recently spent over 2 hours in there while 9 people were helped. I sure don't want them running my health care, and the cap and trade bill, good luck selling your home, you will have to make huge improvements. Obama promised tranparency, but no one in congress has even read half of the bills that they have voted to pass this year. HOW CAN YOU VOTE FOR SOMETHING YOU HAVEN'T EVEN READ!!! It goes way deeper than abortion as a christian. Both Dems and Rep. are way out of touch with the people. I hope everyone votes for a true change in the next election.

Shane - posted on 07/21/2009

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When I think of it Amy, it makes me feel sick. I cry when I am reminded of how much our forefathers, our veterans, the men and women who built this country with their own two hands, sacrificed, then talk with people in this country who have such an apathetic attitude. One day when speaking with a young girl I asked her if she was going to vote and she said no. I said to her that someone's grandfather died to protect that privledge for her and she said, "So.?"



Everything starts somewhere. In China families who have more than 2 children are forced to have abortions. (We now help to surrepititously fund that evil because of Obama.) Now look at the uproar over the woman who had all those babies when she already had 6 (not that I agree with what she did at all). There was a lot of talk about how that kind of thing could be stopped from happening again. Really? Are we going to start dictating how many children people can have now?



In China, Christians are forced to meet and worship in underground churches. In America, we are beginning to see war memorials with crosses be torn down, the Ten Commandments taken out of buildings, school children who can not wear a cross on their clothing or as adornment because someone might be offended, even college students who are flunked because they refuse to bow the the atheist theology in class. Now there is even legislation that will put people in jail for calling abortion and homosexuality and fornication a sin. It is now a hate crime punishable with jail time. I've made none of this up folks. (check out www.aclj.org)



Didn't the Soviet Union dictate employment and wages? People are angry because bank executives and others make exorbitant amounts of money, so we want to cap how much money they can make when being paid with tax dollars. Of course there is sense in that. But where does it end? Where does the end begin?



I don't know all the answers, but we are on a slippery slope. When are Americans going to take their country back? When will we be angry enough to be moved to action? Will it be too late?

Amy - posted on 07/20/2009

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As a Christian, it is very easy to focus on the issues of abortion and gay marriage when we go to the voting booth. I know those were certainly reasons for me to cast my vote for McCain over Obama. However, something that hasn't been mentioned here is Obama's move toward a socialistic society. The more we hand our rights over to the governement, the less of a chance we as Christians have to make our voices heard. Yet if you look at the policies Obama is pushing to get passed, they are severely socialistic in nature. Even the issue of national healthcare, while it may sound like a good idea, takes the power away from "we the people" and puts it in the hands of someone else--"they the government". I would be interested in hearing what other Christian women think about this, especially since we are all mothers and are probably wondering what the America of tomorrow is going to look like for our children and grandchildren.

Shane - posted on 07/20/2009

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We must be guardians of what is good and right. Someone must, or else we will become like Sodom and Gomorrah.

Emily - posted on 07/17/2009

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I'm assuming most of you asking how a true Christian could vote democrat are of the faith?

Emily - posted on 07/17/2009

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Quoting Alison:




This is absolutely untrue Sabrina... US goes to war, Canada goes to war. Our economy is totally intertwined with yours. No two countries do more trade than Canada and US. The economic crash in the US has had worldwide consequences! Most developped countries are impacted by the decisions made in the US.






Very true. Good point Alison. Not an Obama fan, but your statement is true.

Sabrina - posted on 07/15/2009

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Quoting Michelle:



Quoting Alison:




Quoting Michelle:

The Democratic party is pro-choice simply because they believe that it is the woman's choice to do with her body as she so pleases. This belief is an error. There is not one woman/girl alive who has the right to choose what she does with her bodies, especially if it is against the Lord.







I am rapidly growing tired of this discussion and it seems to be bearing absolutely no fruit. However, I must respond, Michelle, that you are entirely mistaken. God gave each one of us the choice to believe or not to believe, the choice to sin or to do good, to love or to hate. God does not impose his will on others and neither did Jesus! God allowed Adam and Eve to sin in the garden. He allowed Cain to kill his brother. He allowed his beloved son to be brutally murdered!








God is clear about what he likes and dislikes, but if he does not impose his will on others, I will certainly not do it for him.









You are correct, God does not impose His will on us. It is for us to choose to follow His will because He wants each of us to come to Him of our own free will. God gives us this choice because He wants us to choose His way over the ways of the world. Once we have chosen His will over our own then we are, as Christians, charged with not only following His will per the Bible, but also spreading that message to others. This can be accomplished by living, and being an example to others. Standing up and speaking when the world goes against God's will for our lives. That is where you are missing the mark. We are charged with spreading His word, and following in the path He has set for us. He has charged us with standing up for His beliefs and not allowing the sins of the world to rule our lives, but to rise above them and be an example to the world. We cannot be an example if we just let the world do what it wants by being on the fence or allowing the world to do what it wants without opposition. If it goes against the Bible we are charged to rise up against it and follow Jesus' example. Jesus stood up against those who mislead others, He stood up for God's way of life. Those who are on the fence will be held accountable in the same way that those who hardened their hearts and went against Gods will. These are clearly stated in the Bible, and those who profess themselves to be Christian are charged with fighting for those beliefs when necessary and being an example in everything that we do. The passion that Christ has placed in my life is something that only comes from Him, and that belief is something every Christian should hold dear. I am not afraid to stand up for these beliefs, and will fight for them whenever necessary. By voting against those who are on the fence in their beliefs, or those who go against the Bible's teaching, I am fighting for God's way of life. The great thing about it is that I know who wins in the end.  





i just wanted to say well said michelle. thank you for fighting the good fight. and yes we know who will win in the end. god bless.

Michelle - posted on 07/14/2009

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Quoting Alison:



Quoting Michelle:

The Democratic party is pro-choice simply because they believe that it is the woman's choice to do with her body as she so pleases. This belief is an error. There is not one woman/girl alive who has the right to choose what she does with her bodies, especially if it is against the Lord.





I am rapidly growing tired of this discussion and it seems to be bearing absolutely no fruit. However, I must respond, Michelle, that you are entirely mistaken. God gave each one of us the choice to believe or not to believe, the choice to sin or to do good, to love or to hate. God does not impose his will on others and neither did Jesus! God allowed Adam and Eve to sin in the garden. He allowed Cain to kill his brother. He allowed his beloved son to be brutally murdered!






God is clear about what he likes and dislikes, but if he does not impose his will on others, I will certainly not do it for him.





You are correct, God does not impose His will on us. It is for us to choose to follow His will because He wants each of us to come to Him of our own free will. God gives us this choice because He wants us to choose His way over the ways of the world. Once we have chosen His will over our own then we are, as Christians, charged with not only following His will per the Bible, but also spreading that message to others. This can be accomplished by living, and being an example to others. Standing up and speaking when the world goes against God's will for our lives. That is where you are missing the mark. We are charged with spreading His word, and following in the path He has set for us. He has charged us with standing up for His beliefs and not allowing the sins of the world to rule our lives, but to rise above them and be an example to the world. We cannot be an example if we just let the world do what it wants by being on the fence or allowing the world to do what it wants without opposition. If it goes against the Bible we are charged to rise up against it and follow Jesus' example. Jesus stood up against those who mislead others, He stood up for God's way of life. Those who are on the fence will be held accountable in the same way that those who hardened their hearts and went against Gods will. These are clearly stated in the Bible, and those who profess themselves to be Christian are charged with fighting for those beliefs when necessary and being an example in everything that we do. The passion that Christ has placed in my life is something that only comes from Him, and that belief is something every Christian should hold dear. I am not afraid to stand up for these beliefs, and will fight for them whenever necessary. By voting against those who are on the fence in their beliefs, or those who go against the Bible's teaching, I am fighting for God's way of life. The great thing about it is that I know who wins in the end.  

Alison - posted on 07/14/2009

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Quoting Michelle:

The Democratic party is pro-choice simply because they believe that it is the woman's choice to do with her body as she so pleases. This belief is an error. There is not one woman/girl alive who has the right to choose what she does with her bodies, especially if it is against the Lord.


I am rapidly growing tired of this discussion and it seems to be bearing absolutely no fruit. However, I must respond, Michelle, that you are entirely mistaken. God gave each one of us the choice to believe or not to believe, the choice to sin or to do good, to love or to hate. God does not impose his will on others and neither did Jesus! God allowed Adam and Eve to sin in the garden. He allowed Cain to kill his brother. He allowed his beloved son to be brutally murdered!



God is clear about what he likes and dislikes, but if he does not impose his will on others, I will certainly not do it for him.

[deleted account]

Interesting question and one I have wondered about and would like to understand also.

I voted for McCain (ok, I really voted for Palin.) We vote our Christian Values. Always will.

Michelle - posted on 07/09/2009

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The Democratic party is pro-choice simply because they believe that it is the woman's choice to do with her body as she so pleases. This belief is an error. There is not one woman/girl alive who has the right to choose what she does with her bodies, especially if it is against the Lord. Those who have this misguided belief are failing to realize that our bodies were given to us by God, and they are God's possession to do with us as He wills, not as we will. Whether you would practice abortion or not, if you are pro-choice you are going against God's will. Being a Democrat and a Christian is a contradiction. Democrats believe more in wordly ways, as Christian's we are to set ourselves apart from the world and practice God's ways. With that being said, we are also commanded to obey the laws of the land as long as those laws do not go against God. If those laws go against God then we are to stand up for our Christian beliefs and go against the worldly law. This does not protect us from persecution. Even though we are commanded to rise up against those who would try to require Christians to go agains God's commands we are also commanded to accept whatever punishment the law gives us for our uprising. We are not saved from persecution. In these times we are being tested. Will you choose God's way or the worlds way? Obama chooses the worlds way and by doing so is a false Christian. Remember that God puts all rulers in place for His own reasons and his own purpose. Sometimes that purpose is to bring those in line who lifted themselves above the Lord to go seek their own desires instead of His. Sometimes it is a punishment because of the multitude who are putting their own selfish desires above God's will. Sometimes it is to usher in a new day, and sometimes it is to prepare us for the end. Whatever God's will is with this administration, I will abide by Obama's laws so long as they do not go against the Lord. Those laws that do I will not follow, but will accept the consequences for beaking the laws of the land. It is important to stand up for God's commands, and God's beliefs. This world is just the beginning, the bigger picture is eternal life.

Leslie - posted on 07/09/2009

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wow this is amazing, the most sad thing is that even christians are becoming so accustomed and desensitized to topics such as gay marriage, abortion, etc. That they have convinced themselves that there is a seperation between their faith and their political views. I vote christian! :) Because we have taken God out of this country is why we are where we are. I encourage all of you to read your bible, study what God tells us about these things. Don't take someones word for it. Someone else isn't getting you to heaven.

Shannon - posted on 07/09/2009

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I am proud to say that I voted republican even though I did not care that much for McCain. I needed to put my differences of polical views aside and vote for what was morally right.

Christa - posted on 07/09/2009

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Quoting Elizabeth:

I guess the next question should be what is your definition of Christian? If it's following Jesus' example He specifically told His disciples the world would hate them as it hated Him. It doesn't seem to me the world hates Obama nor does it hate his supporters, but it IS very clear the world hates moral conservatism, personal accountability, and anything that smacks of inhibiting licentiousness. Is that what Jesus died for? So we can do as we please, seeking selfish, carnal pleasure all the days of our lives and in the end be free from eternal consequence?


 



That's an important question, I've found in other discussions (not referring to anyone here) when people claim themselves a Christian they have a different definition then I do.  They think God is there, but the bible is more guidelines and God will tell them how to feel and what is right.  Like on the subject of homosexuality, they think God is telling them that is ok, because homosexuals are good people and should be treated fairly.  Never mind what is very clearly written in the bible.  I believe Jesus is our savior and the ONLY way to eternal life and I believe the Bible is his absolute word on what is right and wrong and how we are to live our lives.  That is my definition of a Christian.

Christa - posted on 07/09/2009

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Quoting Elizabeth:

I guess the next question should be what is your definition of Christian? If it's following Jesus' example He specifically told His disciples the world would hate them as it hated Him. It doesn't seem to me the world hates Obama nor does it hate his supporters, but it IS very clear the world hates moral conservatism, personal accountability, and anything that smacks of inhibiting licentiousness. Is that what Jesus died for? So we can do as we please, seeking selfish, carnal pleasure all the days of our lives and in the end be free from eternal consequence?


 



That's an important question, I've found in other discussions (not referring to anyone here) when people claim themselves a Christian they have a different definition then I do.  They think God is there, but the bible is more guidelines and God will tell them how to feel and what is right.  Like on the subject of homosexuality, they think God is telling them that is ok, because homosexuals are good people and should be treated fairly.  Never mind what is very clearly written in the bible.  I believe Jesus is our savior and the ONLY way to eternal life and I believe the Bible is his absolute word on what is right and wrong and how we are to live our lives.  That is my definition of a Christian.

Christa - posted on 07/09/2009

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Quoting Alison:

I don't know what media you are getting your information from, but my research on the subject shows that Obama's views are very much in line with my own.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-coun...

I think he is an honest Christian who likes to think things through on his own (with some guidance from select advisors), and who understands that not all issues are so clear cut. I don't think that abortion should be an option for a faithful Christian, but I think it is a must in our society. There are some Christians out there who think that any hormonal birth control is ungodly. Can you imagine if it were made illegal??? Where do you draw the line?

All in all, Obama impresses me as a person and I would be exstatic to have him leading my country!


You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I encourage you to do more research.  His record is very clear.  And while that article is all warm and fuzzy that isn't what his voting record shows.  He is a charmer and very good and making you believe in him.  He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, the truth is there if you look. :-)



 

Sabrina - posted on 07/08/2009

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Well said Elizabeth. I just cant see my slf voting for someone who will haelp to protect things that are against my beliefs. I voted for McCain/Palin because of Palin. I have three children with a condition called Fragile X syndrome. At that right there is one reason iam against woman getting abortions not only murder in my eyes but just because of a flaw they are willing to end a humans live. What gives them the right. And if a girl wants to go out and have sex because she feels she is mature enough then she should take responsibility. And if she feels she cant do a good job at it then put the baby up for adoption. I was 19 when I had my first child and did it by myself along with family support. And when it comes to voting for same sex marriage i will vote against it. These laws were written based on christianity and i am not about to change them to acomidate someone elses sin. My God told me to go out and spread His word not the devils.

"You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." John Adams, second president of the US.

[deleted account]

I guess the next question should be what is your definition of Christian? If it's following Jesus' example He specifically told His disciples the world would hate them as it hated Him. It doesn't seem to me the world hates Obama nor does it hate his supporters, but it IS very clear the world hates moral conservatism, personal accountability, and anything that smacks of inhibiting licentiousness. Is that what Jesus died for? So we can do as we please, seeking selfish, carnal pleasure all the days of our lives and in the end be free from eternal consequence?

Chasity - posted on 07/08/2009

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I did not and would not ever vote for Obama, but I struggled for a long time on whether to vote for McCain or a third party. While I believe that a strong, Christian leader would be the best course for our country, I'm not so sure we have had that option in the Democratic or Republican party. I think that whoever is in office has to pander to the powers behind the scenes regardless of party affiliation.
As Christians, we especially have to be sure that we do not put our faith in any elected official. We have to trust that God will use whoever is there to bring about His purposes. Our security cannot be in the things that can be taken from us, but rather in the One who cannot be taken from us.

Michelle - posted on 07/08/2009

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I am a Christian, an American and a Democrat. I voted for Obama and am proud that I did.

[deleted account]

How can legalizing murder be a must for any society? Mother Teresa dedicated her life to caring for the poor and unwanted and yet her stance on abortion was firm. "It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." ~Mother Teresa
The list of societies in recent history that accepted abortion as necessary boasts such notable leaders as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zedong! Not societies I would ever want to align my values with!
What Jesus asks us to do is the same He asked His disciples to do. feed the hungry; give drink to the thirsty; clothe the naked; shelter the homeless;
visit the sick; ransom the captive; bury the dead. instruct the ignorant;
counsel the doubtful; admonish sinners; bear wrongs patiently;
forgive offences willingly; comfort the afflicted; pray for the living and the dead.
Who is more hungry, thirsty, and naked, in need of warmth, and shelter than an unborn, prematurely born or newborn baby?
Who is more sick, afflicted, and captive than the young mother contemplating murdering the flesh of her flesh because today's culture has told her it is a burden and doesn't fit her plans?
What better way to win the hearts of the next generation for Christ than to instruct these girls ignorant to the development of that Gift growing inside them, and to counsel them in their doubt - making them truly effective caregivers?
Finally, how can you, in good conscience, bury the dead you previously refused to admit was alive? or worth living?
Jesus said WE are our brothers keepers, not the government. By giving authority of such moral issues as poverty and abortion to the government, we are telling God we don't personally want that responsibility, we would rather just give our dollar to taxes and let "them" take care of it! Jesus NEVER deferred to civil authority any moral responsibility.
As per our Constitution, the American Government's job is to guide and protect our nation on the international level; domestic issues were to be left to the individual state governments. Politics, especially at the national level, has become extremely corrupt, therefore it is insanity to leave important moral decisions to their discretion.
Jesus knew the Law and the Jewish Law then and now forbids contraception and abortion. Yet, Jesus clearly stated He did not come to abolish or to change one dot of the Law. Alison asked where the line should be drawn, I ask where would Christ draw the line?

Deb - posted on 07/07/2009

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I also agree with the things Allison is saying. very thoughtful and well said deb

Deb - posted on 07/07/2009

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i voted democratic as a christian because i am anti war and pro being tolerant of all kinds of people, gay, straight, republican, democrat, liberal or conservative. I think the democratic party stands for both of those things.

I think you can be both a repub an dem and still find things that are good in Obamas administration. deb

Tammy - posted on 07/06/2009

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Regardless if you are a Republican or a Democrat, most politicians live worldly and not Godly. As in choosing the lesser of the "2 evils" we can all pray that we choose the correct leader. But all in all we are human. God gave us our own will. We make our own decisions. And with everything that is going on. I pray that I make the Godly decision and not the worldly one. Things are hard enough as it is. Even harder for one who LIVES the Christian way. I do not agree with many of the things that Obama has set forth. But he is our president. Not everyone is going to be happy with whoever is in office.

Christa - posted on 07/06/2009

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If you want, you should look into his abortion record. He's not just someone who has compassion for those in bad situations. He voted against a bill in Chicago, when he was in the state senate that would provide life saving measures to aborted babies (third trimester) that were born alive. HE voted against it, thankfully he was out voted. He has said "that he wouldn't want his daughters burdened with a baby", he is fine with the unrestricted murdering of innocent babies. One of his first acts while in office was to expand our funding of abortions around the world. I think we need to be decreasing abortions not increasing them. I know there are many that feel that extreme circumstances warrant an abortion, you seem to be one of them, but that is not Obama. He is one of the most heartless people I've seen when it comes to this subject. To me abortion is murder no matter what and only God has the ability to take life, no matter what the situation. But that's my belief and while I don't understand it I can respect that you feel differently.

Alison - posted on 07/06/2009

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Thanks for trying to understand Christa.

I am not familiar enough with Obama to know if calling him pro-abortion is fair. I would guess that he may have been closer to the reality some girls/women have to face... it is not always just black and white (referring to right and wrong, not to race). If you spend time working with troubled teenagers (facing drug dependancies, etc.), you get a very different perspective of what is right and what is wrong (and what is in everyone's best interest.

Now, if either of my daughters would have an unwanted pregnancy, I would absolutely insist that they carry the child to full term (same for myself, of course). Yet, if I were in politics, I would be pro-choice for the reasons I mentioned above. We need to be aware that the reality that some people have to face is entirely different from our own.

I think it is naive to try to forbid a whole country from sinning. Focus on those around you and on those who choose to do the will of God. A politician's job is to consider the best interest of his people. Leading the people in righteousness is the job of a spiritual leader.

Christa - posted on 07/06/2009

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Quoting Alison:

Here is my perspective... Until now, Obama seems to be a man who genuinely seeks the best interest of his people. This is a rare gift among politicians. It has been decades since the US has had such a president. A man who talks against abortion and same sex mariage, but who sends citizens to war for his own financial gain (and that of his friends and family), has little merit in my eyes.
It is for the good of the society to allow same sex marriage (committed relationships = fewer std's and generally a more stable society). Although in the church I insist that homosexuality be preached and taught to be sinful and unacceptable. We are called to be different from the world, not to make the world more like us. Imposing Christian values on non-believers is of no benefit to anyone!

Then there is abortion. It is my personal conviction that abortion "should" be avoided. But for the teenage girl who gets pressured into sex and gets pregnant the very first time and who doesn't have the courage and/or maturity to deal with the situation, it is better for her to go into a safe, secure abortion clinic that offers follow-up and counseling than for her to go to the butcher in the alley! It is blind to create laws according to the way things SHOULD be. Reality is what it is, and the government's job is to seek the best interest of the people (i.e. healthy abortions, rather than unhealthy abortions).
Jesus challenged everyone who wanted to follow him. He did not chase after the pagans, but the religious folks. God is a God of choice. Our choices have consequences, but we must not remove the freedom of choice which God has given us.


Thanks for sharing.  I guess I don't understand how you can have Christian values, yet vote to support such non-Christian behaviors.  While I understand not pushing our beliefs on to others, I still think you have to stand up for them.  And for me that means not voting for same sex marriage or abortion, as I can not support those who choose to commit either sin. As far as Obama goes, he supports letting a botched aborted fetus lay there to die, he is the extreme pro-choice, I would even call him pro-abortion.  I could never support someone who thinks that way. But again I do appreciate your thoughts.



 

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