Leave the Penis Be? Or Circumcise it?

CA - posted on 03/16/2011 ( 120 moms have responded )

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I only have a 7 month old baby (a girl) but I recently became aware of this debate over circumcision. I'm actually glad I was able to stumble upon in case I ever have a baby boy - I will have done all the research way ahead of time to make a proper decision.
So. What do you ladies think about circumcision? As for me, I hardly knew anything about the foreskin or circumcision to begin with, so I started my research there.

Here are two websites (one pro-circ, the other pro-intact). Visit these sites, read some articles... tell me what you think!

http://www.circinfo.net/
http://www.circumcision.org/

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Crystal - posted on 06/20/2011

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I did my sons because I was told I had to and did not look in to it. If I could do it all over again I would NOT. As a friend of mine asked just recently... Would you cut off part of your clit? No? then why would you do it to your son?

Merry - posted on 04/09/2011

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Hi Randie! I just wanted to offer a bit of my story with circumcision.

My brother is intact, as is my 3 cousins. But when I married my husband he was circ, as is his brother.

So when we conceived our son we disagreed about wether to do it or not. I read alot about why it's good, and also worried about things like uti, hygiene, appearance, and such. I hated the thought of him being cut, but my husband was and I did see some medical benefits to it so we agreed to do it.

For about a year everything was just fine. It healed well, didn't appear to hurt him after the surgery etc. But a dr finally noticed that it had reattached! His skin was stuck back on about half way up the head of the penis. He told us we had to pull it off. Sounds easy right. Well it was torture. It was literally sealed onto the head and to get it off I had to rip it back very hard. It took me about 2 weeks! Because each time I did it it was like he wouldn't breathe he cried so hard and I only ever got back a tiny part each time I ripped it. It was so red and swollen and he cried every diaper change. The worst part was he was already one year and he knew how to say no. So every diaper change he remembered and would anticipate and scream no no and try to push my hands away. I had to put my legs on top of his arms and legs to hold him down every time I did it. I cried so much.

Two weeks later it was all done. He still cried every diaper change and would push my hands away. And if he got poopy on the penis he screamed as i wiped it off. Well, two months later it had attached again despite me using Vaseline as directed. It took less time to get it off because I caught it right away but still just as traumatic for us both. Then like 5 months later I caught it about half way attached once more. By this time he was almost two and could say 'owwie mommy, no please no, all done!' etc.

It was the worst I've ever felt.

I started looking into circumcision because I felt how could this be the best choice.

Some things I've found were quite disturbing.

----32% in America the year my son was born were left intact. 2009. My son is in the minority because I had him cut.

--- only about 20% of the world is cut

--- yes circ appears to reduce uti rates but if you look into it more, uti's are caused alot in intact boys because Americans think you have to pull back the foreskin to clean under it, this is what causes the uti's. If a boy is intact the foreskin is attached to the head like a fingernail to the finger, pulling it back rips the skin and causes tiny tears that cause uti's.

---girls get waaaaayyyy more uti's then boys circ or not and we still think it's mutilation to circ a girl even though girls would benefit more from it then boys do!

---- intact penises are so much easier to care for then circ penises. Yes you hear it's the opposite but here's the facts, the foreskin is attached to the head at birth. It's never supposed to be pulled back by mom. Ever. As the boy grows it slowly loosens over years of erections. Most boys can pull it back between 4-17 years. So by the time it has to be washed under, moms work is done. The boy really has such an easier time cleaning it then his sisters anyways, and it's a simple thing to pull back the skin in the shower and let some water wash it off. That's all that is necessary!

--- the foreskin makes sex better for both man and woman. man because he has the skin rubbing on himself as well as the lady parts so it's even more pleasurable, and he also doesn't have to thrust so hard to feel good

Woman because the skin slipping around makes it more smooth and gentle and less rough. Also women benefit because the skin makes entry easier and less need for lubrication

--- men who have been cut can end up loosing all feeling in their penis if it's cut too much. Imagine him now with no pleasure from sex.

--- most men have a curved penis because of a cut that is slightly uneven. More serious complications can cause up to a right angle curve.

--- many men have hair on their penis base because the lack of skin makes some of the scrotum skin pull up onto the penis when hard

--- circ often removes the frenulum which is a very very sensitive strand of skin at the base and this piece is a great source of pleasure for a man

--- sometimes when the foreskin is pulled back to prepare for circ it can rip out small chucks of the head of the penis, this looks saad and is a big source of shame for those men who have a piece missing from their head of the penis.

---- circ doesn't protect from stds, think about it, if a man has sex with someone with an STD, foreskin or not he's likely to catch it. Condoms are the only prevention really.

---- reattachments like my sons are categorized as COMMON and MINOR side effects. If that's minor, I cant imagine what's categorized as a major side effect.

----- between 100-200 boys DIE every year in America from being circumcised.

--- circ is a preventative surgery, you never know if your son would have medical problems from his foreskin, you just don't know!

---- as for looking like dad or friends or brothers. Would you consider dying your sons hair to match DAds? Or fake eyeglasses to match dad? Penises are so private that even when they are seen, why should they match? I mean each child is different and every kid needs to learn that he is unique and special and one of a kind and he shouldn't try to fit in to every mold. Kids shouldn't match! They are unique. Even from dad. Dad is taller heavier faster hairyer etc.

---- as for wanting it done later in life, you talked to adult men, men who were the minority for being intact in their day and age. Men who likely did have their foreskin pulled back prematurely and this causes tearing and uti's and scarring etc. Men who likely were made fun of because they were the few who were intact back in the 70,80s. Times changed, boys now are more likely to be intact. Those men likely had sex with women who had never seen an intact penis before, they might feel ashamed that their penis was different then the women had seen before.

---- women who choose to circ their sons like to talk about it because they feel they made a beneficial choice for their son, so even if you think everyone you know Circed, it's possible the women who didn't circ just don't feel the foreskin is worth mentioning!

---- and even if the majority in your town is circ, do you think your son will alway live there? Fact is the majority of America, and the majority of the world is intact. He is more likely to fit in if he is intact.

--- of course there's the argument that Sarah pointed out that is very valid. Maybe we should leave the decision up to the boy himself. If he really wants it done later he can have general anesthesia, and heavy painkillers and medical leave from work etc. Babies get local anesthesia and Tylenol. That's just not nearly as good pain relief as what's available for men. And if a man is to scared to do it as a man, why would he be ok doing it to a brand new baby?



Fact is Randie, I was a mom who chose circ. I regret it so much.

I have nothing else in my whole life I regret more.

I did this to my son, I caused him all this pain. I messed with his body and hurt him in the process. I can't take it back.



And my son had a minor side effect. Imagine my guilt if he had a serious complication.



Imagine if he had died.



It's just not worth it, it's preventative surgery at best, cosmetic surgery at worst. And either way it could kill him.



Sure most boys are fine, most have no complications, most are still alive. But even if one boy died each year that's too much. One boy dying from an unnecessary surgery is ridiculous. But 100! These boys have left moms and dads who now likely would never imagine circ again. I mean no 'possible benefit' is worth risking your sons life.



Just think about it, please ask me anything you want I'm here to help.

Sarah - posted on 03/31/2011

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Oh no Randie :( You are so wrong on this one i am sorry to say! I don't want anything i say to come off as an attack because i like our chats on other posts lol but this one you are just sooo wrong :( I'm saying all this to HELP you make a better decision, please don't think i'm being nasty...



"With normal personal hygiene, the circumcised penis is no cleaner than the uncircumcised penis."



"If 1000 well boys are circumcised, 8 infections will be prevented, but 20 will have a complication related to the circumcision."



"It is unclear whether the risk of getting a sexually transmitted disease is altered by circumcision. What we can be sure of is that circumcision does not guarantee protection from infection. Normal safe sex practices must be used to prevent sexually transmitted diseases."



"Penile cancer is an uncommon disease of elderly men. It is very rare in either circumcised or uncircumcised men who practice good hygiene."



http://www.chw.edu.au/parents/factsheets...



I know you say you do it for cosmetic reasons, but dont you think your child who is a PERSON has a right to choose what HE thinks looks better?

Everyone has the right to bodily integrity and as a mum it is not your right to take that away from him.



The pain factor: http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/ci...



Also more babies die from the anesthetic given than die from penile cancer, but please make sure if you have a boy, he gets the anesthetic anyway!



You say they will forget the pain and will not be mentally harmed?

http://www.johmann.net/essays/psychologi... This is a great site!



I personally think the intact one looks better...

http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/co...



http://www.cirp.org/library/sex_function...

To summarize: Circ severely impairs sexual function... it causes more friction against the vaginal walls causing vaginal dryness, irritation for both male and female, and reduced sensation,and i mean REALLY reduced! Most of the sensation is from the foreskin rubbing and sever all those nerves and remove that entire sex organ makes sex a lot worse!



As for cleaning? How hard is it? lol you just teach them to pull back, rinse, done! Grown men are capable of that lol and as babies, you treat it no differently to a circ'd penis. There is no need to retract the foreskin and early retraction is what causes so many problems including infection.

I'll send this now but i'll be back with more facts later :)

Jaime - posted on 07/14/2011

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OKAY WHOA!!!! Laura...I asked and they said I was NOT allowed in the room when they did the procedure. They do numb the area, that was another question I asked before they took him. It was him and three other baby boys having it done.

My best friend had her son done and the doctor messed it up - so I am blessed that he had a good doctor because her boy had to have it redone at 18 months because it was growing over wrong to where it was affecting him going pee. He was given a local anesthesia and she was with him and he was totally fine after a couple days.

My husband is the one who is fully wanting all our boys to be circumcised so I find that issue that men think its a violation sort of strange. I asked him in the beginning if he felt being circumcised was wrong and he was like no way he is glad it was done...I'm tired of being bashed because of this. Especially by uneducated people.

CA - posted on 03/17/2011

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http://www.noharmm.org/choices.htm
Please refer to this article describing true, Jewish circumcision - the way it was originally intended and carried, and how it has changed over time, as well as alternative options Jewish families have for their sons other than full foreskin amputation.

As for Christians, absolutely NOWHERE in Scripture, I repeat - NOWHERE in Scripture, does it state that baby boys should undergo prepuce amputation. For a Christian, the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament. With the shedding of Christ's blood, once and for ALL, individual believers are no longer required to shed blood or make blood sacrifices of any kind. The only places in which circumcision is talked about in the N.T., it is, of course, only ever referring to ritual, religious circumcision - as they could not possibly have conceived of routine infant circumcision without a religious reason (like what goes on in America today). However, even though the N.T. only ever refers to ritual circumcision, the words do still apply to RIC. Read Acts 15:5-11. There the question of circumcision is brought up. The Pharisees claim that Gentiles should be circumcised (of course, referring to the original, ritual milah). St. Peter (the seat of Christ), responds by saying the Lord makes no distinctions between men (as circumcision was meant to distinguish believers from non-believers) and that all have been saved by GRACE through Jesus Christ. This is just one instace of many in the NT where it is stated that circumcision (milah) is no longer necessary for believers.

So if milah (cutting off just the floppy end of the foreskin for a RITUAL, religious purpose) is not even necessary for Christians, how on EARTH would RIC (full foreskin amputation) possibly be "required" for Christians? (that question is directed at you, Stephanie). I'm not sure where you got this notion, but I assure you, most confidently, that it is a very false notion indeed.

Furthermore, Catholics (I'm Catholic) can refer to Church teaching for answers on circumcision. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that amputations and mutilations performed on innocent people without strictly therapeutic reasons are against the moral law. Pope Pius XII taught that circumcision is morally permissible if it prevents a disease that cannot be countered any other way. There is much movement in the Catholic community to get a strict order on this matter for the Catholic Church to forbid foreskin amputation on the basis of the moral laws which are already in place.
http://www.catholicsagainstcircumcision....

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Merry - posted on 09/17/2011

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Well Dylan thanks for the insight! I don't care that you posted, you weren't trying to lie or anything so I don't find it offensive and I appreciate the insight.

I have to say that I've heard of some men whose foreskin is too tight due to premature retraction and they have remedied it by a simple slit being cut into the foreskin as opposed to the whole organ being cut off.

If the cream doesn't work maybe this would be a better option then a full circ.

Also, in case you are thinking of the circumcision look into stories of other men who have done it after being sexually active because I've read a few stories of men who noticed a huge decrease in sensitivity and pleasure after circumcising.

So don't go into it I'll informed! And many doctors here aren't properly trained to deal with intact men which is a shame but it seems the trend is thankfully turning into most American boys being left whole.

Merry - posted on 09/13/2011

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There's no rocket science need to care for a normal penis! By the time it can be cleaned under the foreskin the boy is old enough to do it himself, teach girls to wash their vulva with warm water and teach boys to wash their penis with warm water. There teaching complete! So simple, no college degree required.

Nayanda - posted on 09/13/2011

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I say circumcise it. Unless your husband doesn't have his circumcized then he is responsible for teaching his son how to care for it.

Merry - posted on 09/12/2011

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Poo can not get under the foreskin unless someone forceably retracts it. It is attached at birth like a fingernail!
Haven't i said this already?
Ok so I should have said 'cut off a part of his genitas' forgive me.

Desiree - posted on 09/12/2011

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Oh please! They didn't "cut off his genitals"!! Not that I agree, as I've said before, with having it done w/out anesthesia. I think that is awful. But that's a bit of an exaggeration.
I disagree w/ it being easier to clean an intact boy. That was so not my experience! My son constantly had poo that I had to clean out of the foreskin before he was done. It was even worse as we switched from BF to formula ( no need to hop on your soap box, I was unable to BF due to having PCOS and not producing... I nursed as long as I possibly could tho ) and he would get very sticky poo.

Merry - posted on 09/12/2011

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:0 I can't believe they would perform surgery with no anesthesia! I thought that was just back in the olden days! I can't fathom the pain of my genitals being cut off with no anesthesia!
That truly just gave me a stomach ache. your poor baby!
I know you said you 'learned later' so I hope that means you know that as a baby there's no extra to clean, in fact circumcised boys need more cleaning as babies then intact boys! My son gets all sorts of gunk on his penis and under the skin even after a circ, but intact boys have nowhere to get anything stuck in! And going to the potty is exactly the same circed or intact. Neither way is easy but that's boys for you!

Katie - posted on 09/12/2011

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wow there are a lot of posts on this topic... i had my little boy circumcised at the hospital when he was born, not really knowing what all it entailed. the only "pain relief" was a binky they dipped in sugar water. he screamed. but when it was done, it was done. i haven't had to worry about a lack of sanitation where i can't see every time i change a diaper, teaching him how to maneuver everything when going potty, and he won't be the minority when he's in his "peer pressure" teen age. plus, his looks like daddy's, so he can relate rather than trying to understand why he's different than everyone else.

i know these aren't religious reasons or really very well-educated reasons, but they are a few things i considered when making my decision, and learned afterwards.

Desiree - posted on 09/12/2011

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Randie.... sorry to get defensive. So many are total cows about the whole situation.
I cant say that I feel strongly about one side or the other. I dont see anything wrong with circumcision, nor do I see anything wrong with leaving a boy intact.
Im sure that because I am more familiar with circumcised vs uncircumcised, that made the decision easier for me. Truly tho, I left the decision up to my husband. After all he is the one with the penis. If he had said he wanted to leave our son intact then I would have been fine with that.
I just cant stand all the hate and guilt that is pushed on others for their choices. I dont see the relevance. IMO its not mutilation nor is it abuse. Although I do disagree with having it done w/out anesthesia. That is plain ignorance to me.
As for the links to ED, I suppose there always a chance, but most men I've encountered ( my husband included ) have had no such side effects. As for the pain, my Ped used a topical cream and my son was very comfortable through the whole procedure. He was more angry about being strapped down then what they were doing. And really, newborns are wiggly, I'd rather he be strapped down then have a slip.

Merry - posted on 09/12/2011

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I was taught that too Minnie but honestly I cant believe that, because honestly intact men have way way less infections then women, we as women have so much skin and creases and folds down there all just waiting to get infected and we get bladder infections so much more then men! So if it were for cleanliness then I'd think God would have been smart enough to command it to the gender that actually has the most issues with cleanliness right!
I think it was just an obedience thing, I mean his penis is a mans pride and joy lol so asking him to cut on it proves complete obedience.
But then of course Jesus' sacrifice took away the need for blood sacrifices so we do not need to circumcise anymore.

Merry - posted on 09/12/2011

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Well it's tough to figure out why God commanded Jews to circumcise, I think it was mostly just to show the utmost level of commitment to God. But it's important to know that in the old testament, circumcision was minor, it was just cutting off the extra skin right at the tip. So it wasn't the whole foreskin, just a small circle at the end.

The whole foreskin amputation was started by the Catholics I believe as a way to stop boys from masterbating because they loose so much sensation.

I've heard circ revered to as 'the cure without a problem'

There's been many many reasons over the years that have been used to push this surgery on newborns. Honestly it's really sad I think. Now it's aids, I mean seriously, circed or not I think if you have sex with an aids infected woman without using a condom I bet you're gonna catch it. So, wrap it up! Lol

Minnie - posted on 09/12/2011

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circumcision in biblical times ...hygiene. They did not bathe often. Also, women while on their monthly cycle were considered unclean and were not to associate with the general public or outside of their designated areas. They did not have the conveniences we have today.



I'm not an authority .....that's what I was taught :-)

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I wasn't going to argue with you Desiree. I too was pro circ. I'm starting to open my eyes now and see that the only reasons anyone does it nowadays is because that is what they grew up with and that is what they are familiar with. That was my reason also.

Ive started to realize that if no one I knew was circumcised I would think that circumcising was ridiculous and cruel. However everyone in my family and community pretty much are circumcised so I guess it just kind of numbed me to the reality of the procedure. Think just for a second that you had never heard of circumcision. Then someone tells you that when their baby was born they had a piece of his penis cut off so that she wouldn't have to clean it...see doesn't that seem a little crazy??

I'm not at all concerned with the risks of circumcision. You are right there are risks with everything. That was my argument as well. I honestly was just curious what your reasons are and I can understand why you would not respond since most of the time we are just drilled with the same arguments we have read a million times trying to get us to change our minds.

My reasons for changing my mind was not because of the risks of circumcision. I changed my mind for two reasons: 1) because of the initial pain they go threw during the procedure 2) because I believe that circumcision may be linked to ED.

I know you can have the doctor do it under anesthesia but I had a fear of "what if it doesn't work" then he would feel that intense pain and I would never forgive myself if he felt that pain. It just breaks my heart watching the videos of babies being circumcised. And about the ED...even if it's not linked to ED (erectile dysfunction) there is no doubt that some sensation is lost when you cut off the foreskin. I wouldn't want to take that away from anyone...I figure that when he is older and wants to become sexual active (when he is married of course :) He can decide if he wants to be circumcised or not. Maybe he doesn't like being uncircumcised, or maybe he doesn't want to risk losing any sensation...well then that's something he can decide for himself.

LAURA (or anyone else)- Just curious, do u know anything about the religious reasons for circumcising...I know it's not necessary anymore but when it was necessary, why did they circumcise? I thought I read somewhere that it was because it made a man lose sensation...was it a form of sacrifice or punishment in some way.

Merry - posted on 09/12/2011

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Minnie, boys are born with the foreskin attached to the head, it's supposed to loosen on it's own somewhere between 3-18 years of age so at 11 this boy could just not have been ready for his foreskin to loosen up. Before the child can retract the skin on his own painlessly it should be left alone. It's attached and not movable! No cleaning is necessary until the boy can retract it on his own.

Minnie - posted on 09/12/2011

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I have mixed emotions about this one...
My OB/GYNE felt it was unnecessary and painful for babies and so I didn't have it done to my son. However, as little boys grow they must be taught to clean the penis properly when bathing/washing up. Another male child that I know, who didn't practice this had his foreskin to become stuck to the shaft of the penis....thereby making it necessary for him to have a circumcision at 11yrs.

Desiree - posted on 09/12/2011

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Randie, it is really irrelevant why we chose to. It is done, with no regrets.
There are risks no matter which road you take. If you dont cut then there is the possibility for problems later. If you do cut then there is the possibility for problems, as there is with any procedure.
My husband chose to have it done because we believe it is cleaner and easier to care for ( yeah yeah I've heard all the arguments ). My husband is done, my younger brother was done, it was simply what I was familiar with. At the same time I did seriously look into ALL the information before making that decision, so it wasn't a blind decision. It was mine and my husbands choice. If my husband had been dead set against it, then I would have taken that into consideration and we probably wouldn't have done it. But since that wasn't the case, we made the decision we made.

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I wanted to have it done for my son, but when he was prematurely born the doctor said to do it later. We ended up not doing it at all due to the procedure costing over $800 a few months later. My husband was glad we never had it done for our son, he wishes he himself didn't have it done as a baby as he feels it would help him more sexually. I only wanted it because I thought that is what you were supposed to do, but as the healthcare system doesn't find it a necessary procedure we didn't have it done.

Stephanie - posted on 09/11/2011

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1 Corinthians 7:19 - "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters."
That sums it up right there!
I have 4 boys and they are all Uncircumcised. I am a Christian but I do not believe in circumcision. Now if my husband at the time had been circumcised I may have had them also only bc I wouldnt have known any better. I always just thought it was what was done. I never realized it was an option until they gave me the option.
All in all, dont do it. There is no need. None of my 4 boys (ages 3 - 12) have every had any kind of infections or complications from being Uncircumcised.

Merry - posted on 09/11/2011

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There's a good deal of Jews choosing to leave their sons intact these days. It's thankfully a growing trend to let boys keep their whole genitals.

Merry - posted on 09/11/2011

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It is a personal choice, and it should be decided by the owner of the penis! Not by the parents.

LeAnn - posted on 09/11/2011

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We didn't cut pieces off our daughter when she was born, so I couldn't see why we'd cut pieces off our son, either. Circumcision is medically unnecessary & also unnecessary for Christians (which our family is). I'm anti-circ, if you can't tell. I will stand behind a Jewish family if they choose to circ, but I'd also pray for them to recognize their Messiah & realize that with Him, circumcising the flesh is unnecessary. Circumcision of the heart is what's required.

Desiree - posted on 09/11/2011

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Circumcision is a personal choice. I am neither pro nor con. Both my husband and I chose to have my son done, but really it was something I left up more to my husband, since I didn't feel passionate about it one way or the other. My ped is wonderful and we did it when he was 1 week old ( he came just a little early, or we would have done it sooner ). They used a topical cream on him and he didn't seem phased by the whole thing at all. He was more angry about being strapped down ( he didn't even like to be swaddled, so I saw that coming. ) The only time he really howled is when they did the PKU test afterward. But it wasn't some horrific traumatizing thing. I would completely agree however, that doing it w/out any kind of anesthesia would be horrible tho! My friends sons were done w/ lidocaine and they seemed to cry more then my son did.
But its a personal choice, that is between you and your husband/family. If you feel so adamant against it then by all means, dont circumcise! But that does not give you the right to spew such hatred toward others.

Corinne - posted on 09/11/2011

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No, Christians, doctrinally, are not still required to circumcise their children. That is false if you read the doctrine thoroughly.

Merry - posted on 09/08/2011

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Yup mommas are built to handle pain! Lol Eric had a bad latch too since it was 5 hours after birth before I was able to hold or nurse him.

[deleted account]

Yep I know all about RAM. lol..Although Ive never heard it being called RAM how cute. But since her mouth was so little I couldn't get her much farther then the tip of my nipple. She could only get it in her mouth by sucking it in there. Once she was latched on I could manually adjust her little lips a little farther on the areola (not sure about that spelling). Her top lip was always tucked up inside her mouth so I had to manually pull her lip outward everytime. But like I said she has finally figured out how to get her mouth on there by herself. And I would never stop nursing just cause it hurt, so I didn't mind just waiting for her to learn how to get her mouth on there. It's not that a little mouth can't fit on there right, it's just that a little mouth makes it harder for them to learn the right way to do it.

Delia - posted on 09/08/2011

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Remember it's not just the width of the mouth for the latch that's important. How far back on the nipple/breast will have an effect as well. My last two were preemies who opened their mouths like birds. I had to learn to "RAM" them on (an acronym for rapid arm movement), the idea being that as soon as that mouth opens, wham that sweat head/mouth far onto your breast/nipple so that they'll get more of it in their mouths.

The other thought is letting them look for the nipple while positioned straight up and down, let them fall gently (arms around them) to be sideways with breast and let them self attach. No C hold no nothing. You can also start out on your back with baby's head a little under nipple. Help, but don't guide. Make baby do work of scooting up, wobbling that head around and you will be surprised when baby opens wide and latches on. They can do it! Their latch will usually be much better. Give it a try. Sore nipples, and especially cracked/scabbed nipples are ABSOLUTELY unnecessary. You know it's an indication of a shallow latck.

[deleted account]

OMG I know! those uterine contractions while I nursed were as bad as the contractions I was having in labor at 9 cm dilated! They were extremely painful. I was having to moan threw them just like I was in labor. They were ridiculous! But they did do an amazing job at shrinking my belly. I came out of the hospital (the next day after having her) with almost no belly...it was awesome. The nurse kept calling them cramps...I was like UMM NO these are not cramps they are contractions! lol

But I always said I would go threw any kind of pain for as long as it took to give my babies the best...so that's what I did. And my husband was awesome at helping me threw nursing at the hospital. As well as helping me threw my labor contractions and pushing. I love him oh so much!

[deleted account]

So here is my conclusion after reading, thinking, talking, debating:

Circumcision without anesthesia is absolutely insane. and if any mother says that it's okay then seriously go watch some videos and see if it doesn't change your mind.

Circumcision WITH anesthesia...

The only case that I would do an INFANT circumcision is if he needed it done for whatever logical reason. Or I will admit that if he was born with way too much foreskin, which hopefully is rare. But I have seen many pictures of men with just way to long of foreskin. And that is a fitting in issue I admit. But seriously a mans penis is the main focus of there confidence. Plus, too much access skin hanging off seems like it would be really hard to clean. I would have to have it done...sorry ladies...but again....WITH ANESTHESIA.

My plan.. When I have a boy I won't be having him circumcised (Unless for some rare need for it) It is not hard to take care of since the foreskin should not be retracted anyways. My biggest concern would be teaching him how to clean it once it does retract on it's own, because I feel like that will be a very awkward day. lol So I'm not sure how I'm going to go about teaching him. (I guess I could just give him some print offs about how to do it.)

But I do still think there are medical benefits to being circumcised. Not enough to get me to cut my newborn baby. But all of the benefits seem to be later in life problems, particularly after being sexually active. So when he wants to have sex (which shouldn't be until he wants to get married anyways!) he can decide whether or not he wants to be circumcised. And maybe him and his fiance could talk about that together, what she would like better. And I honestly will pay for it myself. Even if he wants it done when he is 12 because he notices alot of other boys are circumcised and he feels uncomfortable...I will take him when he is 12. Well maybe 13. They shouldn't be comparing there penis's anyways lol.

Anyway infant circumcision doesn't make sense to me since the benefits of it isn't until later in life anyway so why not circumcise later in life instead of when they are unable to voice there opinion.

AND NOT JUST THERE OPINION BUT THERE ABILITY TO TELL YOU IF IT HURTS TOO BAD OR NOT!! even if you use anesthesia...my biggest fear of that is what if it doesn't work. :( your poor baby has no way of telling you. Especially if people keep claiming that there screaming is only because of discomfort. You know..a mother can tell if a cry is from being hungry or a cry from being in pain. The video I posted below is a cry from being in severe pain. Even the daddy knew that....STUPID DOCTOR! poor baby :(

Merry - posted on 09/08/2011

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Lol my son has 18 teeth and still nurses! He only bit three or so times around 9 months and then never has since! Yeah it is more painful second time around with let downs, but by now I don't even feel it :) also this time I felt the uterine contractions while nursing. Man those hurt! Ah well being a mom is full of pain and hardships right!

[deleted account]

She is my second. I have a 3 year old little girl also. Kailynn Marie Mae Nichols. She loves her new little sister sooo much. It's so cute.

With my oldest daughter in the beginning of breastfeeding it hurt and I was sore for like 2 weeks only and it was perfect after that. I breast fed for 9 months with her. She bit me and after that I was way to nervous to have those teeth near my booby lol. With this one it's been almost 4 weeks and I am finally not sore anymore. This time it seemed to have been way more painful. Plus the letdown is painful this time (wasn't with my first). It feels like needles all over, and then add sore nipples to that..holy cow you should see my face everytime I nurse. It has finally gotten easier. Her mouth was just too small to latch on right I think. Letdown is still very uncomfortable though. With this baby I plan on breastfeeding as long as I can produce milk. But once she gets teeth I will be pumping and just using a bottle. I can't handle those teeth. It's like a lightning bolt down my whole body.

And yes it does seem like forever..She had such a bad latch because of her tiny little mouth I had little scabs on the end of my nipple for the first week. And she nursed constantly. Every hour for like 40 minutes so I had about 20 minutes between feedings in the first week...it was ridiculous. Glad she is finally a normal eater now! haha

Merry - posted on 09/07/2011

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So is she your first? I don't remember if you had kids already.....how's breastfeeding going? I had a tough start both times but got SO easy after a month or so :) seemed forever!

[deleted account]

THANK YOU! I had a beautiful experience. I went in not wanting any medication or interventions and I basically got everything I wanted. Only had an IV. But I could take the IV with me if I wanted to get up. Plus I got to stay home for as long as I could (Well I wasn't at home..I actually labored at my grandmas, at the grocery store, and at the pond right out side the hospital...haha) so by the time I was in the hospital I didn't feel like getting up anyway so I didn't mind the IV.

Anyway it all went super fast. The doctor didn't make it in time. When he was called I was already fighting the urge to push. He got there very quick but not quick enough. My nurse was shaking as bad as I was. Everyone was very impressed with my ability to have my baby basically all by myself and with no medication. My doctor said "I was just trying not to wreck on the way over here, but next time I'll drive faster!" lol.

Her name is Isabella Rain Nichols born August 12th at 12:59 AM. I'm going to put her picture as my profile pic as soon as I get them on the computer. She is so beautiful, has lots of dark hair!

Merry - posted on 09/07/2011

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Congratulations Randie! What's her name!?!
I'm glad you didn't have to confront your husband, I changed my mind in the hospital and started crying but matt just hugged me and said you decided this already and this is just your hormones going off. I wish I had put my foot down but I'm glad you didn't have to!

Delia - posted on 09/06/2011

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Yep Randie, a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case, the sound effects merely add to it. My oldest was circumcised, and my youngest is not. I feel good about having gotten informed and having the support of my circumcised husband to leave our baby boys penis healthy - the way they all grow naturally.

[deleted account]

ps...I really can't bare the thought of having another one for another 5 years at least...so no worries...I have plenty of time to come up with the perfect argument.

[deleted account]

So Im back finally...I had my baby (who's sex was unknown until now!) It was a girl!!!! I really wanted a boy...but seriously after spending that first day with her I am so glad I have another girl.

Plus...I wasn't ready to argue with my husband about circumcising. Deep down I don't want to do it...and I know my husband does (he is circ'd) . So if it turned out to be a boy I had a plan to save him from having to do it and avoid any arguments with my husband. I was going to just break down crying at the hospital and just tell him I couldn't go threw with it and hopefully he would feel sorry for me and calmly agree to not go threw with it also. haha...well I'm glad I had a girl! situation avoided....for now. Hope I can find a way to get threw to him before I get pregnant again with a boy.

[deleted account]

Just so you know that video is very hard to watch. I actually got sick to my stomach..literally...I had to put my head down on the desk for a minute to get the feeling to go away.

Emma - posted on 08/09/2011

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When we had our son i was so ignorant on this topic. Thankfully my hubby was not and my son is 100% intact.
I would of had a life time of guilt if in my ignorance i had let some doctor trying to pad his bill mutilate my sons genitals.
knowing what i now do as i have spent allot of time researching and talking to men who have been cut from birth, got cut as adults and who are intact.
I can not believe that we still let this mutilation go on.

Merry - posted on 08/04/2011

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Laura, I found somewhere that said trauma to the penis can cause a curve, so if he gets kicked there really hard it can mess it up....
Sorry about saying 'third world' lol I didn't mean it derogatorily.

Isobel - posted on 08/04/2011

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third world has been renamed "undeveloped nations" as opposed to developing or developed nations. (I don't know if you'll like it any better but third world actually isn't the term anymore.

I'm curious though about curved penises that are not circumcised...I'll have to look that one up.

Amy - posted on 08/04/2011

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um..you probably won't find studied like that from many third world [why do people say that? i hate that term. like we're some superior class of people. bs]...anyway. Most of europe doesn't circumcise.

my husband is circed. he even decided it's not something he wants done to his son. why cut up your kid unless medically necessary?

insurance companies have it right: it's purely cosmetic unless something is WRONG with it. because being born like that - nothing's wrong with most penises.

User - posted on 08/04/2011

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like i said on another post i don't agree with it unless
there's a reason for it, my son had to have it as he had alot of health issues and was in alot of pain.
I think it disgusting that people can put a newborn through something like that!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry - posted on 08/02/2011

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Well the men who have foreskin restoration surgery obviously aren't happy their moms cut off a part of their penis.
Sorry, I just think moms should protect their babies when possible from pain and when the dad wants cosmetic surgery on his infant the mom should be able to step in and say no.
Most men don't care if they are or aren't. Most men think their penis is the 8th wonder of the world!
But a few intact men want to be cut, and a few cut men wish they weren't! Difference is the cut men can't really fix it easily or well. Intact men can always get cut if they really hate their foreskin so badly
Just ask men in other countries if they like their intact penises I bet they would say yes since circ is very rare in many countries!
And no, the deaths are not in 3rd world countries. It's here in the USA. Dr. Stork on 'the doctors' mentioned 250 boys die every year from circumcision. Usually from bleeding going unnoticed in between diaper changes, sometimes from shock, sometimes from blood clots, sometimes from misdiagnosed SIDS.

I think it boils down to the simple fact that no health organization recommends it, it isn't worth it.

Jaime - posted on 08/02/2011

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Laura you show me the hundreds of cases where babies have died from having a circumcision done? And don't give me stuff from 3rd world countries which is where most of you mothers are getting your information.

I do not think it is the WOMEN'S place to say whether a guy doesn't like it or not. I have asked every male in my family and they ALL tell me they are glad it was done...so that was my decision making. My husband's father even had it done as an adult.

Dana - posted on 08/02/2011

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ROFLMFAO



Stephanie "If you wanna act like a rabid female dog in heat"...



Uh, that would be you, sweetheart, acting like a rabid dog in heat. Clearly you can't type out a post without acting juvenile.





As I've stated, I look at all angles of this argument and try to keep it fair and just, without acting like a total reject, scarring people off like an extremist, anti-circumcision, dumb ass who doesn't know wtf she's talking about. I think it's detrimental to the cause to make statements like Laura's (no offense to you Laura) that can be seen from either circumcised men or uncircumcised men. People who are still on the fence about it are going to blow off what's she's said because you CAN see that in either cases and then they'll be less apt to listen to things that really do matter.



For the record, I didn't circumcise my son, he was born without his foreskin besides a tiny part of it that was used for his reconstruction of hypospadius. I'm also currently pregnant with a boy, who will not be circumcised either. I just don't feel the need to cram my personal opinions down people's throats.

Merry - posted on 08/02/2011

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Yup because a baby can't tell us how badly they hurt. Imagine having surgery and only getting Tylenol after!
It's far worse to take a scalpel to a newborn then it is to a consenting adult.
In some countries they cut on their babies faces patterns to make scars on them. They do this to babies.we would consider this mutilation but to them it's simply the way they always do it.
Fact is, circ is cosmetic surgery at worst and preventative surgery at best. Either way it's pretty crummy to cut on your newborn.
And even if it could prevent something down the road why risk the risks of circ toorevent the possible risks of foreskin?
No one dies from a properly cared for foreskin but hundreds of babies die from circumcision.
Imo thats a case closed.

Jaime - posted on 08/01/2011

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Jodie, it is harder for older children and grown men to have the procedure because we don't heal as fast. Newborns heal at a much faster rate - everyone needs to stop comparing a child or adult having this done to a newborn having it done....because its a totally different situation.

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