10 Reasons Why Being Gay is WRONG!!!

Sara - posted on 03/02/2010 ( 333 moms have responded )

9,313

50

584

01) Being gay is not natural.
♥ And real Americans always reject unnatural things like polyester, and air conditioning, tattoos, piercings


02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay,
♥in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.


03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior.
♥People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.


04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all;
♥Hence why women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.


05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed;
♥And we can't let the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage be destroyed.


06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children.
♥So therefore, gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our population isn't out of control, our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.


07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children,
♥Since of course straight parents only raise straight children.


08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion.
♥In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.


09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home.
♥ Which is exactly why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.


10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms.
♥Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

333 Comments

View replies by

Rachel - posted on 03/26/2010

202

36

5

Ok i'm probably going to cop a bashing for this but here i go. I believe that religion is only a way for ppl to be cntrolled, i believe that religion was only ever invented to control ppl. I believe that religions are just colts trying there hardest to make ppl conform to there way of thinking, this in my opinion is BRAINWASHING. And y cant ppl ever debate a topic without having to bring the word of "god" into it, seriously has anyone ever met this man who we are supposed to believe in???? My guess would be no. I cant stand it when ppl turn everything into a relgious debate because they have been that brainwashed by there religion that they dont have an opinion that is actualy there's they can only quote the bible.

I have no interest in going to repent for my sins to a man who i have never ever met and that i will never ever meet, i have asked god for his help many times in my life and guess what he never came and helped me, and dont go giving me this crap that he gave me the strength to deal with it because he did'nt, i did'nt deal with the fact that i was raped, beaten and sodomised by one of his children who was supposed to be my father, it did'nt help me at all to talk to him throgh prayer and ask him to make my father stop. Now according to all of those that live by the word of god, if my father repents for his sins then he will be forgiven for rapeing,beating and sodomising me, my sister and my mother and he will be allowed to go to heaven instead of hell (which is where he should go), well then i guess i want to be imortal because i never want to be around a bunch of sick fucks like my father and if all the abusers of this world repent and are forgiven then heaven is gunna be filled with sick twisted ppl. As i have said many times to my friends who believe in god that when i die i cant go to heaven because all of the sick twisted ppl who have repented for their sins will be there and hell wont have me cause there afraid that i will take over lol, so i guess i'm gunna be here on this earth forever.

Now with that being said let me get back to the original topic, all ppl have the right to love who they chose and who they hell are any of us to tell them there wrong, i hope that homosexual marriages will be legalised because they are humans and they are his children to so y should they be condemmed for who they love, and y should they have to deal with the shit from bible bashing ppl who think that it goes against the word of god to love someone who is the same sex. Now i would just like to no how all of the religious ppl would feel if the roles were reversed and being homosexual was the norm and anyone who wanted to love and get married to somone of the opposite sex was told that it's not legal, it's wrong it's discusting and that they are going against the word of god and before u can marry that person u have to fight for equal rights just to marry the person u love?????????? Would you like it, would u just settle for a defacto relationship or would you want to push for your rights to love somone of the opposite sex????

?? - posted on 03/26/2010

4,974

0

171

Rules of religion lol just that alone makes me contemplate the legitimacy of [some] people's "faith" -- is it really faith in God when you're just... following rules... that [no one can deny] were ultimately written by the hand of man? Pick and choose, back and forth, interpret today in different ways that they did years ago, re-written by more men and continue to ignore the facts and truths of people today... as these religious conversations come forth, more and more I find less and less reality, truth and love in religion.



Not all religious people think about anything the same way... just like not all non-religious people think the same way... so we have people who think we're born sinners, people who don't, people who believe god exists, and people who don't, and we're still left with millions of people who are born and outcast because of something that no one can fully agree on lol



At the end of the day, to me, it really seems redonkulous for anyone to put that much effort into something that causes the destruction of so many people's lives, not to mention all the people who live happy, healthy, wonderful lives as homosexuals, but still have to deal with even a lil bit of hurt, just cause they're gay. Regardless of the reason -- the bible, their parents, the weather, whatever -- it doesn't really matter.



I'll also say that I feel the same way about people who get teased / tormented / out casted / hated for having freckles, having buck teeth, having big ears, being extra hairy, having big feet, being little people or giant people and all the other natural features people are just born with and can not choose.



We have the ability to be better than that, and there's people that choose not to be. I think it's sad and one of humanity's biggest flaws -- we're so insecure and scared of ourselves that we have to make ourselves feel better, more important, more signifigant by picking on things we don't (want too) understand. We have things like the bible that stroke that ego and keep those insecurities in check and allowing people an out, from having to try and understand.



"Ignorance is bliss."



I don't think we'll ever recover from the damage that religion has done to our race.

Rosie - posted on 03/26/2010

8,657

30

315

i think there is proof that he doesn't exist. has anybody seen him, anybody talk to him recently? anybody actually seen him do all the wonderful things that you give him credit for? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! however, i do understand the concept of faith.



i'd also like to address missionaries. many people in my family are missionairies. 3 of my cousins are currently missionaries and my uncle is a pastor. i find a huge difference between jehovahs witnesses, or a christian who comes to my house to spead the word, than someone who goes to different countries where this information isn't available to them. they feel like these people have no chance if they aren't informed about god. as silly as that seems to me, and others, i don't believe that they are doing any harm or irritating these people.



i think when jo said this, she made a HUGE point:



Just like Brittney asked, "what do you have to lose by believing in God"... what are you going to lose by believing that homosexuality is natural? It's not going to affect your relationship with God... [most people] already decide which parts of the bible suit them... it doesn't mean you're going to suddenly turn gay and want to have sex with someone of the same sex... so what would be lost by accepting homosexuality as natural?



you already accept that people lie over and over and over again right? in your mind you aren't going to be punished for other peoples behavior, so what do you have to lose as long as you're not doing the action yourself?

Dana - posted on 03/26/2010

11,264

35

489

Could be Esther. I've got friends that are great people. I was having a conversation with them about their new church. They said it was more liberal than most. I said I might have to check it out because I couldn't stand most church's stances on homosexuals. They told me that they themselves believe that homosexuals are possessed. /:) WTF is that?? I lost A LOT of respect for them at that point. It's COMPLETELY insane. ARGH!! lol, Church's and homosexuality is a big pet peeve of mine, if you can't tell. lol

Dana - posted on 03/26/2010

11,264

35

489

Not all religious people think we're born sinners though. lol



Can't you keep up with all these insane rules of religion Jo?

Esther - posted on 03/26/2010

3,513

32

144

I'm guessing it would be more that they think that the Devil has confused them to the point where they do believe that they were born gay, they're just wrong and they need to pray their way out of it.

?? - posted on 03/26/2010

4,974

0

171

According to those same people, we're all born sinners.



Does that mean no one's word is trustworthy? lol

Dana - posted on 03/26/2010

11,264

35

489

Well Krista, being around religious people my whole life, I'd imagine they'd say. "Well, how can we trust what those sinner's have to say". Stupid and disgusting, I know.

?? - posted on 03/26/2010

4,974

0

171

Dana, I removed your name from the post cause my thoughts were coming from what you had said but I wasn't directing what I was saying AT you lol or at Mary either...



I think the rest of my previous post(s) does explain what I was saying and what I mean well enough and if it doesn't, I'm not too sure how else I can explain it? lol

Krista - posted on 03/26/2010

12,562

16

842

Jo has an excellent point. It's really rather bizarre that there are so many people who still insist that being gay is a choice, when you have ACTUAL GAY PEOPLE who will attest over and over again that it is not.

Dana - posted on 03/26/2010

11,264

35

489

Jo, I'm really confused by what you're saying. I'm not sure what being gay and whether there is a God or not has to do with each other. lol Maybe because you put my name in there saying it's not directed just at me, has got me confused too.

I believe in evolution, I don't know whether there is or is not a God or a higher being. Someone made the first damn atom. I think people are born gay and I don't think it's a sin either.

Lisamarie - posted on 03/26/2010

715

26

108

Dana, sorry, I did think after I wrote it that it didn't make much sense! LOL. What I meant was basically what Jo was saying about christian's believing the "word of god" (that being gay is a lifestyle choice) over human beings telling them that it isn't. Surely through these "real people" (not god) christians can see that the bible is a lie? Something we can prove? Does that make sense? lol.

Esther - posted on 03/26/2010

3,513

32

144

I just want to post this from the sermon I linked to before. Brittney - IF one of your kids does turn out to have been born gay - maybe this could be a way for you to look at it, at least then (if not now):



"[ ] Why do I say this, when it is patently obvious that the scriptures hold homosexuality up for censure? That would be true, but we cannot presume that what the bible writers have in mind when they condemn homosexuality is the same thing that we have before us today. Indeed, the word homosexual is only 100 years old, and reflects an understanding that developed after the advent of psychoanalysis by Sigmund Freud. One of the things that the inestimable scholar John Boswell made clear in his very careful research is that understandings about homosexuality have changed radically in the last 1000 years. In short, I think the biblical writers presumed that all people were born heterosexual; Today, the best research, and it is in its early stages to be sure, suggests that our sexual orientation is given to us on a range of possibility, from exclusively homosexual to exclusively heterosexual. This was beyond the purview of the biblical writers. Thus in response to the homosexual community, I think, in this case, for this time, we should look to what Jesus would do.



Let me unpack this a bit more. This text that Ginger read this morning from Leviticus is one of the 2 texts in the Old Testament that directly condemns homosexuality. We must make a couple of contextual notes about the text. First, it is an odd collection of things that are condemned here. But the punishment is stoning ‘let their blood be upon them’. Sounds serious. I want you parents and teens to note that ‘cursing your parents’ is on the list (That’s Leviticus 20). Why stoning? Because the sin here is idolatry. This is one of the speeches set as something Moses gave before going over to the land of the Canaanites. And the message is ‘you are not to follow after the ways of them, lest you follow after their gods. The Rabbi’s use this chapter unto the present, but it is never in reference to homosexuality as such. It is in the dangers of intermarriage. Jewish mothers then, like now were convinced that the world would come to an end if their sons married a Goyim. ‘Find yourself a Jewish girl.’



And then there is ‘abomination’? What do you think of when you think of abomination? Sounds bad. Actually, the word ‘toevah’ is not usually something which is immoral so much as it is not kosher. Lobster is an abomination. Hot Pastrami on Rye is an abomination. Sleeping with a woman during menstruation was an abomination. So was the misuse of incense, mishandling a sacrifice, and adultery with a cultic prostitute.



Why is homosexuality in this list? Scholars believe that it is in reference to cult prostitution that the Canaanites practiced. What was this? We can’t be sure. Earlier scholars believed that Canaanite fertility religion used sexuality in a sacramental way. The ancient people believed that the god Mat died in the winter and was resurrected in the Spring. It was in the spring that the gods began to copulate which caused the earth to flower forth with new blooms and stimulated the animals to breed. It was believed that farmers took religious prostitutes and copulated on their fields to ensure a good harvest. As one of my students at Rutgers commented, ‘No wonder people went to church back then.’ Lately, scholars have taken the suggestion that prostitution was never exactly part of the religion as such. Rather, during the high festival days (like unto our Christmas and New Years), people would gather in the big cities at the Temples to make their vow and participate in the Religious service. Then, as now, there was a great deal of carousing during these festivals and people were prone to fulfill their lust. (Just think of that leer some of your colleagues and friends get in their eye during the proverbial Christmas party). People who did not have the money to pay their vow, regularly engaged in prostitution to raise the money, and the practice was so regular that it became intimately associated with the Pagan religious festivals. This is likely. What a relief to know that the Canaanites weren’t having any more fun than the Israeli’s.



Obviously, this kind of sex – either kind – is impersonal, degrading, uses another human as an instrument for pleasure. We would still say, perhaps, that it is idolatrous, since it leads you away from authentic spirituality which has to do with covenant, love, faithfulness, caring, sharing, upbuilding others, etc.. I just want to point out that this is a far cry from two committed, monogamous, equal partners who are asking for a recognition of their love for one another. And this is even a farther cry from them, as individuals, simply being asked to be accepted for who they are without malice or hatred."

?? - posted on 03/26/2010

4,974

0

171

There isn't proof that it doesn't exist and that is the whole idea of faith. I can accept people believing in something else, I can respect people beleiving in God and the afterlife, because I don't know, I have just as much "faith" in the idea that there is nothing after, as people have faith that there is something after.



What bothers me, what I can't accept - and that's probably not even the right word - what I can't understand is that there are people sitting right here saying;



I did not choose to be gay. I am gay.



So regardless of whether or not that spirit did exist, does exist or if you have faith that God does exist -- why deny something that *IS* right here?



Why not accept that the men who wrote the bible, wrote that part wrong -- especially when so many people pick and choose what parts of the bible they're going to follow anyways and how they want to interpret it at any given situation -- why not learn, grow, accept and move forward with the world we live in today?



Just like Brittney asked, "what do you have to lose by believing in God"... what are you going to lose by believing that homosexuality is natural? It's not going to affect your relationship with God... [most people] already decide which parts of the bible suit them... it doesn't mean you're going to suddenly turn gay and want to have sex with someone of the same sex... so what would be lost by accepting homosexuality as natural?



(I think) it will result in a happier, more loving and beautiful place for everyone to live.



And that isn't directed at anyone particular really, it's just my line of thinking and why it's so hard for me to accept.



But I will say, Brittney, I don't hate god.. I just don't think god exists. I can't hate something that I don't even believe exists lol now that really would be a lil skitzo :P

Dana - posted on 03/26/2010

11,264

35

489

Lisamarie, What do you mean when you say

No, but there is proof, through homosexual and bisexual people that the bible is not based on FACT.

Krista - posted on 03/26/2010

12,562

16

842

Brittney, I have to take exception to this:



What about what a gay child would do to their parent. What about how we feel?? We become the bad guy b/c they choose that lifestyle?!!!?




1. Being gay is not a choice. There are many scientifically sound studies that show actual differences in brain activity between gay people and straight people. Some of these studies were done on children, many of whom were never even exposed to the idea of being gay.

2. I find it rather cruel of you to imply that gay people are deliberately hurting their parents. Like I said, I have several gay friends, and some of them did receive bad reactions from their parents when they came out. They feel incredibly sad about this, and would have done anything to have avoided hurting their parents. But when you go through life feeling like you are living a lie, and it is eating you up inside, you can only suppress who you are for so long.

3. It's not ABOUT you. It's not ABOUT the parent and how they feel. Our children are separate, autonomous human beings with their own feelings, ambitions, beliefs and yes, sexual orientation. Any child who makes the very difficult decision to come out to his or her parents is already going through an emotional roller-coaster. I think that it would be unfair and selfish for a parent to then start going on about how it's affecting THEM. Our kids have to make their own way in life towards their own happiness, and should not be hindered or held back by our emotional needs, religious hang-ups or by parental-induced guilt trips.

4. No, you do not become the bad guy because they chose that lifestyle. You become the bad guy when you assume that your kid chose to be gay, when you talk about how much it hurts YOU instead of providing emotional support to them, and when use your faith to try to make your child feel guilty and awful simply for being honest about who they are. THAT is when you become the bad guy.

Lisamarie - posted on 03/26/2010

715

26

108

No, but there is proof, through homosexual and bisexual people that the bible is not based on FACT. I believe in something, I believe in ghosts/spirits, I do NOT believe a word of the bible. There is no proof that god exists, there is no proof god does not exist.

But like Laureen said, if a schizophrenic was seeing things, there would be no proof that he was telling the truth but also no proof he was lying, so why should he then be institutionalised because of what he says he sees and believes but *certain* (no-one here intended) christians think it's OK to spread "gods word" which in all honesty could be that of a schizophrenic and nobody sees the harm in this?!

I do genuinly want to thank you, Brittney, because although I do not agree with your religous views you have really helped me to understand it more and I really appreciate that. :)

[deleted account]

Jo, but he DOES know you, he created you. That's what I believe !!! When I say "harder road" ...I mean the less "popular road" b/c for me it's not hard to believe in my heavenly father :) I find so much peace in Jesus, and he comforts me on a daily basis :)



The "choice" is where we differ, yes. B/c I believe that God made man to be w/ a woman, and a woman to be w/ a man. In the Garden of Eden he gave Adam, Eve a woman, not a man. He talks no where in the bible that he made anyone to be w/ the same sex. And if that makes you hate God for that reason that's a shame. B/c he loves you no matter what as long as you allow him into your life and repent. But I think thats the issue for you is "why should you repent when you feel you aren't doing anything wrong" am I right? But I guess if you don't believe in God or the bible you won't understand why I believe what I do. I'm by no means saying you are bad person, I just happen to disagree w/ you. You seem like a wonderful mother and are very caring towards others :) I too wish you the best in life :) God Bless

Mary - posted on 03/26/2010

3,348

31

119

Why would you want to believe something you can never have any proof of, over something that we can prove and that I can tell you is truth and thousands of people can prove and tell you is truth?




In a way, you answered your own question.

Faith is believing in something of which there is no definitive proof.

I'm not arguing for or against here, but I accept the concept of faith, be it in regards to religion, nature, the supernatual, or whatever.

For the most part, Christians do not need, nor necessarily seek proof of God's existence. They take it on faith alone...any "proof" would just be icing on the cake.

Dana - posted on 03/26/2010

11,264

35

489

Jo, we only have proof of evolution. That's it. There isn't proof that their isn't a God or a higher being. Their isn't proof that our "spirit" doesn't exist.

[deleted account]

And when I die, and when I'm gone,
There'll be one child born
In this world to carry on,
to carry on.
I love these words of Blood Sweat and Tears - they convey the finality of dying with the feeling of continuing through history!

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

I guess I see it more simply then. My brain isn't wired that way lol



I am sitting here telling you, human to human, woman to woman, that my love, desire and attraction to Keye [a woman] is as natural as to Devon [a man] and I didn't choose her or him any more than I chose to have blue eyes, have small feet, brown hair and be born a girl... and you choose to believe the word of someone that doesn't know me, someone you've never spoken too, someone you've never seen and have no way of knowing whether they truly exist.... over someone that is [technically] right in front of you telling you right now as we speak....



It just seems ... soooo .... I don't even know ! It's hard for me to accept that :-s



I will have to leave it as that because it's so mind boggling lol its a never ending cycle of throwing that word "choice" around. I guess if my side of it was a choice, I could understand... but to me, you're the only one that is choosing anything, and to me you're choosing to believe the wrong person.



I do wish you happiness ( and I hope that your children are honestly and truthfully heterosexual forever lol ) because when you say that you've "picked the harder road w/ no proof" you've picked the harder road for many things that are all natural in this world and I wish you and yours well with that harder road :)

Charlie - posted on 03/25/2010

11,203

111

401

No that's OK , we all have our views and beliefs on the world , i take my spirituality from nature and science , i believe the world and universe work on energies , i believe a mans sperm and a woman's egg creates babies , i bet that sounds strange to you ( not the sperm / egg bit i figure you know that ) , probably as strange as following the bible does to me :)



I am glad you are at peace with your beliefs , this is exactly what i mean by it being a good thing for some people .

[deleted account]

Jo, b/c I know that GOD exisit, regardless of proof. It's through my faith that I have the proof I need. God knows all, not man !!! Why wouldn't I believe in the word of the God who created me? Man didn't create me. I've picked the harder road w/ no proof, but that's the road I'm at peace w/. "blessed are those who believeth in him, yet have not seen him".

I don't feel like I'm avoiding your question. I'm answering it w/ my honest belief and opinion.



Loureen, srry you feel that way :(

Charlie - posted on 03/25/2010

11,203

111

401

This might sound worse than i actually mean it too , and i do respect your right your religion , really i do but the quote "Yes man physically wrote the bible but the holy spirit told them what to write. So it wasn't man's ideas...."

Really immediately screams of schizophrenia in modern day terms, i do believe in the spirit world and that some people can communicate through it , but in this day and age if a person said they were told to do the things that are now known as " the word of god " the would most certainly be institutionalized , how are we certain that there haven't been updates from "god" since the bible if we now sedate patients from these voices , would you believe if a random person professed to hear the "voice of god " .



It is what is described as the bicameral mind in which cognitive functions are divided between one part of the brain which appears to be "speaking", and a second part which listens and obeys , Rather than making conscious evaluations in novel or unexpected situations, the person would hallucinate a voice or "god" giving admonitory advice or commands, and obey these voices without question; one would not be at all conscious of one's own thought processes per se.



Thats just my view and opinion on the man manual called the bible .



Just wanted to add that i am glad that various religions give hope and faith to those who need it , it certainly can be a beautiful thing when used correctly !

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

I hate to be a parrot, but I have to repeat...





Why would you want to believe something you can never have any proof of, over something that we can prove and that I can tell you is truth and thousands of people can prove and tell you is truth?





Your answers avoid the question, and I would really truly appreciate an honest answer :)

[deleted account]

Well that's great if that is what makes you happy :) I guess we can both agree we are happy ....haha:) I believe in perserving the earth as well, God wants us to take care of the earth he created. Someone who believes they should just destroy the earth, is wrong and not doing as God wants:/ Obviously heaven is a better place b/c there is no more murder, lies, cheating etc...... And of course there are still memories after your dead to those who love you. Everyone has memories, but not everyone just stays in the ground. My spirit will be w/ Jesus and I will then have my final body :) But until then I will contine to preserve this earth, treat others w/ kindess, help the needy, and rejoice w/ my children :)

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

Yep I believe that when we die, we go back to where we came from. Into the earth. We become worm food and that we 'live on' through the people we've touched while we're here. My life is far from feeling hopeless. My life is full of wonderful memories, beautiful adventures and it continues to amaze me everyday, and it will continue too, until I die and I go into the earth and my children get to continue to live on this beautiful earth until they die.



Everyday is special because tomorrow could be the last day that we get so spend with everyone that we love here on earth.



My belief leaves me feeling free... it lets me have passion in this life, it lets me feel like I'm exhausting every single ounce of energy I possess making THIS WORLD, the world that I KNOW exists, a better place for myself, for the people I love, for the people that my loved ones love... for everyone and everything.



Granted there's more I COULD do, I COULD recycle more, I could not eat meat, I could live off the land, etc etc etc - of course there are faults and I am a hypocrite to some extent because I honestly believe that EVERY SINGLE living organism on this planet deserves the entire world to enjoy... but I still hinder that in different ways and I am a moderate abuser of our own 'progression', our laziness and the convenience of modern world... but, there are things that I do that many people don't do, those people who believe that God has a beautiful place waiting for us and Jesus will save us and all the stories the bible explains -- many of them abuse our planet and our people and our babies and our cultures and everything that is beautiful in this world for their own purposes with no thought or guilty conscious of any of it simply because this world is just a shit hole that they have to endure until Jesus saves them and forgives them and they go onto their heavenly world...



I don't believe that 'you just die and that's it.' That's it for our physical bodies on this earth, but memories and stories are forever to the people that they matter too -- and I think you can agree with that, considering the story you believe in is one of the longest running stories ;)

[deleted account]

Because I have peace w/ that !!! I have peace in my soul that what I believe through faith is true. I don't need proof to know God exisits b/c I feel him everywhere. I've witnessed miracles and seen first hand the amazing works he has done :)



What does someone like yourself believe when you die, where do you go??

Do you just lay underground and life is just over?? Why would you want to believe that's

all there is? Doesn't that make you feel hopeless, knowing there is no other place but here. I would be depressed if I believe you just died and that was it.

B/c the place that I believe in (heaven) is a beautiful, happy, and sinless place

where we become pure and live w/ our savior.

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

Yes man physically wrote the bible but the holy spirit told them what to write. So it wasn't man's ideas....




Man physically wrote the bible and it would be man who spread the story that it was the holy spirit that told him what to write - so you would still have to trust mans word that it is the word of God...



When it could very well have just been, the word of man. A man or a few men who knew the power of word and the gullible, naive, and ever trusting need of their fellow man who so craved something more to believe in...



My point is that you're choosing to believe the word of man, from thousands of years ago, because there is a possibility (that can not ever be proven) that God told them to write it -- instead of choosing to believe the word of men and women everyday, today, telling you right now, without any doubt that word of God, written by man, with the Holy Spirit, is wrong.



Why would you want to believe something you can never have any proof of, over something that we can prove and that I can tell you is truth and thousands of people can prove and tell you is truth?

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

I don't doubt that you are a great mother to your heterosexual children.



Being homosexual is not a choice and it is not a lifestyle. It is no different than being born with blue eyes and blond hair. It is no different than growing up to be 6'1 or 5'2, have size 5 feet or size 13 feet. There is no choice in those things and there is NO CHOICE in being homosexual.



When you can accept that fact, that it is only YOU who is making a choice, then I will no longer feel sadness for any child who is homosexual and when they are no longer faced with "killing their mothers heart" for being who they are then I will stop feeling badly for those children.



I'm sorry that it hurts you to hear me say that, but just as you say you can not change how you feel about homosexuals, I can not change how I feel about parents who would ever feel that their child is "killing their heart" just because they decide to be open and free and happy with who they are.

[deleted account]

Yes man physically wrote the bible but the holy spirit told them what to write. So it wasn't man's ideas. That is what I believe.....so we may just have to agree to disagree.



Now when you say

"You say that you would love your own child if they were homosexual but it would kill your heart? That is so brutal and so sad. That makes me hurt for you and your children and all of the children in the world who have parents that feel that way. I can not imagine telling my son "I love you. But you have killed my heart, for being who you are." Talk about destroying a child from the inside out. It makes me so sad to read that. That disappointment and that unyielding pain that a child receives from a parents dismissal is what needs to be ridden from this world. It's heart breaking to know children, teenagers, adults, anyone has to face that kind of attitude from anyone - especially someone who says they feel people who deny God, deny love."



This is where I might get a little angered b/c no one is going to tell me that I woludn't really be loving my child. It actually made me cry that you would say such a thing to me. I love my children more than my own life, and would die for them. What about what a gay child would do to their parent. What about how we feel?? We become the bad guy b/c they choose that lifestyle?!!!? If there is one thing I ask from you, please don't tell me that you feel bad for my children, b/c I'm a great mother, and love them more than words can express and always will.

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

So you are trusting the word of man then Brittney?



You say it's with no proof but that you believe the disciples wrote the bible with the holy spirit. You're trusting those men who wrote the bible, that their words are believable enough that you would allow what they right to be the center of your world.



It would be men who wrote the bible and it would be men who told the story and it would be men who said that they are God's disciples and that the holy spirit helped them write the bible, write the word of God... but... if religion is man made, the bible is written by man, it would be mans word that you are trusting -- before the word of God -- you would have to trust those men who wrote the bible that they weren't just making it up with the intention of having that power.



We all know the power of fear and judgment and the unknown of the end of life can have over any individual. Humans NEED to know, we have insecurities and we have a natural craving for comfort and attention and to feel important and to feel special and our ego's can't take the idea that we're nothing and that we don't have some greater purpose in life.



You would have to trust that they weren't just jacked up on some sort of special juice (wink wink) and "the holy spirit" wasn't just some imaginary something in the air (wink wink) and you ultimately you would have to trust that their word is the correct interpretation of "the holy spirit" and what God's word really was.........



You're trusting mans word, before following God's word, you would have to put your heart and soul in believing those men and what they wrote is legitimate and honest and the word of God. It's still in man that you would have to put your trust, before anything else.



So, ultimately, you can put trust in yourself and your own heart. You can believe that homosexuals are not sinners, they are human beings who want to live life and be happy and be accepted just like any other Harry, Sally, John or Betty. You can believe that because here I am, and I am telling you that as a woman who has loved another woman the same as I love a man now that IS all that we want. There are THOUSANDS of men and women around the world who will tell you that, tell you their stories. Why is it that the word of men thousands of years ago deserve more credibility to you than the words of the thousands of people who will tell you TODAY that "the word of God" is NOT RIGHT.



You say that you would love your own child if they were homosexual but it would kill your heart? That is so brutal and so sad. That makes me hurt for you and your children and all of the children in the world who have parents that feel that way. I can not imagine telling my son "I love you. But you have killed my heart, for being who you are." Talk about destroying a child from the inside out. It makes me so sad to read that. That disappointment and that unyielding pain that a child receives from a parents dismissal is what needs to be ridden from this world. It's heart breaking to know children, teenagers, adults, anyone has to face that kind of attitude from anyone - especially someone who says they feel people who deny God, deny love.







As for the missionaries... I'm talking about the bush people that have been living off the land for decades and then suddenly there's some American standing there going PRAISE GOD I HAVE ARRIVED. Not people who go to poverty ridden countries and bring them medical supplies. I doubt those people are all that happy but they don't need / care about your God, they just want to be happy, living this life. But then again, I'm not a lil Ethiopian kid and if I was starving with no fresh water I'd probably tell the lil American chick with her bible whatever she wanted to hear so that she'd give me some food and water...



I don't watch much TV but I've seen some stats on those Christian funds for children in disadvantaged countries and I think my money would be better put to use if I saved it up and went over myself bring a ton of bread and water along with me. Granted I don't know exactly how much of every dollar goes to the children / countries that need help for EVERY christian organization -- but again -- man needs to be paid too so I doubt my money would be going to those children but rather to the organization so that they can film those commercials...



Just to clarify - I say American, I know there are Canadians and Europeans and other people that do it too - I mean American as North American, not United States of America American lol

[deleted account]

Jo, I would absolutely listen to their beliefs, w/o a doubt!!!! How do you know these ppl in low poverty countries are good and happy?? Most missionaries go to supply medical help, helping the sick, doing surgeries. I worked for doctors that went to hondorous and did over 15 surgeries a day. Do you think that had time to speak God's word every mintue, no. They were busy saving lives and trying to heal these ppl w/ their own human capibilities. And haven't you seen the christian organization on tv that helps feed the hungry children in Africia, to say that christians aren't helping in a geniue way, is a bit hurtful.



I answered your one question w/o my beliefs above.....lol. I can't keep God out of my thoughts b/c he so much apart of my life, Jo.

[deleted account]

Kathy, I just seen your post as I went back up. I think that God may send ppl to them, not quite sure. I've often thought about that. I think that is why God gave us our number one mission in life to spread his word, b/c many may not know his name or have been forbidden to learn of the christian faith. That's why I think missionaires are selfless ppl, b/c they risk their lives to tell ppl about Jesus. If your asking what I think about ppl who may die and have never heard of Jesus. Well I honestly don't know and would never judge that situation. I would have to find that in scripture.

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

So I guess you can't answer a question without relying on Gods word for an answer? lol



I don't think it's selfless to leave your life to go and disrupt people's lives who are living perfectly happy lives (although different than our own) for generations, just because they believe in something that has no proof. I think it's arrogant and disruptive and pointless and a waste of time... that could be better spent going to Africa and giving a kid some medicine, reading them a book and listening to them, instead of speaking about something that has no relevance to their life to date. If they ask you about your faith, are you as willing to listen to theirs as much as you would be willing to talk about yours?

[deleted account]

Kelly, I don't think that's how all missionaries are. Some ppl are willing to leave their safe home to help ppl in need and also spread the word of God, b/c many have never heard of Jesus Christ. I think thats being pretty selfless, don't you think. Any missions group I've ever heard of has never taken supplies and said "now you have to believe what I tell you or we give you no help" thats bogus !!!! I don't think that telling ppl about Jesus is being pushy, their just stating their beliefs, they aren't forcing ppl to believe. I want to go on a missions trip, and I would never be forceful, but I would spread God's word in a loving way. If someone wanted to accept Christ as their savior that's awesome, but if they didn't that would be their choice. I don't see any harm is spreading God's word. Kelly, you shouldn't make your faith in Jesus Christ (if that is what you so choose) be about any other christian or church, it should only be about what you want to get out of it, what you think he is telling you in your walk w/ him. You shouldn't let other chrisitans make who you are with God (if that is who you choose to follow). Do you understand where I'm coming from??



Jo your right, God didn't write the bible, his disciples did. The holy spirit helped them write God's word. But once again I believe that only by faith, no proof . Yeah know what I find so interesting is that in the bible (I'd have to find it again) but God tells us that we believers would have ppl tell us we were fools for believing something w/ no proof. He said we would go through trying and difficult times b/c we won't be popular for what we believe.

[deleted account]

That is one of the other things that bothers me about Christianity (which is annoying b/c I want so much to believe in something). When they send missionaries to these 3rd world countries their main mission is spreading their beliefs with the secondary mission of bringing health supplies, food and water. It seems to me like they are forcing the beliefs on the people of those nations by saying "Attend our classes, believe what we tell you, and spread the word to others, then we will give you the things you need to survive out here."
Is that what it's really like??

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

I agree Kathy. I think of the Spanish and British coming to North America when I think of those organisations. And to think that we tolerate that kind of conformity in this day and age...?



Sure, they don't pillage and rape the individuals in the communities like the bastards did when they demolished the natives... but they do pillage and rape the communities in general of their way of life, cultures and their own religion (whatever it may be in any given bush land situation) by sticking their religious noses in where it doesn't belong.



THAT really pisses me off. I even know of Americans that bitch and complain about how health care taxing will destroy their families... but they have the balls to send $$ to those organisations to save those unknowing savages..... PFFT. THAT I have no respect for.

Charlie - posted on 03/25/2010

11,203

111

401

Kathy , i agree !

I am deeply saddened by whole cultures and civilizations lost to people pushing their beliefs on others.

[deleted account]

I do feel, Jo, that sending missionaries to "convert" those from other cultures is pretty arrogant! I get cranky when people come to my door trying to tell me the right way to live!

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

The bible is the word of men... not the word of a god. So where does gods word come from? It comes from men, with their own agenda's, fears, expectations and desires... from thousands of years ago, living in a world that is NOTHING like todays world.

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

I agree that religion was made up by man... and writing the bible is a part of that made up story... so how do you know what God's word is if man wrote the bible and it was made up by man?

[deleted account]

Jo, let me try to answer some of your questions. No doubt we can try to make the world better, and many do try. We can do alot as humans, I'm not discrediting our capibility. There are alot of loving and caring ppl who want to help including myself. The human race has done alot to help and alot to hinder. I live in the U.S. and we have all kinds of organizations to feed the hungry or what have you. There is no doubt we can try to make it better. I didn't mean to sound like b/c of sin we will all suffer. We will to a point, but Grace will lift us from that. Do you understand where I'm coming from?? I feel we all should do go works regardless of faith, we should do good works b/c we all kow it helps others, right?



When you say.....

" I don't think he's all that amazing... he can't even look at what we have to live in, what he lets us live in, what he MADE for us to live in? That doesn't even make sense lol "

He already knows what we are going through, he is always w/ us. He doesn't allow us to live in it, we do, it's our "free will". Just like its are "free will" to live in the good times. In the beginning he made a PERFECT world, but Adam and Eve changed that world, not God. I know that you don't believe in God, so we will just have to agree to disagree on this aspect :) Do you know something though......God never made up religion, man did. B/c religion only seperates us, instead of uniting us. We get caught up on all the religion words or denominatins, instead of what he wants most, which is a relationship w/ us:) We set alot of barriers ourselves:(



On your friends note, that is very sad :( In my opinion a mother should never keep her childen from their fathers or vice versa. She was probably very hurt which I can understand, but I would always set my feelings aside and do what's right for my children.

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

Kathy, there are organizations that work by donation that send people to those places to spread the word of God and conform those people to their religion...

[deleted account]

Brittney, just getting back to your point that we have to choose Jesus in order to be saved and get into heaven, what if you're a person born into a culture (for example, one of the tribal cultures of Papua New Guinea ) who has never heard of Jesus. How can this person choose Jesus? Is he/she forever doomed strictly because of where they were born?

[deleted account]

Esther, my heart goes out to that family. How heartbroken they must have been and probably still are. But as I see it.......look at what that sin did to that family. It broke them all up into a mess. If it isn't a sin, how did it break them like that??? And trust me when I say, I'm saying this w/ the utmost respect for this family.



Yeah know Esther.....if one of my children said they were gay I would still love them unconditionally !!! Nothing will ever stop me from loving my kids, just like nothing stops God from loving us. Would it kill my heart, w/o a doubt. My heart would ache horribly, and I mean horribly. But with that said, I would still never accept their lifestyle. And they may be mad at me or hate me for it, but I don't have to agree w/ something I see as sin. I definately would have to give this situation God, and just pray that they would have a change of heart and mind.

?? - posted on 03/25/2010

4,974

0

171

I will continue to be respectful as long as it's mutual :P



I don't think you're a robot at all but it's like you have pre-recorded messages with the appropriate things to reply to whatever someone says because that's what God would want you to say.



I understand if you can't do this, but, I have ask, can you forget the lessons of God and Jesus Christ and just answer a question in your own words...? Without saying "The Bible teaches me this _____." Or anything along those lines. But just reply in a manner that addresses JUST this day, the specific situation with answers that apply to what is being discussed.



Like for instance, I know people who are brought up to believe that blacks are nobody's, and others who are brought up to believe that homosexuals are nobody's but just because they're 'taught to believe' that - it doesn't make it true, or right. And they don't answer everything with "because that's what my Mom and Dad taught me." They have a 'reason' (however pathetic and hateful it may be). It might be the 'root' of why they believe that way but they don't just rely on 'Momma says so."



An example of what I mean - your reply to Esther;



"God isn't targeting anyone that is suffering, SIN does that. He doesn't create sin, he doesn't allow us to suffer though it, SIN DOES. Until he comes again, there will pain and suffering b/c of what happened in the garden of Eden."



What is making people suffer, in this world, right now? The economy, the government, the lack of natural resources in areas, lack of medicine and education. These are all things that humans control or have control of. Now I understand that your religion gives you reason to believe that Jesus will come again and that the garden of Eden is where it all began (even if I disagree) BUT [this is my point] in this world right now, this very moment, we as humans have free will and the ability to make changes, make things happen, for better or worse. We have the resources to make things be different than they are and we also have the LACK of resources to make other things happen -- Africa for example -- we have a start on it, there are many generous organizations that do a lot of great work but it's not enough. So... instead of saying it's sin, instead of saying Jesus will come again and suffering will end etc etc etc......... we should all be focusing on the fact that we can make the changes. That there are HUMAN factors that are playing the BIGGEST ROLE in our demise or our progression as a race, as a civilization, as THINGS on this planet.



Sin doesn't control me. God doesn't control me. The Devil doesn't control me. *I* control me. I'm not TARGETTING anyone that is suffering. God isn't creating the shitstorm that our planet is going through -- humans are though. Humans in so many different ways are leading to the end of the world... all in the hopes of attempts of making it better lol



Just to clarify, I didn't say that you or anyone thinks that God makes bad things happen -- you have indicated you think sin and the devil make bad things happen and God makes good things happen. And when you say that "He can't even look at sin" if he can't look at sin, but he expects 'his earthly creatures' to live in sin, be born as sinners, to make mistakes... I don't think he's all that amazing... he can't even look at what we have to live in, what he lets us live in, what he MADE for us to live in? That doesn't even make sense lol



I have all the love in the world already, why would I want to accept that some greater being who is supposedly so amazing and ready willing and able to forgive us for the crap he lets happen.. when I can just look at the person directly in the face and know that it is THAT person that did THAT bad thing and hold them accountable for it, or look at the person directly in the face and know that it is THAT person that did THAT amazing thing and love THEM for it.



On the contrary I see relying on "God" and sin and the devil is just a way to not have to face the reality of life's ups and downs on an individual level. I can't really answer what I would lose by allowing God to have a relationship with me because I don't believe in God, so the whole idea of it is kinda like saying I should pretend to have an imaginary friend? I would lose my sanity? I don't think I'd gain anything by pretending something exists that I don't believe exists... I'm not losing any love, I have love all around me, I accept love and give love to human beings on a daily basis, I'm not denying any love because the only people I have excluded from my life are people who have hurt and not loved me.



I think people who believe in God, and purposely choose to follow his word -- in cases like homosexuality -- they are the ones who are denying love. There is so much hatred in the bible, there is so much pain and agony and hurt in the lists of sins and there are so many people who live with that pain and hurt because of people who believe those things are sins... when in all reality they're just things that happen in life and we have to deal with them.



Humans and human emotions are so elaborate that calling something a sin, excluding, dismissing and denying someone because of something that is considered a sin, I think it's dangerous and it's lacking the love in which this world CRAVES.



You say that God loves us unconditionally... why can't we love us unconditionally? We know we make mistakes... we know that bad things happen, we know that good things happen... we know enough about the human psyche and mentality and enough about how things 'work' and 'don't work'.... why are so many people still needing something 'extra' to feel like this world is worth living in and this planet worth living on and why are there so many people who feel the need to cling to these ways of the past in order to survive today?



I don't think the human race will ever be able to 'recover' from the emotional damage that religion has placed on us. We'll never have 'peace among mankind' with religion in the air and the idea that there is some person going to come rescue us from the pain and distruction that sin and the Devil has plagued us with.



The sooner we encouraged people to rid themselves of the 'follow the word of God' mentality, we could accept homosexuals as human beings.



I know you don't have the answers to these questions, and I don't expect anyone to have the answers, really. I think they are questions we all need to be confronted with at some point though and SERIOUSLY ponder them, because as much as a relationship with God could be helping you, it could also be hindering you and you don't even know it. (That is meant generally, not directed at anyone in particular.)







And I will add, after reading Esther's post, I too know people who have lost love because of the Bible. My friend recently hanged herself after years of torment because her father left her [very religious] mother for a man. Her mother made the childrens lives HELL by not allowing them to see their father, restraining orders, lies, spreading hate for their father to everyone she could, trying to ruin his life because he chose the love of a man over the misery of a loveless marriage. My friend was 25 when she passed away, her father left her mother when she was 14. For over a decade she dealt with her mothers wrath on her father. When she tried to hang herself, someone found her and she spent 5 days in hospital on life support until they shut it off. No one told her father about any of it. He had NO IDEA that his daughter was in hospital, let alone that she tried to kill herself. His mom got a phone call from a woman who worked at the school, who got a note saying that my friends mother wouldn't be in to work because her daughter passed away. He had to go to court to get legal permission from a judge to attend his own daughters funeral. This man was put through hell for over a decade by this woman, his family put through hell by this woman, his children suffered immensely because of this woman... and she had said "It wouldn't have been so bad if he had left me for a whore, but he had to leave me for an asshole instead." All because the bible told her that "fags deserve to rot in hell."

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. 5
  6. 6
  7. 7

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms