2 yr old attacked by dog after being left alone

Julia - posted on 05/24/2011 ( 81 moms have responded )

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http://www.wltx.com/news/article/137768/...

Ok here is what I am actually asking. On the facebook feed on this story we had the people who are pit bull lovers and saying that the parents were wrong and that the dog should NOT be put down because it wasn't the dogs fault. Then you had the people saying that the dog should be put down because no matter what the dog attacked a child.

Here's my stance, I hate pit bulls, once they attack they always will. The parents should be charged with neglect. Yes it is a horrible thing that they are going through right now but who in their right mind leaves a 2 yr old alone in a house for ANY period of time. The dog does need to be put down for exactly what I said before, once a dog (not just a pit bull) attacks and tastes human blood it will continue to attack. Sorry don't trust the ugly mutha fuckas...I HATE pit bull, I wish there were a stronger word to use in this instance. I will NEVER allow my children near one EVER....I don't care who owns the dog or who raised it or how long they have had it.

I deliberately DID not put the breed in the topic...because to me it doesn't matter, if my cat attacked a child that bad I would shoot the bastard myself

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Kate CP - posted on 05/24/2011

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"...Here's my stance, I hate pit bulls, once they attack they always will..."



See, that's just flat out not true. A dog may attack for so many different reasons that you can't just blanketly say that after they do it once they WILL do it again. A statement like that shows two things:

1. You have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of canine behavior.

2. You obviously don't like dogs.

Kate CP - posted on 05/24/2011

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Okay, now that I've read the story here is what I have to say.

I am a canine behaviorist and pet training instructor. I've been doing this for many many years. The parents of this child are fucking morons for letting their two year old wander around the neighborhood unsupervised. That child could just as easily have been hit by a car or abducted.

Secondly, I'm not too thrilled with the owners of the dogs. Leaving ANY dog tied up like that (especially with a FUCKING CHAIN AND A PAD LOCK) will drive the animal insane; and I do mean that literally. Should these dogs be destroyed? In my professional opinion...I don't know. I haven't evaluated the dogs and I don't know what their temperament is. From first glance I would have to say that the dog that attacked the child should be put in isolation and watched carefully. The other dog I feel should be evaluated as well. I would also be willing to wager money that neither of these animals were neutered or spayed and that can and does often add to any aggression issues.

The dogs aren't the bad guys here. It's like blaming a gun for going off. The kid shouldn't have been left alone. PERIOD.

Mary - posted on 05/25/2011

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I LOVE KATE

I'm not even sure what there is to debate here, other than Julia's obvious ignorance about a specific breed of dog.

A toddler on a trike was unsupervised, and wandered into someone else's property. The dog was on chain, and in a fenced yard. (Now, how I feel about leaving a dog in a yard unattended on a chain is whole other topic, but I'll leave that alone for now). Even the boy's mother says it is not the fault of the dog's owner. It is very clear to me that the boy's father is at fault. Who the hell leaves a two y/o alone in a house watching TV while they go to work on the roof of the house?

As for the dog...this incident has absolutely nothing to do with the breed. The dog was in his own yard, and someone(the child) invaded his territory. I also think it significant that the kid was on a bike. Many dogs are a bit freaked by bikes, and are more prone to feel threatened and become defensive when one gets to close to them. I've seen a lot of dogs, of all different breeds, get rather skittish, bark, and growl when their owners are walking them, and some stupid kid goes whizzing by too closely on a bike.

Sorry, Julia, but this isn't even remotely the dog's fault, nor is it something that can support any type of argument against the bully breeds. This was not an unprovoked attack. Perhaps we, as humans, can look at a toddler on a trike and see him as harmless, but a dog -of ANY breed- cannot reasonably be expected to make that distinction.

Jodi - posted on 05/24/2011

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Given the dog was in its OWN yard, this is NOT the dog's fault. That child had no business being in the neighbour's yard. I feel for the child, and yes, this is a genuine tragedy, but if you are not going to supervise your child sufficiently that they can go off to the neighbour's yard, then this is a parenting issue. Now firstly, you tell me, how did that child get OUT of the house? And why the fuck wasn't he being supervised? A few seconds, my arse. Not unattended, my arse. There are SO many inconsistencies in this mother's story.

Nope, not the dog's fault. I don't care what breed it is. The breed of dog has nothing to do with the debate. Any breed of dog could have done this.

Kate CP - posted on 05/24/2011

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"Quite contrary, I had Crazy a chihuahua/terrior mix and I have Sweetie my rescue puppy who is a shep mix. I love dogs as for my saying they will always attack I PERSONALLY know a kid (well when it happened he was a kid he's my age) who got attacked 3 times by the same dog before that dog was put down. That dog was HIS pit bull that HE raised from a puppy that was 10 at the time of the first attack. You go to him and tell him that pit bulls aren't vicious or that they won't continue to attack."

Wait, you're saying that every single pit bull who attacks one time will do it over and over again and you're basing this on ONE FUCKING DOG?!

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81 Comments

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I have handled lots of dogs. The hardest bites were from those badly raised fighting typers; Sharpeis, chow chows and staffs. A neighbor rescued one and they did their best, but one day it shot out the front door, across the street and tore a westie into 1000 pieces. We had blood all over us. She got loose again and I caught her, but not before she grabbed me by the flesh of my hand. Not a pit fan.



Having a pit with your children is so much like the loaded gun sitting out for them to play with.



I hope they get real and humanely euthanize the dog.

Becky - posted on 05/28/2011

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Definitely the parents' fault! A 2 year old should not be left alone in the house for any length of time. The father being up on the roof is not providing adequate supervision. I don't think the dog should be put down, although maybe he should be taken away from the owners. But I do think the parents should be investigated by children's services for neglect.

Jodi - posted on 05/27/2011

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Love that map!!

And Tracey, even people down south know not to swim in most of the rivers in the north (unless they ARE declared safe). So she must have just been an idiot. Every village has one unfortunately......Natural selection?

Sneaky - posted on 05/27/2011

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I like the map of Australia too ;o)

@ Jodi, No, unfortunately she was a native, originally from SA (? some where south anyway) but had lived in NT for a couple of years. Yes, she should have known better and so should her kids :o(

Barb - posted on 05/27/2011

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Here is my favorite map of Australia:



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L52qeI-j4jM/Sn...



But your croc story reminded me of the story of a drunk Korean man who climbed over TWO fences to pee on the third rail of the L train in Chicago. Of course he was electrocuted and killed.



His life insurance company was suing the L train because they didn't have warning signs in Korean. They did have signs of a little man with a lightning bolt zapping him, but apparently that wasn't universal enough.



What was funny was i brought this up at a Christmas dinner with my stepmothers family, mentioning how silly i thought the insurance company was to go after the L train company. When her brother (my stepuncle) said "we can't talk about this, i'm the lawyer for the insurance company, this is my case" ROFL!! omg! i wanted some pepper to go with my foot.

Jodi - posted on 05/27/2011

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Holy shit Tracey....really? No warning sign, so mustn't be an issue? To me, that's just stupid.....but then again, was it a tourist? I don't think tourists actually *get* that if you are near a river in the tropics here, then stay the fuck away. After all, it's not like we go around publicising it, because then people get scared and WON'T visit. When really, as long as you are aware, it is perfectly safe (but just not to swim in a river or estuary).

Sneaky - posted on 05/27/2011

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This reminds me of the story of the mother that gave permission to her two daughters to go swimming in the local water hole . . . . not usually a problem right? Unless of course you live in the bloody Northern Territory of Australia and one of your daughters gets killed by a crocodile because you 'thought it was safe' because there 'wasn't a warning sign'.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...

What really p'd me off about the whole story (aside from the fact that an innocent child died a horrific death because of her mother's negligence of course) was that the mother then went public demanding that the NT's croc population be culled! Like that would make up for her stupidity?

I don't see why killing the dog in this case would change anything that has already happened, though with such horrible owners the dog might be better off dead.

Vera - posted on 05/26/2011

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Kate - I thought you were gonna post a picture of a high tech device so clicked on the pic and was telling the kids look this lady uses a silent method to keep hers in... I barely glanced at it and looked over my shoulder when one of my kids said "they use tack strips?" I had to double glance back to see it was the screws... sorry it was funny...

Tara - posted on 05/26/2011

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**********2nd mod warning***********
I just deleted a bunch of posts in this thread due to personal attacks and flaming. This is a debate about a pit bull biting a child. All comments about grammar, spelling, geographical location of members, socioeconomic status of members etc. etc. have been deleted as have all posts commenting on other deleted posts.
Confusing? That's what happens when we stray from the debate into the field of personal attacks and bickering.
Okay, so.... the thread remains open, I will lock it if it happens again. Carry on....
Tara
Your friendly DM moderator.

Heather - posted on 05/26/2011

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Parents Fault. NEVER leave your child alone. Also, you dont have all the facts, was the child hurting the dog? did the child scare the dog? Did the child take something (toy) away from the dog? and no, once a dog bites, there is no promise it will bite again. we had a dog that bit me once when i was 7 (all my fault, i fell on it while it was asleep, both hurting and scaring it) and the bite did break skin, thus dog tasted blood, and guess what? THAT DOG NEVER BIT ANYONE ELSE, IT LIVED ANOTHER 12 YEARS!! so, sorry but ur statement "once a dog (not just a pit bull) attacks and tastes human blood it will continue to attack" is totally untrue.

Tara - posted on 05/26/2011

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********Mod Warning

@Julie and Jersey and anyone else partaking in the name calling etc.

Enough of the name calling and slamming on this board please. If you feel the need to do this back and forth please keep it to private messages.

I do not want to lock this thread, but if the debate continues to degenerate into these kinds of personal attacks I will do so.

Thank you

Tara DM mod.

edited to change jessica to jersey, sorry jessica!

Jessica - posted on 05/26/2011

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My husband and i used to be pittbull breeders.We did this for many years, NOT ONE TIME!!!! did either of my pitts bite anyone nor did they attack anyone. But they were very well socialized they were very well taken care of. My dogs were never chained to a tree with a pad lock which is quite inhumane if you ask me. i also had a chihuahua who would terrorize everyone in the neighborhood MY pittbulls were scared to death of him he was a nasty little dog, But does that me we should kill all chihuahua's NO Dogs attack for different reasons Those dogs were probably in pain did you see that chain how would you feel if you had that hanging around your neck. That mother and father NEED a big slap in the face who leaves a two yr old alone what idiots

Mary - posted on 05/26/2011

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Thanks, Julia. I don't think everyone needs to like pits. We all have different things that we are looking for, or appeal to us in our furry friends. Many of us have had a bad experience with particular breed, and that is obviously going shape the way we may feel about that given breed. I just draw the line at condemning or persecuting an entire breed (or any mixes). It's fine for you to not like pits, the same way I don't like chihuahuas or shar-pei's. The difference is that our society has taken on a gang-like mentality against a breed that is NOT inherently evil or aggressive. They are simply dogs, albeit ones that have been more abused, mistreated, and vilified by the media more than any other breed out there.

As for their looks...again, it's a matter of personal taste. After all, there are people in this world who love those hairless cats...and while I love ALL animals, those things (to me) are really freaky looking. I'm just glad there are those who see something in them that is obviously lost on me.

Julia - posted on 05/26/2011

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Mary,
I did miss the debate a couple of weeks ago...I didn't know that I appreciate all the information. Honestly, still don't trust the dogs personally, and I think they are ugly so I would never own one (I've always thought they were ugly).

The way I combat my kids getting out of the house is I have one of those damn talking alarm systems on the house. It is fucking annoying however I know which door gets opened the minute it opens. So when someone opens the front door I hear the damn alarm say "Front DOOR" it gets on my nerves because if I slam my cabinet door in the kitchen it says my family room window is open.

Amanda - posted on 05/26/2011

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LOL @ that website. Of course pitbull bite numbers are higher then every other breed, when you put in "putbull type" dogs. If you count every pitbull type dog, 90% of the dogs in my neighbourhood land under this catagory.

Mary - posted on 05/26/2011

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Ah, Julia...you must have missed that debate about pits a few weeks ago. The link you provided is from a completely biased, blatantly anti-pit site. It is NOT an impartial rendering of facts.

This is a link to the American Veterinary Association's findings after developing a task force to study both dog bites and canine aggression:

http://www.avma.org/public_health/dogbit...

Some relevant, pertinent excerpts from this:

"...An often-asked question is what breed or breeds of
dogs are most “dangerous”? This inquiry can be
prompted by a serious attack by a specific dog, or it
may be the result of media-driven portrayals of a specific breed as “dangerous.”
12,13
Although this is a common concern, singling out 1 or 2 breeds for control can
result in a false sense of accomplishment.
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Doing so
ignores the true scope of the problem and will not
result in a responsible approach to protecting a community’s citizens.
Dog bite statistics are not really statistics, and they
do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite.
7
Invariably the numbers will show that dogs from popular large breeds are a problem. This should be expected, because big dogs can physically do more damage if
they do bite, and any popular breed has more individuals that could bite. Dogs from small breeds also bite
and are capable of causing severe injury. There are several reasons why it is not possible to calculate a bite
rate for a breed or to compare rates between breeds.
First, the breed of the biting dog may not be accurately recorded, and mixed-breed dogs are commonly
described as if they were purebreds. Second, the actual
number of bites that occur in a community is not
known, especially if they did not result in serious
injury. Third, the number of dogs of a particular breed
or combination of breeds in a community is not
known, because it is rare for all dogs in a community
to be licensed, and existing licensing data is then
incomplete..."



And this:

"...Concerns about “dangerous”
dogs have caused many local governments to consider
supplementing existing animal control laws with ordinances directed toward control of specific breeds or
types of dogs. Members of the Task Force believe such
ordinances are inappropriate and ineffective.
Statistics on fatalities and injuries caused by dogs
cannot be responsibly used to document the “dangerousness” of a particular breed, relative to other breeds,
for several reasons. First, a dog’s tendency to bite
depends on at least 5 interacting factors: heredity, early
experience, later socialization and training, health
(medical and behavioral), and victim behavior.
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Second, there is no reliable way to identify the number
of dogs of a particular breed in the canine population
at any given time (eg, 10 attacks by Doberman
Pinschers relative to a total population of 10 dogs
implies a different risk than 10 attacks by Labrador
Retrievers relative to a population of 1,000 dogs).
Third, statistics may be skewed, because often they do
not consider multiple incidents caused by a single animal. Fourth, breed is often identified by individuals
who are not familiar with breed characteristics and
who commonly identify dogs of mixed ancestry as if
they were purebreds. Fifth, the popularity of breeds
changes over time, making comparison of breed-specific bite rates unreliable.
Breed-specific ordinances imply that there is an
objective method of determining the breed of a particular dog, when in fact, there is not at this time..."

Jodi - posted on 05/25/2011

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Cool :)
I actually leave our chain on all the time. I also have lockable patio bolts on the other doors. I don't always lock them these days, because the kids are older.

Mel - posted on 05/25/2011

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Yep I should have dealt with it, I completely did the wrong thing, but I forget to use the chain sometimes, I think what stopped me was I forgot the chain was on and I would pul it to open it and it would make a massive nosie and wake the baby up. I try to remember to put the chain on now though, but Im not usually away long enough for her to get outside. Lucky I dont live near a main road

Jodi - posted on 05/25/2011

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Or have we misinterpreted? Are you wanting to debate the breed of dog, not the actual incident itself, you were just providing this incident as an example?

Jodi - posted on 05/25/2011

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Oh, I agree with evaluating the dog, always a good idea if the dog has attacked, but it isn't the dog's fault, and I don't believe that it should be put down without a proper professional evaluation just because the mother of the child believes it should. She's just trying to shift the blame.

Julia - posted on 05/25/2011

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By the way I am a dog lover too...I just don't like one particular breed. Actually I don't like a couple of breeds but that is MY opinion. The one Pit Bull (yes 1 was enough to deter me from the breed) I ever had contact with attacked HIS owner 3 times. Now I was bitten once by a Chow. I stil bear the scar from it, I blamed myself because I didn't know the dog and tried to pet it. However, after I was taking care of that dog for a couple of weeks that was the sweetest dog EVER. I would never leave my dog chained up in a yard for extended periods of time. I did have a dog ONCE that I did chain in the backyard when I let him out. But it was never longer than an hour at a time, the only reason I did this is because the little fucker would run straight to my fence dig under it and be IN my neighbors HOUSE before I could blink...the little asshole. They had 2 dogs and a doggy door so he would go inside and hang out all day until they came home. I didn't have time to take him outside on a leash and wait for him to go to the bathroom to bring back in immediately...I had 3 kids, ages 4, under 2 and under 1. I was conscientious of the fact that I could no longer take care of him the way he needed to be taken care of, and I called my mom and she took him off my hands because she had the ability to take care of him when I knew I couldn't.

Now if everyone would actually read what I posted I did say that the retarded fucking parents need to be prosecuted for NEGLECT. Because that is what that is, PERIOD. IT IS THE PARENTS FAULT, not the dog's per se...but after reading Kate's post...I like her idea of isolating the dog and evaluating him.

Jodi - posted on 05/25/2011

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Julia, the dog breed has absolutely nothing to do with this particular incident. This was a parenting issue - lack of supervision.

Mel, sorry, but you should have dealt with it after the first time. Call me judgemental or whatever, but if I knew my kid could unlock the doors, once would be enough to send me to the local hardware store and deal with it.

Mel - posted on 05/25/2011

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my daughter has got out the house 2 or 3 times when Ive been doing dishes...the last time was just a few weeks ago, I was in the kitchen having a conversation with my FIL and realised she wasnt there she was half way down the street she had gone looking for the dog she had let outside some nieghbours saw her, boy did I belt her arse. Ive learned now to put the chain across the door cause locking both doors isnt enough, since 3 yr olds know how to unlock them. Unlike alot of other kids Im greatful mine have never had any accidents, they dont climb things or get into things they shoudlnt, so I have no worries running out to peg some washing or go to the toilet

[deleted account]

Hmmm...Parents leave their child unattended...not...to go do laundry or grab a snack from the fridge but...one takes a trip to the store while the other is on top of the roof...kid wanders off...let's stop there...who the FUCK fault is it??...NOW...Let's continue...the baby wanders into a neighbor's yard that just so happens to have a dog...we won't even say the breed yet or at all because quite fuckin honestly...if a chihuahua was in the yard (and those are some mean little shits) that tiny dog could have just as easily caused as much damage as a bigger dog! But because it's a PITBULL (okay...we named the breed) the fact that the kid was attacked is the dog's fault and the parents bare NO RESPONSIBILITY of the wellbeing of their child??? I CALL BULLSHIT...it annoys me that the OP is so uneducated about this breed and seems to be so bias...just because a dog bites once does NOT mean it will do it again...and there is always a reason why a dog will attack...whether YOU know the reason or not..there will always be one...and it is unfair for you to speak so negatively of a breed that you know absolutely nothing about...but..since you believe that once a dog bites it will again I am guessing you believe that to be true FOR ALL BREEDS and not just the breed that you know absolutely nothing about but have so much hatred for...I am a DOG LOVER...But Pitbulls have a special place in my heart...I have 2 girls pitties myself...and I trust them to the fullest but I would not leave my daughter alone with them while I take a trip to the store and dad is on the roof because they like to play and jump up for kisses and they are so much bigger than my babygirl she would get knocked down...that's just me being a parent...and the parents who left their child should be held responsible...100%...anything could have happened to that kid...who would have been held responsible if the kid would have ran in front of a moving vehicle unexpectedly?? the driver? or the parents?

Mary - posted on 05/25/2011

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Hey Kate - that guy isn't any kind of expert (I think he's a comedian, actually, who must like pits)...I just like the pics, and the overall message =)

Kate CP - posted on 05/25/2011

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"... I have two children one 2 and one 8mo, both walking and climbing and guess what they have never been to the ER or gotten into anything that they shouldnt have..."

That just means you're lucky. I watch my kids and I don't leave them unsupervised and I've still had to make the occasional trip to the ER. Like when my daughter managed to knock out her front tooth. I was on the toilet with the trots and couldn't get to her in time. She climbed where she shouldn't have (after I had told her not to) and fell. Wham-o. No more front tooth.

Did you know that when you see blood coming out of your toddler's mouth your asshole shuts like a time-lock at the bank?

LauraBeth - posted on 05/25/2011

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OH Gorgonzola Cheese!! I am so sorry you are right, I watch them 98% of the time except for those pesky inconviene seconds of running to the bathroom and the 4hr of sleep I get when, i am in the kitchen I can see the whole living room. It is possible to watch your kids and listen for your kids, I dont see how any watchful parent could let their kid "get" outside and into somone else yard without someone knowing, I have two children one 2 and one 8mo, both walking and climbing and guess what they have never been to the ER or gotten into anything that they shouldnt have (also every parent so baby proof their home, it just the thing to do!) I didnt put any unrealistic exspectation on you or anyone else. I am proud that I watch my kiddos, I know that they are safe, healthy, and happy!! you say neurotic I say its just good parenting!!!

Lady Heather - posted on 05/25/2011

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Samesies. Bathroom, pop downstairs to throw the laundry in, that sort of thing. Walk to the corner store for some munchies while the husband mows the lawn or something? Not bloody likely. I'm not sure why you would leave the kid like that without a dog, let alone with it. Or maybe they thought that with the dog was better. Who knows.

Kate CP - posted on 05/25/2011

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I don't think it's possible to watch a child ALL the time...I mean...we have to blink, you know. ;)

However, to leave for the store and then have the other parent obviously out of reach ON THE ROOF which takes a LONG time to get down from in case of an emergency is just stupid. If I'm in the bathroom and I hear a crash or a scuffle I can fly out of there in a heartbeat. If I'm on the roof I may not hear or see anything AND it will take some time to get down. If I'm at the store...well...obviously I'm not available.

No, we can't watch our children ALL the time without fail. But being in the same building is helpful.

Lady Heather - posted on 05/25/2011

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My dogs are awesome (one is half pit) but no way in hell would they be babysitting.

Rosie - posted on 05/25/2011

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i'm sorry, but i don't think it's possible too. do you go to the bathroom. do you watch them while they're sleeping? do you put the shopping cart back in the corral for a couple moments while the kid is in the car seat? do you have more than one child? is your kid in the living room while you are in the kitchen doing dishes? i find it highly improbable, and actually get a little irritated with people who say it is possible, it puts unrealistic expectations on other people. if you have your child with you in all of these situations, i'm sorry, but i think you are acting neurotic.

Isobel - posted on 05/25/2011

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when my daughter was 2 I left her playing blocks while I ran to the bathroom, and when I returned 90 seconds later she had pulled a chair over to the microwave and climbed on top of it and was eating candy. I am lucky she chose that instead of the bag of balloons directly beside it huh? It is entirely possible for a 2 year old to sneak out the back door while a parent is doing the dishes.

That being said...I don't think that's the case in this particular story...I think the only parent home was on the roof :/

Rosie - posted on 05/25/2011

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i have learned alot in these threads about specific dog breeds being dangerous (or in reality, not dangerous). i admit i still am wary about certain breeds- pits in general- because their OWNERS are far more likely to keep them in situations where they are chained inhumainely, or taught to attack, simply because they are the breed of choice for scare tactics. as we see it works immensely well too.



breed specific legislation does not solve any problem, it has not been shown to decrease dog bites in areas that do have it. i wonder why? could it be because the same jackass that was chaining and padlocking his pit, had to get rid of it, and is now chaining and padlocking another breed-who will do the same damn thing the pit in the OP did.



who's to blame here? i dont' blame the parents of the toddler, sure they could've been more responsible with their child however how many of us can say we've kept an eye on our children 100% of the time? i blame the asshole who kept his dog chained and padlocked in a fenced in yard. what the fuck did he think was gonna happen?

Kate CP - posted on 05/25/2011

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Okay, it's bugging me that the author of your link, Mary, called it a temperance test. >.

LauraBeth - posted on 05/25/2011

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The parents are at fault!!! that would be like saying it was the bleach companies fault that the parents left the child unattended and it consumed bleach while NO ONE was WATCHING the child, these parents seemed to have that sickness that 90% of the world has its called ITS NOT MY FAULT-itis (it is a very serious condition) !!!

Bonnie - posted on 05/25/2011

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The child shouldn't have been left alone. Any type of dog can attack, especially if it is given a reason to. I had a pitbull mix for 14 years. Not once did he attack anyone or anything.

April - posted on 05/25/2011

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100% the parents are at fault. I also want to point out that looks can be deceiving. My in laws have this adorable little chihuahua that just looks like a little angel. He is actually an aggressive little thing that will attack if he thinks you are looking at him funny. Actually, he can't stand my 2 year old, so the in laws have to keep him in the cage when we visit. He looks like this cute little thing but man he can be vicious!

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