A suggestion for getting welfare recipients back to work.Could it work?

Kathryn - posted on 12/26/2012 ( 179 moms have responded )

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I think we need to get people back to work, and providing for their own families.

When given the chance,I think most people want to be self sufficient.
Well, that's what they say anyway.

I have lots of ideas of how this can happen, but for this conversation, lets just take it at face value.

All single parents with one child will be required to work for basic wage, but it is more than they receive on welfare. They will need to work in a factory and move into a purposly built apartment complex, close by.

Affordable childcare is available onsite, 24/7.
If they quit or get fired they must move, and will not be provided with welfare. If they are disruptive tenants, they must move, leave their job, and not qualify for welfare.

They can leave anytime they want to take a better paying job, have family and friends take care of them, or do nothing..they just won't be on welfare.

How many on welfare would take this opportunity?
Why or why not?

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Janice - posted on 12/29/2012

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Okay I haven't been around in forever and I'm quite late to this party but I'm dying to say my piece.
So this factory is run by the government and the daycare is and the housing is too, right?
Lets say its a pen factory. This factory is going to pay 10$ an hour, even though the goods that the company that produces their pens in a developing nation only pays its workers 2$ an hour. Obviously, there will be some major difference in the profits of these companies. How will the factory make up the difference? A government subsidy.
Then the daycare will have to be fully subsidized because if the workers are also part of the "program" they will also be guaranteed to make $10 an hour. And if the employees only have to pay $20 a day that wont cover the pay off the care givers let alone the director, food cost and building costs.
Then the housing will be cheap too. But who going to make up the difference? The government.
And $350 a month is barely enough to cover food expense alone for 2 people let alone anything else in most areas. So really your life would be go to the factory work and then come home and eat. If you were lucky some of you and the neighbors could pool some extra food money for a few board games. But most likely these mom would save their few buck for things for their kids like birthday presents and clothes since nothing can be worn for more than a season with little ones under school age. Or maybe the program would provide that too.
Oh but wait a second, what do you call it when the government subsidizes jobs and housing and daycare? Oh yeah, I remember, WELFARE!

Jodi - posted on 12/28/2012

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Actually, having the tools and opportunities is not synonymous with being privileged. Not sure where you got that idea. Maybe the same place you got the rest of your drivel.

"I couldn't give a rat's ass what color workers are, nor do I care about their culture. Work is work."

This comment very clearly sums up the idiocy. Go and do some real research before you judge others. You don't even know the definition of "culture" in the context in which I am using it. So before you open your mouth and spew opinion on cultural and social issues, which is exactly what this is about, at least be informed. You are only coming across as a total twit.

"The question was put forth to welfare recipients."

No, the question was put forth as a hypothetical situation in a debate community full of intelligent women. Which I think was your first mistake. The women in this community are generally sufficiently educated to know you are full of shit.

[deleted account]

this reminds me of China's workhouses.

i refuse to be on welfare - i have been on it in the past and hated it - but i don't think people should be required to work at a factory for "basic wage" whatever you expect that to be. factories are dangerous. what single mother who is already trying to provide for her child or children would want to work somewhere where she could be killed or maimed?

and what about the mothers who have disabilities, physical or otherwise? what about a mom who lost her legs in a car crash, or who has chronic back pain that doesn't allow her to stand for long or that she has to take pain killers which prohibit her from working with heavy machinery or vehicles, as one would if working in a factory? what about someone with bipolar disorder or some other mental issues that could make working in a factory a hazard for herself and those around her? a lot of medicines for those sort of disorders warn against working with heavy machinery or vehicles.

according to your original post, if shit happens a single mom is just out of luck, huh! kid decides to throw multiple tantrums throughout the week - because no truthful mother can say that kids don't get into those kinds of moods (they're called terrible twos for a reason, and don't forget teens) - and "disrupts" the neighbors' peace and she gets kicked out? now she has nowhere to go, no job, and no money to take care of her child. that's just great. because we all need more homeless people and kids with no opportunities.

there are plenty of people who work and are on welfare. if we REALLY want people to get better jobs, maybe education shouldn't be so damn expensive so that more single moms and poor families can get educated in order to be more qualified for the better jobs.

what's wrong with welfare is that once you're on it, it's hard to get off because a lot of times, you end up with better food and better living arrangements, but as soon as you get a job that isn't part-time minimum wage you're forced off of welfare and can no longer afford the better food or shelter and you get dumped on your ass. *I* know damn well how it works. unless you get something that pays four or five times the minimum wage without having to work overtime every week, keeping you away from your kids, then you're just SOL. welfare is a safety net that helps you get by, but the minute you get a check that is over the limit, that net is gone and you fall because they don't let you save up the money to make it on your own.

and THAT is why there's welfare fraud.

but anyway....in short, the idea of putting single mothers into what can essentially be considered sweatshops, in my opinion, is absurd.

Jodi - posted on 12/27/2012

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Yeah, let's brand all single parents getting government assistance "lazy" rather than consider that everyone's circumstances are different and they should therefore not be tarred with the same brush.

Not to mention the fact that your proposed solution hasn't REALLY considered the best interests of the child.

How about you come up with an awesome solution for deadbeat dads who don't pay child support? That is probably an equally reasonable solution to helping those same mothers with raising their children.

Mary - posted on 12/28/2012

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In the 4 years I've been around on Com, I've seen some pretty offensive judgmental crap. The OP, and all of her subsequent posts, are definitely prize winners in this category.

I've learned that it is pointless to debate with self-righteous assholes like this. They THINK they know everything, and are so married to their opinions that facts and reality are useless.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

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~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/30/2012

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Um yeah..I am locking this thread down. Should have done that pages ago, but gonna do it now.

Jodi - posted on 12/29/2012

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Not to mention the fact that you proved that you were in fact nothing but an internet troll (which most of us had already figured out because you were also the topic of conversation in another forum....just sayin').

Jodi - posted on 12/29/2012

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LMAO. Really? You proved nothing except that people should not have to be told WHERE they should work, WHERE they should live, and HOW they should live. Most people would willingly give up welfare if those things were not dictated to them. If you told me that I had a choice between losing my job here and being forced to move to a location where I know my family would not be happy and I KNOW it would not be in their best interests, I would opt for losing my job, even if it meant I had to rely on welfare while I found something else that suited MY family and MY family circumstances. It isn't up to a government to choose where I should live and how I should live.

So it sounds like there is a whole FORUM of socially ignorant people out there. Laughable. Did you tell them that you think people with physical and mental disabilities shouldn't have children because they can't care for them? I'll bet they all thought that was awesome.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has commented on this thread.
You have all been part of an experiment.

It has been linked to another forum discussion, where we are discussing whether welfare recipients would be willing to take a job if it meant getting off welfare.

The concern raised was childcare, housing, and transportation would need to be affordable, otherwise it would not be feasible.

Overwhelmingly, it has been shown here, that most would find reasons why it could not be done.

Until forced off the welfare teat, many are not going to leave without a fight.

Janice - posted on 12/29/2012

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And there are already lots of government run housing. Its income based and called the projects. You didnt invent the idea. Its been proven not to work.

Sorry if I'm harping on old ideas, Its just been so long, feels good to write.

Janice - posted on 12/29/2012

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Oh and 100$ a month for utilities?? Hahaha! We (hubby, me and 2 kids) rent from my MIL. She pays the gas bill which is our hot water and stove. (included in our rent) We pay the electric (heat and lights) for just our apt. In the winter our average bill is 350$ each month; our apt. is only 900sqft and often cold. 100$ a month for utilities is the funniest thing ever!

Jodi - posted on 12/29/2012

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"I've clearly made my point"

Uh, no, not really. Unless you mean you've made your point that you are ignorant about the complexities of the social issues surrounding welfare, I think we got that point.

Dove - posted on 12/29/2012

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What point did you make? That you don't know anything about real people and their real lives because when people ask you real questions all you do is insult them? Again... thanks for the entertainment. ;)

[deleted account]

Jen,
Others do think these issues are serious.
How many states consider drug testing.
How many require community work for payments.
How many have time limits on benefits.
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How many have taken time to read several books I personally consider essential reading like 1984, Oliver Twist and Animal Farm? End result is that I don't know the answer to your question but I can look it up rather easily. What irritates is that there is very little focus in the media the social networking I've viewed on the massive dollar loss due to medical provider fraud.

[deleted account]

Jen,
The companies can push all they want. If they don't want the government contract, I'm sure someone else will be happy to tender for it...all with the cheaper labor (welfare recipients)
I'm sure the lawyers can write up contracts to cover their butts.
-----------------------------------------------------Right so the companies who then to increase profits and reduce expenditures can easily let the housing to pot, can easily make workers have 10-12 hr shifts at a moments notice. No one will dare complain because then you may be kicked out for being a 'disturbance.'

Jodi - posted on 12/29/2012

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"They don't any more ignorant than the 2 of you."

Lol, that's not even a real sentence.....and we are the ignorant ones. Yeah, ok........

So, where did you get your sociology degree, then? Just curious. After all, YOU are the one claiming to be an expert, so put your money where your mouth is sweetheart.

Dove - posted on 12/29/2012

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You're a crack up. Thanks for being my entertainment. What do you really know about my life... or Jodi's life? NOTHING!! Just because we don't agree with you? lol Yeah... you're hilarious.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Little Miss wrote:
"And to answer your last post, many. Drug tests are starting to be done. There are time limits, and you do have to show you are trying to get a job in many states...you need proof. "

and what happens if they test positive for drugs, use up their time limit, and still can't get a job...are they kicked off welfare?
What about their children, what happens with them?

Jodi & Dove,
They don't any more ignorant than the 2 of you.
Worse part...you have already bred and are raising children who think it is ok to be a parasite on society.

Get lost, if you don't like this thread.

Jodi - posted on 12/29/2012

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Kathryn, go and get a sociology degree, and then I may have a little more respect for what you have to say because you could back it up with ACTUAL fact and background. Until then, I will continue to assume you are some clueless ignoramus who just spews filth.

Dove - posted on 12/29/2012

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Why are people arguing w/ a troll in Australia who was from Canada... who is griping about welfare recipients in America?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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And to answer your last post, many. Drug tests are starting to be done. There are time limits, and you do have to show you are trying to get a job in many states...you need proof.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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And WHAT makes you such an expert? Have you been formally educated on welfare, business or economics in a University? Cause quite frankly if you were, you would not be 1. working in factories your whole life 2. have these staunch opinions. And yeah we have already knowledge is the key to success THROUGH education. BAM!

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Jen,
Others do think these issues are serious.
How many states consider drug testing.
How many require community work for payments.
How many have time limits on benefits.

Evelyn - posted on 12/29/2012

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You are no expert. You owned some buildings that you rented out to people. You saw only went through those doors and back. I do not see that you have any degrees or anything like that.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Yes, it seems I must be an expert in welfare reform.
As with most experts, there is always some opposition.

I just thought I'd give everyone a chance to get pregnant with their second child before all this is implemented 01 jan 2014. We will work our way thru the parents with one child first.

Jen,
The companies can push all they want. If they don't want the government contract, I'm sure someone else will be happy to tender for it...all with the cheaper labor (welfare recipients)
I'm sure the lawyers can write up contracts to cover their butts.

[deleted account]

The factories are owned by private investors, not government.
They are given a government contract. They can also fulfill other contracts if they choose to.
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Wow, you really think that companies with government contracts aren't going to push for profit above all including the tenements.

[deleted account]

That still has nothing to do with people sitting at home on welfare, because it is easier than working.
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Which, while certainly poor form, it's not causing that much of a financial problem when compared to other issues. I guess I just don't see why you feel this is such a good idea and that no one else is working on ideas. People once thought the debtor's prison was ok for example and this is why I recommend reading Oliver Twist. It's not the cutesy musical, the concept of poverty and systems of helping the poor aren't given a single note in theatrical produtions.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Jodi,
Of course you fail to see it. You are also a government worker, and paid very generously.
Welfare recipients with one child get paid $1000 per fortnight. Basic wage is about $18 hr, compared to $8-$10 in USA or Canada. All your prices are inflated to match the high wages.
You can't export any finished products, because the price would be too high. Many people are already purchasing online from overseas for many products. Australia is heading for a tough time...sooner, rather than later.


Someone who spends $800+ month for groceries for 4 people doesn't have a clue about budget control. I wouldn't expect any different remarks from you.

Jodi - posted on 12/29/2012

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I am failing to see how Australia is going down the tube. But whatever. If you don't like it, fuck off and live somewhere else. Simple.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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AND, my name is rather fitting for me. Guess who usually gets mad about it and makes lame remarks? People I piss off with the truth, and never being wrong :)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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And I suppose you have answered my education question by your lack of response. Not that I needed you to answer since it is evident.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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You may know how YOUR business runs, but that does not make you the know it all about everything having to do with business. And MANY factories are government owned BTW. And if the factories were going to be specifically for what you propose, then yes the government would be indeed involved if it was specifically built to get people off of welfare as a permanent solution. Think about it.

And our country is losing money and jobs hand over fist by not having those jobs in our countries. Clearly it is not simple economics for you.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Well, Little Miss Who Can't be Wrong (who is wrong)
my husband and I own our own business, retired 2 1/2 years ago at 50....so I think we might know something about how the world and business runs.

The factories are owned by private investors, not government.
They are given a government contract. They can also fulfill other contracts if they choose to.

The money saved by not having to pay welfare recipients, and the money collected by these workers now paying income taxes would be immense.

The government already is buying these "thingymagigs" overseas cheaply, so even if they pay the equivalent or slightly more, they still come ahead. Why?
People working in the factory create spin off jobs.
The more people working, the more taxes paid.

Simple economics.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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There seriously is no getting through to you huh? Why is that? do you personally lack education and you honestly cannot grasp these worldly concepts? This is a sincere question, because someone with education has an open mind to listen to others and understand different perspectives.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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"shaking my head" Who the fuck do you think is going to fund all those factories to open, and all the housing???

And the education starts at kindergarten not just as adults. Better education all across the board. There are many sources where this money could come from. But, yet again, you won't listen to reason so it is pointless to even go there.

And nope. The government does not pay for individual debts for schooling...another big doi. That is why you get a job that is suitable for the training you have acquired. People don't just go to school, get an education and jump on the welfare bandwagon the way you think it is so popular.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Jen,
Just because one part of the government needs overhauling (medical) doesn't mean you can't work on other areas.

It is not an "all or nothing"

That still has nothing to do with people sitting at home on welfare, because it is easier than working.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Who is going to pay for the years of education required?
The government again?
Seems to be the answer for everything...get them to spend even more.

Most people pay for their own education, have lots of debt when they finish.
Unless government pays for it?

I've met and worked with many people who never worked in the field they went to college for. That is their choice. Only time I care, is if was paid for by tax dollars.

No one is stopping anyone from working and taking courses on the side. Yes, it is hard work, and yet people do it all the time.

[deleted account]

America is going down the tubes faster than Australia and Canada because of the country's debt...we are not far behind.
Think of America as the family that is having a difficult paying the bills looking after 9 people.
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Ma'am, let's pretend we're looking at a tenement where all the residents are illegally sponging off every legal aid.

Still doesn't come close to how much we, as a nation, pay corporate welfare. Just like the worst of single mothers who pop babies to get more money cannot come close to how much is stolen by physical therapy practices for billing services not rendered to a Medicaid or Medicare patient. In fact, that Medicaid fraud from ONE PT office is more than this pretend single mom and all her friends. I worked for an HMO prior to becoming ill. Every year, we're required by Medicare to do a reivew on how it works, who gets it and most importantly - what to look for in fraud situations. The Federal Government (who set up this mind-numbing annual torture) clearly states that for Mediare, the bulk of the money taken is by providers, not patients.

Slightly off topic but still pretty relevant in my opinion.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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Oh and stop adding to your posts randomly. Either write at the bottom

Edited to add or ETA so people actually see that you wrote something extra and it gets read. See? You were educated on how to properly edit your post. Whether or not you choose to use that schooling is on you. Lets see if you act like a welfare case and don't take the education. I mean, cause that is what you are saying right? So, if you do not choose to use what I have educated you on, then that must prove you are lazy and on welfare.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Evelyn,
I didn't say every family takes advantage of each other.
Can you people not follow a simple sentence, and stay with that?
I was speaking of a family moved in with relatives, who refused to work, or when one was offered they declined.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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You are so unbelievably frusterating. Why in the world do you possibly think someone would go through school to get a career and never use it? People are not as lazy as you assume they are. Why do you keep insisting that everyone that has training and a career choice in their hands won't use it??? THAT is illogical. Why do you think they would work in a fucking factory and be forced into some weird ass housing instead of having a real career?? THAT is illogical. So you are saying that even if people have an education, they would rather be on welfare or be forced to worked in one of your communist style factories and live paycheck to paycheck??? That if they were offered an education to become a doctor, nurse, medical assistant, dental hygienist, managerial duties, carpenter, electrician, that they would pass that up to work for $10 per hour at a factory instead? That is laughable....but actually not so much funny. Just completely over the top ridiculously narrow minded of you.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Little miss,
Exactly, your family would not be able to support 9 people.

America is going down the tubes faster than Australia and Canada because of the country's debt...we are not far behind.
Think of America as the family that is having a difficult paying the bills looking after 9 people.

You don't wait until the sheriff is there for your eviction, before you decide to start looking for a job to pay your rent.

Kathryn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Little Miss,
I understand exactly what you are saying, but it is illogical.

Having all the training in the world does make a bit of difference if you never use it.

USA, Canada,and Australia produce very little of anything. They export a lot of raw materials for other countries to make,and then import back these jobs. That is where the jobs are, or else it wouldn't be able to support the billions of people living in China and india (most population)

Get real. Training a few people for higher education is fine, but that is not enough to get the amount of people back to work, we are talking about now.

FDR created jobs so it would get the country back to work. Hard jobs, but people would so happy to be working, they were just happy to have one.

[deleted account]

Jen K's grandfather didn't like his, but he worked there.
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Hated it which caused tremendous problems at home. It also led to him acquiring certain illnesses that killed.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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And you are missing a big ass point. We pay into welfare. We pay into unemployment. If something unfortunate happens, that money is reserved for those that NEED help. Your point is not even a point.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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That is a different situation. My household would not be able to afford to feed 3 more kids and another 2 adults. She would not be staying with us if she did not have an income. Period. Why? Because we cannot support a household of 9. And my family would not try to take advantage of eachother like that. These are not realistic scenarios for me personally. But you bet your ass I would help in any way I could. Whether it be in the form of cloths, cash and food that we could spare, or helping find a job. That is called family supporting one another. Not welfare.

Evelyn - posted on 12/29/2012

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Kathryn~I know of a lot of people who have had to move in with their family because of job loss. They have pulled their resources together for the betterment of the family members. Don't tell me that every time someone decides to move back home that it means they will live off those they moved in with. It does not happen in every case.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2012

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I am hoping that just one post gets through her head. I honestly think she has been a bit brainwashed on this subject.

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