Abortion

Jenifer - posted on 07/28/2009

Okay, I know this is an old topic, but I saw this in the news today, and wanted to post it. We had been talking about the need for finding common ground on the left and right in the US on abortion. Looks like our Congress is finally making some progress:



http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/...

The bill is called the "Preventing Unintended Pregnancies, Reducing the Need for Abortion and Supporting Parents Act" and is supported by both pro-life and pro-choice groups. Of course, I've heard almost nothing about this in the national media - I guess compromise doesn't sell as well as conflict. But perhaps here's hope for our politicians yet....

Clare - posted on 07/17/2009

Quoting Allison:

This is a touchy subject, so I will tread lightly. If I were raped I do not feel that the governmnet should have the right to force me to carry the child. I don't think the government has the right to force me to carry a child if it puts my life at rist or if there is no chance the child will survive. Should a gov't agency review my medical file and be the one to determine the fate of myself, or my child. Is everyone so willing to give up their rights to their own bodies? These should be my decisions to make. Now, it's hard to say what decision I would make in such an extreme situation. But at least I would have the freedom to make a decison. Can you imagine what you and your husband would go through having to watch your belly grow after you were raped. What a horrible reminder. What a horrible thing to go through because the government said you didn't have the constitutional right to do anything about it. I think my heart would break everyday.
Now, having said that, it disgusts me that some individuals use abortion as a way of 'birth control', with complete lack or regard for human life. Free clinics doing abortions for the 3rd and 4th time on the same woman. That is appalling. .. And yes, 2nd and 3rd aboritions are a crime against humanity, nature and/or God. Whatever you prefer to say. And I do believe there needs to be some strict laws around terminating at that stage of pregnancy. And anyone considering abortion, should be mandated to take eductional class/seminar on the adoption process as a possible alternative.

hiya just wanted to say your little is so pretty, sorry for cahgning the subject i jusst wanted u 2 no

Jaime - posted on 07/16/2009

Quoting Erin:

Quoting Cathy:

Quoting Erin:

On a personal level, despite being pro-choice, abortion is not something I would consider at this point in my life. The reason I am a single mother is because I refused to follow my ex's request to terminate. Our circumstances were complicated though, so I would certainly understand another woman, if in the same situation, choosing to have the abortion. It wasn't right for me, but I would hate to not have had that option.

I was in the same position with my first pregnancy. The descision is never so easy when contraception has failed to do its job, you're being told to abort and  feel completely alone. I consider myself to be a strong person and continued with the pregnancy because I felt I could do it. I would not want 1st term abortion made illegal because I know that not every woman capable of coping in that situation.

Exactly... A different woman if faced with the same situation may well have felt abortion was their best (or only) option. I'm a strong, capable woman with an education to fall back on and a lot of family support. Not everyone is so lucky.

I too am a single Mom and chose to keep my Son instead of abort him.  I went through a lot of emotional chaos at the beginning of my pregnancy however, and I admit that there were times when I felt so strongly that it might be easier to abort the baby, rather than deal with the depression and the worry.  I had some complications in the beginning and long story short, didn't realize I was even pregnant until I was 7 weeks (I was taking birth control pills)...and to add more chaos to the situation, I had a blood pocket growing under the placenta...this blood pocket was causing severe cramping, and heavy bleeding which made me think 'miscarriage' right away.  I went to the hospital and was actually told by the emerg doc that I had a miscarriage.  I was scheduled to come back to emerg to get a formal ultrasound two days later that would be done to rule out ectopic pregnancy and to be sure that the miscarriage would run its course (so to speak).  While in the ultrasound room, staring up at the ceiling and trying to process the short amount of time I had to get used to the idea of being pregnant and then not being pregnant, I suddenly heard a heart beat.  I immediately asked the technician what the sound was because it startled me...he said "it's the heart beat"...to which I replied "my heartbeat?"...to which he replied "no, the baby's"...to which I replied "what???"....lol...it's not really a funny story, but you can imagine my shock in thinking that I was going in for a routine procedure and finding out that I was pregnant, then I wasn't, then I was again.  My Son is now five months old and I am so thankful for him every single day.  I can't imagine my life without him.

With that being said, I am and always will be pro-choice.  I could not have an abortion, but I am still glad that if I had decided it was the best option for me, then it would have been safe and available to me.

Sarah - posted on 07/16/2009

Quoting Jo Lee:

And this is what happens when people don't talk to their children about sex period...

Not the Daddy: Reports in February said 13-year-old Alfie Patten, fathered his 15-year-old girlfriend's child. In March, DNA tests proved Alfie wasn't the dad. Tyler Barker told the May 20 edition of the Daily Mail that he is the father. The 15-year-old called having sex with the girl "the worst mistake I've ever made in my life."

That was SUCH big news here! Disgusting! 

ME - posted on 07/16/2009

15 year old...

ME - posted on 07/16/2009

I knew a 15 month old who ran full speed into a brick wall trying to induce a miscarraige..I am not surprised at all...just saddened!

?? - posted on 07/16/2009

And this is what happens when people don't talk to their children about sex period...



Not the Daddy: Reports in February said 13-year-old Alfie Patten, fathered his 15-year-old girlfriend's child. In March, DNA tests proved Alfie wasn't the dad. Tyler Barker told the May 20 edition of the Daily Mail that he is the father. The 15-year-old called having sex with the girl "the worst mistake I've ever made in my life."

Jenny - posted on 07/16/2009

OMG that is barbaric! What are the abortion laws in Utah?

Joy - posted on 07/16/2009

OMG that's horrible Jo!

?? - posted on 07/16/2009

This is what happens when teenagers don't go to Planned Parenthood...



Pregnant Teen Beaten: Police in Naples, Utah, charged 21-year-old Arron Harrison with attempted homicide May 22 for allegedly hitting a pregnant teenager in the stomach. Authorities said the 17-year-old girl asked for the beating in an effort to induce a miscarriage.

Charlie - posted on 07/16/2009

Quoting Mary:

I'll restate that I am politically pro-choice, and personally anti-abortion. For me, Molly's life began with heartburn, 2 days before I had missed my period...she had lived in my heart for years, but became a physical reality the second I sensed her presence. BUT...those are my PERSONAL beliefs and emotions, and I'm not sure it's right or fair to expect everyone to agree, or believe what I do. I may not agree with another's choice to terminate, but I don't believe it's my place to impose MY morals on them, or force them to live with the end results of MY belief system; their choice to terminate does not impact me, my family, or society as a whole. They will have to live with that choice, and face whatever consequences may or may not be imposed by a higher power.

As an L&D nurse, I do think that 24 weeks is too late...viability is now possible somewhere between 23 & 24 weeks (although I believe we sometimes venture too far in that arena). I would be in favor of a 20 week cutoff. I have delivered quite a few babies at 21-22 weeks, that, while not sustainable, were born alive, and did live for an hour or more. They are not fully developed, and their eyes are still fused shut, but they ARE babies, who I believe are capable of feeling pain, sensing love, and comfort. More than once in my career I have cuddled one of these infants until they gasped their last breath, when the parents were unable to bear doing so...although heartbreaking, it is one of the blessings that my job bestows on me. At that age, they may not be viable, but they ARE, without question, a human being in their own right, deserving of love, comfort and support for their all too brief life.

i could not have said it better !

i had a misscariage at 15 weeks , i was given the opportunity to hold my baby and say my goodbyes heartbreaking , but i am so glad i did , i got to see and hold my child , although i am pro choice , personally i couldnt have an abortion , after seeing my son at 15 weeks  .

he was a baby , with all the features of a person no bigger than my hand .

Sapphire - posted on 07/15/2009

Another false pretense out there is the claim thay all pregnant women are maternal and have that drive to be a mother. For some, it's the farthest from the truth. One of my college roommates always knew she had zero desire to ever become a mother, let alone go through an unwanted pregnancy. She had a pregnancy scare while using birth control. Abortion was brought up as an option if she was pregnant. I'm glad we live in a society that allows women an option if that's the case. Another friend of mine had such screwy cycles, that she didn't even know she was pregnant until 14-15 weeks. She even had hand reconstruction surgery when she was probably very newly pregnant. By the time she found out, and the shock settled she also considered an abortion. She was single, not with the father, and in the military. Because she was further along, she decided to continue the pregnancy. She felt that if she was less than 12 weeks, she may have terminated. But again, she had that option.

Mary - posted on 07/15/2009

Awww, girls, thank you...have to be honest, at the end of the night, I usually feel like I take away so much more than I give...it is an honor to share in another's joy, or sorrow in such an intimate way. My job is often hard, but possibly more interesting and rewarding than many others!

Sara - posted on 07/15/2009

Quoting Mary:

I'll restate that I am politically pro-choice, and personally anti-abortion. For me, Molly's life began with heartburn, 2 days before I had missed my period...she had lived in my heart for years, but became a physical reality the second I sensed her presence. BUT...those are my PERSONAL beliefs and emotions, and I'm not sure it's right or fair to expect everyone to agree, or believe what I do. I may not agree with another's choice to terminate, but I don't believe it's my place to impose MY morals on them, or force them to live with the end results of MY belief system; their choice to terminate does not impact me, my family, or society as a whole. They will have to live with that choice, and face whatever consequences may or may not be imposed by a higher power.

As an L&D nurse, I do think that 24 weeks is too late...viability is now possible somewhere between 23 & 24 weeks (although I believe we sometimes venture too far in that arena). I would be in favor of a 20 week cutoff. I have delivered quite a few babies at 21-22 weeks, that, while not sustainable, were born alive, and did live for an hour or more. They are not fully developed, and their eyes are still fused shut, but they ARE babies, who I believe are capable of feeling pain, sensing love, and comfort. More than once in my career I have cuddled one of these infants until they gasped their last breath, when the parents were unable to bear doing so...although heartbreaking, it is one of the blessings that my job bestows on me. At that age, they may not be viable, but they ARE, without question, a human being in their own right, deserving of love, comfort and support for their all too brief life.

Aw Mary, you're making me tear up!

I totally agree with you.  As I said before, I dont' think I could have an abortion, especially now that I've carried and given birth to a child.  BUT, I cannot impose my belief system on others and I politically also feel that abortion should remain legal.  I think there should be restrictions after the first trimester as well, 24 weeks does seem too late. 

Esther - posted on 07/15/2009

Quoting Mary:

[ ] As an L&D nurse, I do think that 24 weeks is too late...viability is now possible somewhere between 23 & 24 weeks (although I believe we sometimes venture too far in that arena). I would be in favor of a 20 week cutoff. I have delivered quite a few babies at 21-22 weeks, that, while not sustainable, were born alive, and did live for an hour or more. They are not fully developed, and their eyes are still fused shut, but they ARE babies, who I believe are capable of feeling pain, sensing love, and comfort. More than once in my career I have cuddled one of these infants until they gasped their last breath, when the parents were unable to bear doing so...although heartbreaking, it is one of the blessings that my job bestows on me. At that age, they may not be viable, but they ARE, without question, a human being in their own right, deserving of love, comfort and support for their all too brief life.

Mary - I agree. I vividly remember my 20 week ultrasound and the sense of wonder I felt at seeing my son as a little human being for the first time. Everything was there. The spine, the eyes, the kidneys, the blatter, the arms, legs etc. and I would not dream of having an abortion myself. I would personally be more comfortable with a cut-off around the end of the first trimester, except in serious medical situations.

As for the work you do - I thank you for doing it and I admire you to no end for being able to. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it must be to have a baby take their last breath in your arms. Just reading your post alone has brought tears to my eyes. You're a hero in my book.

Joy - posted on 07/15/2009

I just wanted to say that I'm glad there are people in the world like you Mary, who do what you do. I would take those situations home with me, carry them with me in my heart and eventually they would eat me from the inside out. (I had to edit this one....the first time it didn't sound right to me)

Mary - posted on 07/15/2009

I'll restate that I am politically pro-choice, and personally anti-abortion. For me, Molly's life began with heartburn, 2 days before I had missed my period...she had lived in my heart for years, but became a physical reality the second I sensed her presence. BUT...those are my PERSONAL beliefs and emotions, and I'm not sure it's right or fair to expect everyone to agree, or believe what I do. I may not agree with another's choice to terminate, but I don't believe it's my place to impose MY morals on them, or force them to live with the end results of MY belief system; their choice to terminate does not impact me, my family, or society as a whole. They will have to live with that choice, and face whatever consequences may or may not be imposed by a higher power.



As an L&D nurse, I do think that 24 weeks is too late...viability is now possible somewhere between 23 & 24 weeks (although I believe we sometimes venture too far in that arena). I would be in favor of a 20 week cutoff. I have delivered quite a few babies at 21-22 weeks, that, while not sustainable, were born alive, and did live for an hour or more. They are not fully developed, and their eyes are still fused shut, but they ARE babies, who I believe are capable of feeling pain, sensing love, and comfort. More than once in my career I have cuddled one of these infants until they gasped their last breath, when the parents were unable to bear doing so...although heartbreaking, it is one of the blessings that my job bestows on me. At that age, they may not be viable, but they ARE, without question, a human being in their own right, deserving of love, comfort and support for their all too brief life.

Esther - posted on 07/15/2009

Quoting Erin:

The cut-off point for abortions in Australia is 12 weeks - that may be why I'm so firmly pro-choice. And there is mandatory counselling associated with the procedure. I must admit I think 24 weeks is quite late for an abortion without a sound medical reason.

Erin - as a pro-choice woman myself, I agree that I think 24 weeks is late too. I was actually surprised to find out that it was allowed up until such a late date in The Netherlands as I had never heard of anyone having an abortion that late (of course that may be because the abortion rate there is the lowest - or at least one of the lowest, I haven't been able to find the most recent statistics - in the world and I only know 1 woman personally who has ever had one).

The reasoning behind the 24 week cut-off is that that is the viability age. After 24 weeks, theoretically a baby could survive outside the womb. I know however, that with advanced medical technology the viability date is shifting and as a result there is discussion regarding moving that cut-off date as well.

Cathy - posted on 07/15/2009

Personally I'm not in agreement with the 24th week law in the UK. It should be 13 weeks, unless there is a substantial risk to the woman's life or if there are foetal abnormalities, then no time limit. From 14 weeks the procedure changes. It hold more risks and dangers to the woman.



Alison, you are right about free contraception not making much difference in the UK. We have got one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the Europe. Despite having more sex education than ever before I think we are missing education on the importance of families and parental responsabilities. Everythings gotten too PC and they are worried about insulting the children of single parents and young mothers!

Cathy - posted on 07/15/2009

Personally I'm not in agreement with the 24th week law in the UK. It should be 13 weeks, unless there is a substantial risk to the woman's life or if there are foetal abnormalities, then no time limit. From 14 weeks the procedure changes. It hold more risks and dangers to the woman.



Alison, you are right about free contraception not making much difference in the UK. We have got one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the Europe. Despite having more sex education than ever before I think we are missing education on the importance of families and parental responsabilities. Everythings gotten too PC and they are worried about insulting the children of single parents and young mothers!

Alison - posted on 07/15/2009

I wasn't shocked to read an article stating that most abortions are performed on healthy pregnancies to mothers from middle/upper-middle class backrounds. The whole poverty/health thing is not as much of an issue as pro choice groups would have people believe. Ultimately you either support choice or you don't.



Even though I am personally against abortion, I also think it should be a private matter between a doctor and patient rather than a political issue. I think pro life groups should spend their time helping pregnant women explore other options. I also think that free birth control doesn't work if the UK is anything to go by. We have more education than ever before. I don't think there is a solution, but I think mothers and children should be more highly regarded in society.

Traci - posted on 07/14/2009

I respectfully disagree, Jenifer :) I've seen waaaaay too many examples with my own eyes. I guess it just depends on where you live...



http://www.heritage.org/research/welfare...

Jenifer - posted on 07/14/2009

I suppose that while I know for sure that people like you describe are out there abusing the system, I tend to think they are the exception, rather than the other way around. I spent a term of service in AmeriCorps, and worked at public housing sites in Cleveland, OH. The kids I worked with most certainly didn't have those types luxuries at home. Now, I think that our society has some strange priorities as a whole, but I guess I get that impression more looking at the other end of the spectrum - people living in McMansions and buying expensive cars and iPhones for their kids. I do think that the genuinely poor are out there, and I think there are a lot more of them than people realize.

Traci - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Jocelyn:

Quoting Mary:

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Mary:

Absolutely we have to pay for birth control...we have to pay for everything!

OMG!! We get it COMPLETELY free here! We don't even have to pay prescription charges!! That's crazy!! :)

I also want to add that Planned Parenthood provides services and charges fees based on a sliding scale based on income.  But yeah, I have insurance and I still pay $40/month for my birth control, Nuvaring.

Yes...some communities do offer reduced cost family planning services, but certainly not all. I pay 15 dollars/month with insurance (tho not now, b/c i'm pg ;), and my hospital bill for the birth of my first child was around 4,000$, this didn't count the bills for individual docs or for the anesthesiologist (which I needed due to an emergency c-section). We have decent insurance that pays 90% of the bill after our out of pocket expenses which total around 5,000$/year. I'm not sure how people do it with less insurance coverage, or worse, none at all!

i know this is a little off topic, but wow that's crazy expensive!  (im in alberta canada, without extended health care, just the provincial) and i paid $15 for my bc pill and i paid $45 for my hospital bill when i gave birth (and that's only because i wanted the bed with the window) and i was there for 3 days and had an epidural.

no wonder ppl can't afford babies in the states! lol

No, people can MORE than afford babies here in the states......

How many of the people "who can't afford babies" ...

--pay $100 a month to their cell phone providers?

--pay $100 a month to their cable/satellite company?

--have two car payments?

--pay all that money to have internet?

--own a computer?

--own a big screen TV?

You see, people CAN afford babies, but they have a jacked up priority list.  That is the problem.  They want to go on spending money, hand over fist, and then expect everyone else to pay their medical bills.  They want their kids to wear the best of the best, they want to have their mani/pedi's, they want to have their vacations....Hey, I have an idea...instead of buying and charging all that CRAP--put your money into a savings account!!!  A cell phone bill of $80 a month would be an extra $960 a year in their account, and that's before interest.  That's only sacrificing one luxury. 

I know there are always exceptions to the rule, but it is really hard for me to believe that  a MAJORITY of  these people scrimp and save and still cannot afford their babies.  It's about having the right priorities and being responsible.  Save for the future!!! :)  When I see "poor" people on tv at a soup kitchen, using their iPhone, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.  Get rid of the iPhone and then come talk to me about your sob story, you know? 

Erin - posted on 07/14/2009

I didn't realise routine abortions could be done so far into a pregnancy elsewhere in the world, and I agree that's why it's so controversial there and not here. While it is obviously still a very personal issue and people have their opinions, it certainly doesn't polarize people the way it seems to in the US.

Christa - posted on 07/14/2009

Erin, I think that law is great. There absolutely should be counseling involved, I believe before the abortion is performed. I don't think many women really know what they are signing up for when they go in. Your life doesn't magically go back to normal after. Once a mother always a mother. If the US law was like that I don't think this would be quite a hot issue. Granted I don't think they should be done at all, but that is a much better law.

Erin - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Cathy:

What is the actual law regarding abortion in the US?

UK abortion law

Abortion is legal in the UK up to the 24th week of pregnancy. However, if there is a substantial risk to the woman's life or if there are foetal abnormalities there is no time limit.

To comply with the 1967 Abortion Act, two doctors must give their consent, stating that to continue with the pregnancy would present a risk to the physical or mental health of the woman or her existing children.

The cut-off point for abortions in Australia is 12 weeks - that may be why I'm so firmly pro-choice. And there is mandatory counselling associated with the procedure. I must admit I think 24 weeks is quite late for an abortion without a sound medical reason.

Jenny - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Jocelyn:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Jocelyn:

This is slightly scary, I was wondering about the rules for abortion in Canada and this is what i found;
Abortion in Canada is not limited by the law. While some non-legal obstacles exist, Canada is one of only a few nations with no legal restrictions on abortion. Although abortion is defined as termination up to 20 weeks’ gestation, a lack of restrictions on abortion in Canada has made it legal and accessible through all 40 weeks/nine months of pregnancy.

I don't like that one bit; so if you can find a doctor willing to abort at 9 months, you can legally do it... that's a little twisted...

I wonder if that has any effect on their abortion rates compared to other places?? :)

i'm not too sure, it said that there were 30 abortions to every 100 births...

While abortion is not limited in Caanda and is provided free of charge we have a slightly lower rate per capita than the US. Source: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/a...

Other abortion statistics by country, province, state and other areas can be found here: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/a...

Third term abortions are not easily available although they are legal.

Esther - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Cathy:

What is the actual law regarding abortion in the US?

UK abortion law

Abortion is legal in the UK up to the 24th week of pregnancy. However, if there is a substantial risk to the woman's life or if there are foetal abnormalities there is no time limit.

To comply with the 1967 Abortion Act, two doctors must give their consent, stating that to continue with the pregnancy would present a risk to the physical or mental health of the woman or her existing children.

In The Netherlands too the law is that abortion is legal "in cases of emergency" until the 24th week. However, they have deliberately left the definition of "emergency" as vague as possible because what constitutes an emergency for one woman would be a small bump in the road for another woman. So in effect, abortion is legal under any circumstances until the 24th week, and only in clinics that are licensed to perform abortions (qualified medical personel, at least 2 doctors present etc.).

After the 24th week it is only allowed in medical emergencies and there is oversight in place for that.

If a woman wants to have an abortion, she has to make her decision known to a doctor and then there is a mandatory 5 day wait period before the procedure can be performed (on the 6th day).

Esther - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Christa:

Like I said the facts are what they are. Numbers don't lie. Pro-life activists don't make money standing up for their cause.

Christa - that may be true, but politicians do espousing pro-life positions. They are able to raise a lot of money for themselves that way.

As for Planned Parenthood - I don't know that much about them. I don't know how much money they do or do not make on abortions. But I do not believe that anyone takes pleasure in performing abortions and I don't believe that these are bloodthirsty babykillers just out to make a buck. Also, these people's lives are threatened by pro-life (how ironic) activists all the time. And (as we saw in the case of Dr Tiller recently) these are not idle threats. I doubt that the money is THAT good that that alone is what drives them.

Sapphire - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Jocelyn:

OH i do have a question for those of you in the states, i heard that in order to get an abortion, they make you listen to the heartbeat beforehand to try and get you to change your mind, is that true?



Not sure if this is true or not, since every state has their own laws. But forcing a woman to listen to a heartbeat might have the opposite reaction. If she is so strongly wanting the abortion, the heartbeat mgiht only reaffirm her mindset as "Get it out of me now!" Just a thought though. Likewise, listening to the heartbeat may give the mother something else to reconsider. I firmly believe that education is the key and no one should go into an abortion without being educated about the pros, cons, and procedures first.

ME - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Jocelyn:

Quoting Mary:

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Mary:

Absolutely we have to pay for birth control...we have to pay for everything!

OMG!! We get it COMPLETELY free here! We don't even have to pay prescription charges!! That's crazy!! :)

I also want to add that Planned Parenthood provides services and charges fees based on a sliding scale based on income.  But yeah, I have insurance and I still pay $40/month for my birth control, Nuvaring.

Yes...some communities do offer reduced cost family planning services, but certainly not all. I pay 15 dollars/month with insurance (tho not now, b/c i'm pg ;), and my hospital bill for the birth of my first child was around 4,000$, this didn't count the bills for individual docs or for the anesthesiologist (which I needed due to an emergency c-section). We have decent insurance that pays 90% of the bill after our out of pocket expenses which total around 5,000$/year. I'm not sure how people do it with less insurance coverage, or worse, none at all!

i know this is a little off topic, but wow that's crazy expensive!  (im in alberta canada, without extended health care, just the provincial) and i paid $15 for my bc pill and i paid $45 for my hospital bill when i gave birth (and that's only because i wanted the bed with the window) and i was there for 3 days and had an epidural.

no wonder ppl can't afford babies in the states! lol

...this is exactly why we need health care reform in the states...I am aware that the cost is high...and like I said, I have pretty decent insurance...I've suggested elsewhere that we, as US citizens, demand that our elected officials no longer get their health care covered by tax payers until they do something about health care for the rest of us...the idea was not met with much acceptance...LOL...

Jocelyn - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Jenifer:

Quoting Jocelyn:

OH i do have a question for those of you in the states, i heard that in order to get an abortion, they make you listen to the heartbeat beforehand to try and get you to change your mind, is that true?

I don't think this is true in most states, though I'm pretty sure they always do an ultrasound beforehand. But maybe what you are thinking of is a law that went into effect in South Dakota last year. There was a lot of controversey about it. Doctors there are now required to read a script to the woman before they can perform an abortion. I couldn't find the text online, but found an article about it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

 

The sript includes phrases like, the abortion "will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique living human being" and that the woman as a Constitutionally protected existing relationship with the fetus. There was a lot of uproar over it, since in made some medical claims not at all supported by science. Not that any of this matters too much now, South Dakota had only one abortion provider in the entire state, and they've since had to close down.

yes, that was exactly what i was thinking of, thank you!

Jocelyn - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Mary:

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Mary:

Absolutely we have to pay for birth control...we have to pay for everything!

OMG!! We get it COMPLETELY free here! We don't even have to pay prescription charges!! That's crazy!! :)

I also want to add that Planned Parenthood provides services and charges fees based on a sliding scale based on income.  But yeah, I have insurance and I still pay $40/month for my birth control, Nuvaring.

Yes...some communities do offer reduced cost family planning services, but certainly not all. I pay 15 dollars/month with insurance (tho not now, b/c i'm pg ;), and my hospital bill for the birth of my first child was around 4,000$, this didn't count the bills for individual docs or for the anesthesiologist (which I needed due to an emergency c-section). We have decent insurance that pays 90% of the bill after our out of pocket expenses which total around 5,000$/year. I'm not sure how people do it with less insurance coverage, or worse, none at all!

i know this is a little off topic, but wow that's crazy expensive!  (im in alberta canada, without extended health care, just the provincial) and i paid $15 for my bc pill and i paid $45 for my hospital bill when i gave birth (and that's only because i wanted the bed with the window) and i was there for 3 days and had an epidural.

no wonder ppl can't afford babies in the states! lol

Jenifer - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Jocelyn:

OH i do have a question for those of you in the states, i heard that in order to get an abortion, they make you listen to the heartbeat beforehand to try and get you to change your mind, is that true?

I don't think this is true in most states, though I'm pretty sure they always do an ultrasound beforehand. But maybe what you are thinking of is a law that went into effect in South Dakota last year. There was a lot of controversey about it. Doctors there are now required to read a script to the woman before they can perform an abortion. I couldn't find the text online, but found an article about it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

The sript includes phrases like, the abortion "will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique living human being" and that the woman as a Constitutionally protected existing relationship with the fetus. There was a lot of uproar over it, since in made some medical claims not at all supported by science. Not that any of this matters too much now, South Dakota had only one abortion provider in the entire state, and they've since had to close down.

ME - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Mary:

Absolutely we have to pay for birth control...we have to pay for everything!

OMG!! We get it COMPLETELY free here! We don't even have to pay prescription charges!! That's crazy!! :)

I also want to add that Planned Parenthood provides services and charges fees based on a sliding scale based on income.  But yeah, I have insurance and I still pay $40/month for my birth control, Nuvaring.

Yes...some communities do offer reduced cost family planning services, but certainly not all. I pay 15 dollars/month with insurance (tho not now, b/c i'm pg ;), and my hospital bill for the birth of my first child was around 4,000$, this didn't count the bills for individual docs or for the anesthesiologist (which I needed due to an emergency c-section). We have decent insurance that pays 90% of the bill after our out of pocket expenses which total around 5,000$/year. I'm not sure how people do it with less insurance coverage, or worse, none at all!

Sara - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Mary:

Absolutely we have to pay for birth control...we have to pay for everything!

OMG!! We get it COMPLETELY free here! We don't even have to pay prescription charges!! That's crazy!! :)

I also want to add that Planned Parenthood provides services and charges fees based on a sliding scale based on income.  But yeah, I have insurance and I still pay $40/month for my birth control, Nuvaring.

Sapphire - posted on 07/14/2009

I am pro-choice. I don't think anyone has the right to tell me what I should do with my body. I do believe that any woman considering an abortion needs to go through counseling or some kind of mini-psychological consultation so she knows and is fully informed of the procedure. I am glad I live in a society that I can make that choice. I believe that this is a medical choice that a woman makes with her doctor and/or partner and not the government. I do not like the fact that there are women out there that do use abortion as a form of birth control. These are lazy and irresponsible women, IMO. But, like I said I am glad that women do have that choice even if I think these women are idiots. I do not agree with late term abortions unless it is proven that the mother's health is in jeopardy or the baby is deemed terminal. During that 1st trimester, and even up to part of the 2nd trimester, a woman has plenty of time to consider this procedure. I also believe woman who have thoughtfully considered an abortion as the best option for them is a smart decision. There are woman who would purposefully damage their pregnant bodies-drinking, smoking, illegal drugs, wild roller coasters, etc. if they were told "No, you HAVE to give birth." There are women that would sink into severe depression/suicidal tendancies if they were told they must carry an unwanted baby. There are women who would abandon a baby at birth if denied an abortion.



I resepct everyone's opposing viewpoints, jsut as I woudl hope you respect mine. We may disagree on the topic, but it's not the first, nor last topic we may disagree on. I don't shove my opinions down other people's throats, just as I would hope you don't preach your opinions to me. When asll is said and done, abortion is still a very much divded issue that will never have a happy medium.

Jenifer - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Do you have to pay for birth control in the US?? :)

Yes. There may be some free birth control programs for low income earners, but I'm not aware of any. When I was in college, my birth control pills were discounted by my university health clinic, so I paid $10 a month. That's what I pay now with insurance coverage. Some insurance companies, however, do not cover any birth control and you have to pay full price.

Jenifer - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Do you have to pay for birth control in the US?? :)

Yes. There may be some free birth control programs for low income earners, but I'm not aware of any. When I was in college, my birth control pills were discounted by my university health clinic, so I paid $10 a month. That's what I pay now with insurance coverage. Some insurance companies, however, do not cover any birth control and you have to pay full price.

Jocelyn - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Jocelyn:

This is slightly scary, I was wondering about the rules for abortion in Canada and this is what i found;
Abortion in Canada is not limited by the law. While some non-legal obstacles exist, Canada is one of only a few nations with no legal restrictions on abortion. Although abortion is defined as termination up to 20 weeks’ gestation, a lack of restrictions on abortion in Canada has made it legal and accessible through all 40 weeks/nine months of pregnancy.

I don't like that one bit; so if you can find a doctor willing to abort at 9 months, you can legally do it... that's a little twisted...

I wonder if that has any effect on their abortion rates compared to other places?? :)

i'm not too sure, it said that there were 30 abortions to every 100 births...

Sarah - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Mary:

Absolutely we have to pay for birth control...we have to pay for everything!

OMG!! We get it COMPLETELY free here! We don't even have to pay prescription charges!! That's crazy!! :)

ME - posted on 07/14/2009

Absolutely we have to pay for birth control...we have to pay for everything!

Sarah - posted on 07/14/2009

Quoting Jocelyn:

This is slightly scary, I was wondering about the rules for abortion in Canada and this is what i found;
Abortion in Canada is not limited by the law. While some non-legal obstacles exist, Canada is one of only a few nations with no legal restrictions on abortion. Although abortion is defined as termination up to 20 weeks’ gestation, a lack of restrictions on abortion in Canada has made it legal and accessible through all 40 weeks/nine months of pregnancy.

I don't like that one bit; so if you can find a doctor willing to abort at 9 months, you can legally do it... that's a little twisted...

I wonder if that has any effect on their abortion rates compared to other places?? :)

Sarah - posted on 07/14/2009

Do you have to pay for birth control in the US?? :)

Jocelyn - posted on 07/14/2009

This is slightly scary, I was wondering about the rules for abortion in Canada and this is what i found;
Abortion in Canada is not limited by the law. While some non-legal obstacles exist, Canada is one of only a few nations with no legal restrictions on abortion. Although abortion is defined as termination up to 20 weeks’ gestation, a lack of restrictions on abortion in Canada has made it legal and accessible through all 40 weeks/nine months of pregnancy.

I don't like that one bit; so if you can find a doctor willing to abort at 9 months, you can legally do it... that's a little twisted...

Cathy - posted on 07/14/2009

In the UK, abortions can be carried out on the NHS, no one is making money out of them. We also have free contraception such as the pill available to all.
Family planning clinics offer impartial advice. They can provide women with all the options but have nothing to gain either way.

ME - posted on 07/14/2009

I'm sorry for that last post...I try not to let my emotions get the best of me, and that was completely off the topic.

ME - posted on 07/14/2009

Maybe not...but they aren't all pictures of morality either...During the DNC they drove pictures of aborted fetuses past grade schools in Denver...They might not make money, but they sure aren't afraid to traumatize people/children to get their point across.

Christa - posted on 07/14/2009

Like I said the facts are what they are. Numbers don't lie. Pro-life activists don't make money standing up for their cause.