"abortion" doctor charged with murder after killing babies born alive

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Nicole - posted on 01/24/2011

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Oh dear! @Jessica G, as someone who chooses life for herself, I have to say that you are barking up the wrong tree! You can't just imply that someone either can't be a mother because they support a woman being able to get an abortion, or imply that they are a bad mother because of said beliefs. It's off-putting and doesn't bring anyone to your cause. Not to mention, that I have known women who have had an abortion and went on to be wonderful, loving mothers. A few have regretted their decision once they had children and some were more sure of their position to support abortion.



I would never have an abortion, because I am emotionally tied to my pregnancies from the moment I find out and I feel that life started at their conception, but others don't and I have learned to live with it. I am happy about my decisions in my own life and that's all that matters to me. If I spent my time trying to convince others of my feelings about my pregnancies, I would never get anything else done. So, instead, I just chose to be accepting and let others deal with their own consciences or let the law of the land deal with them. If what they are doing bothers neither their conscience or the law, then I am certainly not going to waste my time trying to convince either otherwise.



Which leads me to getting back on topic: What this man did IS considered murder under the law and since his own conscience chose not to lead him in the right direction, then the law has to punish him for not obeying it.



This guy is a murderer. Plain.and.simple.

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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This has nothing to do with pro choice or pro life. It's not abortion at 8 months if you ask me. Just murder. There's no excuse for this. There's no excuse for late term abortions either. If it looks like a baby and can live outside the womb, it probably fucking is a baby. Anyone involved should be charged with the whole fucking artillery of charges.

Kate CP - posted on 01/24/2011

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No, but this guy wasn't an abortion doctor. He didn't perform abortions. He killed babies after they were born. That is NOT an abortion.

[deleted account]

Well, duh... this is Circle of MOMS... yeesh... Are you somehow implying I'm a bad mother, or I couldn't possibly be a mother, because I support a woman's decision to abort a pregnancy? Oiy... I don't think I'm even going to warrant that implication with a response... Bash me if you want, but that's NOT the subject of this thread. If you want to debate the morality of abortions or when life is viable, start a new thread...

Kate CP - posted on 01/24/2011

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Uhhh...you can't abort a baby after it's been born. So in this case, these were NOT abortions, but live births who were murdered shortly after delivery.

NOT the same thing, Jessica G.

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[deleted account]

I will add that I have already replied to this thread and what this man was doing was NOT abortion and I actually think he gave abortion clinics a bad name by calling it abortion.

[deleted account]

Oh dear God... We are NOT going to get into the whole abortion issue again and the bullcrap of "this is when it's viable so it's wrong" bullshit are we? Ugh...

Jessica - posted on 01/24/2011

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what about adoption?? If you are not at risk health wise..why not give another un-able couple the joys of having a baby?!?!

Jessica - posted on 01/24/2011

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yayyy..justice was served!!! All abortion Dr's who choose to kill a live baby need to face severe consequences!! Killing a poor innocent child just becasue some un-educated mother decides a bit late she doesnt want a child is wrong wrong wrong

Nikkole - posted on 01/20/2011

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This article almost made me cry a little imagining these poor innocent babies dying a horrible death and these women who were tricked! I don't see how someone could live with themselves after doing anything like that they are monsters!

[deleted account]

I saw this in the paper this morning and I literally almost threw up my breakfast when I was reading it. This man is disgusting and he puts a bad name on abortion doctors and pro-choice activists. He's a butcher, not a doctor and I think that if anyone deserves the death penalty he most definetaly does.

I also feel the state is partially responsible. Their job is to oversee people like this. It is just not right that he was allowed to operate his "clinic" for so long with no health inspections at the least by the state (in CA, I know abortion clinics have to be certified and to be certified someone actually comes in unannounced and looks at the facility to make sure it's all up to code).

[deleted account]

Gosh this makes me sick!! These babies are ALIVE! This is not abortion, this is murder (as everyone else has said). I also dont get how the mothers could do this! some in the 8th month of pregnancy even...my gosh im speechless. Im amazed this didnt reach the news in NZ

[deleted account]

I had guys try, but I just refused them because I didn't want to, like I say maybe I was oblivious because I was so set about not dong anything I didn't want to lol (stubborn).

[deleted account]

Toni when i was about 16-17 i was told that. At 12 when i had my first BF i was pressured, not by him, but other people. Mainly my friends who were sexually active.

[deleted account]

People who didn't know they were pregnant Julianne, not everyone knows they are pregnant right from the start, like I said earlier some ladies go through their whole pregnancy without knowing...

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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Yeah people in my grade 8 class were probably having sex lol I just wasn't.

[deleted account]

Maybe I was just oblivious but I never felt any pressure from anyone, I even had the girls who had had sex telling me how lucky I was that I still had my virginity and how they wished they had waited like I did :-)

[deleted account]

If they didnt wait so long, they could have went to a real doctor. who would go 8 months into a pregnancy, then decide to abort...that is mind boggling

Nicole - posted on 01/20/2011

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That's why I said he exploited these women. They were obviously quite desperate for a way out of their pregnancies. One must be to go into a place like that. And then he proceeded to lie to them about their pregnancies, his credentials and about the procedures he performed on these women. He did it all to exploit them out of their money and exploit them into doing his will. It sounds like this man enjoyed exploiting these women to have power over them and the lives that they were carrying. And BONUS! He got paid to do it!

This man is a monster with no care for human life. All of those poor women who felt they had no where else to turn, turned into the hands of a monster!

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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Yeah about 10/11/12. Once kids get to year 8 the pressure to have sex is on these days.

[deleted account]

I think that's why I waited and why I was so anal with protection because my mom was so open about sex and answered all my questions frankly from 6 yo when I started asking (although abviously not too in depth just enough to satisfy me).

[deleted account]

Year 7 would that make you about 10? (it does in the UK) - I agree we did very basic sex ed, it takes a man and a woman to make a baby while in primary school and then started to get more detailed when we went up to seniors school. I agree it sould be started by the latest at about 10 yo (most 10 yo haven't had sex yet or even considered it), that is the only way to stop things like the OP happening.

[deleted account]

We were taught in grade 7, but the condom/birth control section was really small compared to how to have sex and what happens, and it only took a few weeks with one tiny ass book. It should be a full fledged course. I think if parents were more open to talking about sex with their children, more people would wait and use protection.

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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I don't think we did Human Relationships Education until year 10. I live in Aus. But seriously people were having sex before year 10. I should be done in year 7 with the how to put a condom on and what to STIs look like
for future reference if you ask me.

[deleted account]

"Why not prevent the problem instead of fixing it once it happens."

I couldn't agree more. It seems as though in the UK at least more is being done to try and curb unwanted pregnancy issues through a scheme of educating against using protection when having sex, it is aimed at teens and young adults. Personally I think the key is educating children from an earlier age, it seems to me many sex ed programmes wait until the child is potentially having sex to start teaching them about it, thus causing problems with unwanted pregnancy and std's.

[deleted account]

I am pro-life when it comes to myself, i dont agree with abortion whatsoever. I could feel the baby and her life the moment i got pregnant. If more people were in-tune with their body, then they would know life begins at conception. The ONLY reason i am pro choice, is because if someone doesn't want a baby that bad they would kill it, then obviously the child wouldn't have a good life if they were born. I would hate to see an innocent child endure that kind of resentment for being born. Also, so shit like this doesn't happen.If abortion were illegal, more crap like that would go on.



People should be further educated about sex/babies/contraception its so hush hush. I dont get it. Educate people so there will be less of a need for abortion and make contraception easier to obtain. Why not prevent the problem instead of fixing it once it happens.

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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Either do I and it's alright for us to be pro-life and all that because we haven't been in the situation of not wanting a baby. That's why I am pro-choice I guess.

[deleted account]

I know Emma, but just because we could feel our babies moving it doesn't mean somebody else can as well (I was feeling this one at just under 16 weeks but with Ethan I didn't feel him until he was nearly 23 weeks because he wasn't a mover but this one is). Some women can go through their whole pregnancy and not know they are pregnant (that to me is unthinkable, but it does happen).

To me and you our babies are humans from the day we know we are pregnant because we want them, but for the ladies who don't they aren't babies yet so they can end their life (I'm guessing I have never felt the need or want to have an abortion).

Tara - posted on 01/20/2011

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Pro choice means the right to an abortion that is performed by trained medical staff taking the same care and attention that would be given to any other medical procedure. These poor women and these poor babies.
Although I am pro-choice I have limits to that. I do not agree with any abortion beyond 16 weeks. That is just my personal comfort zone. Of course that does not apply to situations where the mothers life is at risk.
Birthing a baby that could survive with medical care and than brutally stabbing it in the neck to sever it's spinal cord is not only murder but it is torture and dismemberment. I say treat this bastard the way they would treat any serial killer. That's all he is in my opinion, a state sanctioned serial killer. Disgusting and I think I'm going to lose my dinner now.

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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That's what I mean Julianne, we should be educated. People should stop lying to their kids about where babies come from so they think sex and getting pregnant aren't related. Going to a doctor should not cost the earth to ask for a prescription. The pill should be highly subsidised and encouraged for people who don't want to get pregnant but are having sex. There should be more emphasis on the fact that sex causes pregnancy, and contraception doesn't always work. Having an abortion is a woman's choice but often it haunts them for years or causes other reproductive problems.

Lacye - posted on 01/20/2011

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I couldn't read that. That was really disturbing. I can't believe that some one could do something to horrible with a single baby much less several!

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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I think even if I was uneducated and could feel my spawn moving I'd assume it was a human. I agree they were victims in a desperate situation. This is why education and options are so important and a basic human right. I think this does argue for pro choice more than anything, if abortion was legal and/or more available at like 4 or 6 weeks when they found out they were pregnant things like this might not happen.

[deleted account]

"People really do disgust me with their attitude towards the unborn."

Me too Emma, I'm not sure but the article did say they told some people the baby was only 24 weeks and held the equipment in a way to make the baby appear smaller, so maybe some of the women didn't know they were as far gone as they were, it did say they came from an impoverished area (generally people in these areas don't have a high level of education). Also it did say many of the women didn't know their baby was born alive and then murdered. I'm not condoning the actions because I think it is sick but I do feel these women may have been victims of this 'doctor' as much as their babies were.

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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Why not just wait 2 months and put them up for adoption, the birth would be just as painful and the emotional damage of knowing you killed another human being would be far greater than knowing you had a child out there you weren't going to know. People really do disgust me with their attitude towards the unborn.

[deleted account]

That is not abortion it is murder, regardless of what you feel about being pro-life or pro-choice. I am amazed more of these women didn't get very sick from infections as it sounds as though the clinic was absolutely disgusting and not at all fit to be carrying out operations! It should have been closed down years ago, when the complaints began.

This does however, support the idea that desparate women will do anything, often used by the pro-choice side of the abortion debate, because a woman who was in her right mind would have walked straight back out a clinic that smelt of cat wee and had blood stains in the rooms, these women must have been desparate to end their pregnancies regardless of what the law says is ok (about how late they could abort).

Nicole - posted on 01/20/2011

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I don't care what your beliefs are on abortion, I think we can all agree that this guy was just greedy and exploited all the women who walked through his clinic doors.

Becky - posted on 01/20/2011

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Ugh, that makes me sick to my stomach! Nevermind pro-life or pro-choice, what he was doing was not abortion, it was murder. It sounds like he was deliberately delivering these babies alive and then killing them. And killing them in a horrible, inhumane manner at that. I'm not pro-death penalty, but my knee-jerk reaction is to say someone should cut his spinal cord with a pair of scissors!
I do think the state agencies who turned a blind eye should be prosecuted for negligence as well. These were illegal abortions and it sounds like filthy, unsanitary and unsafe conditions. Someone should have stepped in much, much sooner!

Jodi - posted on 01/20/2011

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I'm pro-choice and I absolutely cannot believe this! SICK. I watched the video and he seemed to be smirking/smiling in every bit they showed him, creep deserves the full extent of the law and then some.

Erin - posted on 01/20/2011

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I also agree with everyone, I'm pro-choice but that was disturbing. That is murder plain and simple. Reading that article was like reading a horror script. I just don't know what else to say, I'm speechless...........:(

Jenny - posted on 01/20/2011

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Prochoice here too. What a horrible story. I agree this is not tied in with abortion. This man is a monster. Gross.

[deleted account]

I got halfway through the article and had to stop.....that is disgusting. I don't agree with abortion, i am still pro-choice...but really....8months along? the baby can survive outside the womb then.....disturbing...

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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I am entirely pro-choice and this story honestly makes me want to throw up in my mouth. This has nothing to do with abortion. period.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 01/20/2011

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I cannot even bring myself to watch the video...from what I read from someone elses description on another sight...sure sounds like murder to me. I hope they throw everything they can at him...and hard!

Caitlin - posted on 01/20/2011

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Besides him being a disgusting individual, i feel the state is also partially responsible as well, because I feel very strongly that even private clinics need to be held to certain health and safety standards (and law of course, along with making sure everyone is qualified).. SICK..

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