Are Mormons a church or a corporation?

Kelly - posted on 07/14/2010

ok, since this convo is going on in PDM and here, I thought this would be relevant to post here since there is a big misconception on the "tax exempt" status of the church.......
This is my post from PDM, same topic..... Some of you don't participate in that group, so I am pasting what I just posted over there.

So I finally got a chance to somewhat research the tax code....... If any of you have ever tried to actually read tax code, you know why it has taken a while, and I still might not have it all straight...... In your referenced articles Jenny, it doesn't mention the issue of taxes, so why are you assuming that they would NOT pay taxes on certain projects? IRS publication 557 states in reference to a 501(c)(3) organization:
"Even though an organization is recognized as tax exempt, it still may be liable for tax on its unrelated business income. Unrelated business income is income from a trade or business, regularly carried on, that is not substantially related to the charitable, educational, or other purpose that is the basis for the organization’s exemption. An exempt organization that has $1,000 or more of gross income from an unre- lated business must file Form 990-T."

Now, I can see if the hotel is directly tied into BYU Hawaii, it MAY be tax exempt income....... not sure about that one since I am not a tax attorney. The mall however, I could not reasonably see any situation where they wouldn't have to pay taxes on income earned from either direct sales, (i.e. through the Deseret Stores) or from rent paid by mall tenants for example. When I researched Deseret Management Corporation, which is the group that holds the properties in question both in La'ie and in Salt Lake, it definitely states that the Deseret Management Corporation is the holding company which owns the TAX-PAYING companies that fall under the umbrella of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If you have any evidence that shows they definitely AREN'T going to be paying taxes on their business income, please reference them. Otherwise, I see absolutely no problem with the Church having a "real estate arm," and everything I have found indicates that they do pay taxes on business interests.

LaCi - posted on 07/12/2010

WOW. I had no idea.

Sharon - posted on 07/11/2010

::: sigh ::: sometimes freedom of speech sucks ass. When people are just spewing hate.

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

Why are most Mormons white??

Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 7:, p.291

Remarks by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.

Reported by G. D. Watt.

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/Racism.html

http://thriceholy.net/mormon.html#White

In my own province, our Ministry of Education is currently investigating FLDS schools (NOT MAINSTREAM LDS) because they continue to teach that whites are a superior race. This is no longer supported by the mainstream Mormon church, but fundamentalist sects continue to follow the old teachings.

The LDS Church now spends significant resources sending missions to non-white majority countries and attempting to convert non-whites. I do suspect that the majority of those converts do not have any real idea about the racist history of the religion that they have joined.

LaCi - posted on 07/11/2010

You know I never thought about the diversity of mormons. Come to think of it all my mormon friend were quite pale and mostly blonde. hm.

Sharon - posted on 07/11/2010

I agree with Jenny here. The purpose of a CHURCH is to administer to the souls and bodies of the congregation. donations to help those less fortunate, pay the minister a modest livable wage etc. Your minister does NOT need to drive around in Cadillac SUV or Hummer. Your "church" does not need to own a hotel, unless the income from the hotel goes
100% to a charity or school then ok sure. But when it goes to line the pockets the the ministers - its bullshit.

The "church" bought those properties using donations (scams) from the congregation, are they going to pay the congregation back for their "investment"? or is their payback a "better church"? LMFAO. Spare me.

I have never met a korean mormon, a black mormon, or an indian mormon. Why is that?

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

They are running a huge corporation that started off with capital from donations from the congregation. Then they are hiding behind the church as a way to undercut legimate business. It's unethical and the practice is a huge ripoff to the public.

Sapphire - posted on 07/11/2010

I agree that the Mormon faith is pretty much cult-like, but I would never go as far as saying they are terrorists at all! I'm just saying that they keep to themselves and pretty much exclude the rest of the population. So why should I support their mall or hotel industry when the only requirement for employment is to be a Mormon? Just saying'.

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

Oh look, you can buy a modest 1.7 MILLION dollar condo (although the story says prices are lowered, I'm betting it's still over a million on the high end) as part of the mall development. That just screams bull shit to me. And this one is from a Mormon site.



http://mormonlife.com/story/3055-lds-chu...



Kelly, I will try to focus more on Christianity in the future so you don't feel left out. Or maybe Islam but I don't want to get killed.

Kelly - posted on 07/11/2010

Yes, I know that, but this is not the first "Mormon's suck" post that you have started........ Just sayin

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

Kelly, I've been upfront about not supporting any organised religion. I dislike them all equally =) I support personal faith only.

Kelly - posted on 07/11/2010

Jenny I disagree about the Church stepping out of bounds. The first issue is the hotel in Hawaii. Like Christa said, it is right next to the BYU campus, and the Mormon run Polynesian Cultural Center. The articles you provided talked about a fairly modest, 228 room hotel that will serve families going to visit the school and the center, and will also be used as a training ground for students pursuing a degree in Hospitality / Tourism Management. It's not like they are trying to take over the hotel industry.

As far as the second article, that is crap and not a valid source of information. From some of your past posts, I believe you have a jaded view on the Mormon religion, and while I don't know your background, it seems as though you have tunnel vision when it comes to smearing them every chance you get. (More so than just organized religion in general) Mormons in no way are violent, and while they do tend to keep to themselves in everyday life, they don't seek to exclude people. I grew up in UT, the Mormon "Capital" and much of what has been said about them is inflammatory at best.

And Kati, "Under the Banner of Heaven" is a great book, I have read it a few times. But please don't get confused. Those people do not belong to the Mormon religion. Just like Islamic Extremists, they worship and live under a skewed view of what the religion actually stands for and believes.

Jessica - posted on 07/11/2010

go* to hell...is what that was meant to say, lol

Jessica - posted on 07/11/2010

So I won't go into a far to long story...but while I have met many mormons who are very nice and down to earth, they are also extremely judgemental in a nice and condesending way (which makes it worse) I have read the Book of Mormon and even was baptised Mormon when I was 19....when I came to my senses it took me 2 years to have my name removed from everything having to do with the church and at the end of it I can happily say I finally got my way and that I am the only person I know with a letter from a church stating that while I will always be welcome with open arms back to the church, if I don't come back I will do to hell. :)

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

This topic has zero to do with the individuals in the Mormon religion. I have also met many and they were great people. I didn't feel a need to put a disclaimer in the OP. This is about how the church is no longer serving it's intended purpose.

Gertie - posted on 07/11/2010

There is a lot of misunderstanding here about Mormons. Too bad, they're a great group of people. They are about the happiest group of people you'll ever meet...so they must be doing something right. I don't believe in any other book but the Bible, so I could never convert, but live and let live.

To call or equate them with terrorists is just absurd. I've yet to see some kid with a fresh haircut in a polo shirt and khakis strap a bomb onto himself and blow up a parking lot of civilians....so until you DO, please stop equating them with terrorists. How utterly ridiculous.

They may be annoying when trying to convert you, but so are the Jehovah's witnesses, so are the Baptists...they are just trying to share their faith with you. They are doing it out of a love for their fellow man, not because they want to hynotize you or something. Do what I do, politely say...I already go to church and they'll smile and walk away.

LaCi - posted on 07/11/2010

I actually love mormons. I had MANY mormon friends years ago, I say had because they are no longer mormons. ;)

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

My family's closest family friends are Mormons. Well, she and the children, their spouses, & the grandchildren are. The husband has always refused to join, believes completely that it is a cult, but nonetheless tithes his income to the church because he supports & loves his family that much. They make it work because within the family they respect his right to believe what he wants, but the Mormon church has never been that respectful to him. In fact, at one point in the 80's, they threatened to excommunicate the wife & kids if he didn't join. They are a lovely family, all of them, and all of their Mormon friends are very nice people. But the crap we've witnessed as their friends just blows my mind.

I am not a big fan of any form of organized dogmatic religion. The idea of following specific rules set down by a "leader" who is apparently the mouthpiece of god on earth really disgusts me. But the Mormons take it to an entirely new level of control and manipulation. Nasty stuff.

It is all ultimately about taking over. They want to control your freedoms, your choices, and your beliefs. Whether they do it through faith, politics or consumerism, they will find a way to make you pay to them. Of course they have a real estate arm. Mormonism isn't just about the worship of god, it is about a new society that must be created in what they believe to be god's image. They know that power comes from the almighty dollar, and the more they have, the more power and control they will hold. I would never consider shopping at their mall or staying at their hotel. In fact, if I was aware that any business was run through the LDS business group, I would not consider patronizing it. I would not want to financially contribute to helping any group take away my freedoms. Otherwise, I might as well donate to the Taliban.

*Lisa* - posted on 07/11/2010

Wellllll the muslim faith is certainly not a terrorist group but some terrorists have come from that group. I have many beautiful muslim friends.

Janessa - posted on 07/11/2010

Oh my they are crazy period. I have read and heard and what they say about color people in general in they religion no thank you. Many times they tried to push they religion upon me and ask if i would go to church :( I wonder why mostly whites are in that religion thank about it because it is found upon racist views that is whay this native person told me and i read about this to. They church is just as bad as the muslim faith they also should be called a terrorist group.

Sapphire - posted on 07/11/2010

Well I do have to comment that the Mormon churches in my area are more on the aggressive side when trying to convert you into their faith.

*Lisa* - posted on 07/11/2010

I have nothing against them personally. I knew a lovely girl who was part of the mormon church. The thing I most disliked is that she was tricked into being there. They told her she couldn't attend her sister's wedding unless she was baptised into their church. Then when she tried to leave again, they would harass her constantly until she gave up and went back to them. That is why I have trouble believing it is a 'religion' because most religions allow you to choose your beliefs for yourself, not force them on you.
I realise that has nothing to do with the OP sorry! Just wanting to answer.

Sapphire - posted on 07/11/2010

They are double dipping, and by-passing the laws in order to do so. Yes, I do agree that the hotel & mall may help serve the community's economy. BUT.....I have to assume that ONLY members of the Mormon community will be hired-no outsiders will be employed by the Mormon-owned facilities. Again, an assumption but most likely true. I have lovely next-door Mormon neighbors. Prior to them, another Mormon family. And on the other side of my home as well too. They stick together and rarely include outsiders. That's what I personally dislike about the Mormon church. But as neighbors, friendly people, former students....not a problem. when it comes to speaking about their faith, why are they so secretive? As far as actually helping the community, they are not as willing to give hand-outs to those in need, hard-on-your-luck average Joe as opposed to other churches of different denominations in the community. Just a fact from what I observed.

Rosie - posted on 07/11/2010

goodness i am kindof, not really, but somewhat torn on this one. i have met people from the mormons church, in fact i went to school with a few of them, and they were nice people. they had a shit ton of kids, but nice. however we didn't really get into talking religion or politics either.
however my best friend just gave me a book to read called "under the banner of heaven" by jon krakauer. it is the most disturbing thing!! it has to do more with the polygamy side of that religion, and made me want to vomit, and then run to colorado city and save all of them, lol!!

i just realized i didn't answer the question. i agree with sharon!

Christa - posted on 07/11/2010

While I don't agree with certain facets of the Mormon religion, I have many dear friends who are Mormon and you all are being very judgmental of something you clearly don't know much about.



My first thought when I read your point about the hotel in HI is that it's probably near the BYU Hawaii campus. Read the article and sure enough it is. They are building it to serves the students and families who visit the area for the school. The mall in Salt Lake, the biggest Mormon city in the country, is likely also for the people in that area. As far as not allowing gays to hold hands, I highly doubt the source provided. So unless you have a better source I think that's likely bogus. Not to mention Salt Lake is likely not a hot spot for gay couples in the first place.



As far as them being tax exempt, I’m sure they are operating within the limits of the law or else I’m sure certain groups would be all over it. I also find it odd that you are so against a church using funding to help better their community?

*Lisa* - posted on 07/11/2010

Agree with Sharon.

Sharon - posted on 07/11/2010

Tax free "religions" should be barred from holding commercial properties such as those.

I honestly have a hard time seeing mormons as a "real" religion.

Tara - posted on 07/11/2010

I agree 100%, this is another reason I abhor organized religion, there seem to be no limits for them. They hide behind god on every decision they make. Not allowing gay people to hold hands? will there be a sign?? "Welcome to God's Mall, everything you need and everything you want. Gays welcome, but please refrain from touching each other. Thanks and enjoy your spending"

LOLOL

I doubt that many gay or lesbian people would feel the need to shop at God's mall anyhow, but really? Seriously? I think all the right wing christian organizations in the US would actually fall into their "terrorist" definition if they actually looked at them! But they would rather give them HUGE tax breaks, hiring incentives and money to back them up!!

Tara