breastfeeding and obesity

Rebecca - posted on 12/27/2010

I don't think I said bm isn't good for a baby. I just disagree with it making you fat, even if you are predisposed to obesity IF you diet and exercise to the point that your individual body needs. Everyone is different, different people need different regimes to keep themselves out of the obesity category. Sure, they might have more of a risk but it doesn't mean that they are doomed...far from it.

I totally understood and have understood your argument about it changing the child's DNA based on your various studies (pig or not). You expressed it very well, I didn't think I needed to read the entire pig study to understand it better. The concept is simple. I just don't think I agree. To me it doesn't make common sense based on life experience, other mother's children's experience, my own doctor's wisdom and the reading I've done.

So yeah, I know there is a lot out there to prove that bm is healthy....just don't think it's the liquid gold, the medical cure all to stop your child from getting fat.

Tara - posted on 12/27/2010

People born with the obesity gene have a different metabolism than those born without it. Therefore have an "increased risk" of becoming obese in life, regardless of diet and exercise, compared to those born without it. Choosing to breastfeed your baby may help to change the way that gene is expressed in your child's dna, meaning it can be an active gene or an inactive gene, meaning it can contribute to a potential obesity problem or not depending on how that gene expresses itself.
I don't think you read the whole study on pigs and that's okay cause you feel you know all there is to not know about breastfeeding. I'm sorry you had so many problems... but really there is a ton of evidence out there to support the many theories about bm, and more to come. I doubt that somewhere along the line, some scientist is going to say "It's just milk, nothing special in there."

Rebecca - posted on 12/26/2010

Second that Kati. Tara, I agree with you until you said that the ff babies diet and exercise they will still have a chance of being obese. That goes against most ideas about diet and exercise. The fact is, even if you have the chance of being obese (really clinically obese), if you diet and exercise in the amounts your body needs to remain at a healthy body weight...you won't be obese. It's calories in calories out and exercise...that is basic. Haven't you ever watched these crazy shows like The Biggest Loser....sure it's extreme but these are super obese people who choose to diet and exercise and manage to beat the obesity cycle. Sorry, I just don't believe, unless there is a medical problem like thyroid issues, that even a person who may have a body type to put on weight....every single one of them have the option to diet and exercise their way into a healthy lifestyle/weight.

Rosie - posted on 12/26/2010

humans and monkeys are the only ones who don't absorb the antibodies into their bloodstream (hello creationists). humans are born with antibodies, given to them via the placenta.



look, i'm not wanting to argue that formula is better, cause i know it's not. i just don't like information like this being passed off as completely true when we don't know if it is. breastmilk is fascinating stuff, we just don't understand it all yet. claiming it has benefits that havn't been proven yet irritates me because of my experience with breastfeeding. for people who have successfully breastfed, this is encouraging information, that i'm sure they see no harm in passing along.

i just wish that doctors and nurses and the world actually would say what breastfeeding really is, a great, wonderful way to feed your child, instead of what they want it to be. it would save alot of people like me a bunch of heartache, and misery, leading to PPD.

Tara - posted on 12/26/2010

Although breastfeeding rates have increased, so has a sedentary lifestyle full of other variables that make people obese.
When I look at it from the viewpoint that we are animals, then I would say that because we have as a species strayed so far from a balanced diet, and consume so many things that are not really "food" in the sense that it feeds our body efficiently and completely, that really we are countering what our biology dictates.
If breastfeeding does change the way the obesity gene is expressed then it is possible that out diets and lifestyles have been working against nature. Our biology says "this gene is going to be turned off because of our gut flora and so this person won't be obese." but our environment, our lifestyle, our habits all say "I"m going to put trans fats and preservatives and white bread and white sugar and food dyes and more potatoes than anyone needs, and I"m going to eat cows and drink pop etc." then yeah, nature has a fighting chance at best at preventing obesity in that person. But if a person who carries the obesity gene has a body that is fed a natural diet and exercises etc. etc. they are likely not going to be obese. Whereas someone who carries the obesity gene and is ff and eats a healthy diet and excises, they have a better chance of still being obese because of the way that gene is expressed in their dna.
There have always been obese people, but the sheer numbers now reflect a society entrenched in a way of life that promotes it.

Rebecca - posted on 12/26/2010

Let's just say I were to agree that this kink exists. I still would be clueless as to why breast feeding rates have increased in recent years and obesity rates keep climbing. Many people have brought this up...

Stifler's - posted on 12/26/2010

If breastfeeding predisposes you to obesity then maybe obesity is normal. I'm pretty sure we were given breasts with milk to feed babies.

Tara - posted on 12/26/2010

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ado...

Another study this time using, pigs not babies, it's all about changing gene expression in gut flora, and what the differences between ff and bf piglets were.
The conclusions lean in favour of bf infants. not listing a change in specific genes, but identifying many different and more abundant gene clusters and differentiation in the expression of those genes than in the ff piglets.
More research needs to be done, they are only just starting to crack the breastmilk code, each woman's is different as well so it makes it difficult for science to figure it all out. But I wanted you to know that it doesn't just "sit" in their gut, it does (at least in pigs and from a biology perspective I would bet in all mammals) change the ways some genes express themselves, hence the theory that breastfeeding can "turn off" the obesity gene in some mammals.
Anyhow, I get that you're pissed but it's hard to weed through all the info that is out there, people like the LLL are too overboard, others are misinformed or unintentionally spreading disinformation because of something someone told them etc.
Breast milk is to me,, the optimum food for all infant mammals. It just makes sense to me because I believe in nature, and nature is the most perfect thing on earth. With the exception of exceptions.

Rosie - posted on 12/26/2010

i was breastfed and have been a perfectly normal weight, or underweight all of my life until i had children. i'm not using my experiences as my argument. my argument is that there are studies out there that prove the opposite. there are studies out there that only prove it to be true in 4 year old children, not how they turn out as adults. and there are studies out there that prove your argument to be true for white people only. there were no differences in blacks, or hispanics.

here's a study showing breastfeeding CAUSES obesity. http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/285/19/...



i guess my point is that there is no conclusive proof yet that breastfeeding helps ANYTHING other than ear infections, colds, and diarrhea. everything else is pure speculation, from crappily controlled studies. i find almost all studies about breastfeeding hard to believe after hearing how they are performed. theres a study used to say breastfeeding decreases infant mortality. but really what they don't say is that formula fed infants are more likely to die from ANYTHING at all (falling off a table, car accident, anything) tell me how those relate to breastfeeding and WHY on earth they decided to actually use these studies to prove their argument that breastfeeding is better. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cg...



now i do agree that breastfeeding is great, and i do feel it is better, but seriously not the liquid gold it is often thought to be. the immunities given to your baby through breastfeeding don't get absorbed into your babies bloodstream, they just sit in it's gut (therefore perfect for protecting against gastro infections, but really in developed countries not to extremely life threatening). i just feel like we have been lied to, or not told full truths so much about breastfeeding that i find it hard to believe anything about it anymore. i made myself extrememely depressed over almost nothing it seems and it pisses me off.

Rebecca - posted on 12/26/2010

If you believe the study, which it seems many don't.

Tara - posted on 12/26/2010

exactly April. It is a study, not a statement on every ff or bf baby in the world. Obviously there are going to be variables and exceptions. Just like we know cigarettes can cause lung cancer but we likely all know someone who smoked and didn't die from lung cancer as a result.
But the fact remains that smoking CAN cause lung cancer, and the fact remains that ff infants have an increased risk of being overweight or of being obese. "increased risk" is different than "will be".

April - posted on 12/25/2010

i think a lot of people are taking the study too personally...the study doesn't say your FF baby will actually get fat. All the study is saying is that FF babies are more predisposed to obesity than breastfed babies. This may or may not apply to your child.

Joanna - posted on 12/25/2010

My brother and I were formula fed and were always and still are skinny. My husband and his sister were breastfedand the same - skinny. It's because all our parents and grandparents are all tall and thin. Genetics. As for diet growing up, my husbands family ate very nutritious foods, no junk. My family on the other hand... We had alive for junk! So I can't say much for that. Maybe my fathers fast metabolism saved us.

Jakki - posted on 12/25/2010

Well said Sara... you summed it up.

Good Day! - posted on 12/24/2010

I don't know...I think to say that breastfeeding has NOTHING to do with obesity is just as wrong as saying it has EVERYTHING to do with it. I'm pretty convinced that there is a link...but it's only ONE small variable with many many many other variables to consider.

Rosie - posted on 12/24/2010

i think it's a bunch of hooey, lol! i've been thinking about this and breatfeeding rates have been going up and up-and so has obesity. i really don't think the 2 are related. i think it's genetics, and obviously the unhealthy food this country is scarfing down.

Rebecca - posted on 12/24/2010

I agree Heather. My babe actually was a bit of a hybrid. I did what I could to breastfeed what little I made for three months and then pumped for a month the little bit I could get out because the nurses and educators made me so scared if I didn't my kid would have all these problems. My GP stepped in and told me it was okay. My PPD was getting worse because of it. She got all formula from that day on and it was one of the best decisions I made for me and my baby.

Now my little girl, as I've said, is a skinny tall toddler with no hips. I always had hips and a big rack/tiny waist. She has her father's body type exactly. It's like a tiny little girl photocopy of his body. Lots of people in my fiance's family have this exact figure...what I like to call The Pineapple Two-Sticks (A long upper torso that is sort of the shape of a pineapple with two long sticks and no butt sticking out of it). They tend not to put a lot of weight on and it they do it's all in the torso-they'll keep their muscular legs. This is genetics, pure and simple. She will be less likely to gain weight and sorry but she'll never have an ass. Formula or not, she's got one of those bodies that is hard to make fat. Of course, I still have a large focus on activity and healthy eating but I'm not holding my breath thinking my formula fed baby is going to get fat. Not to mention, she will eat until full often leaving a fair amount on the plate...so she's not one of those babies either.

Lady Heather - posted on 12/24/2010

I'm not sure the formula thing has so much to do with a lack of intelligence (as I consider myself to be pretty clever and still formula fed due to problems with feeding), but might be circumstantial. Maybe more single mums formula feed because they have to go back to work and they do a lot of convenience meals because they are on their own and don't have the money for fitness-type activities for the kids so...obesity?

In any case, I'm the one in my family that tends to put on weight and I was the only one exclusively breastfed. My breastfed nephew is a chubbly creature while my formula fed daughter is a scrawny bean pole. My guess is that what you feed after the baby year and the lifestyle you lead is insanely more important.

April - posted on 12/24/2010

Sara H-- more than 4 FF kids fit this research for sure. All of my friends FF and every s single one of them has a child that cannot stop eating the solids. they will finish every single crumb and still ask for more. my son, on the other hand, is breastfed and i feel like i have for force feed him too. but he eats when he is hungry also

Stifler's - posted on 12/24/2010

i don't think it has anything to do with it. me and all my siblings were breastfed until a year and we're all obese because we eat too much and don't exercise. my parents are nothing near obese and never have been. and i agree there are seriously people out there who believe formula is better for babies than breastmilk.

Barb - posted on 12/24/2010

yes, i understand that Jakki, but as other women have pointed out in this thread, women in poorer, uneducated countries bf because that is their only choice, and many women a generation or so ago ff because they were educated to believe that was the correct choice to make at that time.

Jakki - posted on 12/24/2010

I believe Jenn was making a good general point about education levels and breastfeeding in western societies - just because we can think of specific examples where the theory doesn't hold, it doesn't mean the theory is wrong. Eg science shows agree smoking is bad and raises your risk of early death - we all agree with this now yeah? Even though your Auntie Bertha smoked all her life and is now 105 it doesn't mean the science is wrong.

Minnie - posted on 12/23/2010

I completely agree that genetics and lifestyle of the individual are large factors in determining whether a person is obese or not.



One thing that stuck out at me though is that infants who are formula fed have higher rates of body fat at a year than breastfed babies.



If I remember correctly, there are two or three times in our lives when we actually lay down adipose cells. Those are during infancy, puberty and pregnancy. At other times body fat can increase or decrease based on the cells' size, but the actual cells aren't added or taken away at those times.



Bottle-fed infants can be encouraged to take more than they need, which can lead to a baby being overfed, whereas a breastfed infant regulates his or her intake. I think that this might be one of the reasons for the laying down of extra fat cells.



I know that this doesn't happen to everyone and that even if those fat cells are laid down a healthy lifestyle and genetics can keep those fat cells small.



It's just one factor.

Barb - posted on 12/23/2010

"mothers who breastfeed are also more likely to be more intelligent or educated - therefore those people would also be more likely to understand the basics of proper nutrition and would raise their children to eat more healthy, wholesome food as a whole, thus reducing the incidence of obesity." ~ Jenn M

Jenn, i'm not going to rip into you either :) I understand the point you are making but i don't agree with it.

My own personal experience was in `91 when i had my son i was poor, uneducated as far as being a mother, nutrition, health, etc. I breastfed simply because it was free and convenient. Plus, a bonus factor, i was told if i breast fed it would help me lose weight and get back into my figure. Since Jr got me out of my figure, he could help me get back into it, get to work baby!

*note: had to have some tests done recently and found out my uterus has never gone back to it's original size, so this may be a myth.

I would like to add that Jr has never had an obesity issue. I breast fed until he was 6 months old.

Susanne - posted on 12/23/2010

If you eat too much food and dont get enough exercise you get fat I dont really think that what you ate when you were a baby as much relevance on what size you are as an adult. I also think the more intelligent mothers always breastfeed theory is crap too because Ive breastfed four kids and I'm thick as two short planks. My 12 year old was breastfed for a year and is short and skinny but my 10 year old is tall and built like a rugby player, it comes more down to genetics as far as im concerned my oldest follow his father and my second oldest follows my side of the family.

Sarah - posted on 12/22/2010

Ah yes, I just love these good ole BF debates. I'm not a scientist or whatever, but I seriously think that genetics, environment, and lifestyle choices play a bigger role in obesity than whether or not you were BF. My son was FF for the majority of his infancy & he is as tiny as can be. My husband & I both are small, so I am assuming he has inherited our metabolism/body structure. And honestly, when I worked in a daycare with 3 year olds, there's no way I could tell which ones were BF and which ones were not. They all pretty much looked the same to me. I think BF is great and all, IF that's what you choose to do...but at the same time I just don't think breastmilk is some magical potion that should be worshipped or something.

Good Day! - posted on 12/22/2010

I do tend to agree that there are many, many variables to determine these things. Which is why I put up my two disclaimers. Though, I tend to lean towards the view and research that breast-fed babies will fare better...all other variables aside.

Rebecca - posted on 12/22/2010

Some people just hold any weight better than others. When I was heavy no one ever said that they could tell...until I lost it and they always thought I cut my hair. I think it has to do with a person's frame.

Charlie - posted on 12/22/2010

I am overweight according to my doctor , I don't know about my profile pictures they are what they are my close friends know I have struggled with my weight over the years from too skinny to obese to overweight they also say I don't look as heavy as I am *shrug* but I have giant boobs , always have hehe.

My sister stays at a consistent size , she looks like a swimsuit model *sigh* I wish .

Even at my smallest I was asked if I was anorexic I was still 70 kg !

Rebecca - posted on 12/22/2010

I was formula feed and my bros were not. Apparently, in the 70's/in my mom's birthing centre if you were jaundice they told you the baby couldn't be breast fed...imagine that. Now they know, that's silly (but I'm sure there were lots of studies that proved it wasn't, back then). Still, I was up and down as a teen. In my twenties, despite a lot of extended family members being obese, I was able to get my lifestyle/exercise balanced in my life. Funny enough, my breast fed brothers often have issues with overeating and it's starting to show now that they are rolling into their 30's and the metabolism is slowing down.

Jaime - posted on 12/22/2010

Eh, I'll be breastfeeding anyway, whether it has some connection to weight or not. I will also be watching my daughter's diet just like I watch mine. Coincidentally, both my brother and I were formula-fed. He is fourteen and grossly overweight, but I haven't been overweight since I changed my diet and began exercising at the age of twelve. My brother weighs as much as I did, but he doesn't bother with watching what he eats or exercising. But he also has medical conditions for which he used to take medicine, the side effects of which being weight gain.

My point being, the boy could lose the poundage now, and could have been watching his diet before and not be obese. But has he done these things? No. I think weight depends on genetics and personality. And nowadays, more people have personalities that are dependent on food.

Good Day! - posted on 12/22/2010

But then...neither of you are obese. Unless your profile pictures are lying. ;)

Rebecca - posted on 12/22/2010

I agree Loureen.

Charlie - posted on 12/22/2010

See thats the same thing with my sister and I except the reverse .

Me being the breastfed till two years will eat big meals and unless the food is out of site I will continue to eat , my sister who was mainly formula fed is the opposite , never finishes her meals this is why I fell there are other things that play a much bigger part in our eating habits .

Chatty - posted on 12/22/2010

'bout sums it up for me, Sara! ;)

Good Day! - posted on 12/22/2010

Interesting bit about formula fed kids not being able to "know" when they are full.

We had a Christmas party at my house last weekend. My friend was talking about how her 13 month old will eat and eat and eat and never stop unless you take the food from site...and even then he whines for it. My SIL chimed in talking about how all her kids, ages 6, 4, and 18m, do the same. The six year old will eat a man-sized meal, come back an hour later searching for food again. All four kids in this conversation were formula-fed.



Sometimes I feel like I have to force-feed my daughter who was breastfed for almost a year. I've come to the conclusion that if she's hungry, she'll eat. And she does.



**disclaimer** I don't like using one real life example to prove a point. There are always other variables in single cases to consider. But I found it interesting that this topic just came up and four formula-fed kids fit this research.



**disclaimer number 2** I'm not anti-formula. It's not evil. But I do feel more babies COULD be breastfed with better info and support, etc.

Rebecca - posted on 12/22/2010

I'm sorry didn't someone just post a study on the last page that refutes it. It's like any study, there will be others that seek to prove otherwise.

Or would you rather I just lie and say yes...I eat that study up and swallow everything it says. If that is more in the Christmas spirit, go for it. Just read the below...

You're right, my formula feed baby needs a belt to keep up her pants and has always been less heavy than 50 percent of those in her age group....she is totally obese. All of her non-overweight baby friends who were formula feed, they too are overweight and even if their moms run marathons and are dieticians...they'll be fat teens. But, if that breast feed baby who's parents eat Wendy's and McD's every other day and never exercise...they've got a real leg up with that McDonald's laden breast milk and the example they set. No way that kid will end up fat.

Tara - posted on 12/22/2010

@Rebecca, I took the time to read the whole study, it was several pages long, and full of a lot of different mathematical formulas etc. etc. and if you read the link to the study on IQ and breastfeeding you would see that this new study does take into a account education, socio-economic status and it a world study, done on children from affluent society as well as those from poor and oppressed societies.
The obesity study also states several times throughout the actual percentages of overweight children bf vs ff at several times throughout their life, this study was done from 66' through to 02' pretty extensive stuff. And in all accounts, across the board, bf babies were leaner than their ff counterparts, it's not saying that all ff babies will be obese or that all bf babies will be healthy, it simply states over and over that babies who are breastfed for longer than a year are on average less overweight than their ff counterparts.
Read the whole study and then tell me it's just conjecture. There are certainly more factors, but bottomline, if more people breastfed for longer periods of time, we would see less overweight/obese children.
So ff can contribute, so can diet, so can genes. But still, healthier if you breastfeed and not feed your kids junk and get outside to exercise etc.
And it's not a blanket statement, it's a study done all over the world for over 30 years! It has more merit than most recent studies on breastfeeding and maternal and infant health.
:)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/22/2010

I just think this is too much of a blanket statement...judging the planet as a whole. I cannot compare what I do in my country to someone in a 3rd world country, that not only BF becouse that is all they have to feed babies, but eat what is on hand due to living off of nature. If you look at it like that, this statement is ridiculous. Formula would not readily be available to the poverty stricken,...and UNEDUCATED. They would resort to instinct. And I am sure they would NOT have obesity.

Chatty - posted on 12/22/2010

I'll be back....just on my way out the door! Sorry! Going to my parents to make gingerbread houses!

Teresa - posted on 12/22/2010

I was breastfed til somewhere between 2 and 3 and am currently at my heaviest, non pregnant weight.... 100 pounds. ;)

I think breastfeeding CAN be a contributing factor in whether someone becomes overweight or not, but genetics, diet, and activity play a much larger role.

Rebecca - posted on 12/22/2010

I'm well aware of the differences of the time periods, that was my point. There is little connection between how your babe is feed for the first couple months and becoming fat later. It's lifestyle, portion size, what your parents eat, genes, all of those things. The rest is just conjecture.



Jenn, I was making the message simple. LLL, spreads their message in language more like the study that they posted on their site (and yes I saw it was from another site). Basically they say things like, your child will be prone to obesity if you are unable to breast feed or that studies have shown that there might be a connection between IQ and breastfeed babies. Stupid and fat was just cutting to the quick a bit more.



I'd like to add that my problem with some of these studies is that they don't take under consideration education (and to mention income and affordability of healthy foods). It might be that a lot of uneducated parents might just do formula because they can't be bothered and perhaps they wouldn't be bothered to educate themselves about food or exercise. However, that is not all parents who formula feed. I had to formula feed but I also ran 10k ten months after I gave birth, have a strict diet and my partner and I regularly exercise with our little girl. There is more to it than just how anyone may bend the stats.

Jenn - posted on 12/22/2010

@Rebecca - another major difference from then to now is technology. Kids back then ran around and climbed trees and walked to school and did all kinds of active play, whereas now we have iPods and iPhones and Xbox and computers - things that don't require a whole lot of activity. Also, I've never seen LLL say that by not breastfeeding, your child will be fat and stupid.

Tara - posted on 12/22/2010

@Rebecca,
The LLL site simply re-published the study, I posted the second link so that people who are anti-LLL can see it for what it actually is, rather than automatically dismissing it as LLL propaganda.
As well, look back at diet in the 50's and 60's eating out meant going to the local mom and pop restaurant, not scarfing down a big mac, super size fries and a litre of coke.
Also, a lot of people still got their food from a market, fresh, not out of a box from the freezer.
:)

Krista - posted on 12/22/2010

The difference between now and then Rebecca is a massive difference in portion size. Back in the 50's and 60's, the burgers and fries that you'd get at a burger place were probably 1/3 the size of what you get now. Not to mention, healthier eating was the norm back then.

It's scientifically proven that breastfeeding is better for your child. There are links to breastfeeding helping the obesity rate, but that doesn't mean it helps your children in their elder years. What DOES help is an educated stance on healthy eating habits.

Rebecca - posted on 12/22/2010

You know what puzzles me about this whole thing. My mother tells me in the 60's, they thought breastfeeding was not good and heavily endorsed formula. Now the weird thing is with groups like LLL and others pushing breastfeeding as the only choice (or your kid will be stupid or fat) for a couple decades now more moms are breastfeeding. Yet, compared to no other generation this generation of children are suffering from a huge obesity epidemic and young adults are not much better. So, were all those kids sucking down formula in the 50s and 60s who weren't as fat as the kids are now just lucky?

To me this all sounds a bit off logically. Plus, the LLL is kind of like PETA no? Take the info you get from them with a grain of salt because the agenda means more to them than anything else, even people.

Charlie - posted on 12/22/2010

I am all for breastmilk , I breastfeed I just think there are far too many factors that have greater influence than infant feeding .

Shauna - posted on 12/22/2010

i agree, environmental factors are huge. LIke you said you can breastfeed and then give your child a soda in a bottle and offer some cookies .... there are alot of factors in obesity not just how you were fed as a infant. Although it does account for a portion of it.

Shauna - posted on 12/22/2010

i glanced at the article. I have seen others similar but none showing evidence that breastfed babies have a higher risk of being overweight.

I do think breastmilk is liquid gold. Have you tasted formula?!?!?! Ive tasted BM and Formula ill take the BM anyday!!!!

Sara - posted on 12/22/2010

Like Loureen, I was breastfed for a few years. I was an overweight child and continue to be an overweight adult. My sister, who was formula fed, is a size 4 and always has been. Who knows? I would think that other factors such as parent's weight, cultural eating habits, the introduction of exercise as a child and even the mother's health during pregnancy would have a far bigger impact on a child's health later in life than just the idea of breastfeeding. You can breastfeed, but then if you feed your kids McDonald's and Snickers bars every day and not stress the importance of exercise, you're probably going to have an overweight kid.