Breastfeeding Mothers and the Workplace

Esther - posted on 09/11/2009

Quoting Esther:

I didn't read all the posts above, but on this topic - I have to sing my employer's praises. Every employee of my firm who gets pregnant or has a partner who is pregnant is given a hospital grade electric breast pump (a $500 value). Then when you return to work, so called "privacy rooms" are available to us. These are office size rooms that can be locked & that have a LaZ-Boy in them, a refrigerator to store breast milk in, a sink, a table, magazines and that same breast pump that we were provided with so you only have to bring in your own suction cups etc. You can pump during work hours and nobody will ever question how much time you take or expect you to make up for that time. It really made the pumping experience as pleasant as it could possibly be.

Oh - I forgot to add, I also got two sessions with a lactation specialist from my employer.

Mary - posted on 09/11/2009

It's sort of difficult situation, isn't it? On the one hand, we feel outraged that an employer would make pumping so damned difficult, but on the other, well, why should we expect special treatment just because we choose to continue breastfeeding after returning to work? They don't really OWE it to you; you are being paid to do a job, not provide sustenance for your child while on their time. If you choose to use your break times (that everyone else gets) to pump, well, that's your business, but honestly, it's probably all that you can reasonably demand of an employer. Any other concessions to pumping is really a favor on their part.



I returned to work when my daughter was 14 weeks old, and was breastfeeding (still am today). I knew ahead of time that there were nights when this would be challenging, since I had watched many of my colleagues struggle with this before me. My employer certainly tries to be mommy friendly...there is a private pumping room, and you have access to one of our hospital pumps as well. Getting the time to USE that room is a whole other matter, and you are at the mercy of the needs of your patients, and the willingness of your colleagues to cover for you. For me, I had my own electric pump, and I have yet to see the inside of that pumping room. It was easier, and less time consuming for me to use an empty patient room ( and twice a bay in our recovery room where there were patients on either side of me, seperated only by a curtain) when time allowed. I have had nights where our acutiy didn't allow me to pump for hours, and I was practically in tears from the discomfort. It was nobody's fault...just the way the night was going for everyone (we all really needed to pee as well, but even that can be a luxury at times!). I remember one bad night in particular when Molly was about 5 months old, and it had been close to 10 hrs since I had last nursed her before coming into work. One of the docs remarked about how she had been watching my chest grow ( I was pushing with her patient)...and told me to go pump, she would stay and push with her until I was done. Ahhhh...the relief! Now, I have to say, I'm pretty quick about it, so I was only gone about 15 minutes (and 12 oz lighter!). I was eternally grateful, but the truth is, she was doing me a favor - it wasn't something I was owed.



In a perfect world, everyone would be as decent as that doc (of course, she was a friend, and had breastfed her children as well). However, if we expect to return to our jobs, and get paid the same amount as our coworkers, well, we have a responsibility to carry the same workload that they do, and should not expect special treatment just because we are breastfeeding mothers. That is a personal choice, not a professional one, and your employer has no more responsibilty to support that choice than they do to support your smoking habit. Sorry if some of you think that sounds callous, but I'll try to put it in a way that might explain it better. You come into the hospital in rip-roaring active labor at 8cm's, and I'm your nurse. You are screaming to get that epidural, and the window is quickly closing, since it's your 2nd baby. It's a hellishly busy night, and there is no one other than me to care for you, and get that IV in so you can get that epidural. I needed to pump 2 hrs ago, but haven't had the chance...I was getting ready to do so when you arrived. If I don't do it now, chances are I won't have an opportunity for at least another hour. Do you think it's ok for me to make you wait 15 or 20 more minutes so that I can pump?

Jessica - posted on 09/11/2009

I think that the employer not letting her use her break time is ridiculous. As far as I am aware in Oklahoma your employer has to give you time to pump but they don't have to provide a place to do so. So I guess it's kind of a crap shoot.



Sharon, nursing in public and sitting in front of co-workers or clients with a pump attached to your breast is a little different.

Jenifer - posted on 09/11/2009

Wow, Esther. I wish I worked where you work! As for the topic at hand, I don't think pumping moms should get extra breaks and perks that other employees do not have. But I do think it is in the employers best interests to provide reasonable accommodations for a mom who wants to pump during her breaks - like a clean, private room.

However, I have to say that the story itself sounds like the mom also wasn't trying too hard to meet the needs of her employer. I don't know what is wrong with having to record her pumping time on a time sheet, or having to make up the time that she took off of work. Perhaps there's a significant difference in the labor laws here in the US, I'm not really sure. I pumped at work for about 11 months - but I'm a graduate student, so even though I get a paycheck, labor laws don't apply. My options were pump in a restroom, pump in my shared office space, or walk 15 minutes across the campus to pump at the Women's Center. I chose the restroom and diligent hand washing. It sucked, but breastfeeding was my choice, too.

Esther - posted on 09/11/2009

I didn't read all the posts above, but on this topic - I have to sing my employer's praises. Every employee of my firm who gets pregnant or has a partner who is pregnant is given a hospital grade electric breast pump (a $500 value). Then when you return to work, so called "privacy rooms" are available to us. These are office size rooms that can be locked & that have a LaZ-Boy in them, a refrigerator to store breast milk in, a sink, a table, magazines and that same breast pump that we were provided with so you only have to bring in your own suction cups etc. You can pump during work hours and nobody will ever question how much time you take or expect you to make up for that time. It really made the pumping experience as pleasant as it could possibly be.

Sara - posted on 09/11/2009

That's horrible!



Here in the US if a employer has over a certain amout of employees (I can't remember the exact number, but I want to say 50), they are required to give BF moms two 15 minute breaks a day to express and provide a place for them to do it. Studies have been done that show that support for lactation at work benefits individual families as well as employers via improved productivity and staff loyalty; enhanced public image of the employer; and decreased absenteeism, health care costs, and employee turnover.

Diana - posted on 09/10/2009

Oops-I didn't mean the comments from co-workers, as the article doesn't say that. I was thinking of her saying they walk in on her, and if they knew she was in there it seems like they just wanted to either be assholes or see some boobs (or both, take your pick), and that shouldn't be tolerated.

Diana - posted on 09/10/2009

Quoting Jodi:

Quoting Diana:

I guess I just don't see it as "supporting some else's family." I see it as being a responsible employer who takes care of employees, since good, happy employees work their asses off for their employers. I mean, come on. It's not like I'm asking business to provide benefits for everyone (which would be nice). I'm just saying that working mothers shouldn't be made to feel like shit for choosing a difficult road that is, nevertheless, best for their child's health.

Niether should it be assumed that employers should pay for it so others can choose a difficult road.  So do the employers have difficult roads.  I guess I just get sick of people who think anyone who owns a business is made of money and that the "working family" has it tough.  Well guess what?  Employers are working families too!!

Anyway, having said all this, I do think this woman was not treated well in the first place.  She should have had somewhere clean to go to express her milk.  In every place I have ever worked (or owned), there has always been at least an office that can provide privacy for a few minutes.  If done during legal breaks, I have no issue.

I do also have issue with smoke breaks, and I was a smoker (not anymore).  I only ever had a cigarette during legal breaks too.

In essence, employees earn a certain amount, for a certain number of hours on the job.  There are certain requirements for the conditions under which they work.  Special treatments should be able to be negotiated within the contract, but certainly not demanded to be included. I have negotiated with employers in the past when I had my son and needed certain time off, or certain hours changed, they were flexible, but they didn't pay for that flexibility, I had to negotiate my wages in relation to that, which is totally fair.

Actually, I have no qualms with business owners (big or small) calling themselves "working people." Everyone works-even actors and actresses and yes, Bill Gates, work. What I have a problem with (and I'm *not* saying you do, but the department in the article did) is businesses who treat employees like shit, and who assume that they are entitled to walk right over the people who keep them going.

I guess maybe I assumed that she was trying to do as much of this as possible during regular break time, and that doesn't seem like it should be an issue. It also shouldn't be an issue to provide her with a clean, private place to pump, and the comments from her co-workers should be treated as sexual harassment.

There are, however, places who don't give breaks. We keep talking about break time as though it's federal law, and it's not. Here in Mississippi employers aren't required to give employees breaks, and sometimes they don't. That's unfair. We need better laws to protect everyone, but especially to protect women who are trying to do the best they can for their children and families.

Lindsay - posted on 09/10/2009

I don't believe that women that pump should get more privelidges than anyone else in the office that doesn't. Breaks and lunch breaks should be given just like everyone else. The Credit Union that I worked in did not have a place that would be private except the restroom. The offices were all glassed and exposed to the lobby. I have no problem with women that breatfeed and choose to return to work but it should not burden the company by other employees having to make up for their slack. If they are able to pump during breaks and lunch, it shouldn't be an issue. BTW, we didn't get paid for breaks or lunch and I don't believe it should be done on the clock.

Jodi - posted on 09/10/2009

Quoting Diana:

I guess I just don't see it as "supporting some else's family." I see it as being a responsible employer who takes care of employees, since good, happy employees work their asses off for their employers. I mean, come on. It's not like I'm asking business to provide benefits for everyone (which would be nice). I'm just saying that working mothers shouldn't be made to feel like shit for choosing a difficult road that is, nevertheless, best for their child's health.

Niether should it be assumed that employers should pay for it so others can choose a difficult road.  So do the employers have difficult roads.  I guess I just get sick of people who think anyone who owns a business is made of money and that the "working family" has it tough.  Well guess what?  Employers are working families too!!

Anyway, having said all this, I do think this woman was not treated well in the first place.  She should have had somewhere clean to go to express her milk.  In every place I have ever worked (or owned), there has always been at least an office that can provide privacy for a few minutes.  If done during legal breaks, I have no issue.

I do also have issue with smoke breaks, and I was a smoker (not anymore).  I only ever had a cigarette during legal breaks too.

In essence, employees earn a certain amount, for a certain number of hours on the job.  There are certain requirements for the conditions under which they work.  Special treatments should be able to be negotiated within the contract, but certainly not demanded to be included. I have negotiated with employers in the past when I had my son and needed certain time off, or certain hours changed, they were flexible, but they didn't pay for that flexibility, I had to negotiate my wages in relation to that, which is totally fair.

Jodi - posted on 09/10/2009

Quoting Kylie:

When i was at work i was told by law that we had to take a 30 min lunch break and two15 min tea breaks if we worked a 8-9 hour shift all paid for .. thats an hour out of a day which is less time than it would take to express for 15 mins every three hours..so she would still get 15 mins to eat some lunch. There does need to be compromise so small business can survive and still afford to employ mothers, it's got to be fair both ways.

That's where I see it Kylie.  There ARE legal entitlements to lunch breaks, tea breaks, etc.  You are not actually paid for these breaks (not sure if you relaised that), but they are entitlements.  You can also choose NOT to take them and work shorter hours (i.e - a 9-5 day or a 9-4 day while eating lunch at the desk, but it is the EMPLOYEE's choice about this, and employer can't force it).

Brenda - posted on 09/10/2009

WOW. I have never known any mothers where I have worked that had any problems with this. One of my jobs DID have a specified lounge area for mothers to pump and I don't recall it ever being an issue. I think most of the moms just did it on their breaks.
I guess it's ok for you to run off for a cigarette every hour, but god forbid you want to pump breastmilk for your child!!

Erin - posted on 09/10/2009

When I went to work w/my 1st born I didn't have the time etched in stone for when I could pump, and unfortunately group was the 1st 3 hrs so it was always after group, and not always immediately, that I could go pump... if you have a dbl pump, or atleast it was this was for me, it took 15 mins and was not THAT big of a hassel, def. less of one then to go home to feed! During 8 hrs I would try to pump 3x to maintain production and it was no prob. I may have had to pump a lil more frequently at home to spruce up or on my days off if it took me more then 4 hrs on occassion to get to it, but that's about it! Don't police officers have locker rooms? Couldn't she pump in there? I had to use the bathroom as it was the only place available. In WA we have 2 15's and a 1/2 for an 8 hr shift (the 1/2 is not paid but the 15's are) and that is req. So all my pumping was covered by my legal break times... If she was taking more then her break times then I could see the need for her to work OT to make good, otherwise I don't see why not just dock her hours? Have her clock out for whatever exceeds her alotted breaks??? BFD

Sharon - posted on 09/10/2009

a little support is the decent thing to do.



If they had an insulin dependent employee they sure wouldn't make her dose her self in an unclean environment.



But you can't have it all. So many people think they can. You can't work and breastfeed your child while you're at work. Taking off to go feed the baby is insane, although in this instance I understand why.



But I've worked with women who demanded luxury accomodations. Reclining couches, a special room, etc etc etc. It pissed me off. My happy ass doesn't get to go sit down every 2 hours and kick back. I don't extra or special breaks.



same goes for smokers. I used to work with some die hard smokers. Every time I needed help guess where my co-workers were? On a smoke break.



One day my boss couldn't find me. he came back to the store room and I was laying down on a long dolly, feet propped up, arm over my eyes. He says "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?" "Taking a fucking smoke break."



He left never said a word, shortly after that smoke breaks became against the rules. They're killing themselve on company time, getting paid for it and I'm run ragged covering their asses. I don't think so.



Smoke your cigs on regular breaks, pump your breasts on a modified break schedule, but you're not sticking me with your damn work so you can cover your personal obligations.



Pumping your breasts on a toilet is nasty and not to be tolerated. They wouldn't make the diabetic do it. I have no issues with turning a section of the foyer to the womens room a little curtained off alcove for privacy. But what the fuck? Women are breastfeeding their babies at bus stations and in front of glass windows at restaurant, but here on the job they need privacy? Bull shit. Grow a pair and make up your mind if breastfeeding a secluded private thing or not.



I'm sick of people demanding special treatment for every day issues.

Sapphire - posted on 09/10/2009

When I was teaching & pumping, I pumped before school & during my 30 min. lunch break. I suppose I had the luxury of a classroom with a lock, but I was able to take care of my body. I hope the laws are more pro-active to provide at least a clean place for women to pump.

Dana - posted on 09/10/2009

There is NO reason they can't let her go pump milk every few hours. They should also provide a place for her to do it. It's called basic human decency.

Kate CP - posted on 09/10/2009

If she leaves her job to express milk she is off the clock and shouldn't be penalized for it. It's like when I worked in a vet's office. One day I got peed on (and I mean *soaked*) and I asked to go home to get a new shirt. I clocked out, ran home, changed, and came back. I clocked in and I didn't have to work extra hours (or minutes) to make up for the time I wasn't there. As long as she has some one to cover her shift or she has the allotted time from other breaks she shouldn't be penalized for using her personal time to do whatever it is she wishes to do; be that smoke, have a cup of coffee (American here, bear with me ;) ) or pump milk.

Kylie - posted on 09/10/2009

When i was at work i was told by law that we had to take a 30 min lunch break and two15 min tea breaks if we worked a 8-9 hour shift all paid for .. thats an hour out of a day which is less time than it would take to express for 15 mins every three hours..so she would still get 15 mins to eat some lunch. There does need to be compromise so small business can survive and still afford to employ mothers, it's got to be fair both ways.

Diana - posted on 09/10/2009

I guess I just don't see it as "supporting some else's family." I see it as being a responsible employer who takes care of employees, since good, happy employees work their asses off for their employers. I mean, come on. It's not like I'm asking business to provide benefits for everyone (which would be nice). I'm just saying that working mothers shouldn't be made to feel like shit for choosing a difficult road that is, nevertheless, best for their child's health.

Jodi - posted on 09/10/2009

3 1/2 hours a week can be about $70 out of pocket for a small business and this equals $70 a week out of the mouths of the small business owners own children's mouths......how would you like $70 a week out of your pocket because you are supporting someone else's family, and yet you are struggling yourselves?

Diana - posted on 09/10/2009

How many "hours" does she spend expressing milk??? Even if I had kept up my rate of pumping for 15 minutes every 3 hours, that would only mean 30 or 45 minutes a day (depending on how long my commute was and how long before I left for work I'd expressed) for an 8-hour work day. And for a 40 hour work week, that's only 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 hours or so a week. It's not like she's deliberately misusing her time and choosing to goof off at work. And the whole excuse of men not taking off as much as women is tired-men can't breastfeed. They'll never know how difficult it can be. They also don't usually take off work when the kids are sick-it's generally women who have to do that. We give women a hard time for just doing our natural job-having babies and taking care of them. Now, I'm no man-hater-but it's time for that type of discrimination to stop, and for people to realize that some women are doing (and have been for years) things that men both can't and won't do, and they deserve respect for it instead of life being made more difficult for them.

Jodi - posted on 09/10/2009

Kylie, you have some very good points. But it takes longer to express milk than to have a smoke. Our staff get there backsides kicked for using their personal mobile phoens during work hours. And they have no internet access. But I totally agree with offering them office space for 15 minutes to do what they need to do to express the milk.



Don't get me wrong, with my first (we are going back 12 years, so things were very different), I couldn't express at work, and ended up losing my milk altogether, so it was very difficult. But I also guess I accepted that they were such a small business, it was tough for them too. And as an employer now, we struggle every day just to pay our own bills, and while our employees ALWAYS get paid before we do, we would really struggle if we had to provide all of these extras. However, there would always be office space :).



On the flip side, I had a friend work for me for a couple of years while her son was a toddler (same age as my daughter). We were constantly interrupted, and so on, but the kids had a play area but she was happy with lesser pay for the opportunity to work and still have her little one with her. Unfortunately, the legislations don't allow for this kind of work relationship anymore (I don't know if you have seen the new awards under the modernisation implemented this year). I am more than willing to negotiate, but it is very hard for us if we end up out of pocket as a result. And 80% of businesses in this country are small businesses.

Kylie - posted on 09/10/2009

maybe they could let her sit in their office and have a comfortable seat? it's gotta be cheaper for them to make a space available than have the employee driving home and back a few times a day...you cant force a woman to sit in a toilet cubicle or in the car or say she cant express at all... people get tea breaks and lunch breaks.. i would think they get somewhere clean and comfortable to sit, eat and relax. There's got to be compromise and support...do smokers have to do overtime for all their breaks? what about people checking personal messages or using facbook during office time.. do small business people only employ non smokers and poeple without face book accounts to save money? :p i just think if employers look after their workers and support working mums then their employees will be more productive and loyal to them and their business. I'm probably not the right person to be commenting as I've been a SAHM for 4 years it seems poeple are making a big deal over something that should be a basic human right. baby is hungry, baby needs breast milk whether mum is at work or not.

Jodi - posted on 09/10/2009

Quoting Kylie:

if the workplace does not provide some place comfortable and clean to express then she has every right to go home her baby and be paid for it.

But do you think every small business (and I am talking small as in only a handful of employees) should have to provide this?  It costs money.......and small business people have families to feed too.  I am just being devil's advocate here, but I'll also be brutally honest.  If small businesses find that hiring women who are having babies too expensive, they won't hire them at all.

Kylie - posted on 09/10/2009

i saw that article on nine msn and the comments from readers about it were disgusting... some people are so ignorant saying things like " she should not be allowed to work if she chooses to breastfeed" and working mothers should just use formula and stop wasting our tax dollars... ek
It's unfair...there enough pressure on working mothers with them being made feel guilty for the time to takes to express milk for their baby. if the workplace does not provide some place comfortable and clean to express then she has every right to go home her baby and be paid for it.

Jodi - posted on 09/10/2009

I will add my personal opinion. I DO believe employers need to be supportive of mothers returning to work and still breastfeeding their children. We all know that breastfeeding mothers need as much support as possible.



However, I DO NOT believe the employer should have to bear the economic impact of taking time off to breastfeed. As an employer myself (and my husband would too), I can't see why there wouldn't be room to negotiate a lesser rate of pay for the hours (minutes) not worked while breastfeeding or expressing. I can't see why the hours can't be deducted from accumulate leave, because this is already an expense that has to be paid out at sometime anyway. There is no need to force overtime if these options can be negotiated.



With regard to providing somewhere for her to express her milk, I can't understand why a larger employer (PARTICULARLY the public service) can't find a way to provide this for a mother. But I can understand why smaller employers may struggle with this one.

Kate CP - posted on 09/10/2009

Schmucks. All of them...schmucks. :(