......Burn forever in agony for such a moral choice?"

Jessica - posted on 04/27/2011

I have lived a life of sin, according to this 'bible', along with every other human being. And the only place my dead body is going, along with every other human being, is 6 feet underground to become worm food. I'm not going to hell for sinning, and I'm not going to heaven when I bullshit during the last minute of my life, lying that I learned my lessons and deserve to be in some fantasy dream world. I don;t care what any person who's foolish enough to believe in this crap says. That's their opinion. Christian Mary says I'm burning in hell for breaking 8 out of 10 commandments? Well fantastic, I can burn in hell with the biggest damn smile on my face for having enjoyed my life, rather than live it the way some book tells me some fictitious person wants me to.

Jen - posted on 04/27/2011

Cyndel, Jesus really didn't take any punishment like what I would receive if you are correct. Let's think of it this way. If we assume (and that's a huge if imo) that any of the gospels are correct about the crucifixion, that was at most 36 hours of living suffering which wasn't the worst that humans could mete out. (Giles Corey being crushed to death being the first one that springs to mind.) But ok. Now we deal with (depending on which gospel you read because they do all differ on this part of the story), he was dead for anywhere between 1 night to 3 nights and in Hell. 3 nights in Hell vs the eternity I would suffer. How is that comparable?



ETA: Besides, your god managed to be in the presence of sin in the OT rather a lot when he walked the earth but that's another story.

Cyndel - posted on 04/27/2011

It is not about sin against another human being. It is about betraying the God who gave you breath of life. God is perfect and Cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore to be in his presence you must either be perfect, or you must allow Jesus Christ to take the punishment for your sin and admit there is nothing you yourself can do to save yourself. It is about God and your sin, and his inability to have sin in his presence.

Heidi - posted on 04/27/2011

April, exactly. My mom always taught me that sometimes saying sorry didn't mean poop! lol If you say you're sorry and continue doing the same things, sorry becomes just a word. And everyone knows that there are some things that sorry can never take back. Can these things be forgiven? Yes. But they can never be completely forgotten. I haven't always lived my life as I believe that God would wish for me to. But as I have grown, I have changed. And with those changes, I like to think that I have proven myself as a better person to God, myself and anyone else who wants to question my beliefs. :) I'm going to Heaven, or someone is in for some real Hell raising from me lol

April - posted on 04/26/2011

I don't believe that God forgives even christians who ask to be forgiven but don't mean it in their heart. That defeats the purpose. God forgives because he loves us, but if you do something wrong and ask to be forgiven and then do it again? That is when you don't truly understand what it means to be forgiven by God. People who think God forgives them no matter what they do or how many times they do it as long as they ask to be forgiven aren't really christian. So a priest who molests children who asks for forgiveness but continues to molest boys and continues the cycle of forgiveness and sin, well guess where they will end up? Hell. They have it wrong. Thats not how God's forgiveness works. Even a christian will go to Hell if they don't know what it means to be a real christian.



Do i believe that a person who does good all their life but doesn't believe in God will go to Hell ? No. Why? Because Hell is for those who sin. Those who have evil in their heart. People who don't believe will most likely be in a place they thought for themselves.



You do realize also that all people who have died are not in heaven or hell yet? In the bible it said God will come down again and thats when all will be judged. So nobody really knows what happens.



You don't need to see Gods miracles to believe in HIm. Either you do or you don't. The reason he put as on earth was to test our faith and give us that free will to chose wether we believe or not. It would defeat his purpose if he has to show us a miracle just to prove he exists. Over the years i think new rules were added into christianity during the old times and still today. I still think people should just be kind to one another. It's the only way we'll survive. All the rest will follow.

JuLeah - posted on 04/26/2011

According to the folks I know who "believe" Yes, if they are over the age of seven, to hell they go. It does not matter the life they lived. It does not matter of they grew up in the middle of the jungle in South America and never met a soul outside of their tribe, to hell they go. Yah, I wanna believe in this God.
The result of sin is death, which is different from everlasting pain and suffering in my opinion, but I was told I was going to hell for even questioning this logic, so there ya have it. To all that don't 'believe', I'll see ya there, save me a seat.

Tyrae - posted on 04/26/2011

I don't believe in THE God that most do, but I do believe that there is something/someone out there like a God, or even multiple "demi" Gods. I believe in an afterlife but I believe that it is what we make of it. We create our own heaven and hell, and that where ever we go we will always be with loved ones.

Valerie - posted on 04/26/2011

god is all forgiving

Jenn - posted on 04/26/2011

Why thank you Tonya:D

Heidi - posted on 04/26/2011

I think (again just my opinion) that it is often forgotten that the Bible is meant to be a guide, a teaching device. While it IS the story of God and God's people, it was still written by man, in some cases many years after the events happened. Ever played the game "telephone" when you were a child? The same thing happens to stories passed down from generation to generation. It has also been proven that there are other gospels out there which tell different stories but the ones which were chosen to be in the Bible were those which supported Church doctrine. I have read all sorts of different beliefs and I truly believe that there have been more to the TRUE story than what we have all been taught throughout the years.

Jay - posted on 04/26/2011

Thanx Rebecca...

But the depression was there long before I stopped the meat! Might ask my doc if it might help to bring it back though? I actually stopped a long time ago when i decided I wasn't worthy of having an animal die for me to live when i could live without that aniaml dying? I dunno if that makes sense? But Im not a veggie pusher or anything, and my son will be fed meet when he starts to eat. but thank you!



And @ toni mander ( I could have the last name wrong there)

your comment is a drop of sunshine! if there is a god i hope you are rightxx

Rebecca - posted on 04/26/2011

Jane, I know it is off topic, but...I too suffer from anxiety and depression (PPD). The anxiety has been a long term thing. I was also a non-meateater for two decades. I didn't know that vegans/veges often have issues with depression. For me, my depression/anxiety has gotten better since bringing meat back into my diet. This has been known to help for others as well.

I know, you did not ask for that advice...so feel free to ignore it!

Jay - posted on 04/26/2011

I havent read any comments, but I am definatly that person. I don't eat animals, I am Married and faithful, I try my best to be a good person and my husband is raising our son Christian (loosely catholic, but he focuses more on the Bible, he reads it every day).
But I can't believe in God, no more than Santa or the Easter Bunny. and I never believed in Santa, at the age of 2/3 I knew my mum was the one giving me presents and at 5 i told her that, and she said 'lets play Father Christmas anyway...''
I do hope my son believes in God though. I would love to have the faith my husband has. I have searched since about 12 years old for a Religion I believe in, but I just can't convince myself. I have suffered from depression, Anxiety and panic attacks on and off all my life (from about 8 years old). I panic about dying and the nothingness that comes.
I wish I could believe in God, but I just can't, and therefor don't believe that there is a hell to burn in.
But i hope i am wrong, even burning in a hell for not believing something I couldn't get my head around would be better than just ending......x

Mabel - posted on 04/26/2011

@Jenn ,You put that so eloquently!! Love it and thanks for posting the new link.

Jenn - posted on 04/26/2011

Tara- I couldn't agree more:)

Shannen - posted on 04/26/2011

What Tara said. Exactly what Tara said. But heck i'll party in hell if i have to.

Jenn - posted on 04/26/2011

There are different types of atheists first of all, not every atheist believe in absolutely bottom line no god, afterlife.. etc.For more clarification see this: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=6487 The term atheist is used very broadly. And i also must have missed this "proof" everyone speaks of because i also have yet to see hard evidence of gods existence. I believe in things that cannot be explained but i find it ridiculous when people think that god will solve their every problem and blame things like their childs behavior, etc on them not following god etc. I think a lot of people use god as an excuse. Sorry just my opinion. As i said. I believe that there are unexplained things at play in the universe but i do not see god as a supreme being that cares and controls the daily lives of over 6 billion people. More like a higher force, like gravity, that just keep things working the way the are supposed to work and doesn't really care if we like it or not. I also believe that death is not the end, that there is an afterlife, however i a not entirely sure what it consists of, but i definitely 100 percent believe in the paranormal and spirits, etc. But no matter what anybody tries to say not one person on this planet has cold hard evidence of gods existence-or lack off. I don't think that sinners will burn in hell (or homosexuals, or whoever else). I do not believe that you have to go to church every Sunday and read the bible and pray every day to earn your way to heaven. What i cannot stand people that try to shove their religion down other peoples throats or try to sell you things or tell you that donating money or buying such and such thing will bring you closer to god. It is a scam and it is pathetic. That is not what religion should be about. Like those Jehovah's peddling their crap door to door, i have no patience for them whatsoever or anyone else who does the same.Everyone has the right to believe in what they want to believe and if it helps you through hard times or gives you a reason to keep going every day then even better. But it really irks me when people go on about the bible being "gods word" as if god himself literally sat down and wrote the bible. PEOPLE wrote the bible and i think a lot of it is BS. Not to mention that people misinterpret it A LOT. The way it is theists claim that god exists, i have however no reason to believe that there is a god. I am simply rejecting it on the basis that i have seen no evidence. You should be able to back up what you believe, the fact that many people cant says much about their beliefs, don't you think.

Shana - posted on 04/26/2011

If I do not fall under god's jurisdiction because I do not believe, then I do not go to his hell. End of story. If I don't believe in it, why on earth would only certain point affect me but not the others. I don't believe therefore I 1) won't be forgiven but 2) will still burn in your hell? Nah thanks.

Jackie - posted on 04/26/2011

AMEN Krista!

Desiree - posted on 04/26/2011

I believe in the concept of free will. When we choose to do some thing whether it is good or bad we choose the hell. For whatever the reason we choose our own hell, I am not sure if if it a hell after we pass from this world to whatever is waiting for us in the next. But I do know that there is a hell in this world stuck in our own minds for the choice we make and create.

Krista - posted on 04/26/2011

I'm just thinking out loud here.

I find it funny that a document that is considered to be the "Word of God" is so open to interpretation that we now have a rather ridiculously broad range of thought on what was actually said and meant. You've got your hardline, Bible-thumping, fire-and-brimstone, "y'all are going to burn in Hell" fundamentalist Christians, and then you have your inclusive, gentle, thoughtful, "my god is a loving god" Christians.

Part of me wonders if it's almost rendered the word "Christianity" meaningless, if it can mean both of those extremes, as well as every stop in between.

I mean, you'd think that if the Christian god is so keen on us following him, he'd send us an update every 500-600 years or so, clarifying what it is that he actually stands for...

Jen - posted on 04/26/2011

I will make sticky buns for the roadtrip to Hell for everyone.

Ashley=) - posted on 04/26/2011

If all i do is not good enough in the end, i will party along with ya Cathy S.lol:-P

Ashley=) - posted on 04/26/2011

Sometimes from what i hear and see, from really devoted Christians etc.no i can't say devoted as i know many devoted religious people who would not think this way.Some religious people go way to far.It becomes there own personal view i think.
God sounds to me, well nothing i grew up learning god was.I think its sad and its to control others.I believe god is good and no harm,judgment or control is associated with his name.They way i see it is, we will know the truth one day when we meet the man above.Only he can judge us at the very end.I live life now honest and good.I pray and i wake each morning with a grateful heart for all i have.Thanks to him.
I teach my daughters the same.I do not attend a church.

Shannon - posted on 04/26/2011

I believe in God, do i believe my God would send someone to burn for not believing in him, not at all. I do believe there is a hell but it is right here on earth. We are faced with Good and evil everyday. I am not overly religious, i don't feel i have to be, i do not press my beliefs on anyone and i do not judge anyone for not having my same beliefs. I believe we were created to have differences of opinions, Life would be so boring if we all thought alike, looked alike etc. Everyone comes to their own beliefs in their own time, I have known God my entire life and not because someone told me he existed or because i was lied to and made to believe. I have my own memories of things that happened that led me to believe.

Heidi - posted on 04/26/2011

I was raised in church. I believe in God. I have seen His work in my life too many times to count. However, the beliefs that I have formed over my lifetime are slightly different than those any organized religion teaches. I do believe in Heaven, but do not believe that I have to be in church every Sunday to get there. I feel that it is more of a practice what you preach sort of thing. If you live by His commandments, and treat every person you meet with love and kindness, repent of your sins, and try your very hardest to lead a good and faithful life, you get to go to Heaven. However, I also feel that Hell is walking the Earth for eternity, not spending an eternity burning. I always say I've done my time in Hell, I'm going to Heaven for sure!

Stephanie - posted on 04/26/2011

I believe in God and Jesus Christ and teach my children about them. I've never met anyone who believes the same way as I do. I am not a 'by the book' person. I think the bible is incredibly flawed and alot of it is completely ridiculous. I do not believe in a hell as described. I believe in a creator, a loving father who would never set me on fire and let me burn for eternity bc I disobeyed him. What kind of father would be so cruel? That is pure evil and that is not what God represents. As any loving parent, he guides us and nurtures us, always wanting the best for us. And when we make mistakes he is there with open arms ready to receive and comfort us. He would never hurt us.

Jackie - posted on 04/26/2011

I would also like to add that this is possibly the BEST thread I've ever read.

Jackie - posted on 04/26/2011

Ditto Tara! verbatim.

Cathy - posted on 04/26/2011

I don't actually believe in Hell!

Cathy - posted on 04/26/2011

My response ...

If God exists he will judge me by my free willed actions to my fellow humans ... an if he doesn't then he's welcome to spend eternity with all the born again rapists, murders, etc, who follow in fear instead of love and I'll go party with the devil in hell.

Tara - posted on 04/26/2011

As an agnostic I honestly don't care if Christians think I will burn in the eternal fires of hell for not accepting jesus as my saviour. To me, Jesus was just a man who had a lot of good things to say, he was a hippie, an activist and a public speaker, he was peaceful and kind and accepting and tolerant, but he was just a man like all other men.
I am energy as is everything. My energy will continue on in another form when my body dies. That is the basis of my belief system and I don't see how that could mean I will end up in hell.
The arrogance of the Christian faith astounds me sometimes. If a Catholic priests molests a generation of young boys, but he repents and he confesses then he will still get his golden ticket to heaven. But I who live a simple and modest lifestyle, who is respectful of myself and others, who strives to be a good person and to bring up my kids as good people, and we are going to hell???? ROFLMFAO!!

Sarah - posted on 04/26/2011

Well, I consider myself a "Christian," but definitely NOT the type of Christian that I grew up as. I feel as though I've evolved in my thoughts & beliefs. I just can NOT accept (no offense to anyone) that 'simple minded/judgmental' mentality that a lot of the Christians I know (not all!) have.



I do not believe that a "loving" God has the ability to send someone to hell. In fact, I don't believe in a literal hell at all. And no, of course I don't have all the answers as to 'what happens when we die.' But, I do believe that everything is energy (including us as humans) & that energy (according to science) will be ongoing. As to what happens to our "conscience mind," I have no idea. Maybe it enters into a whole new dimension of conscientiousness.

Krista - posted on 04/26/2011

I think it is a scare tactic to keep everyone under control and doing what they are told.

Ya think? ;)

Joy - posted on 04/25/2011

I say "EXACTLY" to the OP's question. I am a conscientions person who simply cannot believe in the concept of God. I don't think I'd ever burn in any hell, even if I believed for a second one existed.

April - posted on 04/25/2011

Nobody really knows what will happen when we die, the only way to find out is when we are dead. I guess thats the safest way to put it. :)

Rebecca - posted on 04/25/2011

So then what happens to those who feel that there might be something out there, but they aren't gonna presume to know what that is? Do they get a snap, crackle, pop?

Mabel - posted on 04/25/2011

I think it is a scare tactic to keep everyone under control and doing what they are told.

April - posted on 04/25/2011

But don't atheist believe that if they die thats the end of the road? No afterlife? Christians believe in an afterlife with God because they believe in God and what is written in the bible. They believe in heaven and hell. So to say that one who doesn't believe in God will go to hell doesn't really mean much for the person who doesn't believe in the afterlife in the first place.

Mabel - posted on 04/25/2011

uuummmmm did I miss the proof because I am an atheist and I still don't see the proof that god is real or exists and as for heaven being real doesn't god have to be so heaven can be too???

Jen - posted on 04/25/2011

Why wouldn't they want to be with your god? They needed proof he existed and now they have it. In other words, they're still being punished for not having evidence.

And there is no absolute standard.

Sarah - posted on 04/25/2011

It's a matter of personal choice. If someone has no interest or belief in God during this life, why would they want to spend eternity with Him anyway?

Also as far as morality goes, we each have our own standards as to what is good or bad. Many paedophiles, can see nothing wrong with what they do, for example. Surely it's better to have an absolute standard by which we stand or fall. By that standard none of us is perfect. Even the most loving, kind well-behaved atheist will have done something they're not proud of at some point in their life.

Jen - posted on 04/25/2011

But is that poofing out of existence (and I have a little poof noise in my head when I type that LOL) fair either? Why not still get the cookie for the good behavior?

Toni - posted on 04/25/2011

I don't feel that none believers are destined to burn in hell, actually I don't believe in hell - I believe in a forgiving, loving God rather than one who would condemn a good person for not believing in him. My reasoning for this is that surely a person who does not believe in God and so does not believe in the reward of heaven who chooses to still live life in a moral and good way is a better person than the religious one who chooses to do good things so they can go to heaven as the first is good for no reward other than being a good person.

Minnie - posted on 04/25/2011

I would say that as a Christian, I do not believe in a literal, fire and brimstone hell for unbelievers upon death. Sheol, the grave is simply separation from God. The lake of fire itself is destruction...not sure it means literal lake of fire.

Not all Christians believe that a loving God sends unbelievers to burn in agony for eternity. Many believe they simply 'poof' out of existence, ie. destruction, the second death.

Krista - posted on 04/25/2011

That is also why I have issues with some of the main tenets of Christianity. The guy down the street could rob, lie, cheat, steal, and hurt countless people. But, if he genuinely repents in his heart and accepts "the lord", then he gets into Heaven and is rewarded with eternal bliss. And yet, an atheist who has never hurt another human being in his life, who has done good works, has helped others, and who has had love in his heart all of his life, but who just CANNOT believe in the Christian god, is destined to go to Hell and suffer for all eternity?

What an absurd system that is!!!

Jen - posted on 04/25/2011

Because the religion itself is immoral. After all, is it really moral to punish anyone infinitely for a finite crime?

Lucy - posted on 04/25/2011

This is exactly why I'm not a fan of most organised world religions.

People who have the arrogance to think that they have the exclusive ticket to paradise and those who don't agree with their book (which ever religious text it might be) are damned, even if they have lived a good life. that attitude sucks.