canadian judge orders parents to remove breathing tube from child

Rosie - posted on 02/24/2011 ( 24 moms have responded )

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http://video.foxnews.com/v/4552208/famil...

so, what do you think? i think these people are selfish arseholes, but ultimately have the right to do what they deem fit for their child. can you imagine, some judge telling you how you should spend the last few months with your terminally ill child. it really rubs me the wrong way.

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Sharon - posted on 02/24/2011

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Tara - the baby is going to die no matter what. The parents think the Trach will extend the babys' life at their home. the hospital has a court order to remove the breathing tube - THE BABY WILL DIE. IF as the doctors say, he is in a vegetative state - what does it matter? And "just so he can die at home" JUST? Really? Where's the compassion for the feeling humans in this? So he can JUST die at home in the arms of his loving devoted parents. JUST.

At any rate - I was wondering if that was the most recent update and did a search and found a very piecemeal video that shows the baby isn't in a vegetative state...

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusi...

Tara - posted on 02/24/2011

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I wouldn't be surprised if they change their mind now. I would bet money that they will be allowed to bring their son home to die.
I think the Hospital and doctors made a seriously bad judgment call on this one. However I take issue with the commentators comments about our health care system here.
This is one instance, admittedly a very extreme example of losing your rights as a patient but in no way represents Canadian Health Care in general. And is still preferable over any kind of privatized system where disease and sickness equal profit and the rich get treatment that the poor cannot afford.

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Katherine - posted on 02/25/2011

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@ Cathy, giving him a trach would allow him to go home and be on life support. They would use a breathing machine there.

Jenni - posted on 02/25/2011

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I love how Fox News exploits this family's suffering to encourage their own Capitalist, Conservative agenda. Not that it's unusual or surprising. I think they deserve a standing ovation for being the douchiest news network in North America, possibly the World.
I can't understand HOW such a bias, false reporting, evil broadcast could ever be considered NEWS. They should be placed in the genre of entertainment... as in TMZ for politicians. I'd say they should feel ashamed but I think you need a soul to experience emotions like shame.

This poor child should be let go IMO. But I also think the parents should have the right to decide how they want their child to pass. But I can see how this is a unique case if the child would need a tracheotomy in order to leave the hospital. I feel if that's the case the doctors are opposed to it because they do not want to be responsible for further suffering of the infant.
That poor family having to endure something like this not just once but twice. If I was in that position I think I'd just want to be with my child for as many moments as I could before they passed. I don't think I'd be concerned with court or interviews, I think what would be best for my family is not to be disturbed.

Katherine - posted on 02/25/2011

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The situation is more of an ethical one than anything else. It really has nothing to do with the father's wishes.
It's like the case of Terri Schiavo. Someone has to advocate for this child. I read he's been in this state since last fall. Obviously nothing can be done for the poor thing. The thing I don't get is when the father said he was "fine" at Children's Hospital in Michigan....what does THAT mean?
First he wanted him tranferred back to MI, now he wants a trach and sent home. I can totally see the judges point of view on this one. His sister had it done already and suffered.
It's all about what's ethical and morally right IMO. And like Tara said they are wasting time.

Sharon - posted on 02/25/2011

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See? People still aren't making sense. The doctors are claiming the baby is brain DEAD. So what difference does it make if they do the trach and send the breathing ? body home?

Tara - posted on 02/25/2011

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Marylea, thanks for posting that link. Again I say the doctors are acting in the best interest of this child, who ultimately is the patient in this case.
The parents want the same treatment as was given to their daughter who died of the same neuro-degenerative disease as this baby. However doctors have since learned a lot more about this disease and even then were reluctant to do the tracheotomy but performed it for their daughter, they have decided not to perform it this time because again they have learned more about this illness and ultimately feel there would be more suffering for this baby.
They are spending their last days on tv doing interviews with the press, meeting with lawyers and fighting to allow their son to die at home. If it were me, I would be spending every minute I could with my baby, in a place that I know he will not suffer, (they can and would give him pain medication when removing the tube so that he does not experience the agony of choking to death).
I would want to lay with him, and cuddle him and hold him and love him just as they do, but for me I wouldn't be taking this time to fight the issue of WHERE I do that. I would just want to be with him while he passed on.
What a waste of their last days with their child...

Meghan - posted on 02/24/2011

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*sigh*
Right off the bat I thought that I would pull my child off and bring him home with me, but I can also understand wanting to do everything you possibly can for your child. The baby looks pretty young. Sometimes my favorite moments with my almost 2 1/2 year old are watching him sleep and breath in and out-looking at his perfect little face while he is peaceful and not talking back. I can totally understand not wanting to give that up ever-as selfish as it may be. I don't know what I would do if I knew that I wasn't going to get to experience that ever again. :(

Nikkole - posted on 02/24/2011

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For me i think i would want the baby at home to die on its own instead of hooked up on a bunch of crap at the hospital but its a very hard choice and a bad situation i never want to be in!

April - posted on 02/24/2011

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That's so sad, i don't even know what to say. I feel sorry for the family and that poor little boy. That's the worst situation to be in. :(

Sharon - posted on 02/24/2011

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Oh and if the baby is actually brain dead - no amount of pain would get anything but a baseline nerve reaction - the "baby" wouldn't feel a damned thing. So why not assuage the parents grief and send the babys' body home to die? The brain is dead they say - to the "baby" is gone. fuck.

Sharon - posted on 02/24/2011

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If they had been a rich white family - this would NEVER have happened.

Marylea - posted on 02/24/2011

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This is very a sad circumstance and although I totally understand not wanting to give up your child, this baby has been deemed brain dead. I don't think its right for the courts to order his breathing tube removed but his quality of life is said to be very low and doctors have ruled he'll never recover which the parents don't believe. Here's a link to a much more in depth report of what is going on.



http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/...

Katherine - posted on 02/24/2011

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So let me get this all straight.....one child has already died from peculiar circumstances and now this child has the same?
This whole situation is effed up. It doesn't say how long this baby has been in a vegetative state, or WHAT exactly is wrong. Just a neurological disorder. I am just gathering info from you guys.
I can't even have an opinion on this, because of course I want the baby to LIVE, but I also don't want the baby to suffer :(

Rosie - posted on 02/24/2011

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jamie i think the parents are being selfish arseholes. what they want will make their child who is going to die regardless be in more pain, and prolong this pain.
but, like i stated before, i do feel it is ultimately their decision to do what they want to with their child. i don't like the idea of government stepping in and basically killing off your children when they deem necessary.
and tara, it's from fox news, they're going to do anything to paint your guy's healthcare system as evil and socialist. a FB friend had this posted on his wall this morning with his little 2 cents thrown in about how all of us obama lovers are going to love this when this comes to our country!! *eyeroll*

Sal - posted on 02/24/2011

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i might have this wrong but from what i gather the argument is over the traciotomy??? everyone is in agreement that he is going to die and the parents want this procedure to take him home for his last days, i can not believe that they are spending the last precious days/week/months of their babies life in court, for me spending that time cuddling and talking to your little one and supporting each other is time better spent than in court fighting for an invasive procedure that isn't going to enhance his life just so he can die at home, my heart break for the parents but i can't agree with them, isn't the medical professions oath, first do no harm, the operation site could be come infected and cause unesersary pain, i watched my hubbies nan be bought home to die, it took her 8 days, no pain relief no feeding it was the most vile thing i have ever seen and wouldn't wish it on anybody...it is going to be traumtic for parents no matter how it happens i couldn't live with my self if my actions caused more pain.

Sharon - posted on 02/24/2011

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Because we faced this, I've thought about it a lot. And I'm still torn. Would I want to be in the sterile hospital environment waiting for my child to die? Or would I want to be hom in my favorite chair wrapped in my favorite blanket, holding my baby in my arms while they passed in the warm love of my home?

Would I want those sad memories always there every time I saw the blanket? Sat in the chair? Would they be totally sad? Would that memory of his sweet baby smell just be one of those perks?

IF especially as the family wants - the baby would live at home for a few days and lose that antiseptic hospital smell.

Many of you have done it. But you had hope. Sat in the NICU (Newborn Intensive Care Unit). I sat in a level 5 (or was it 4?) for 7 days. Watching names deceased dates pop up next to baby names. Nurses knew instantly when they walk in to the unit what babies had made it and didn't.

Jackie - posted on 02/24/2011

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I think it is strange the parents would want their child to die in their home. I think the hospital is wise to keep the child in the hospital, where it can die and then whatever studies can be done without any accidental or purposeful changes are done to the body.

Tara - posted on 02/24/2011

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Okay after reading more to this story, it appears that in order for the baby to go home to die, he must first have a tracheotomy so that he can breathe without the breathing machine, his request to Michigan to do the tracheotomy was denied by Michigan as well as the London hospital he is in. They are not willing to do the procedure because the baby is and has been in a vegetative state due to a neurological disorder. So it's not like they are saying "you can't take your kid home" they are saying "he cannot breathe without a machine, we will not perform a tracheotomy on this child"
So what the parents want is for their infant to have another procedure in order for THEM to be able to spend their last days with him. He is in a vegetative state.
I don't think they have his best interests in mind, and I think they are taking it too far.If it were just a matter of the hospital saying "no you can't take him" fine. But really they should just say "Fine you can take him. But in order for him to leave the hospital he must be removed from the breathing machine." He will die, no doubt. But he will die at home too, simply slower breathing through a hole in his throat where he will likely die from an infection or heart failure.
I think the doctors have the right to request consent to disconnect his breathing machine, and I think they should make sure he is receiving plenty of morphine so that he has no pain.
It's sad, but if it were my kid I think that's the route I would go.
Again, the difference being the need for the tracheotomy, just so he can die at home instead of in hospital.

Sharon - posted on 02/24/2011

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Ok - from this video - I don't think they are selfish assholes. No one knows what is wrong with the baby. They'd like a diagnosis.

Now the Canadian hospital wants the baby dead. But on their terms NOT on the familys' terms.

The family would like to take the baby home to die if that is what has to happen. But the hospital says NO? WTF?

Ok so - I found another video - same site. the hospital says the baby is terminal and in a permanent vegetative state.

It sounds like the family is resigned that the baby is going to die, but they want to prolong life as long as possible and they want, what I think is an, extreme measure. They want the baby trached. Where a hole is cut in the windpipe. The family thinks this will allow the baby to breathe on its on.

The doctors say it will hurt the baby and leave it open to infection, but uh? DUH! Baby is dying, by infection or smothering? Is one better than the other? "Permenant Vegetative State" um isn't that one step short of bain dead? Will the baby actually feel pain? Will the brain process those signals?

I think they need to respect the familys' wishes.

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...so who are the ones being "selfish arseholes" the parents who want their child to die at home if he can't be saved or the hospital that doesn't seem to want to give the baby the best care available? according to the father in the video, the baby was cared for in a Michigan hospital and came home happy and healthy, but in the Canadian hospital, they're saying they just want to let him die. is that really right? just letting the boy die? i don't think so. i also think it's wrong that the family has no rights in this situation, that they are unable to take their son home and care for him in a place where he might feel safer in his last days and at least a little more comfortable without all the stark white of the hospital rooms.

Jodi - posted on 02/24/2011

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I would need to read more on it to REALLY form an opinion, but on what I have seen, I think the hospital is wrong to take away the rights of the parents. As he said, he wants to take his baby home to die, but the hospital won't even let him do that. As a parent, I think that should be his right to request, and given the terminal nature of the situation, it should be granted.

However, I think what really DOES bother me is that it appear they don't even know what is wrong with the baby, and given they had one die previously of a similar condition, wouldn't you think they be doing some testing to see what it is that is causing this? But I guess, very little information has been given on what sort of testing HAS been done, so it is difficult to know if all has been done that could be done.

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