Cesareans.

Sarah - posted on 04/11/2011 ( 205 moms have responded )

5,465

31

331

Ok, so bear with me, I'm trying to get all my thoughts in order! lol



I've been thinking a lot about c-sections lately, a couple of threads I've seen have me wondering.



I'll start with the fact that I myself had a c-section with my youngest as she was breech. I had a great experience, very little recovery time, got to hold baby straight away etc. I couldn't fault my c-section at all. My vaginal birth with my eldest was the complete opposite! Nightmare, blood transfusions, a week in hospital, took ages to recover.



Anyway, I loved my c-section, BUT once I got home and out and about and people asked me about the birth, the negativity I got for having a c-section really surprised me. Comments like "You took the easy way out then" and "Oh no! That must have been SO awful, you must be SO heartbroken to have missed out on a REAL birth"

It actually made me start doubting myself, wondering if I SHOULD feel all heartbroken, if I HAD been a wimp and taken the easy way out.



I soon got over that though, I realised there actually were other women out there that had enjoyed their c-section, that I had done the best thing for me and the baby and that I wasn't a weirdo! (well, not because of that anyway! haha)



So I'm wondering now if perhaps some women feel bad and depressed about their c-section because it's portrayed as the way you SHOULD feel after one. I wonder if other people paint such a dim view of them, that it leads people to think they're always a bad thing.



I've also noticed that a lot of articles advocating VBAC's, tend to start of with a paragraph or two about some poor women who has has a horrific c-section experience.......why do they need to demonise the c-section to highlight how great VBAC's can be?! Can't VBAC's be great without slamming c-sections first?



I want to add here that I know some women do have bad c-section experiences, just like women have bad vaginal deliveries. I'm not trying to say we should all rush out and have c-sections.

I'm also not against VBAC's or natural births, I think women should have the choices they want.......I just don't get why c-sections have attained such a bad reputation.



Sorry, what a ramble! lol Your thoughts? :)

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Mary - posted on 04/13/2011

3,348

31

119

April, please tell me that your post is in jest?!

First of all, your description is.....hmmmm.....melodramatic is the nicest word I can come up with at present.

I was absolutely appalled by how close the scissors and scalpel were to the baby's head!

Well, yes, the baby's head is just on the other side of that uterine wall and the do need to open up the uterus to get the baby out. Unfortunately, sharp instruments are kind of necessary to cut through that muscle; tapping on it politely with a cotton-tipped applicator and whispering "Open Sesame!" has yet to work.

As for pulling them out upside down....you do realize that only happens with a malpresentation such as breech or transverse, right? If the baby is head down, they are delivered head first. I've seen hundreds of babies born via C/S, and have never seen the theatrics you are describing.

However, your post does rather prove Sarah's point in her OP.

Mary - posted on 04/13/2011

3,348

31

119

Maybe if more moms had great c sections when necessary there would be less depression after the surgeries. - Laura



I understand what you are saying, but the problem with this is twofold.



If a section is being done for an emergent reason, such as fetal distress, abruption, or a prolapsed cord, there isn't time for the little "niceties". By it's emergent nature, it is going to be scary and stressful. The staff aren't able to ease you into it, or set the stage for an optimal cesarean birth experience; they are racing to get that baby out ASAP in an effort to preserve brain function.



It would be similar to showing up in the ER with a ruptured appendix. Time is of the essence in getting that appendix out, and most people are fine with things moving at the speed of light, and accept that they are not in control. Although an emergent section is a birth, it is also an emergent surgical procedure, which, by it's nature, is going to be more similar to that appendectomy.



The other factor is the status of the baby in response to whatever issue made that section emergent. A lot of those babies require some form of resuscitative measure, thereby eliminating the possibility of immediate bonding time with the parents. I fully understand how disappointing and heartbreaking that can be, but it is often unavoidable for the long term health and well-being of that baby. Losing that initial bonding time after birth is sometimes necessary to make a lifetime of bonding moments possible.





The only time you and your caregivers can set the stage for a "great" cesarean birth, and when the "experience" can be among the priorities is with a scheduled or non-emergent section.

Esther - posted on 04/15/2011

3,513

32

144

It's both. Doctors usually know what's best. More often than Googling moms-to-be in my opinion. But they ARE still human and yes, every once in a while they do make mistakes. When it comes to the wellbeing of my child however, I will most definitely rather put my faith in a professional who went to school for years and years to study this stuff and has been through the procedure hundreds of times over a mom on COMs who read this interesting article on the internet. But that's just me.

Jenni - posted on 04/13/2011

5,928

34

373

Wow. April. I didn't realize c-sections aren't always the most optimal method of birth. Thanks for clearing up my ignorance on the topic. I guess I should have told the doctors that I don't care if my children die in childbirth, or I die in childbirth. I just want to have them vaginally at all costs. *eye roll*



It's amazing. As soon as all the c-sectioners get together and start giving each other a little pep talk to help accept the fact that they didn't have their ideal birth. Someone has to come along and tell us how horrible we are and how near death our children were because we had to undergo an operation to give birth. So not only did we not get our ideal birth... we have to have salt rubbed in old wounds about how we suck for not being able to give birth the way we were meant to. *bravo*

ME - posted on 04/15/2011

2,978

18

190

I had a c-section, and I liked it ;-) After 23 hours of labor and almost losing my son due to my own refusal to cooperate with the doctors, I only wish that I'd relented sooner. I'm sure that part of the reason that I did not was because of all the negative press given to c-sections. Because of the type of problem that caused Miles to be born c-section (my structural idiosyncrasies), they told me that Mayah would almost certainly go to a c-section as well...I couldn't put myself through that whole ordeal again, and simply scheduled the c-section for her. I don't listen to people who've tried to demean my experiences (and try they have). They weren't there. I have two beautiful children, just the same as women who give birth vaginally. I won't second guess any of it; it would do no good...

If you see this, leave this form field blank.
Powered by RESPECT not THUMPS

205 Comments

View replies by

Valarie - posted on 04/20/2011

3

20

1

I had an emergency C-section at 25 weeks for my twins. VERY traumatic, but the c itself was not horrible (almost 20 years ago) tried V-bac with my next 18 hours and 4 hours of pushing later another c-section... decided then and there that ... Pencil me in! I too have heard all the comments "easy way out"!! Try to explain the seven layers of stitches inside and the staples outside, holding your stomach in because it feels like it may just fall out....let them think it... I've had 4 total, and wouldn't trade it for anything! (if THAT pain makes them "more" of a woman than I... more power to em!!) :)

Valarie - posted on 04/20/2011

3

20

1

I had an emergency C-section at 25 weeks for my twins. VERY traumatic, but the c itself was not horrible (almost 20 years ago) tried V-bac with my next 18 hours and 4 hours of pushing later another c-section... decided then and there that ... Pencil me in! I too have heard all the comments "easy way out"!! Try to explain the seven layers of stitches inside and the staples outside, holding your stomach in because it feels like it may just fall out....let them think it... I've had 4 total, and wouldn't trade it for anything! (if THAT pain makes them "more" of a woman than I... more power to em!!) :)

Brittany - posted on 04/18/2011

453

30

48

I never had a c-section, so I can pull no experience from that. Personally, when women get c-sections because of the convenience factor, I think that's a little messed up. If they do it because it's medically necessary there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it. I have two children, both born vaginally, with my first, I went into labor naturally in my own time and with the second I was induced because my daughter was diagnosed in the womb as having a pelvic kidney. I had an epidural with the first, which I have caught a lot of grief for, and with the second I did it all on my own but that was because labor moved too fast to do anything once they broke my water. I didn't enjoy any birth more then the other (except my daughters took 8 hours from the time I was admitted until she was born and my sons took 36 from when labor began until he was born).

My MIL however, she really irks me how she "parented" her children if you even want to call it that. My husband's earliest memories of his mother are her lying in bed damn near comatose, she had a demerol addiction for many years.

Any way, that's not my point. When we were having our first child she was telling me how she got c-sections with all three of her children. She did it out of convenience, she told me how she scheduled them in between rock concerts, and this party and that party. I was sickened. I don't believe in c-sections without medical necessity. It's a medical procedure and should be treated as such. Sure, vaginal births aren't fun but getting a c-section isn't the way around it, it's equally not as fun!

Erin - posted on 04/18/2011

6,569

25

232

And here is part of the problem. Misinformation. As Toni said, there is no 'trauma' to the baby in being pushed through the birth canal (assuming there are no genuine complications). It is a well-designed process to squeeze amniotic fluid from baby's lungs and expose it to good bacteria in the vagina.

I believe in a woman's right to choose a c-section. But don't do so based on incorrect assumptions, myths or misunderstandings.

[deleted account]

The "trauma of pushing" isn't actually a trauma to the child unless something is wrong and the labour isn't going as should be. The pushing actually has a function to help clear babies lungs so they can breathe properly - why would you want to avoid that?

Lissy - posted on 04/17/2011

28

19

1

Don't beat yourself up over this at all! The fact that you carried those babies in your womb is a huge thing within it's self. I do not feel that the way you have your babies makes you any less of a woman no matter how it happens. When I found out that I was pregnant, and at my first appointment with my Doctors office I met with the Nurse Practitioner to take the urine test to confirm I was pregnant. Then I was explained how the office does things and scheduled my next appointment then was asked if I had any questions about the months to come. My first question was "can I have a C-section?" I did not want the baby top go through the trauma of the pushing and the pain. I also did not want to deal with an episiotomy and not knowing when the baby was going to actually come. I ended up having sever toxemia, preeclampsia and I was on bed rest from 7 1/2 month to 8 months. I had no feeling in my hands and my arms ached all of the time. My legs were so swollen I could hardly walk and they ached too. I could hardly catch my breath just sitting still. My pregnancy was horribly painful. I ended up having to have my son at 8 months via emergency c-section. I had no choice at that point, they had to get him out of there ASAP. So since I didn't have a drawn out painful birth am I less of a woman? I give all of the kudos in the world to the woman who pushed and struggled for hours to give birth to their children. However, we brought life into the world with our bodies and I do not feel that how it all happened is relevant.

My first child was adopted, I heard all the time that I took the easy way out by doing that too! My adoption was what they call "step- parent adoption" I had that baby since she was 6 months old and I am the only person she has ever called Mommy. Her (what we like to call) incubator wanted my husband to marry her and did not want the baby after he said he would raise the baby but he was not marrying her. He did just that. This is a long drawn out off topic situation and story however, the point is that I fought tooth and nail to be her Mother and I spent many nights awake crying over her while holding her as she slept not knowing if she would have been taken from me. I wanted nothing more than to have that child as my own. My daughter has never left my side and by the time she was 5 no one could ever take her from me. It was easier to become my son's mother even with all of the issues with my pregnancy than to become my adopted daughters mother with all of the legal things and other peoples opinions. I love them the same ..... their is no difference between my love for them. They are both blessings from God. My daughter is 18 now and we have such a great bond and relationship. My son is 20 months and just plain awesome.
Being a Mom and becoming a Mom is just plain hard work! Work that is actually a blessing !!!!!

Corrie - posted on 04/17/2011

311

27

15

I have to add to that, i didn't have a Cesarean with my first and i'm terrified of a complication that might mean i have to with my second (due in 3 weeks). I like reading that so many women have had successful C sections and it's encouraged me that in the event of one, i might spring back as i did with my first. However, a Vaginal birth, with as little pain releif as possible, is my choice, my only choice, and anything else is up to fate.

[deleted account]

I think for the 4 days i was in before i had my complication.Which could of easily killed my baby.My c-section was a blessing.My recovery was fantastic.I was up and out of the bed just hours later.I understand not many have had this experience but many have.
Also for the many who have had bad experience's its hard for them to believe how well i did.Many did not until the saw me.LoL

Corrie - posted on 04/17/2011

311

27

15

I haven't read everyones responses here, and maybe i will when i'm in the mood, but the term;
"too posh to push"
Really riles me.
I think if i a woman has a first time elective cesarean because she wants to save her vagina, she's a poor excuse for a woman.
If i woman has an elective to save herself or her child in the event of something going wrong or because she is a high risk pregnancy, it's acceptable, understandable and totally relevant. if she has a VBAC with a subsequent child, good on her, she should be proud of doing it, because it's difficult and not necessarily most womens first option or even and option at all.
There is nothing wrong with having a C section because you need it. An emergency C section is even more understandable. No one has the right to tell you otherwise.
I think they are so frowned upon because a lot of women have an elective these days to "save themselves and their figure" of course, it's not always so, and it is seen as a 'Way out' of the hard work, but come on, anyone who has had a C knows FINE WELL it isn't easy. The aftercare is often harder and longer and some people are just total idiots for saying otherwise.
I personally think having a vaginal birth is a very amazing and womanly thing, and if a woman wants to have children or has children, she should experience it. It was wonderful, fantastic, a good and strong pain and as much a part of the bond i have with my child as anything that has happened since. But it isn't for everyone.
I suppose it's a womans choice at the end of the day and though it would annoy me if a woman had an elective for no other reason than to "not have as much bother" or for the aesthetic, i couldn't say anything because i'm that sort of person.

[deleted account]

Loved my c-section and recovered super fast.Even the doc's were very suprised and other mothers who had them before me.lol



I was home 2days later.I tell others to not fear them.I am very positive when i talk about c-section as my experience was positive.

If others don't want to hear my story when they ask me to tell them about it.As i never pushed my baby out of my vagina this time around,then so be it.



Its there ignorance.I feel.:-(





So i let it go over my head.If they want to learn something, my story has opened up others eyes and i have made then not fear c-sections.I am happy i can do that.I feared them before i had to get one.I wonder why lol

:-)

Toni - posted on 04/15/2011

139

50

12

With my 1st c-section is was actually my midwife who said it would happen. One of the other midwives suggested we wait for the dr but my midwife said if we wait that baby is dead ..... thank god she was in the room with me. She had me prepped, op room ready and dr called and 15mins later i met the OB for the first time and then my little guy.



Edit: well I met my little guy longer than 15 mins but still lol

Nikki - posted on 04/15/2011

17

13

0

I had an emergancy c-section with my son, and the entire 4 days leading up to it and weeks after were a nightmare. BUT my daughter was a repeat c-section and it wasn't anything like my sons birth. I held her right away, I heard her cry (all these I missed with my son, I don't remember my sons birth) the recovery was fast and reletivly easy (as easy as it can with a 15 month old and a newborn) Its not the easy way out, its what works best for you. I don't ever want to give birth the "natural way" my first experiance was a nightmare.

[deleted account]

Marina I wasn't judging anyone, I know that not everyone is able to stand up to doctors, but that is because generally people feel inferior to them (when they shouldn't), if mums took the time to understand the basics of pregnancy and childbirth - such as pain relief available and the basic pros and cons then more women would feel able to say 'wait a minute that's not right' or 'why do you think that is this not possible?' rather than just blindly following what they are told - even if they feel it is wrong. You yourself said that you found it better second time round as you were more educated on birthing postions. That is all I was saying education helps reduce unnecessary treatments.

[deleted account]

Hi! *waves* I'vebeen gone for a few days and this took right off. I don't have time to catch up now...

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

Ok Dana, no problem.

Toni, NOT ALL FIRST TIME MOMS FEEL THAT WAY. Please don't judge people becouse they may not feel the same as you. It is a sensative subject. I am the biggest loud mouth, stand up for my rights kind of a person, but I felt at the mercy of the Doctors. This is common. You may not have, but be sensative to others that couldn't do what you did. Kudos to you, but still.

Dana - posted on 04/15/2011

11,264

35

489

Sorry,Marina, that was a general statement. It wasn't all directed towards you. I was just going off of what you'd said. :)

[deleted account]

See I don't have that fear I will advocate for myself if I think I am not being treated correctly regardless of qualifications - I was a newly pregnant mum seeing these doctors too but when she was wrong I told her, it seems daft to me not to if I can see the treatment is wrong, why would I allow it to continue? Now not knowing that the treatment was wrong until after is different and you have the right to be pissed off with the doctor whom you trusted to do what was right for you. This is part of the reason I feel that women should not just go into pregnancy blind and should at least find out the basic knowledge they need to know (there were girls in the hospital with me who didn't know they had to take off their undies for an internal exam - I find that very scary).

The specialists we see are no more specialist than the doctors you see - they are OBGYNs just the same as your OBGYNs (it's just we say consultant as they are more specialist than our regular GPs). I think the difference is maybe the doctors we are seeing are generally trying to take the cheapest route (as funding is limited on the NHS) - which usually is a vaginal birth (if possible) whereas yours don't care how expensive it is because they have payment for treatments - IDK just a thought?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

I wasn't Dana, I think there are some incredible Doctors, I have run into some not so good OBGYN's, knowing better the second time around for me was the key. Being educated, especially on birthing positions, and that on your back is not ideal for the mother.....but is the easiest position for nurses and doctors. I had Separated Symphisis Pubis, and if I gave birth on my back...I may have caused irreversible damage. This is just one example.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

Yes, but Toni, when you are a new pregnant mother, it is sometimes difficult to be your own advocate. I mean the doctors are the one that went to medical school, questioning their authority can be troublesome, and scary.

See, you are in a different situation. If you are told you are high risk, you see a doctor. We automatically see a doctor. You would figure that since you need a "specialist" they should know exactly what to do.

Dana - posted on 04/15/2011

11,264

35

489

As we've seen though, Marina, is that you can't trust every doctor, every nurse OR every midwife. The bottom line is, there are some shitty ones in every profession and there are some ones that just make mistakes. That doesn't mean they all need to be painted with that brush.

[deleted account]

That is what I am saying though if you don't trust a doctor to not advise what is in the best interests of you as their patient then you shouldn't be allowing them to treat you. I lean towards the thought that most doctors do advise the treatment they feel is in the best interests of the patient though, even the rubbish ones like the doctor I refused to see - she thought she was doing what was best for me, until I pointed out her mistakes and then she realised that what she was suggesting was wrong and had to reconsider my options (which is when I lost all trust in her and her decisions).

For us in the UK we only see a doctor if we are high risk (as I have been in both my pregnancies) so for the vast majority of women they only ever see a midwife (or team of midwives), who do seem to be able to give more time for women to build up a trust with. It is quite rare here for a doctor to deliver your baby (unless there are complications during labour - or a section is needed).

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

Toni, unfortunately doctors are indeed going to recommend what they want to do, and not always what is best for the patient. Not to say all doctors are like this, but I have met a few shady ones, and some very terrific ones. I feel that the nurses are more there to protect your better interest. IMO. But you are absolutely right, you need to build a trusting relationshipt with your doctor. I didn't with mine, and I ended up with a section.

[deleted account]

No Amy I'm not saying that if a woman requires a c-section or intervention it is her fault (hell I had to be induced at 37 weeks myself), what I was trying to say is that when something goes really wrong most people look for someone or something else to blame rather than it was just pure bad luck, and we blame ourselves when things go wrong but we don't want to blame ourselves so we look for another fault something that would show that we couldn't have done anything differently ourselves - so we look to the next thing to blame which unfortunatly is usually the doctors.

As for not being treated by doctors or midwives, everybody has the right to refuse treatment from a particular individual, in the 3 weeks I was in hospital I was treated by around 20 midwives, they were brill except for one - the care she gave me was substandard (and I put a complaint in to the ward sister regarding it), you can bet your ass if she had walked into my room to deliver my son I would have told her to get out and would have refused her treatment as I didn't trust her competency, I would have insisted on another midwife. Likewise when seeing the consultant there was one doctor who I didn't feel comfortable with as she made several very obvious mistakes regarding my care and treatment, I refused to see this doctor and had it put in my notes that I wouldn't see this doctor. It may be different in other countries but I cannot see why anyone should have to be treated by someone they feel is unfit to be treating them!

Dana - posted on 04/15/2011

11,264

35

489

That's interesting, Sarah. I think with stories like that though, they're just someone's story, it's not always correct or actually how it's viewed medically. Like saying, "I just wasn't progressing". There's a lot of leeway there. I mean you could not be progressing and the baby is starting to be in distress or there are other complications. I really doubt there are that many cases where a doctor just says, "okay, you're tired, this is moving along slow, let's just go for the C-section."

I think it's just another case of, "I need to blame someone". It goes along with the stigma of C-sections being wrong or less of a birth....so, lets blame it on this!

Sarah - posted on 04/15/2011

5,465

31

331

I don't think complications are ever someone's fault. (well, I guess occasionally a doctor/nurse/midwife might do something seriously wrong, but I expect that's very rare)

I think doctors are in a bit of a catch 22 position really. Quite a few C-sections stories I've read while trawling the internet have gone along the lines of "I was in pain, not progressing and they suggested a c/s and I was too tired/in pain to say no". They the go on to say that they now bitterly regret that choice. (just want to add that I also found LOADS of positive c/s stories too!)

So should the doctors have NOT offered or suggested a c/s? At what point should a doctor offer a c/s? Whose to decide when the woman or baby is in enough trouble/pain to be offered one? If the woman accepts the offer, then is it really the doctors fault if she regrets it afterward?

I think it's a really tough call sometimes.

Amy - posted on 04/15/2011

4,793

17

369

here it isn't like you go to one doctor and that one delivers your baby. there are 20some in the group and whoever is on call is the one catching your lil one. It's not like you go to one doctor and just call her up when you go into labor and she shows up ready to assist you. So, though I may trust MY doctor, I have no idea who will be there when I get there. The doctor is - to me - just there in case something goes wrong.



as for blaming self...i already blame myself for being uneducated which resulted in a c section i often regret and think about what I could have done differently. and hopefully you're not saying it's a woman's FAULT if something goes wrong in her birth. sometimes things just happen that are out of our control.

[deleted account]

You have got to place trust in the doctors and midwives, if you don't trust what the professional is advising you then they shouldn't be delivering your child. I trust my doctors but I have no problems questioning them as to why they think we should do something one way instead of another if I feel they are not making the right decision, just as if I don't understand something I will ask for a different explanation. I do think that often doctors are blamed for a lot more than they should be because when something goes wrong we need someone to blame other than ourselves.

Sarah - posted on 04/15/2011

5,465

31

331

It seems like doctors are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they don't intervene quickly enough, then they're told they should have intervened sooner, and if they do intervene quickly, they're accused of not letting the woman have the birth she wanted, or not letting nature take it's course.

I think I'm bloody glad I'm not a doctor! (or midwife)

No wonder they sometimes don't know what to do for the best.

Toni - posted on 04/15/2011

139

50

12

Believe me if you've ever had a rupture you do NOT want to ever experience that again. I was one of the lucky ones in the few percentage that had her uterus saved. If it happens during delivery usually either the baby or the mother will NOT survive. And usually the mother will have to have a hysterectomy.
So yes I was very lucky because I got to have 2 more babies after mine but even if had been able to have more they would still be c-sections due to the high risk factor involved with a rupture.

Amy - posted on 04/15/2011

4,793

17

369

I read that ten percent of ruptures have nothing to do with c sections and happen normally. so, if it can happen with a first time mom......I guess that's where I got it. and I chose the possibility of rupture over being split open again.

Although some doctors are c section happy, I could see why they are because of how women have come to view pregnancy and childbirth. Who wants pain? none of us, but you kinda sign up for it when you get pregnant. It won't be pain free and things will happen you don't expect. I probably could have sued my doctor for inducing me according to ultrasound dates instead of calculated dates - which made daughter early...blah blah...but, it happened. We're all fine, she was probably just doing what she thought was best with the info she had. Not happy about how things went down, but what you gonna do?? Not worth the stress to me. I just hope that docs are putting people first before money.

Tah - posted on 04/15/2011

7,412

22

357

I think it has lots to do with people having these thoughts of a perfect birth plan and baby. When that doesn't happen then of corse who do you blame, well the doctor of course, because he shoulda,woulda,coulda done a million things differently. I'm not saying they are perfect, but they are blamed on a larger scale then they should be. In return you have insurance companies that just don't want the risk.

Mary - posted on 04/15/2011

3,348

31

119

Actually, I think the risk is lower than that. Both repeat sections and VBACs have risks, and in my opinion, they are fairly comparable. The group most at risk is the woman who attempts a VBAC, fails, and then requires a a section after laboring.

If it were me or my friend trying to make the decision about whether or not to attempt a VBAC, the most influential factor would be why that prior delivery was a section. If it was because of malpresentation or fetal distress (Sara H is a great example), I'd definitely be in favor of it. If it was because of a "fit" issue, such as someone who pushed for 3 hours without descent, I'd chose a repeat section.

Esther - posted on 04/15/2011

3,513

32

144

I completely agree with Mary. I think the US has just become a very litigious society and it's just something that is always on the forefront of people's minds as a possibility whereas in Holland (a country I can speak for) it's just not really considered unless there has been a very obvious case of malpractice (and even then people sometimes let it slide, like my mother did when her operation for cervical cancer was botched). However, I think one of the reasons it became a litigious society is that oftentimes, a settlement is all people have to fall back on. Health insurance is unbelievably expensive and even with insurance people are often confronted with huge bills for medical procedures. Unemployment & disability payments aren't anything to write home about either in the US. Therefore if you lose the ability to hold a job because of a medical procedure gone bad, or you are looking at a lifetime of expensive medications or follow-up care, a lawsuit may be your best bet to maintaining some quality of life for yourself. In Holland, your quality of life is pretty much guaranteed no matter what happens (I'm not talking pain/discomfort, I'm talking purely in the financial sense) so I think there is also less of a need to consider litigation.

But now I've really gone off topic.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

Mary, you can correct me if I am wrong, but also I think the chance of uterine rupture is between 2-4% and some hospital insurance companies find that % just to high to risk. I also found out it is a lot of politics involved.

i have more info, but i cannot type more now. baby is not giving me a minute.

Mary - posted on 04/15/2011

3,348

31

119

Sarah - I don't think that the number of lawsuits are any type of reflection on the safety of VBAC's. I think that Americans came to have unrealistic expectations of perfection in their babies - and even the slightest developmental delay will prompt some parents to look for someone to blame, even if their child's imperfection is not severe, and is just a result of nature. Sadly, when these cases go to trial, there is an almost automatic and instinctual tendency for jurors to be sympathetic to parents, and vilify those "mean, rich, uncaring doctors". (hell, I see it on here on a daily basis!). Even if a physician did absolutely everything right, most juries will still find in favor of the family filing suit, no matter how unfounded the claims are. Having testified in more than one deposition, I can attest to the fact that the question that always gets asked is "Shouldn't they (the provider) performed a section sooner?". It wouldn't matter if God or MOther Nature herself came in and said that the doc did nothing wrong, and the child's issues were genetic - most juries would still say that the doctor and/or hospital should give these poor people money to help with their hardships.

[deleted account]

If forcing a woman to have a VBAC and they would prefer to go with a c-section again, more chance to complain if any small thing goes wrong.

Different set up. In the US if someone gets sued it's the individual or the hospital that will bear the brunt of a lawsuit. They aren't paying for the procedure and watching costs in the same way as the UK. The insurance companies pay that.

Possibly cheaper for the NHS to cover the costs of an occasional lawsuit than financially fund the extra 10% of repeat c-sections.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

Sarah, there are certain complications that are involved, such as uterine rupture being the biggest scare. So, in the state that I am in, there must be an anesthesiologist, and a neo natal doctor on staff 24 hours per day in order to ensure the safety of the mothers and children during vbacs. If a uterine rupture goes unnoticed, the mother can die, and can put the babies life at risk also.

We are a sue happy country indeed, any problems that may arise, and it could easily be a malpractice suite.

Sarah - posted on 04/15/2011

5,465

31

331

I wonder why there were so many malpractice suits though?
If there were loads of lawsuits, then wouldn't that suggests that lots of things were going wrong during a VBAC?

A VBAC seems to be a very safe way to give birth (from what I've read) so where did the malpractice suits come from?

If that makes sense!

Mary - posted on 04/15/2011

3,348

31

119

Insurance companies do have some influence on VBACs; there was a time, during the 90's, when almost everyone was just about forced to attempt a VBAC (whether they wanted to or not) because insurance companies placed financial incentives via reimbursement rates. The VBAC rate peaked around 1996, and then, in response to soaring malpractice suits, it began to decline. ACOG, as well as individual hospitals, began to come up with all kinds of restrictions on who was a reasonable candidate, as well as some ridiculously impractical demands on the physician caring for the patient.

I honestly think that the biggest deterrent in providers encouraging and/or supporting VBACs in the US is our lawsuit-happy society.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

It really depends on the individual hospitals. I am in Massachusetts, the 3 major hospitals right by me no longer perform them

Sarah - posted on 04/15/2011

5,465

31

331

So in America, do you think it's the fact that it's all done through insurance companies that there's a lower rate of VBAC's?

Dana - posted on 04/15/2011

11,264

35

489

Marina Gallegos -

"Emma, some states will no longer perform VBACS."

Do you have a list of which states those are, Marina? I could only find Florida.

[deleted account]

That's what I saying in regards to the NHS. If you want a VBAC then you would still have to go to hospital just in case of an emergency but unless there are complications they will allow you to attempt a VBAC. It's cheaper and in some ways safer than skipping straight to the c-section and totally normal.

Sarah - posted on 04/15/2011

5,465

31

331

My local hospital couldn't do a C-section, so they would send you to the other hospital for a VBAC also. They can't do anything at my local hospital except give pethadine (sp?) and gas and air. If you need forceps or epidural or the baby's heart rate drops, you go straight to the other hospital in an ambulance (like I did.....that was the best bit! lol)

I was really pressured into giving birth at my local hospital, they were convinced I'd have a straight forward birth and wouldn't need any interventions or anything.
Even after my traumatic time with my eldest, they tried to convince me to go there again for my youngest, to which they got a resounding "NO WAY!!"

You're right though, I guess here in the UK, if a woman turned up at a hospital and wanted a VBAC, I don't suppose there would be anything stopping her, unless it's a hospital with no interventions like my local one.

Amy - posted on 04/15/2011

4,793

17

369

It does. I looked for a midwife too and only ones are almost two hours away - and always full. But...If anyones really really want a vbac, not sure what's stopping you from going to a hospital and just giving birth. My hospital I had my daughter and emergency c section at....obviously did the E c section or i wouldn't have my daughter. So, not sure exactly what it is unless it's controlled by insurance companies or something. any know?? i mean, with statistics of c sections after inductions....all hospitals do c sections,, why not vbacs?

Sarah - posted on 04/15/2011

5,465

31

331

My local hospital can literally only deal with completely straight forward births, if anything at all goes wrong (like with my first) you get take to another hospital 30 miles away.

Not sure if they would do a VBAC there, I highly doubt it!

I guess if you can't travel to a hospital that can accomodate one, then it's going to make it really hard for people to get the VBAC.

Amy - posted on 04/15/2011

4,793

17

369

Yes, marina. some hospitals just won't do them. which I think is a shame, but i understand if they are smaller and don't have staff onhand in case of emergency c sections. That's why I have to travel so far for my VBAC!! Nothing like being in labor in a car for an hour. :( But..was worth it for me to do one, also - or at least to try again this time.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

If I had needed another c section instead of my VBAC, I would have been fine with it. I just wanted the opportunity to try.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/15/2011

18,908

9

3002

Emma, some states will no longer perform VBACS. There is a risk of uterine rupture, but there are more risks with a c section. I went to several doctors, and asked and called many labor and delivery units before finding my midwifes. The specific place I chose has the highest success rate of VBAC's in the area, and just about 2 years ago, most hospitals out here banned them. I did a lot of research, with my midwifes, and was willing to and wanted to desperately try a VBAC. My chances were about 80% success rate. I had a successful and very fulfilling VBAC in the long run.

Sarah - posted on 04/15/2011

5,465

31

331

I think that doctors ARE only human and do make mistakes, however, I also feel like it's usually best to take into account what they're saying to you, as they are highly qualified at what they do.

Also, I'd add that mistakes can be made just as easily when having a vaginal birth. With mine, the first hospital I was at firstly didn't pick up on the fact that baby was back to back, a trainee midwife said she thought baby was, but the senior midwife dismissed the idea. They also told me start pushing when I was only 5cm dilated!! They also only decided to transfer me to another hospital after my Mum begged them to as she was seriously worried about me.

Mistakes happen in all walks of life, it's unfortunate, and obviously everyone strives to not have them repeated, but everything and everyone is fallible.
I don't think that it should be either ignore doctors completely or take their word as gospel truth.......it should be somewhere in the middle.

If you see this, leave this form field blank.
Powered by RESPECT not THUMPS

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms