Colorado massacre...tougher gun laws?

Kristi - posted on 07/21/2012 ( 287 moms have responded )

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In light of the tragic shootings at a movie theater in Aurora, CO, do you think our (USA) guns laws should be more strict? Why or why not?



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/U...



What do you think when someone says, "People don't kill people, guns kill people?"



Who would benefit from stricter gun laws, criminals or law abiding citizens?



I do not think we need stricter gun laws. The people like the man in this story and other criminals will always find a way to get what they want. Maybe what we need are harsher puniments for those who have illegal weapons, are involved with the sale of illegal weapons and in crimes committed with firearms. (legal or illegal)



Thoughts?



eta...I know this particular guy did not have illegal firearms, I'm referring to people like him.

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Mary - posted on 07/31/2012

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"If a criminal knows there's a possibility that someone is carrying a gun they are less likely to get robbed, held up, car jacked or their home broken in to. Most home robberies here in America happen when the owner isn't home. Why? because the owner can't shoot them if they aren't there to defend their property."

Bahahaha...this made me laugh. On July 23rd, my local paper ran this story about a home invasion, including these details:

"The suspects broke into the home around 3:30 a.m. Sunday, tied up the man, ransacked the house and stole one handgun, five shotguns, three rifles and two computers. The ordeal last until almost 5 a.m."

http://owingsmills.patch.com/articles/re...

Somehow, this guy who was home, and owned several guns still ended up the victim of a home invasion, and hospitalized with a head injury. I guess that pretty much shoots your theory to hell right there.

Mary - posted on 07/21/2012

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Jodi, as an American, I completely agree with your most recent post, particularly this:

"Ultimately, the safety of the community must take precedence over any one individual right."

I'll be honest - on a personal level, I'm firmly anti-gun. I have never held a gun in my hand, and I see no reason why I ever will. I will never allow a gun in my home. I just see no reason for them.

My husband has a different mentality on this, having grown up in an area and in a family that was heavily into hunting. My FIL still eagerly anticipates the start of deer hunting season. Happily for me, we live 6 hours away from them. I believe that the last time my husband used a gun for hunting purposes was sometime before 1995, when he last lived in this area. I won't lie and say that I'm comfortable with this, but I at least respect their right to engage in this "sport", and I can accept gun ownership by those who use them for a purpose such as this.

That being said, I can find no justification or reason why any normal, law abiding citizen, has need of something such as a semi-automatic assault rifle. I'm sorry, but weapons such as these should flat-out be illegal. The only individuals who should have access to weapons such as these are those in the military - and those individuals have no reason to have them in their homes.

I'm all about stricter gun control, and the outright banning of a number of the types of guns that the average citizen may either own or have access to.

Jodi - posted on 07/21/2012

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I personally question the individual right to bear arms. The constitution was originally developed with the intention that, as an independent nation, your nation had the right to bear arms. It was written in the language of the time, which was different to the modern language. It has since then been only through the legal interpretation of the courts that it has come to the current understanding that it is your rights as an individual. It was not the original intention of the wording of the constitution. But legal precedent will always reign, and in this modern day, it is legal precedent that has prevailed.



Gun *control* does not necessarily interfere with this supposed right to bear arms, depending on how it is structured. It will, however, dictate which arms you may bear, when you may bear them, and when you may use them, etc. Gun control is about putting controls in place to ensure the safety of the community. Ultimately, the safety of the community must take precedence over any one individual right.

Jodi - posted on 07/21/2012

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OK, firstly, this man did NOT have illegal weapons. In the last 60 days, he PURCHASED these weapons legally from 3 different gun shops, together with 6,000 (yes, SIX THOUSAND) rounds of ammunition. One of these guns was a semi automatic ASSAULT rifle. How was this allowed to happen? He should never have been able to purchase this many of these weapons, and THAT much ammunition in the first place. I mean, come on, what else are you planning if not some sort of massacre if you make those sort of purchases? Who uses that much ammunition?



So yes, I believe you should have some level of gun control. Not all guns are equal. Not everyone needs a gun. You tell me why a medical school intern living in inner city Denver needs an assault weapon, plus three other guns and that much ammunition. He doesn't, it's that simple. So why shouldn't he have been regulated on his purchases and be required to purchase a legitimate licence stating a valid reason for necessity of the weapons? Why shouldn't there be limits to ammunition purchases?



Valid research (and I don't have time to dig it up right now) has shown that harsher penalties do not work. Banning guns will not work. But gun control, with certain well thought out, logical and structured measures, can be very effective.

Krista - posted on 07/22/2012

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I agree with everything that Mary said. I have no issue with people who want to own guns for hunting, as long as they are responsible about them. Most people in Canada who own guns do so for hunting or for protecting their livestock, and as a general rule, we are VERY responsible and cautious about our guns. Another difference is that for the most part, we do not purchase guns with the intent of possibly having to use them on another human being.



The guns are part of the problem, but the mentality is the bigger problem. I have been in a few online arguments with people who are convinced that if only there were MORE guns, this wouldn't have happened -- that if some of the people in that theatre had been armed, they would have been able to "take out" the shooter.



I pointed out that despite those John McClane fantasies, it's highly unlikely that a bunch of civilians in a dark theatre, terrified and blinded by tear gas, would have accomplished anything other than turning the entire theatre into a blind firefight, resulting in even MORE casualties.



But it was like talking to a wall.



There are so many people in the U.S. who are seriously paranoid. They talk about how the 2nd amendment gives them the right to protect themselves against the tyranny of the government (ignoring the fact that the Founding Fathers were talking about people forming themselves into militias, not talking about everybody walking around armed with the type of weaponry that wasn't even dreamed about in the 1700's.)



Basically, you guys have talked yourselves into a domestic arms race. A bunch of people have guns, and that creates an atmosphere of fear, so then other people get guns, because they don't want to be the only ones who are defenseless. And round and round we go.



How to solve the problem? I honestly have no clue. Like I said, it's a societal attitude, which means that it's going to be very difficult to overcome.



Personally, I think that the NRA needs to smarten the fuck up and start speaking up against assault weaponry, and stop promoting the fetishization of guns. Guns are a useful tool. That it is. They're not cool, they're not sexy, and they don't make a person cooler or a badass. And if the NRA and other gun sports organizations started delivering that message, perhaps we MIGHT start seeing a bit of a change of attitude.



But as long as guns are treated like they're awesome and cool and badass, things will only get worse for you guys.

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Tina - posted on 09/04/2012

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You don't hear of any massacres in Australia. Sure you still have shooting but not massacres.



The majority of firearm related deaths in Australia have been from suicide.involving hunting rifles. This has decreased dramatically in the last 10 years with other methods of suicide prevention. That includes mental health awareness there are a lot of free mental health facilities and counsellors. People obviously can find other measures of committing violence. But massacres are rare. The last massacre I heard of with a deadly weapon involved a knife and that was less than a handful of people. Now if this person had access to a semi automatic imagine how many more people would have died.



A lot of the guns stolen in Australia have been from security places. Knives are used more often in robberies and other crimes than guns. Although still bad there's not much you can do about that there are knives in every home more than likely.



You cannot buy guns on the internet in Australia and even if you had purchased one Good luck getting it in the Country. People have attempted many times to smuggle weapons and other illegal items into Australia only for them to be confiscated



Violence prevention takes a lot. Gun control is one method. As many have stated over and over it's not about taking guns away from everyone it's preventing certain types of guns reaching the hands of regular citizens and preventing a person accessing more ammunition than is necessary.



If you feel you need a gun for self defence. Yeah that's your right. But you don't need hundred even thousands of rounds to protect yourself from an intruder. You don't need a semi automatic assault rifle.



Even for hunting there should be a limit of how much one person can buy. If someone is purchasing for someone else there should be some sort of register that participating members must sign. Anything so that one person isn't going to cause serious harm to many people as James Holmes did.



As far as Australian statistics go we still have lower violence rates than many other Countries.

Jodi - posted on 09/03/2012

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Bahaha, don't respond to you? Honestly, this is a DEBATE FORUM sweetheart. If I want to respond, I can. If I want to say bullshit, I can. If I want to disagree with you, I can. Do you want some cheese with that whine?



In the US you can purchase online because it's legal. What part of that are you not getting?

Amy - posted on 09/03/2012

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Jodi, do not respond to me ever again on any post. There is absolutely no reason for yelling or cursing. Just because someone has the nerve to stand up to you. You have been very disrespectful toward me in that aspect when I have shown nothing but respect. Obviously we will not get along. You want everyone to see your point of view and that is it. You do not know me nor my intelligence. Don't you dare talk down to me or judge me.



In the US you would be surprised what you can purchase online. Gun control isn't the issue. Internet access and what you can do online is. Recently a man purchased a television online. He was sent a military grade automatic weapon. Again, gun control is not the issue.

Claire - posted on 09/03/2012

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Once again that was me, and you obviously didnt read the whole thread because I was being chastised AND I apologized to the ladies I was having the argument with for what I said.



You are copying my post Amy. Sorry you're getting my backlash Jodi.

Sally - posted on 09/03/2012

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Then try searching out:

"Dunblane gun law has been a failure, says marksman" Daily Telegraph (London) 28 December 2001

"London Gun Crime Up 90%" Sky News 19 December 2001

BBC News, "A country in the crosshairs" 4 January 2002

"Britain is now the crime capitol of the West" Independent Digital (UK) 14 July 2002

"Official: more muggings in England than US" Sunday Times (London) 11 October 1998

"Mobile Phone Shootings Shock Britain" Associated Press, 9 January 2002

Australia Bureau of Statistics

Jodi - posted on 09/03/2012

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No, that wasn't me. I am not American.



And no, I can't purchase guns or ammunition on ebay. It would never get into the country, and it is illegal for it to be sold on ebay in Australia, it would be removed.....



I ALSO realise that psycho is not an official psychological term, but it IS a term used in popular culture to refer to one who is insane, so it isn't necessarily an incorrect term for someone to use. Who cares if it is an assumption anyway? It is your assumption that he is not. Is your assumption better than anyone else's for some reason?



I didn't call you a liar. I called bullshit. That's different. Prove me wrong. Prove to me that in a country where there is gun control you can purchase guns and/or ammunition online, as much as you like. You clearly don't understand gun control AT all. My "yelling" is frustration at the ignorance about gun control. I am seeing it a lot on this thread from people who have never lived in a country where gun control has been implemented. Total ignorance.

Amy - posted on 09/03/2012

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"My point was that because some psycho who obviously could've used some mental help shot up a movie theater doesn't mean the rest of the responsible public should have our constitutional right (yes, I am American) taken away." (This was in one of your previous posts, that's why a stated your name. If it was not you that said it, then I apologize.)



And there is absolutely no reason for your attitude in response to others. No one has yelled at you so there is no reason for you to yell at them. Now, are you aware of you can purchase on eBay? You would be surprised. The issue with online purchasing is the internet is a worldwide place so one country cannot regulate it.



The term "psycho" is no longer considered a clinical term in the psychology field. Because there are so many different mental illnesses out there. It is an umbrella term for anyone and everyone who has a psychotic mental illness. And at what point has this man been diagnosed as insane? Or psychotic? He hasn't. It is strictly an assumption.



Talking down to people, calling them liars (even if not in those exact words), and basically invalidating their thoughts an opinions is not contributing to a conversation. Going forward, I am asking that you respect me when I speak please.

Jodi - posted on 09/03/2012

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Um, none of those links are giving me anything.........



Except the ABS site, but I'm assuming you have something more specific than just going to the ABS. You'd have to have a link to the actual studies or statistics they collected on gun related crime. That's a huge site. I'd like to know which specific statistics you are referring to. I just spent some time on that site trying to find what you stated, but couldn't, so given you are the one who made the claims, I am assuming you can point me in the right direction to be able to back it up.

Claire - posted on 09/03/2012

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Pretty sure I am the one who called him a psycho. And I wasnt trying to be clinically correct. I was making a general statement with that word

Jodi - posted on 09/03/2012

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Sally, that's statistically incorrect too. Please show me where you got those numbers, because believe me, gun violence in Australia has actually reduced. I would just be interested in where your numbers come from. If you are going to claim them as facts, please cite your sources Thanks.

Sally - posted on 09/03/2012

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In the first 4 years after Australia banned most guns and made defensive use of a gun illegal, armed robbery rose by 51%, unarmed robbery by 37%, assault by 24%, kidnappings by 43 % and manslaughter by 16%. Murder fell by 3% though so it must be worth it.

In the first 4 years after England banned all handguns, gun crimes have risen by 40% and the UK leads the US by almost 2 to 1 in violent crime. Murder and rape rates are still slightly higher in the US though so it must be worth it. Except those rates are going down in the US as more states enact shall issue concealed carry laws so it won't be helpful for long.

Saying "guns cause crime" doesn't change the FACTS that the opposite is true.

Tina - posted on 09/02/2012

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Couldn't agree with you more Jodi. I know parcels that come into Australia are scanned anything suspicious is investigated further. Gun laws aren't just about banning people from owning guns as some are suggesting it's about having rules about what gun types, how much ammunition can be purchased. Being licenced etc.

Jodi - posted on 09/02/2012

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LOL, Amy, I'm interested in where I called him a psycho. Not sure why you put my name there because that's not the reference I used. I just went through all my posts, and nowhere did I call him a psycho :\



However, psycho, in popular culture, is a term to call someone who is insane (as referenced in the standard dictionary), and yes, in this instance, he is indeed insane. Psychotic people can plan stuff too, you know. I learned this in my Abnormal Psych class as part of my psych degree, and have also studied plenty of examples of this. After all, was Jim Jones sane? Charles Manson? Of course not. But it doesn't preclude the fact that they absolutely should be held accountable for their actions and doesn't preclude them from being classified as "psycho". To suggest that someone who is insane can't plan something like this for months is highly ignorant.



"No matter how strict the gun laws are these incidents will continue to happen. For a random person to be able to buy guns, ammunition, and all the other stuff this guy had online, it is too easy."



Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Stricter gun laws would MEAN it wouldn't BE available online. What part of that don't you get? We have gun regulations in this country, and WE CANNOT PURCHASE THIS SHIT ONLINE!!! CUSTOMS HAVE THE ABILITY TO PREVENT IT FROM COMING INTO THE COUNTRY!!! Believe it or not, every parcel that comes into this country is scanned. You do realise, right, that when stricter gun laws come into place, they are smart enough to ensure measures are in place to enforce them in the best way possible, and this DOES include online purchases.

Amy - posted on 09/02/2012

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Jodi--As a mental health professional myself, calling this man psycho is not appropriate. It took months of planning and a lot of money to pull this off. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that what he did was wrong. A person who is psycho cannot be as detailed as he was. Do I think he needs mental help? Absolutely. But I also feel he should face the death penalty...and Colorado does support the death penalty. But to call him psycho is not accurate.



Whether or not the guns he had are legal is irrelevant. What is relevant is how easy it was for him to purchase the guns. There is absolutely no reason for anyone who is not in the military to even have access to assault rifles.

Amy - posted on 09/02/2012

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I don't exactly keep up on world news such as that but thank you, Sally! But that goes to show that the more restrictions there, the higher crime rates are. While I believe that every individual has a right to their own thoughts, opinions, religion, etc., I do believe that many things should be universal. Ignorance is a big issue, not just in the U.S. but worldwide. Unfortunately, you cannot force other people or cultures to be open-minded.

Sally - posted on 09/02/2012

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Amy--That would be Switzerland. They recently started putting restrictions on who could carry guns and when and where and their crime levels have been going up. Israel which requires every adult citizen to keep a gun has even lower levels than Switzerland. Studies done in the US have shown that every time a state changes their concealed carry laws to "shall issue" all forms of violent crime not only go down in that state, but go up in the surrounding counties of states without those laws. That's why my children will learn to handle guns properly instead of being told "they're scary" and kept away.

Amy - posted on 09/02/2012

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It's not a matter of stricter gun laws. No matter how strict the gun laws are these incidents will continue to happen. For a random person to be able to buy guns, ammunition, and all the other stuff this guy had online, it is too easy. To start with, none of that should be available online AT ALL. I did a quick google search and found various websites that sold these items. That is a huge problem. Stricter punishment(not just for this crime but any crime) is a good start as well. Hold the websites accountable. They supplied the items. If you go to a gun shop, you have to pass background/criminal checks. That cannot be enforced online. There is the possibility they are going to use an insanity defense in this case, which will give him a lesser sentence. He took at least 4 months to plan it. He knew right from wrong. He is old enough to know better. There is no insanity. He is highly intelligent. There is no reason he should not punished to the fullest extent of the law. Very few criminals deserve an insanity defense. Most who succeed in using it just don't want to face the consequences after they got caught. Until the justice system changes, this will continue to happen.



There is a country in Europe (I forget which right now so if anyone remembers, please remind me!) that does not have strict gun laws. What they do instead is properly train every person in gun use. Everyone once they pass the training is registered to carry a gun...this does not mean that every person owns one. But they do have the lowest crime rate, the lowest murder rate, and the lowest gun crime rate IN THE WORLD. Gives you something to think about, don't you think?

Claire - posted on 08/15/2012

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Yes, I do believe in gun control. I didnt say I dont believe in gun control, I said it changed my opinion on mental health more than gun control. Just not restricting them completely. But as all of you have pointed out, my comment was vague, so really didnt show my real feelings.

And I definitely DO NOT believe any childrens schools should be allowed guns. (No one was accusing me of this, just responding to a post) That ridiculous and scary. If parents want to teach their kids how to handle guns that is fine, but I would hope they have a mind to lock it up so the kid cant get to it when they are not around and use it wrongly.

And I also agree with Bekey, there is no reason for semi automatic assault weapons that only have THAT purpose. I dont want to go to war, or I would have joined the military.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/15/2012

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OH and a very important FYI. When you change a post, put that in there that is has been changed....like

Edited to add or even just ETA for content or however you want to word it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/15/2012

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Hold on a minute here Claire. People were not jumping down your throat, they were reacting to your comment about owning a gun being a goal of yours one day. People here will call you out on comments like that and ask WHY! Clarity is the key in a debate.

Jodi - posted on 08/15/2012

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"And I didn't say ALL gangs have illegal guns. But if They steal them, they are no longer legal now are they?"

And if they weren't so easy to steal, it wouldn't be a problem, now, would it?

Jodi - posted on 08/15/2012

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"My point was that because some psycho who obviously could've used some mental help shot up a movie theater doesn't mean the rest of the responsible public should have our constitutional right (yes, I am American) taken away."



You obviously haven't read the thread because no-one has suggested you can't have guns. They have suggested there need to be more checks and controls in place.



"I do not think someone should be able to own that many guns, especially something like an assault rifle. There should be increased regulation, just not where it restricts everyone from owning a gun."



See, look, you DO believe in gun control.

Jodi - posted on 08/15/2012

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"You guys are crazy. My goal in life is not to own a gun! Hahaha. I find it funny that that is what all of you took out of this."

Well, isn't that fantastic then, because I was saying it with tongue-in-cheek as a smart arse remark. See that :P at the end? That's me poking fun. So good to see we are all on the same page....lighten up people!

Becky - posted on 08/15/2012

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"Children who've been taught to use guns responsibly don't shoot their friends. "

Okay, but maybe they shoot their enemies. Or the teachers who give them a failing grade. Or the coach who they feel is too hard on them, or the school bus driver they don't like... Just because they have been taught to use a gun responsibly does not mean that they are always going to be sane and rational! They're kids! They act on impulse without considering the long-term consequences. I can guarantee you, if guns are ever allowed in my child's school, outside of a hunting education course where they are carefully supervised (and not used on the actual school grounds!!), that will no longer be my children's school!

No one is trying to take anyone's freedom, or guns, for that matter, away. What we are arguing is that stricter gun control laws do not, in fact, restrict your freedom. They do not restrict your ability to protect yourself, anymore than not allowing you to have a cannon aimed at your front door or mounted to the roof of your truck restricts your ability to protect yourself! Not allowing civilians to own semi-automatic assualt weapons does not mean they cannot have a handgun in their home for protection. (I think feeling you need this is ridiculous, but whatever, that's my opinion.) It doesn't mean you can't have a .22 and a 12 guage to go hunting with. It means that you cannot have a weapon whose only purpose is to kill large numbers of people in a short amount of time. And it baffles me as to why a person who does not want to kill large numbers of people in a short amount of time wants a weapon that would allow them to do so. Making people get licenses and permits and pass a psychological evaluation before purchasing a gun does not restrict their freedom to own one, unless they can't pass the psychological evaluation, in which case, ummm, isn't their freedom being restricted a good thing for society? (Although, I would venture a guess that most sociopaths actually could pass a psychological evaluation because they are master manipulators, so I'm not sure this would be entirely effective.)

And good grief, to the person who wrote that you fought wars to get away from having to follow what other countries do...SMH I would say I can't believe the arrogance, but sadly, I can. America is not the be all and end all. Not everything you do is the way it should be done. It is actually possible that you could learn a thing or two from looking at the way other countries do things.

Claire - posted on 08/14/2012

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Megan, The whole thing also could've been avoided if everyone didn't jump to conclusions, but I will keep that in mind for myself... And just to say, my state requires background check, a test and a permit to own a handgun

And I didn't say ALL gangs have illegal guns. But if They steal them, they are no longer legal now are they?

And I really dont see America's conservative party changing gun laws. Look at Texas, one of the MOST conservative states here, and they are allowed to carry concealed weapons without a permit, and most of them would never let that go.
Mexico brings in a lot of illegal everything around here too, not just guns...

Canada seems like a great place to live... But I dont. I live in the US.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/14/2012

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Claire, you never specified why you wanted to own a gun. The whole thing could have been avoided if you'd included a why. I do agree that one comment was over the top. But still elaborate next time.

As for illegal guns Only the really big gangs (ie: Bloods, Hells Angels, ect) would be able to afford to traffic illegal fire arms so that whole 'illegal guns are in all gangs' doesn't fly. Gang members can also steal a legal gun. In Canada the only illegal guns we get are brought in from the US (thanks home country *eye roll*) these range from hand guns (which are hard to obtain in Canada) and automatic assault rifles which are illegal here period. Heck our boarder guards only recently started carrying weapons.

Gun violence has decreased in Canada since 1991 when stricter gun laws were introduced by our Conservative party.

Claire - posted on 08/14/2012

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The reason I said crazy is because everyone was jumping down my throat because they misunderstood what i was saying. I dont really think any of these women are crazy, I just didnt expect such an uproar. "Oh wow, what a goal to have in life :P" It is not my lifes goal. That was my point. And I agree with what most of you are saying. And to each their own, in my opinion. People were attacking me of my "goal" so I felt the need to defend myself. Although I will agree using the word "crazy" should have been avoided. So I apologize for that.

And unfortunately, there are a ton of unregistered illegal guns killing a lot of people on the streets. I know that I would be a responsible gun owner, same doesn't go for the gang member down the street, who's gun probably IS illegal anyway.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/14/2012

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Kristi I didn't mean everyone everyone. Sorry.

Ok nevermind what I said earlier. Claire calling someone crazy because they either don't understand why someone wants a gun or finds it odd that a goal in life to own a gun just shows that you are uninformed about other's ideas and opinions on fire arms. And you did state that you hope to own a gun which indicates that it is a goal you have in life. Funny how that works. It's just a shame you couldn't be respectful to other's opinions.

I'm American too, I don't see the honor and glory in being able to defend my right to own a gun when my country is too focused on telling its citizens that the care you would need if yourself or a family member was injured because of our 'inalienable right to bare arms' is a privelege. FFS how are guns a right and health care is a privelege? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I grew up around hunting rifles, I believe those are the only necessary gun you should be allowed access to and anything else should include extensive background checks and have an almost raffle to see who deserves to get a hand gun. In Canada you need special permits in order to be given the right to own a handgun because they're concealed. I believe we should follow suite in the US. The city I live in now has only had 1 shooting since I moved here last year and it was gang related. I believe stricter gun laws play a large part.

Sally no one is talking about being afraid of guns or taking away someone's rights to own them. Myself and most of the other women here are either from states or countries where gun control is tougher than in most of the US (New York is only 1 of 5 states to ban automatic assault weapons and we're one of only 13 states to have limits on ammo) Most of us are educated enough to understand that there would be less gun related violence if there were tougher laws enforced. Compair the UK, Canada and the US. The US has the most guns, the most lax laws and the most shootings out of those 3 countries.

Honestly all I'm seeing now is the pro gun people being afraid of us moderate people. Are you that attached to your fire arms?

Claire - posted on 08/14/2012

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Thank you Sally. At this point, no, I dont know what I want. That is why I want to go to a shooting range to see what I feel more comfortable with. And accuracy will definitely play a part in my decision. I plan on trying out quite a few different guns before making my decision. I dont think there is anything wrong with me wanting to know how to shoot a gun! And own one!

Sally - posted on 08/14/2012

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Having the means to defend you life and liberty (and the lives and liberty of those around you) is a much nobler goal, than wishing to take away others rights because you are afraid of an inanimate object.
You go girl. Do you know what kind you want yet? I love my 32-20 revolver, but it's ammo is expensive and I'm more accurate with a 38, so I want one of those some day too.

Claire - posted on 08/14/2012

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I do not think someone should be able to own that many guns, especially something like an assault rifle. There should be increased regulation, just not where it restricts everyone from owning a gun. Certain guns should be illegal, as many are, but that would def have to be one of them. I didnt read this whole thread, cause there is 13 pages of it, just an FYI. \

And the parents knew this guy was troubled. It baffles me why they didnt try to get him help before it was too late

Claire - posted on 08/14/2012

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Also, where I live is not that dangerous. So I dont really have the need for protection like that. I just feel like I would like to know how to use them safely and learn how to shoot. Mind you, I have never shot a gun yet. I plan on going to a shooting range to learn how and to handle them safely. And in the event something happened, I would know how to use it. Though, I'm really not banking on having that happen in my life cause I dont put myself in those kind of situations.

Claire - posted on 08/14/2012

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You guys are crazy. My goal in life is not to own a gun! Hahaha. I find it funny that that is what all of you took out of this. I am in no rush or I would have one already. I actually copied my post out of another gun discussion, but should have taken the gun part out of this one, cause this was about the colorado shootings, not owning a gun. But anyways!
And really, I want to do target shooting and learn more. I want to know how to shoot one if anything did happen. Yes it will be locked up cause that is the responsible thing to do with small children in the house, but that doesnt stop my response to getting it if I needed it. My point was that because some psycho who obviously could've used some mental help shot up a movie theater doesn't mean the rest of the responsible public should have our constitutional right (yes, I am American) taken away.

Kristi - posted on 08/14/2012

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My intent was not to rag on her. I did make the assumption she wanted it for protection because she referenced the massacre and no need for gun control. So that is why I asked what good will it do her if it is locked up. I just wonder about that in general.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/14/2012

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I am curious about that. But it seems like everyone is just getting on her for wanting a gun not for why she wants a gun. If I had stated that I want a gun because my family goes on hunting trips and I wanted to participate, would you all have jumped on my case for it?

JOhnny makes a better point because Claire doesn't state why she wants one. She's not acting as though the woman is off kilter just for wanting a gun.

Johnny - posted on 08/14/2012

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I think what perplexes me is that she simply states that her goal is having a gun. She never mentions why. She doesn't add that she plans to take up hunting or target shooting or collecting antique or specialty firearms or becoming a highly trained law enforcement officer or military member. Just that she wants guns. Is it just for the sake of having guns? I don't get it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/14/2012

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Yes I get that Megan, and nope haven't checked where she is from. i am not that invested. The point is, if she is so desperate to own one, where there is a will there is a way. I was asking why she had not accomplished her dream of owning a gun yet.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/14/2012

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Ladies, the woman wants to own a gun, not induldge in a shooting spree. I have a friend whose goal is to get her concealed carry permit. Yes I find it odd, but I don't rag on her for it.

Marina, the fact that it costs money to buy a gun, get the background check and wait for the check might have something to do with her not owning a gun now. Did you check where she lives? If she's in Canada like I am, there are also other factors that will keep a person from legally owning a gun for a while.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/14/2012

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If you want to own a gun so badly, why don't you have one NOW?

Jodi - posted on 08/14/2012

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"I want to own guns. And one day I will."

Oh wow, what a goal to have in life :P

Kristi - posted on 08/13/2012

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Claire--

What good is your gun going to do you in an emergency if it is locked away somewhere in a safe?

Claire - posted on 08/13/2012

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I want to own guns. And one day I will. But I will also own a gun safe that my children will NOT have access to. I think the colorado shootings has changed my feelings about mental health in this country, not gun control. Too bad all the state mental facilities were shut down years and years ago, cause kinda seems like we might need them. And I also believe the parents should have been more aware of their sons issues and got him help, not just let him do his thing or whatever

Karla - posted on 08/10/2012

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Honestly, dependency on guns is not something that gets talked about often and it wasn't until I was in college that I realized the emotional and dependent attachment that some people have to guns.

In one college class, we were studying educational psychology and part of that was understanding differences in people including personality and priorities. Our group of about 6 or 7 people imagined being stranded together and needing to venture out and seek help. We had a list of items in our inventory and we could only take 10 items with us. One young lady in the group listed gun, and the rest of use said we didn't need a gun. She was very adamant about needing a gun, and even got emotional about it. She told us her mother always had a gun in her glove box and she had taught her and her sisters to do the same. I was flabbergasted, but it did expose me to that way of thinking and its foundations.

I on the other hand, was raised by relatively pacifist parents. My dad served in the army, but he never had it in his heart to hunt, and in the army he was a map maker. He was and is an assertive person, but not aggressive.

I just thought I'd share that as a view of the variety in the US.

Jodi - posted on 08/10/2012

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Scary, isn't it, that there are actually people who think like that ..... I am glad I live on the other side of the pacific and in the other hemisphere in that respect :D

Kristi - posted on 08/09/2012

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Karla, Megan, and Johnny...thank you for returning my blood pressure back to normal. You all said what needed to be said. Now I can continue on my merry way, day dreaming about rainbows and unicorns...pretending there are not more people with the ridiculous (that is not even a strong enough adjective for this) mindset that Shoot-em-up Sally has!

Tina - posted on 08/09/2012

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I know in Australia most of the guns that have been confiscated were never registered in Australia. People do try to smuggle guns into Australia illegally but it's not easy. Many get caught trying. Same with drugs. Anything dangerous being posted has to be declared. Items coming into Australia are x rayed and suspicious packages are investigated further. The majority of shootings have been suicides from guns obtained legally for hunting. Most robberies and violent crimes involve knifes. We still have homocides. People still die. But since restrictions have been put in place there hasn't any violent massacres involving guns. It's common sense to have some sort of rules and regulations. It wont stop gun violence altogether. There will still be crimes but you might not have crimes like this massacre.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/09/2012

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Yes, if I shoot back I MIGHT die; if I don't shoot back I WILL die. I'll take my chances protecting myself and those around me.
Until fairly recently, guns were allowed at schools. In fact some schools had shooting clubs. Children who've been taught to use guns responsibly don't shoot their friends.


God I hope you don't come up here to Canada and someone asks you a random question. You might get scared because you don't have your gun and complain about our gun laws!

True story- a cop from Michigan came up to Alberta to watch the Calgary Stampede ;ast month and was approached by a guy in a local park who asked him and his wife if he'd seen the stampede yet. The cop felt threatened becuase he didn't have his gun! Now sorry, but I'm American and I nearly died laughing at that. First off, you're a cop shouldn't you know some damn self defense to protect yourself? Second you're a cop, shouldn't you be able to assess if someone is a threat or not?

Also since when until when were guns allowed in US schools? I went to school in New York and have friends who go to or send their children to school in Texas, Georgia, Louisiana, Arizona and so on. I have never heard of children being allowed to bring guns to school or shooting clubs. My parents attended schools in NY in the 50's and 60's and we didn't allow guns in school back then.

I'd also like to know who can't legally defend themselves in the US. I was a care aide and I took self defense. I was also taught to fight by my brother. I can LEGALLY defend myself with the equal force that is used on me. I don't know where anyone is pulling that from. Even as a care aide if someone who I am taking care of starts hitting me I am allowed to block the blows.

Now I do advocate proper gun education and if you are going to have children in a home with firearms you should teach your kids to respect guns. But I don't believe that they should be handed guns or allowed to handle them without adult supervision. I grew up wth guns in my childhood home because my dad hunts. My dad would constantly tell my brother and I to always treat a gun as if it's loaded. And I have yet to be able to picture my dad saying things about stock piling ammo and that kids should bring guns to school.

Karla - posted on 08/09/2012

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Sally “I don't have to worry about my neighbor stockpiling weapons to use on me because unless he takes me with his first shot, I'll be taking him down.. If I don't get him, one of our other neighbors or one of my other family members will. That's why successful gun massacres only happen in gun free zones.”



Is that the “I know you are, but what am I” defense… or is it the “Anything you can do, I can do better,” defense? Perhaps both.



Sally “A lot of people who cannot legally defend themselves. A few unsuccessful massacres have been attempted in other places. Those rarely make the news because a bystander with a legally used gun stops it before the police arrive and unfortunately, that's just not as interesting to the media.”



I would like factual references to this statement. I personally think it’s a fabrication fed to gun owners by the NRA or gun manufacturers.



I don’t think you read any of the articles that I shared, and of all those participating in this debate I believe you are one that would benefit the most from the factual analyses of guns in the US presented in those articles. In the meantime you offer opinion with no factual foundation.





Annabelle: ”And if more people concealed and carried someone could've taken him out or at least slowed him down in some way. The question of "what if" could take us in may different directions.”



Don’t forget the direction where the shooter has tear gas and a gas mask and body armor… don’t forget that another shooter (even in defense) could and probably would have missed their mark and created more victims. Yup, many different directions indeed.



Stopping Holmes needed to be done BEFORE he bought that ticket – through better regulations of guns, ammo and armor sales, and by more diligent and proactive awareness of mental health issues.





Sally “Until fairly recently, guns were allowed at schools. In fact some schools had shooting clubs. Children who've been taught to use guns responsibly don't shoot their friends.”



Now you’re advocating that young immature people should be able to have guns?



The thing about children with responsibilities and knowledge, is they tend to be unpredictable with these concepts. That’s been proven with tests on kids’ behavior near strangers, (and guns for that matter.)



Much of what you claim is based on twisted information. There is no way any reputable child psychologist would advocate guns for kids primarily because of children’s’ undeveloped sense of both morality & mortality. I believe your advocating guns for children shows you are indoctrinated into the NRA’s ideal gun owner mentality. You are "IN," and that’s not a good thing this time.



In the meantime, it's doubtful that your opinion has convinced anyone of it’s merit, but you have managed to encourage those living outside the USA to be much more thankful for their civilization, laws and government.

Johnny - posted on 08/09/2012

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Guns have never been allowed IN schools here. My grandfather went to a one room rural school house miles from home carting his younger siblings along. He carried a rifle for protection (from wildlife) on their journey. They had a gun lock up in the cellar. The school is a museum now, and the gun locker is still there bolted to the floor boards.

I'm going to be blunt, to me, any suggestion of young people having guns in school is entirely lacking in the most basic common sense and is entirely wrapped up in a warrior ideology that places every one of our kids in serious danger. It sends shivers down my spine. If one kid loses their temper or is less than cautious or decides to show off, the consequences could be deadly. And kids are well known for not being the greatest at carefully thinking things through, no matter how well-disciplined and well-trained.

I honestly have to wonder if you are actually joking. Gawd.

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