Culture Crisis vs Health Care Crisis

Chatty - posted on 09/19/2010

Of course...I just booked a dentist appointment as a matter of fact. The only reason I don't have one yet is because Chad just started a new job a month and a half ago and his medical/dental coverage isn't effective 'til after 3 months.

Dana - posted on 09/19/2010

Why damn it, yes I am! :P I would much rather have a mouth full of shiny gold then pearly whites.

Sara - posted on 09/19/2010

Well, you're jealous of my gold-toothed glory, aren't you Dana?

Chatty - posted on 09/19/2010

But Sara, did you choose to have a gold tooth and has anyone ever been jealous of you? lmao. I don't relate gold teeth to being rich.

Cathy - posted on 09/19/2010

There needs to be some sort of grass roots / basic health care system in the US, that will cover the most basic elements of health care but that needs to cover everyone.



After that you should be able to by insurance to cover other aspects of healthcare. Add premiums on to people whose action are detrimental to their health, smoking, drinking.



If you get some idiot who destroyed their liver with booze but didn't bother to declare their drinking habit in their insurance then the new liver goes to next person on the transplant list. Actually I want that implemented on the NHS...

Dana - posted on 09/19/2010

Freak.

Sara - posted on 09/19/2010

Uh, I have 8 gold teeth.

Dana - posted on 09/19/2010

I DON"T get that either, Dana!! It just looks as if you have bad teeth!

Chatty - posted on 09/19/2010

I'm still trying to understand why anyone would want a gold tooth or why it is considered a "luxury"? EEK!

ME - posted on 09/19/2010

...mostly shame...

Krista - posted on 09/19/2010

Evidently, when on WIC, you're only supposed to live off of potatoes and cabbage. And shame.

ME - posted on 09/19/2010

(Maybe an) Interesting anecdote: If I go to the store and buy things with my WIC coupons, and then also purchase organic fruit and veggies and meats, I get dirty looks, sneers, huffs and puffs from those in line and those checking my groceries...if I use WIC money and then also buy potato chips, soda, bacon, ice cream or anything that could possibly be considered unhealthy (but is also less expensive), I get dirty looks, sneers and huffs and puffs from those checking my groceries and those in line around me...and HEAVEN FORBID I want to make something that calls for alcohol in the recipe and try to buy that while using WIC coupons...I've learned that it's better to make two trips to the store because no matter what I purchase in addition to WIC, I get glared at, or straight up get reprimanded...the judgmental attitude of Americans is really beyond the pale...All of us need to keep in mind that old saying..."there but for the grace of god go I"...

Jenni - posted on 09/19/2010

put free $$$ in front of anyone and there will be those who take advantage to get their hands on it... blue and white collar... poor and rich alike... the difference is white collar "crimes" involve more $$$ than poor crimes and therefore effect us far more.... wherever there is a system there will people who take advantage of it.... the rest of the world has UHC for a reason... because it works and because we don't think it's right to just let the underpriveledge suffer/die simply because they don't have the means to afford proper health care.

The thing is if you are poor your lifestyle is going to be poor... the poor across the world suffer more in health issues than the middle class/rich.... they don't have the luxory of healthy foods or better health care services. Just look at the life-span of rich to poor countries for an example of that.... there's a lot more to it than lifestyle choices like deciding to smoke cigarettes... and the tax dollars on cigarettes goes right back to the government, but that's besides the point) see there's a way of resolving that issue! tax the shit out of cigarettes... That's more money going back to the government and less of the people on medicaid will beable to afford them..that should solve a lot of problems right there... That's what Canada does!

Mary, don't take this the wrong way but don't you think people in the health care profession become a little jaded? You see so much of the darker side in your profession and you only get a quick glimpse of people so you only see the surface of their life. I mean I could be sitting next to a billionaire who's dressed like a total bum and I would never guess he was a billionaire. In the same way you could see a woman in designer clothes, smoking cigarettes with a gold tooth and a medicaid card and never understand how she is *actually* living. You don't know her whole life story from meeting her one time for 5 mins. You don't know that she bought her gold tooth when she did have a job, bought her designer clothes for a walmart price out of the trunk of someone's car, and smokes cigarettes because it's her only escape from a mundane, entertainmentless, futureless existance.

Alison - posted on 09/18/2010

I believe in everyone having acess to health care regardless of their lifestyle, but the letter adresses some of my concerns too. I used to live in a country with free healthcare and the system is collapsing because so many people are getting sick as a result of poor lifestyle choices. There needs to be some kind of system that encourages people to take care of themselves to avoid needing so much medical care in the first place. I'm not sure how such a system should be implemented though. It seems like medical treatment is buying a small amount of time for people who are obese as an example, but their life will still be shortened in the long term. Surely a better system could encourage a good lifestyle that would be better for the patient in the long term rather than just treating the symptoms in the short term.

ME - posted on 09/18/2010

Mary N, I have never found you to lack compassion before, and I'm sorry if I've offended you. It was not my intent. You mentioned that many of your doctor/nurse friends feel the same way as this doctor, or had reposted his email. I was already aware of this due to the type of care I've received, the "looks" I get, the nasty comments that are made to me, and the ridiculous "advice" I am given by care workers who seem to think that EVERY medicaid patient fits the description of/assumptions about the woman in this email. I know that the majority of Americans look down on me and my family for our current poverty, and I know that they blame us for it despite all the evidence to the contrary; so, I don't need a repetitive daily reminder of it on FB and CoM from people who I thought were my friends and family (who are also posting and reposting this email). As I've said before, it's disheartening and depressing. I think it is unfair; I think it is an oversimplification of a very difficult social issue; and, I think that at it's core is classism, racism, sexism, etc. Clearly we see this issue differently, and it certainly could be my proximity to the issue that is making me feel the way I do, just as it is your proximity that is making you feel the way you do...our experiences are simply on opposite ends of the spectrum. I am the one who has nasty assumptions made about them on a regular basis, and you are the one who has to deal with the individuals who (I guess) fit this stereotype. That doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact, a stereotype, and a hurtful, harmful one at that.

I am a college teacher at a small community college. Many of my students are quite poor, and most lack the education or ability to get into a good four year college. Some have learning disabilities that make it difficult for them to do their work, and I have to make special concessions for them. Some are in school on grants which are set aside for minority students, etc. I cannot imagine how harmful it would be to my students if I decided that I knew enough about their backgrounds to determine that they didn't "deserve" the "special" treatment they were receiving. It certainly isn't my job or responsibility to make that determination. It is my job to treat all of my students equally, and where needed, to provide the extra help that some need to achieve their goals. People certainly have a right to their opinion in their private lives, but I believe that I would have a much more difficult time doing my job if I harbored resentment or anger towards the students who are getting a free ride or who need extra help to get through my class...and in my line of work, my students lives aren't in my hands...

Dana - posted on 09/18/2010

Mary N, I have to agree with you that people who abuse, the system do hurt everyone, especially those who honestly need the help. Case in point.

Jennifer - posted on 09/18/2010

I'm just grateful that here in the UK we have the NHS so everyone is entitled to free healthcare! =]

Cyndel - posted on 09/18/2010

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mary - posted on 09/18/2010

Mary Elizabeth, it is not that all health care providers have lost our sense of compassion or empathy. Nurses, in particular, may make a decent salary, but we are in no way wealthy. It is because I still value helping others (regardless of their financial situation) that I stay up all night 2 or 3 nights a week, running my ass off for 12 hours, often without a meal or bathroom break. If treating the sick (or laboring) patient was not my main focus, I would have long ago taken a higher paying job with an insurance or pharmaceutical company, where I could acutally sleep in my bed every night, never spend Christmas apart from my child, or risk my own personal well being by driving through 2 feet of snow just to get to work. I'm not claiming to be a completely altruistic martyr, but don't you dare insinuate that I lack compassion or empathy.



Doctors and nurses have a professional and ethical responsibility to provide the best care possible to the patients we treat. I have no qualms about the level of care I give to ALL patients that I see, and do not differentiate based on socioecomic status or means of payment. Truthfully, what really matters most to me is whether or not a patient is nice; I'm a little less tolerant of some of the more nasty, obnoxious types, and I will never tolerate physical or verbal abuse from a patient or family member (which has occurred too many times to count in my 20 years of nursing).

I, and almost everyone I work with, do the very best we can for every patient we see. I purposefully chose to work in a Catholic hospital BECAUSE of it's mission statement: Loving Service and Compassionate Care.



However, I am not just a nurse. I am a human being, citizen, and tax payer. When I am not at work, I have just as much right to an opinion on social issues as the rest of you. "Personal judgements" are something we ALL make in both our professional and every day lives...it's not a part of our job description, but it is a part of being human. As Carol pointed out, there does exist a "subculture" of citizens who believe that it is perfectly acceptable to squander any and all assistance they receive, and engage in habits and behaviors that increase their risks of requiring costly interventions down the line. They value only themselves, and their own wants...the rest of us be damned. Sorry if you think that makes me heartless to find that behavior both unacceptable, and damaging to society overall.

ME - posted on 09/18/2010

Perhaps if you had to go to the doc and present a medicaid card, or the grocery store with wic coupons right now "you" would all understand that the majority of the country is blaming people for being poor right now... ALL of us...without knowing or caring what our particular situations are. It gets old, it gets humiliating, and it's getting ridiculous! It makes me sad that doctors and nurses across this country are ignoring the issues of poverty, racism, sexism, undereducation, food deserts, etc, etc, etc...because as educated people, they should know that social problems are NOT one demensional. Personal judgements ought not be part of their job description imo, treating the sick should be their focus. I know that it is tempting to blame the poorest, weakest, most uneducated among us for all of our financial problems, because they cannot fight back, but it is not their fault alone! The for-profit health care system in this country is shameful, and i will not fall into BIG PHARMA'S trap and blame those who are it's biggest victims!

Mary - posted on 09/18/2010

Holy crap, right it down on your calendars...Christina and I may actually agree on something!!!! =)



Part of the reason I posted this is that so many of my friends on FB, nurse and doctors alike, who are all fairly liberal democrats, have posted this on their walls as well. (For the record, I did NOT). Most of us are fully in favor of healthcare reform, and universal coverage...but are beyond disgusted and disheartened with seeing so many patients similar to the one described in this letter.



**edited to add**

I also am a little baffled at those of you who were so passionately offended by this based on the fact that you currently in need of some type of governmental assistance. To me, this is NOT a "blanket condemnation" (M.-E.'s phrase) of all poor or struggling citizens. It IS a condemnation of those (numerous) individuals who abuse the support systems society tries to provide for them. It hurts ALL of society as a whole when this occurs, and limits the resources available to ALL in their time of need.

C. - posted on 09/17/2010

"oh, it appears we have a differing opinion of the origin of this piece...I feel that it is a republican propaganda email that is INTENDED to be passed around and passed around in order to make people hate socialized medicine"

Laura, if that were the case.. Why would one of my most Democratic friends, who is a med student, put this up on her profile?? Obviously it's NOT a Republican thing..

Kelly - posted on 09/17/2010

Kati, I didn't see where anyone said you weren't entitled to small luxuries either. In fact, in one of my own posts, I went out of my way to say that you WERE entitled to indulge in a manicure, albeit a $20 mani, not a $65 one. And I certainly don't care what kinds of food you buy, but I do feel like foods and drinks linked to medical problems should be taxed at a higher rate. The one thing that you said that I really do dis agree with though is the statement about the police and fire services:

"i pay for the firemen, the policemen, and all sorts of shit that i havn't had to use yet, and may never use, and i don't bitch about that." --Kati
The difference is that those services are available to EVERYONE. Whereas tax funded medical care is not. If my house caught on fire, the fire dept would come put out the fire for free, just like if the home of a Medicaid recipient did. However, If I get sick and need to go to the hospital, taxpayers will not pay my bill, but if the Medicaid recipient gets sick and goes to the hospital, taxpayers will pay the bill. If taxpayers are going to pay for some, they should pay for ALL.


Jennifer, to address you question about our healthcare plan, no, not everyone is entitled to even basic care. A Doctor cannot refuse to treat a patient who is in critical condition, but they can file with collection agencies to take that person's home to pay for the treatment afterwards. I think that when the democratic party was talking about "healthcare reform" and "universal healthcare" back during campaigns and even during the debates, a lot of us were under the impression that we would be getting something like Canada's plan. Unfortunately, what ultimately passed is a far, far cry from anything even remotely similar to Canada's (or any other countries' ) Universal Healthcare plans. That is why you see a lot of people who are FOR Universal Healthcare, but oppose the healthcare bill that recently passed.

Jenni - posted on 09/17/2010

Carol, I'm not saying all people who require assistance are lazy. I am not speaking as though i'm some middle class career woman who doesn't know a thing about poverty and what it's like in a housing project.... there is a subculture to it... i've been on welfare before, i've lived in the shady side of town...... you just visit....

For the record... i am for universal health care in case that wasn't made clear by my posts. But i live in Canada where we already have universal health care... so really it's a non-issue to me....

I'd be ignorant to say ALL poor people are lazy and just not willing to work... i believe in that post i was referring to people who DO abuse the system because of the fear other people in this thread have had over people that abuse the system. I was specifically referring to those people and yes, poverty is the cause of a lot of their issues. Being poor is kind of a drag... eating mac and cheese every day is kind of a drag... so these people try to find other ways to escape (ie: drugs/alcohol/cigarettes/designer clothes). and yes i'm still talking about people who DO abuse the system. Not people who have fallen on hard times and need help.

As far as the system, I have little faith that it helps get people off welfare because of my own experience... when i see my uncle who *can* work but refuses to look for work and received welfare for years.

Me on the other hand, used welfare because i fell on hard times... looked for work... found a part-time job (not near enough to pay rent) applied for OSAP to go back to school... welfare was subsidizing my income... OSAP didn't even give me enough to pay tuition and books. When i did qualify for OSAP welfare dropped me. i tried to talk to my case worker about it she was cold and just said that i was entitled to more from OSAP and they would pay my living costs. Spoke with OSAP who insisted i didn't qualify for any more funds. welfare said they couldn't help me anymore. I couldn't afford to live on my own, had to move back in with my mom (who lived out of town). No way to get to work or school so i had to quit my job, quit school, default on my OSAP and end up back on welfare..... i don't see how that's helping people who want to actually get off welfare and stay off it.

Dana - posted on 09/17/2010

Maybe I missed it but, I haven't seen one person say that someone on Medicaid can't have a steak for dinner. I also don't think that a retired man who has gobs of money gets all of his bills paid by medicare, nor is social security anything to write home about. Medicare is still based on what your income is (bank account, investments, etc).
I think it's unfair to say that anyone who has spoken up to the fact that a majority of people do abuse the system are prejudiced against poor people.

Rosie - posted on 09/17/2010

i havn't quite read up since i last posted, so forgive me if i say something that has already been said. :)



i have 2 points to bring up, and then i think i may be done with this, because these threads always get to me :) whether or not you like people spending money on themselves while on title 19, or not making payments back to the government, the fact remains that this is LEGAL in our country. as long as you fit the requirements for income they give you title 19. they don't say, well you can't have kids, and you can't buy a steak every now and then, nor may you have any more kids. they set the income requirement, and you are not supposed to pay back any money, so why would anybody?? and if you really think about it, i AM paying it back by WORKING. so the problem is, that you don't think it's fair that you don't get to use it cause your income doesn't meet the requirements. well, i pay for the firemen, the policemen, and all sorts of shit that i havn't had to use yet, and may never use, and i don't bitch about that. i don't get pissed that someone whose house set on fire gets to use the fire station, and they had a steak instead of hamburger the night before. i just don't get it.



i would also like to make some of you think that you may be just a little prejudiced against poorer people, and not really realize it. think about an old man, who is retired living off of medicare, and social security. so the government pays for ALL of his expenses. he goes out traveling to europe, hawaii, figi, living it up, and spending gobs of money that he has in his 401k, but he still has his medical bills paid by the government. do you have a problem with that? and if not, can i ask why you what the difference is?



the ONLY problem i have with people who are on medicaid, is if they LIED on their application about their income. that is the real problem here. i know too many people who have money comoing in from either drugs or other sources, or lie about where their kids live. not the people who QUALIFY for help.

Isobel - posted on 09/17/2010

hear hear!

Johnny - posted on 09/17/2010

The subculture isn't poverty. That is insulting to the millions of poor people and those becoming poor struggling and working hard (whether employed or not) to do the best for their families and provide for their needs. The welfare system and medical system should be available to give them as much help as they need, and to ensure that they have enough food on the table, clothes in their closets, health care, books, etc. that children need to grow up healthy & happy. But we can not deny that there are a portion of people, which may be large or small, that do not bother to do the right thing, regardless of their economic standing.

People living in poverty are not by that fact "noble" as some activists would like us to believe. Nor are people living in poverty "lazy folks who just sit on their bums with their hands out" as those of the opposite political viewpoint suggest. There are people with unbelievable wealth who spend it irresponsibly and then put their hands out to the state for help when things go wrong (see US Bank Bailout 2008/9). Some people, regardless of economic status, are just selfish, self absorbed, ignorant people who put their immature wants and desires ahead of the basic needs of themselves, their families and their societies.

Dana - posted on 09/17/2010

Mary N, I kind of skimmed through a lot of this because I'm so late to the debate. Do you think that our health care crisis will "disappear" if the "culture crisis" is resolved, as this "Dr." states?

Dana - posted on 09/17/2010

Oh, let me state, that I don't think this "letter" is real for one second. It's a generalized letter.

Though I do get Mary N's point too. It is frustrating because where I live, you see this EVERYDAY. I live in the largest, yet poorest county in Ohio. It is FULL of welfare/medicaid recipients who abuse the system.

Jenni - posted on 09/17/2010

Kelly, I'm not sure what the states plan is for their healthcare system. But that's not how it works here AT ALL. (Canada). Everyone qualifies for basic health care. This does not usually include dental or vision. Some workplaces provide extra health care insurance for things not covered by basic insurance such as dental, vision, private rooms, etc. These can also be provided by private insurers. But EVERYONE receives basic care for free regardless of how much money you make. NO ONE has to pay out of pocket. Private insurers and jobs who provide insurance pay for the "extras".

Jenni - posted on 09/17/2010

Want to add one more thing... my uncle... who has lived with my family for about 10 years... was a wellfare receipiant... i would say he was an abuser of the system because he *could* have gotten a job but chose not to... He fell ill with lung cancer and because we have free health care for welfare receipiants in Canada there was zero medical debt for his treatments.... if there was my family would have been paying the bills. I know he is our family and family does have a responsibility to take care of their own but i couldn't imagine my mother losing her house because she had to pay his medical bills. Was it her choice he leeched off the system? Why should she have to pay with everything she had and in the end be left with losing her brother and her house? If we all pay a little extra taxes we prevent these situations that affect EVERYONE.
How would you feel if you had a loved one without medical coverage and you had to be the one to take on the medical bills? What if you were in a situation where you had a family to support and your grandmother who didn't have medicaid fell ill. Would you beable to say: sorry Grams but i can't afford to pay for proper health care for you because my family will suffer too much.

Kelly - posted on 09/17/2010

I have no problem with women who fit said description receiving healthcare paid for by tax payers. What I have a problem with is that not everyone is entitled to the same healthcare paid for by tax payers. If I were allowed to walk into the ER with a headache, be treated, and never be billed, I would have no problem at all with her doing so. But she is allowed to do that, and I am not allowed. When I leave the ER, I am saddled with a huge bill, usually $3k-7k in my area. Why is it so high? Because not only am I expected to pay for my own care, I have to cover a portion of hers as well that is not covered by Medicaid, which is entirely funded by my taxes.

I do not think Medicaid should be funded by income and capital gains taxes, because many of the people abusing that system do not pay those taxes. It should be paid for with sales taxes, because they are certainly paying those.



So how to change it? Open Medicaid to anyone who is a US citizen or legal immigrant., fund it with sales taxes, alcohol taxes, tobacco taxes, and a new tax on foods with high amounts of trans fats. That would be a start.



In summary, I don't think the Doctor, whether he is real or not, is saying that those people are not entitled to healthcare, but if they are entitled to FREE healthcare, ALL people should be entitled to the same care and the same price.

Isobel - posted on 09/17/2010

aha...I thought the language sounded like those asshole emails I get...here is the real version:



During my last shift in the ER, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient with a shiny new gold tooth, multiple elaborate tatoos and a new cellular telephone equipped with her favorite R&B tune for a ring tone.



Glancing over the chart, one could not help noticing her payer status: Medicaid.



She smokes a costly pack of cigarettes every day and, somehow, still has money to buy beer.



And our president expects me to pay for this woman’s health care?



Our nation’s health care crisis is not a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. It is a crisis of culture – a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on vices while refusing to take care of one’s self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance.



Life is really not that hard. Most of us reap what we sow.



Starner Jones, MD

Jackson



Now he just sounds like my mom

Jenni - posted on 09/17/2010

and the subculture is poverty... regardless of giving them a check they would be engaging in criminal activities... probably more so.... giving them a check or healthcare isn't going to stop them from engaging in criminal activities or neglecting their children... infact it would probably be much worse if they didn't receive the money... i don't believe that not giving people assistance is going to force them to go out and get jobs and become law-abiding citizens... they would continue to live the same life regardless... they would just find other ways.... darker ways... and their children would be the ones paying the price...

let's try this scenerio... say the woman described by Dr. Starner has 3 kids... she is neglectful to them, barely feeds them, and spends all her assistance on herself... She doesn't get mecaid in cash so if her children are to get sick there would be nothing stopping her from taking them to the doctors.... at least her children would get the medical care they need.... why should innocent children have to pay for their mother's actions?

There are always going to be people who abuse the system... even *IF* a vast majority do... there are still those out there who deserve proper health care and shouldn't have to pay with their health/lives for those who abuse the system.... this includes children/elderly who probably well out weight the number of abusers of the system....

I watched an episode of Extreme Makeover where the wife had cancer and was a school teacher... She was forced to return to work while she was undergoing chemo just to afford their medical bills... she said she would go for her chemo treatment early in the morning and then drive to the school where she worked... they were about to lose their house because of the debt accumulated by her medical bills... (not sure why she didn't have health care from her work but i'm not from the states so idk but she didn't)... why when, she could be staying home and spending time with her family (b/c who knows how long she has) and healing should she be forced to go back to work? I find that revolting that there are people out there who especially deserve health care (i say "especially* because i think everyone no matter what their situation deserves health care) have to pay for some idiots who abuse the system.

@Laura... i totally agree, this is some kind of insurance company propaganda.

Isobel - posted on 09/17/2010

sorry...I don't buy that this is real...I can't help but wonder exactly how much ROGER STARNER JONES, MD has invested in any particular insurance company...or if he's planning on running for office ;P

Johnny - posted on 09/17/2010

They lived in subsidized housing. They may be involved in criminal work or under the table work and not declaring the extra income. The subsidized housing minimum for those type of units was actually about $350 a month at the time. These were people with kids, who were being investigated for not feeding, clothing and caring for their kids. But they were receiving lots of extra cheques to encourage them to buy the appropriate food & clothes, which they turned around and used for tv's and other stupid crap. Like I said, it wasn't like it was all these parents, but there was a little subculture just like that.

Chatty - posted on 09/17/2010

I still think her boyfriend is a drug dealer. ;)

Jenni - posted on 09/17/2010

Just my opinion.... but.... i doubt a welfare receipient can afford to use his money to buy a big screen tv.... considering (and im not sure what they receive in the states) they receive let's say for arguement sake $550/month for an individual.... After you pay rent, let's say it's cheap $300... let's say you eat mac and cheese, hotdogs, cool aid everyday so you spend $100 on food.... that's leaves you with $150/month for everything else.... let's say it's cigarettes and clothes.... Now my point is these people *may* be using their money to buy cigarettes and designer clothes... it is also possible they wear the same designer clothes every day...but that's their priorities when spending their welfare check...they are also taking a severe cut in their accomadations and food so they can wear fancy clothes and smoke cigarettes or buy alcohol. Seeing them in a hospital setting where all you can see is what they're wearing but can't see where they are living or what they are eating (food one grade up from dogfood) how can you really assume you get the whole picture?

Back to the big screen tv.... pretty sure they didn't use $$$ to obtain that.... and the designer purse was probably bought out of the back of someone's car for a walmart price....just sayin.

Dana - posted on 09/17/2010

OMG, I just saw this and it's disgusting. While no one thinks it's right for someone to have the top of the line clothes, electronics or gold teeth, while on medicaid, this is not what is at the base of our health care crisis.

Johnny - posted on 09/17/2010

Personally, I think this sort of story indicates a perfect reason why universal healthcare coverage is the best way to go.

I worked for a couple years as a welfare advocate. My job was to help people who had been denied a service of some sort to get this service. Much of the time it was disability, either provincial or federal, but sometimes it was housing or basic welfare. I'd say that about 20% of the time, I was helping people who didn't deserve what they wanted, did not actually require the support, and had way nicer shoes, handbags, jeans & jewelery than myself. Yeah, it was annoying & frustrating. Especially since we never refused service as policy, and those bums were taking away the time that I should have been spending on some deserving person's case. So I do understand this doctor's frustration.

I do think that there is a subset of the western culture that thinks it is acceptable to do whatever it takes, except hard work and perseverance, to acquire the consumer goods and bling that they feel is necessary. I think some even see it as a "right". I can not tell you how many squalid social housing units I went to as a social worker where I saw a brand-new big screen tv. Often neglect cases. It is frustrating and irritating.

I do not think that dismantling our social safety net because of this small subset of selfish pigs is the answer. There are always and have always been people not willing to work hard who expect to have the best. You'll also often find them in jail, because they're often looking for the easy way to the top. It is a 'cultural crisis' but I'm not sure how forcing the general poor to pay for healthcare would get rid of this bad subset of the population. The answers are most likely elsewhere.

Mary - posted on 09/17/2010

Laura, forgive me if you mistakenly interpreted my most recent post as a response to you individually, or as a "barb" directed soley at you. For the purpose of clarification, if I am ever responding to an individual, I call them by name. That post was in response to the thread as a whole, and not to you (or any other participant) individually.

Mary Elizabeth, I think you are looking for implications where none have been made...he is making an observation about people who do not take good physical care of themselves, and place a priority on material posessions rather than meeting their basic needs first. You CHOSE to interpret it as a condemnation of the poor...but that is nothing more than an assumption on your part. He in no way faulted all medicaid recipients, just those who employ similar behaviors to the patient he is describing.

I will restate, when you actually work in a hospital, you become aware of just how common an occurence the scenario he described actually is. Working in healthcare for 20 years has robbed me of the romanticized fantasy that the majority of medical assistance patients are honest, hardworking people who have temporarily fallen on hard times. Yes, providers are required to treat patients equally regardless of their personal opinions of their character...but, we are just as human as the rest of you, and are entitled to express those opinions when NOT at work. We are no less susceptible to becoming annoyed or frustrated in our jobs, and the "customers" we encounter than any of you who work in non-health related arenas.

Sarah - posted on 09/17/2010

That's the thing isn't it, surely a persons personal circumstance and way of life shouldn't dictate whether they're "worthy" of receiving healthcare.?

Chatty - posted on 09/17/2010

That's awesome, Sara!

Sara - posted on 09/17/2010

One of my FB friends just posted this on their status:

Dr. Roger Starner Jones please just treat the patient and don't judge a person by material possessions. Health Care should be a right for all. 60 % of all bankruptcies are due to medical bills and I doubt all of those are from people with R&B ring tones.

ME - posted on 09/17/2010

"I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture" a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance."

...and, this statement from the OP sounds pretty much like a blanket condemnation of the poor...

Chatty - posted on 09/17/2010

I agree with that also.

""I feel that it is a republican propaganda email that is INTENDED to be passed around and passed around in order to make people hate socialized medicine"

I do also agree with Mary about certain aspects of her argument but ultimately I think Laura is right about why this email originated.

ME - posted on 09/17/2010

"I feel that it is a republican propaganda email that is INTENDED to be passed around and passed around in order to make people hate socialized medicine"

That's exactly what this is...and not only is it meant to make people hate socialized medicine, it is meant to make people blame the poor of this country for everyone's problems, and that is incredibly sad!

Krista - posted on 09/17/2010

I agree with Laura. Sure, there are people out there like this.

But there are also plenty of families on Medicaid who desperately need it and who are barely making ends meet. And there are people who are actually dying from lack of treatment, because they cannot afford it.

Why is Dr. Jones not writing about any of them?

Why is he not writing about the patient who didn't seek treatment for a mole, because she couldn't afford the co-pay, and now has stage four skin cancer?

Why is he not writing about the couple whose daughter was just diagnosed with leukemia, and they're uninsured because the dad just got laid off and the family's insurance was cancelled?

I just don't understand why a DOCTOR, someone with the ability to speak as a true voice of authority on the need for universal health care coverage, instead chooses to perpetuate 2010's version of Reagan's "welfare queen driving a Cadillac."

Isobel - posted on 09/17/2010

oh, it appears we have a differing opinion of the origin of this piece...I feel that it is a republican propaganda email that is INTENDED to be passed around and passed around in order to make people hate socialized medicine...you seem to feel it is genuine, so I guess that is at the very heart of our disagreement.

no he doesn't say that EVERYONE is like this person, but the insinuation is that socialized health care is bad because people like this get a free ride

well, it ignores the fact that a) tax payers will pay for this person regardless of what kind of insurance they have because tax payers foot the bill when people walk out on theirs and b) that EVERY social system in the world has people who abuse it.

Unfortunately we must accept the fact that we will end up paying for SOME loafers in order to make sure that those (ten times more people) who really need help can get it.

and I don't know where all your anger towards me is coming from but the fact that I disagree with you does not mean that I have "jumped on the bandwagon of self-righteous indignation" come on now...you can save those little barbs for the idiots who make NO sense, thank you.