Declawing a cat.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Actually Kate, the back nail does not stick out a little, it sticks out all the way. They do not retract the same as front claws. And, for your information, she had all 4 feet done. The cat was not aggressive, and never had a bitting issue. It happened, she got it declawed, end of story.

No, you were not simply repeating back what I said. You know that, and don't try to be coy. I do not my words being twisted to make a point. No one does.

Amie - posted on 08/27/2011

*** Mod Alert ***

We are locking this thread. It has nearly 500 posts, 24 pages and is just going round and round. It is going nowhere and people are bickering.

Amie
~DM mod

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

Well, speaking as a person with an immune disorder, I think that's flawed logic. If you're going to remove claws, you should remove teeth, too. And all sharp objects in your house.

I assume the cat's nails are long because in most cats, in order for there to be enough claw hanging out to snag the skin and cause an open wound of any kind they have to be KINDA LONG. If they were little nubs ground down to the quick I doubt it would have done any damage at all even if the cat MEANT to cause the woman harm. Plus, unless you removed the claws from all four feet I doubt that declawing the cat in the front would prevent this exact scenario from happening again. As you yourself pointed out, the back claws stick out a little all the time.

And lady, I was repeating back to you what you had said to me about this old woman who got scratched by a cat.

So...not entirely sure why you're all up in arms about this. I've already said that I agree with you that a cat is better off without it's claws in a loving home than with it's claws in a shelter or abandoned on the street. What I don't agree with, however, is that an immune disorder is justification for declawing a cat. It's not. If you (general you, here) want to delcaw your cat then do it. But if this woman had her cat declawed hoping to prevent further injury to herself from her cat then she should have thought it through a little bit better.

Jennifer - posted on 08/27/2011

"someday a cat will have lesser teeth too, but with a good owner it will still have it's claws :) "

Isis- I resent this remark! I am an EXCELLENT caretaker for our cat and the many others that I have rescued over the years.... some WITH claws and some had to have them removed. I resent that you would imply that a bad owner would have their cat declawed. I am NOT a bad owner and I have probably saved more cats in my life than you will ever even SEE! If you are a good cat owner, your cat WON'T likely loose their teeth because you will have taken care of them!

Minnie - posted on 08/27/2011

No, I just kept an eye on it- the swelling went down and the infection resolved in a day.

But you see that the cat caused an infection despite the lack of claws...so it makes me wonder if a person who is SO immunocompromised that the slightest scratch will severely injure this person (imaginary person, of course) will declawing really solve the problem?

I mean, I suppose I can support declawing for a medical issue, but it does make me wonder if a person like that should own an animal at all.

Declawing just for the sake of it drives me crazy though. Buying a kitten for one's four year old and having it declawed just because you don't want the tot to be scratched....yeah, don't own the cat at all.

Cat's scratch, cats bite... it's what they do. If you're not prepared for that, don't take in a creature that is a predator with a serious defense system. Perhaps declawing is supportable for a seriously sick person, but again, I'm not sure that person should be owning an animal like a cat- they're not going to have their teeth removed, are they?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

YES, people with diabetes get fragile skin. Many diseases cause fragile skin.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

First of all, stop acting like you know what you are saying about this situation. Why would you automatically assume the cats nails were long? Just to fit in your rant better? Yup. And pay attention. I never said people SHOULD get the cats declawed when they have some sort of immune disorder, I am saying it is an acceptable reason IMO! Don't you DARE start putting words into my mouth to fit what you want to hear.

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

Anywho, I'm off to bed. So debate amongst yourselves, ladies.

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

Okay, so one woman who had paper thin skin AND diabetes has a cat with abnormally long nails that naturally hang out of the paw pads regardless of how short they are trimmed gets her cat declawed because the cat accidentally scratched her and she nearly lost her finger. So this is your basis for why people with immune disorders should get their cats declawed? Seriously?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Older women with diabetes, what do you guess about her skin? And nope, cat was walking across her from what she told us.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Back toe claws are always hanging out.

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

Unless the cat was digging in for a jump then it wouldn't push them out far enough to break the skin. Unless this woman had paper-thin skin to begin with.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Um...yeah they do when they are stepping off their foot Kate, it pushes them out a bit. Plus, back toes do not go in the same as front toes, BTW!

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

And...you can disagree all you want. You're still wrong, but you can disagree. :)

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

Clipped nails CAN be sharp, yes. But they don't stick out of a paw like unclipped nails do (typically). So, no, NOT bullshit. Lazy pet parent.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

I had a titer to check if I had toxo when i was preggo with my first. Yup. Did. I still was not allowed to change the litter box due to the high risk of contamination.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Kate, clipped claws are sharp, and can do serious damage. So, bullshit to that.

And nope, I am going to disagree. We are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

No, it's not a blanket statement, it's a fact. People who are around the same germs all the time are far less likely to get an infection from those germs because their body has already built up a tolerance to it. Women who have had a cat for a long period of time and become pregnant are not at as high a risk of toxiplasmosis because their bodies are used to the bacteria. Same thing.

An open wound is an open wound. Period. You factor in an animal's dirty feet or mouth and it's even worse. Speaking from personal experience, here, I did not declaw my cats because I have an immune disorder. Personally, I think that's a stupid reason to declaw a cat. If you're going to declaw a cat because you have an immune disorder you should also remove it's canines so it can't bite you. The woman who got scratched accidentally by her cat needed to cut the cat's claws. If your cat walking on you can scratch you enough to break the skin, their nails are too damn long.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

EEK Lisa, i hope she is ok! Did you take her to the hospital for that? Cat bites are seriously no joke.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Obviously I spoke out of turn using you as an example. My bad. Won't do it again. Did not mean to stir the pot.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

And you have every right to not like cats. But I disagree about people having animals and being used to the bacteria they have so they don't get sick. Really that is way to big of a blanket statement to be throwing around.



This women owned 1 cat when she discovered she was diabetic, and was regulated by insulin. The cat walked across her, stepping on her hand and scratching her (of course accidentally) on her finger. She ignored it. No big deal. She almost lost her finger. Yup. Cat was declawed after that.

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

Cats are evil creatures. :P

*ahem* Sorry, I guess I'm a little biased. But after having been bit by 5 cats in the span of a year, the last event culminating in my eventual hospitalization...I'm a little leery of felines. :P

Minnie - posted on 08/27/2011

Seriously Kate. My MIL's cat is declawed and she did a good number on Adelaide's hand last week with her teeth. Swelled up, pus and everything.

Kate CP - posted on 08/27/2011

Okay, there are AUTO immune diseases and then there are IMMUNE diseases. There IS a difference. Autoimmune diseases or disorders is where the body's immune system attacks itself in some form or fashion. An immune disorder or disease is a disease or disorder where an outside influence of some sort is destroying the immune system. Examples:
Lupus is an autoimmune disease. HIV/AIDS is an immune disease.

So, now that we have THAT clear, I feel I must point something out. If you have an immune disorder, and you KNOW you have an immune disorder, the one thing you're probably NOT going to do is go out and adopt a cute widdle kitty. Those things have teeth and claws and that's just asking for an infection. If a person already has an animal and discovers they have an immune disorder the chances that they'll get sick from the animal they already have is slim to none. Why? Their bodies are already used to the bacteria the animals carry.

The infection I got was from the clinic cat that bit the shit out of me. I got Pasteurella multocida from that damn cat and I nearly fucking DIED. I knew I had an immune disorder before I started working at the vet's office but I was told, at the time, I would be working as a kennel tech and receptionist NOT a damn technician in training or an assistant. So yea, I wasn't happy when I got bit no less than 4 times while holding a cat receiving subcu fluids. The clinic cat rushed in and tried to jump the cat receiving fluids and nailed ME instead. Long story short, after I was stabilized in the hospital my doctor came in and said
"So what do you do for a living?"
"I work at a vet clinic."
*doctor shakes head*
"Uhhh...I'm currently unemployed and looking for work that doesn't involve cats?"
*doctor nods head vigorously*

So...yea. Animals are filthy, filthy creatures. And anyone who tells you that a dog's mouth is cleaner than a human's is either full of shit or just stupid. :P

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Autoimmune diseases are anything from cancer, diabetes, to hiv/aids. There are so many autoimmune diseases, it is mind boggling. For you not to understand that I have dealt with literally countless people with autoimmune diseases, well.....I cannot convince you one way or another. You can look it up, and read up on the diseases yourself. Then you will see that I am telling the truth when I say countless people that I have had as clients with animals, and the owners have an autoimmune disease.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Iris, it really doesn't matter if you believe me about the countless number of people that have diseases that would be relevant for declawing. Here are the stats for Americans with diabetes.

http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/...

Now, think of how many of them own cats.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

And also, that is great that you have lived in so many places. I find it very hard to believe that the similiarities of Wester Europe are so culturally close that it would not be a culture shock for me to move there. Beings that my husband moved to the Midwest (Missouri) from Texas, then to the east coast (Massachusetts) Me from Mass to Missouri....culture shock enough for both of us all around, and that was staying in the USA. Also, my BIL grew up in Ireland, moved all around Europe, to Japan, New Zealand, and was in Australia for 8 years. The biggest culture shock for him was moving to America.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Once again Iris, your question about why I declawed has already been answered in full in this thread. I am genuinely getting tired of repeating myself.

Iris - posted on 08/27/2011

Great article Julianne.
If my cat gets anywhere other then her scratching post all I need to do is snap my fingers and say No. Than again, I knew when we decided to get her that she might damage some things and I was willing to take that chance.

Julianne - posted on 08/27/2011

http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement10...

Iris - posted on 08/27/2011

I still have a hard time to believe in the whole scenario that there is "countless of people "with valid reasons, although I do believe there are people out there that have a valid reason. But what is your reason for declawing Marina? And just to make sure, I'm not attacking you, I'm just genuinely curious. We have been talking about valid reasons and I get that, what I don't get is when you don't have any medical reasons, then why?

Iris - posted on 08/27/2011

Marina, western Europe is not that much different from US. We have many similar policies. I'm from Iceland married to an American. I've lived in Iceland, Denmark, England, Germany, Hawaii and Turkey and we frequently go to the States.

Julianne - posted on 08/27/2011

I know not always. I do know extreme cases of violent animals that had their behavior corrected. A friend of mine owns a dog that was used for fighting and was severely abused. He went to obedient school and through therapy and now the dog is a perfectly behaved house pet. If you can take a dog that was bred and raised to kill, and change it into a kind and loving animal. You can train a cat to sit still while it gets its nails done. If people were willing to take the effort into training a cat to get its nails filed/clipped, instead of chopping off body parts, then a lot less cats would be declawed. Not being able to train bad behavior out is rare IMO.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Gotta get ready kids ready for bed. i will continue to answer the same exact questions over and over and over again when I am done.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

There, I even answered for the actual staffs that I have worked with.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

No one that I have worked with has EVER lasted long actually working with animals. It is to dangerous for people with autoimmune disorders to work with pets with all the physical contact and risk. At least in the busy ass places I have worked at.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

I did answer. I have answered. I did again.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Ummm...I beg to differ.

"~♥Marina♥~ Gallegos
Leader

7,000

21

You - posted 27 minutes ago

Once again Iris, you are simply picking certain points to address. Just like you never answered my European question, and now the point about autoimmune people with cats. Ignoring my other points. Fine. That is how you want to debate this topic. I will answer.

I have known countless patients that were die hard cat lovers that became diabetic. A cat scratch can make them extremely ill, even hospitalized or death. Especially when they are going the the very delicate process of stabilizing their insulin, and that can take months...or longer. Good enough answer? Then their are people like Kate Capeheart (hope you don't mind me using you as an example, so truly sorry if you do) who worked as a vet tech and discovered she had an auto immune disorder BECAUSE she was either bit or scratch...I cannot remember which. You can think it is an unreasonable argument all you want. It is a true scenario that happens more often than you would realize.

Edited to change name to correct person...sorry "

Iris - posted on 08/27/2011

Debarking? never had an answer. How many people had been to the clinic you work for with autoimmune disorder.. never got an answer.

Iris - posted on 08/27/2011

ok got the one on debarking but not the other one

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Not always Julianne.

Iris - posted on 08/27/2011

Debarking? never had an answer. How many people had been to the clinic you work for with autoimmune disorder.. never got an answer.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

And quite frankly, I felt your comparison of pulling out your husbands teeth, and cutting off fishes fins was quite irrelevant, so I suppose we are even.

Julianne - posted on 08/27/2011

Behavioral training can change that. Most bad behavior in animals can be changed with proper technique, time and patience. You can train a cat to sit patient while trimming.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

It is all about context.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

"I just thought your question was irrelevant to the debate" I find it quite relevent. I asked if you were from Europe, because it is a different culture. And I was mainly asking Sherri where exactly in NH she is from....that was not at you.



Edited to add quote

Iris - posted on 08/27/2011

How am I being rude?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

Julianne, good...glad to hear that. It does not work for all animals. Some pets are extremely volatile when it comes to touching their feet.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

I have actually answered everything you have asked me. You have obviously NOT read my answers.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/27/2011

WOWZA! You are really starting to step over the line of being very rude Iris. I HAVE answered your questions. Also, NOT just MY personal opinions. I NEVER saw you ask the question about debarking, unless you were the one that asked it WAY earlier in the debate, and I answered that. I do not support debarking in any way shape or form. Nor do I support ear cropping, or tail cropping unless it is specifically for medical reasons (the tail cropping) which ONCE AGAIN I have answered in full on this debate, and the other debate about dew claw removals. But, ONCE AGAIN, if you had read the entire debate, you would know this.