Do you agree that using meditation and/or prayer after a trauma is an integral part of healing?

Jenny - posted on 06/07/2012

Faith isnt enough for me either.
I remembered something the otherday when reflecting on this, the way they justify it is that it was written by someone who was under the influence of the holy spirit and given that the HS is part of the Trinity, HS would have been there, and therefore able to retell it to the writer.
I totally forgot about that indoctrination! lol. Gosh, it hasnt been that long ago for me, I cant believe I forgot.

Jen - posted on 06/07/2012

I agree Jenny, it's just a thought I've always wondered about both when I was a Christian and now. Never got a good answer to it other than, Have faith which isn't enough for me.

Michelle - posted on 06/07/2012

Jenny Sunner,

" If it isn't in God's plan, it won't be granted". This is what you had said. I do agree on that. That is very well true. It is all up to God to allow a prayer to be answered or not. I do know that. But, I do think He does answer alot of prayers. I have prayed for different things and have some answered. So, I do know not all are answered.
It would be similar to that song..."Unanswered Prayers" by Garth Brooks. His prayer wasnt answered about wanting the girl, for God's plan was to be with someone else.

So, very true.

Erin - posted on 06/06/2012

I believe that if the person believes it will help that it will.

America3437 - posted on 06/06/2012

The Bible has been translated so many times over the years that alot of it was lost in translation. It was origanially written in Hebrew by many people that god spoke to. There is no real way of knowing what is true and fiction. Over the years many books have been added or "lost" conviently. What about the book Mary Magaline wrote that has tellings of what Jesus said to her durning their time togeather. I have read it and it is very interesting and would love to read the missing pages. Found this article while foolin around and thought it was intresting.





http://www.allabouttruth.org/king-james-...

Jenny - posted on 06/06/2012

How can something be retold if it was a monolgue and the individual did not do the retelling?

America3437 - posted on 06/06/2012

The Bible is a retelling of what was said and contradicts itself in my opinion. I pray nightly and alot through the day. I believe it works for me and have many blessings to be thankful for. God has a plan for all and what is in his will to be done will be done and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

Jenny - posted on 06/06/2012

I agree, there is no point!

Very fascinating Jen, you've just shone the light!! How did that prayer come about??? I've no idea! Anyway, my point (which is irrelevant to whether or not he actually did say it) is that bible believers would believe he said it because it is written! and so would/should use that prayer as an example of how they pray. WWJD, no?

In which case, what is the point?

Jen - posted on 06/06/2012

God did not answer Jesus' prayer to "take the cup from him" because it was against God's plan for Jesus' life, not because his prayer was not heartfelt. One's prayer may be heartfelt, but if what one is asking is not part of Gods plan, it wont be granted.
---
So there is absolutely no point in praying.

BTW, on a Scriptural note, how does anyone know what Jesus said while in the garden at Gethsemenee? All the apostles were asleep, in fact that is a very strong point of the story - that he was all alone.

There was no time for anyone to interview him afterwards.

Jen - posted on 06/06/2012

But of course not always does a prayer come true. So, 50/50 chance....I would have to say that God chooses whom he grants a prayer. He knows ones heart. Some prayers are not heartfelt.
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Your anecdote is interesting but hardly worth considering without actual data to review.

Besides if it really is 50/50 and you have to really mean it, it's sadistic in the worst way.

Same mom in your scenario sees her child get hit and says, ''Well you disobeyed me and I don't think you're sincere enough in your pleas for help so I'll just stand by."

Jenny - posted on 06/06/2012

What do I think about that? I don't think that God will choose to intervene in that story more than he would the in the story with the person walking out on the street out of stupidity. I have heard stories of people being plain stupid and God interevening because he had a plan to turn them to Christ so that he could use that person to bring so many others to God.



I think a bible believer should pray as Jesus did. Make one's request, but know that God is incontrol and surrender to his will. "Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”



God did not answer Jesus' prayer to "take the cup from him" because it was against God's plan for Jesus' life, not because his prayer was not heartfelt. One's prayer may be heartfelt, but if what one is asking is not part of Gods plan, it wont be granted.

Michelle - posted on 06/06/2012

Jenn Sunner,
If you want to believe in Evolution or whatever you believe in, that is your choice to choose. Wether you believe in God or no God. That's your choice. You can believe in prayers or not, your choice again. I believe that God will allow things to happen. Sometimes God will allow things to happen to see what you will do as well. As for prayer, yes some do recieve what they ask for. Some do not. Sometimes without us knowing, the prayer that wasn't answered was for the best, wether we see it that way or not. Yes, so many do die and I guess our prayers weren't answered, but in other cases, our prayers are. I believe God does look out for us. But, as for us having to do our part, Yes, I do believe that. What makes one think if they cannot help themselves, that God will do it all for you. For an example one person ends up in the hospital because of an overdose of drugs... That person prays for God to intervene so, she or he don't die. If she/ he does die...Why didn't that person think about what she was doing...she was killing herself. Okay another example... a person sees a vehicle coming down the road and walks out in front of them and gets killed...Yes, God allowed them to die. For I think it would be because of stupidity. Another example...God does help and listens to a prayer. A mother is standing next to a road and is holding her sons hand in hers, telling him to not to run off or anything. Well the son pulls away and runs out in the road and gets hit. Well they go to the hospital , the son is in critical condition. His life is hanging on by a thread. The mother was trying her best to care for her child and the son didn't listen and pulled away. She prays and prays to God to help and heal her son. The doctors may come in and say that's all they can do, it is up to the child if he takes effect of anything that was given to him. Nothing has happened, no progress at all. The mothers prays to God and asks Him to intervene. Well that morning, her son is wide awake and happy and fells no pain. He is ready to be discharged. The doctors are stunned at what happened.
What do you think about that. The mother had done her part in trying to prevent something that still did occur, God intervene and saved that boy.
You do have to do your part in ways for God to sometimes to intervene. Sometimes, maybe God will intervene without you doing any part that you thought you didn't do.
But of course not always does a prayer come true. So, 50/50 chance....I would have to say that God chooses whom he grants a prayer. He knows ones heart. Some prayers are not heartfelt.

Jenn - posted on 06/05/2012

The mind is a powerful thing...truly. Even scientists know that. It is one reason the brain is far from being understood. I can will myself to cry. I can focus on my pain and have it overwhelm me...I can also concentrate on something other than my pain and suffering, thus allowing myself to heal, IF my body is meant to heal. Everyone has this capability. Prayer is a type of meditation. If one is praying correctly, then they ask for what is meant to be, to be. That allows them to release all the stress and anxiety, which can often allow the body to heal itself. Willpower. The state of a person's mental and physical health, their genetics and chemical makeup. Often enhanced by religious or spiritual beliefs, sometimes hindered by it. Nothing about humans is simple so I don't believe merely prayer or lack thereof is all there is to it.

Jenny - posted on 05/28/2012

Michelle, if you have an open and inquisitive mind, allow yourself to think for one second, what if what these people are telling me is true? Just give them the benefit of the doubt. Why don't you say, okay, let's say for a minute that evolution is fact, how does that explain X (whatever you have trouble understanding about it). Or you could say, where can I find information to prove to me that evolution is fact, where is this evidence that you are talking about? And if there is evidence, they will be able to point you to it and you will be able to see it for yourself.

I want to get back to what you said about prayer.

"God also said that you have to do your part before He does intervene." Where did he say this? I'm more familiar with him saying "Ask and you shall receive." That's all you have to do as your part, from my understanding. So what else did he say you have to do?

At the beginning of your post you talk about how God will allow people to die even if they ask him in prayer not to die. Because only he knows why. And then at the end you say "He is someone who listens to you when pray and ask for help." Well, this is not necessarily true is it? It's more like "He is someone who may or may not listen to you when you pray and ask for help." In which case, why bother asking him for help when it's a 50/50 chance that he may help you?

If only it was true that God answers your prayers, it would be a lot easier to bring people to Christianity. You could tell them "Trust in God, he is good and will help you when you are in need if you but ask." And they will be like, well I don't know, but I can only try. And so they pray for their sick child and God heals him/her then and there, and then they will be like, "Wow, it is true that God answers prayers."

Maybe the fact that we are even asking questions like "does God answer prayers, do prayers bring healing?" show us that the answer is NO. If the answer were yes, we would have all known about it already and not need to ask.

Johnny - posted on 05/28/2012

1. History, science, knowledge all change as we gain more information, more evidence. Science is designed to process this new information and offer an updated hypothesis and alter theories to fit with new data.

2. The theory of evolution does not disprove the existence of God. It disproves creation myths including that of the Christian Bible. Just a note that a scientific theory is NOT the same as a theory you or I might just come up with. To become a scientific theory, a concept must provide evidence and be subjected to extensive testing and rigorous re-testing.

3. Science has not yet answered the big "how did it all start" question. There is a lot of knowledge about what didn't happen, such as we know for sure that the world was not created 600 years ago. But it is not known how the universe began as of yet.

4. And I'm not sure where you get the idea that science knows when the world is going to end?

Krista - posted on 05/28/2012

Sigh...where to start:

Besides, if people don't believe God put you here, then why did many schools and organizations preach about God back then.

It was probably for the same reason that a lot of schools used to say that the Earth was flat. People just didn't know any better back then.

I will not say we are brought here on earth from an evolution.

And that is fine, if you choose to not believe. However, unlike religion, there is an extremely large amount of objective evidence supporting evolution. So you not believing in it is like saying that you don't believe that gravity exists.

You say that animals and plants don't have anything to do with it....Why not? You want to get on the subject that God didn't make us. Well what made animals and plants then?

Animals and plants all evolved from single-cell organisms, which arose from amino acids. And we continue to evolve.

You think that I'm ingorant about this scientific crap...

Yes. We do. You don't even know what evidence is, and think that evolutionary theory means that we are all descended directly from the modern ape. So yes. You are very ignorant about scientific matters, I'm afraid.

well lets see....do you believe the world is gonna end this year in December? Do you think all humanity and everything else is going to be gone caput?

No, and neither do any reputable scientists. In fact, I would venture to say that any "end of the world" scenarios have been solely the domain of the religious. The only reputable scientist who I have seen speaking about the end of the world is Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who has predicted that in 5 billion years, the sun will expand and engulf our orbit, vaporizing the charred ember that was once Earth.

Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself, Michelle. You are dismissive of science when you have proven repeatedly that you know not the first thing about it. I have no issue with you having your own beliefs. But to pretend that your religious beliefs are just as verifiable and just as evidence-based as science is really quite ridiculous.

Jenny - posted on 05/28/2012

Egad, where to start. First of all, the thing with facts is they are true whether one believes or not. That's why they are called facts. Second, humans are animals and all animals and plants are here because of evolution. Evolution is the reason for the diversity of species. Survivial of the fittest through genetic mutation and natural selection. It's kind of like how Chihuahuas and Great Danes both came from wolves with no other species added in but over the course of billions of years and naturally occuring.



No, I don't beleive the Earth will cease to exist in 2012 and it is most certainly not science. We're pretty safe unless we do ourselves in by polluting our environment, an asteroid hits us or the sun blows up. I don't live my life scared of death so I couldn't care less when it comes.



"Besides, if people don't believe God put you here, then why did many schools and organizations preach about God back then. No, not many schools has God in the picture anymore. But if a school didn;t believe about God, who taught many about history would not have had God in the picture in the first place. They took God out of the picture because people wants to take God out period. Noone wants to believe about God"



That is mostly cultural. That's why you are more likely to be a Christian than a Muslim. You were exposed to it. Not to mention a lot of people used to get killed for not believing in god. Non-beleif is growing swiftly because of the access to information and people coming out and saying publically that not believing is an option. The antics of religious groups also does it's own part to scare people away. It's hard to take the pope seriously on poverty when he's wearing gold clothes and sitting on a throne.

Stifler's - posted on 05/28/2012

I think maybe people get better because they believe God is on their side and if they know people are praying for them they know people care and want them around it lifts their spirits and will eat more and take their medication rather than refusing.

Michelle - posted on 05/28/2012

I tell you one thing...If you want to believe in evolution..and you are made from an ape...gorilla or from that family...Then so be it. I do however still believe that GOD put us here..Not some evolution. YOU can believe it all you want...the same as the world being too overpoppulated. You tell me to read up on it. If you go back and read it yourself amongst many different history books, History says one thing and then says another. It condradicts itself. It doesn't say the same thing in every history book about the same subject. Besides, if people don't believe God put you here, then why did many schools and organizations preach about God back then. No, not many schools has God in the picture anymore. But if a school didn;t believe about God, who taught many about history would not have had God in the picture in the first place. They took God out of the picture because people wants to take God out period. Noone wants to believe about God. So you say that I am not getting the picture...You are trying to say that I am wrong and you are right. First off..It is you that is not getting the picture here. I cannot say that I know everything of course, I don;t. Neither do you. So in both of our worlds...they diffently isnt the same is neither right nor wrong in either of our eyes.
I will not say we are brought here on earth from an evolution. You say that animals and plants don't have anything to do with it....Why not? You want to get on the subject that God didn't make us. Well what made animals and plants then?
You think that I'm ingorant about this scientific crap...well lets see....do you believe the world is gonna end this year in December? Do you think all humanity and everything else is going to be gone caput?
If you believe in all scientific things...I guess you believe in that too. God says..Noone will not Know the time or the hour of when Jesus Christ returns. So therefore a specific...scientific date of the world ending cannot be gone by.Not all scientists knows everything as you recall. God gave them knowledge for some things., not for all things.

Jenny - posted on 05/28/2012

Good grief Michelle. Your scientific ignorance is showing. If you don't believe in gravity you will not float off the Earth. Similarly, not beleiving in evolution does not mean you didn't evolve. It's not a debatable theory anymore, you are in the realm of flat-Earthers if you deny evolution.

Johnny - posted on 05/28/2012

Well, I wasn't "made from an ape", I share a common primate ancestor with apes (gorillas, orangutans, monkeys, etc.). This is not the same thing. Just to break it down very simply, it is similar to how my cousin and I share a common ancestor of my grandfather, which does not mean I was made from my cousin. Our DNA has similar patterns because we share that same ancestor, it does not require us to be descended directly from one another.

This sort of basic misunderstanding of evolution and how beings (plant and animal) is indicative of a lack of understanding of science. Our scientific understanding of how we evolved just on this planet is actually fairly comprehensive and detailed, backed up by evidence from a myriad of fields of study including geology, biology, chemistry, paleontology, astrophysics.... On the other hand, there has been very little evidence unearthed (not for lack of trying in a positive manner) to support what is said in the bible to be taken literally.

YOU have to read up on it.

Michelle - posted on 05/28/2012

Krista, It is funny to me that people wants to believe that they came from an ape. Heck I guess it would be okay to go with an ape if you are from an ape or shall I say..your genes is from an ape.
I would rather be happy to be made from the image of God. Not from something that don't look like anyone. Have you actually looked in the mirror...Do you look like an ape? If you would have genes from the Ape...Then women could have a child that looks like one. Genetic history is and can be passed down from generations and even skip a generation and go to another. Now I think it is ludercrious to think you are from an ape.....!. Now you think dust is bad. COme on...We may not agree. But, I'm not arguing with you...I'm stating my opinion and fact.

Krista - posted on 05/28/2012

Sigh. Michelle.

The trees and plants and animals were not put here by man OR by deity.

But there's really no point in arguing, as you refuse to believe in evolution, despite the mountain of REAL evidence behind it.

Besides, you think it's funny that we evolved from an ape-like ancestor. And I think it's ludicrous to think that we were made from dust, and that we women were made from some guy's rib. How THAT is more feasible to you is truly beyond me.

Michelle - posted on 05/28/2012

Want evidence.....Well look around...who made these trees, plants and etc. No, man didn't make them...God put them here. I guess people made the animals too. No, God made them as well. The evidence is in the bible..King James...God made the heaven and earth and man from His Image. The book of Genesis tells you that. If you back into scientific history tells you all about Jesus Christ and how He lived His life and that He was resurrected. There are proof with scientific history. You actually have to read up on it. We didn't get here from evolution..Who wants to consider them being made from apes? I sure don't! But I am not going to waste my breathe on people who thinks that they are made from an ape.

Krista - posted on 05/28/2012

Michelle, you are not really understanding the definition of the term "evidence".

TRUE evidence is completely objective. There is no faith or belief system required.

All of your "evidence" requires a belief in a particular deity. It is not objective in the least. Therefore, it is not true evidence.

As an example, I could say that a rock is stronger than glass. My evidence? I can break glass with a rock. Millions of people could watch me do this, and regardless of their faith, nationality, beliefs or education level, it is indisputable that I have broken glass with a rock. My audience does not have to believe in anything I believe in, in order to see it.

That is evidence. It is universal and objective.

You BELIEVE that God made everything here. But that is not the same thing as evidence.

Jenny - posted on 05/28/2012

Michelle, that is like saying Harry Potter is evidence that England exists. We are a product of evolution and there is actual evidence to back that up. If it requires faith or beleif it is likely not real.

Michelle - posted on 05/28/2012

Jen, Not to be smart or anything...BUT, YOU ARE GOD'S EVIDENCE. He made you and everyone else. You may not believe, but all mankind is God's evidence along with every living creature and plant life. If it wasn't for God putting the days, nights, land, water and people made from His Image...No humans would even be here.

Jen - posted on 05/28/2012

He is not some fairytale or a mystical creature...
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Then there would be existent evidence.

Michelle - posted on 05/28/2012

Some people, even Godly people will die. Yes many of them prayed and asked God to intervene. Sometimes God allows some to die. God also said that you have to do your part before He does intervene.
One who has faith and believes in healing can be healed. Some may believe that God is going to heal and they die anyways. But God allows it. God may feel that it is their time to go on.Sometimes when people you love do die, you wonder why God allowed it. But you can never answer that question, for God is the only one who knows why. One day we will know why.
But, I do believe that God has a healing power. Jesus Christ had healed many who had faith and asked of Him to help them. He healed a blind man to be able to see. He healed a child who was dying. He healed a leprocy woman. He had healed a man who had a demon in him and sent the demon into pigs. It is all in the king James Bible.
Some people do not believe there is a God or a Father who had put us here on earth. Some may not believe that He heals the sick and allows some to die. God is a Great, Almighty God. He is someone who listens to you when pray and ask for help. I do not assume all people believe there is a God. For I know not all believer in a God. That is their decisions and this is my decision of believing there is a True God who has healing power. He is not some fairytale or a mystical creature...

Jen - posted on 05/27/2012

I believe He will help you as long as you ask.

So, um, what about all of those people who DID ask, but died anyway?
--
Stock answer: Sometimes God says No. We can't judge him or his decisions. We are mere worms beneath his greatness.

Rebecca - posted on 05/27/2012

Here's the thing lady "believers", having faith and being positive, using visualization...all of that, it still works without the whole Jesus/God bit attached. You say that prayer works because a magical fairy makes your positive thoughts come true. What if it is just you own positive energy and thought that improves illness? It really is not needed to add God into it. It works on its own. Of course, it can only work to a point and then some people just get sicker and die - even good, Godly people.

Krista - posted on 05/27/2012

I believe He will help you as long as you ask.

So, um, what about all of those people who DID ask, but died anyway?

Michelle - posted on 05/27/2012

I believe that when one is with God or believes in God or shall I say has faith. Faith is something that you believe in that noone can see. I do believe that many people do get healed when they pray to God for His help and strength. God is a powerful God. I believe He will help you as long as you ask. If you do your part in things in life, He will intervene. There has been times that my children, myself has gotton sick, we did take medication as well, but I still prayed to God for His help...Especially with my children. One night I prayed over my son to make him better because he just got stung by a hornet around 10 times. He was taking medication for it, but he cried and cried. For one day and night my husband and I stayed up with him. I prayed over him. I asked God to heal him, to take the pain away and if there was any poisons in the areas to draw them out. The next day, my son stopped crying. He said the pain wasn't there like it was and that the bee sting areas felt different. Well I checked the areas out and there was clear fluid leaking out. After that day. The fluid dried up and he never ever complained anymore. He is still afraid of getting stung..If he sees a bee , he runs in the house. I do believe God helped. For he could have been worse.
There has been many instances in my life and my families lives to where God has intervened in many things. Some that some people may not even believe. But I know it was him and that is what counts.

Ginger - posted on 05/25/2012

I think that prayer has power! It has been proven that babies in the nicu do better if they are in good spirits with family who is able to read to them and pray with them. It is proven that stress can not only aggrivate illness, but also create illness. When one has faith and prays and it brings peace the body relaxes and that is how healing can begin. God brings peace when humans can not fathom peace. God brought peace over my Son and myself when he was born early and the peace we had have helped us and he shows no signs of being born early. However without the loving doctors who provided him medical support, he may not be here.

There for I believe both prayer and medicine are important!

God gives people the drive to be doctor's, nurses, researches.. ect. It is their faith that brings them through the hard times so they can do their job.

Beth - posted on 05/20/2012

I think there is something to be said for the benefits that relaxation and calmness can bring, but your whole heart and soul have to believe in prayer/meditation or it won't work. And I'm sure it won't work for every ailment in every person, we're all different and our bodies work in different ways.

Krista - posted on 05/18/2012

Oh, and just for the record, there were people on every continent (I think we may have even got researchers in Antarctica involved) praying for my friend, night and day.



Didn't work.

Isobel - posted on 05/18/2012

and by nice I mean niiiiiiiiiiice

Krista - posted on 05/18/2012

Mmm...bacon-wrapped lobster....

Krista - posted on 05/18/2012

It IS a nice theory, though, so I can see why it attracts you. It does neatly address the question of how one can be happy in Heaven if their loved ones are still in the living world.

Isobel - posted on 05/18/2012

God says you're not supposed to eat lobster or bacon...if you follow that rule, you are DEFINITELY missing a very important part of life.

Krista - posted on 05/18/2012

The after life theory that I like best is that God (and Heaven) exists outside of time, so when you die you do 'immediately' go to Heaven, but everyone else that is going to Heaven is already there.

Wasn't that the ending of Lost? ;)

Dove - posted on 05/18/2012

Of course, living here is life... that's why life was in quotes. There IS definitely some good stuff here. What I meant was that this isn't ALL there is and what is after is so much better than anyone could ever imagine. Just about everyone I know in person DOES believe that.

The after life theory that I like best is that God (and Heaven) exists outside of time, so when you die you do 'immediately' go to Heaven, but everyone else that is going to Heaven is already there. That's the one I like best, but I don't think I can explain it quite right. I know people that believe that. I know people that believe like you said earlier. And there are a few other ideas in there as well and I know people that believe those too.

Krista, #1) Yes. #2) Yes. For how... see the theory I like best.

I hate getting into these debates since I get so frustrated (mostly with myself), so please take it easy on me. I just like sharing. :)

Isobel - posted on 05/18/2012

The pope decided that there isn't a purgatory anymore last year.

Krista - posted on 05/18/2012

If you believe in God then you 'know' that death is not the end, so while someone dying sure sucks for the people still around on this earth... believers can, hopefully, see and take comfort in the 'fact' that the deceased loved one is in a MUCH better place than this earth could ever be. Living on this earth is NOT 'life.'

I do have a few quibbles/comments on that, though:
1. Do you think it's at all possible that SOME (not all, but some) people are faithful simply because the idea of a permanent, "lights-out" death terrifies them? So they believe in an afterlife simply to try to allay that fear?
2. Is "heaven" always the better place to be, though? I'm thinking specifically of my best friend who just died. She was only 36, and had two little girls, 5 years old and 18 months old. She had a loving husband, tons of friends, and a tight-knit family. And after she died, I saw someone make the remark that she was in Heaven and happy. And it really just baffled the heck out of me. How could any afterlife, no matter how amazing, be better than being with your babies? If Jen, just for argument's sake, IS in Heaven, she's there without any of her immediate loved ones. Why would she be happy? How, even from a theological perspective, could Heaven possibly be a "better" place for her than here on Earth, reading her girls their bedtime stories?

Jenny - posted on 05/18/2012

Yes....but my question is do any of them believe that as soon as you die you go straight to heaven?



And to the "missing out" on life here and now, if your focus is on God and the bible, then you will be missing out on life in ways you wouldnt even realise.



I for example missed out on a good scientific education because my faith in those days stated that there were no such things as dinasours and the earth was created 6 thousand years ago. So I automatically tuned out in science class. Obviously at the time I did not feel I was missing out, but now looking back on it, I realise I mised out on a proper educaion to some degree.



I know this is not the case for everyone, but this is one example (probably a lame one) of how you may be missing out on life.



When you were trying to explain some peoples beliefs you said "Living on this earth is NOT 'life". I am positive that anybody with this type of attitude is missing out on LIFE here on earth! Now if you dont know anyone who is missing out on life, it is most likely because you dont know anyone who actually believes in their heart that "Living on this earth is NOT 'life".



Now, you may not know anyone like this, but I sure do. I have lived like that and all of my family still live like that to their best of their ability. So again, back to your comment, a) can you see how it does not make sense to me and b) if you dont know anyone who lives like that then it probably doesnt even make any sense to you either.

Dove - posted on 05/18/2012

I don't know one single person who is 'missing out' on life here and now. Granted, I don't doubt that those people are out there. I just don't happen to know any.

There are several different interpretations of the end time events by many different people who, yes, do believe in the God of the Bible is all I can say to that part.

Jenny - posted on 05/18/2012

I know how it's meant to make sense from the persepective of believing in God, but I don't think it actually makes any sense. You end up missing out on your "real" life because you are too fixated on the "eternal" life which is pre-ordained by God anyway. The "eternal" life where we will spend eternity worshiping God and singing our life away.

Either way, even if you do believe in God, I challenge you to tell me that you actually believe that if your child dies they go straight to heaven. If you believe in the biblical God, then you should know that that is not actually the case, and that they will just be in a "deep sleep" until judgment day and the second resurrection. So until that day comes (which has not come for over 2000 years now) whether you believe in the biblical God or you dont believe in God, in both cases the dead stay dead or "asleep" if you will.

So I don't really get how that can be anymore comforting.

Dove - posted on 05/18/2012

I don't want to debate (yes, I'm aware I'm in a debating forum), but I do want to try and share a comment that will hopefully make sense even if you don't agree.

If you believe in God then you 'know' that death is not the end, so while someone dying sure sucks for the people still around on this earth... believers can, hopefully, see and take comfort in the 'fact' that the deceased loved one is in a MUCH better place than this earth could ever be. Living on this earth is NOT 'life.'

Like I said, I hope that makes at least one tiny iota of sense even if you 100% disagree with me. :)

Krista - posted on 05/18/2012

That's fair enough, thank you. And I chose my words poorly when I said that you were "shitting on your mom". I still don't understand why you give your god, and not her, the credit for leaving, but that's between you and her.

One thing to keep in mind, is that a lot of the devout seem to operate under the assumption that atheists and agnostics are not informed about the Christian god. I assure you that there are plenty of us out there who had religious upbringings and who went to church every Sunday, went to Sunday school, read the Bible, and could be considered quite reasonably well-informed as to the theological aspects of this particular deity. So my rejection of belief is not coming from a place of ignorance, actually. It's simply coming from being presented with the "case for God", as it were, and remaining thoroughly unconvinced.

But thank you for clarifying -- it's very much appreciated.

America3437 - posted on 05/18/2012

Actually the comment was made in genuine concern not because I think your an idiot. I was referring to your knowledge of my God not your actual intelligence. I am certin you are a very smart lady so it wasn't said to hurt your feelings anymore than the comment about me shitting on my mom! I believe in god but NEVER claimed to be a christian. I don't really believe in the whole church thing, It is more about paying your tithe then praise and worship.