Do you believe in God or a Higher Power of some kind?

Sara - posted on 02/10/2011 ( 221 moms have responded )

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Why or why not?

I'm reading a book about the existence of God and it's really got me thinking about things. So I was just wondering for some of you on here if you do believe in God or not and why....indulge me! :)

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Isobel - posted on 02/11/2011

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it's kinda like the Koran right? There is a passage that says, you are not to beat your wife with anything heavier than a feather.



most people would interpret that to mean "don't beat your wife" right? nope...



They have debates all the time on the definition of these "feather beatings" does it mean you can beat her with your hands so long as you aren't holding anything heavy? what if we measured the size of a feather and determined this "feather beating" by the size, because the word "weight" might have been mis-translated over the years. Maybe we can "poke" her with the sharp end of a feather.

...........................................

And before you tell me that this was not a Christian text...my post was not about Christianity or Islam...it was about the misinterpretation of holy texts by men who would seek to make it WHAT THEY WANT IT TO BE rather than what it truly is.



If you don't think a few men have slipped their two cents into the bible while "translating" it...I'm afraid you may be mistaken.

Johnny - posted on 02/11/2011

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In surveys of religiousity, it has been found that atheists/agnostics and Jews are the most knowledgeable about what IS in the bible. Perhaps because most of us have read it ourselves when trying to understand our ambivalence towards this God everyone keeps talking about. I too have read the bible. I found some parts quite inspirational, and Jesus was a great man whose actual word I wish more would follow. But generally it was quite a silly series of books. I have also read the Quran and the Bhagavad Gitas (not all). I have studied Mormonism and Sufi mysticism. It was in my study of Sufism that I finally found some solace and answers as to why my search for God was coming up empty. I was looking outside, to books, spiritual leaders, bibles, etc to give me some indication of what "god" is. But to understand faith and existence, you first have to start from the inside and know yourself. The books, bibles, Qurans all just offer parables of what men think God says. Reading the bible again isn't very likely to change my mind.

When my husband was young, his mother made him read the entire bible several times. As a result, he is no longer a Christian. You have to have faith to believe that the bible is true before simply reading it will sway you feelings. In all these arguments, Christians point to the fact that something is in the bible to prove that the bible is true. That kind of circular logic only works for those wishing to take a leap of faith.

Just a side note, I always find it perplexing when people offer me "Gods blessings." Did he tell you to? Are you guys in contact and he's asked you to pass them on? Are you sure he wants you to give them to a bunch of atheists?

Krista - posted on 02/11/2011

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Meaghan, you're being rather presumptuous again. How do you know that none of us have read the Bible?

Or are you so arrogant as to think that it is IMPOSSIBLE to read the Bible without coming out converted?

I've read the Bible. I was raised Catholic, went to church, the whole nine yards. I never believed. Ever. I have always thought the entire concept of deities to be utterly ludicrous.

Your faith obviously makes you happy, so that's great. Good for you. I'm not going to try to convert you.

All that I ask is that you grant me the same respect, and quit with the insulting implications that our lives are not fulfilling because we don't happen to believe in your invisible friend, m'kay?

Sara - posted on 02/11/2011

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You want to talk about the God of the Bible? Ok, let's start with the old testament, shall we?



The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.



Here's the proof, right from scripture:



jealous and proud of it



How jealous and proud is he? Well, his name is Jealous. And he named himself!



For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Exodus 34:14

Here are some more verses where God brags about his jealousy.



I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Exodus 20:5

For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. Deuteronomy 4:24

I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Deuteronomy 5:9

(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth. Deuteronomy 6:15

The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven. Deuteronomy 29:20

They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. Deuteronomy 32:16

They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Deuteronomy 32:21

He is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. Joshua 24:19

And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins. 1 Kings 14:22

And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy. Ezekiel 8:3

Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry. Ezekiel 8:5

I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. Ezekiel 16:38

So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry. Ezekiel 16:42

And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire. Ezekiel 23:25

Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen. Ezekiel 36:5

For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel. Ezekiel 38:19

God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; Nahum 1:2

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. Zechariah 1:14

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. Zechariah 8:2

All the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. Zephaniah 3:8

a petty,

A golden bell and a pomegranate ... shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy place before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not. Exodus 28:34-35

Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee. Leviticus 19:19



Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 17:1



Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together. Deuteronomy 22:11



Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself. Deuteronomy 22:12



He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1



A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation. Deuteronomy 23:2



unjust,

If thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn. Exodus 4:23

The LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast. Exodus 13:15



I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Exodus 20:5



Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers. Isaiah 14:21



See here for a list of 878 Old Testament injustices.



unforgiving

He is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. Joshua 24:19



Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble. Jeremiah 11:14



When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence. Jeremiah 14:12



Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them. Ezekiel 8:18



control-freak;

But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: ... The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods (hemorrhoids), and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: ... Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: ... The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. ... And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters ... The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter, And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them. Deuteronomy 28:15-68

a vindictive,

I kill .. I wound ... I will render vengeance to mine enemies ... I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. Deuteronomy 32:39-42

He will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries. Deuteronomy 32:43



To me belongeth vengeance and recompence ... for the day of their calamity is at hand. Deuteronomy 32:35



And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them. Nunbers 11:1



Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine: Jeremiah 11:22



For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood. Jeremiah 46:10



And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard. Micah 5:15



bloodthirsty

And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD. Leviticus 4:17



And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. Leviticus 26:29



I kill .. I wound ... I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. Deuteronomy 32:39-42



But God shall wound the head of his enemies ... That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same. Psalm 68:21-23



For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. Isaiah 34:2-3



For my sword shall be bathed in heaven. Isaiah 34:5



The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, ... their land shall be soaked with blood, ... For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance. Isaiah 34:7-8



And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine. Isaiah 49:26



I will ... trample them in my fury; and their blood ... will stain all my raiment. Isaiah 63:2-6



And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. Jeremiah 19:9



For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood. Jeremiah 46:10



Cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood. Jeremiah 48:10



Thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. Ezekiel 39:17



Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth. Ezekiel 39:18



And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. Ezekiel 39:19



And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Zephaniah 1:17



ethnic cleanser;

Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 13:15



Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3



a misogynistic,

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, an do ye to them as is good in your eyes. Genesis 19:8



Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife. 1 Samuel 18:27



And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged. Leviticus 19:20



And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Leviticus 21:9



And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Nunbers 31:15-19



And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women ... shalt thou take unto thyself. Deuteronomy 20:13-14



And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her .... Thou shalt go in unto her. Deuteronomy 21:11-13



If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated .... Deuteronomy 21:15



If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... Deuteronomy 22:13



I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid. Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city. But if ... the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:14-21



If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24



When two men strive together on with another, and the wife of the one ... putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her. Deuteronomy 25:11-12



Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30



Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife. 1 Samuel 18:27



Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 2 Samuel 12:11



And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD Ezekiel 26:6



homophobic,

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 18:22



If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13



racist,

One of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses ... And when Phinehas ... saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. Numbers 25:6-8



The LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deuteronomy 7:6



An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever. Deuteronomy 23:3



infanticidal,

At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon. Exodus 12:29



Ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. Leviticus 26:16



I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children. Leviticus 26:22



And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. Leviticus 26:29



Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. ... And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick... on the seventh day, that the child died. 2 Samuel 12:14-18



Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers. Ezekiel 5:10



And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. Jeremiah 19:9



genocidal,

Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 13:5



But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. Deuteronomy 20:16-17



So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40



Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3



filicidal,

And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering. Genesis 22:2



For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death. Leviticus 20:9



And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Leviticus 21:9



If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods ... hou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Deuteronomy 13:6-10



Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9



pestilential,

And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. Nunbers 11:33



And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Nunbers 21:6



The hand of the LORD was against the city ... and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts. 1 Samuel 5:9



So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? ... So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel ... and there died of the people ... seventy thousand men. 2 Samuel 24:13



So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee: and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it. Ezekiel 5:17



megalomaniacal,

Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly. 2 Samuel 22:8-11



Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 38:23



sadomasochistic,

Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 23:34



capriciously malevolent

Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark ... fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. Ezekiel 9:4-7



Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them. Ezekiel 8:18



And the cities that are inhabited shall be laid waste, and the land shall be desolate; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 12:20



bully.

And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy. Jeremiah 15:3

And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 38:21-23

Sara - posted on 02/11/2011

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That's exactly it, Laura. Just because you cannot prove that something exists doesn't mean that it exists!!!!! Just like the celestial teapot or the pink rabbit in Krista's duodedum that likes Taco Bell. Lack of proof is NOT proof, that's illogical.



You have to think to a certain extent that Christianity is just a product of our culture. You are Christian because, more than likely your parents were Christian and so forth. But if you'd been born in India you'd be buddhist. If you'd been born in China you might believe in Shenism-Taoism. If you'd be born in some villiage in Africa you might believe in the Gods of the mountain. If you'd lived 2000 years ago, you might believe in Zeus or Thor or the plethora of other Gods that have come before. Yet, you don't believe (I'm assuming) in those other Gods, do you? How is that any different from someone not chosing to believe in a Judeo-Christian God? Just because you believe something doesn't make it correct. I'm chosing, as an atheist, to reject the assertion that God exists due to lack of evidence.

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~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/22/2012

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*****Old thread, locking it. Feel free to start a new debate*****



~DM MoD Little Miss~

Desiree - posted on 11/22/2012

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I believe completely that God exist I may not understand why things happen. I am not meant too either.

Barbara - posted on 11/20/2012

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YES how else would you explain this world? I do hope that Peace will come. We all need to live together and love each other. No more WARS. Its 2012 and we all should know better!!!!!

Meghan - posted on 02/25/2011

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have not read any of the previous posts.
My mom's mom was schizophrenic and her "out lit" was the church. My Grandmother felt that she was was a messenger of God and that the members of every church she involved herself with, were jealous because God chose her as a "messenger". She ended up killing herself "in the name of God." Religion is an emotional issue for my mother, but she raised us to accept and believe in whatever we felt was right for us and never once guided us away from religion. She took us to church if we felt we were interested, she took us to Christmas pageants-she basically encouraged us to develop our own spirituality. As an adult I realize that was probably really hard for her but I respect her SO much for it.
Generally I tend to veer more towards Karma. I want to live my life as a kind, thoughtful person. I refuse to throw my eggs in one basket. I work hard, I play hard, I teach my son the same rules I live by- to respect everything/one around him and move on from those who don't treat him the same. If there does happen to be a judgment day where I stand before a "God" that has so many different myths, faces, points of importance the one thing I can truly say is I did the best I could.

[deleted account]

Katie- I made 2 posts on your board last night telling you what happened! : )

I accidently logged in under my nieces facebook account and didnt realize it so I deleted it and posted it again under my account. Sorry for the confusion!

Nikkole - posted on 02/24/2011

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I am a believer in GOD, i attend church on occasion, but me and my husband don't believe you MUST attend ONE church every Sunday to pray and speak about god! And to me a lot of churches today are just worried on how fancy there church is and a lot of Christians (not all) are very two faced and very pushy about converting others who believe different! My mother in law is like this and i can't stand it, its ONE thing to speak about god and his word its another to force it don someones throat not all Christians are like that!! I can't explain why i believe i just do and it makes me happy and doesn't hurt anyone else!


I also saw that post now twice with 2 different names

Rosie - posted on 02/24/2011

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somebody had posted earlier who didn't have a picture, and had the name aryan. her post in now gone, and in it's place (a few posts up) is now a post from stephanie hernandez saying the same thing. i'm now even more confused, lol! but yeah, it had nothing to do with you, that person had posted right before your post, so it made it look like i was talking to you after it was deleted.

[deleted account]

@Maria Hernandez-

You said: "he is in my heart and soul and he is always in the back of my mind whenever i do anything."

I am just curious if you implemented this strategy when you told me...and I quote..."I hope you get raped and murdered"?

This is not an attack- I am honestly curious how you think God would view this bc in my opinion you are being a hippocrit by talking about the Lord like you're living the gospel and then in private you are saying things like this. I think you are putting up a front.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/24/2011

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Christine, that was a very nice way to put it. I am glad you got a chance to speak your mind on the issue.

Rosie - posted on 02/24/2011

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and who exactly are you? i've looked back a couple pages and don't see anything like you've described? i'm confused...

Vegemite - posted on 02/23/2011

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ok so i've read and skimmed through pages 1-8, I can't believe I've missed this.

Here's my take on God, religion, the Bible, science, whatever else and some of the things that have been said in this debate.



A bit of background on me: I was brought up Catholic as a teenager I rebelled and moved out of home at 13 (came and went over again). Got into drugs, stole to pay bills and sometimes spent nights on the streets. I'm now a Christian, I do not subscribe to any denomination as I don't like religion.

I read the Bible often mainly Psalms, Proverbs and red letters (words of Christ) in the New Testament. I'm not much into the Old Testament because Jesus came to free us from the oppression of the old ways and our sin. Which is why we were given a new way to live with love being the most important thing to have toward others.



I don't believe in forcing God and Christ onto people, if they ask questions I will answer and back my knowledge up with Scripture because then I'm not just using my words but God's too. I will tell people but the rest is up to them, Christ tells Christians to tell others about God, he didn't tell them to convert people to Christianity. That decision has to made by the individual and is between them and God only, unless they want to share.



There are so many things we cannot answer and with some of those I don't think we are supposed to know until we get to heaven, that's where faith comes in.



As far as creation, evolution and time lines go, I really don't know but here's what I think. God created our world and all that's in it. How long did that take? I'm not God so I can't answer that however 2 Peter 3:8 says "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

If you want to take that on face value you have 6000 years to create, 1000 to rest, however many years before Christ, Christ's life around 32 years and 2011 years since his death plus the years before the new calender. That would be around 9043 years plus those missing ones what ever they amount to. So no one can argue about time lines that science puts on but carbon dating is inaccurate too.



I do find it very interesting that the faiths of Muslims, Christians and Jews come from the same God and want to learn more about that.



With the translation of the Bible it has been kept to a minimum the Bible transcripts were Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. They were then translated to Latin and then from the Latin to other languages.



The Old Testament contains Tora ( the Five Books of Moses). The Old Testament contains 39 books written from approximately 1500 to 400 BC, and the New Testament contains 27 books written from approximately 40 to 90 AD. The Jewish Bible (Tanakh) is the same as the Christian Old Testament, except for its book arrangement. The original Old Testament was written mainly in Hebrew, with some Aramaic, while the original New Testament was written in common Greek.



I believe in God and that Christ is my saviour, I try my best to live my life using good conscience and love as shown to me by God through Scripture, prayer and worship. I do screw up sometimes.



Thanks for referring me to this thread Marina

Jenni - posted on 02/18/2011

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Veronica, I can't speak for everyone else... but I am geniunely trying to understand how one does arrive at the conclusion of God. IMO that's the only reason to debate religion, not to convert each other to the other side.

I must say I thoroughly enjoy your understanding of God and beliefs about him. So far for me, it's been the most 'logical' take on it for believers.

Nompumelelo - posted on 02/18/2011

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I believe in God and every time when I need strenght I just go to my bedroom next to my dressing table (my altar )and pray and he will answer my prayers....

Veronica - posted on 02/17/2011

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Wow - first - iris, thanks for clearing up my earlier garb -- i was simply observing similarities - obv. there are a ton of differences as well.

Anywho -- Im concluding that I believe. Science has its place -- but for me, so does God and his creation - and what I believe in, fills in the blanks. This will always be debated, probably forever. And honestly, I dont think fighting against each other is going to change anything. There will be those who dont believe, and those who do.
I believe my Lord is there and to me, that is what is important for me.

Isobel - posted on 02/17/2011

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I believe that the Universe has always existed...that nobody "created it"...I don't see how that makes any less sense than saying that Somebody who has always existed must have created it...

I just don't understand why THIS PARTICULAR book holds the end all and be all for this group of people...why do they think the rest of the world is so stupid and unworthy that God wouldn't bother to send his word there.

Tibetan monks who have LITERALLY never hurt a fly and live in sacrifice all the days of their lives are going to burn because Jesus didn't make it to their mountain top? How does that one make sense?

Jenni - posted on 02/17/2011

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Losing faith is like learning to swim by jumping into deep water. You're not sure if you're going to sink or float.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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And you can't argue with people like that...reason and logic are not their friends.

[deleted account]

Had that discussion once with a Christian friend. When talking other religions, Greek, Norse, Roman Gods, she said they'd been proved as false gods. "What proof" I asked, " you can't prove or disprove a belief". I asked if she had proof of her God, her answer "I don't need proof, I have faith".

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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No, i agree with you and you are right. I was just trying to be funny.

Jenni - posted on 02/17/2011

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I'm not getting what you're trying to say... Ancient civilizations existed 'within' that 6000 years.
I don't think there is a Christian out there that will say they didn't. Jesus was born 2000 years ago. It is documented in the old testament that these civilizations existed before Jesus came.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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Well, they don't think all ancient cultures existed (or aren't as old as we think), not if they interpret the bible literally and think that the world is only 6000 years old, contrary to evidence of course. I mean, something like 48% of Americans think that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. That just blows my mind. There's evidence that 10,000 years ago humans were farming and had structured societies...



But I was just being silly before...I agree with your original point. The virgin birth is one of the many stories that was around before the supposed birth of Christ. Other religions had used it as a story in their dogma.

Jenni - posted on 02/17/2011

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Ancient cultures did exist before Jesus, even Christian will agree to that. They were the ones converting them in the crusades. ;)

Rather, what was left of them. They talk about them in the bible as well.... The Egyptians, Romans, Greek.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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Ancient people and thier beliefs didn't exist. The world is only 6000 years old, Jennifer. :)

Jenni - posted on 02/17/2011

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I wanted to add something about an earlier post.
Heaven, hell, prophecy, daemon possession, sacrifice, initiation by baptism, communion with God through a holy meal, the Holy Spirit, monotheism, immortality of the soul, and many other "Christian" ideas all belonged to earlier, older Pagan faiths. They were simply part of ancient Mediterranean culture. Along with miracle working sons of God, born of a mortal woman, they were common elements of pre-Christian Pagan religion. Mithras had 'em. So did Dionysus, Attis, Osiris, and Orpheus. And more.

When Vespatian's spittle healed a blind man, we understand that as a myth.
When Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from death, we understand that as a myth.
When Dionysus turned water into wine, we understand that as a myth. When Dionysus believers are filled with atay, the Spirit of God, we understand that as a myth.
When Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin, we understand that as a myth.
When Alexander the Great is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.
When Augustus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal , we understand that as a myth. woman
When Dionysus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.
When Scipio Africanus (Scipio Africanus, for Christ's sake) is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.
So how come when Jesus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, turning water into wine, raising girls from the dead, and healing blind men with his spittle and setting it up so His believers got eternal life in Heaven contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, and off to Hades—er, I mean Hell—for the bad folks...
how come that's not a myth?
And how come, in a culture with all those Sons of God, where miracles were science, where Heaven and Hell and God and eternal life and salvation were in the temples, in the philosophies, in the books, were dancing and howling in street festivals, how come we imagine Jesus and the stories about him developed all on their own, all by themselves, without picking up any of their stuff from the culture they sprang from, the culture full of the same sort of stuff?
By looking at what ancient people wrote about ancient religion. What the ancient evidence will show you is that ancient western culture had conventional ideas about Gods and their powers and place in the universe. Christianity adopted those ideas.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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See, I don't think your representation of science is correct. Like you said, it's all about perspective. I don't look at my beliefs as faith-based. It's not faith when it's supported by tangible evidence. When the results of scientific lab work can be recreated again and again to the same result to support a hypothesis, that's not faith, it's evidence. To be honest, it seems that a lot of creationists have chosen to reject reasonable ideas and logical thinking to cling to their spiritual beliefs in the wake of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The purpose of science is to find evidence and present theories based on it. By turning yourself over to a religion you are able to just explain everything away with 'God did it'. Against such a point of view it becomes difficult to construct an argument. That's why I'm not trying to argue with you. You've obviously got your mind made up, we're at different ends of the spectrum and that's about it.

Krista - posted on 02/17/2011

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Of course no human knew of god until some 2000 years ago, we weren't HERE before then!



We weren't? So there were absolutely NO people here until Jesus? No ancient Romans? No ancient Greeks? No Egyptians?



What about Adam and Eve and all those folks? I mean, if the Earth is 6000 years old, and if Adam and Eve were created during that 7 days, then um yeah...



Even using your own Bible as evidence, humanity has been here for 5999 years, 11 months, and twenty-some days.



And I have to correct myself, because humanity DID know about your god before then -- but it was the Jewish god, not the Christian one. It was your pissed-off Old Testament god. I'd forgotten about him -- and obviously, so did you.



And that we are arrogant enough to believe that we have even a single piece of the puzzle figured out on our own.



And yet you believe that religion, which is a man-made construct, has EVERY single answer.



No, that's not arrogant at all.

Merry - posted on 02/17/2011

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Thanks Sara, I expected to hear that! Well I also saw an experiment that dated a mc donalds cheeseburger to be a few billion years old.
There's alot of circular reasoning in the dating sciences. Like they say this fossil has to be xMillion years old, therefore the rock it's in must be just as old, so now when they find the same rock anywhere else it's assumed to be that age, and anything fossilized in it is also that old.
I mean there's lots of unknowns and missing links in the dating processes and I've never found anything that sounded like fact.
There's alot of scientists who are christiians. And when you look at their data and evidence it all backs up the bible.
So really, to every question there's two sides. And you can usually find someone to proofs what you want to believe.
It's all faith, faith in evolution, faith in creation, faith in energy, faith in Jesus, faith in uncertainty.
We don't KNOW anything, but we choose to believe that which makes the most sense in our minds.
And there's evidence to support pretty much anything you want to believe.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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Well, I completely and utterly do not agree with you, so I guess we can just leave it at that! :)

Merry - posted on 02/17/2011

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Krista

Of course no human knew of god until some 2000 years ago, we weren't HERE before then!



Looking at it with a closed mind, sure it sounds laughable, but if you look at it from gods side it's equally laughable to think that some humans actually believe that we just existed out of nowhere, and that we are somehow the superior race on this earth. And that we are arrogant enough to believe that we have even a single piece of the puzzle figured out on our own.



It's all in how you look at it, science looks so wonderful when your loyalties already lie there, but when you look at it from a side of believing in God then some science looks quite immature and irrational at times.



Besides, god created science, in our minds :)

And we learned alot from the bible in the early days, god even follows the laws of science he set up now past the days of the old testament.



You can try to understand, but if not, it will never make sense. That goes both ways.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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Laura, I certainly appreciate your straightforward answers in this, and I do not wish to argue with you in what I'm about to say, I just want to put it out there if that makes sense. I understand you have your faith and that you interpret the bible literally, but does it not give you pause to look at scientific evidence that concludes that the world is, indeed, 4.5 BILLION years old? It's not conjecture, or a theory, it's supported by actual evidence in the fossil record and geology. Certainly, I'm not trying to change your mind. You have your beliefs and i can respect that. I just have a hard time understanding how someone could continue to believe the earth is so young when there's so much evidence to show that it actually is quite old...

Krista - posted on 02/17/2011

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I mean, people find it hard to accept that the Universe may have just been created from a single action like the big bang out of nowhere, but by that reasoning it should be equally hard to accept that a supernatural sky God just appeared one day and set all this into motion.

Excellent point, Sara. Religious folk are constantly picking holes in science because it hasn't found every single answer to everything.

But religion hasn't found any answers at all -- it's just made a bunch of stuff up and asked people to take that stuff on faith.

So why is it so laughable to think that the universe just, one day, WAS? And yet it's perfectly rational and sensible to believe that the Christian God always WAS (and yet not one frigging person knew about him until just about 2000 years ago...)

Merry - posted on 02/17/2011

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Yes I do, but my husband and sister as well as a bunch in our church do not.
I take the bible literally, it says 7 days I believe 7 24hour days. I'm what we call a 'new earth' believer.
Then there's my hubby, sister and others who are 'old earth' believers. They believe god used evolution to create the world and that the 7 days were figurative, and could mean 7 million years or something.
There is one versebthat says 'one day in the eyes of man is like one thousand year in the eyes of god' so that verse makes some think that god used evolution to create the earth.
I like the verse that says 'believe with the faith of a child' and to me that means take the words at their meaning and don't try to manipulate it around too much.

So I do think the earth is quite young, but it's very split in my church and it's something our pastor encourages us not to argue over. He says it's not important in the relm of heaven and hell and shouldn't be something to divide the church over.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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But the bible only accounts for the world being 6000 years old. So if you believe that God created the earth and all it contains, do you also believe that the earth is only 6000 years old?

Merry - posted on 02/17/2011

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We believe he always was and always will be.
Yeah, we can't actually comprehend that concept, but that's what Christians believe.
Just like we believe that we will also exist for eternity.
So I suppose some people could believe that energy always has been in existence, or the planets have always existed just like we believe god always existed. But the difference is I believe god is sentient, and omniscient, not just random gas etc.

Sara - posted on 02/17/2011

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"Idk if they did or not, but even if scientists did recreate the big bang, the question of who caused it still remains :) "



Ok, so here's the REALLY big question...who/what created God if He does indeed exist? I mean, people find it hard to accept that the Universe may have just been created from a single action like the big bang out of nowhere, but by that reasoning it should be equally hard to accept that a supernatural sky God just appeared one day and set all this into motion.

Charlie - posted on 02/16/2011

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Well I don't believe in "god" i believe in energy , I'm just saying it would make more sense if we ( as a people ) are going to give the higher power that is universal energy an identity or image it would make more sense that it be famale given that it gives birth to life .

Merry - posted on 02/16/2011

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I personally believe god is neutral gender. But since the early humans were so male controlled it made sense to depict god as male, so they would be able to understand following him.
But, I think god has no gender. Jesus was male, but that's about as far as we can know.
Then again, maybe god is male and the holy spirit is female since god described eve as Adams helper. And later described the holy spirit as the helper......

Charlie - posted on 02/16/2011

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depends on what they are made of some are made from gas and some are rock like our planet it is essentally energy pulling together a mass of dust particles or gas , the more it gathers the bigger the gravitational pull the newly formed planet has attracting more and more until rocks form , it can be quiet a violent event with many collisions , eventually millions of years later forming a planet ........I love science .



Therefore IMO energy is that which " gives birth "

and in that right if we are to assign a sex to that energy it makes sense that it is female .... the higher power or god should be a woman when people are manifesting the highest energy into a person or deity .

Isobel - posted on 02/16/2011

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since I believe the planets are alive in their own right...My guess would have to be "birth" still no conscious god for me ;)

Merry - posted on 02/16/2011

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Idk if they did or not, but even if scientists did recreate the big bang, the question of who caused it still remains :)

Isobel - posted on 02/16/2011

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I thought scientists had recreated the big bang...or was that just Angels and Demons?

Merry - posted on 02/16/2011

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Not for me it isn't enough, I feel a need to know, so I searched until I was satisfied.

Sara - posted on 02/16/2011

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But just because we can form something as a question in our language doesn't mean that it makes any sense or deserves any sort of answer. Why am I here? How did we get here? Pointless questions if you ask me. We're here. We exist. That's not good enough?

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