do you think breastfeeding after 1 is ok?

Patricia - posted on 03/30/2012 ( 423 moms have responded )

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i think its not ok.. i try to get my baby off the bottle around 1 so thats why i think it weird to breast feed after maybe 1

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Jodi - posted on 04/08/2012

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Siobhan, you do realise, right, that this is just your very ignorant opinioin and not actually fact? Because the World Health Organisation actually RECOMMENDS breastfeeding to AT LEAST the age of 2.



"i think how an earth can that child/children be getting the nutrients they need at the age of 2, 3, 4 "



Really? You don't give your kids cups of milk at those ages? It's essentially the same thing. Breastfed kids DO eat, you know, just like other children.

Johnny - posted on 04/05/2012

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Lisa, I suppose having actually used an SNS for several months, knowing how incredibly inconvenient and challenging it is, I have a hard time imagining that anyone would bother to do it long term. It was a stop-gap for supplementation in my case. But frankly, I see it as completely pie-in-the-sky to use it as your only feeding choice 24/7 for years. I know you believe in child-lead weaning/extended breastfeeding, and I just don't see that as an option for basically anyone past about 6 months. My daughter was already starting to reject the tubes when I stopped using it after the tubes tore for the umpteenth time.



It isn't that it bothers me that it would be your preference, because I actually share that preference for feeding at the breast. And I am certainly not opposed to donor milk, having used it as well. But I suppose I feel like since neither of you have actually tried doing things that way, that your ideology may not be all that well connected to actual reality.

Johnny - posted on 04/04/2012

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It is a bag that hangs around your neck and has tubes that lead to the nipples.



http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/pro...



And speaking from experience, it is not as easy as one would imagine to find donor breastmilk. I live in a city where there is a milk bank, but it is only for sick or preemie babies because of lack of supply. There are plenty of nursing mothers here, but finding enough moms who have enough milk to share and the time to pump is a huge challenge. The milk sharing communities are not all that great, and I was unable to find more than a temporary supply. And frankly, the cost of proper transport would have been prohibitive even if I had been able to find a solid supply.



Also, having used an SNS for several months, it was a GIANT pain in the ass. As a mom who went through all that with my first kid, I won't be doing it again if I can't nurse. I'll take some domperidone and nurse for hours. And if that doesn't work, screw all the bs about pumping all night, making myself sick with herbs sitting up all night searching the internet for donor milk while trying to get a baby to latch on to a freaking tube!! No thanks. I'll be more than happy to sterilize a bottle and fill it with formula. This time I am going to be a complete mother, not a crazed milk obsessed harpie.







And Laura, yet again, your naive commentary is rather offensive,



"If I couldn't breastfeed I'd use an SNS and pumped milk, or donated milk.

There are choices, just not common ones!



Doesn't mean I wouldn't feel bad, I would, but I'd make it work."






So you would feel bad because you couldn't breastfeed despite making all sorts of efforts to do so? Wow! That just blows me away. You know I'm very pro-breastfeeding, but there really are a shitload of more important things out there that make a mother a good mother.

Janice - posted on 04/04/2012

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Sorry Patricia, while bottle feeding is normal and perfectly acceptable it does not fit the definition of natural.



nat·u·ral adjective

1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge.

2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.

3. of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.

4. of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.

5. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/n...

Janice - posted on 04/14/2012

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Do you think if the baby could talk they would say "hey woman, give the boob, this formula is not doing it for me"? Yeah, I don't think so. They are content with a full belly.



I hate to be nit picky but my daughter did just that. Wouldn't touch bottles or formula and would rather just be hungry and wait for me than eat a bottle of formula.

Of course babies that were only formula fed would probably shun the boob.



I mean so many woman who are weirded out by extended breastfeeding say just put it in a cup but these kids don't want a full belly they want the boob. Just like bottle fed babies dont want a sippy sometimes they want their baba!



Just Saying ;)

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[deleted account]

****MOD NOTICE***

This thread was locked due to it straying ot and becoming offensive. I am re locking it if it is unlocked again it will be deleted!

Thank you
Toni
DM mod

[deleted account]

bloody hell meme...i thought you knew me better than that after us both copping it for being anti spanking on another thread a while back....but anyway,sorry...this is about breast feeding.

Sherri - posted on 05/22/2012

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Kellie spanking. Most moms will not agree with you, that any child should be spanked ever especially on this board.

[deleted account]

meme can you just clarify what exactly most mums on here don't agree with me about? little confused !!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/22/2012

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Kellie---Let's not turn this into a spanking thread. Seriously, we do not want to go there. Far more Mom's in this community do not agree with you. It also has absolutely nothing to do with breastfeeding.



Karla and Aleksandra, I thought this thread was locked too! Something happened, here.

[deleted account]

bobbie...My 14 month old breast feeds 3 times a day. She CAN get herself to sleep...she CAN calm down if she is upset(all without hanging off a boob)....I breast feed because it is healthy and i am trying to prevent eczema,asthma,allergies,ear infections etc (which btw she has so far had NONE of)

So it turns out my baby (and my 11 year old who was also breast fed) are totally normal....not f$#@ed up at all !!! Oh and they both have teeth...how about that !!!!!! my boobs have ZERO tooth marks...maybe thats just cause i have perfect awesome kids who were very respectful of my boobs and knew better than to bite them....lucky,cause if they had bit me,surely that would be deserving of a spanking....kids need discipline you know..lol

Michelle - posted on 05/21/2012

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after 1, i guess is okay for some people. some people even goes up to 3 years. me, no way. i had to get mine on the bottle at around 6 months because his teeth was coming in and wanting to use the boobs as a teething toy. that don't feel all too well. everyone is different, me, not after at least 6 months. But others, like i said may go longer than that. It all depends on the mom and the situation.

Gabrielle - posted on 05/17/2012

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My mom breast fed my younger brother until he was 18 months. I don't see anything wrong with that all tho I never breast fed past 6 months because of my children getting teeth. I do thing its wrong when it comes to a 4 year old like on the cover of that times magazine. That's jus BS

Karla - posted on 05/15/2012

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It's so good to know everyone here has all the answers.



This thread should be locked again.

Bobbie - posted on 05/14/2012

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Just saw all the hype about the different type of parenting coming into vogue. One of these new options is to allow the child the breast until they loose interest, like age 4 or even older. I have the following comments to give my stance on the subject.
- board of certified doctors state that mothers milk is beneficial until the age of 2
- breastfeeding is a natural healthy way for your child to gain vitamins and trace minerals
- the closeness of breastfeeding can give both mother and child both the calming effects
- by age 2 the child should be weened of all infant habits and move full time to a cup
- to allow children a bottle, breast or pacifier after the age of two is to interfere with the natural time line for emotional growth. At this age a child is struggling to learn how to calm himself and to sooth himself without aids
- lastly, a breastfeeding child need not always be given the breast at all times to enjoy the benefits. My daughter was taught to drink from a bottle and a cup. though breastfeed until age 2 she did not yank at my top in public, cry for the breast, or in other ways cause a social response. No one should be forced to embarrassment of exposed flesh of a woman's chest, belly or bare area that is unexpected, the suckling noises or witnessing one human being yanking at the clothes of another. These acts can't help but bring on negative responses and uncomfortable feelings to complete shock in others.

Cyndel - posted on 05/12/2012

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World Health Organization recommends at LEAST 2 years.
The world wide average is 4.5 years.
My son is a year old today, and we have NO plans to even slow down let alone wean any time soon, I'm hoping at least a good 2 1/2 years total before he self weans.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/16/2012

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Rebecca three---Objectively, because I haven't gone all the way back, I'm just going by Karla's post there, it seems it would be easy to put more weight on the two paragraphs she wrote saying why it was important to address other people's choices and then wrote one disclaimer sentence saying it wasn't important. It is a bit contradictory and I'm not sure why, if one would think on a national level it is important and then change your position on an individual level. I mean, in order to make change on a national level, you'd have to start with the individuals, wouldn't you? That is if it is very important to you and your family's future.

To be fair...you can't say it isn't a bit misleading.


EXACTLY!

Karla---Not understanding the point was that many mothers can benefit from information, support and acceptance to make or break their breastfeeding success. Instead it’s turned into a battle that it’s “no one’s business” when in fact some people here work with new mothers and part of that work is education and support, so it is in fact their business.

That’s all, it’ isn’t personal, it’s about being informed, supported and accepted no matter how things turn out. I do not accept that each mother should be on their own – most new moms need and want some guidance; it's not judgment, it's guidance.


This is very true. However, I fail to see where Laura was providing any information. Many of the things she has said are a biased approach. It is obvious she "only" supports breastfeeding. There have been several statements that have been perceived as such.

I strongly believe in educating a mother on her choices. NOT only on breastfeeding. Laura has said many times that she really doesn't know much about formula. So, again, what education and support are you speaking of? Just for the breastfeeding side of things? What about the mothers that just cannot do it? Don't they deserve help, support and education too for how and what to provide formula wise?

If you are going to help mothers make choices you must be able to have an unbiased approach. You must be able to provide in great detail the benefits of breastfeeding (as I know Laura can) but you must not PUSH it. You have to find an even ground and actually educate them not force feed it. Since in the end all a mother wants and needs is to be understood and supported for her choice. She doesn't need someone telling her that if she doesn't breastfeed she is contributing to the national failure but yet, what she does on an individual level, is up to her. Ummm what? That makes no sense.

You also cannot contradict your opinion. No one is going to listen or take you seriously if you can't state something without being wishy washy.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/16/2012

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******LOCKING THREAD******

This topic has run its course and the op has been answered many times over, and continuously strays from the op. This thread is being locked to further comments.

DM MoD ~Little Miss~

Minnie - posted on 04/16/2012

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Local breastfeeding support can be found here:



http://www.llli.org/webindex.html



LLL Leaders are available for phone and e-mail support. Local groups also meet monthly to provide breastfeeding support. You can contact a Leader to find when a local group meets.

Vicki - posted on 04/15/2012

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Ana-Rami the kellymom website is also good for info. I only know where to get real life support in Australia...



My boy went through a couple of biting phases when he was teething. I dealt with it by slipping my finger in his mouth to break the suction (sometimes more like jamming my finger in when it was suddenly painful!), saying no and stopping the feed. I'd go back to feeding him soonish but stopped if he bit again. He always got over it after a little while. After about his first birthday he never did it again. Every now and then as a toddler he'll gently bite (while grinning, trying to get a reaction) and he gets a firm no and no more boob for the time being. Learning breastfeeding manners is part of feeding an older kid I guess!

Karla - posted on 04/15/2012

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Ana Rami,

It isn't always easy, that's true. I guess that's true of parenting in general.
(This particular thread in in "Debating Mums!" so...) You may want to post you concerns in this linked community for support and information:
http://www.circleofmoms.com/breastfeedin...

Laura, do you know of any other places where she might find information and support? I'm kind of out of the loop these days.

Perhaps here:
http://forums.llli.org/index.php

Good luck.

User - posted on 04/15/2012

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I get mixed reactions to this.She's teething now and it's not funny getting bitten.I really want to wean her but how to go about it? She's been fully breastfed.I tried switching her to formula (goat's milk kind coz I read it's much easier to digest) but it was a failure.In my mind it's okay but in reality it's hard!

Karla - posted on 04/15/2012

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Rebecca,
I'm looking for some common ground here because this thread has gotten out of control about a topic that doesn't involve the OP.

This was said by Meme:
“So what if there are babies out there that could have been breastfed. Again, how and why is that anyone's business? How are they NOT benefiting from being fed? Just because it is not what YOU think they should be fed? That's crazy talk. “

Not understanding the point was that many mothers can benefit from information, support and acceptance to make or break their breastfeeding success. Instead it’s turned into a battle that it’s “no one’s business” when in fact some people here work with new mothers and part of that work is education and support, so it is in fact their business.

That’s all, it’ isn’t personal, it’s about being informed, supported and accepted no matter how things turn out. I do not accept that each mother should be on their own – most new moms need and want some guidance; it's not judgment, it's guidance.

To really be objective read the last 6 pages.
Personally I live a conservative life, but politically I am Liberal, it's the same concept and it's about not dictating my life and morals onto others. Again, in agreement with most, if not all, of the woman here in that I do not want to, nor will I, dictate my choices to other woman.

Mrs. - posted on 04/15/2012

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Objectively, because I haven't gone all the way back, I'm just going by Karla's post there, it seems it would be easy to put more weight on the two paragraphs she wrote saying why it was important to address other people's choices and then wrote one disclaimer sentence saying it wasn't important. It is a bit contradictory and I'm not sure why, if one would think on a national level it is important and then change your position on an individual level. I mean, in order to make change on a national level, you'd have to start with the individuals, wouldn't you? That is if it is very important to you and your family's future.

To be fair...you can't say it isn't a bit misleading.

Jodi - posted on 04/15/2012

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"AND this is the part of that post that Meme ignored."

Yes, despite the fact that I have had little time to comment on this thread and have only skimmed, I will say that this seems to be a common problem.

Karla - posted on 04/15/2012

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Please read to the end, thank you,
Here is my point,
This is the cut-n-pasted portion of a post that started the Meme protest:
Laura: “Shawnn, what you do with your baby matters to me for a few reasons, national health in general is negatively affected by formula,, national finances are negatively affected by formula, national acceptance of breastfeeding is negatively affected by over use of formul, the next generation is affected by feeding choices as its common for breastfeeding to 'run' in families and the same with formula.”

AND this is the part of that post that Meme ignored.

Laura: ‘"Now these are national things. Mom to mom, your decision makes very very little difference to me. There's plenty of babies out there whose lives are benefitted by formula but many are not benefitted by formula as its wide spread use tends to include babies whose moms could have nursed but for some reason, myths, embarrassment, no support, bad drs, work, etc so there are babies out there who could have been breastfed but because formula has sort of taken over the country they were not.
That matters. But you and your specific baby, not my bussiness, not my place to judge, not anyones place to judge."


That is why the whole post should be considered.

Meme "I feel everyone should be able to have their own beliefs and their own experiences without someone telling them they could have, so they should have."
and
Laura "But you and your specific baby, not my bussiness, not my place to judge, not anyones place to judge."

-These two opinions are in agreement.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/14/2012

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Aleksandra---Because every time someone stated a fact, regarding why they believe that breastfeeding is ideal and why it should be actively promoted you have said that:

its bullshit or "who gives a shit"
"stop dictating what and how a mother should feed her child".


Sorry but you are incorrect. I have had an arguement when someone said IT IS THE ONLY WAY. If you can breastfeed then you should! Who the hell are you to say that? Who are you to tell anyone that just because they have tits and milk comes out they should feed their child with them?

Glad you are done with your arguement because you have not heard what I am saying. I have heard you but I am done reading them. I only read as far as what I just quoted, from your last post.

Oh I just got a glipse of your last paragraph. No, I did not say a mother has had to have formula fed their baby. I said they need to show a little respect that some mothers have and it was their decision to for whatever reason, NOT yours. ;)

BTW- My beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with how I think another should be able to freely make their own choices. My beliefs are just that, mine. I feel everyone should be able to have their own beliefs and their own experiences without someone telling them they could have, so they should have. Seriously.

Aleks - posted on 04/14/2012

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MeMe



I have a question for you. How is it that you think one should be advocating or promoting breastfeeding?

By going around repeatedly chanting the phrase: "Breast is Best. Breast is Best...................Breast is......."



Because every time someone stated a fact, regarding why they believe that breastfeeding is ideal and why it should be actively promoted you have said that:



its bullshit or "who gives a shit"

"stop dictating what and how a mother should feed her child".



(que a big eye roll from me).

From all the posts I am gathering from you:



YOU have a poor comprehension of what you are reading.... or may be you fail to read the WHOLE post someone puts up.

YOU are only advocating breastfeeding because you say "I m a supporter of breastfeeding" and "I believe in promoting breastfeeding" and that is as far as it goes.... just because you say those phrases doesn't make them true, because by just say those two and "breast is best"



"This is correct. I have lived a lot Aleksandra. I have been through a lot in my life time and I have learnt a bunch. ;) I have an problem with people that are biased when others have explained to them over and over again, the reasons why someone may have made a different choice. So, now just because they have not experienced it, they don't know how to listen and grasp the concept? Wow. If you believe you have to experience something in order to believe it, you are very misinformed and have a twisted thought process. Since many people believe what they have been educated on, not just what they have experienced. "



MeMe the word "experienced" was meant in the context of "exposure" and not its literal meaning. I said: "But people will believe and be convinced what ever their passed and present experience allows them to." So if their passed experience has included being educated on a topic or even being exposed to that topic on numerous occassions (whether through watching something, hearing about it on the news or from people within ones social circle, etc) then these are the only things they will be readily available to believe and accept. If they have no prior exposure whether actual or through education or even watching it on tv, then their chances of acceptance of such things are going to be quite low. This is what it meant.... no I don't have a twisted thought process or a very misinformed. Quite to the contrary MeMe.. I am extremely observant of people... And have a pretty good understanding of peoples (general meaning here) thought processes..... ie, I have a good understanding how people arrive at their thoughts and beliefs that they have and generally the process just about everyone takes to do that.. hence my opening statement to you regarding your own issues about yourself and your projection of this onto others - which mind you, you have totally failed to understand. Oh well.......



"So, now just because they have not experienced it, they don't know how to listen and grasp the concept?"

Yes, for some people this will be true. Depnds on the situation and context being discussed.





As for the Environment analogy:

"As for the environmental example.. it was an analogy... best one I could find. And I do believe it is a good one. As both saving environment and breastfeeding is better for pretty much all of us



I disagree. I do not think it was a good one. I have an issue with those that froce saving the environment because most of them drive a vehicle or take a bus. They don't get off their fat ass and walk to where they have to go. They still waste a lot, from power to food. Sorry but not a good one to compare to breastfeeding. "



Acutally it is an excellent analogy.... because they are not perfect and they do use means that has an impact on the environment. NEWSFLASH a lot of breastfeeding mums have also used formula at one time or another...... (shaking her head in disbelief how you fail to even miss that.... but then again, one would have to have thought over and about the analogy for a minute, but I guess thinking things out is not a strong point in some), may be not frequently (sometime so)... may be only once or twice (emergency scenario)..... Hence my point.



To be honest... the only person I see judging anyone right now IS YOU and the only person I see right now to be dicating anything to anyone IS YOU. I have NEVER dicated to any mother how she should feed her child. I have beliefs and opinions and in right place and time I am happy to state them. They may be unpopular with some but I am entitled to these. I may understand and even empathise with some of the reasons why some women switch... but I don't have to agree with some of these either. And you seem to be dictating this to me and others,,, that I should agree, just because someone has a reason. NOPE... I don't.



Honestly, I don't think you are educated well in why a mother makes the choices she does in respect to breast versus formula. I think you are stuck in your own little cloud and think it is your place to judge others. I wish I knew what makes you so special that you can force your beliefs onto others. Meh. Maybe you should get over yourself, wake up and see there are many differences amongst people. They don't need to live by Aleksandra's standards! "



You know what. .. that is your opinion and more like a guess. Because YOU don't know what I know.. you are only guessing. And frankly, no one can really know (unless you work in the field, and since YOU DON"T so neither are you) why women choose formula over breast or just choose formula or just choose breast. You are also also stuck in your own little judgemental cloud because I have seen nothing but judgment spewing forth from you. And the only person that should get over themself is YOU. Becasue just like you said: "they don't need to live by your standards".

You don't know my standards... only what you know is what I CHOSE to write and use in my arguments. And you are judging me on that. You don't know what I have done or not done in my life and with my babies. You don't know what I have gone through and experienced... nor the people I know or deal with... or how I deal with them..... Yet you choose to project your own beliefs of who I am onto me (and same goes for others you have done to here).



I am done.... this is stupid and silly and is running around in circles. You are stuck on repeating the same phrase (ahem, rant).... no matter what anyone says or points they cover as you fail to see what they are trying to convey or you are seeing is that me or anyone else may be dictating how a mother should feed her baby. Oh ... wait a mintue, unless of course that mother has categorically stated (in this thread or another you have been a part of ) that she formula fed her baby.



I am over arguing with you on this.....

Merry - posted on 04/14/2012

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I know I never said that because I don't think that. So, don't make assumptions about me and call them facts. I've never said moms had to breastfeed if possible. I said many things but I'd never say that

Merry - posted on 04/14/2012

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My babies both refuse sippy cups of expressed milk lol.

Eric took a bottle of milk fine when he was small, but then refused as he got older.

Fierna has refused both bottles and cups of breastmilk. Though she will readily drink water out of a sippy.

Silly kids.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/14/2012

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Laura---

I will not apologize. I am on this wave because of many things you said. If you want quotes from your own words. Go back and read them. I posted some of them (not all) on page 19, that insinuate, exactly what I said and how it was perceived not only by me but others too. They also spoke up. Go back and read, if you need clarity. ;)

Janice - posted on 04/14/2012

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Meme I wasnt just talking about toddlers. My children both were mostly given boob and by 3 months absolutely refused bottles.

So MY children both did say "hey give me the boob"



Actually my daughter got a few bottles, some formula some expressed milk, while we figured out her latch issue and if she got hungry while I attended class 2x a week. During the holiday break though she only got boob. But when my college courses started again and my sister had her for 2.5 hours 2x a week she would just scream and refuse bottles. I actually couldn't wait to start cereal at 4 months so that she would have something to eat.



With my son he almost never got a bottle and by 3 months when my hubby tried one day he refused. Yet he was hungry and latched on the moment I got home.



So some babies may not care, but some do.

Merry - posted on 04/14/2012

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Meme I never said that. Quote me or apologies.

I deal with formula feeding moms all the time and I never say ever that they shouldn't be feeding bottles. I said most women CAN, but I never said all women have to. Ever

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/14/2012

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Janice--- I hate to be nit picky but my daughter did just that. Wouldn't touch bottles or formula and would rather just be hungry and wait for me than eat a bottle of formula.



I am talking a baby, not a toddler.... My son was only given the boob for the first 3 months (medical issues for stopping). He was quite content to move onto a bottle of formula. No issues, except for my own. ;)



Karla---

No, not all have. Laura did not. She still says that anyone that can breastfeed should, unless they have a medical reason not to. My point is, it is not her decision and it is not her right to make that judgment. What one persons reason is, does not mean it is up to someone else to depict whether it is a valid reason. Since to that person making the choice, it is a very valid reason.



I have said before, my good friend that has 4 children ranging from age 16 to age 3, never ever breastfed. It was her choice. Her choice wasn't because of medical reasons, it was because it was not for her and her babies. Should I carry that right to judge her? Absolutely not. Her children are very healthy, happy and intelligent. She did not hurt them. It was a choice she made for her situation. She was not wrong in doing that. No one can tell me or her she was.



It would be just like me saying that because I believe in breastfeeding but not past the age of 2, anyone that can wean their child at age 2, should. Which, we all know, anyone can wean their child at age 2, some just choose to allow their child to wean themselves. Which, is none of my business. It just isn't for me, doesn't mean I think anyone is weird for not choosing my methods. I definitely believe in breastfeeding for ME. I would also help anyone looking for help or support, in breastfeeding. However, I would never tell anyone, virtual or not, that just because they can, they should. Since I know there are reasons, even if they are ones I disagree with, that they choose to use formula or stop breastfeeding.



It is a lot like the abortion debate. I have said I am pro-life. However, from understanding others situations and listening to others experiences, I have switched my stance. I am still pro-life for me but I can see a need to be pro-choice for everyone else (up to the 12 week mark). I have realized it is NOT my right to place my beliefs on another, simply because I am not them and they may not see things the way I do. They may have a difference in how they mentally work through things. Therefore, I must realize that it is not my right to dictate that just because they could carry the baby, that they should.



There is nothing wrong with having a belief. Just remember that taking the belief too far will come across as judgment and it will raise others back hair (so to speak). They will feel judged, regardless. It is one thing to have a belief that you would follow, it is another to expect everyone else that "could" have that same belief to actually pursue it and follow.

Karla - posted on 04/14/2012

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Meme "Karla, yes, there are some here that have blantenly said breastmilk is the only way, unless you have medical problems. It is them I am directing my statements at. There are 2 to 3 of them."



Find me a direct quote that says that. I think you are reading into things, or taking statements out of context.

ETA

All those that you accused of saying that have clarified their statements so that you would understand they do not in fact judge those that bottlefeed.All who said "it's the only way" clarified that they meant for themselves



And again, still off topic.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/14/2012

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Read back Karla... It transpired into this, from others stipulating that breast is best and everyone that can should. I didn't pull it out of my ass.

I have said if a mother choses to extend breastfeed over "my belief" of 2 years, more power to her. I would never judge her for doing so. Somehow, some people think it is their right to dictate that if a mother can they should. I think some require jumping off their pedestal and realizing what they are saying and how they are judging others, that are simply trying to feed their baby, the way they choose to. Not everyone can breastfeed or believes in doing it, until their child is age1 and beyond. However, there are some that stopped at 6 months because they chose to, they switched to formula, this is where the whole breastmilk is best and why would you do that? crap came in.

Karla, yes, there are some here that have blantenly said breastmilk is the only way, unless you have medical problems. It is them I am directing my statements at. There are 2 to 3 of them.

I find it difficult to swallow, since they do not want to be judged for choosing to breastfeed until their child is 3,4,5,6 years old but they want to judge a mother that has either stopped early (11 months) or never breastfed to begin with. Many moms understand the benefits of breastmilk but yet, they still choose formula. There is simply nothing wrong with that. It is nobody's place to explain to them that they are wrong or failing their child. Everyone has a different lifestyle, just because they could do something that another believes in, does not mean it is right for them.

Look at the purity thread. Some strongly believe every woman should wait until married. I think that is crazy. I think everyone should have there choice, if they want to great, if they don't great. This is no different. It is nobody's choice but the person doing it. It is not affecting anyone else. The baby is being fed, the baby is not starving. Do you think if the baby could talk they would say "hey woman, give the boob, this formula is not doing it for me"? Yeah, I don't think so. They are content with a full belly.

Karla - posted on 04/14/2012

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Aleksandra, "When it comes down to it I don't care if someone uses formula. I will not hate them.....But I am not naive to know that sometimes even if she physically can, there are circumstances in people's lives that sometimes makes things so difficult where it would become detrimental to do so for a the long (or even just the short) term.



Meme "Again, it is not your right to dictate what and how a mother feeds her baby. It just is not."



Just not seeing where this argument is coming from. Everyone who supports breastfeeding here has stated they do not condemn anyone for bottle feeding. Not many here are dictating how and with what a mother feeds her baby, but the ones that do dictate are about the OP and at what age bf should stop. Maybe we should talk about that.



Honestly, the only absolutes that I have read here are like Mommalove who said “i think its not okay too, i mean if the baby is walking than no. Its weird to me but just my opinion.” At least she said “just my opinion,” others have not.



When the WHO recommends bf for at least 2 years, and we have so many mother’s who don’t agree, then more information about bfing needs to be shared. It’s not a fight, it’s just information.

Karla - posted on 04/14/2012

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Meme "You and Laura are why so many formula feeding Moms are fucking defensive. Understand that?"

Wrong thread.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/14/2012

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Aleksandra---



Yes, I did have an issue with having to go from breastfeeding to formula but sorry to burst your bubble. I no longer do. I had concerns for about a month or so. My views most definitely are NOT about myself.



How am I talking about myself when I have said and deeply explained where my issue is?



When it comes down to it I don't care if someone uses formula. I will not hate them. And I am sure *most* other mothers feel the same way.... Just because I, or others, may hold the belief that if a mother CAN breast feed that she should... for the benefit of herself, her child and possibly her grandchild too



I have said it is one thing to advocate, it is a competely other to make someone feel bad about it. Now, I have never said you do this. You took it uopn yourself to react, therefore you must put yourself in that category of "expectations" that all mothers, that can breastfeed should. If they choose not to, just because, you obviously have an issue with that. Well, sorry but I have an issue with you thinking that and voicing it. It is not your choice what others do and it never will be. Who are you to say it is in her best benefit? Maybe it isn't. Maybe because she just can't get it into her mind that it is best for her and child (no other reason). Why do you all of a sudden get to dictate what another does with their child? I highly doubt you are some higher being that people should look up to.



There are choices for a reason and it makes no difference what way a mother goes, from the get go. If she decides to formula feed from the beginning, that is her choice. Never is it your place to judge her. If you want to judge, be very careful Aleksandra, your time of judgment just may be coming.



(and don't go off at this as I am reading more and more about how our genes are affected and changed even in our own lifetimes, starting in utero, by what we eat, drink and absorb into our body from the environment we live in, and how that then gets passed on to our children and how it affects their genes too).



Sorry but this means absolutely nothing. Some mothers eat very poorly. Now, you are saying she should breastfeed because it is best? Then you go on to say what you have been researching? LOL I have researched this shit too. It has no bearing on whether a mother uses formula or breastmilk. There are mothers that smoke, do drugs, drink alcohol. What about them? They could breastfeed. So, now because of your belief, they should be, right? How naive is that? I'd have to go with very.



But people will believe and be convinced what ever their passed and present experience allows them to.



This is correct. I have lived a lot Aleksandra. I have been through a lot in my life time and I have learnt a bunch. ;) I have an problem with people that are biased when others have explained to them over and over again, the reasons why someone may have made a different choice. So, now just because they have not experienced it, they don't know how to listen and grasp the concept? Wow. If you believe you have to experience something in order to believe it, you are very misinformed and have a twisted thought process. Since many people believe what they have been educated on, not just what they have experienced.



You believe that drinking milk is great. I don't. I think you are naive and lacking in information regarding it... and you may think that I am crazy silly or whatever because I believe what I do.



Yes Aleksandra, I do think cow milk is great. So does my pediatrician and all the other articles I have read. It may not be required but in a whole, yes, it does the body good. However, I could'mt give two shits if you believe it or not. If we are in a milk debate, yes I will debate my side by providing info that states it is "good" but I would never say you HAD to drink it because that is my belief. I would never say if you can drink it then you should. I would never say that you are neglecting your child for not giving it to them. So, again, it is a choice. I just don't shove my choice down anyones throat.



As for the environmental example.. it was an analogy... best one I could find. And I do believe it is a good one. As both saving environment and breastfeeding is better for pretty much all of us



I disagree. I do not think it was a good one. I have an issue with those that froce saving the environment because most of them drive a vehicle or take a bus. They don't get off their fat ass and walk to where they have to go. They still waste a lot, from power to food. Sorry but not a good one to compare to breastfeeding.



Again, it is not your right to dictate what and how a mother feeds her baby. It just is not. There is nothing wrong with advocating/promoting breastfeeding. I do that. I completely believe in breastfeeding but I also understand formula. There is a reason they are both available. Some mothers are just not as self riteuous as others and are able to get that not everyone is like them, not everyone lives as they do (thankfully), not everyone is as educated (this goes for both sides of any belief).



Honestly, I don't think you are educated well in why a mother makes the choices she does in respect to breast versus formula. I think you are stuck in your own little cloud and think it is your place to judge others. I wish I knew what makes you so special that you can force your beliefs onto others. Meh. Maybe you should get over yourself, wake up and see there are many differences amongst people. They don't need to live by Aleksandra's standards!



BTW- You and Laura are why so many formula feeding Moms are fucking defensive. Understand that?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/14/2012

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****MoD Warning****

Enough with the in thread back and forth. Lets get back on track with the op, or this thread has run its course.

DM MoD Little Miss

Aleks - posted on 04/14/2012

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You know what MeMe?



I have a feeling that you are describing yourself... YOU are the one that had expectations and then YOU are the one that had to deal with YOUR OWN criticisms (which you are now chastising everyone else who may have them or you suspect they may) when things didn't go TO YOUR PLAN or EXPECTATION. I think this is your main issue and that is why I am starting to believe you have or take such issue with others who YOU PERCEIVE to be the same.



I HAD NO EXPECTATION. I had intentions, and was pretty well aware that things may not go necessarily one way or another.... I am not that naive. I know that many are... and you know what?... LIVE AND LEARN .. is what I say to them.... and just LET IT GO.



When it comes down to it I don't care if someone uses formula. I will not hate them. And I am sure *most* other mothers feel the same way.... Just because I, or others, may hold the belief that if a mother CAN breast feed that she should... for the benefit of herself, her child and possibly her grandchild too (and don't go off at this as I am reading more and more about how our genes are affected and changed even in our own lifetimes, starting in utero, by what we eat, drink and absorb into our body from the environment we live in, and how that then gets passed on to our children and how it affects their genes too).

But I am not naive to know that sometimes even if she physically can, there are circumstances in people's lives that sometimes makes things so difficult where it would become detrimental to do so for a the long (or even just the short) term. SHIT HAPPENS as they say.



But people will believe and be convinced what ever their passed and present experience allows them to.

You believe that drinking milk is great. I don't. I think you are naive and lacking in information regarding it... and you may think that I am crazy silly or whatever because I believe what I do.

See....... you will not convince me of your standpoint, until I see the results for myself or circumstances for myself. Same goes for your beliefs. But ranting about things over and over will not help.



As for the environmental example.. it was an analogy... best one I could find. And I do believe it is a good one. As both saving environment and breastfeeding is better for pretty much all of us (unless the baby has that ever rare allergy).

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/14/2012

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Aleksandra---There are people who are up in arms over the environment and go on and preach and present information constantly about how we should be doing things to save the planet (and all the creatures living on it) and stop doing things that are detrimental.

Sorry but your example is much different. It has absolutely nothing to do on a personal level for how a mother is made to feel, for how she feeds the most important thing in her life. Although, I also have an issue when people push about the environment. I do my part but, I do not feel bad if I don't do as much as someone else. The environment is being screwed by a hell of a lot more than anything I can do.

I have an issue with anyone stipulating that a mother could have or should have done better or tried harder. That their reasons are not legit enough for someone other than them. These are very difficult decisions for a mom to make to begin with, then to have someone go on and on and on of why they were wrong or insensitive to the health of their baby, yeah, it pisses me off.

There shouldn't even be a debate about how a woman/man feeds their child and for how long. It is a personal choice for very personal reasons. Just because one person thinks they are awesome and will never ever need to use formula, doesn't mean they never will. So, perhaps they need to look at the big picture and leave those mothers that have had to make that difficult choice, to that mother, only.

Nothing wrong with advocating something but don't be so naive to think you will never be in that very position of having to make a different choice. So, have some friggen respect and understand that your belief and/or choice may not have any bearing on anothers situation. Rather it just frustrates and creates judgment, which is not a sensitive way to protray yourself to another mother just trying to do "her" best. Really, it is all about "getting over yourself" and realizing nothing ever goes as perfectly planned. It would be a shame to criticise one side of things, just to find your own self there at some point. Wouldn't it, now?

Mommalove - posted on 04/13/2012

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i think its not okay too, i mean if the baby is walking than no. Its weird to me but just my opinion.

Merry - posted on 04/13/2012

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Meme

Maybe you would be better able to understand me if I explained a bit more about my job with these women. First I ask questions, I get them to talk and explain their whole situation, and in that I probe to get out of them what they want to do. This is key! If they want to wean then I follow a different path then if they want to continue breastfeeding. Sometimes they are undecided so I give both options.

If they wish to wean their 1week old baby my advise comes off something like this.

""you have done such a great job so far! Baby has received your colostrum, and this protects him a lot already! You should be very proud of yourself, many moms don't even manage this far! So for weaning to formula the best way for your baby is to do it slowly and over a period of time. Replace one breastfeed with a bottle and wait a bit to see how he handles it.if all goes well then replace another feed with a bottle and wait a bit more. Go slowly so you aren't engorged and if you feel engorged use ice packs or cabbage leaves to help relieve the pain. (insert warning about clogs and mastitis here) do you have any questions? If not then please feel free to call me if you have any further wuestions or if you decide to continue breastfeeding otherwise I hope you have a great day today and enjoy that sweet baby of yours!""



Ok meme I have a lot of training in how to speak to pregnant and new moms. They're emotional creatures lol and very sensitive. I have never heard a mom sound hurt or upset at me over the phone so I feel I've done well so far. There's never any negativity over the ohone. This is my JOB and the moms are myclients. I treat them with respect and understanding.



THIS HERE is a debate. And I can speak my MIND openly and freely here. I still never want to judge or be rude or mean as these are real women and I don't want to make anyone feel badly but I'm more me on here. And less bf counselor.

Aleks - posted on 04/13/2012

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Yes, I have one more thing to add to this perception issue. Having a professional background in facilitating training sessions, I have seen how people's previous experiences (or the lack of sometimes) colour their perceptions of things presented to them. Some find some things said, or even the tone of voice used, let alone specific words used (or even the whole persona of the facilitator) down right irritating, annoying, offensive or rude, yet in the same training session others may see the same day, presenter and topic as being informative, enjoyable and fun.



Anything can be misconstrued, taken out of context or to the extremes and basically nit-picked. If one tries hard enough.

I find this happens in the extreme here in COM. And at times it is quite frustrating.... though at times I am happy to get caught up in it just because I LOVE A GOOD AND INVOLVED DEBATE :-D

Aleks - posted on 04/12/2012

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@Jodi

"Perception is in the eye of the beholder. WE are just as responsible for how we perceive things as for how we put them out there. My point was that, perhaps in the stress of the situation, there was no way anyone oculd have said anything that WOULDN'T have been perceived as judgemental. That is the case so often. Not exclusively, but I see it a lot. If I so much as mention that we breastfeed...I am automatically anti-formula and think that anyone who does use it is a horrible mother. "



EXACTLY



Could not have said it better myself. Thank you.

Karla - posted on 04/12/2012

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Aleksandra - I sent you a Private Message on how to fix that if you want to. ;-) Let me know if you need more help.

Aleks - posted on 04/12/2012

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Ok.. all my fonts have gone whacky in the above two posts. SORRY.. I was trying to do this whole changing font thing and I guess I must have gone awry somewhere.... I shall keep practicing so please be patient with me...lol



:-)

Aleks - posted on 04/12/2012

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@MeMe

"I am just tired of hearing/reading people speak as if they are so perfect because they breastfeed. Those that choose not to are ruining the economy. WTF? I have heard it all now."



I think you are reading into things way too much and taking things personally way too much. To be honest, why do you care or get upset so much over the fact that others care...???? There are people who are up in arms over the environment and go on and preach and present information constantly about how we should be doing things to save the planet (and all the creatures living on it) and stop doing things that are detrimental. Yet I don't see people having a bitch session about that and getting all pissed off about them constantly giving us a guilt trip. Why is that ???? (or is it cause I am not looking? perhaps, though I hardly see articles in the media having a hissy fit over the guilt trips... so may be that is saying something???)

I see things in a very similar way regarding breastfeeding promotion. There are people who truely believe in some things from an idealistic point of view (sure some do get degoratory, unfortunatelly) and pointing out FACTS about things is one way of getting a message across. We do not get to an enlightened place by ignoring facts. Sometimes and for some people those facts are not nice to hear.... but that doesn't mean they don't exist.



"Many of you do not like to be judged for extended breastfeeding. Yet, you have no problem with judging those that stopped early or didn't breastfeed at all. Talk about hypocrisy. Just do what you feel is best and leave everyone else out of it. It is great to tell your story. It helps others to gain insight and maybe learn something they never thought of. It is not great to say judgmental and inaccurate things. This is why so many people are so defensive about how they feed their child. Too many people think it is their right to speak up and dictate what is best for a mother and child. "



Actually MeMe, I only breastfed my 1st born son till 15mths. Why? Because everywhere I read it stated that one should breast feed till 12mths of age. (Actually what really was stated was at least, but my brain and everbody else's I spoke with only registered the 12mths bit... funny that, don't you think???) And from about 12mths onwards I did start to actively wean him. I did my recommended 12mths now, and so my job in that respect was over. So I believed at the time. This is because there is no accurate and comprehensive information out there regarding breastfeeding. We managed to get people to understand and "know" to feed *IDEALLY* to 12 months. Great. But that is infact NOT A CORRECT picture. And this can be seen by some of the opinions of many mothers (I was once one of them too) as can also be seen here in this thread and generally on COM, not to mention out in the "real world"



I was actually FORCED BY CIRCUMSTANCES to practice extended breastfeeding. Just like you were forced by circumstances to stop early with your son. I was quite happy to start weaning my daughter around the same age as my son, to be honest. So things can turn both ways. But you don't see me ranting at people about it. I state something once... as an eye opener or an FYI, really. And let it go.



As for dictating: And so far, I have seen only a few people, at least in this thread of posts, dictating on "what is best for a mother and child" and they have cut in both directions, not just regarding formula use but also where one should draw the line and start weaning.

See, I could have nursed my son longer. But I didn't. One of the reasons was because I was not aware. Am I pissed off about it? Sometimes. Am I defensive about it. Shit NO! I did my best with what I knew then. I know better now, so I DO BETTER NOW. And I think this is what many here wish to carry accross. NOT PREACH BUT TEACH. But somehow, for some reason there are others here that will jump on everything being said regarding promotion of breastfeeding as being an attack on them and their present or past actions. IT IS NOT. At least not the way I read the posts (true some may be, and there is a clear distinction). Its like they read part of the thread, get pissed and fail to read properly the other half which would have made things more clearer, and start ranting about the one word or one sentence - ie, take things out of context of what the original poster actually ment. I have seen many mothers outright stating: "where it is possible" or "for those that can" when promoting breastfeeding.

It is sooooooo frustrating seeing this over and over again. I wish I could just say to ALL OF US, if you read something and it raises your blood pressure immediatelly... STEP AWAY..... for a few hours. DO NOT START TYPING. Come back in a few hours or the next day and re-read the post again... may be then you will see things in a different light or read the whole post and context of the post.



As for the posts on the figures and stats quoting the costs to the economy I included. Well they were a response to you saying that it is all hogwash and bullshit and demonising Laura where does this say, etc. I just wished to show you that there are economic estimates of this. And I believe I have showed you more than one article and calcualtions for more than just one year. It was my rebutal to your rebutal to Laura.



I won't even go into knocking down your rebutal of the figures I posted.... too long.. and I am too tired.... right now...

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