do you think breastfeeding after 1 is ok?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/06/2012

I BF my son until he was 7 months. I started back to work when he was 2 months, and pumped. He also got formula. He and I were both ready to ween when he was 7 months. When he was 12 months and could get whole milk, he hated it. Had to keep him on formula.



My daughter, I solely BF until she was 15 months. She would drink milk from a sippy cup but would NEVER take a bottle. Each kids is different. Some need/want it for longer, and some are ready to ween early.

Laura Zoey - posted on 04/06/2012

Barb you feel like breastfeeding a talking three year old is strange because you've never done it.

I feel like weaning a 8 month old is strange because I've never done it.

It goes both ways and neither of us is wrong just because the other one finds it strange.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/06/2012

Janice, that is the whole point. not judging a mother if she decides to BF or FF, or if she BF and decides to switch. Why does it matter?

Barb - posted on 04/06/2012

I didn't breast feed my child till 10 or 11 months. I said I have only known people have done it that long not that I have. I couldn't do it for as long as I wanted medical problems and other reasons. I had to go to fromula only after bumping for over a week with mastitist (that's not how spell it I have no idea how to spell it and was on medication for it and couldn't have my daughter on breast while using it so I had to pump when I started pumping blood that was the end of me breast feeding at the time. I didn't switch just because. She was also on homo milk and a bit of formula when she was 10 to 12 months old.

Janice - posted on 04/06/2012

Barb - if you are breastfeeding why would you switch to formula at 10 or 11 months? Why not just wait until 12 months and just do milk in a cup. I totally get why some women choose to wean off the breast or bottle at 1 year. And I get that some women only breastfeed for a short time due to various issues that arise. I dont get why you would stop giving your infant the perfect food that is free for the second best food that costs a fortune, just because!

Barb - posted on 04/06/2012

Laura ♥♥♥ breast feeding till the kid can talk seems perfect setences strange.I am sure it is good to breast feed till 2 I don't know anyone who has ever done it passed 10 months or 11 at most that's why it seems strange.Some people can't breast feed what are you suppose to do not feed you child? No you feed them the next best way. There are a lot of reasons people have to bottle feed. I plan on doing both after my next baby comes, doing only breast feeding at first then eventually bottles are use to it. There isn't anything wrong with it all. I have done both and as long baby is drinking it's a good thing!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/06/2012

My best friend has 4 children. She has never breastfed and had no desire to. She didn't feel bad at all. She was just one, that had no interest in breastfeeding her babies. They are all healthy and they are very very intelligent. Must be good genes? ;)



They are ages, 16, 13, 5 and 3.

Mary - posted on 04/06/2012

Karla, I guess what it most depends on is the context of the conversation itself. If a mother expresses remorse about her inability to nurse, saying "It's okay, you tried hard enough" is probably appropriate. However, if she hasn't expressed any hint that she feels badly about it, saying something like that does imply that she should.



I know that there are many women (like Meme) who do feel guilt, sadness, or disappointment when breastfeeding doesn't work for them. However, I also know that there are plenty of women who truly don't feel that way. Not every women who tries to nurse really does "want" to. Both professionally and personally, I have encountered tons of women who only even tried breastfeeding because it was something they felt obligated to do. They really didn't want to, but felt pressured to try it because it was "right" or "best". When it didn't work out, they weren't in the least bit disturbed by it; if anything, they were relieved.



Other women are sort of ambivalent about it. They do it, but aren't overly emotionally invested in it. My sister is one of those women. She tried it, because she really did believe that it was "best" for her kids. However, her attempts were complicated by her build (she's 5 ft tall with massive boobs), and by the fact that she was severely pre-eclamptic with both babies. Both of her deliveries were sections, and she was on magnesium sulfate for 48hrs post-op with both. Despite a valiant effort on her part, and that of multiple LC's, they never got either kid to latch. Now, she did pump for each of them over a year (and, like me, she was a freaking cow graced with an abundant supply). She did it because it worked for her, and wasn't ridiculously challenging - but I guarantee you that she wouldn't have felt in the least bit guilty or distressed had she not. I also know that she would have resented any implication or assumption that she should feel "badly" had she been unable to pump.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/06/2012

I felt tremendous guilt and sadness. I felt guilt because I felt, that maybe there was just one thing I didn't try and that I was letting my baby down. I was worried I was going to hurt my boy and guilty that I was giving him something "bad".



Again, I was not educated on formula or bottles. It didn't take me long to get on the up and up, though. As soon as I knew I had no choice, I researched it for weeks. I probably read every single article out there on formula feeding. I made sure to buy bottles that other's claimed (doctors and mother's) and manufacturers claimed, to be the closest to breasts. They were the good old Playtex, with liner, and silicone nipples. Which, actually helped, since there was no sterilizing the bottle, just soap and water for the nipples. I also made sure to buy a higher quality formula, one that the Hospital here uses and my doctor recommended. Similac.



All I can say is thank goodness for the internet. ;) The guilt and feeling of failure was there, in great form but, quickly diminished as I learnt more and experienced my son thriving and being happy.

Karla - posted on 04/06/2012

”Even the innocuous comments I hear like, "it's okay, you tried hard enough" imply that there should be a certain amount of guilt over it, although you are allowed to feel less guilt based inversely on how much effort you put in to try.



Even though I understand your opinion on this Johnny, for me when someone says “it’s okay, you tried hard enough” I interpret that as empathy, and the implication is not that mom feels guilt, but rather sorrow. If an person tried, then they obviously wanted to do it – it didn’t work out so the reassurance of “you tried hard enough” would be to reassure the person that they did all they could; not to indicate a measure of guilt, but rather as encouragement that it’s okay to release those goals and move on. At least that’s how I see it. I would use the same statement for an athlete – it’s okay, you tried hard.



I would not think a mom would feel guilty at all, but I would think a mom might feel sad that things didn’t work out; I’ve actually seen it with many women. That’s not to say all women feel that way, or that it’s common, but it isn’t uncommon either.

Patricia - posted on 04/05/2012

Damn.... So if there was no donated milk ot didnt have money for that and couldnt produce milk in boobs --Whats next...? JK JK You dont have to answer that... No but really ladies I have nothing against bf, I always do wonder hw it would of felt.. But some moms we just cant, if that makes us different oh well, our kids were fed and thats all that matters.. I just want to know what was up with those weird shaped nipples kinda like curved.. They were hard to find and my neice only used those... Thank god I bottle fed my neice because my sister had a bad drug problem and I dont think that would of been good... Oh ya by the way my neice's name is PATRICIA too and calls me mom....

Jodi - posted on 04/05/2012

"A little bit they can climb up on lap and lift up your shirt and say feed me I think that's strange."



So do I, because that would mean I wasn't teaching them any manners. Perhaps breastfeeding mothers just need to make sure they teach their kids manners if that is what you are seeing. Like maybe climbing onto their lap and asking nicely? Is that where you are going with that?

Barb - posted on 04/05/2012

I didn't breast feed my daughter the whole year and she was off her bottle by her first birthday. I don't depends on how old are 1 you mean. A little bit they can climb up on lap and lift up your shirt and say feed me I think that's strange.

Jodi - posted on 04/05/2012

"But it would be really surprising if I couldn't breastfeed anyways, don't know what situation I'd have that I wouldn't be able to breastfeed"



I know someone who used to think that and was an absolute breastfeeding nazi, to the point where she would put other women down and make them feel bad for not being able to breastfeed. She was devastated when suddenly it happened to her........ It happens Laura. Never say never. And don't take the ability to breastfeed for granted, consider it a blessing. Shit happens.

Laura Zoey - posted on 04/05/2012

Johnny your right, I've never used an SNS or donor milk and I have NO idea how it would go. But it would be really surprising if I couldn't breastfeed anyways, don't know what situation I'd have that I wouldn't be able to breastfeed but if itoccured I'd plan on using donor milk and an SNS.

No I'd never choose to use formula and a bottle.

But if situation needed it I would use a bottle and formula if I had to.

There's a difference between choosing something and having to use it after trying everything else.

This is all so hypothetical I can't go into too much detail about what I'd do or not do! I am a milk making machine and I'm pretty sure I'd have to have quads before I'd need to supplement.

But my point was just that there are options besides bottles of formula and that I'd try other things before going to that option

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/05/2012

I for one do not think it is outlandish at all, to go to an extreme extent to continue to provide breast milk for your baby. I do, however, feel it is naive to say you would never use a bottle. ;) You have no idea what you may be forced to do, when you are in that moment.

Johnny - posted on 04/05/2012

Lisa, I suppose having actually used an SNS for several months, knowing how incredibly inconvenient and challenging it is, I have a hard time imagining that anyone would bother to do it long term. It was a stop-gap for supplementation in my case. But frankly, I see it as completely pie-in-the-sky to use it as your only feeding choice 24/7 for years. I know you believe in child-lead weaning/extended breastfeeding, and I just don't see that as an option for basically anyone past about 6 months. My daughter was already starting to reject the tubes when I stopped using it after the tubes tore for the umpteenth time.



It isn't that it bothers me that it would be your preference, because I actually share that preference for feeding at the breast. And I am certainly not opposed to donor milk, having used it as well. But I suppose I feel like since neither of you have actually tried doing things that way, that your ideology may not be all that well connected to actual reality.

Teresa - posted on 04/05/2012

Come on 'Rosie'... don't piss me off.... I LIKE you. ;) ♥

Minnie - posted on 04/05/2012

No one at all should take issue with Laura's or my preference to use informal donated milk and an SNS. Why do any of you care at all? This goes waaaay back to what Patricia said that bottles are the only other option. Laura said, no they're not, an SNS and donated milk is an option too. And she's absolutely correct.



It has nothing at all to do with anyone else's choice to bottle feed with formula or donated milk. It's not naive or pretentious, outlandish, idiotic, or whatever any of you may feel it is, based on our ages, or our perspective on life, whatever. It doesn't matter if any of you think it a crazy idea. You are all perfectly welcome to use a bottle, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just like I am welcome to choose to use a SNS in my hypothetical situation.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/05/2012

"It's not wrong to feel this way, but it is wrong to try to make a mom feel this way. "



You are absolutely right. We make our selves feel bad enough.

Rosie - posted on 04/05/2012

fist of all i'd like to know where a lot of you are going to come up with the money to get donated breast milk. it's ungodly expensive.

i used to think breastfeeding over a year was gross, but i've come around to the idea of two years. i still don't think it's "necessary" but i really don't give a shit what people do to their kids as long as they aren't hurting them. after age two it's gets a little weird to me...3 is my absolute cutoff before i dont' think it's appropriate anymore. and by appropriate i mean they can and should find other ways to comfort themselves cause it sure isn't for nutrients.

Laura Zoey - posted on 04/05/2012

As I said two posts before yours marina,

"I do NOT think women should feel bad for not breastfeeding, even if they didn't try one latch they shouldn't feel ad. "

And by ad I mean bad.

No never. No one SHOULD feel bad for anything they did in this type of things, I shouldn't feel bad for circumcising Eric, I shouldn't feel bad for force feeding him cereal, but I DO

And it's normal to feel bad.

Ideally moms should be fine with their past choices and regret nothing! But often we do have regrets or even just things we wish could have been different.

It's not wrong to feel this way, but it is wrong to try to make a mom feel this way.

Laura Zoey - posted on 04/05/2012

And I know Johnny deserves a medal for her determined work to breastfeed and I've never ever knocked her for using formula. That's WHY we invented formula cuz some babies really need it! I have nothing negative to say or even think in my own private mind about how Johnny fed her baby.



But it's really narrow minded to assume that moms who haven't used formula must have had an easy time. I don't like to talk about how hard breastfeeding was because I feel like theres enough horror stories out there telling pregnant women that breastfeeding is hard and painful and exhausting.



It was NOT easy either time and it was NOT fun for weeks in the beginning and it was NOT smooth sailing after the first few weeks either.

I've had mastitis 5 times. I've had blisters on my nipples, I've had to use a nipple shield because of flat nipples and kept using it because it hurt so bad I had visions of chucking my baby accross the room when he latched. I've dealt with oversupply and foremilk hind milk imbalance and that just made fiernas first few months living hell as she would scream and latch on and off ll through each feeding. She pinches, she pokes, and hurts my breast while nursing to this day.

Eric's latch was bad from birth and periodically his whole life his latch has caused sharp shooting pains up my breast. My let downs almost always hurt. Nursing a toddler while pregnant was so not easy or fun and sensitive nipples made it awful at times I still leak. Lol

So no, just because I'm nursing a three yr old and a ten month old that doesn't mean I've had it easy not by a long shot. It could have been worse but I don't complain because I think it does no good and I know most of the struggles I've faced are normal and not really unique to m, it's just that motherhood is challenging - breastfeeding included.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/05/2012

Laura, totally understand you are passionate about BFing. Some women just can't or won't. Many women DO feel like a failed mother for not being able to...but the point is, should they? I felt like a failure for having a c section. Should I?

Laura Zoey - posted on 04/05/2012

This is all I said "Most women feel that way right? "

I can't think of a single this wrong with saying that.

So stop jumping down my throat or just quit talking to me.

Laura Zoey - posted on 04/05/2012

I do NOT think women should feel bad for not breastfeeding, even if they didn't try one latch they shouldn't feel ad.

Most of the time they DO feel bad and when I come accross these women I encourage them and support them in whatever they do



I personally would be disapointed as most every woman I've known has been if she couldn't breastfeed.

I'm not saying they should be guilty or anything, I'm saying most just are disapointed, some guilty some just a bit sad.



I'm not projecting feelings onto the population in its entirety but it is a pretty decent statement to say that most women who couldn't breastfeed are disapointed.



Meme human milk 4 human babies is free. It is private, and it is not just for premies or sick babies. I've donated to two seperate moms and there's always more moms with milk trying to donate then there are women asking for milk on my states fb page for HM4HB so yeah I don't think it's too far fetched to think I'd be able to get a decent and steady supply if I ever needed it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/05/2012

Unicorns are magical, so it might just change that formula into breast milk yet! I think you got something there Krista....if you could only find the unicorn...

Teresa - posted on 04/05/2012

Unicorn hair cup? I wonder if there's a big market for those.....

Krista - posted on 04/05/2012

All women are different, really. Do some women feel badly for not being able to breastfeed? Sure. I felt horrible for not being able to breastfeed. And some women don't feel badly. And that's cool too -- I envy them. But society seems to think that women SHOULD feel badly for not being able to breastfeed, and therein lies the problem. I don't care if you went through hell to do it, like Johnny did (and like I did, to a lesser degree). I don't care if you never even tried because you just weren't interested.



Considering how there are children out there who are suffering horrible mistreatment, neglect and abuse, I couldn't give a sweet damn if your baby is being fed from your boob, a bottle, or from a cup woven from fucking unicorn hair, as long as you're nourishing her.

Johnny - posted on 04/05/2012

Laura, I am not referring to your personal feelings about yourself but the assumption that women should generally feel badly for not being able to breastfeed.



I really notice that women who have had an easier time breastfeeding and are very pro-breast sometimes seem to think that those who fail should feel badly about it. But there is no reason too. Even the innocuous comments I hear like, "it's okay, you tried hard enough" imply that there should be a certain amount of guilt over it, although you are allowed to feel less guilt based inversely on how much effort you put in to try.



Breastfeeding must be portrayed as the biological norm, and other feeding options are secondary choices if for whatever reason breastfeeding is not possible. But there doesn't need to be some sort of self-flagellation done by women who don't end up breastfeeding or exclusively breastfeeding. We've got to stop asking women for their "excuses".



I could not agree more with Mary that it is problematic when we assign value to mothering based on things like feeding choices. We should do the right thing for ourselves, not because other people think it is the best choice. I fought very heard to be able to breastfeed, simply because it mattered to me. But I do not turn around and judge other women's mothering based on my expectations for myself. And yes Laura, I find it naive that you project your own opinions about your own situation to other women in general.



Lisa, just so you know, I got some of my milk through informal online donors. It was something I was comfortable with. Perhaps you are far wealthier than I, but the cost of gettting the available milk flown to myself at that time was prohibitive over the long term. I figured having a roof over our heads was more important than having additional breast milk to supplement with. If there had been anyone local, it might have been a different story.

Teresa - posted on 04/05/2012

I just took Patricia's statement and turned it around. Edited a little too since the red line on my computer screen was annoying me. lol



Now, when I DID have to give my girls a bottle a couple of times.... I felt like a complete failure, so I do understand what Lisa and Laura are saying. But if I had had to go to bottles.... I would've gotten over it. I had no issue w/ bottles or formula in general. It's just not what I wanted for my family.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/05/2012

Little Miss---

LOL - Same thing here. However, it was good Teresa, very true.. ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/05/2012

My criticism comes from Laura♥ and Lisa, stating that they would "never" use a bottle.



Laura♥---I don't have anything against bottles, I simply would never use them for my babies as I have no need or desire to.



Lisa--I, too, would not use a bottle, but a supplemental nursing system with donated milk instead if I could not produce milk for some reason.



That to me says, there opinion is bottles "suck", since they would never use one. I really don't care one way or the other but to me, it is a very naive statement.



I am unsure of how easy they think it is to find donor milk or a mother(s) that has supply to share.



For me, I had no choice to move to a bottle and formula. There are no milk banks where I live and I have never heard of any lactating mother's willing to share, in my area.



I just have an issue, when so many people here, such as Johnny and myself, have stated that we tried everything (Johnny, went much farther than I, which she deserves a huge applaud for), then other's come in and say "I would never ever use a bottle". They have never ever been in our situation. I never thought I would ever use a bottle either. I thought I had all the answers, just as Laura♥ and Lisa. I was so wrong, it wasn't even funny.



Seriously, don't kid yourself. Those statements you made, are very easy to make and believe. They are, however, almost impossible to make come true.



How long do you expect your baby to wait for you to find this donated milk? Are you saying you would be willing to use "anyone's" milk? What if that person was a drug addict? Wouldn't you have to make sure the milk was screened? Do you realize how expensive this would be? Is there a milk bank where you live? have you checked? Do you know if you could just walk into a milk bank and grab a bag of it (I doubt this is how it works)?



No, I honestly do not think it is as easy as you protest or believe. If it was, I guarantee all of us other die hard pro-breastfeeder's would have done it, when we found we could no longer.



It is true, what other's here have said. How you feed your baby is a very small part, in the grand scheme of things. You may be willing to stress yourself out but I promise, you would not last long. ;) A baby can sense every emotion of their mother. I for one, prefer a happy baby, of which is going to be just as healthy in the end (my boy is very healthy, I am very healthy (I was bottle-fed)), than a stressed baby because the Mom is at her wits end, trying to find them "breast"milk.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 04/05/2012

Teresa, at first I thought you wrote that and I am like WTF??? Who the hell wrote that? Unreal.

Mary - posted on 04/05/2012

Lisa, I guess you did miss something. I was replying to Laura's statement of ". I'd be disappointed if I couldn't breastfeed. No duh. Most women feel that way right? "



Yes, everyone has a right to their own feelings. It gets a bit dicey when you then assume everyone else would or should share them. When you do that, you open yourself up to criticism and opposition.

Teresa - posted on 04/05/2012

I mentioned I didn't bottle feed because I couldn't gut it, I have nothing against it... They always make it seem breastfeeding moms are dumb or something, bottle fed moms think they are so much better and know so much more... My mom bottle fed me and she doesn't know any more about babies than I do.. I just think bottle feeding moms don't like breastfeeding moms, like its unnatural I'm not talking about what God made for us, like someone said babies died if they couldn't feed from a bottle.. Hello what do you think boobs were made for, they were made for people like me who can't feed their babies from the bottle because it makes them want to throw up.. now you have a problem with breastfeeding moms then you have a problem with almost every mom.. I couldn't bottle feed even if I wanted to...



OK.... I couldn't edit it perfectly, but tell me the above statement is not offensive or judgmental at all..... ;)

Minnie - posted on 04/05/2012

Did I miss something?



Where did Laura say that anyone else has to feel disappointment over not being able to breastfeed? Is she not allowed to have her own feelings and make her own choices based on her circumstances?



I'm not sure why Mary you often bring your age into these types of conversations. To you, how your daughter was fed isn't a significant thing in the grand scheme of things. But it seems slightly condescending to imply that Laura places an amount of importance upon whether her children are breastfed or not because she is younger.



We're all allowed our own feelings.

Mary - posted on 04/05/2012

Actually, Laura, I don't even think you should assume that "most" moms feel disappointed if they are unable to breastfeed. IMO, for someone like Johnny, who has put forth what most people would describe as a heroic effort to nurse, I think it's downright healthy to not feel badly if it doesn't work out.



I understand that breastfeeding is really important to you, and something on which you place of lot of value. I'd also go so far as to suggest that you probably gleem a fair amount of personal self worth as a mother from your ability to do so. However, a lot of absolutely fantastic mothers really don't feel all that strongly about it. I breastfed my own kid for over a year, but in the grand scheme of things, it just wasn't th be all and end all for me. I enjoyed it (after the first 5 weeks), and I'm glad I did it. I realize that I was just plain lucky that it worked out for us, and required no extraordinary measures on my part. Quite frankly, if I had had significant latch or supply issues, I can pretty much guarantee that I would not have gone to even half the trouble that we both know Johnny did to nurse her daughter - and I wouldn't have felt guilty about it either. Perhaps it's the benefit of my slightly advanced age, but like Johnny, I realize that how I fed my baby the first year of her life is, in the grand scheme of things, a rather small part in my overall role as her mother. I know that I personally wouldn't have made myself crazy trying to make breastfeeding work, nor would I have wasted my time, energy, or emotion feeling too badly about it.

Minnie - posted on 04/05/2012

Laura's just stating her own personal feelings about her *own* (hypothetical situation). How is that offensive? She's not projecting it onto anyone else's situation.



About using donated milk: I have no problem whatsoever going through an informal milk donation agreement, and would seek someone out on Human Milk 4 Human Babies. I know that many are not comfortable with it, but that would be *my* decision.



We're simply stating that there are other options besides bottles and formula. Not that any of you posting here have to do that, but that there ARE other options, and clearly, both of us are comfortable with them.

Laura Zoey - posted on 04/05/2012

Johnny there's absolutely nothing naive about me saying I'd be disappointed if I couldn't breastfeed.

No duh. Most women feel that way right?

I'm not sure where the hostility came from, you've always seemed to be a friend. :-(

It's not like I've never given my babies a bottle ok? Eric had a bottle of formula as his first feed ever.

And then he had a bottle about 5 times a week while I worked. Fierna has had a bottle twice just cuz I thought it would be worth trying to seeing she'd take it.- she wouldn't :-)



Patricia there's nothing 1940s about my marriage and life. My husband and I both work, he does the cooking, I do most of the cleaning. We are partners and we don't follow gender roles.thanks for the concern

Celeste - posted on 04/05/2012

Wow, you are being extremely judgmental.



"I mentioned i didnt bf because i couldnt gut it, i have nothing against it... They always make it seem bottle fed moms are dumb or something,"



"I could bf even if i wanted to, i coulnt stay home all day i had other kids to worry about i had rent i had bills, i didnt wait for my man to bring home the money... You live in this fairytale life like you were in the 1930's and the woman stayed home and the man worked, i live in Los Angeles county where majority of the woman work...."



Perhaps if you stop making judgments like those above, breastfeeding moms might like you. You're painting everyone who breastfeeds and stays home with the same brush. You have NO idea what their circumstances are. You don't like to be judged for not breastfeeding yet you're judging those who breastfed, breastfed toddlers and those who stayed home.



You know nothing about me. You have no idea why I don't work. You have no idea what I went through to breastfeed and that I've used bottles of formula (as many breastfeeding mothers have) at some point.



I have my own issues to worry about than about how other moms feed their babies.



And I'm done. I have been trying to be nice, but you have this vendetta against breastfeeding mothers even though I've made no judgments against you and how you chose to raise your kids..

Stifler's - posted on 04/05/2012

People don't breastfed their toddlers in public because usually they don't need to. My baby is 10 months and I rarely have to give her a bottle if we're out. They usually don't feed every hour like a newborn so they just have a feed at home.

Vicki - posted on 04/05/2012

Jeepers creepers Patricia, way to lump us all in one group. I am not sitting at home waiting for my man to bring home the money (not bagging SAHMs, it's a valid choice, and I don't think you're 'sitting around' either!). I had decent maternity leave as I live in a country with humane social services. Once I went back to work I pumped for awhile and now my toddler only has breastfeeds when I'm home from work. I don't think bottlefeeding Mums are dumb anymore than I think breastfeeding Mums are more intelligent. We are all just doing the best with the knowledge we have at the time. Do I think some attitudes suck? Hell yes. Do I think the system and support for women in most countries is completely crapola? Yep.



Bf Mums don't have it in for ff Mums and I doubt all ff Mums think we're freaky weirdos. You keep taking every comment to mean 'we all hate you'. It's not true and is a bit silly frankly. I'm going to bow out now because you've dragged this down to simply another bf vs ff thing that has been done to death.

Janice - posted on 04/05/2012

Beyond semantics, I dont find anything wrong with using bottles, expressed milk or formula. Patricia you are absolutely right, breastfeeding does not work for some moms and its fantastic that humans have been able to create a way to feed our babies when breastfeeding cant be done.

But while feeding a baby may be natural act, bottles and formula are artificial.



As for feeling guilty, you don't get to choose your emotions. Before my daughter was born I planned to "try" breastfeeding but I was all set to move to formula if it didn't work. However, when she was born the urge to breastfeed her was overwhelming. We struggled through the first 2 weeks and people said "Don't feel guilty, just give up" but there was no way around my guilt and sadness. Thankfully it worked out.

Karla - posted on 04/05/2012

Now it's "I just think bf moms dont like bottle fed moms"



No idea where that came from.



and "like someone said babies died if they couldnt feed from a boob.. Hello what do you think bottles were made for,"



I’m confused by why that was said, excuse me while I clarify…

First, the conversation went from this by Patricia "So back in the days if someone couldnt bf what happend with the baby... Im pretty sure something else was used."



To the point that Mary made that “back in the days…” ”Babies died, unless the family was wealthy enough to employ/enslave a wet nurse. These were the only options when a mother was unable to nurse her own child.”



(Perhaps if a specific date had been said rather than “back in the days” then this train of thought would have been clearer, but I (and others) assumed “back in the days” meant before formula and bottles.)



Therefore, the exact point was that bottles were invented and formula developed for the purpose of feeding babies who would not otherwise be fed. (ETA - oh yeah, and to point out that if bf was impossible babies did dies "back in the day." That's just fact.)



At least that’s how I perceived the thread.

Michelle - posted on 04/05/2012

It's not fair to label "all" breastfeeding Mums in the same category at all. There are some of us that have had to bottlefeed but have also been able to breastfeed.



My only other comment in this merry-go-round is that breastfeeding is a lot easier for me. I didn't have to worry about how long I was going to be out and if I had packed enough bottles. When my youngest self weaned at 5 months it was great because then hubby could get up and feed her.



There are pros and cons to both sides and everyone will have different opinions. I don't see why a debate (it is a debating community) has to turn into such a personal tirade. Sometimes it helps to step back and actually see what has been said instead of taking bits and pieces and twisting it around.

Patricia - posted on 04/05/2012

I mentioned i didnt bf because i couldnt gut it, i have nothing against it... They always make it seem bottle fed moms are dumb or something, bf moms think they are so much better and know so much more... My mom bf me and she dont know no more about babies than i do.. I just think bf moms dont like bottle fed moms, like its unnatural im not talking what god made for us, like someone said babies died if they couldnt feed from a boob.. Hello what do you think bottles were made for, they were made for ppl like me who cant feed their babies from the boob because it makes them want to throw up.. now you have a problem with bottle fed moms then you have a problem with almost every mom.. I could bf even if i wanted to, i coulnt stay home all day i had other kids to worry about i had rent i had bills, i didnt wait for my man to bring home the money... You live in this fairytale life like you were in the 1930's and the woman stayed home and the man worked, i live in Los Angeles county where majority of the woman work.... Once again i have nothing against bf...

Karla - posted on 04/04/2012

Janice posted the definition of “natural” now I will post the definition of “normal.”



nor•mal   [nawr-muhl]

adjective

1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

2. serving to establish a standard.



These words can be, but aren’t always interchangeable.



Meme says

”I think what is being said is it is just as natural for a mother to feed with a bottle, as it is for a mother to breastfeed.”



But I’ll adjust that to this, “I think what is being said is it is just as normal for a mother to feed with a bottle, as it is for a mother to breastfeed.” Now I agree with it. That’s all my point is, no judgment, we are all just feeding our babies. (As a matter of fact in many areas it’s more normal to feed with a bottle.)



Johnny, it’s not uncommon for moms to feel bad when breastfeeding doesn’t work out, I hardly think it’s naïve or offensive to anticipate that feeling in oneself. I agree with Laura, I would have felt bad if breastfeeding hadn’t worked out for me.



I have no idea what alternative feeding method I would have used in that situation; I kind of doubt I would use a SNS as I agree with you that they seem difficult and a bit of over-kill when you can bond with your baby holding a bottle anyway. ETA, Again, to each their own, we are all just trying to do what is best for our children.

Isobel - posted on 04/04/2012

http://9laughs.com/dont-be-so-sensitive/



It is natural for a mother to feed her child in the best way possible. period.



It is also natural for women to look down their noses at people who parent differently than they do.

Karla - posted on 04/04/2012

"That wasnt what i got, i got NO its not meant for men its a womans job... IN WHAT BOOK IS THAT."



Oh that was just one opinion. Of course there will be opinions different than what you expected. I think this whole thread proves that.



I just shared the male lactation info for fun. ;-)



edit to add (ETA) glad you liked the "Hey Lady," it was meant to be fun as well.