Ear Cropping/Tail Docking/Dew Claws

Jenny - posted on 03/08/2011 ( 261 moms have responded )

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I didn't want to derail the circumcision thread so though tI'd start a new topic. What are your opinions on ear cropping, dew claw removal and tail docking?

I am ok with ear cropping as it is cartilage and have both my dogs done as well as did the aftercare for quite a few others. I refused dew claw removal as I draw the line at bone. I feel the same way about tails.

We have a great vet and she does crops for $250.

Our crops:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/je...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/je...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/je...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/je...

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~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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If people stopped abandoning their intact cats in the first place, this would not have happened. People need to be responsible. I thought I saw that Australia does not allow declawing becouse it is inhumane? I just don't see how killing cats that have been abandond and became ferrel due to survival instincts is in anyway humane. Isn't that what this whole declawing issue is about? Infact all of these issues are...relating to the humanity of animals.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Not declawed Cathy, I never said declawed. That is for domestic indoor cats. Just spayed and neutered, clip the left ear and release.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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A female cat can get pregnant, have a litter, and get pregnant continuously as long as a male is present. Even more than 1 male cat can impregnate a female at a time. Their reproductive system is INSANE!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Yes Cathy, but don't fool yourself...many were. It takes 1 femal and 1 male cat that were intact and abandond to create chaos. 1 litter of cats can bring literally HUNDREDS!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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That is why I believe in catching, spaying and neutering and releasing...not catching and killing. Atleast they cannot breed any more...helping to bring down the ferrel population. That is done in many areas, and 2 of the clinics that I have worked for were involved in this program. People would get a huge discount off of the surgeries in this case. One women monthly would catch about 8 cats...sometimes more sometimes less. We would clip the left ear indicating that they have been done, so not to waste time recapturing.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Then their should be no domestic cats at all in those countries Cathy, becouse anyone can abondon their domestic cat into the wild...BAM that is a ferrel cat.



Edited to add those ferrel cats were once domestic...whether it be that they are a product of domestic cats put into the wild or what,..they are still cats...not the same as a rodent if you LOVE cats.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Dew claw removal is when a dog gets the "thumb" removed...they can be detached (meaning it is just hanging their by sking) or attached to the bone. Those are similiar things, but not the same.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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WTF Jodi, what do you mean then? Just removing the dew claw of a cat is JUST its inside "thumb" Nail...that makes no sense...DECLAWING a cat is removing the first joint of its to remove the claw...that happens to both front feet..on a normal cat that is 10 toes...do you agree with DECLAWING?

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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And I was talking about dew claws. So I thank you not to correct me on what I was referring to. I would never agree to ANY of it.

Minnie - posted on 03/10/2011

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Hehehe, about cats not scratching just for the sake of it, lol, Zander has this thing he loves to do- he lies on his back under the couch and with a wild look in his eyes pulls himself along the length of the couch with just his arms, on his back, as fast as he can. And then he goes and chases his sister madly around the house.



I do understand that it would be hard for a person who all of a sudden needs to be safe from scratches to think of giving up his or her pet- and I do accept that in certain dire situations that declawing would be an option- but I would prefer the claw tips.



What I'm thinking of is situations like my husband's cousin...she has a four year old and they got a kitten for her. The kitten was declawed immediately. I think that's just so sad. Get kitty for baby, but deform kitty so baby doesn't get scratched. How about don't get kitty for baby? Her daughter doesn't have any sort of immune disorder.



I also don't agree with letting cats outdoors. The wildlife in the US isn't just squirrels, mice and chipmunks. There are numerous song bird species that are very threatened. Cats contribute to their decreasing numbers. Our cats do hunt indoors- we purchase feeder crickets and let them have at it. We also let in moths during the summer months. They go wild. Our cats are also fed a raw diet (yeah bones worry you, Marina) and their teeth are pristine.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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it is all a part of it Cathy...we were discussing declawing a cat. Declawing, ear crop, tail crop, dew claw removal...it is all relevent to altering your pet for your needs and wants...so is spaying and neutering.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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DECLAW...dew claw is the thumb..declaw is what we are talking about. I find that, euthinasia of ferrel cats much more inhumane than declawing a cat.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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Oh FFS Marina, get a life. The feral cat issue is totally different to the dew claw issue. If you can't see that, it isn't my problem. Good night :D

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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I understood your reasoning completely, but I would not want mass euthinasia for ferrel cats. Maybe there would not be so many if they were domestic declawed cats. People abandond their cats, that is why you have ferrel cats in the first place...it is tragic, but if they were allowed to be declawed, maybe you would not have this problem.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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Yes, it was, but I would suggest you read my reasoning correctly. It has NOTHING to do with removal of dew claws. And I think this debate was discussing domestic cats, not feral. Apples and oranges.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Correct me if I am wrong...but weren't you one of the Aussies that would have wanted ferrel cats to be put to sleep becouse cats are wiping out Australia's natural wild life? I am going off of my memory of someone saying that, and I think it was you. If I am wrong.....I will retract my statement...

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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But why does it have to be one or the other? That's my point. It doesn't have to be, there are SOOOO many options in between. I never said it had to be that way, so why make it sound like I did?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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That is my stance Jodi, I would prefer to see a cat humanley declawed rather than unjustly put to death.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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Nothing like twisting some words, Marina. Can you please show me where I said that?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Ok, so you would both rather see a cat euthinized than being declawed...that is fine. Once again, I completely see why people are against if. If it became illegal, I wouldn't flinch.
Soft paws can work, and need to be reapplied about ever 1-2 months...

Cats do not innately scratch to tear things up. They have scent glands in between their toes...and on their faces..that is why they scratch...to release their personnal scent...it is not to sharpen their claws, or becouse they feel they need to tear up stuff...have you ever noticed your cat will scratch and sniff? Just an interesting fact for those that are curious.

Merry - posted on 03/10/2011

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I guess my general opinion is if you can't handle the animal in it's full physical and mental form, then don't get that type of animal. I hate it when people say I love my dog, I just hate the barking, so I'll alter it's body to suite my desires.
Same with a cat. I thi if you want a cat you accept that they come with claws and they have a strong need to scratch and stretch. And you have to provide them with ways to go about their needs. If you can't stand your expensive furniture being scratched, then either work with your cat to fix the problem, or don't own a cat.
You can even buy little nail caps to go over the claws if you want to avoid removing body parts.
But mostly I just think if you want a cat, know it comes with claws. All pets have their quirks that we don't really like as humans, but if we choose to bring one into our house I don't think we should be physically changing their bodies to suit our preferences.
Diabetics can use the nail caps until they get their levels under control. I guess and then train their cats to use a post. It seems easier to just remove the problem, but the fact is it's not the cats fault if we don't like their claws. They deserve to have their body intact so it can function normally.
Desensitization is a rough thing, that's how I bet many people feel after a while of doing something they used to think was wrong.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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I'm not arguing, Marina. I am just saying that I have done all the research. You have no idea how many books I have read, the counsellors and dieticians I have seen, and the hours I have put into being able to help manage it. Living with it and having a friend who has it are two totally different things. That's just fact. I'm not trying to tit for tat. I'm just saying I still wouldn't remove the dew claws, and that is based on my extensive knowledge of diabetes.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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Anyway, going on to the issue of someone with an immune deficiency, etc, I just still can't see the reasoning for getting it done. I do think these issues can be avoided.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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That is fine, I have a close friend that is a vet that is a diabetic...are we gonna keep arguing tit for tat about it?

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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Actually, you'd be surprised. But I am not going to argue with you about it. I live with a diabetic.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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I am gonna do a quick run down of vaxes for you Christine,



RV= rabies (you can get a 1 year or 3 year if your vet provides it)

Dh(L)PP= Distemper



break down of what those initials means(D=distemper H=hepetitis or adenovirus L= leptospirosos (not all vaxes have due to its high rate of reaction P=paroinfluenza P= parvo virus)



Bordetella= kennel cough vax

Fecal= not a vax, checks for intestinal parasites like hookworms, roundworms, whip worms, coccidia...and tapeworms but their eggs are usually to heavy to float....that is usually seen by the owner around the anus or on the bedding as grains of rice

HWT= heartworm test...this is contracted by mosquito bites



I do recommend all of these things becouse you never know what is in the new area you go to ...plus all is essential for healthy dogs...I gave all the main things for dogs



Cats I will go through when I get back...also flea control and heartworm meds. Ok, that is the basic run down of what the vet might recommend. But the rabies and distememper are very important. The rabies is the only one by law that is required anywhere as far as I know...but distemper might be in some areas? I am not for certain.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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And, it takes a while getting blood sugar under control...it takes time figuring out insulin doses, and diet to get those numbers normal...it can be very tricky to control.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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I can see why people are so against declawing...hell, before working at a vet, I didn't like it either. But I learned how humane it CAN be, and I can admit that maybe I have become desensitized to it.



*edited to add :if it is going to save the animals life, rather than putting it to sleep becouse you cannot find a home...I would prefer to see a cat declawed. Their are so many pets that are put into shelters and cannot find homes, and just get euthinized. Their are no kill shelters, but they are so over populated, especially around the holidays that they literally do not have room...so what happens? Pets get put to sleep.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Ok...I will make it a general statement of people with immune difficient systems that can pose a higher rate of infection than the average individual.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

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On the diabetic thing - it is only an issue if the diabetic has blood sugar levels higher than acceptable level. So another solution is for the diabetic to get his/her blood glucose levels under control.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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I will retype everything I just wrote simply for your info about vaxes and such when I get back from dropping my son off at school....If you see my messages before then, let me know where exactly you will be moving to...

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

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Dammit...I just wrote you a detailed note about your question Christine....fuck.,....when I posted it deleted....is CT conneticut or do I have the initials messed up? I will try to find an answer for you today. Can you personnal message me the area you are moving to? Different counties have different requirements sometimes.

Vegemite - posted on 03/09/2011

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Hey marina i know this is off topic but do know the laws for how many pets- dogs and cats you're allowed to have in CT, what vac's are required and any other basics. I'm trying to find this info for our move but can't get a straight answer or even them same answer. I also can't get answers about quarantine, some say they don't have to be quarantined and some say they do but wont say how long. I have even been told that my cats and dogs don't need rabies shots because they are coming from a rabies free area, even so i think i'd like them to have it. Grrr so frustrating

Vegemite - posted on 03/09/2011

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what marina has said is true but IMO doesn't make de-clawing right. If i had to do something as drastic as declawing my cats for my health i'd like to think i love my cats enough to find them a better home.



Marina can you send me one of those recipes? I could use them for the feral cats we have around here, they grow to the size of medium dogs and are a huge problem. Not that long ago there was reports of a "panther" like animal, when parks and wild life rangers investigated it ended up being a huge arse black feral cat. haha

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/09/2011

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Laura, Vets can go to school for anything...they chose animals becouse they have deep compasion for them...it is an extremely difficult career....people do NOT do it for the money. Most people ( I think like 1% of our clients) do not have health insurance for their animals, so they pay out of pocket....Vets believe it or not don't gouge. Vets do not make a substantial amount...atleast in America...nurses and dentists make more in some cases...it is not a high paying field. They are not money grubbers. It is a business like any other, so of course EVERY field tries to make money. Do you see what I am getting at? Do you even have any idea how many times my office has actually done pro bono (however it is spelled) becouse an animal needs help and the people are broke? The owner eats that cost...the cost of the vet he is paying, the techs that are helping, lab use and supplies...even anesthetics and x ray...none of that is cheap.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/09/2011

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BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....totally LOL!!! FUCKING GREAT CAT TOE SOUP! One of my cats names was Kit Soup Belly, true!!!!

Danielle - posted on 03/09/2011

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@Marina~ Lmao That was completely random.
No ppl she's not sending me recipes for cat stew.

[deleted account]

I think that if i declawed my cat he would go nutty. He only trusts me. I am the only one who can do anything with him. He wont even eat if someone else feeds him which is a bitch when we want to go away. I would never in a million years declaw him even though his is an indoor cat mostly and the little shit has scratched my lounge to shreds. I wouldn't declaw him much the same as i wouldn't get my son circumcisied.

Merry - posted on 03/09/2011

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Yes, trust the one getting paid for doing it! That's not a very sound argument. We all know how much money can sway a persons opinion, especially if you are the one benifiting financially.
We all know America is becoming alone in the legality of declawing cats, many countries have outlawed it and deemed it animal cruelty.
I'll try to find some articles that you might find credible.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/09/2011

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I understand it just fine Laura, like I said, I have assisted in thousands...my info comes straight from vets who know better than me, you or your little articles...even if they are done by doctors...I still value the vets that I worked for over an article on the internet.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/09/2011

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I understand you stance on it, but I disagree with some of what you are saying. I have not read your info..I will try to later. On my way out...I did read some, but it was nothing new.

Merry - posted on 03/09/2011

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Yes the links are to say in better words what I'm trying to say. And to back up that I'm not lying :)

Isobel - posted on 03/09/2011

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I just watched two raccoons almost kill each other in my back yard the other night...I wouldn't let my cat get in their way claws or no.

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