Ear Cropping/Tail Docking/Dew Claws

Jenn - posted on 03/10/2011

And dogs are natural scavengers, but you don't see people just letting their dogs run wild, now do you? Nope. Because they are a foreign species that has been domesticated. If you choose to let your cats run loose, that's up to you, but I know around here it's against the law (by-law - just the same for dogs), and when I see one of the neighbours' cats in my yard it pisses me the fuck off. If I had a way to trap it, I would.

Cathy - posted on 03/10/2011

I was specifically talking about domestic cats Cathy, not the ferrel cat community. Don't take my words out of context.

And Jodi was talking specifically talking about ferrel cats. Don't take her words out of context.

Minnie - posted on 03/10/2011

If we're going to go that route we better send them back to Africa from whence they came ;).

My mother owns two cats and they are allowed outdoors. It bothers me to no end, because they are routinely taking down orioles, cardinals and robins.

Mary - posted on 03/10/2011

Lisa, I never implied that wildlife in the US (as a whole) was restricted to mice, squirrels, and chipmunks. However, in the development in which I live, in the suburbs of Baltimore, the predominant prey for a domesticated cat is going to be just that. I don't currently own a cat (my two dogs are more than enough!), but I wish there were more outdoor cats in my immediate neighborhood, since we have a staggering overabundance of rabbits.

As I said, I concede that my stance on allowing any past or present cats outdoors in not a popular one, but I'm just not apologetic about it. Cats are natural hunters that are meant to be outdoors, and not kept restrained in the artificial environment of a house for all the days of their life.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

You are completely twisting my words to attempt to make a point. Please stop.

I am against mass distruction of ferrel cats. I can not understand when people take such a huge stance on not declawing a pet becouse it is inhumane, but can turn around and say that ferrel cats need to be killed. I find that hypocritical on the humane to animals front. Sorry if you cannot understand my point.

I understand that Australia's eco system is fragile...all life is. If I had the means, I would say gather up all the ferrel cats, fix them....and send them to one big ass humane shelter where they can live out their days. That would be humane..but unrealistic. I am not in australia, I am not part of the government...and i have no idea how to fix their eco system. I feel it is inhumane to kill off masses of ferrel cats.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

I was specifically talking about domestic cats Cathy, not the ferrel cat community. Don't take my words out of context. And, I am not talking about declawing every cat alive. I am talking about domestic cats that people need to declaw for various reasons...wether it be health issues, or other reasons. Leaving the choice to the owner of the DOMESTIC cat to insure it has a happy healthy life. If you have read my comments throughout the thread, you will know that I do not advocate for declawed cats to be let out doors. Infact, I said if you are going to declaw your cat to keep it indoors. Context.

Cathy - posted on 03/10/2011

You said "That is my stance Jodi, I would prefer to see a cat humanley declawed rather than unjustly put to death."

What exactly are you proposing to do about all the already feral cats killing off the indeginous wildlife in Australia?

You are against declawing feral cats but not domestic. You are against culling them. You have no respect for the natural balance of what is a delicate and fragile eco system.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Lisa, btw, thank you for seeing their might be good cause for declawing. I know how die hard you are about them.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

If people stopped abandoning their intact cats in the first place, this would not have happened. People need to be responsible. I thought I saw that Australia does not allow declawing becouse it is inhumane? I just don't see how killing cats that have been abandond and became ferrel due to survival instincts is in anyway humane. Isn't that what this whole declawing issue is about? Infact all of these issues are...relating to the humanity of animals.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Not declawed Cathy, I never said declawed. That is for domestic indoor cats. Just spayed and neutered, clip the left ear and release.

Cathy - posted on 03/10/2011

So you would prefer a feral cat to be spayed, neutered and declawed and re-released into the wild? Declawing being a requirement to stop them killing off endangered species of indigenous wildlife.

And how do you think those cats will survive if they can't hunt?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

A female cat can get pregnant, have a litter, and get pregnant continuously as long as a male is present. Even more than 1 male cat can impregnate a female at a time. Their reproductive system is INSANE!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Yes Cathy, but don't fool yourself...many were. It takes 1 femal and 1 male cat that were intact and abandond to create chaos. 1 litter of cats can bring literally HUNDREDS!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

That is why I believe in catching, spaying and neutering and releasing...not catching and killing. Atleast they cannot breed any more...helping to bring down the ferrel population. That is done in many areas, and 2 of the clinics that I have worked for were involved in this program. People would get a huge discount off of the surgeries in this case. One women monthly would catch about 8 cats...sometimes more sometimes less. We would clip the left ear indicating that they have been done, so not to waste time recapturing.

Cathy - posted on 03/10/2011

Not all feral cats were once domestic and unloved.

They can continue to breed once released, at which point the become no better than a rodent.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Then their should be no domestic cats at all in those countries Cathy, becouse anyone can abondon their domestic cat into the wild...BAM that is a ferrel cat.



Edited to add those ferrel cats were once domestic...whether it be that they are a product of domestic cats put into the wild or what,..they are still cats...not the same as a rodent if you LOVE cats.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Dew claw removal is when a dog gets the "thumb" removed...they can be detached (meaning it is just hanging their by sking) or attached to the bone. Those are similiar things, but not the same.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

WTF Jodi, what do you mean then? Just removing the dew claw of a cat is JUST its inside "thumb" Nail...that makes no sense...DECLAWING a cat is removing the first joint of its to remove the claw...that happens to both front feet..on a normal cat that is 10 toes...do you agree with DECLAWING?

Cathy - posted on 03/10/2011

Declawing, ear crop, tail crop, dew claw removal of PETS not PESTS.

It is not the same as discussing pests. Feral cats are considered pests in some countries, no better than a giant rat.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

And I was talking about dew claws. So I thank you not to correct me on what I was referring to. I would never agree to ANY of it.

Minnie - posted on 03/10/2011

Hehehe, about cats not scratching just for the sake of it, lol, Zander has this thing he loves to do- he lies on his back under the couch and with a wild look in his eyes pulls himself along the length of the couch with just his arms, on his back, as fast as he can. And then he goes and chases his sister madly around the house.



I do understand that it would be hard for a person who all of a sudden needs to be safe from scratches to think of giving up his or her pet- and I do accept that in certain dire situations that declawing would be an option- but I would prefer the claw tips.



What I'm thinking of is situations like my husband's cousin...she has a four year old and they got a kitten for her. The kitten was declawed immediately. I think that's just so sad. Get kitty for baby, but deform kitty so baby doesn't get scratched. How about don't get kitty for baby? Her daughter doesn't have any sort of immune disorder.



I also don't agree with letting cats outdoors. The wildlife in the US isn't just squirrels, mice and chipmunks. There are numerous song bird species that are very threatened. Cats contribute to their decreasing numbers. Our cats do hunt indoors- we purchase feeder crickets and let them have at it. We also let in moths during the summer months. They go wild. Our cats are also fed a raw diet (yeah bones worry you, Marina) and their teeth are pristine.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

it is all a part of it Cathy...we were discussing declawing a cat. Declawing, ear crop, tail crop, dew claw removal...it is all relevent to altering your pet for your needs and wants...so is spaying and neutering.

Cathy - posted on 03/10/2011

Title of thread .... Ear Cropping/Tail Docking/Dew Claws.

Declawing is a different issue.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

DECLAW...dew claw is the thumb..declaw is what we are talking about. I find that, euthinasia of ferrel cats much more inhumane than declawing a cat.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

Oh FFS Marina, get a life. The feral cat issue is totally different to the dew claw issue. If you can't see that, it isn't my problem. Good night :D

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

I understood your reasoning completely, but I would not want mass euthinasia for ferrel cats. Maybe there would not be so many if they were domestic declawed cats. People abandond their cats, that is why you have ferrel cats in the first place...it is tragic, but if they were allowed to be declawed, maybe you would not have this problem.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Sorry, but then I find that to be hypocritical.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

Yes, it was, but I would suggest you read my reasoning correctly. It has NOTHING to do with removal of dew claws. And I think this debate was discussing domestic cats, not feral. Apples and oranges.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Correct me if I am wrong...but weren't you one of the Aussies that would have wanted ferrel cats to be put to sleep becouse cats are wiping out Australia's natural wild life? I am going off of my memory of someone saying that, and I think it was you. If I am wrong.....I will retract my statement...

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

But why does it have to be one or the other? That's my point. It doesn't have to be, there are SOOOO many options in between. I never said it had to be that way, so why make it sound like I did?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

That is my stance Jodi, I would prefer to see a cat humanley declawed rather than unjustly put to death.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

Nothing like twisting some words, Marina. Can you please show me where I said that?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Ok, so you would both rather see a cat euthinized than being declawed...that is fine. Once again, I completely see why people are against if. If it became illegal, I wouldn't flinch.
Soft paws can work, and need to be reapplied about ever 1-2 months...

Cats do not innately scratch to tear things up. They have scent glands in between their toes...and on their faces..that is why they scratch...to release their personnal scent...it is not to sharpen their claws, or becouse they feel they need to tear up stuff...have you ever noticed your cat will scratch and sniff? Just an interesting fact for those that are curious.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/10/2011

I guess my general opinion is if you can't handle the animal in it's full physical and mental form, then don't get that type of animal. I hate it when people say I love my dog, I just hate the barking, so I'll alter it's body to suite my desires.
Same with a cat. I thi if you want a cat you accept that they come with claws and they have a strong need to scratch and stretch. And you have to provide them with ways to go about their needs. If you can't stand your expensive furniture being scratched, then either work with your cat to fix the problem, or don't own a cat.
You can even buy little nail caps to go over the claws if you want to avoid removing body parts.
But mostly I just think if you want a cat, know it comes with claws. All pets have their quirks that we don't really like as humans, but if we choose to bring one into our house I don't think we should be physically changing their bodies to suit our preferences.
Diabetics can use the nail caps until they get their levels under control. I guess and then train their cats to use a post. It seems easier to just remove the problem, but the fact is it's not the cats fault if we don't like their claws. They deserve to have their body intact so it can function normally.
Desensitization is a rough thing, that's how I bet many people feel after a while of doing something they used to think was wrong.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

I'm not arguing, Marina. I am just saying that I have done all the research. You have no idea how many books I have read, the counsellors and dieticians I have seen, and the hours I have put into being able to help manage it. Living with it and having a friend who has it are two totally different things. That's just fact. I'm not trying to tit for tat. I'm just saying I still wouldn't remove the dew claws, and that is based on my extensive knowledge of diabetes.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

I need to run my kid to school...peace out.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

Anyway, going on to the issue of someone with an immune deficiency, etc, I just still can't see the reasoning for getting it done. I do think these issues can be avoided.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

That is fine, I have a close friend that is a vet that is a diabetic...are we gonna keep arguing tit for tat about it?

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

Actually, you'd be surprised. But I am not going to argue with you about it. I live with a diabetic.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

No Jodi, but neither do you.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

No Jodi, but neither do you.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

OK Marina, you obviously know all about it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

I am gonna do a quick run down of vaxes for you Christine,



RV= rabies (you can get a 1 year or 3 year if your vet provides it)

Dh(L)PP= Distemper



break down of what those initials means(D=distemper H=hepetitis or adenovirus L= leptospirosos (not all vaxes have due to its high rate of reaction P=paroinfluenza P= parvo virus)



Bordetella= kennel cough vax

Fecal= not a vax, checks for intestinal parasites like hookworms, roundworms, whip worms, coccidia...and tapeworms but their eggs are usually to heavy to float....that is usually seen by the owner around the anus or on the bedding as grains of rice

HWT= heartworm test...this is contracted by mosquito bites



I do recommend all of these things becouse you never know what is in the new area you go to ...plus all is essential for healthy dogs...I gave all the main things for dogs



Cats I will go through when I get back...also flea control and heartworm meds. Ok, that is the basic run down of what the vet might recommend. But the rabies and distememper are very important. The rabies is the only one by law that is required anywhere as far as I know...but distemper might be in some areas? I am not for certain.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

And, it takes a while getting blood sugar under control...it takes time figuring out insulin doses, and diet to get those numbers normal...it can be very tricky to control.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

I can see why people are so against declawing...hell, before working at a vet, I didn't like it either. But I learned how humane it CAN be, and I can admit that maybe I have become desensitized to it.



*edited to add :if it is going to save the animals life, rather than putting it to sleep becouse you cannot find a home...I would prefer to see a cat declawed. Their are so many pets that are put into shelters and cannot find homes, and just get euthinized. Their are no kill shelters, but they are so over populated, especially around the holidays that they literally do not have room...so what happens? Pets get put to sleep.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Ok...I will make it a general statement of people with immune difficient systems that can pose a higher rate of infection than the average individual.

Jodi - posted on 03/10/2011

On the diabetic thing - it is only an issue if the diabetic has blood sugar levels higher than acceptable level. So another solution is for the diabetic to get his/her blood glucose levels under control.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

I will retype everything I just wrote simply for your info about vaxes and such when I get back from dropping my son off at school....If you see my messages before then, let me know where exactly you will be moving to...

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/10/2011

Dammit...I just wrote you a detailed note about your question Christine....fuck.,....when I posted it deleted....is CT conneticut or do I have the initials messed up? I will try to find an answer for you today. Can you personnal message me the area you are moving to? Different counties have different requirements sometimes.

Vegemite - posted on 03/09/2011

Hey marina i know this is off topic but do know the laws for how many pets- dogs and cats you're allowed to have in CT, what vac's are required and any other basics. I'm trying to find this info for our move but can't get a straight answer or even them same answer. I also can't get answers about quarantine, some say they don't have to be quarantined and some say they do but wont say how long. I have even been told that my cats and dogs don't need rabies shots because they are coming from a rabies free area, even so i think i'd like them to have it. Grrr so frustrating