'Extended' Breastfeeding in Public Law

Mel - posted on 05/19/2011

Our ped said she can eat whatever she wants we can focas on healthy down the track our main gaols were to get her off that feeding tube and keep her weight up. As are the gaols with tubies, they dont know how to eat letalone eat enough to maintain weight and thier bodies being used to high calorie formula aren't able to cope with a normal diet of healthy food and lose weight. We've come to a point now where there only desserts or junk food as treats. Its great. Our ped took 2 weeks unpaid leave from PMH (kids hospital in WA) to work with our daughter for the weaning process. I know its hard to believe a doctor could reccomend this, but you have to understand the whole tube depedancy and that takes years of research to understand it all. SO I hope that answers any questions ...

Minnie - posted on 05/19/2011

And the rooms can be as luxurious as you want them to be, if I'm being fined for not using them, they're utter crap.

Krista - posted on 05/19/2011

And speaking of parks, let's say if I was there with two kids: one nursing, and one older preschooler. If the preschooler is having a great time on the swings, and the baby (or toddler) hungry, why should I not be allowed to feed him right there and let him continue having fun, instead of having to haul my kid off of the swings and schlep the three of us over to some nursing room?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/19/2011

Just started another thread specifically on how long to etend breastfeeding....so it can get separated from this thread.

Mel - posted on 05/19/2011

https://www.notube.at/reports

OK Im searching here for some more info for you on tube depandant babies this is just some stories Ive found so far from those who have used the tube weaning program

Krista - posted on 05/19/2011

Lisa's not saying that people shouldn't use the rooms. But she (and I) are saying that women should not be FORCED to use them. It kind of negates it being "for the mother's comfort" if the mother has no choice but to be there.

Minnie - posted on 05/19/2011

I don't have anything to prove. I can keep walking and nursing. Why stop?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/19/2011

I am not just talking about restaurants either, I am talking about all public places, parks, malls, everywhere really.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/19/2011

See Lisa, I cannot help but feel you have an out right agenda to prove. This is not me being rude, this is me saying that I think you may feel you need something to prove about BFing. I get the whole not missing out on things, but if you are right next to the room, I don't understand not utilizing it.

Isobel - posted on 05/19/2011

yeah, I wouldn't have bothered to go anywhere either...why should my food get cold? ...and for the woman who said spare us the Canadian topless crap (or something like that)...where we are from, and what the laws are here affects the way we view the world and therefore our view on the topic.

Minnie - posted on 05/19/2011

I know! The thread went crazy.

I wouldn't go to the room to breastfeed because for me, it's easier to nurse where I'm sitting. Going somewhere else makes me miss out on spending time with the people I'm with. Chastity mentioned nursing in Olive Garden's bathroom. If Olive Garden had a spiffy nursing room, I wouldn't go there still. I have nursed in OG before, and it was at my seat, so that I could continue to talk with my husband and my other daughter, and eat my lunch.

And also because it's a TOTAL waste of time to get up, head to the room, sit down, to do something I can do standing up that takes two minutes.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/19/2011

And DAMN! It took me all morning to catch up on what I missed last night. This thread blew up...again!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/19/2011

Mel, I really have a difficult time believing a Doctor would order milk shakes and burgers in a childs diet...even to keep the weight up. I am not in your shoes, so I don't know.....but I have a hard time swallowing that.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/19/2011

Ok, so here is a question for the mothers that BF in public. if every place you went to, there was BF air conditioned/heated private rooms for BFing moms, would you utilize them? Or would you still insist on BFing in public, even though there is a designated area for the privacy of mother and child???



*****edited to add***** I know I would have taken full advantage of this. I would BF in my car. I don't understand why alot of you would BF in the restroom rather than walking to the privacy of your own car. But, that is just me. Turn the AC on in the summer, get comfy and go at it!

Minnie - posted on 05/19/2011

If my kids ask questions, which they have, I tell them that every body has their own schedule for weaning etc. and it's up to the child and the mom to decide



Surely it gave you at least a slight aneurysm to explain that?

Mel - posted on 05/19/2011

Yeah junk food unfortunately, it was anything to keep her weight up out of desperation. At 3 months it was just extra butter with veges, peanut butter cream cheese, and butter on rusks etc, one one point she had to have 2 mcdonalds milk shakes per day to keep her weight semi stable, she was still losing weight but only a small amount. By the time she was 2 she was almost 100% normal knowing how to eat to maintain herself after the feeding tube. It took around 6 months to stabalise and for her to return to her weight before coming off the tube. Id love to share her story with you guys but I lost it on my hard drive, I was devastedand am still trying to retrive it because I was putting a montage together of her life. She was a rare case. Everyone knew of her. Of course theres a good amount of tubies out there but she and another girl were the only ones tube dependant in our state with no actual reason to be on the tube. She wasn;t actually FTT, I just generally write that ecause its easier, she was FTT but that wasn't the actual reason for her issues, the FTT was caused by the feeding tube, since feeding tubes cause weight loss due to the constant vommiting. We would bring in cheese burgers to hospital when she was 11 months. On our 4th and final attempt at weaning she had the worst diet. She's come through alot my girl, and its funny now that she doesn't remember the fact that all she wanted to eat was fruit, because she wasn't allowed the healthy food without things added, if she had fruit she had to have calorie powder and whipped cream on it, if she had a bottle of milk it had to have cream in it, anything she had to be be stacked with cheese butter and calorie powder. We checked her weight every day and she made it finally at 19 months and was able to maintain herself without a feeding tube.

Tara - posted on 05/19/2011

I know a mom who is preggo with her 6th child, she is still nursing her 5 yr old at night and in the morning. She has occasionally nursed her at playgroup. I find it a little weird to watch her come up to her mom, stand beside her chair, lift her shirt and start suckling away. SO... I don't look. It doesn't bother me, but I just don't want to watch so I look the other way. Would I do it? Nope, Do I care if she does? Nope. If my kids ask questions, which they have, I tell them that every body has their own schedule for weaning etc. and it's up to the child and the mom to decide.
End of story.
So what is the big deal? I'm still not getting it, you have the right to avert your gaze if you see something, anything you don't like to look at, be it a nursing toddler, a gay couple sharing a kiss or the gross butt crack of the overweight lady in line at the checkout. I have a right to nurse my child/toddler/baby, whenver and wherever I choose.
By the way, I nursed my 1 year old in a court of law this past fall. I was just sitting there daring one of them to say something, but nope, no would really cared, one guy noticed and whispered to another guard but no one did a damn thing.
Why? Cause where I live it is illegal to tell a breastfeeding mother to do anything. Except in a pool. No food or drinks allowed in there, even the bodily contained type. lol
I know cause I was once asked to leave the pool and sit on the side to nurse my newborn.

Minnie - posted on 05/19/2011

Yup. Despite high initiation rates of breastfeeding in the hospital, it drops down to a peasly 21% by six months, down to around 12% by 12 months...and how many are nursing at two? three? It is completely negligible in Western countries.



LLL and API don't count; I have NEVER seen another nursing toddler when I'm out. I'm sure for most people, my daughter will be the only one they ever see. It's not like there are loads of them for all of you to have a coniption over.



But you (you who think this should be illegal) are having a coniption, because you so very rarely see it, and because society has taught you that it's weird and wrong.



But! If there indeed were hoardes of breastfeeding mothers and toddlers wherever you went you wouldn't have a coniption because you would be desensitized and see it as totally normal. And yet, we're going in the opposite direction, oppressing those nursing dyads, which will no doubt make many not have the confidence to go out and nurse, and will therefore make it even more rare. And further increase your belief that what we do is wrong, weird and disgusting.



Let's perpetuate the backwards, prudish ideas. very progressive. My hat's off to all of you.

Good Day! - posted on 05/19/2011

The FIRST time I've ever seen a toddler breastfed in public was about two weeks ago. The girls and I went to eat lunch with new friends we'd just met. The little girl was still being breastfed at age 2. I picked up Jacie (2 months old) to nurse. The other little girl did her sign for milk and her mom obliged. Right there in the booth. I'm the ONLY one that saw this in the middle of the restaurant. No one else noticed. As Krista just said, it's a rare occurrence. And if it happens, you'll most likely not even see it.



Oh, and I've only seen infants nursed in public a very small handful of times (and mostly in our toddler music class). Either it's a rare occurrence or it was so discreet I didn't know what the mom was doing. And that's for infants. =)

Krista - posted on 05/19/2011

Its all b/f moms right to b/f there children in public even up to 2-3.I don't think many go past that in public i mean.If you don't like it stay going or look the other way.

That's exactly it. I just don't see why they would make it illegal. Are there large hordes of moms breastfeeding toddlers in public places? No, there aren't. The breastfeeding stats make it pretty darned clear that moms who breastfeed toddlers are a very rare sighting indeed.

So why are people so up in arms about something that they might only see once every few years or so?

Jenn - posted on 05/19/2011

Sorry Mel, I didn't think I had said that you were dishonest, I just find it VERY absurd that a Dr anywhere in the world would say that you HAD to give your child yogurt at 9 months. Nobody ever HAS to have dairy in their diet, so it's not that I don't necessarily believe you or think that you're intentionally being dishonest, I just thought that maybe you heard them say that you COULD do it and took it as you SHOULD do it. If that's what they told you, then that's what they told you. But another point as Tara said about the junk food thing - did they really tell you to give your baby junk food? Or did they say to give high fat foods? Again, is this a case of misinterpretation? Or do you just have the shittiest Doctors on the face of the earth?

Ashley=) - posted on 05/19/2011

I gave up b/f but if i had of kept it up.There is no hope in hell of me leaving any public area for b/f.If anyone ever told my sister to leave a public place like a cafe etc..they would want to run..lol.I would not tolerate that mentality.

Its all b/f moms right to b/f there children in public even up to 2-3.I don't think many go past that, in public i mean.

If you don't like it stay going or look the other way.

I would not leave a public place for anybody.I would have to be carted off .lol



F the law on this one:-(

Tara - posted on 05/19/2011

FTT is a very real issue. But when Mel posts that stuff about junk food, well what's a reader to think?
High calorie food, high fat foods are different than junk food which tends to be laden with sodium, trans fats and high cholesterol. I can see avocados, high fat cheeses, sour cream, high fat milk once old enough to have milk, and other high calorie foods, but she didn't say "high calorie, high fat food" she said "junk food". So what exactly did she feed her 3 month old -2 years? What kind of food does she mean when she says "junk food"? Cause that is a very misleading term if indeed she fed her healthy,, high fat, high calorie food, why wouldn't someone just say that? Instead of implying they fed their kid junk food? On doctors orders no less?

Lacye - posted on 05/19/2011

Becky that is completely unrealistic. If there were laws about what we can't do out in public, most people wouldn't be allowed in public. And breastfeeding moms aren't the only ones out there that get jumped on. Formula fed moms get their share of it too from breastfeeding moms, moms who choose to spank get it from the nonspanking moms, nonspanking moms get it from the spanking moms. It's all difference of opinions. We aren't going to make everybody happy. They aren't talking about banning breastfeeding in public completely. Just past the age 2, which is the time when kids need more than just mother's milk to survive.

Krista - posted on 05/19/2011

@Tara: Mel's daughter was FTT, which is often treated with high-calorie foods and high-calorie formula.

But I believe they're supposed to be HEALTHY, high-calorie foods...things like full-fat yogurt, avocados, bananas, things like that...

From the Merck manual: Mild to moderate failure to thrive is treated with nutritious, high-calorie feedings given on a regular schedule. Severe failure to thrive is treated in the hospital where social workers, nutritionists, feeding specialists, psychiatrists, and other specialists work together to determine the most likely causes of the child's failure to thrive and the best approach to feeding.

It just seems very odd that a doctor would recommend feeding a baby "junk" food, which is often packed to the brim with sodium and saturated fats.

Amanda - posted on 05/19/2011

In defense of Mel (I hope) by junk food she actually means high fat foods. I know a little boy who was on a feeding tube, and was ordered to eat high fat foods to get his weight gain up so that he could have his feeding tube removed before the age of 2, but his doctors NEVER ordered junk food for his diet, that would be irresponsible as a doctor.

Tara - posted on 05/19/2011

Sorry Mel but I was just reading through the thread and I came across this quote from you.
"...when I had to feed my child junk food and nothing else from 3months -2 yrs, but she had a medical reason so its completely different. Theres not a medical reason (that I know of correct em if Im wrong) to breast feed a child."

There is no way that any doctor would tell you to feed your child junk food. Honestly? People are supposed to believe that some doctor told you to feed a 3 month old junk food right up until she was 2?
I'm just not buying it. There is no medical need for a child to eat junk food. There are many medical needs for a child to breastfeed and many non-medical reasons. There are no medical or other reasons ever to feed your child junk food.
If anything is going to illegal it should be parents feeding their babies junk food.. Who gives a 3 month old anything but boob milk or formula? Junk food? Seriously?

Tara - posted on 05/19/2011

@Chasity
Why did you have to go into the washroom at olive garden to nurse your baby? Do they have a "no breastfeeding on these premises" sign posted somewhere? Cause to my knowledge you can't be kicked out of an establishment for nursing your baby. Where do you live?

Elisabeth - posted on 05/19/2011

Wow ... interesting read. I had no idea that public breastfeeding was actually against the law in some places/countries!

I find it mindboggling that there would be such a law in the year 2011.

Nikki - posted on 05/19/2011

This is so disgusting. Breast feeding is a basic human right is it not? I just cannot believe in this day and age with all the knowledge that we have that this is still happening in what is supposed to be one of the most progressive countries in the world. Very sad.

Becky - posted on 05/19/2011

My first thought on reading this law, "Wow, prudish and oppressive much?!" So some people don't want to see a toddler breastfeeding. So what? Why does it seem that it is only breastfeeding mothers who need to have respect for everyone around them? Why does the woman not yelling at her child and calling him a f..ing brat in the middle of Walmart not have to have respect for the fact that I don't want to see that? Why do the young adults who pepper their conversations with curse words every second word a foot away from my child not have to have respect for the fact that I don't want my child hearing those words yet? Why do the fat ass hairy men with bad b.o. not have to respect that I don't want to see their moobs or smell their offensive odour? Why, why, why...? No one else has to respect what I want to see, hear, or smell, but as a mother breastfeeding her 20 month old, I have to worry about and have respect for everyone else around me? Sorry, just doesn't fly with me. Until they legislate all the actions I and everyone else find offensive, I will continue to think this law is prudish, oppressive and downright disgusting.
FTR, I very rarely breastfeed my 20 month old in public anymore. Mainly because he just doesn't generally ask for it when we're out. If he did, I would, and I wouldn't seek out a nursing room or use a cover. You seriously see NOTHING but the back of his head and my disgusting, flabby, stretchmarked belly, when he is bfing. Most of the shirts I wear show off more boob - not that I have much to show off - than I do when I'm bfing. And I do not think I have ever seen a 4 or 5 year old bfing in public. Yeah, I might find it a little disconcerting if I did, but would I think it should be illegal? Hell no!

Chasity - posted on 05/18/2011

wow thats just great, another plan to stop the few mothers who do BF no wonder why so many formula feed we are being brain washed into thinking this is how it should be and is, very upsetting! I will be posting a petition soon hoping we can get more public places to have a private room for a BF mothers, sadly on mothers day at the olive garden I was forced to feed my 5 month old son in the restroom :( it was gross and embarrassing and I would have done it in front of everyone but it was packed from wall to wall. Places like that need private areas.

Joanna - posted on 05/18/2011

Since when did boobs get so confusing?

They're boobs folks. They're made for feeding babies. They just so happen to be nice to look at, too.

I don't get why it is SUCH a heated topic. I don't like watching people eat with their mouths open, so I don't look. If you don't like watching a baby/toddler/child eating, do the same. It's simple.

I hate how the world is getting in the mindset that there needs to be laws on the dumbest stuff, sueing for the dumbest stuff, etc. It drives me insane.

Charlie - posted on 05/18/2011

"if thats the law then why are there so many of those situations Loureen, why do people get kicked out of places for breast feeding, if people know its the law that they have breast feeding rights? "

Because people are idiots thats why and it IS the law you can check with any state discriminatory regulations .

Good Day! - posted on 05/18/2011

My first thought when I heard the law was, "Are there really women trying to walk around nude in Georgia?" Because the handful of times I've been there, I haven't seen them. And anyway, breastfeeding does not equal nudity.

Lacye - posted on 05/18/2011

Yes Jodi. They told me I had to give her apple juice and I had to start making her drink more water. I told them flat out that I can't make my infant drink water and she wasn't going to get apple juice. I was pissed.

Minnie - posted on 05/18/2011

Yes. Back to if it isn't harmful it shouldn't be illegal.

Jaime - posted on 05/18/2011

What is the difference between a breast that's feeding a newborn and a breast that's feeding a two-year-old? I'm having difficulty discerning that difference and what makes it indecent once the child's age hits 2. And you're right that Georgia is not like Canada in allowing women to walk topless in public, but we're also not talking about topless women walking around in Georgia...we're talking about women breast-feeding their child in public.

Good Day! - posted on 05/18/2011

Thanks K.R. That is exactly the point of this debate. It doesn't matter if YOU agree or not (general you). What matters is that the government is trying to regulate a natural, normal, healthy parenting decision.

K. - posted on 05/18/2011

My oldest has issues with constipation too. I was told to avoid milk and milk products. It's a case by case scenario though as I'm sure what's causing one kids issues aren't necessarily what's causing the next kids. But anyway, back to the topic. The government (at least here in the US) is becoming too overbearing for their own good. Whether or not I agree or disagree with 'extended' breastfeeding, I put that in quotes because it's a word that can have different meanings to different people, is besides the point. At what point do a woman's breasts become indecent when feeding a kid? Do I think that a 2 year old could probably have a cup of milk as opposed to the breast in public? Yes, sorry but I do, that's my opinion. My issue with the original post is when does 'indecency' begin? These little hot to trot teens and young adults walking around with their boobs hanging all over the place, is that indecent? Will they be ticketed and fined as well? And please no responses about how people in Canada or wherever can walk around with their boobs hanging out and it's perfectly legal. Good for you, this isn't that place. This is Georgia we're talking about.

Minnie - posted on 05/18/2011

Hmmm...I guess people are questioning what you heard from your health care providers, Mel, is because it seems that your health care providers are saying one thing, and then the organization they are a part of displays totally different information via its webpage. It doesn't seem consistent. ABA's webpage acknowledges that babies are ready for solids at different times and that it is OK to delay, that it won't hurt them. And yet your ABA volunteers tell you noooooo don't delay or they will die.



I mean, I'm not Australian, so my perception of Australian information regarding breastfeeding is from the Australian Breastfeeding Association's website.

Kathy - posted on 05/18/2011

Did I miss something? How did we get on to solids?

Jodi - posted on 05/18/2011

They told you you HAD to give her apple juice? WTF?

Lacye - posted on 05/18/2011

I never gave it to my daughter. But that is what I was told. They have told me several different things that just didn't feel right to me. Like when they told me I had to give my daughter apple juice even though she is allergic to apples. Sometimes people just don't make any sense.

Nicole - posted on 05/18/2011

Okay, just finished reading all the comments and I think I need to go to the hospital now to make sure that I have no concussion from slamming my head on the desk...

Mel - posted on 05/18/2011

I think is a case of different views theres so many different views country to country or even just different places its amazing. I guess we all go by what we know so then when other people question us with things we have never heard of and tings that are considered dangerous, it surprises us. It does me anyhow. Im off bubs has had a nice 2.5 hour sleep Im sure she won't be asleep much longer. I hope you (Lisa I mean) can possibly understand a little more of where I am coming from now. For me some things suggested on here onebeing delayed introdction of solids seem crazy and dangerous, but in some places it might be normal. Every doctor has different opinions but the only ones I know of here say 4-6 months for solids latest due to the iron necessities , growth and development and to get them used to different tastes and textures

Jodi - posted on 05/18/2011

Well, really, if we think logically about it, dairy isn't REQUIRED. After all, if it was what would the babies with lactose intolerance or cow protein allergies do?

Minnie - posted on 05/18/2011

That's very very weird that they are telling you ladies that dairy is REQUIRED at nine months. As if we have a symbiotic relationship with bovines. I dunno, I make milk for my children, why give cow's save for just liking the taste?

Wow, we're totally OT.

Lacye - posted on 05/18/2011

I was told at the local health department where I live that when my daughter turned 8 or 9 months old that I needed to start introducing yogurt to her. IDK. Maybe it's one of those different folks different strokes kinda thing.

Mel - posted on 05/18/2011

no Jenn I rang up about constipation, when I didnt know that it was just caused by not enough fluids , now that she is on meds shes fine, but They said I could try removing dairy from her diet as it was required until 9 months of age, so thats definately what they said. Yeah Im not great with wording things, but I also dont appreciate people implying Im being dishonest either because you couldn't meet a more honest person, I dont believe in being dishonest therefore its not in me to do so