Extreme Discipline

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Sherri - posted on 01/10/2011

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@Bonnie and you never will understand because that is not how you CHOOSE to discipline and that is fine. I happen to have a different approach and that is okay too.

Jodi - posted on 01/10/2011

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I also meant to add that a part of the learning process for children is to ALLOW them to take calculated risks (and you have to let them sometimes make that calculation while you provide the environment in which to make that decision, and it may be a wrong one). A BIG reason why many children today mature so late is because we DO shelter them from consequences. In order for them to develop a healthy respect for consequences, they have to take risks and occasionally make mistakes. Teaching them consequences BEFORE they make the mistake won't necessarily prevent the mistake, because their logical reasoning (risk vs. benefit) is still lacking. This can only be learned through experience or trial and error. Allowing them to make the small mistakes in life (and suffering the consequences, whether natural, or of a disciplinary nature), is sometimes the only way they will learn some lessons.

Jodi - posted on 01/10/2011

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"around what age would you say a child learns consequence? "



Julianne, even a 17 year old believes he is invincible. Many children this age still don't understand true consequence. The answer to this question is not black and white. Logical reasoning does not develop in a child until around age 7. That's a fact. The true maturity of logical reasoning doesn't come until much later (more in their early 20s).



Obviously some individuals mature early or later than others. In the meantime, many children do things without considering consequences, whether we, as parents, have taught them or not. The logic that you will teach them the consequences before they act is fundamentally flawed. Because while sometimes they will listen and pay attention to that, there really is not a FULL comprehension of the true consequences unless they have experienced them or until they have matured sufficiently to take them seriously.

Melissa - posted on 01/10/2011

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Spraying a child in the face of any age seems quite stupid. I agree I do it to my cats but would never even think of doing it to my children. I do believe in smacking but only after Ive told my child not to do something and she ignores or if Icount to three then I warn her she will be smacked if she continues and she does. It works for me but not for everyone. I saw some coments on smacking for standing up in the bath. Not something I would do either. Ask them count to 3 then take there hand and pulll down to sit down not hard enough to hurt but hard enough for them to understand they are not to stand up in the bath. I dont have a bath tub in my house so theres no non slip mats at other peoples like her grand parents or what not

[deleted account]

I actually could never wrap my brain around why teens did what they did, when i was younger, I had to be the one to stop my friends from being foolish on a regular basis.

The more you know :)

Jenn - posted on 01/10/2011

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You're right Julianne - to some degree you do understand that b will happen if you do a - but not fully which is why so many teens do the things they do, whatever that may be, without really thinking of the full outcome.

Nikkole - posted on 01/10/2011

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I guess it depends on a few things how the child was raised and maturity level and there brain development, some kids just don't do things they are warned about and others could care less every child is different. My sister is almost 18 and she still does this she knows is wrong and could hurt people or hurt herself and she will do it over and over again. Even when i was 16 or so i would do things i knew i shouldn't! And in girl scout's/boy scout's you are taught fire starting for survival only im sure they tell you don't start fires unless absolutely necessary. But grounding kids and teenagers from doing fun things is not the end of the world i got grounded VERY often and im alive and well.

[deleted account]

I can remember thinking of the consequences of my actions at a young age...It might have been not fully developed, but i could still decipher some consequence. Even a baby can to a certian degree.

Kate CP - posted on 01/10/2011

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The progression of a typical conversation is rather interesting, isn't it?

Jenn - posted on 01/10/2011

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That part of the brain forms last and our brains don't finish forming until we are in our 20's.

Minnie - posted on 01/10/2011

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it IS interesting how we went from debating the merits of spanking/squirting 22 month old children for having temper tantrums to what we would do with an older child who started a fire when no parent was around.

Bonnie - posted on 01/10/2011

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How can someone give a baby or a toddler "a taste of their own medicine?" I'm curious to know, because I can not understand that. I baby or toddler could have no idea what they are doing and there is their parent biting them back?
I still don't get it.

Bonnie - posted on 01/10/2011

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"Teaching them something is wrong by showing them it hurts when they do it Bonnie is not abuse!!"

"Intentionally hurting another IS ABUSE by definition and by most laws around the world . "

Thanks Loureen, this is exactly what I was going to point out.

Bonnie - posted on 01/10/2011

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Wow, I was gone for nearly 3 hours and this thread increased by 6 pages.

Charlie - posted on 01/10/2011

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ok that makes more sense , It isn't how you came across in previous posts though which is why people may be confused by you .

[deleted account]

Obviously you can't do a and produce b to the degree you took me at. Everyone still has free will and will make decisions based on their own judgment. As a parent, we need to ensure their judgment is working to the best of its ability. Yes people make mistakes, that's a fact of life, as parents we teach our children to learn from other peoples mistakes, instead of their own. Times will arise when the comprehension just isn't developed. If a child doesn't fully understand what they are doing, its our job to protect them from doing wrong. When someone fully understands how bad something can turn out, plain and simple, they don't do it. Myself, or any number of outside influences could inadvertently influence my daughter in a negative way. I am aware of that. I know as a parent i will make mistakes too, and i need to learn from them so i can grow as a person. Mistakes aren't meant to tell us we're bad, they are meant to teach us when we cant learn from others.

Charlie - posted on 01/10/2011

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"One of the last pieces of the puzzle to form is the part that puts consequences to our actions - so if you knew what all of the consequences were to all of the actions that you made then you are a marvel of science. Just sayin'. "

This is scientific fact .

Jenn - posted on 01/10/2011

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I remember being a child also Julianne. I was young and not stupid, but young people's brains literally have not completely formed. One of the last pieces of the puzzle to form is the part that puts consequences to our actions - so if you knew what all of the consequences were to all of the actions that you made then you are a marvel of science. Just sayin'.

Charlie - posted on 01/10/2011

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So you accept that people inherently have flaws yet this view on perfection goes against your theories on parenting being so straight cut .

If I do A. she will do B.



Don't get me wrong I agree with you mostly but I do find you a little contradictory .

[deleted account]

do you not remember being a child??? I do, i was young, not stupid, i could still grasp consequence.

[deleted account]

my theory on perfection is a little different..... my flaws make me perfect, every difference that i have is perfectly placed there to make me who i am. If i didn't have my flaws then i wouldn't be me. I make mistakes just like anyone else would, if i didn't i wouldn't be human. Those mistakes are needed to mold me into the person I am . My flaws make me different. I'm still perfect.

Jodi - posted on 01/10/2011

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" i know its a risk and i would teach her not to BEFORE IT HAPPENED you can do that you know, teach someone consiquesnces before they do something wrong"



I am just going to say, that is all great in theory. But in practice, trying to teach a child consequences before an action is often not practical. Kids don't understand consequences when it is intangible to them. You can tell a child or a show a child until you are blue in the face that if you cross the road without looking, you can get seriously hurt or even die, but unless they have actually experienced severe pain or injury or had to deal with death, they don't, and won't understand.



My daughter had an experience with death of someone she knew fairly well just this year. At 5, of course she KNEW sick people died. My friend had cancer, and passed away in May. My daughter didn't understand the permanence of death. It took her a while to understand that she wasn't coming back. To a child death is an intagible and they struggle to grasp it, just as they struggle to grasp many abstract concepts.



I am just saying that it's all good to TRY to teach about consequences before they actually act, but it actually doesn't always work that way. Children need to sometimes make their own mistakes, however much it pains us as parents. You have to hope that you have done a good enough job that the mistake isn't too bad, and doesn't have serious consequences, but teaching them in advance guarantees nothing. It doesn't make us bad parents because they didn't learn the consequences in advance - kids will be kids.

Charlie - posted on 01/10/2011

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There is no such thing as perfection , those who believe it are IMO under their own illusion to be imperfect is human .

Sherri - posted on 01/10/2011

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I wouldn't beat my child either. I would bring them down to the local fire station or call them and have them come and scare the bejesus out of them so it never happened again and until they could earn my trust again they wouldn't be allowed out of my site for quite a while. Also they would lose all their privileges.

[deleted account]

Knowing not to abuse your kids isn't knowing everything. Having a philosophy on how to take care of your children, isn't knowing everything. Thats like a fraction of a fraction of what someone could know. I know nothing compared to whats out there...

[deleted account]

Yep, i am perfect, i am just the way that i am suppose to be, your perfect too :) thank you for pointing out the obvious

[deleted account]

Julianne-You must be perfect:)

I'm not and I won't pretend to know everything. I also know what its like to do everything for younger siblings. My parents worked out of town and we ran off all the help so at 14 and my sister 16 we did ALL of it.

Minnie - posted on 01/10/2011

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Kate- what I see in your mother's punishment of you after the fire episode is that she couldn't trust you alone and so you were not allowed out of the house. That makes sense to me. I agree with her not letting you have any fun while you were home. Gives some time to mull over what happened.



I also think what Julianne would do in the situation is helpful as well.

Charlie - posted on 01/10/2011

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"If she did something that endangered her life, i would be furious, but i would never beat her, nothing she does will ever be worth a beating. "

No one was saying you would .

"If she was caught with fire, after me teaching her not to do it, i would talk and discuss it with her, show her videos on reasons not to play with fire among other things. I would not beat her..."

This is the answer people were looking for :)

Kate CP - posted on 01/10/2011

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"If she was caught with fire, after me teaching her not to do it, i would talk and discuss it with her, show her videos on reasons not to play with fire among other things. I would not beat her..."
Sorry, took me a minute to realize you actually answered the question I asked. Thank you for finally answering me.

Kate CP - posted on 01/10/2011

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I wasn't beaten either! I was grounded! But you said that grounding a child was tantamount to imprisonment and a crime against human rights.

Beverly - posted on 01/10/2011

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Sarah---Wasn't that awful about that lady on Dr. Phil! My God I think If I was there I would have suggested that they haul her away in a paddy wagon. Bring her to Iraq and let them deal with her. That poor little boy and she adopted him. I'm as adopted mom and would never do that to mine or any child. I wonder once that story gets out if that agency hears about this if they will try to remove him? Well there goes another troubled youngster we will have to deal with because this idiot doesn't know how to parent.

[deleted account]

Have you ever had a speeding ticket, had to pay fines, or even had to do community service?

nope

[deleted account]

you know I agree with most of your philosophy, but we cannot assume that our children will not make mistake







I'm not assuming she is not going to make mistakes, but playing with fire is going to be one thing she is going to know at a very young age not to do. If she did something that endangered her life, i would be furious, but i would never beat her, nothing she does will ever be worth a beating.



If she was caught with fire, after me teaching her not to do it, i would talk and discuss it with her, show her videos on reasons not to play with fire among other things. I would not beat her...

[deleted account]

Julianne-Have you ever had a speeding ticket, had to pay fines, or even had to do community service?

Kate CP - posted on 01/10/2011

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Lisa: That's why I was grounded. My mom didn't beat me, she didn't spank me. She said "I'm really disappointed in you. You should know how dangerous that is. And because you showed a severe lack of judgement you're grounded this weekend. No TV, no outside time, and no friends can come over."

I wasn't happy about it (duh) but I never did it again.

Charlie - posted on 01/10/2011

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Lisa I absolutely agree with your previous post and would even say that this part "Julianne, you know I agree with most of your philosophy, but we cannot assume that our children will not make mistakes."
Is something I would like to highlight .

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