First thing that pops into your head...

Mandie - posted on 09/16/2011

Honestly, nothing at all would pop in to my head. I try very hard not to judge other parents unless it's VERY obvious they are WILFULLY endangering their child

Sarah - posted on 09/15/2011

So if emotional/mental issues are as valid a reason to not breastfeed as medical issues............then surely almost every woman who chooses not breastfeed has a valid "excuse".

This is what I don't get, whenever a bottle feeding Mum explains her reasons........the breastfeeding Mum's say "Well, you've got good reason to have not breastfed"........I've never once on COM seen anyone say "What a crap reason!"
So most of the time breastfeeding Mum's accept that there's a lot of different reasons that could contribute to not breastfeeding..........and yet they still hold onto to their belief that bottle feeding Mum's should be breastfeeding.......despite knowing deep down there most likely IS a valid reason.....they still sit in judgement.

Not sure if I'm explaining myself very well! lol

Sal - posted on 09/15/2011

exactly juliann, i had this issue with my sis, she was in need of some help but wouldn't even see a dr as she thought they'd tell her to stop bf and go on antidepressants..it was a very scary time,

Julianne - posted on 09/15/2011

Mental health is just as important as physical health. If breastfeeding interferes with either one then the best choice is formula.

Charlie - posted on 09/15/2011

I had two profoundly different experiences breastfeeding with my two kids and like you Sharon didnt get to start bonding with my first until AFTER I stopped breastfeeding.

I suffered PND and after every feed found myself curled up in a ball crying felling like I was being sucked into a black hole but because I thought breastfeeding was more important than my health and well being I struggled through until 6 months when I weaned .....My child got his breastmilk but he didnt have a mother until I finished and my PND faded away I promised next time I wouldnt push myself if I were to get PND again.

The second time was amazing I finally got to feel that amazing breastfeeding bond I missed out on with Cooper , your mindset and mental wellbeing really does make a difference ....honestly the difference didnt compare for me.

I find that on other parenting communities some lactivists are very dismissive of mental health being a valid enough reason.

Sherri Im not sure that breastfeeding has anything to do with the comparison between your children as you said one of them has a learning disabilty the other I would assume doesnt.

Sal - posted on 09/15/2011

what i have found with the hard core proboob lot is that no reason is sound.....2 of my babies sleep poorly, screamed all the time, my son was losing weight my daughter was still a oooo at 5 months, i had tried everythingbi could think of, i had spent a week at tresillian nothing was working, but when i changed to formula with my son the dr had a go at me, and when i suggested to the lactation consultant at tresillian that maybe formula was the best bet she told me that was definatly not the issue, even though for a full week i slept, feed and done everthing under their direct insruction, had concelling incase i was depressed or unwhittingly harming her on purpose yet nothing had changed, she still screamed day and night, weighed the same.....went home, put her on formula she grew, she slept, i think a little bit of common sence would go a long way....

Rosie - posted on 09/15/2011

i've never received a sample of formula at a hospital, and they knew i was formula feeding by the time i left the hospital.

Sherri - posted on 09/15/2011

@Susanne the main reason is that to me that is when they are too old any longer. Also that is what is socially acceptable here and I honestly have no qualms about formula or breastmilk.



Breastfeeding is just not that important to me. One to me is just as good as another. I really think breastmilk is fine but is not the be all or end all and a baby is not going to be healthier or better off just because they were breastfed vs. formula fed.



Heck the healthier and smarter of my kids is the one that was NEVER breastfed. My son that was breastfed the longest is the one that struggles with all aspects of school has a learning disability and has ADD.

Brittany - posted on 09/15/2011

Aww...sweet babies :)

You know, there could be breastmilk in there or maybe the child is lactose.

Sarah - posted on 09/15/2011

I had no medical reasons for not breastfeeding, all my reasons were emotional ones.

Julianne - posted on 09/15/2011

Sharon their is a HUGE difference between not being able to breastfeed because of medical reasons and a healthy milk producing mom CHOOSING not to.

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/15/2011

Sharon I doubt anyone would argue your choice to use formula. You did try and expected it to work, you had proper knowledge and support but it just wasn't in the cards. And your son is happy and healthy with formula.
IMO, that's the proper use of formula, when breastfeeding ceases to be the best choice.
Breastfeeding wasn't the best choice for you anymore so formula became the best choice. Now the friends I mentioned, breastmilk was still their best choice because there really was no reason to use formula.
Yes moms choice blah blah but in the baby's best interest, they (in those scenarios) should have breastfed.
I had ppd, pretty severe too, but I had abundant milk. So for me breastfeeding helped the ppd, for you the lack of milk aggravated the ppd. So your best option was formula.
Do people really bash your reasoning for formula feeding?

Sapphire - posted on 09/15/2011

When a mother's mental health is at stake due to post-partum depression, lack of bonding, failure to produce milk, all the best advice in the world and the most wonderful support system in place is not going to change an extreme lactivist's mindset. It's either "breastmilk or not good enough" in their mind. Period. Seriously, I became a happier mother and bonded more with my son AFTER I lfited the burden of breastfeeding and began formula. I know there is a difference between formula & breastmilk and I would never claim they are equal. But the mindset of lactivists have to change if you expect more mother's to embrace nursing. Formula fed my son and millions of other babies. Go line up all the 6 year olds in his class and you truly cannot tell who was fed what.

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/15/2011

Yes the hospital I had Eric at gave me a whole free tin of formula even though I said I was breastfeeding they said well you get one anyways just in case your milk quits on you in the middle of the night.
:0
Yeah thankfully I knew better but what if I hadn't? What if I was now worried every night that it's possible my milk could just up and quit?!?!
I think that the reason most women casually use formula is that they think there isn't that big a difference between formula and breastmilk. Women I've talked to have said stuff like 'oh it hurt and I just went through labor and was sick of the pain so I used formula since it's practically the same anyways' literally, verbatim. She was a coworker and I was speechless. It was 5 years later so there was little use arguing her but I tried to explain a bit about how much different breastmilk is since she was engaged and maybe going to have another baby.
Another lady knew at work said, 'i tried to breastfeed in the hospital but I had no milk and he was hungry so we gave him a bottle and my milk never came in' AAAHHH!
Lol so it seems simple knowledge is severely lacking here.
Now I have a neighbor who gave birth just after I did to Fierna and she said she hemorrhaged after the c section and had to go back to the hospital and her drs told her she was safe to pump milk to keep feeding her baby but she told me 'i was on pain killers so there's no way I was feeding my baby my milk! The drs said it was fine but no way would I want my baby getting drugs in my milk!'
Soooo, yeah she put the girl on formula at that time and never looked back.
Simple knowledge goes a LONG way! You don't have to bash formula as poison but seriously some people reslly think it's the same as breastmilk in all aspects.
There ARE risks to using formula, not usually life threatening risks but they are there.
Doesn't mean every formula fed baby will be sickly or fat or stupid but breastmillk IS the way our bodies are designed to eat and formula IS a man made substitute that has some flaws.
When needed formula is darn good. But way way way too many babies are being fed it because of lack of proper knowledge or help or support to the mom.

Sarah - posted on 09/15/2011

Oh, the other thing I wanted to add was that Sherri deciding to stop breastfeeding at 6 months is the perfect example of what I mentioned in an earlier post...........rather than people praising her and applauding her for breastfeeding for 6 months...............it's automatically : "Well why not longer?!"

I don't get that at all.

Minnie - posted on 09/15/2011

COM isn't working for me. Test.

America3437 - posted on 09/15/2011

Never really thought about it. I was uncomfortable with the whole breastfeeding thing so even though I know breastmilk IS best i fed formula from a bottle.

Georgia - posted on 09/15/2011

It's interesting to see how different things are between countries. Like the UK, there is no advertising allowed in Australia. Unlike the UK, there is no advertising allowed for anything other than stage 3 toddler milk (older than 12 months). No free samples, no advertising, no recommendations from doctors/hospitals (at least there's not supposed to be, but I do know there are some that do) and on the tins of formula (all three stages) there is a giant health warning that starts off with "Breast is best."

As far as I've seen in grocery stores, there's only about 5 different brands of formula. They each make a regular version and a "Gold". Couldn't really tell you what the difference is except the price.

As to the OP, I've had that happen not long ago with one of the mum's from Seth's school and my first thought was "Why isn't she breastfeeding?" Especially because I know she's pretty AP. But, to be totally honest, it would be my first thought no matter who I saw and I'm even willing to admit that there would be a little bit of judgement in it. I ended up eating my words with this particular mum though, because about three weeks later a few of us mums were chatting and I found out that she feeds pumped breastmilk when out. Yes, I felt bad for having made a bit of a criticism toward a nice lady (even though they were only my thoughts) and relieved in a way too.

I even found out why she feeds bm whenever she's out too. She said that she doesn't ever bf in public anymore (she's got 3 kids, her eldest is 7) because one time she was feeding her eldest while sitting on a bench in the shopping centre and some random couple went up to her and gave her a serve! They told her that what she was doing was disgusting and she should know better, blah blah blah. She was in her early 20s at the time and she took it really hard... and never bf in public again.

The hospital where I had my 2 boys were "breastfeeding friendly", but in the baby classes the midwife went over both bf and ff. With ff it was basically how to care for bottles and to follow the directions on the tin, but bf took about 3/4 of one night. She went through everything from what's happening in the boob, how the baby gets it out better than a pump, latch and different holds. Man, it was so overwhelming and I'd already read a book that covered the topic!

I think that bf has a few hills to climb before it becomes an accepted practice, sadly. The way to normalise it is to have more mothers breastfeed and the way to do that is through education. Educating women and men that breasts were made to feed babies long before porn came along and the medical community on the well studied benefits of bfing, current recommendations and the basic mechanics (with some resources on how to advise a mother who's having trouble).

There's a lot of misinformation swimming around out there and some of it comes from ill-informed medical professionals. My SIL was told, by her doctor, that she only needed to bf for 3 weeks because there's no benefit (as in get the immune system benefits) beyond that. I nearly fell off my chair when I heard that, but I wasn't totally surprised because this is the same hospital where the head midwife told me I had to stop rubbing my belly because it could start contractions and that may have caused my pain. Went home and my OB told me that it was just Braxton Hicks. lol

Cathy - posted on 09/15/2011

No vouchers, samples, advertising allowed for any of the first stage formulas in the UK. I don't think there's much difference in UK v US breastfeeding rates by the 6 month mark.

Susanne - posted on 09/15/2011

@Sherri I understand its your opinion and i respect that entirely but why stop at 6 months? What is it about that age that makes you decide they dont need breastmilk anymore?

Toni - posted on 09/15/2011

Like Sarah said they can't advertise baby formula here in the UK, the nurses and doctors can't even recommend a baby formula if you ask for guidance in my local hospital (I don't know if it'sthe same in other hospitals, I only know this because my friend hadtwins who needed top ups and they told her they wasn't allowed to influence her choice). I have never seen any vouchers for baby formula either (only follow on milk).

The lack of guidance and help in the UK Didn't affect us when we come to buy formula for ethan, we just tried a formula then another because that didn't work for Ethan - but most people I know ff so they gave us recommendations.

Karla - posted on 09/15/2011

Just answering the OP w/o reading the posts... I would think "Too bad she's not breastfeeding." But that would be with the full knowledge that it may or may not be a choice and that for some it's physically or emotionally not possible, and for others they just don't have a good support system in place. No judgment from me, honestly none.

Sarah - posted on 09/15/2011

I don't think they're allowed to give samples of baby formula here in the UK, although there may be money off vouchers.
They're not allowed to advertise baby formula here either.......only follow on milk.

Personally, I really don't think that a teeny free sample is going sway many women......we're bombarded with advertising ALL the time......doesn't mean we all rush out to buy it! Especially when it's our kids that are concerned.

It's not like if they got rid of all the advertising people would suddenly forget that formula is available.

I honestly don't think that many women are going to base the decision to breastfeed or not on what they receive at the hospital, it's kind of insulting to think that people would think that to be honest......as I've said before, the decision to bottle feed isn't usually something that's decided on a whim or because you fancy the look of a free sample!

Sapphire - posted on 09/14/2011

"On the flip side, do you feel that the formula companies are pushing their products too hard by providing samples of formula in take home bags from the hospital, providing advertisements in doctors' offices and clinics, etc? "

I can only speak from my own personal experience, but I am grateful that the pediatrician provided me with the Enfamil Soy at my son's 4 month check up. I was struggling to produce milk, my son was losing weight, hubby & I were at odds with formula since I didn't want to fail as a mother, and I then finally agreed to start using formula. My sister gave me the ready to feed regular formula. My son didn;t take to it well. And he was still small at 4 months, only around 12-13 pounds. So at the 4 month old check up I was grateful for the full can size sample. As far as too much of the pushing and advertising, the diaper bag full when you leave the hospital? Free checks and samples,? Yes, I do feel it was overboard and ridiculous. But a mother is not required to accept those products. I know several mothers who declined and no hurt feelings. Anything that came in the mail I offered for free to other moms. Just like all the junk mail of offers and ads I dislike, they can simply go in the trash. You don't like those offers of formula? Then pass it on to a mother in need, or food bank.

Rebecca - posted on 09/14/2011

As to the OP, I don't give it a second thought. I'm more likely to judge if the kid is of the age where solids are new and they are sucking on McD's fries or something.



Still, even with that, I'm more likely to notice if the kid has a cute pair of shoes or big brown eyes.

Kate CP - posted on 09/14/2011

Okay, so a majority is saying that they feel breastfeeding is sort of being shoved down new moms' throats and they are made to feel like neglectful mothers if they formula feed.

On the flip side, do you feel that the formula companies are pushing their products too hard by providing samples of formula in take home bags from the hospital, providing advertisements in doctors' offices and clinics, etc?

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/14/2011

Same with smoking parents, it's their right to ruin their body but by using their right around their kids they are abusing their kids right to breathe clean air and not ruin their body....

Minnie - posted on 09/14/2011

That's why I said it's blurry. I support women's reproductive rights- I support a woman's right to choose not to breastfeed.



But at the same time, interestingly enough, I still believe that it's a baby's right to breastfeed.



It sure is difficult when the rights of two different parties are so intertwined. Like abortion, or method of birthing.

Julianne - posted on 09/14/2011

It is a babies right to the best chance possible at a healthy life, breastfeeding falls into that category. The health benefits are so high, it compromises the babies health to choose not to. Its like saying its not a childs right to healthy foods and just choose to feed them junk food all the time. It puts them at a greater risk for illness.

Sherri - posted on 09/14/2011

@Lisa it is a right for mom to decide to breastfeed or bottle feed but it is not a right for a baby to breastfeed it is only a right for a baby to be fed. Whichever way the mother deems fit.

There is positively no right or wrong to breastfeeding or formula feeding.

Sherri - posted on 09/14/2011

@Jodi I am fine with WHO recommendations but it doesn't mean they are right for me or my family. Also they are just that recommendations not laws.



When I say it is my opinion, means it my opinion for MY family and my family only not for anyone else.



@Laura nope I don't pump from that time on I will switch 100% to formula by 6mo's. Also I will not be exclusively breastfeeding anyways even from the very beginning because I will be pumping as well as breastfeeding directly so that when I go to the gym I can leave the baby and my husband can feed him by bottle.

Minnie - posted on 09/14/2011

My opinion is that it is a baby's right to be breastfed.

But here we get into the subjective because the lines are quite blurry as to what is a right and what isn't.

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/14/2011

I guess she could theoretically pump and give it in a cup for the remaining 18 months.........but that's alot of work IMO!

Jodi - posted on 09/14/2011

So obviously you don't advocate WHO recommendations Sherri.......

Sherri - posted on 09/14/2011

@Susanne that is my opinion as to when they are too old to breastfeed any longer and can go straight to a sippy cup at that point.

@Ella it isn't a babies right to breastfeed. It is however, a right for a baby to be fed. Big difference!!

Susanne - posted on 09/14/2011

Sherri i know its none of my business but why is your limit 6 months?

Liz - posted on 09/14/2011

Zero thoughts. When my son was under 6mo, I was still extremely self-conscious about public breastfeeding (because I would spray everywhere), so I would bring expressed milk when we went out.



It could be pumped milk, it could be formula (as a supplement), it could be formula all the time -- I don't really care about any individual woman who's formula-feeding for whatever reason, though the overall numbers depress me.



I do have a strange prejudice though -- when I'm reading forums like CoM, I get kind of grossed out when I read stuff like "My baby gets 8oz every 3 hours and eats 3 stage 2 jars a day."



I know that's weird on my part, and I'm not sure why I feel that way. I guess because I breastfeed on demand and follow baby-led solids, I'm not used to such clinical-sounding descriptions.



Sometimes people even include brand names, which makes it even more strange-sounding to me. Like, "My baby drinks 3oz Gerber Garden Juice 3 times a day." (Is that, like, the Cristal of baby juice?)

Sapphire - posted on 09/14/2011

" I feel sad when a baby's rights to be breast fed are taken away,"

Wow! Judgemental?! A baby has a right to be fed. Period. If "we as a society want to increase breastfeeding" then these are the attitudes that lack support, degrade a mother's choice, and turn mother's away from nursing.

Ella - posted on 09/13/2011

but at the same time i hated people shaking thier heads at me for bottle feeding when I had a genuine reason my baby couldn't be breast fed more then 2 weeks, because the poor kid was hungry so I wouldn't ever want a mother to leave her baby starving, so I do try to remember theres genuine reasons. Im proud to be breast feeding my 1 yr old now I love it so very much

Ella - posted on 09/13/2011

I feel sad for the baby and probably the same thoughts you have. I feel sad when a baby's rights to be breast fed are taken away, but I try my hardest to hope theres a genuine reason.

Tyrae - posted on 09/13/2011

"Ew formula tastes nasty" would be my first thought lol

Susanne - posted on 09/13/2011

Id be to busy looking to see what pushchair she has and much more likely to judge her on that lol.

Sherri - posted on 09/13/2011

Exactly or even if it isn't harmful, it still isn't great for them.

Stifler's - posted on 09/13/2011

There are people who annoy me with the "don't pick the baby up you'll spoil them". Their kid is wailing and they're doing nothing and they're like "HE NEEDS TOG ET USED TO NOT BEING HELD"and get shitty if anyone else says anything or picks them up. It's not just one operson it's heaps.

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/13/2011

Yeah half of me was disgusted and the other half was sad and wished I could go and give her some book or some pamphlet so she could learn what not to do! I mean it's rare that a mom knowingly does something harmful to her child, most moms want the best for their babies! But if they aren't properly taught they could unknowingly do harmful things.

Sherri - posted on 09/13/2011

That I guess is exactly my point Laura. You can judge but maybe they truly don't know better??

I know with my first he was eating so much formula by 3mo's they put my son on solids at yes 12wks. So he would have finished an 8oz bottle without even batting an eye at it, no matter what was in it. Since he was having 7 8oz bottles of formula a day already by 3mo's.

Is that a great excuse NO but we have all made mistakes. Did I know that it was such a taboo thing to prop a bottle NO so yes I did it. Did I know it was such a taboo thing to push juice on them as an infant nope. You truly learn as you go and somethings that are common sense for one parent just aren't for another.

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/13/2011

I can understand if you're busy propping but this lady was just standing there talking! So she could have very easily been holding the baby.

And with the apple juice I think it was mostly the young age of the baby, not good head control so I doubt it was over 3 months, and the bottle was a full 8 ounces. That's just seriously too much IMO, I hope they didn't coerce the baby to finish it all....

Oh and I totally know the 'know better do better' stuff that's what I remind myself about erics circ. And his first meal being formula :/. And about not holding him for 5 hours because I thought I couldn't if they didn't offer. Man, lots of things I could have done better! Trying to force feed cereal at 6 months.....fitting his signals and not cosleeping. I could go on but that enough guilt for now :)

Sherri - posted on 09/13/2011

I have to say before I knew better. I started my older two kids on juice by 4mo's. But you know better you do better.

Also on occasion I will be honest when I am extremely busy etc. especially with multiple kids, doing daycare for others, I have been known from time to time to prop a bottle. I actually don't have a problem with it as long as they are not a complete newborn but by 4mo's ya I was guilty of it. Certainly not all the time but when they were starving and I was being pulled in a million direction yup I did.

Stifler's - posted on 09/13/2011

No goth chick with apple juice

Laura Zoey - posted on 09/13/2011

Who me? :/