Gardasil- any moms plan on vaccinating their children with this?

Sara - posted on 01/01/2011

But it is a debate forum...we tend to debate when someone with an opposing viewpoint comes in. Don't take it personally, we like having people with different perspectives in the group...I think some of the hostility may come from some of your comments about members comprehension levels and communication of ideas. Generally, we frown on personal attacks in this forum.

Krista - posted on 01/01/2011

:B

Charlie - posted on 01/01/2011

0_o

Erin - posted on 01/01/2011

Krista I think you should hand back your Communications degree

:-p

Mother - posted on 01/01/2011

Well Krista at least you've assumed your position.

The question posed to the group was would you vaccinate for this and why or why not. I answered the question......just like everyone else.

Mother - posted on 01/01/2011

I have....you just missed it. Both sides of the family have had serious reactions.

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

I would choose to vaccinate my child and protect them from diseases. I don't get your point.

Krista - posted on 01/01/2011

Everyone knows how I feel but I have not told anyone to not vaccinate.

Of course you haven't told anybody to not vaccinate.

You've only disparaged vaccines, implied that they cause encephalitis, completely dismissed every study out there that proves their efficacy, and said that those of us who vaccinate are offering our children up as sacrificial lambs.

Silly me. How on EARTH could I have construed any of that to mean that you were telling people to not vaccinate?

Bad Krista! Bad, bad Krista!

/goes and sits in corner with dunce cap on head

Sara - posted on 01/01/2011

That's a nice argument and all, and I think you're right that every woman here -- if forced to chose -- would chose her own child. I just don't happen to think, as many of us here, that vaccinations fall into that category of choices. Vaccinations are not just a personal choice, that's the problem. They have an impact on people outside of one's own family. So, it's not like eating organic or chosing not to give your child antibiotics or breastfeeding or the scores of other things that are personal choices as a parent. If there's no medical reason for someone to not be vaccinated, I just think it's irresponsible as a parent, and a member of society, to chose NOT to vaccinate. You're not just playing russian roulette with your own family's health.

Krista - posted on 01/01/2011

Yeah, see that's the problem, Kelly. You're depending on the rest of us mothers who DO vaccinate in order to keep your child from contracting goodness-knows-what. However, as more parents buy into this folly, we will fall short of the herd immunity threshold for more and more diseases.

In other words, by being so stridently anti-vaccination, you and your ilk are contributing to the very real risk that our kids AND yours will fall prey to things like whooping cough and smallpox.

Hence, by being such an outspoken advocate against vaccinations, you are actually INCREASING your own child's risk.

As the wise Canadian woman once sang, "Isn't it ironic?"

Charlie - posted on 01/01/2011

Wow , way to overexaggerate the debate Kelly .

OBVIOUSLY you are only worried about your family and that is the difference between an unvaxer and a vaccinator , We think of the community , we weigh the risk and benifits , the chance my child has a negative outcome from vaccines is very , very low , the chance my unvaccinated child is responsible for putting another child at risk of death or diasbility is high , to be honest I think it is selfish .

So no you are not just like us we did not choose our kids over another because propaganda got to us .

Katherine - posted on 01/01/2011

You haven't really said WHY though. I mean there is evidence of the chemicals in vaccines not being enough to hurt you, and yet you refudiate it.
I totally respect you are ant-vax, I'm just wondering what your BIGGEST concern is.


YES, yes I finally used the word.

Mother - posted on 01/01/2011

"well, that DOES tend to come across as a fairly strong advisory to NOT vaccinate your child. " -- Odd, almost every member in here said the ads for gardasil were not misleading but that this was how the public perceived it. That seems appropriate right now. I have never pretended to be in favour of vaccines. Everyone knows how I feel but I have not told anyone to not vaccinate. So I guess its not language skills that need working on but rather your comprehension skills.

Mother - posted on 01/01/2011

We are all Parents trying our very best to keep our babies healthy and happy and to do whats right for the betterment of our own. If you had to make a choice over your child or mine.....you would pick yours every time. So you can get mad, you can quibble this and that, you can throw a tantrum, you can cuss your ever loving head off and you can cry until you're blue in the face while screaming about the risks to the rest of the population. The only risk I'm worried about is mine and my family's. Just like you....I would pick my child over yours EVERY TIME.

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

Any reactions I heard about to Gardasil weren't adverse.

Rosie - posted on 01/01/2011

i'd still like to know why no anti-vaxxer has ever answered why they'll do all of the other risky things in life that have no benefit to their life or other peoples life, but still choose not to take the small risk of vaccinating?

Katherine - posted on 01/01/2011

Kelly what is your biggest fear with vaccinations?

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

fucking lmao at krista bahahahaha

Krista - posted on 01/01/2011

I have never told ANYONE to not vaccinate. So that is a blatant lie. I have said...if you so choose to offer up your kids as sacrificial lambs, all the power to you but I won't.

Gee, Kelly, you may need to work on your language skills and how you express things, then. Because to most listeners, telling moms that vaccination = offering up their kids as sacrificial lambs...well, that DOES tend to come across as a fairly strong advisory to NOT vaccinate your child.

It would be like if I called circumcision "unnecessary and unforgivable mutilation" and posted all kinds of information advising against it, but then got all offended when people read it as my saying that nobody should circumcise their child.

In other words: you never told anyone not to vaccinate? Bull-pockey.

Rosie - posted on 01/01/2011

my mother works at that hospital katherine and she was mandated to have a flu shot, weird...

Kate CP - posted on 01/01/2011

""Psuedo immunity" is a funny phrase. That means "false immunity". " -- you knows what else is funny, pseudo also means ARTIFICIAL!!!!!!!!!!! As in not a natural form of immunity.

There is no such thing as artificial immunity. Either you're immune or you're not.

Rebecca - posted on 01/01/2011

As a fellow person who has a chronic disease that effects her immune system....I echo the thoughts here. Although, I feel you should be able to do what you want to your own kids, it's hard to hear people spouting misinformation. I know there is a lot of it out there, when I began research on it for my own child I got very stressed. It seemed everyone was very mad and scared on the internet on both sides. However, speaking to my docs and to my dear friend's husband who is a scientist....I got some straight answers and vac'd my daughter.

It's difficult to hear about the rise of diseases that no longer affected the rest of the developed world any longer, like polio because someone got scared (not because they had a history of family reaction to vacs, just reacted to misinformation). My mother had a cousin, close as a brother, who had polio. The poor man. This is something she never thought she'd see again.

Shauna - posted on 01/01/2011

this seemed appropriate right now.

Mother - posted on 01/01/2011

First and foremost....I have never told ANYONE to not vaccinate. So that is a blatant lie. I have said...if you so choose to offer up your kids as sacrificial lambs, all the power to you but I won't.

""Psuedo immunity" is a funny phrase. That means "false immunity". " -- you knows what else is funny, pseudo also means ARTIFICIAL!!!!!!!!!!! As in not a natural form of immunity.

"Some people can't eat peanuts because of reactions...does that mean we should ban peanut butter? More people have anaphylactic reactions to peanuts than vaccines. But no one is suing Jiff. Huh...funny. " -- what a great example you've posted. You're right that people have serious reactions to peanuts. You're also right in saying people aren't suing Jiff. However those same people AREN"T EATING THE PEANUT BUTTER. Just like people aren't submitting to vaccines.

Katherine - posted on 01/01/2011

Uh.....hmmmm
Fact or fiction I ask you?

Krista - posted on 01/01/2011

But Katherine, the CDC are part of a shadowy cabal financed by Eli Lily! You can't trust them!

At least, that's what "HappeeMom" over at www.vacceensrevil.blogspot.com said, and she has all SORTS of proof!

Katherine - posted on 01/01/2011

Straight from the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccine...

Katherine - posted on 01/01/2011

The benefits outweigh the risks, it's that freaking simple. Statistically VERY few children have dies from vaccinations, and if they have it was because of an unknown allergic reaction.

*runs to find stats*

Krista - posted on 01/01/2011

Gaaah! Ooga blah pppffffftttt!

/incomprehensible garble due to lack of language skills.

Natasha - posted on 01/01/2011

Krista, you just said everything that I have been trying to put into words, but ws too frusterated to. I have a very low immune system, and therefore get my shots every year, whether I feel like it or not.

I get pissed off when I hear that people aren't going to vaccinate thier children becaue they read somewhere something that said it might be bad for thier kids. Well, if that's your approach to life, why do you let your children leave the house? They might get hit by a car, or fall down and scratch thier knees, or step in a puddle... all of these things can harm your child, but you still take the "risk" of letting your child out of your sight. If you are choosing not to vaccinate your child for a non-medical reason, then you are putting OTHER people's children at risk. What gives you the right to do that?

Sara - posted on 01/01/2011

And to piggyback with Krista here, you also have to think about people who do get vaccinated, but for whatever reason fail to build immunity to diseases. They are a vulnerable population as well, and they benefit from herd immunity, which requires a significant portion of the population to be vaccinated. When you go to places like San Diego or Boulder, Colorado where less people vaccinate and thus you have the outbreak of diseases such as whooping cough, you can see how damaging it is to fall below the threshold for herd immunity and the damage it can cause.

Krista - posted on 01/01/2011

I am not putting other children at risk. If your vaccines are working so well for you then what do you have to worry about. What do you mean by...kids who are unable to to be vaccinated?

I am talking about children who are too young to be vaccinated.

I am talking about kids who have a family history of severe allergy to the vaccines.

If you are unable to vaccinate your own kids due to a history of severe reactions, then I have no quibble with that.

What I DO have a quibble with is people who brush off the very real dangers posed by diseases like whooping cough -- a disease that was almost unheard-of, but is now making a resurgence and is mutating into new strains, putting all of us at risk.

What I DO have a quibble with is when people talk about diseases like measles and mumps as though they are no big deal and just a normal rite of childhood. Mumps can render boys infertile. Measles can kill.

What I DO have a quibble with is people who will take the word of some unlicensed, patchouli-scented crackpot on the internet as gospel, but will claim that the CDC, the WHO, the APA, and every other reputable medical body out there is just a bunch of big fat liars, being bought off by Big Pharma.

I have a great big quibble when I hear of newborns being hospitalized for diseases that shouldn't be going around in the first place, and that WOULDN'T have been going around were it not for people spreading ignorance as fast as their fingers can type.

We have NO idea how lucky we are to have vaccines. And instead of being thankful for living in a time when we don't have to worry about our kids getting polio, we have people yammering all kinds of foolishness about how Big Pharma is out to poison us all.

You asked how I would feel if my child had been injured or died from a vaccination? Obviously I can't know, as that's not happened to me. But I am a rational person, and even if I chose to eschew vaccinations for my other children (which would be highly unlikely), I most certainly would not make a blanket statement that NO children should be vaccinated.

I know that everything I wrote above will probably be difficult for you to understand, due to my obvious lack of language skills. Goodness knows I'm known for that around here -- why, on a daily basis, the ladies here say, "Krista, I have no idea what it is that you are trying to say, you incomprehensible ninny! Why don't you just go back to your finger paints, already?"

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

yeah that's the one!

Kate CP - posted on 01/01/2011

Emma: You're talking about a titer test. That is a blood test to see how many antibodies your body is still producing for any given infectious agent.

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

Oh we had to have our T-levels done or something, I can't remember and if they weren't up we had to have a booster.

Kate CP - posted on 01/01/2011

o.O

You have absolutely no idea how the immune system works, do you? "Psuedo immunity" is a funny phrase. That means "false immunity". There are some people this does happen to...and their titer scores will reflect it. Some people just cannot build an immunity to things regardless of how they are exposed to it. THAT is a false immunity. Not a vaccine. The way the human immune system works is a fascinating thing. When a person is exposed to an infectious agent of any kind, be it a fungus, a bacteria, or a virus, the immune system automatically (or it should, any way) kick into gear. This means that it goes about producing special antibodies marked just for destroying that specific infectious agent. When all traces of that infectious agent are destroyed the body continues to make those same antibodies in smaller numbers for a certain amount of time. How long? Depends on the person and the body. An acquired immunity is when an infectious agent is introduced to the system (either via natural infection or a vaccine) and is fought off by the marked antibodies. Regardless of how a person acquires the immunity it still has a limited shelf life in the body (depending on the infectious agent).

You want to know WHY I get so angry about people who don't vaccinate for no reason other than they're scared? Because I have an immune disorder. I was hospitalized for a common cold when I was 15. I was hospitalized when I was 16 because the natural flora and fauna living in my gut decided to have a little party. I nearly died from a cat bite infection in 2004. I have no immune system to speak of, really. Naturally boosting the immune system is a bunch of bullshit. (And yes, I will curse, thank you very much. I'm an adult and I feel like fucking cursing. Deal with it.) The only way to naturally boost the immune system is...to get sick. That's right, you have to get sick to make your body produce more white cells. There is no other way to boost the immune system into production unless you use some serious drugs (which I have had to use in the past) to coax your body into producing more cells. That's why you get all achy whenever you're sick: your body is making more cells and that process can hurt.

I was hospitalized with other kids, too, who had cancer. These kids weren't hospitalized because of the cancer but because they got sick and had no immune system to fight off infection. Babies who are too young for their complete immunizations are also frequently hospitalized because of infections. And unless Mom is up to date on her boosters, breast feeding won't help that baby be immune to vaccine-preventable disease.

I understand, Kelly, that YOU cannot vaccinate your kids. Fine, whatever, that's your situation. But to sit there and spout off that every one shouldn't vaccinate because of these fear tactics (yes, anti-vaxxers CONSTANTLY rely on fear tactics just like the pro-vaccine community. You've done it yourself in this very thread) is irresponsible, mislead, and just wrong. Vaccines were created to save lives, not destroy them. Some people can't have vaccines because of reactions. Some people can't eat peanuts because of reactions...does that mean we should ban peanut butter? More people have anaphylactic reactions to peanuts than vaccines. But no one is suing Jiff. Huh...funny.

Now, when something is introduced to the body via a vaccine, what happens to it? It's injected into the soft tissues and blood of a body. Those are dispersed throughout the body and eventually make their way to the kidneys and liver.

When some one eats something, what happens? Why, it gets broken down within the soft tissues of the stomach and intestines and introduced to the blood stream...which is eventually FILTERED THROUGH THE KIDNEYS AND THE LIVER.

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

yeah we had to sign a waiver to do work placement at a hospital saying that if we contract anything it's our own fault if we don't have immunity to hep b and c.

Katherine - posted on 01/01/2011

They make you sign a waiver....

Katherine - posted on 01/01/2011

I just researched a tad and apparently it's NOT mandatory to be vaccinated.
http://thegazette.com/2009/11/02/rulings...

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

they do but if you get hep b they aren't responsible. or aids or anything else you probably won't get work cover or anything.

Rosie - posted on 01/01/2011

i'm curious as to what hospital would allow someone who isn't vaccinated to work there, or do you vaccinate yourself, just not your kids?

Charlie - posted on 01/01/2011

"until you've held an vaccine injured child.......you couldn't fathom REAL ANGER."

I've watched a four year old girl die from a preventable disease , yeah I was Angry , angry their country didn't have the money to provide enough vaccines to stop this unneccesary death , and before we start assuming things YES they have clean living conditions , YES they have clean water , YES they nutritional food what they lack as a country is money , sad but true people take our good health and immunty for granted which is sad , there are always casuaties in medicine and it is tragic but far less have adverse effects from vaccines than the deaths that would occur if they were not used at all , personally I wouldn't mind if all the unvaxed moved to an island away from general population so that those who truely cannot get vaccinated can have some kind of protection from their decision .

Stifler's - posted on 01/01/2011

There is a non-vax community? God help us all.

Mother - posted on 01/01/2011

" Kids are getting things like pertussis even after being fully vaccinated because of the huge movement to NOT vaccinate: the strains are mutating." Bull puckey. My daughter did not contract the illness while 7 of her counterparts all did. If it was because of the non-vax children then they too would become ill. Common sense. The strains are mutating because why?? Because people aren't taking them?? Bull pucky again. The strains are mutating because thats what strains do to survive. Also, the strains used in vaccines is not exactly as in nature. When you combine the lab made strain to the wild strain.....what do you get.... A NEW STRAIN.



Our viruses are mutating and becoming immune because of OVER USE of antibiotics as well......not from under use.



"get their booster shots as adults. " -- ah-ha....a great point. did you know that less then 2% of young adults to the elderly are NOT kept up on vaccines. So much for your herd immunity theory. Did you know herd immunity is a phrase coined by the NONVAX community. Its actually about natural immunity NOT pseudo false immunity.



"People with no family history of reactions and are just not giving vaccines because they bought all the frickin' hype (Thank you, Jenny McCarthy) drive me batty." -- actually this movement was around LONNNNNNNNNNG before the infamous JennyM but some people are just slow at catching up.



"Sorry, it sucks to be you and to have kids who can't be vaccinated, but that doesn't mean that kids who CAN be vaccinated should be put at risk because of it." -- actually sucks to me you. You are the one kicking up all the fuss. ANNNNNNNNNND no matter how angry you get our numbers are increasing 3 fold.



"The reason why there is a federal fund for "vaccine injured patients" is so that way the small group of people who vaccinated and had reactions can get compensation without bankrupting the companies who make the vaccines that are safe for 98% of the population. This is also a "duh" statement." -- yes you're right. This truly is a DUH statement considering the pharmaceutical companies HAVE IMMUNITY from litigation. So they can continue to injure and kill people with no repercussions.



"IF I had familial history of vaccine reactions you can bet your ass I would either do an altered schedule or find a way to skip vaccines or SOMETHING to make sure my kids are safe. If that meant no vaccines then I guess I'd do no vaccines. " -- Thank you.....most people who don't vaccinate fall into this category. However I wouldn't judge a new mother or father for not wanting to find out.



You'd best re-open that Basic biology book then because there is a HUGE difference.

Kate CP - posted on 01/01/2011

Okay, I can't shut up any more.

1. Kids are getting things like pertussis even after being fully vaccinated because of the huge movement to NOT vaccinate: the strains are mutating. There are now more than ONE strain of pertussis floating around. They are becoming antibiotic resistant and people are still refusing to vaccinate their kids for it or get their booster shots as adults.
2. A person who has a family history of vaccine reaction OBVIOUSLY should be much more cautious about vaccinating their kids. This is kind of a "duh" statement to me. People with no family history of reactions and are just not giving vaccines because they bought all the frickin' hype (Thank you, Jenny McCarthy) drive me batty.
3. Saying that vaccines should be recalled is ludicrous. For a majority of the population the benefits FAR outweigh the risks and putting more people's lives at danger because of a small group of people is NOT in the public's best interest. Sorry, it sucks to be you and to have kids who can't be vaccinated, but that doesn't mean that kids who CAN be vaccinated should be put at risk because of it.
4. The reason why there is a federal fund for "vaccine injured patients" is so that way the small group of people who vaccinated and had reactions can get compensation without bankrupting the companies who make the vaccines that are safe for 98% of the population. This is also a "duh" statement.

I vaccinate my kids, I'm up to date on my shots (except gardasil because I'm not able to get it at this point) and I encourage my entire family to get their boosters as well because I love my family. My family has had no history of vaccine reactions on either side (including my husband's side) so I feel confident that my kids are not in a risk group for vaccine reactions. IF I had familial history of vaccine reactions you can bet your ass I would either do an altered schedule or find a way to skip vaccines or SOMETHING to make sure my kids are safe. If that meant no vaccines then I guess I'd do no vaccines.

Saying that all vaccines are dangerous for all kids in all circumstances because of the additives in them is just blatant propaganda. It's not true. Also, the bit about "eating it makes it okay" is crap. Your body processes everything through the kidneys and liver. Whether you eat it or it's introduced directly to your blood stream via a shot it's GOING to be filtered through your kidneys and liver and tossed out with the rest of the waist in your system. This is called basic biology.

Mother - posted on 01/01/2011

Thanks for the reply Kati. I actually knew there are many people in this world who can't be vaccinated. Actually we almost lost my father because of it. Actually both sides of my daughters family have reacted to vaccines. So forgive me for not taking that chance. I have held children who have contracted Whooping cough and it was a horrible ordeal. My niece and nephew actually and they were fully vaccinated. My niece was hospitalized for ages. I'm not interested in comparing who has the worst horror story but I can tell you this....even tho so many MOTHERS on here laughed hysterically. Until you've held a child who has reacted, a child who will eventually die from the inflammation of their brain caused by the routine vaccines her parents so diligently kept up.....well there are somethings you just can't un-see. My daughter has had ONE shot in her whole life and she will receive no more unless SHE chooses to submit to it herself.

Its easy to talk about people when they aren't relevent to you. Its easy to say one in a million when your child was not that one in a million. That whole saying....it'll never happen soon becomes I didn't know and is spoken WAYYY to late. If it was a formula...or a toy...or car seat that had these very same percentages for injury and death it would have been pulled off the market immediately. Everyone here can offer up their children as sacrificial lambs for the greater good however I will not.

For the record. The child that died from encephalitis...it was a confirmed and documented case in the hospital I worked at. I'm sure the laughter would have been tears if it had been your precious child.

Kati, you've said its been proven for years and years that no harm comes to children from vaccinating. How do you know this? Considering there is a Vaccine Compensation fund for injured parties I think that statement is wrong. Considering that fund is 2-3 billion dollars in debt because of the payments made I'd say there is more to the story. And if the pharmaceuticals can admit right in there package inserts all the risks that have been documented then why is it so hard for parents??

Rosie - posted on 01/01/2011

does anybody have any information on studies they've done with boys for gardasil?

Rosie - posted on 01/01/2011

kelly yes there are other people in this world who can't get vaccinations, along with those who are too young to get them. i'd beg for you to hold a child with whooping cough, or polio knowing you could've prevented it with a vaccine that has been proven FOR YEARS UPON YEARS to NOT cause harm to people. AND almost wipe out diseases that were once so common people had waaaay more children because they knew at least one of them was going to die from them.



gardasil has not been proven to cause any death or any other sickness. of the people that have died and had autopsies it showed they died of illicit drug use, or diabetes -things having nothing to do with this vaccine.

a lady at work who hasn't vaccinated her kid just took her 15 year old daughter home from the hospital with guillen barre syndrome. she is slowly regaining the use of her legs after being paralyzed for nearly 2 months. not ONCE has this girl been vaccinated. it happens sporatically throughout the general population. shit happens, sometimes shit happens after you get a vaccination. would've happened anyway.

LaCi - posted on 01/01/2011

My son is only 2, when he's around 12-13 I'll let him decide whether he would like to be vaccinated, wait, or not do it.

Lindsay - posted on 01/01/2011

******MOD WARNING*****

Back on topic ladies! No more back and forth. Move on.

Lindsay DM Mod