God

Isobel - posted on 05/27/2011

5!!!

Dana - posted on 05/27/2011

Come on, Laura. A truly intelligent leader could suck more than 4 members into their cult! :P

Shelley - posted on 05/27/2011

I laughed at how you put the question; ".. who out there believes in a mystical magical man in the sky, and if you don't why". Shouldn't it rather be "if you DO, why". It is a rather illogical thing to believe in after all. And another thing that struck me, of course, is you saying "God", not the god of the Christians (from you assuming this is the only god, I assume you are Christian), or the Muslims etc. Just something I wanted to point out about your way of thinking :)

I guess you can gather I do not believe in a god of any sorts. I was raised Christian, but started asking questions when I was nine - funny enough i remember clearly my first thoughts of "why do i believe this?". I am extremely anti religion but for a few reasons. Other peoples beliefs affect me and my family, and I resent that. I live in South Africa where the majority of the population is Christian, and it is assumed that everyone has this set of beliefs. They therefore have christian teachings in my eight year old's school, in my workplace people shove it down my throat, for goodness sake even my biological mother (I was adopted) was trying to shove that crap down my little boy's throat behind my back (!) after I expressly forbid her. I think that teaching a child a belief as FACT is cruel to the child - they are too young to question anything and take everything in as the truth, and what is taught is never easily untaught, it will always be with that person, who has to work very hard to unlearn the untruths, and most of the time doesn't get to the point of realising their entire paradigm is tainted with lies to begin to attempt to fix this and form opinions of their own.

I believe that most religions are evil. Literally evil. They teach elitism, that we are worthless sinners and they take the power and the responsibility away from each person for their lives and their success. Religions are very sexist and anti women, anti anything outside of the alpha male figure. They also teach people to consider all the creatures of the earth (plants etc included) as theirs to exploit and harm as they see fit.

So even if I didn't consider the entire thing is mythology that was told to people as fact for the sole purpose of control, and even if the bible was believable as inspired by god (which it clearly is not, filled with contradictions as it is) I would not worship a diety that stands for death and destruction, hate, elitism and a dozen other negative concepts. In fact I would tell him he is a sadistic pig.

Other things I considered that brought me to my conclusions; there were a number of much older dieties that were born of virgins, walked on water etc, were crucified, died and were resurrected in three days. Goodness I could go on forever about this stuff, but it isn't needed - I am not here to convince others, but to state my position :)

I think like Laura; I believe everything is made of energy (as is proven) and we are all connected. whether this energy is sentient is where I did alot of thinking and research. I believe it is - not a father figure in the sky that takes individual attention, rather an energy that flows (hard to explain) and has some type of pattern. I believe that prayer, magickal rituals (same thing people) etc are our way of trying to influence the flow of things, lean the outcome in a direction. I also believe in reincarnation, as energy doesn't die but it changes.

My beliefs are alot more intricate than that, but once again I should just stop rambling, as the question has been answered. :) Offense not intended, but my position on this is very clear - nothing against specific people, I am sure you understand (maybe my biological mother haha)

Isobel - posted on 05/27/2011

There are only 4 really intelligent people in the world to be honest...and they all belong to a Church That Has Yet To Be Named...In fact...that might be what I call it permanently. ;P

Jenni - posted on 05/27/2011

I agree Dana.... there are just as many stupid people who don't believe as those who do. lol ;)

And just as many intelligent people on both sides.



I LOVE Lisa's understanding on the Bible itself. Of it's original text. She's always very imformative on common misconceptions of the book itself.



It's when people use religion to promote biogtry, ignorance, pride, conformity, power, monetary gain, blind following that leads to infringements on others rights and crimes against humanity... where I get my knickers in knots.



I have issues with organised religion NOT people having spirituality. Spirituality is a GOOD thing! I have far less good things to say about organised religion and the atrocities it has the ability to influence. Of course I won't pack ALL organised religions into one box. However, the problems seem to occur when men follow other men blindly.

Krista - posted on 05/27/2011

I'm with you on that one Dana.

I don't think that people who believe in God are stupid. They can no more help believing than I can help NOT believing.

My only disdain are for those who refuse to view their belief as just that: a belief.

I don't care what faith (or non-faith) you are. If you are so lacking in humility as to insist that your belief is the factual way of things and that there is no possible way that you could be wrong, and you rely on all sorts of faulty and circular reasoning to "prove" that you are right, then THAT is when I will think of you as lacking in critical thinking skills.

Dana - posted on 05/27/2011

Oh and here we go back to people who believe are just stupid. Forget the fact that many intelligent people believe in God.



The fact of the matter is, you can believe in God and believe in evolution and believe that the bible is bs- all in one.



You can even go as far as to say, those who don't believe that there is a higher power are just as naive, small minded or ignorant as those who believe there is a higher power.



My bottom line, quit thinking you (a general everyone) know what there is or isn't. Fact is - we don't know one way or the other.

Cynthia - posted on 05/26/2011

i am too smart to believe. before i read the bible i did believe. i thought i felt it. but in reading the book i realized that there was no way i could believe. now i actually see things so differently. even if i did believe a lot of the thing the bible asked us to except is so awful and a lot of it cruel. i would be ashamed to say i believed that stuff.

Cynthia - posted on 05/26/2011

awesome question why does anyone believe in god? i dont get it....

Isobel - posted on 05/26/2011

In fact...logically...it makes WAY more sense not to believe...why DO you?

Isobel - posted on 05/26/2011

It's AS important as why DO you believe???

Kate CP - posted on 05/26/2011

"Just want to see who out there believes in God. and if you don't why."

Here's MY question:

Why do you care?

Cynthia - posted on 05/26/2011

you ever meet someone that believes in god, just in case. That was me for many years. now i simply dont believe. i do teach my son about god and i do think it is a good foundation for children to believe. but like santa and the easter bunny i just out grew the idea.

Stephanie - posted on 05/26/2011

Amanda- Please tell us how this man who rose from the dead is alive as youve said. How can this man be alive with no blood running through his veins, without his heart pumping and carrying oxygen to his organs?

No blood = No life

Do you realize that when a person is embalmed all blood is drained from their body and replaced with embalming fluid? Id like to meet this man. Where is he?

Isobel - posted on 05/26/2011

is that the link where they tell me that Adam and Eve lived at the same time as dinosaurs and that the T-rex had razor sharp teeth so that he could eat coconuts (cause the bible says that animals didn't eat flesh at that point in history?)

Amanda - posted on 05/26/2011

www.tomorrowsworld.org/booklets/the-bible-fact-or-fiction

Amanda - posted on 05/26/2011

nope. i live in good old North Carolina :)

Stephanie - posted on 05/26/2011

I'm not an athiest but I totally agree with that. : )

Jakki - posted on 05/26/2011

I really enjoy being an atheist!

When I see people tying themselves up in knots trying to explain why God lets tsunamis or tornadoes happen... I just think "they happened because of air temperature or earthquake due to tectonic movement or whatever"... and it is so much easier to live with.

Rosie - posted on 05/26/2011

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/hell.html

Minnie - posted on 05/26/2011

Thanks Laura...just to let you know, I didn't write the Book ;p Just paraphrasing what it says

See, that's where most western interpretations go wrong. Consider who it was written to, their perception of the world, the culture of the time, how their language operated...don't interpret it based on your own perception.

Minnie - posted on 05/26/2011

Hellfire and brimstone is a western interpretation. Not Hebrew.

Jodi - posted on 05/26/2011

Thanks Sara, I might try and find that one!! Summer is a long way off here, so I have time :P

Sara - posted on 05/26/2011

Jodi, you know what a really interesting read is? Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible where he left out all of the supernatural stuff, so it's basically a "Life and Times of Jesus" kind of thing. Very interesting to read in addition to the bible.

Jenni - posted on 05/26/2011

Actually it does.... it's all lake of fire and gnashing teeth, weeping and torment....
much like the Hell described by many ancient civilizations... Hades for one....
and all the other 'heathen' religions Christianity adopted its beliefs from...

Jodi - posted on 05/26/2011

You know, its been a long time since I read the Bible. Sections of it, yes, because sometimes Jayden needs some help with his RE homework.



Maybe I should borrow it from Jayden and read it again.....It will have to wait for the school holidays though, because he needs it at school. Perhaps it could become my summer reading material this summer.....



But I strongly suspect the Hell and fire and brimstone shit is a ploy to make sure you go to church. Apparently you can't be a real Christian if you don't belong to some form of organised religion.....was that covered in the Bible?

Rosie - posted on 05/26/2011

i've heard someone mention before that the bible never even describes hell, and i actually thought they were full of it. i was sure it did. after going through and reading things about that particular subject i've realized it doesn't. it's just something my pastor had said and i blindly followed. interesting.

Jenni - posted on 05/26/2011

Do they have rain in Hell? Or just fire and brimestone? I could really go for some fire and brimestone right now, I'll take that over this massive flooding we've been given.
Is flooding just an Old Testament thing? Or are we being punished for worshipping false ipods?
This sure feels like a punishment from God to me...

Turn or BURN!!!!!!

Disclaimer: No, this is not to poke fun at ALL Christians. Just the ones that like to tell me I am not entitled to my own beliefs and should conform to theirs... ie: turn or burn Christians.

Stephanie - posted on 05/26/2011

Haha! I used to live on the border of W.Va. and Ohio so I'm aloud to say that! :D Alot of really great people in that area but also alot of religious extremists and very closed minded people.

Dana - posted on 05/26/2011

Hey, don't go knocking West Virgina now! :P My dad's family is from there and they're not all religiously crazy!

Stephanie - posted on 05/26/2011

I just want to make it completely clear to everyone that not all people who believe in God think that their way is the ONLY way or that if you dont believe you will 'burn in hell'. I don't believe anything remotely close to that! I DON'T EVEN BELIEF IN A HELL!!! Would you burn your kids for disobeying you? It's these type of representations that makes non-believers think we're crazy! Why would someone want to worship or look up to this mean man in the sky who burn his children for all eternity for disobeying him? Imagine if a father on earth did that, would he be justified bc supposedly that's God's logic? My kid was a brat so I burned his little ass? Ridiculous! I wouldn't want anything to do with a 'God' like that. The God I know gives me comfort, strength and peace of mind. Praying helps me to focus, calms my scattered mind, and prioritize my life. It helps me to be a better mother. When I die, if there is nothing on the other side that's ok. My earthly belief in a higher power has been a positive influence in my life and greatly contributed to my happiness and serenity. I have had a VERY hard life, maybe I just need something to cling to, like a security blanket. If that's all it is, that's ok. It worked for me and helped guide me through this life.
I would NEVER try to impose my beliefs on another person and I would never tell another person that their stance is wrong or that they'll be 'punished' for having a mind of their own.

Live and let live. Embrace new ideas and learn from other people. Have an open mind and accept people for who they are. My bff of 23 years is agnostic and my brother is athiest. I have never once spoken against their beliefs. We share ideas and opinions and respect one another. That's what love is. Learn to love and respect other human beings rather than forcing / bullying a belief system on them with threats of violence and eternal damnation.

I don't know where I fit in. Christians seem to think I'm not Christian bc I don't believe that the bible is a book of prophecy for our time...I think it's more of a history book that has been translated over and over again, each time becoming less and less like the original book. And that I'm not Christian bc I don't believe in hell and painful physical punishment from God. So maybe I should just call myself a believer rather than having a title that can be misleading. I don't want to be grouped in with the ones who think nonconformity leads to eternal burning.

Amanda- Do you live in West Virginia??? That would explain alot.

Jodi - posted on 05/26/2011

God didn't write the book either.

Isobel - posted on 05/26/2011

Oh Heidi, you were doing so well there...right up until the end where you let us heathens know that we were going to burn.

I assure you we won't. Have a nice day.

Jaime - posted on 05/26/2011

I don't need to know anyone's God to know that I am human and capable of love, compassion and understanding. I don't need anyone's God to be revealed to me to know that I have free will...and more importantly the free will to choose what I do and do not believe in. If I'm going to hell, then I'm going there happy...but since hell is someone's idea of eternal damnation and not actually true...I'll be perfectly happy to die and be buried in the ground with no regrets about who I am and no worries about where I will go when I die. And just in case...I'll bring some marshmallows to toast on the way down :)

Rosie - posted on 05/26/2011

oh lord....

Jaime - posted on 05/26/2011

Amanda, how do you know that he was in the casket and someone isn't pulling your dick about it?

Krista - posted on 05/26/2011

Amanda, you do realize that you're going to have to provide a link to this, right?

If a man was declared medically dead, and was embalmed, and got up and started doing the jig and is now alive and well, then SURELY the media would have been alerted about this little development.

However, if you expect us to believe something THAT far-fetched, simply because you heard it at a revival meeting....

Amanda - posted on 05/26/2011

then why is the man that was in the casket alive today then???

Dana - posted on 05/26/2011

Mary, I couldn't agree more! That's why I stay away from these kinds of "debates" it's just one side insulting the other. All the while one side thinking they're superior to the other too.

Desiree - posted on 05/26/2011

God is a personal choice for each person. we all see him and relate to him differently. It doesn't matter whether I or anyone else believes or not. Its what in you that counts to the outside world.

Johnny - posted on 05/26/2011

I think when people are asked if they believe or do not believe that it is not difficult to remain in a pleasant conversation.

However, when people start listing WHY they don't believe, that's when the problems start. Inevitably, even if completely unintentional, the reasons for their belief or lack of belief may well offend the other side.

It is completely personal, but when I say that it is impossible for me to believe in god as presented by humans because I find then entire thing implausible and ridiculous, well, someone is obviously going to take that personally and find it offensive. I am not going out to attack their faith, but just to share my own rationale. But it still leads to dispute.

I think the same thing happens on the opposite side. If a believer lists one of their reasons for believing to be that following God is the only true path to a righteous life and that all those bad things, like drugs, crime, etc. stem from lack of belief, then yes, non-believers may find that offensive. Even if it is just that person's personal belief.

Our individual ways of thinking about our existence will threaten those of others. People can not help but take that so personally. It will always be a very adversarial conversation.

Gina - posted on 05/26/2011

Yes I believe, and my faith has brought me comfort so I will continue to believe.

Jenni - posted on 05/26/2011

No I don't.



Why?



Because it just doesn't seem plausible. I'm just not convinced there IS a God.



When I DID believe in God. I found myself constantly doubting the existance... at the same time I had also began to doubt the existance of Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. I attempted many times to renew my 'relationship with God' but I just couldn't get the logical side of my brain to stop questioning the validity of what I was being taught.



I don't believe the Christian God whispered to a bunch of men 2000-6000 years ago what he wanted of men. How a book that ancient could hold any validity or fact when it's based on the opinions/beliefs of an ancient people. When time and time again its claims are discredited by science and history.

I find the Bible a very fascinating read... but believing in the existance of a God based on ancient, discredited text is just not enough proof that one exists.



I don't believe that God breathed life into our world. There is only opinions/beliefs that God exists.

I believe that energy breathed life into this world.

There is proven evidence that energy exists and is what animates us.



It cannot be determined whether or not that energy has a consciencenous. The fact that we don't know points in neither direction. There is simply no evidence to support either statement. But there is evidence and logical thinking that greatly disputes that the energy is a conscience Christian God... or any man-made God.



I just don't think life is so cut and dry. "God" tells us how to behave ourselves and guides us like a parent figure. Gives us free will to decide but if we do 'sin' we can be forgiven as long as we believe in him. If we don't believe in him we will be punished infinitely but if we do believe in him we will be rewarded for an eternity.

I just don't understand how an all powerful, all knowing, all seeing God... would be so gun ho on punishing *his* people for an eternity for not believing in him. And rewarding believers for an eternity for believing in him.



I just see so many of the concepts in the Bible being human trains of thought from the culture of that time. Not that of an all powerful, all knowing, all seeing being.





Why do you believe He does exist?

Stephanie - posted on 05/26/2011

I agree, Mary. While I do believer in a creator, I would NEVER tell another person that I'm right and they're wrong, that they're going to burn in hell or anything like that. I dont even believe that a place like hell exists! There are so many different variations of Christianity. Very few people see things exacty the same way, but the common denominator is the belief in God and Jesus. Showing hate and disrespect to convince another person of your belief is counter productive. I'm all for 'live and let live'. Tolerance is key. Which reminds me, I need to respond to the church & state thread, lol.

Mary - posted on 05/26/2011

I just don't get why either belief or disbelief in "God" needs to be so adversarial. To me, this is such a personal issue, and really, the beliefs that an of you possess has absolutely no bearing on my own - unless I am so shaky in my stance that the opinions of others allow doubts to creep in. In that case, I may need to re-explore my own faith, or lack thereof.

I do, however, want to offer this observation. It seems that whenever the question of religious beliefs come up here, it ends up in some unkind, belittling, and derogatory comments from both ends of the spectrum.

One side says "If you don't believe in God, you are amoral, and doomed to burn in hell". The other side comes up with retorts that suggest the believers are unintelligent, non-intellectual fools that subscribe to fairy tales. IMO, both the believers and the non-believers are behaving in a rather immature, prejudiced, and rude fashion that doesn't speak highly for either "side" of this fence.

Barb - posted on 05/26/2011

I totally get that, Stephanie. Mom would wake up and say 'where am i?" and i would tell her, "you are at UCLA med center" and she would say "no, i don't think so, this is Paris Hilton's house" I'd just chuckle and say "okay"
and no, mom has never been a guest of Paris Hilton.

I also got her to quit smoking. She smoked for over 30 years. She woke up one time and said "is this the smoking section?" i said "Mom, you aren't a smoker. You don't smoke" She fell back asleep and 20 min later woke up and declared "i'm not a smoker!" rather indignantly like someone was suggesting she was and it pissed her off they were.

That was in 2006 and she hasn't smoked since.

Stephanie - posted on 05/26/2011

Barb- My Papaw did the same thing...we were in France and everything was 'French'. He would say 'Oh I love these French Pyjamas, this French food is so good, I love all of this fancy French furniture', etc. We were in Ohio, USA in an ICU, he was dying from COPD / Emphysema. He had never been to France....but he knew all about it and was very detailed in his descriptions. I played right along bc it made him happy. I didnt want to say 'No Papaw, we're at the hospital... You're body is giving out.' In those moments he was so happy. What purpose would it serve to correct him? Dying by systemic suffocation is miserable enough. I was so thankful for his hallucinations. Those moments took us BOTH out of that room and added much needed laughter to a sad situation.

Barb - posted on 05/26/2011

OMG Stephanie!! *hugs* you poor thing.. but i'm still laughing my ass off imagining your face when you heard that.

LadyJane, a couple of years ago my mom had a brain aneurism. It had burst and allowed blood to get onto her brain tissue, which ate some of it away. My mother, when she was conscience, asked me why we were in Paris Hilton's house. She described the room to me in detail, for her all the machines had faded away and been replaced with pink satin drapes and a pink lounge, a fireplace and some other things.

Now, i've never been a guest of Paris Hiltons, so i have no idea what her room looks like. But there was no way to convince my mom that she was NOT there. It was a fact that her body was at UCLA ICCU and her eyes were wide open and talking to me. And it's a fact because it's a matter of record. It is not a fact that she was in Paris' house just because she was able to describe something most of us haven't seen.

and Amanda, where is embalmed guy now? (cleaning my shotgun)

Stephanie - posted on 05/26/2011

They also sometimes "breathe". I'm a nurse and it's scared the crap out of me before. Imagine, doing post mortum care on a patient, around midnight on Halloween....nope, not kidding....and suddenly she lets out an 'ahhhhhhhh'. Instant heart attack! It was just air in her lungs pushing out when I moved her. The last 'exhale'. Thankfully she didn't inhale later. Then I really would have hit the floor. ; )

Krista - posted on 05/26/2011

And yeah...a guy rising from the dead after being EMBALMED? Pull the other one...

Before embalming became common, and when people would sit with the body for several days, it was not unheard-of for the body to suddenly sit upright. Scared the shit out of people, no doubt. But it was simply due to a buildup of gasses in the abdomen as the body decomposed.