Guns & Obama

Esther - posted on 08/24/2009

I did Carol - I tried to find the clip online after I had seen it so that I could post it here, but I wasn't able to (at least not quickly, but maybe I was looking too soon after it aired). It was hilarious.

Johnny - posted on 08/23/2009

As I am not American, I'll stay out of the guns debate when it's in regards to the United States specifically. So I won't add my 25 cents (I've got more than just 2 cents on the matter) to this thread. But did anyone see the "Remington Preschool: Giving your Child their Best Shot" skit on Bill Maher tonight? Priceless!

Kate CP - posted on 08/23/2009

Well suicide in Japan is also looked upon in a totally different light. While it may be viewed as a "sin" and selfish in most western cultures it may be thought to be a way of making amends with your family if you "dishonored" them in Japan and other Asian cultures. They even have rituals and ritual suicide weapons or tools which is usually a sword or dagger. So yes, suicide by gun in Japan is not as common as in America.

Jeannette - posted on 08/23/2009

Quoting Kate:

No...I freak out at the thought of criminals carrying guns, too. I don't like guns, personally. I don't want to own one, but that doesn't mean that NO ONE can own them. And no, they didn't have any right to be that close to the president with a firearm "protesting". You protest with signs. You shoot people with guns. If they want to rally and protest things then hey, go for it, that's their right as American citizens. But it should be done peacefully (IE without a weapon). Guns are weapons. Weapons do not equal peacefully protesting.

Edited to add: And the data is correct in showing that gun control decreases crime. I am more in favor of gun control decreasing accidental shootings, which it does. Then again, accidental shootings are pretty rare. Over 50% of deaths from gun shot resulted from suicide. Yep, most people kill themselves (not other people) with their own gun.

Yes,yes, in Japan there are double the suicides per year than in the US....and they're not using guns.

Brittney - posted on 08/23/2009

ha that made a big difference....lol.

Kate CP - posted on 08/23/2009

Brittney: I just noticed that my previous post said "gun control decreases crime" when I meant to say gun control DOESN'T decrease crime. It decreases accidental shootings because, well, if there isn't a gun then some one can't accidentally shoot themselves or another person with it. But no, gun control DOESN'T decrease crime. I hate typos. :/

Brittney - posted on 08/23/2009

Kate I think I've been in a gun discussion with you in another forum...ha. Well just b/c they had guns didn't mean they were going to use them. True protesting w/ signs I agree would be better around the president, but if someone had a permit to carry concealed then no one would have known. I think AZ you have to carry where its visibable, not sure though. If gun control has decreased crime somewhere, then what country has it benefited b/c Austrailians seem to believe it has helped them, yet all their crime rates have went up. History doesn't lie, just look at what happen to germany just as one example. Just like 50% of ppl did from self inflicted wounds, most children die from ACCIDENTAL drownings, not at the hands of guns.

Kate CP - posted on 08/23/2009

No...I freak out at the thought of criminals carrying guns, too. I don't like guns, personally. I don't want to own one, but that doesn't mean that NO ONE can own them. And no, they didn't have any right to be that close to the president with a firearm "protesting". You protest with signs. You shoot people with guns. If they want to rally and protest things then hey, go for it, that's their right as American citizens. But it should be done peacefully (IE without a weapon). Guns are weapons. Weapons do not equal peacefully protesting.



Edited to add: And the data is correct in showing that gun control decreases crime. I am more in favor of gun control decreasing accidental shootings, which it does. Then again, accidental shootings are pretty rare. Over 50% of deaths from gun shot resulted from suicide. Yep, most people kill themselves (not other people) with their own gun.

Jeannette - posted on 08/23/2009

Quoting Brittney:

Jessica, thats right gun control does nothing, history proves itself. People will argue that, but facts are facts. Am I saying that these protesters should have been showing off their weapons, probably not a good idea. PPl freak out when they see a gun, that's probably why criminals hide them. Don't be fooled to think that when you walk in a store that there isn't someone with an illegal firearm, b/c there is, but you wouldn't know that. Those protestor had every right to carry a firearm if AZ permits that, not saying it was a good idea. But the second amendment gives you the right to bear arms, so yes the right to bare arms does matter. You would have never known if a criminal had a gun there right?, b/c it's probably hidden. So just b/c everyone seen these ppl with their firearms they freak out, but yet they aren't freaked out about the unknown of a criminal having a gun hidden.

*sigh* thank you Brittney...I agree with you completely

Brittney - posted on 08/23/2009

Jessica, thats right gun control does nothing, history proves itself. People will argue that, but facts are facts. Am I saying that these protesters should have been showing off their weapons, probably not a good idea. PPl freak out when they see a gun, that's probably why criminals hide them. Don't be fooled to think that when you walk in a store that there isn't someone with an illegal firearm, b/c there is, but you wouldn't know that. Those protestor had every right to carry a firearm if AZ permits that, not saying it was a good idea. But the second amendment gives you the right to bear arms, so yes the right to bare arms does matter. You would have never known if a criminal had a gun there right?, b/c it's probably hidden. So just b/c everyone seen these ppl with their firearms they freak out, but yet they aren't freaked out about the unknown of a criminal having a gun hidden.

Joy - posted on 08/22/2009

Thank you Christa Lammers! That's what it boils down to for me too. On this particular thread, right to bear arms doesn't really matter. He is the leader of our nation and our history has proven that even under the "safest" conditions, our leader can be shot, killed even. Why would they let someone even go within the vacinity of him with a gun?

Christa - posted on 08/22/2009

Right to bear arms or not!! The President is the President whether you like him or not; voted for him or not...He is the President. NO ONE should be allowed to get near him with a firearm unless they are part of his security team. End of story!!

Jenny - posted on 08/22/2009

I love shooting guns but I can certainly agree they have done more harm than good.

Charlie - posted on 08/22/2009

OMG seriously the topic is GUN"S , We can easily sit here and rattle off ALL the objects in the world that cause death which can be almost anything .
Janette , just wondering do have the link's to those Japanese suicide statistics?
Because although they have a high suicide rate i am wondering what percentage is from shooting's .
Because i specifically stated that suicide by SHOOTING in America is higher than murder .
Not higher than car accident's , Cancer , drugs so on and so forth .

But hey if rattling off other objects that kill people ( and we could name thousands ) makes you feel better about being part of the societies desensitized view of violence and their causes then so be it , we will agree to disagree .
BTW we offer international data because the internet is worldwide , we come from all sides of this planet .
IMO i find these lame comparison's to car's a big fat excuse .


Sorry guns have still done more harm than good .

Kate CP - posted on 08/21/2009

I'm gonna say it again, cause it obviously didn't get read or the math just didn't compute:

It is estimated that 1 in every 4 people (that %25) in the US own guns with an average of your "typical" gun owner having 4 guns. It's estimated that at least 3 out of 4 people (that's %75) own an automobile in the US. In 2001 26,636 ADULTS (that doesn't include people under the age of 24) were killed by guns. 42,900 PEOPLE (that includes children and people under the age of 24) died in automobile accidents in 2001. So, if you take the number of people who own guns and multiply it to equal the number of people who own cars, the resulting number of deaths from gun is 46,613 ADULTS (NOT including people under the age of 24).

I used 2001 because that year had the most complete data on guns, deaths, and automobiles I could find. Violent crime is dropping which is good. I don't think owning guns leads to less or more "crime"...but it leads to more deaths.

Just because YOU don't use guns to kill doesn't mean they weren't CREATED with that specific purpose.

Jeannette - posted on 08/21/2009

Quoting Esther:

Jeannette - I grew up in a country where ALL firearms are illegal so forgive me for having a hard time understanding the passion some Americans have for their guns. However, I respect that there are cultural differences and that the second amendment is part of the fabric of the US. I may not like it, but I am not out to take your gun rights away, although I will personally never ever ever ever allow a gun into my house.

But, as a mother, this is what scares me: I have a little boy now who is a US citizen and he will be growing up here (unless something unexpected happens). He is little now so I can still control what he is exposed to, who he plays with, where he goes and what he does (although he tries to fight me on some of that ;). But he will get bigger. And he may want to go over to a friend's house for a play date or a sleep over. The thought of him coming across a firearm in someone else's house scares me to death. I believe that you take all the proper precautions. I commend you for having children who do as they are told at all times when it comes to guns. But forgive me for not trusting that EVERY parent will be that responsible and that EVERY child with access to a gun will do the right thing. My own friend's son recently lost 3 of his fingers because he was playing around with a gun at a friend's house. He's a teenager. And he was trained in gun safety (my friend's husband also has a gun). But he's a teenager. And they do dumb things. Thank god it didn't turn out worse than this.

There was a woman on Oprah who thought she heard a burglar at the back door when her husband was away on business so she loaded a handgun and went to check it out. There was nobody there but she still felt scared so she took the gun to bed with her and put it under her pillow. When she woke up the next morning she forgot she still had it there, went to the bathroom and while she was there, her 5 year old found the gun and shot (and killed) himself. The woman was devasted. She made a horrible mistake. She was a good mother. But her son is still dead.

That is what scares me to death. It's people making honest mistakes. It's kids being kids. It's irresponsible parents. It's domestic disputes gone bad, etc.

Esther, I read your post with a heavy heart.  Yes, I love my children dearly, and I KNOW all of you do as well. 

I am for firearm classes that last hours long.  How many hours? I don't know....but it doesn't take that long to learn how to break down your gun, clean your gun, maintain your gun, learn to load and fire your gun.  I support firearm education.  I was fortunate to have that education (via my husband) and know that I was unfortunate not to have it as a child.

My children don't do everything I tell them to do.  But now they're teenagers, the nonviolent type, and my son has not had his gun since he was 5. 

I will tell you my story, since I really haven't elaborated.

My father in law wanted to take my son hunting when he was 5.  I told my husband that I disagree with that because my son was too fidgity and did not pay attention.  So, my son did not go hunting that year.  My son went hunting when he was 7 or 8 for the first time.  I grew up with cousins and friends having BB guns.  They were all under the age of 10 when they acquired them, and I will point out, they all lived in the country on acres of land.  My husband would not allow our son to have a BB gun.  His reason being that a BB gun would be treated like a toy by my son because my husband (who grew up in the country) would go out in the woods and shoot random things. He was afraid my son would not see it as a "gun" at all.  We live in a rural area, but in a neighborhood.  We don't have acres of land, we have neighbors.  My husband and I also didn't want my son randomly shooting domestic animals, which I think would've happened if he had a gun that he viewed as a toy.

My son got his 410/rifle combo gun two years ago.  He had been using guns for hunting and target practice for roughly 3 years.  He was shown that they are not toys, that they do kill, and that HE has to be responsible enough to keep it in his room. (unloaded without access to his ammo albeit)  He doesn't let his friends touch it.  I know that one could pull it down from its place if my son left the room, but believe it or not, they don't do that.  Because I do enjoy shooting so much does not mean that myself or my family are gun obsessive in that we have to touch them regularly.  My son has shot his guns more than I've shot mine.  He has access to targets and hunting when he is with his grandfather.  My father in law thinks I am too conservative with my son, because he himself had access and was hunting by himself since he was about 9. 

I don't think guns are for every family.  I am sorry that a mother had to go through that with her own child.  I have loaded my .38 to inspect a noise I heard in the middle of the night; I kept the gun raised, close to my body (torso), and went through unloading and replacing it.  I personally would not sleep with a gun under my pillow...as much as I love to handle them...I don't put them near my head ever.

I had an experience in the middle of the day as well....I was taking a nap.  I heard noise on the other end of the house.  I heard someone run across the floor.  My heart was pounding hard, as I was the only one at home, and expected no one.  I again took my .38, held it DOWN by my side, (now I had daylight...I could see before I aimed)  I walked slowly and called out "who's here"?  No answer.  I kept walking and called out again "who's here"?  Nothing...as I made it to the living room I saw one of my children.  I was pissed and relieved!  I never raised the gun, as I had not gotten a response.  But because I have read so many articles and stories, I knew better than to have a knee jerk reaction.  My mom has a key to my house, btw, and she didn't call ahead to let me know she was on her way(that's why I felt pissed).  I have thought about that day....I have said what if to myself many times....but there is no what if.  I did it the most responsible way.  I did scold my child for not answering me, but was told that they didn't hear me.  Again, I didn't raise the gun, and my child did not even know I had it on me.  I did remind my mother that I had guns (so does she!) and that in the future I would appreciate a warning.

In the incident of the drug addict just walking into my house, I didn't raise the gun.  It is a strong deterrent. 

Now, I live in a rural area.  In the school system there are 70% on the free/reduced lunch program.  Next to no industry...and the few businesses that pay well, have also had layoffs.  I am not even intersted in protecting my belongings so much.  I want to be able to protect my person (I don't even want to have to go through rape) and I want to be able to protect my kids.  I read American Rifleman currently...but I have read and subscribed to other gun owner magazines.  You learn a lot from other's experiences.

I will also add this.  Just because I have been in control each time I've carried my weapon, does not mean that I would not be willing to attend a firearm class.  I support education.

Jeannette - posted on 08/21/2009

Quoting Loureen:

Over 50% of American households own guns, despite government statistics from 1994 showing the number is approximately 35%, because guns not listed on any government roll were not counted during the gathering of data

In 2002 in the U.S., 1,202 women were killed by their intimate partners, accounting for 30 percent of the 4006 women murdered that year. A total of 700 women were killed by intimate partners using guns.[113] The same year, 175 men were killed by intimate partners.[114]

Many gun control opponents point to statistics in advertising campaigns purporting that "approximately 9 or so children are killed by people discharging firearms every day across the US," and argue that this statistic is seldom accompanied by a differentiation of those children killed by individuals from unintentional discharges and stray bullets, and of those "children," under the age of majority—which is 18-21 in the U.S.—who are killed while acting as aggressors in street gang related mutual combat or while committing crimes,[116][117] many of which are seen as arising from the War on Drugs. There is further controversy regarding courts, trials, and the resulting sentences of these mostly "young men" as adults despite them not having reached the age of consent. A significant number of gun related deaths occur through suicide.

Australia

Firearm laws in Australia are enforced at a State level. The minimum age for any shooter is 12 years. To obtain a full firearm license a person must pass a background check, a basic course of firearm safety and be of at least 18 years of age.

For every firearm, a purchaser must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit for each person has a mandatory 28 day delay before it is issued. In some states, such as Queensland, this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class, whilst in others, it is not. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license.

Handguns are only available to target shooting club members after a rigorous probation period. Since the 1996 Port Arthur massacre, all semi-automatic longarms and pump shotguns have been almost completely banned. There is an on-going amnesty for those who freely surrender such weapons.

Japan has similar if not more stringent laws for weapons including guns and even swords , it is interesting to note By contrast, in the U.S. 11,344 were shot and killed, plus 16,750 by suicide. That’s 343 times Japan’s rate! America’s easy availability of guns has made death far more likely.”

Notice suicide by gunshot outweighs murders , America leads for developed nation's when it comes to gun ownership and death by shootings , coincidence ??

I don't think so .

New figures released by the Japanese authorities this week show that the country's suicide rate is still climbing despite government efforts to dramatically reduce the figure by 2016, and the fastest rise appears to be among elderly Japanese, a growing sector of the population that is also experiencing rising poverty.

Nearly 100 Japanese killed themselves every day in 2007, that is over 33,000 people in the year, a rise of 3 per cent on the year before, and the tenth year in a row that the figure has exceeded 30,000 said Japan's national police agency.

Japan's suicide rate is double the USA's as of 2007...so if you want to off yourself, you don't need a gun.   

All of the collective data noted:  I am still more likely to be killed in a car than by a gun.

If you, and others, take a look at the collective data....apparently there are certain parts of the country where gun deaths are significantly higher - Chicago, Florida, D. C. 

"Thursday's decision is going to have a far-reaching effect across the county and especially in Chicago where the city has had a handgun ban on the books since 1982".  in reference to the reversal of D.C.'s ban.

I am also going to wager that most of the murders in these three places were gang/drug related.  In Florida there has been issue with illegal immigrants from South America increasing the amount of violent crimes. 

Okay....now I am curious....so, I am going to start another conversation.  Due to the fact that many people like to offer international data.

Esther - posted on 08/21/2009

Jeannette - I grew up in a country where ALL firearms are illegal so forgive me for having a hard time understanding the passion some Americans have for their guns. However, I respect that there are cultural differences and that the second amendment is part of the fabric of the US. I may not like it, but I am not out to take your gun rights away, although I will personally never ever ever ever allow a gun into my house.



But, as a mother, this is what scares me: I have a little boy now who is a US citizen and he will be growing up here (unless something unexpected happens). He is little now so I can still control what he is exposed to, who he plays with, where he goes and what he does (although he tries to fight me on some of that ;). But he will get bigger. And he may want to go over to a friend's house for a play date or a sleep over. The thought of him coming across a firearm in someone else's house scares me to death. I believe that you take all the proper precautions. I commend you for having children who do as they are told at all times when it comes to guns. But forgive me for not trusting that EVERY parent will be that responsible and that EVERY child with access to a gun will do the right thing. My own friend's son recently lost 3 of his fingers because he was playing around with a gun at a friend's house. He's a teenager. And he was trained in gun safety (my friend's husband also has a gun). But he's a teenager. And they do dumb things. Thank god it didn't turn out worse than this.



There was a woman on Oprah who thought she heard a burglar at the back door when her husband was away on business so she loaded a handgun and went to check it out. There was nobody there but she still felt scared so she took the gun to bed with her and put it under her pillow. When she woke up the next morning she forgot she still had it there, went to the bathroom and while she was there, her 5 year old found the gun and shot (and killed) himself. The woman was devasted. She made a horrible mistake. She was a good mother. But her son is still dead.



That is what scares me to death. It's people making honest mistakes. It's kids being kids. It's irresponsible parents. It's domestic disputes gone bad, etc.

Jeannette - posted on 08/21/2009

Quoting Kate:

Knives were built for cutting, slicing, stabbing, and occassionally hacking (like a hatchet). There are laws regarding knives: You cannot have a blade longer than 3 inches in public. You cannot take knives of any size into federal buildings. Swords in Texas must be sold with a fake edge.

Children die every day from being SHOT on PURPOSE. If as many people owned guns as do cars I'm positive we would see a much much much higher incidence of "accidental" shootings and gun related death/violence.

It's very hard to carry a car. It's very hard to conceal a car, too. However, it's pretty easy to carry and hide a gun. People who drive cars have to have a license and take classes to learn how to drive. Cars usually cost over 10k...I can get a gun for $50. Using a car as a mode of death works ONE TIME...then the car needs to be repaired. I can shoot as many people as I want and all I have to do is reload. You don't hunt deer by running over them in your truck, you shoot them. Wars aren't fought using cadillacs they are fought using...GUNS. It is estimated that 1 in every 4 people (that %25) in the US own guns with an average of your "typical" gun owner having 4 guns. It's estimated that at least 3 out of 4 people (that's %75) own an automobile in the US. In 2001 26,636 ADULTS (that doesn't include people under the age of 24) were killed by guns. 42,900 PEOPLE (that includes children and people under the age of 24) died in automobile accidents in 2001. So, if you take the number of people who own guns and multiply it to equal the number of people who own cars, the resulting number of deaths from gun is 46,613 ADULTS (not including people under the age of 24). So, you're telling me that comparitively speaking, there are more people killed in car accidents than guns? It's easier to kill anything with a gun than with a knife. You can stand far away, hide if you have to, don't have to get all bloody and gross, and fire. With a knife you risk stabbing or cutting yourself, getting blood all over you, and you're chance of surprise is kinda small.

Keeping that in mind I want to say again: I THINK PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO OWN FIREARMS. I do not think it's a good idea for children to have access to them. I do not think it's a good idea to own automatic or semiautomatic firearms unless you are an active member of the military.

From 1999 - 2006 number of deaths related to firearms: 238,467

From 1999 - 2006 number of deaths related to transportation overall:  381,365

From the CDC website.

I understand that YOU are not debating whether people should have the right to bear arms.  Got that.  I own a semiautomatic...and have killed NOTHING with it.  I understand you do not think it is a good idea that a young person have a firearm, and you may know a lot of 13 year olds you would never hand a firearm to.  Great, I wouldn't hand a firearm to just anyone....I had hoped I clarified that earlier...that there are young people that would require firearm education before I let them use it.

I brought up the kitchen knife argument, not even as a viable one.  I am venting (inappropriately so) on how yet another mother has murdered her infant...and she did it with a knife. 

I stated earlier that I agree with required classes on educating people on the firearm they are purchasing. (no matter the type of firearm) I would support gun owner education, that lasted hours.  However, until I infringe upon your freedoms with my firearms, I don't believe anyone should have the right to mandate whether or not I can buy one.  Firearms are still currently legal...so is alcohol....so are vehicles...etc.  I completely disagree with having to wait a year for approval, references, and the like. 

Until we as a whole have shown that we are irresponsible and incapable of owning a firearm, why put such restrictions on something that is legal to purchase?  Yet, parents can give their 16 year old a car for their birthday?????   That just goes to show, we are not willing to part with makes us comfortable, makes our lives more convenient, is something most of us enjoy. 

If a life is what you are afraid of being taken.....why aren't you fighting to make cars illegal?  Because the car can only kill once?  Really?  Ever been "surprised" by an "accident" in a car? Have you seen some of the cars on the road?  They look like they've hit or been hit multiple times.  Who says you have to get that car fixed?  Get another one for 800.00.  And yeah, you can buy running cars for 800.00 and less, check Craig's list. 

I am just wondering why there is such passionate arguments about guns because they kill people....and not anything else.  Oh yeah, they were designed to kill...

I disagree....I would shoot a fully automatic firearm for the rush.  Ever go sky diving?  Every parasail?  Ever snowboard?  I would not and have never shot a person without just cause.  I even let the law dictate "just cause".   Let me reclarify...I have never shot a person. 

Kate CP - posted on 08/21/2009

Knives were built for cutting, slicing, stabbing, and occassionally hacking (like a hatchet). There are laws regarding knives: You cannot have a blade longer than 3 inches in public. You cannot take knives of any size into federal buildings. Swords in Texas must be sold with a fake edge.

Children die every day from being SHOT on PURPOSE. If as many people owned guns as do cars I'm positive we would see a much much much higher incidence of "accidental" shootings and gun related death/violence.

It's very hard to carry a car. It's very hard to conceal a car, too. However, it's pretty easy to carry and hide a gun. People who drive cars have to have a license and take classes to learn how to drive. Cars usually cost over 10k...I can get a gun for $50. Using a car as a mode of death works ONE TIME...then the car needs to be repaired. I can shoot as many people as I want and all I have to do is reload. You don't hunt deer by running over them in your truck, you shoot them. Wars aren't fought using cadillacs they are fought using...GUNS. It is estimated that 1 in every 4 people (that %25) in the US own guns with an average of your "typical" gun owner having 4 guns. It's estimated that at least 3 out of 4 people (that's %75) own an automobile in the US. In 2001 26,636 ADULTS (that doesn't include people under the age of 24) were killed by guns. 42,900 PEOPLE (that includes children and people under the age of 24) died in automobile accidents in 2001. So, if you take the number of people who own guns and multiply it to equal the number of people who own cars, the resulting number of deaths from gun is 46,613 ADULTS (not including people under the age of 24). So, you're telling me that comparitively speaking, there are more people killed in car accidents than guns? It's easier to kill anything with a gun than with a knife. You can stand far away, hide if you have to, don't have to get all bloody and gross, and fire. With a knife you risk stabbing or cutting yourself, getting blood all over you, and you're chance of surprise is kinda small.

Keeping that in mind I want to say again: I THINK PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO OWN FIREARMS. I do not think it's a good idea for children to have access to them. I do not think it's a good idea to own automatic or semiautomatic firearms unless you are an active member of the military.

Jeannette - posted on 08/21/2009

Quoting Kate:

Look, cars cause more deaths per year than gun shot wounds in the United States. Why? Because MORE PEOPLE DRIVE CARS THAN OWN GUNS. Cars were NOT created with the sole purpose of ending life (any kind of life, not just human). GUNS were created to end life. They were created to make WAR easier to fight. They were created to make it easier to hunt animals. They were NOT created to just sit around and look pretty. I don't care if you collect guns or own guns, that's your right and you should have it. However, I don't think it's wise to allow a child of any age to have functioning although unloaded firearms in their room.

Vehicles that were created to cause death and destruction are not owned by the general population. How do I know that? BECAUSE THEY'RE CALLED TANKS. Civilians do not own tanks. So if you're going to compare guns to vehicles that were created to cause death like a gun then you should be comparing guns to tanks.

...and I honestly don't know how many people in the US were killed by a drunk driving a tank.

Yeah, you guys are helping me prove my point...which is why I let you all go on and on about the "sole" purpose of a gun.  The purpose of a car is to transport...brilliant...someone pointed that out!  Then shouldn't you be more affronted by the fact that more people die by car than guns?  Cars are diven everyday - including the ones us gun owners drive.  But...we don't shoot our guns everyday.

Innocent children die in the cars of their negligent parents everyday, due to their parent's negligence at times.  I will give examples...being distracted by anyting that would impair your ability to remain concentrated on the most important task - radio, cell phone, reaching back to hand kid toys, trying to correct/discipline children while driving, putting on makeup, eating.  All of these are contributors to "accidents" that could have been avoided.  If you are partaking in these activities when you should have been driving, it is really an on purpose, because you neglected to stay focused on your most important task...I am at lunch...so, I will cut this short.

You all are arguing FOR cars because they were not built to kill...but guns were.  Shouldn't you be screaming at the tops of your collective lungs at your elected officials to force them to take a look at that picture?  They weren't built to kill, yet even innocent little precious children die each day riding around in their parent's tranportation?!?  More so than die from guns.

I will reply to the person under this post later this evening...when I have time.

Is the taking of lives only important to you all then when it is done solely by things that were created to kill?   That is when it matters?? Do you see the hypocrisy? 

It should be noted: knives were built for killing...AND THEY ARE STILL USED IN THE USA AS WEAPONS!!!!  KITCHEN-repeat-COMMON KITCHEN KNIVES!!!!

Because they were built for killing, we should have stricter laws regarding them as well, as each home probably has a dozen or more that can be stolen and used on an innocent person.   Most people are  probably  all willy nilly about their kitchen knives I'd bet!

Charlie - posted on 08/20/2009

Over 50% of American households own guns, despite government statistics from 1994 showing the number is approximately 35%, because guns not listed on any government roll were not counted during the gathering of data

In 2002 in the U.S., 1,202 women were killed by their intimate partners, accounting for 30 percent of the 4006 women murdered that year. A total of 700 women were killed by intimate partners using guns.[113] The same year, 175 men were killed by intimate partners.[114]

Many gun control opponents point to statistics in advertising campaigns purporting that "approximately 9 or so children are killed by people discharging firearms every day across the US," and argue that this statistic is seldom accompanied by a differentiation of those children killed by individuals from unintentional discharges and stray bullets, and of those "children," under the age of majority—which is 18-21 in the U.S.—who are killed while acting as aggressors in street gang related mutual combat or while committing crimes,[116][117] many of which are seen as arising from the War on Drugs. There is further controversy regarding courts, trials, and the resulting sentences of these mostly "young men" as adults despite them not having reached the age of consent. A significant number of gun related deaths occur through suicide.

Australia

Firearm laws in Australia are enforced at a State level. The minimum age for any shooter is 12 years. To obtain a full firearm license a person must pass a background check, a basic course of firearm safety and be of at least 18 years of age.

For every firearm, a purchaser must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit for each person has a mandatory 28 day delay before it is issued. In some states, such as Queensland, this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class, whilst in others, it is not. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license.

Handguns are only available to target shooting club members after a rigorous probation period. Since the 1996 Port Arthur massacre, all semi-automatic longarms and pump shotguns have been almost completely banned. There is an on-going amnesty for those who freely surrender such weapons.

Japan has similar if not more stringent laws for weapons including guns and even swords , it is interesting to note By contrast, in the U.S. 11,344 were shot and killed, plus 16,750 by suicide. That’s 343 times Japan’s rate! America’s easy availability of guns has made death far more likely.”

Notice suicide by gunshot outweighs murders , America leads for developed nation's when it comes to gun ownership and death by shootings , coincidence ??

I don't think so .

~Jennifer - posted on 08/20/2009

Quoting Jeannette:

the united states

yeah, thanks, I had figured that out...I meant what part.

Kate CP - posted on 08/20/2009

Look, cars cause more deaths per year than gun shot wounds in the United States. Why? Because MORE PEOPLE DRIVE CARS THAN OWN GUNS. Cars were NOT created with the sole purpose of ending life (any kind of life, not just human). GUNS were created to end life. They were created to make WAR easier to fight. They were created to make it easier to hunt animals. They were NOT created to just sit around and look pretty. I don't care if you collect guns or own guns, that's your right and you should have it. However, I don't think it's wise to allow a child of any age to have functioning although unloaded firearms in their room.

Vehicles that were created to cause death and destruction are not owned by the general population. How do I know that? BECAUSE THEY'RE CALLED TANKS. Civilians do not own tanks. So if you're going to compare guns to vehicles that were created to cause death like a gun then you should be comparing guns to tanks.

...and I honestly don't know how many people in the US were killed by a drunk driving a tank.

ME - posted on 08/20/2009

I just don't see anywhere on here where anyone wants to take away your "right to bear arms"...I see people arguing for more stringent legislation controlling the types of weapons available to the avg. person, and more legislation controlling who can sell those weapons/how quickly they can sell them. Any parent, gun lover or no, who pays attention to what's happening in this country, should be ALL FOR controlling who gets to have guns around their children! 50 + children have been murdered by people with guns this year SO FAR in Chicago. Many of them have been VERY young kids playing outside or sitting in their homes. The situation here is heartbreaking...and at the very least, calls for state by state gun control legislation!

Erin - posted on 08/19/2009

Yes but that is not what cars were intended for when they were introduced, and a car being used as a weapon is obviously the exception, not the rule. When guns kill or injure, they are performing their intended purpose. Simple.

Jeannette - posted on 08/19/2009

I have to disagree with the post about the car deaths being accidents...some are manslaughter. A car was used to run over a cheating husband...she ran over and over him.

Jeannette - posted on 08/19/2009

the united states

~Jennifer - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Jeannette:

The "sole" purpose of a gun is not to kill...they are wonderful deterrents as well; without being fired. They have various purposes, and people should have the legal right to use them in a law abiding fashion.

May I ask where you are from, in general?

No specific location...just a 'general'

Jeannette - posted on 08/19/2009

The "sole" purpose of a gun is not to kill...they are wonderful deterrents as well; without being fired. They have various purposes, and people should have the legal right to use them in a law abiding fashion.

Erin - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Loureen:

.
With many of you I can agree to disagree, but with some of you I can honestly say...you've not given any good reason for guns to be outlawed, yet allow cars to be legal. Is your vehicle so important to you? Do you collect them? Is it the only way you can get from point A to point B? Do you not realise that most accidents occur within 5 miles of the home...and do you reduce your risk by walking that 5 miles to your car? How do you know someone won't steal your car and kill someone else with it? Do your children ride in the car with you at night (when vision is impaired)? Do you ever drive tired? Do you ever drive while distracted by your child? How many people can be killed at a time when a car hits a tree? How many people can be killed at a time when a car hits another passenger car?

The difference is gun's were created to KILL people car's were created to transport and while they can cause death ( as do so many other object's ) it is not their purpose .

It is also interesting to note that by just owning a gun your life expectancy drops by

by an average of 103.6 days.

http://www.wharton.universia.net/index.c...

Thank you Loureen for pointing out what I thought would have been the glaringly obvious...

There is no comparison between guns and cars. One was produced with the sole purpose of killing or maiming, the other is a mode of transport. If death or injury results from the use of a car, it is an ACCIDENT (even where negligence is involved).

Charlie - posted on 08/19/2009

.
With many of you I can agree to disagree, but with some of you I can honestly say...you've not given any good reason for guns to be outlawed, yet allow cars to be legal. Is your vehicle so important to you? Do you collect them? Is it the only way you can get from point A to point B? Do you not realise that most accidents occur within 5 miles of the home...and do you reduce your risk by walking that 5 miles to your car? How do you know someone won't steal your car and kill someone else with it? Do your children ride in the car with you at night (when vision is impaired)? Do you ever drive tired? Do you ever drive while distracted by your child? How many people can be killed at a time when a car hits a tree? How many people can be killed at a time when a car hits another passenger car?

The difference is gun's were created to KILL people car's were created to transport and while they can cause death ( as do so many other object's ) it is not their purpose .

It is also interesting to note that by just owning a gun your life expectancy drops by

by an average of 103.6 days.

http://www.wharton.universia.net/index.c...

Jeannette - posted on 08/19/2009

I am not trying to convince anyone of being a gun advocate. I stated my beliefs on gun ownership. I agree that not all young people should handle or be around guns. If a person grows up with them, is trained with them, is not afraid of them (but has a respect for them) and shows responsibility with them...then, why not?

By some of the responses I've gotten, and I've just gotten through them all, let me clarify a couple of other things: 1) we don't have our guns lying around the house, loaded, willy nilly. 2) our handguns were put out of our children's reach when they were little, they know where they are now, they are not on our public rooms' surfaces/walls. 3) I have been robbed of a couple of cameras, laptop, dvds, cds, my credit cards, but they left the guns and the booze. I don't know why they left the guns...maybe they're against them too...and they don't drink? You are correct in that I would not be able to defend myself/possessions when being robbed when not at home, but I have the option to protect myself/family when I am home! I have had a drug addict walk into my house, with me home, asking me for money...because this person did not know where I keep my guns, this person could not get to my weapon before me...this person didn't have the stability to even know what I was doing. This person lived. : )

I understand that people who don't like the way guns sound or their purpose will not appreciate them the way that I do. Look people, I have 2, I wish I had more, but I am not throwing grocery money at a hobby!

I don't understand why anyone would resort to name calling, other than they forgot to edit their post. I don't resort to name calling, and if I do, call me out on such nonsense.

With many of you I can agree to disagree, but with some of you I can honestly say...you've not given any good reason for guns to be outlawed, yet allow cars to be legal. Is your vehicle so important to you? Do you collect them? Is it the only way you can get from point A to point B? Do you not realise that most accidents occur within 5 miles of the home...and do you reduce your risk by walking that 5 miles to your car? How do you know someone won't steal your car and kill someone else with it? Do your children ride in the car with you at night (when vision is impaired)? Do you ever drive tired? Do you ever drive while distracted by your child? How many people can be killed at a time when a car hits a tree? How many people can be killed at a time when a car hits another passenger car?



Your concerns/complaints are legitimate, but they are not reason enough to outlaw the right to bear arms. If they are....then cars, planes and trains are next because there have been a lot of "what if" scenarios created here...and guess what? "What if" can be applied to everything. Not trying to convince you to see it my way. Just asking you to kindly let me have my right to bear arms.

Kate, one of my guns is a semi automatic 9mm long gun. It is chrome, very little kickback, and is just cool to look at (for me). I would love to shoot a fully automatic gun. In Florida, you can! (surprise!) One day, I hope to visit Florida, shoot the gun, say I did it, and go on...but that trip doesn't take precedence over some other travels that would be more important to me.

Kate CP - posted on 08/19/2009

Speaking from personal experience here: having guns does not protect your home and valuables. Neither does having a dog. Most burglars case your home for several days before hand to get a feel for your daily routines. Then they hit when you're at work or away on errands. They are in and out in a manner of minutes in broad daylight. No one will stop them and ask them what they are doing. They will leave your home (or what's left of it) a total wreck. They usually bring dog treats with them in case you do have a dog. How do I know all this? Because my house was burglarized a few years ago. They took everything I had except the furniture. The only reason they didn't take the furniture is because their truck wasn't big enough. They hit my house in the middle of the day while I was away at class and my husband was working. They had been following us for a while. They knew I had taken my dogs over to my mom's and there was no one except a cat in the house. They had even been calling several times a day for the previous 3 days from different pay phones to see when we would be home (found out after the fact by checking caller id). A gun would not and could not protect my home in that situation. It would have just been another item stolen and later used in a crime and possibly linked back to me. Most weapons in the home are used on the resident of the home rather than an intruder. That means the likelihood of you shooting an intruder is much lower than being shot by your own gun (domestic violence, a lucky intruder finds your weapon before you, disarms you, etc). Guns sitting alone on a table don't kill people. The person who picks it up and uses it to kill people is the killer. The gun is the method of death. Most deaths by gunshot are either accidental or not premeditated meaning people happen to be REALLY distraught see a gun and shoot their source of emotional turmoil. The guns obtained in the Little Rock school shooting and the Columbine school shooting were all taken from the children's families who had legally obtained the firearms. They ammunition came from K Mart. Wal-Mart still sells ammunition. It is easily obtained by any one.
I don't have a problem with people owning guns or collecting guns, really. I think letting any child have a functioning firearm in their room is REALLY REALLY REALLY a bad idea. I also have an issue with non-military persons collecting automatic rifles. The only reason AK47s exist is to kill other humans. It was not made for target practice, hunting, sporting, or general collection. They were made to kill human beings. Your typical civilian does not need to own a weapon like that. A hand gun for target practice and rifles for hunting are fine as long as they are kept in a locked gun safe with trigger locks and the ammunition is kept in a separate safe and all of them should be out of the child's reach at all times. America has the highest gun crime rate in the world. We have legalized guns. Some how I don't think that's a coincidence.

And no, I'm not anti-gun. I live in Texas. I believe in a person's right to bear arms in an appropriate and responsible way.

Erin - posted on 08/19/2009

OK this has got way off topic and inappropriate so I'll be deleting these last posts. Traci I'll speak to the other mods about the PM, because I was under the impression one was sent to you in explanation.

Charlie - posted on 08/19/2009

I just find it a little ridiculous that people have to legally buy gun's to protect themselves from idiots/lunatics/psychos who also legally buy gun's .

Sarah - posted on 08/19/2009

Honestly......i try to make a serious point and this is what i get! hahahaha! :)

?? - posted on 08/19/2009

Well since the majority of the population is considered to be obese - maybe they hide their hand guns under their fat rolls? Or in the McDicks burger box they are always carrying around?



LOL I joke -- OBESITY & HIDING FIREARMS IS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!!! Bad Bad Bad!

~Jennifer - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Sarah:

I was discussing this with a friend this afternoon, and i was saying how a lot of people in the US have guns in their homes for 'protection'. For example, if someone broke into your home and threatened you, you would be better off having a gun there to defend yourself.
However, as we were talking we were thinking about it and if someone breaks into your home.....what are the chances of you having your gun within arms reach?? Quite slim i would have thought. If your gun WAS within arms reach, that means it's not safely locked away. Which in turn means technically your kids etc could easily get hold of your gun.
So if your gun is safely locked away....so as to protect your kids.....you won't have chance to use it......so what's the point in having it??
:)

.....................depends on where you hide it.

=)

Sarah - posted on 08/19/2009

I was discussing this with a friend this afternoon, and i was saying how a lot of people in the US have guns in their homes for 'protection'. For example, if someone broke into your home and threatened you, you would be better off having a gun there to defend yourself.
However, as we were talking we were thinking about it and if someone breaks into your home.....what are the chances of you having your gun within arms reach?? Quite slim i would have thought. If your gun WAS within arms reach, that means it's not safely locked away. Which in turn means technically your kids etc could easily get hold of your gun.
So if your gun is safely locked away....so as to protect your kids.....you won't have chance to use it......so what's the point in having it??
:)

?? - posted on 08/19/2009

I grew up with guns. My dad is a hunter. I have extensive knowledge of guns from being around them all my life. I've shot shotguns, I've shot handguns, I've shot about a dozen different kinds of firearms, as well as 3 different styles of bows. I have zero want, need, desire, anything to have a gun in my home or around my son. AND I will still be educating him about guns.



I think it's absolutely irresponsible to leave ANY type of firearm open and available for anyone to see/abuse. I would like to emphasize ABUSE. Whether you provide the ammo or not - the ammo is not hard to find. Have you ever watched "It Takes A Theif" ? These two men, previous burglars, break into people's homes and in 10 minutes show the home owners how EASY it is for all their worldly possessions to just disappear. There was one man who had over 50 firearms in his home and his 3 sons had guns in their bedrooms - NO AMMO - and Jon, he said something along the lines of 'fuckin sweet, I could sell these no prob'.



How re-assuring is that? Anyone can break into anyone's home - they can be GONE with 1 gun and next thing you know there's a school shooting and your gun is the trigger. There's been over 50 school shootings all around the world since 1995 - I think parents need to take more responsibility for their firearms. Even if they believe their child is educated - who fucking cares. Just because your child won't be the one pulling the trigger, doesn't mean SOMEONE won't be pulling the trigger.



I'd rather be safe, than eternally sorry.

JL - posted on 08/19/2009

Are people in America getting dumber or crazier..perhaps a bit of both. I have had this debate before on DM when I posted a thread on guns and bars. And I have had this debate when I posted threads on Political Debating Moms and Obama Mamas about stricter gun laws. All I can say is that I have had horrific personal experiences with so called law abiding citizens and their legally owned weapons. I will continue daily to work hard for the passage of stricter gun laws that enforce responsible gun ownership. The data proves that the states with stricter gun laws and less of a gun culture mentality have fewer incidences of gun violence while the states with more open gun laws and with a gun culture mentality have higher rates of gun violence.



Bringing guns to a place where the president is speaking is not about making a statement it is about pure ignorance. And yes this did happen and some admitted to having loaded guns on them. Seriously with the SS around do average citizens need to carry a gun for safety reasons at a place where the President is speaking. Sure now lets spend even more tax payer money on having to enforce more SS at events so they can each be assigned to one of the nutjobs carrying a gun. If the laws were stricter then I maybe could see the making a statement point but sorry they are not and in some states irresponsible nutjobs legally own weapons so I don't want them openly toting them around.



I want to protect my children from the irresponsible gun owners whose irresponsible ownership could result in my child's death and let me tell you if that ever happens the person who owned the guns better run fast because the law will not save them from me and I won't be using any guns on them.



Where I live....on military installations you have to follow strict gun ownership laws when it comes to personal ownership of guns and I am damn happy about that.

ME - posted on 08/19/2009

My experience with guns is that several of my friends lived through the Columbine massacure, and one of my friends lived through the shootings at NIU. I know that those guns were all bought LEGALLY, making me wonder how ALL of you couldn't want tighter gun control...but maybe gun rights advocates think that well trained teens should be able to carry weapons to HS, or college classes, just in case...I would absolutely support the type of gun laws that they have in Austrailia! I would CERTAINLY hope that responsible gun owners in ANY country would keep all of their personal weapons locked securely were strangers, friends, loved ones, or intruders could NOT EVER pick them up and walk out of the house with them.

Jinglebones - posted on 08/19/2009

thank you, Cathy (I think that was a lot of work!) - that pretty much makes my point and then some...

Charlie - posted on 08/19/2009

WOW !! that is really sad .

Cathy - posted on 08/19/2009

United States
Name, Location, Date, Year, Death toll
University of Texas at Austin massacre, Austin, Texas, United States, August 1 1966, 14
SC State killings1 Orangeburg, South Carolina, United States February 8 1968 3
Kent State shootings1 Kent, Ohio, United States May 4 1970 4
Jackson State shootings1 Jackson, Mississippi, United States May 14-15 1970 2
Olean High School shooting1 Olean, New York, United States December 30 1974 3
California State University, Fullerton massacre Fullerton, California, United States July 12 1976 7
Cleveland Elementary School shooting San Diego, California, United States January 29 1979 2
Parkway South Junior High School shooting Manchester, Missouri, United States January 20 1983 2
Goddard Middle School shooting Goddard, Kansas, United States January 21 1985 1
Portland Junior High School shooting Portland, Connecticut, United States December 10 1985 1
Pinellas Park High School shooting Pinellas Park, Florida, United States February 11 1988 1
Hubbard Woods School shooting Winnetka, Illinois, United States May 20 1988 1
Cleveland School massacre Stockton, California, United States January 17 1989 6
University of Iowa shooting Iowa City, Iowa, United States November 1 1991 6
Lindhurst High School shooting Olivehurst, California, United States May 1 1992 4
Edward Tilden High School shooting Chicago, Illinois, United States November 20 1992 1
Simon's Rock College of Bard shooting Great Barrington, Massachusetts, United States December 14 1992 2
East Carter High School shooting Grayson, Kentucky, United States January 18 1993 2
Amityville High School shooting Amityville, New York, United States February 1 1993 1
Reseda High School shooting Reseda, California, United States February 22 1993 1
Wauwatosa West High School shooting Wauwatosa, Wisconsin, United States December 1 1993 1
Grimsley High School shooting Greensboro, North Carolina, United States October 12 1994 1
Wickliffe Middle School shooting Wickliffe, Ohio, United States November 7 1994 1
Blackville-Hilda High School shooting Blackville, South Carolina, United States October 12 1995 2
Richland High School shooting Lynnville, Tennessee, United States November 15 1995 2
Frontier Middle School shooting Moses Lake, Washington, United States February 2 1996 3
Hamilton High School shooting Scottdale, Georgia, United States February 2 1996 1
San Diego State University shooting San Diego, California, United States August 15 1996 3
Hetzel Union Building shooting State College, Pennsylvania, United States September 17 1996 1
Bethel Regional High School shooting Bethel, Alaska, United States February 19 1997 2
Pearl High School shooting Pearl, Mississippi, United States October 1 1997 2
Heath High School shooting West Paducah, Kentucky, United States December 1 1997 3
Westside Middle School shooting Jonesboro, Arkansas, United States March 24 1998 5
Parker Middle School dance shooting1 Edinboro, Pennsylvania, United States April 24 1998 1
Thurston High School shooting Springfield, Oregon, United States May 20 1998 2
Columbine High School massacre Littleton, Colorado, United States April 20 1999 15
Buell Elementary School shooting Mount Morris Township, Michigan, United States February 29 2000 1
Lake Worth Middle School shooting Lake Worth, Florida, United States May 26 2000 1
University of Arkansas shooting Fayetteville, Arkansas, United States August 28 2000 2
Santana High School shooting Santee, California, United States March 5 2001 2
Appalachian School of Law shooting Grundy, Virginia, United States January 16 2002 3
John McDonogh High School shooting New Orleans, Louisiana, United States April 14 2003 1
Red Lion Area Junior High School shootings Red Lion, Pennsylvania, United States April 24 2003 2
Case Western Reserve University shooting Cleveland, Ohio, United States May 9 2003 1
Rocori High School shooting Cold Spring, Minnesota, United States September 24 2003 2
Fairleigh Dickinson University shooting Florham Park, New Jersey, United States April 4 2004 2
Red Lake Senior High School massacre Red Lake, Minnesota, United States March 21 2005 8
Campbell County High School shooting Jacksboro, Tennessee, United States November 8 2005 1
Essex Elementary School shooting[11] Essex, Vermont, United States August 24 2006 2
Platte Canyon High School shooting Bailey, Colorado, United States September 27 2006 2
Weston High School shooting Cazenovia, Wisconsin, United States September 29 2006 1
Amish school shooting Nickel Mines, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, United States October 2 2006 6
Henry Foss High School shooting Tacoma, Washington, United States January 3 2007 1
University of Washington shooting Seattle, Washington, United States April 2 2007 2
Virginia Tech massacre Blacksburg, Virginia, United States April 16 2007 33
Delaware State University shooting Dover, Delaware, United States September 21 2007 1
SuccessTech Academy shooting Cleveland, Ohio, United States October 10 2007 1
Louisiana Technical College shooting Baton Rouge, Louisiana, United States February 8 2008 3
E.O. Green School shooting Oxnard, California, United States February 12 2008 1
Northern Illinois University massacre DeKalb, Illinois, United States February 14 2008 6
Davidson High School Shooting Mobile, Alabama, United States March 9 2008 1
Central High School shooting Knoxville, Tennessee, United States August 21 2008 1
Henry Ford High School shooting Detroit, Michigan, United States October 16 2008 1
University of Central Arkansas shooting Conway, Arkansas, United States October 27 2008 2
Dillard High School shooting Fort Lauderdale, Florida, United States November 12 2008 1
Henry Ford Community College shooting Dearborn, Michigan, United States April 10 2009 2
Larose-Cut Off Middle School shooting Larose, Louisiana, United States May 18 2009 1

Canada
Altona schoolhouse shooting Altona, Manitoba, Canada October 10 1902 2
Centennial Secondary School shooting Brampton, Ontario Canada May 28 1975 2
St Pius X High School School Ottawa, Ontario, Canada October 27 1975 1
École Polytechnique Massacre Montreal, Quebec, Canada December 6 1989 14
Concordia University massacre Montreal, Quebec, Canada August 24 1992 4
W. R. Myers High School shooting Taber, Alberta, Canada April 28 1999 1
Dawson College shooting Montreal, Quebec, Canada September 13 2006 1
C. W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting Toronto, Ontario, Canada May 23 2007 1

Europe

Raumanmeri school shooting Rauma, Finland January 24, 1989 2
Aarhus University Shooting Aarhus, Denmark April 4, 1994 3
Dunblane massacre Dunblane, Scotland March 13, 1996 18
Erfurt massacre Erfurt, Germany April 26, 2002 17
Coburg shooting Coburg, Germany July 3, 2003 1
Beslan school hostage crisis Beslan, Russia September 1, 2004 385+
Grund- und Hauptschule von Rötz shooting Rötz (Oberpfalz), Germany March 7, 2005
Geschwister Scholl School attack Emsdetten, Germany November 20, 2006 1
Jokela school massacre Tuusula, Finland November 7, 2007 9
Kauhajoki school shooting Kauhajoki, Finland September 23, 2008 11
Tromsø school shooting Tromsø, Norway January 23, 2009 2
Albertville-Realschule massacre Winnenden, Germany March 11, 2009 16

South America, Asia and Australia
Ma'alot massacre Ma'alot, Israel May 15, 1974 29
6 October 1976 Massacre Bangkok, Thailand October 6, 1976 41+
Sanaa massacre Sanaa, Yemen March 30, 1997
University of the Philippines shooting Quezon City, Philippines February 19, 1999
Monash University shooting Melbourne, Australia October 21, 2002 2
Pak Phanang school shooting Nakhon Si Thammarat, Thailand June 6, 2003 2
Islas Malvinas School Carmen de Patagones, Argentina September 28, 2004
Beirut Arab University shooting Beirut, Lebanon January 25, 2007
Euro International school shooting Gurgaon, India December 12, 2007 1
Mercaz HaRav shooting Jerusalem, Israel March 6, 2008 9

Guns kill innocent people ... innocent children.... the situation is just ANOTHER disaster waiting to happen!

Iris - posted on 08/18/2009

I agree with Loureen.

Guns are for killing and I have a hard time seeing people go hunting animals with an automatic or a handgun. Makes me wonder what they are for if not for killing people...

Charlie - posted on 08/18/2009

Makes me glad i live in Australia where we have tougher gun restrictions .
Guns are for one thing and that's killing .
I am certainly happy i dont have to worry about any old idiot carrying around a gun wherever he or she likes.

Jenny - posted on 08/18/2009

I don't see anything wrong with the way Jeannette views guns. Not too sure on the teen keeping one in the room though as I just don't see a legimate reason for it. We are getting a locked locker for ours as we acquire them. I also agree guns are tools and needed to treated with respect. I don't want them for intruders, I want them for groceries.



Your rights to guns as you describe your ownership of them wouldn't be affected with more gun control though Jeannette. The way you have guns in your life would be totally legal in Canada to the best of my knowledge. Handguns are legal too, just restricted to the people who can handle them properly, and you have to report when you are transporting them unless you have special exceptions.



You, however, cannot just walking around in a crowd of people with gun strapped to you and I really have no problem with that. I do not believe guns are for shooting people and that is what that action is suggesting.

Tracy - posted on 08/18/2009

Jeannette:



Currently, about 5.2% of Australian adults (765,000 people)[1] own and use firearms for purposes such as hunting, controlling feral animals, collecting and target shooting.



Like I said earlier we are not allowed to shoot intruders otherwise we will be the ones locked up.



Gun culture is very different here and I think you will have hard time convincing me and alot of Australians that our guns laws are too strict. I think we all have to agree to disagree. :)