Homeopathy

Minnie - posted on 03/03/2011 ( 44 moms have responded )

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Quackery? Or a valid way to manage health?



Apparently a substance is diluted in water time and again until only a few molecules or none at all remain in the water- and with each dilution the solution is shaken. I have heard that the theory is that water retains a 'memory' of the substance that was dissolved in it. It's also based on the principal of similars- in which like heals like.



So are people just buying a really expensive bottle of water or sugar tablet or is there something more to our physical world that Western science and medicine has yet to discover?



I also found this- apparently there are certain things which can supposedly antidote the power of a homeopathic remedy:



1. mint (toothpaste, tea, etc) negates the power of homeopathics

2. metal (ie: remedy on a metal spoon) negates the power

3. touching a pellet with your skin negates the power



Edited to add:

Society of homeopaths:



What is homeopathy?

http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/about-home...

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Sara - posted on 03/03/2011

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Quackery. Homeopathy does not pass the same objective and statistical rigor as scientifically derived treatments. The best way to test any proposed therapy is the Double-Blind placebo-Controlled Randomised Trial.



Homeopathy could certainly do double blind testing. But even just thinking about how to do it immediately shows the near-impossibility of homeopathy working. A central tenet of homeopathy is that the more dilute the ingredient, the more effective it is. For the allegedly most effective dosages, the dilution is so extreme that, in order to have any appreciable likelihood of ingesting even one molecule of the original ingredient, you would need to drink a volume equal to all the matter in the solar system. It seems ordinary tap water would have more than homeopathic traces of any random ingredient you care to name.



After knowing that, I think it's reasonable to say that there will be no reliable chemical difference between the experimental dose and the control dose. So. I honestly just don't buy it.

[deleted account]

Well its scientifically proven that the same form of energy is in everything living in the world. We are all connected. Spirituality has nothing to do with religion. Its our connection to the universe,the energy within, not a "god"

Minnie - posted on 03/03/2011

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I respect your beliefs, but I just don't see how that can be proven, the lack of our bodies being connected to our souls and that is why homeopathy doesn't work for everyone.

What do the athiests do?

Or am I misinterpreting your definition of soul, perhaps? :)

[deleted account]

Homeopathic remedies are just one aspect of medicine. People dissect medicine into different aspects which causes each individual thing to not work. Medicine as a whole needs to be brought together. Each section only works with specifics. Everything is connected in our bodies so why separate the treatments. If your child was crying because of an emotional problem, you wouldn't plug their tear ducts and say problem solved. Why only treat the result of an issue without fixing the actual issue.
Most people need to treat their souls because emotional or spiritual upset is manifesting in physical form. Some things we can't fix within ourselves because the earth is also suffering, which effects our health. Remedies only mask the problem. They treat the symptoms not the cause. Living a holistic lifestyle, balancing your mind body and spirit, THEN treating symptoms if they still exist. Our bodies are no longer self sufficient because we are disconnected from our true selves. Any form of treatment will not work to its full potential if our bodies are not connected to our souls. Thats why it wont work for everyone.

Jocelyn - posted on 03/03/2011

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I don't have tons of experience in homeopathy, but I will swear up and down that Arnica, Pulsatilla and Nux Vomica work wonders :D I will generally try a natural remedy first, then a homeopathic remedy, then a chemical.

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[deleted account]

I also have fibromyalgia, which has largely opened my eyes to alternative medicines. I wouldn't call anything "quackery" till I gave it an honest try, and those rigorously tested medicines aren't always so great. Just look at all the side affects and long term damage they can do to your body. Modern medicine is great but far from perfected. I might have what you would consider to be a mild case of fibro now, but that's not how it started. I was nearly incapacitated until I changed just about everything in my life, diet, exercise and even how I handle stress. I can't always control and still have bad days, but it's far better now that I take care of my body naturally. Not saying this works for everyone, but you really do have to be open to everything and put the work in, because quick fixes only address the symptom not the condition. I would be careful with words like quackery, that's what they used to call a lot of treatments that are proven to work today.

Michael - posted on 02/09/2013

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i suggest schussler salts 5+6 going very deep but keep under your tongue for couple of minutes.

[deleted account]

Exactly! All of our bodies are so different. It is so important for all health care professionals to come together on that. But alas, there is a major percentage that still relies on algorithms set by their med school teaching, World Health Org., and AMA. My combo is different from yours. I can't handle cannibis (severe nausea)! Nor can I handle opiates (or much of them), so I could never get hooked, I get debilitating headaches.

Mrs. - posted on 03/04/2011

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Nope, they tried a series of things, Lyrica, Demerol, the whole anti-depressant route to help with the nerves, the anti-seizure stuff that sometimes works for fibro, they even tried synthetic pot. It was a hard year trying to get it right but now they have me on a low dose painkiller with a slow release. I'd be more specific in a PM but it works for me. Thank God.

[deleted account]

Yes with a kid it's really tough. Especially since he gets upset when I'm sick. He acts out, I get notifies from school that he's involved in something completely atypical of him. So I have to act "all together and just fine" for his sake. He's only five/six, so I know in time he'll be better able to handle it.

I know this is not homeopathy, but I do beleive in doing what you love. The endorphin release and natural increase of seratonin are one of the best ways to combat pain, fatigue and so many other problems.

What did you replace Tramadol with? Voltarin?

Mrs. - posted on 03/04/2011

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Yeah, I used to take Tramadol -it was really effective until I developed a heart problem from it. They took me off it and put me on something else that hasn't messed with my heart. Like I said, I'm really sensitive.



Yeah, I hear ya, I gave up on the eastern med thing because I went to a couple acupuncturists who were awful. One made my head bleed badly - I was leaking from my scalp and she was like, "It's normal, don't worry."



Idiot.



I'm just really lucky to have found an amazing healer who makes it better and doesn't ever judge my "it hurts everywhere thanks very much" days. I know it's not like that for everyone though and I'm glad there are other things out there for people (if it is homeopathy then that's awesome).



Back at you, it's no easy life - especially with a kid. Still, I've been lucky to have had a lot of good days lately. That's all you can hope for.

[deleted account]

If you are talking about adding water to a water solution (titration) there is NO scientific basis for the belief of "molecular memory" or the existance of an equally effective level of the solute in the solution.

It does not sound like a viable statement, or idea as the hypothesis has been tested billions of times. Where would someone get such a strange idea???

[deleted account]

Yoga is a fantastic way to heal your body. I do kundalini yoga.It focuses on spinal alignment, i have a bad back and it basically cures my pain. Plus i dont need a chiropractor as long as i do yoga :P

[deleted account]

Rebecca, oh yes I've tried acupuncture with diligence and was not relieved, but I was more relaxed. but I can do yoga at home and get the same result. It's the pampering effect, like after a good facial or treatment you are nice and relaxed. But pain is not relieved or prevented. I had one acupuncturist ask me (as they treat systems for your pain area), "where is your pain usually, and where do you hurt?" to which I responded honestly, "from one day to the next I can't tell you, but this week I had pain everywhere." She just looked at me with frustration and disbelief. LOL! You name it! It hurts, so she had needles everywhere! I also hate the ear pins, Holy Hanna they hurt.

Water therapy exhausts me for some reason, my CFS tendencies are aggravated by the hot pool for some ODD reason. But I can swim laps in a cool Olympic pool if I go slow and steady!

My best treatment is my passion for animals. I just got back into horses after a 15 year hiatus and seriously, if it can be considered "natural" or homeopathic treatment, I feel so much better in the company of my horses.

Bless ya and I hope you have many "good days!". Also Thank GOD for Tramadol. ;))

Mrs. - posted on 03/04/2011

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Kris, for my really bad Fibro I use painkillers but I also use acupuncture/eastern medicine. Sometimes the later works best. If you haven't given it a try (I don't know maybe you have), you never know, it might work for you too.

[deleted account]

I have severe Fibro. I have friends who manage their pain and nausea with holistic methods. I truly beleive they are not as affected as I am or possibly were misdiagnosed. I cannot manage without pain relievers. I just don't buy it all.

When anyone brings up homeopathy, I think of the quacks touting Eastern Medecine to cancer patients like Gilda Radner and it obviously did not work for her. Another reference is "Man on the Moon" when Andy Kaufman goes to the Phillipines to see the "bare handed surgeon".

It also makes me sick and sad for some people who believe in it while it is most likely harming them and they fail to get treatment with legitimate medical professionals.

As an ethical matter: children should NEVER be given homeopathic remedys that are potentially harmfula or are meant to replace Western Medical acre that could prevent or treat their condition. That is my sore spot.

[deleted account]

I don't know enough on the issue. But I do believe in aromatherapy for better life. It is so pleasant.

I do not believe it is a replacement for critical medical situations.

Amy - posted on 03/04/2011

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i've used some homeopathic stuff - but the alcohol based. i know there are sugar ones but any time i'm sick any form of sugar makes me worse.

i understood it as "like cures like" - similar to vaccination theory.

i usuallly go by vitamins and herbs. homeopathy i do for teething kiddo.

Sara - posted on 03/04/2011

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I don't really buy the argument that because some things have been around longer than Western medicine, then that means they're necessarily more effective. Are we going to start bleeding people again when they're ill? That's been around longer than Tylenol, but you know, I think I'll stick with the tylenol. I just think that line of reasoning is faulty. I believe in science and the procedures that scientists have put in place in order to bring new treatments and new medicines to people. People that practice "holistic" medicine don't have to be licensed, nor do they have to have any kind of education in order to practice. A lot of the techniques and treatments given have gone through no rigorous testing to prove efficacy and safety. If it works so well, why haven't trials been done?

[deleted account]

Pollution exists and causes problems. We cant balance that aspect without a lot of work and others helping. Most people dont give a shit though they are too busy making money.

Iridescent - posted on 03/03/2011

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But once those things are "balanced", there would be no need for a homeopathic remedy, would there? Because the problem is already fixed.

[deleted account]

Dairy would be a reason for any treatment, even conventional medicine, to fail. If any underlying problem isn't fixed, if only the symptoms are treated, the problem is still there, just masked.

For example, treating an insomniac by giving them something to sleep is the worst thing you could do to cure the person. That creates a dependency on an external "cure" instead of teaching the body to be self sufficient. Looking at their diet, exercise, coping skills, and internal feelings and relationship the environment(social) and with ones self would be where to start.Only after those things were balanced, the homeopathic remedy coffea would be beneficial.

Minnie - posted on 03/03/2011

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I guess, Julianne, what I'm getting, is that with something like this anyone can claim any reason for them not working, because we can't prove it. Yes science has proven we are made of the same stuff. That makes sense, we all arose from the same planet. But someone could say that homeopathy didn't work for so-and-so because he or she chose to eat cottage cheese with strawberry sauce for breakfast that morning.



I mean, naturopaths already claim other things that antidote homeopathic remedies. Mint...apparently you can't even smell mint before using the remedy or it will negate it. Or you can't use metal with it, or touch it. What else?

Jenn - posted on 03/03/2011

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Yes Johnny - that was the show. I remember them claiming that they hadn't invented the technology yet to look at something that small (or however they worded it). I'm sorry - but *cough* bullshit *cough

And what you are saying Julianne is basically like I said - mind over matter. It's a placebo effect. If you think it will work, it might seem to be effective.

Mrs. - posted on 03/03/2011

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A bit out of context if you haven't seen the episode on holistic healing but...

Mrs. - posted on 03/03/2011

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I've never used them. I'll use herbs and other things that have a long history of being effective. My body is super sensitive to sugar and the like. A sugar pill on the regular would probably be bad news for me.

I think there are a mix of people out there in the natural medicine field. Some are skilled and follow practices that have a long history (many longer than western medicine's) of working. Others are selling Cherokee Hair Tampons (if you get the South Park reference).

So, I guess it could work but I'd be wary of this one.

April - posted on 03/03/2011

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I haven't tried much of anything to really have an opinion. Without having experimented on myself, I'm just going to lean towards quackery.

[deleted account]

If we work on our inner spirit, through meditation and thought control, our outer selves, the physical body, benefits from it.

Tawny - posted on 03/03/2011

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My MIL is a firm believer in homeopathy. We use Arnica, Chamomilla these seem to work really well. Especially the Arnica my 3 year old is always getting bumps and bruises and cuts he is a little boy into everything :) but I have given him Arnica and in a day the swelling, bruising is gone and the Chamomilla I am giving to my 5 month old for his teething since the teething tablets were recalled so this works really well.

Jocelyn - posted on 03/03/2011

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Homeopathic doesn't work on everyone, and even I prefer a tincture of something as opposed to a homeopathic pellet!

Iridescent - posted on 03/03/2011

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Jocelyn, we also prefer a natural remedy first. I just don't do the homeopathic ones, since it's a useless step! :)

Iridescent - posted on 03/03/2011

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Quacks. I've looked it up many times, many ways. I've looked at pros and cons. It just simply doesn't work any better than the placebo effect people get from using deoderant from a red bottle vs a blue one, or a sugar pill for pain. So why waste my time and effort and money?

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2011

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I think I saw that same show Jenn, was it on Marketplace on CBC? They did all sorts of tests and in many of them could find absolutely no trace of any medicinal ingredient even in the smallest amount testable. The manufacturer just claimed that the tests were unable to read small enough amounts to detect it. But the scientists were pointing out that it the test couldn't detect it, your body wouldn't either.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/03/2011

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Huh...I just looked up Homeopathy, and I always thought it was simply alternative medicine style thing. Guess not. This is a really interesting thought...I don'w know what I think. This is a totally different thing than what I thought it was.

Minnie - posted on 03/03/2011

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I'm not sure how to explain it more....homeopathic remedies are substances dissolved into water. Then the water is diluted. Each time it is diluted the solution is shaken. The belief is that this causes the water to retain a memory of the substance. Eventually, there is little to nothing of the original substance left in the water. The remedy can be in liquid form or it coats the outside of a sugar pill. Dosages appear in the form of things like 10C, 100C, 1000C, with each higher number meaning a higher number of dilutions- and it is believed that the higher the number of dilutions the more powerful the remedy.



The substances that are dissolved into the water are supposed to create similar symptoms of whatever is ailing the particular person and the belief is that this causes the body to heal itself.



LOL! I'm sorry if I'm totally confusing everyone. I tend to lean towards it being quackery, but then I hear about people insisting it works. But it's all anectodal, and sometimes people try remedy after remedy, and like Jenn said, that probably just is enough time for the body to heal itself. I don't see how water retains a memory.

Jenn - posted on 03/03/2011

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I saw something on TV not long ago and they tested several homeopathic tablets/concoctions and the results were basically that it was sugar pills. Sounds like a great scam to me. I think much of what people feel from taking things is the mind over matter factor - that and more time has passed for them to just get over whatever is wrong in the first place - but they then thank the "medicine", when really it did nothing but alleviate their mind.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/03/2011

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I guess I am still confused...could you give an exact example of what you are referring to as homeopathic?

Minnie - posted on 03/03/2011

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No, not herbs. Homeopathy. I explained how they create homeopathic remedies above.

Nadia - posted on 03/03/2011

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so are you talking about natural remedies for illnesses, such as herbs and plants and such? Because i totally think its valid. But there is a time for medications and pharmecutical drugs, such as cancers and other life-threatening diseases. However, to cure the common cold i'd rather resort to a healthy dose of Echinacea and a few extra oranges a day than load up on Advil and Tylenol. I think it's all about balance.

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2011

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Years ago I took a homeopathic flu remedy and it did seem to work fairly well. But it's really hard to know with something like the flu, because all those viruses are so different and have various intensities and symptoms. I have seen quite a bit of research recently saying that they are quackery, so I don't bother spending the money anymore. It certainly did not work at all for my daughter's teething pain, although the colic stuff the doctor gave us to try did help. I don't know. I certainly don't have the medical knowledge to assess the truth. Who knows if it works or if it's just coincidence when you are just one person trying a remedy a couple of times. That sort of anecdotal experience is really not evidence of efficacy. I tend to believe that it probably doesn't given all the studies that have shown thus. But if you use a remedy and it seems to work well for you and has no concerning side effects, I see no reason not to do it except for the extra money you need to spend.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/03/2011

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What you edited to add is very interesting. I do believe in homeopathic healing, along side of medical care. There is a balance...and being able to know when to stop using one or the other to find another source for a cure is a very tricky thing. Those that are medically inclined, don't want to try any homeopathic stuff becouse they don't believe it works. Those that are strictly for homeopathic course, don't want to "pollute" themselves with what a doctor may have to offer. It is a difficult balance.

Minnie - posted on 03/03/2011

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Oh- sorry- I'm talking about homeopathic remedies- hmmm....some people use this, and I think it's based in oriental medicine. Molecules of a substance that is supposed to create a similar response in the body of whatever is ailing a person are dissolved and shaken into water, then diluted time and again. They are also taken in pill form.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/03/2011

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I am kinda confused...what specifically are you talking about being dissolved in water? Are you making a general statement about how water supplies are contaminated, or talking about things like Emergen-c that we drink? I am lost...sorry..head cold.

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