Homeschooling/Unschooling

Mother - posted on 02/28/2012 ( 283 moms have responded )

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We've been homeschooling for about 4 years now. We love it. Does anyone else do this?? What are your opinions of unschooling?? Do any of you unschool??

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Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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"Aside from them, virtually everyone on your list was educated before the advent of easily available public school educations" -- School was around long before 1920. that being said.....



I disagree. Whether the public school system was available, mandatory or not is irrelevant. Some of our most brilliant minds to date came from people who were homeschooled. Their parents taught them or they learned on their own. THAT is the point.



MeME, just because I don't know any geniuses personally matters not. In that list there are about 6 geniuses. You wanted geniuses that were current, I only knew of one. That doesn't mean more don't exist but I certainly wasn't going to go through the entire list and google them all to find out if they ranked...genius. And since you're so good with semantics I'm sure if I listed someone as a genius and they were in fact a polymath, you'd find that an area to argue. The point was......you don't NEED groups in order to learn.

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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Damn it MeMe.....damn you and your long winded posts!!! I thought I had a keeper there!!! LOL

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2012

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LOL @ Dr. Quinn.



The point is that you can't list people who were home schooled successfully before the advent of public schooling as an example of the success of home schooling. I could take up every byte of memory in the COM system trying to list every person who was educated at home before that time who didn't succeed or become a famous scholar/writer/explorer etc. That wouldn't prove that homeschooling was a bad thing, now would it?

Merry - posted on 03/03/2012

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I don't think it really matters if there was public schools readily available or not ladies, the point is homeschooling works. Parents are capable of helping their kids learn and become great.

Even back in the years of 1800 or so kids went to school. Ever watch little house on the prairie? Dr Quinn? Their kids went to schools.

I think the fact is, statistics show homeschooling works.

Unschooling is used as a label for a broad range of teaching styles and the bad ones barely teach their kids anything, the good ones I feel are the best taught kids out there.

Merry - posted on 03/03/2012

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Meme I think these soft skills you speak of are learned from parents, not teachers.

I highly doubt a school could take credit for an adult having personable and likable skills. This is most likely set up in the child before they enter school and I would bet it comes from how their parents treat them.

All the homeschooled adults I know of are well spoken, polite, self motivated, free thinking, dedicated, type people and honestly the people I see comming out of homeschooling are the types of people I want my kids to be like.

Here in my area of Wisconsin.

And I LOVE that list! Wonderful to see the successes of home education.

My own mini list of personal experiences looks like this.

-My sister Bethany is on her last year of grad school and she is earning her PhD in particle physics. She taught herself most everything in math and science and took a few college courses in highschool for physics

-a friend Joel is in Perdue college for physics too but in a aeronautic field

-a friend Jill is in college to become a missionary nurse with a minor in Spanish

-my brother Kevin is in college with an engineering major

-my cousin Nate in in highschool but planning on going into a music program this summer

-my husband is working through college as a sales man but going for a degree in criminal justice

-a friend pierce is in a film school

-a friend Evan is a director editor producer guy with a few movies out

- a friend Ryan is working, has a college degree but idk what in

-and then there's me, no college degree and I'm a stay at home mom.

I'm the only homeschooler I know of who didn't go to college.

And the kicker? We are all religious people! We weren't taught evolution as fact, we were 'sheltered'

And yet we all (mostly) went to college and have goals in the work force.



So IMO homeschooling works well. Even with a bit of sheltering and religion :) just not too much of either. We can wear pants. Lol

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/03/2012

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And thanks Johnny, I was just settling in to attest the long list Mother B. provided, just had to get my boy to bed first. I figured it may take me a while but, that is one short list in comparison. Now that it is accurate... ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/03/2012

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Nope - I think I have had longer posts.... LOL Try again ;)



Against the grain, as you have many different approaches on many subjects, than the majority. ;) Didn't mean anything by it, in any means, just pointing it out.



Thanks for the list, now how many geniuses were home schooled and how many geniuses DID go to school? That was your original point in the post I questioned. It is what I asked about. I wasn't asking for a list of people that were homeschooled and who you find impressive. Unfortunately that is a personal opinion, I don't neccesarily find all those you listed as impressive, sorry...



Anyhow, I will say I have no issue with homeschooling. It is not my kid, so it does not directly affect me or my children. Other than it makes more space in the public schooling system, which is a good thing for my children. The system is too over-loaded and the less per class the better. It may affect the society they live in once they are adults, I don't know. It all depends on how many homeschooler's are good at teaching and truly ensuring their children are learning appropriately to fit the world they will enter in adulthood. I agree, there are definitely some but there are definitely other's that do it for all the wrong reasons. It is these children that will be affected later in life. Not mine or those that were homeschooled properly.

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2012

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Kelly B., if you had read my post you would have seen that I am getting much of my information from a local homeschooler and from my own searches into local homeschooling networks. I don't know what goes on back east, it's rather far from my area of knowledge, not even having many real life friends in Ontario. But I do know my local area. The area to the east of me, likely where much of those homeschooling resources you are speaking of comes from, is the most religious, parochial, and conservative region of BC. But the region in which I live, those people are quite in the minority. As well, as I mentioned, there are a few homeschooling networks in my local area, but the secular ones are very small according to the individual I know who is a member of a couple of them.



As well, the homeschooling association is not "blended" with the school district. Homeschooling curriculum is closely governed and monitored by our local school districts, none of which are religious (BC does not have the same set up as Alberta & Ontario).



Just a note, according to the Fraser Institute, a local conservative think tank which supports homeschooling, just 0.4% of Canadian children are homeschooled at any point in their education. So it may seem a lot when you go to your little conventions, but statistically they are insignificant.



Just to your last list of famous "home schooled" people. It would really only be appropriate to list people from the 1920's onward when public education became mandatory and free. Before that time, most people were home schooled. So let's see how that looks:



Michelle Kwan

Jason Taylor

Tim Tebow

Serena Williams

Venus Williams

Alex Haley

Margret Atwood

Dave Thomas

Ray Kroc (maybe - on the cusp)

Alan Alda

Christina Aguilera*

Dakota Fanning*

Hanson*

Hillary Duff*

Jennifer Love Hewitt*

Justin Timberlake*

LeAnne Rimes*

(*of course many child stars - Disney stars are set taught)

Whoopi Goldberg



Aside from them, virtually everyone on your list was educated before the advent of easily available public school educations and before the advent of public high schools. If there hadn't been any geniuses or great thinkers before public education, we wouldn't have much of a civilization. It doesn't tell us anything except for that it is possible for home schooled individuals to do just fine or excel. Which I don't think anyone was arguing against.

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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Oh crap....no worries Jodi. On the internet it is so difficult to distinguish intonation and if someone is joking or being sarcastic or just being an ass. No offence taken. I've done the EXACT same thing.

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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Well MeMe....I'm not sure what you meant by..." I see you do like against the grain approaches though. ;)" but...meh...



No, I don't know any geniuses personally but why on earth would that matter.?? Erik Demaine is pretty current but I don't personally know him either. While I'm not sure what all their IQ's are there are some pretty impressive people in the 'homeschooled' category. Pascal, Einstein, Benjamin Franklin...



Artists

Claude Monet

Grandma Moses

Leonardo da Vinci

Rembrandt Peale



Athletes

Michelle Kwan

Jason Taylor

Tim Tebow

Serena Williams

Venus Williams



Authors

Agatha Christie

Alex Haley

Beatrix Potter

C.S. Lewis

Charles Dickens

George Bernard Shaw

Hans Christian Anderson

Louisa May Alcott

Margaret Atwood

Mark Twain

Phillis Wheatley

Pearl S. Buck

Robert Frost

Virginia Woolf



Businessmen

Andrew Carnegie

Colonel Harland Sanders

Dave Thomas

Joseph Pulitzer

Ray Kroc



Composers

Felix Mendelssohn

Irving Berlin

John Philip Sousa

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart



Entertainers

Alan Alda

Charlie Chaplin

Christina Aguilera

Dakota Fanning

Hanson

Hillary Duff

Jennifer Love Hewitt

Justin Timberlake

LeAnne Rimes

Louis Armstrong

Whoopi Goldberg



Explorers

Davy Crockett

George Rogers Clark

(return to top)

Inventors

Alexander Graham Bell

Benjamin Franklin

Cyrus McCormick

Eli Whitney

Thomas Edison

Orville Wright

Wilbur Wright



Military Leaders

Douglas MacArthur

George Patton

John Paul Jones

Robert E. Lee

Stonewall Jackson

Matthew Perry

(return to top)

Photographers

Ansel Adams



Presidents

Abraham Lincoln

Andrew Jackson

Franklin Delano Roosevelt

George Washington

Grover Cleveland

James Garfield

James Madison

John Adams

John Quincy Adams

John Tyler

Theodore Roosevelt

Thomas Jefferson

William Henry Harrison

Woodrow Wilson



Religious Leaders

Brigham Young

Dwight L. Moody

Joan of Arc

John & Charles Wesley

William Carey



Scientists

Albert Einstein

Blaise Pascal

Booker T. Washington

George Washington Carver

Pierre Curie



Statesman

Alexander Hamilton

Daniel Webster

Patrick Henry

William Jennings Bryan

William Penn

Winston Churchill



Supreme Court Judges

John Jay

John Marshall

John Rutledge

Sandra Day O'Connor



Women

Abigail Adams, wife of John Adams

Clara Barton, started the red cross

Florence Nightingale, nurse

Martha Washington, wife of George Washington

Susan B. Anthony, women's rights leader



Famous Homeschooling Parents

Lisa Whelchel

Kelley Preston and John Travolta

Will and Jada Pinkett Smith

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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Ah, makes sense now....sorry. I had no clue where you were going with it, and I just saw the context it was in here, and jumped. So I do apologise for jumping down your throat.



I can honestly understand why some people homeschool, because I don't believe schools suit everyone's learning style, but schools here ARE trying to make it more individualised so that this is addressed. I still believe there need to be certain outcomes that need to be achieved (which is where a curriculum comes in), but the "how" of getting there can vary individually for students.



Anyway, they are my beliefs. I think if I wasn't seeing that in my kids' schools, and they were struggling with issues that couldn't be resolved through meetings with teachers, or whatever, I would be considering homeschooling too. But I am seeing my kids growing, both are very happy, and the system of education here is very suitable for them.

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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No, not at all. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I honestly thought you were a teacher...so I was curious if the homeschoolers were in your school. There is such programs here...

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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My apologies, I picked up a different tone in that post, particularly given that you were originally questioning the integrity of my post. Context and all that.

Tracey - posted on 03/03/2012

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Krista, are you saying that if other people not of your religion choose to teach their kids according to their religion, then that's child neglect? If someone is going to grow up to be a plumber, or a hairdresser, or even an engineer, is it really going to keep them from getting a job to believe that the moon is made of green cheese? It's most certainly not child neglect. I don't see these denim-clad big-haired homeschoolers running around unemployed, seriously.

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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WHOA....did I hit a nerve? I never insinuated you were lying. I simply thought you were a teacher. In this very thread you said while I was working on my teaching degree.....from that I presumed you were a teacher.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/03/2012

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And how many geniuses do you know Mother B.? These guys (Eintstein) are historical. Name a few from recent past or current now. Seriuosly, it is important to learn in groups, whether you like it or not. The vast majority learn this way. I see you do like against the grain approaches though. ;)

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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Um, no, I am studying my Graduate Diploma, but that doesn't preclude that my husband and I operate two businesses. Even if I was a teacher it doesn't preclude that, What is this, the Spanish Inquisition? I really resent your inferrence that I am lying and I would appreciate, please, if it would stop. I mean, seriously, as I said, why on earth would I lie about it and what the fuck would I possibly have to gain by it?

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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"Ah, you must have missed this part "including our own business,".-- I thought you were working as a teacher Jodi...

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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"I realize it is a big thing in the US and some of the bible belt areas in Canada, but here, it's not really a consideration. We are wanting to fight for our schools to work, not abandon them." -- THAT is such a false statement. I live in Canada and there are oodles of homeschooled children. I've belonged to 3 homeschooling associations just here in our small rural area. I know Toronto and Hamilton has a huge homeschooling population and actually the convention is being held in Hamilton this year.



Good grief, the best curriculum is offered from out west. BC supplies fantastic home educators support and materials. they have a homeschooling association christian and non-denominational, they have a home learners association AND they have a home schooling association that is blended with the public school board. LOL



So, I'm not sure where you're getting you information but whomever fed it to you was sadly misinformed.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/03/2012

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ahhh shit, another long winded reply... I often miss going back and counting the lines! LOL



sorry all....

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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"Not at all Jodi. However, the "Several people I know" could very well be if their 'opinion' about homeschooling falls in line with the 'myths'."



Ah, you must have missed this part "including our own business,".

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/03/2012

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Laura, I was also coming from my experience being in a Canadian schooling system. I cannot speak for the US or any other Country. My schooling experience was quite excellent and so far so is my daughter's. I also provide extra at home when need be. If, she is having difficulty and requires a bit more help. However, I honestly can say our public school system is quite good. Yes, there are some area's as Johnny has pointed out that can be worked on, such as the special needs area.



I have every single teacher's email address and they all have mine. They ask for all parents email at the beginning of the year and they send reports on what projects were given that day, what work was passed back, even whether your child came to class prepared or unprepared for the days of that week. They absolutely try to keep the parents involved as much as possible. If ever, we the parent has a question, they are immediately ready to answer or help find the answer.



In regards to the social aspect. It is not untrue what I previously posted. I work for a large global corporation, they employee 50,000+ people and I will tell you having "soft" skills is the most important part of remaining a successful employee. "Hard" skills are important but they are not as important, they are what get your resume looked at, they are not, what get you hired. As long as you know the basics for that role, you are hired on your "soft" skills, nothing less nothing more. Someone that is very approachable with a hiree but only knows the basics for that role, will get hired long before someone that knows much more but is less approachable. If you are willing to learn the ropes and have the "soft" skills to interrelate with other's on a high level, the sky is the limit for how far and how fast you move up the ladder. This is one of the biggest reasons schools emphasize so strongly on "team" work and presentational skills. You must be able to interact with confidence and "play" fairly. You don't just learn those skills, you must be a part of a team from a small age to understand the dynamics of "team" work.



I am sorry but I disagree Laura, it is important to learn how to keep from being distracted when it is time to learn. This is how it will be in a "true" work place. You need to be able to tell yourself when it is time to relate with your colleague/classmate and when not to. Teachers help children learn how to do this. Also, in my home their is no relations (messing around) when homework is being done.



I learnt so much about who I am and who other's are and how it all works in the sense of interrelations , from being in school. I would not have learnt many of the things I did if I had been home. If I had only had a few hours here and there to practice and learn these skills. School is very important, especially a public school, IMO. You aren't going to get to choose who you work with. You are going to need to know how to deal with all sorts, not just some, all.



However, we also don't have the same issues as some other Countrie's when it comes to public schooling. The teacher's I have ever came across in my 32 years of scholastic experience here in Canada, are very "in love" with what they do and how they do it...

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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Not at all Jodi. However, the "Several people I know" could very well be if their 'opinion' about homeschooling falls in line with the 'myths'.

Krista - posted on 03/03/2012

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if we're a nation based on religious freedom, and a family really wants to teach their kids that the moon is made of green cheese and is named Ralph, then *they are free to do so*, no matter how mistaken you think that is.



Technically, yes, they are free to do so. But in my own opinion, that would qualify as child neglect. They are neglecting to provide a basic necessity of life: the ability for the child to function outside of the home. That is why I believe that homeschooling should at least have a base standard of regulation in place, so that children of crazy people at least have a fighting chance.

Renee - posted on 03/03/2012

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We use a variety of things. Teaching Textbooks for math grades 3 and up. Story of the World for history. Apologia for High School Biology....

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2012

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We have a large number of religious private schools here that may fill that void. Muslim schools, Sikh schools, Catholic schools, Protestant schools, and even a Buddhist school. We have schools that cater to French, Spanish, Mandarin and Cantonese speakers as well. We have mini-schools that cater to gifted students and a lot of other special programs. We have a couple schools (public and private) that work helping kids with dyslexia. Our schools do have their problems, primarily enough services for special needs kids, but people are fighting to fix it rather than pulling their kids.

Tracey - posted on 03/03/2012

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Johnny, that's very interesting to know. In my area, in the U.S. Midwest in a major city, there are quite literally dozens of homeschooling support groups and co-ops in the area, running the gamut of unschoolers to very structured with Latin and Logic instruction. A study after the last census found my city to have be the most religiously diverse area of the U.S. (really shocking New Yorkers) in terms of the numbers of religions and denominations of various religions. That probably explains why there's a Muslim homeschooling group, and an Indian one, and several varieties of unschooling ones.



Yes, Austalian systems are very different than ours. Ours have been failing for years, and especially parents who have their kids older and have heard "we're working to improve the schools" and seen their taxes hiked while things slide, and with all the violence from both kids and teachers, and stupid zero-tolerance rules (jail a kindergartner because his grandma packed a plastic knife to spread his peanut butter on his crackers with--true, in my city)--those parents have been hearing it for years while things have gotten worse. So many of us don't want to wait 12 years while our own kids get a poor education and risk being victims of violence. So homeschooling has been on the rise here for years. Not worth letting your own child slip through the cracks for an ideal that doesn't seem likely to ever happen.

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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I will also add, that the majority of the homeschool statistics in Australia would be the result of proximity to a decent school (or any school at all). As you know, we are a sparsely populated country, so it makes absolute sense that some people homeschool. It has become an alternative to boarding school for many, especially now that we have so many online resources to help kids, where parents can't help.

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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Tracey, I am in Australia, so it isn't as common here (maybe 1% at most). From what I understand, our school system is very different to yours.



This is a homeschool group, so we know they are homeschooled. But there are parents who homeschool for the wrong reasons. I was simply making an observation on this particular group.



So essentially, just like kids who go to school, there are well behaved ones and not so well behaved ones.

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2012

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I realize it is a big thing in the US and some of the bible belt areas in Canada, but here, it's not really a consideration. We are wanting to fight for our schools to work, not abandon them.

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2012

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Tracey, I come from Vancouver. I know a woman who is involved in our local non-religious homeschooling network, which consists of about 40 families, although not all of those are full-time homeschoolers. She has told me that there is another group, mostly unschoolers, but that she left because while she is a unschooling her teenage son (who I do think is a good fit for it) she actually found most of the kids were really just drop-outs whose parent's didn't think they needed school. Hardcore "alternative-living" families, some of them "free livers".



Otherwise in my city, there is a Catholic homeschooling group and a Christian one. That's it. Aside from her and her son, I have never met a single homeschooled kid outside of when I volunteered at Science World and the fundies from the valley would bring their brats in to show them how evil science was.

Tracey - posted on 03/03/2012

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That may be, Jodi. I can't see your full profile, so I'm not sure which country you're talking about? It's pretty common here. The government says it's 2-3% of all kids, but in several states there is no registration or enrollment requirement--at least a fifth of all states--so they really don't know. In my state, my organization estimates the numbers are at least double to triple the numbers the government has (we have voluntary enrollment number reporting, and I only know a handful of people who have done it). We run into other homeschoolers every single time we're out during the day (not necessarily going to homeschooling events, but perhaps running an errand on the way to or from one).



Jonny, I know several Canadian homeschoolers that do not fit the mold you describe. I'm on two different worldwide homeschooling lists. One of these homeschoolers, from Toronto, just came through my city on the way to visit relatives further south and west of me. They're homeschooling because their kids are highly gifted but have learning disabilities, and the schools just aren't equipped to deal with them. Highly gifted kids still struggle when they have a learning disability like dysgraphia (a disconnect that causes trouble with writing but not reading), but because they're gifted they cover it up well. They might perform at nearly normal, but with great effort, and not really reach their potential. Most schools worldwide see the "nearly normal" and don't worry about it, because the child is not obviously failing badly. This is actually one of the major reasons that parents everywhere pull their kids out of school to homeschool them, not to "shelter" them. But, as the guy in the video noted below; "So what if they don't know who Lady Gaga is? Can you imagine a world without Lady Gaga? It would be like...heaven!"



In fact, you might not realize many of the kids you're seeing are homeschooled, because they come across as normal--although well-behaved-- kids (well-behaved kids are no longer the norm in many areas). Recently, I've heard comments from people who have met my kids that it's so cool to meet student leaders who are obviously doing so well in school! This happened once when we were on the way to a game and my daughter had her cheerleading uniform on. We had to stop for something, and someone in line near us started talking to her, and said her daughter had had to drop cheer because of their being so many "mean girls" on her squad. My daughter said "My squad's not like that." The lady responded that it was nice that there were "schools around that weren't mean like hers was, and that there were still places to go that turned out nice, happy kids!" None of us said anything to tell her otherwise, but we laughed about it in the car.

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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Hmmm....weird. I have never ever heard anything but how polite and well behaved homeschoolers are. I think I find that comment less then believable....

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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"I often hear "Oh, we're not concerned about the behavior of *your* group, since it's a group of homeschoolers." I've heard this from all kinds of museums and companies! "



I just want to say that I have heard the opposite about homeschooled kids in this country - several people I know, including our own business, have had them in and they have been unruly brats. Now, whether that's because it is such a rarity in this country that they are often homeschooled for the wrong reasons, I don't know, and this IS only personal anectdote, but I just thought I would share.

Johnny - posted on 03/03/2012

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I suppose part of my opposition is that here, homeschooling is not common, and it is generally done by parents who are choosing to isolate their children from the secular heathen homosexual rights supporters who run our schools. It is about isolation and making sure that their kids are not being exposed to the evils of secular thought. The few who aren't are generally trying to help their kids avoid bullying, which is understandable, but I personally believe strongly in making the change you want to see, not just avoiding things.



I do think that some homeschooling can be good, like part-time studies at home, or a year or two here and there. But I strongly believe that at least in Canada, our school system has benefited our society immensely. It isn't perfect, but that is why we should fight for it. Not run off to our bunkers. Perhaps I am also effected by having my own struggles and triumphs in public schooling. It taught me so much about life and how to succeed, beyond just what I learned in the classroom. But then, I'm not a utopianist at all, so it's just not my cup of tea.

Tracey - posted on 03/03/2012

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I'm seeing a big undercurrent of a stereotype here: homeschoolers are "sheltered" and "don't get out". Or that our kids don't learn teamwork. Or that they never take classes with other kids. All *myths*.



This is such a stereotype, one that's debunked again and again. In fact, if you go to Zazzle or CafePress and do a search for "homeschool", you'll see dozens of different designs on the theme of "Why do they call it homeschooling when we're never at home?" It's pretty common for one kid to be doing schoolwork while waiting on another kid's activity, or in the car! In fact, I've heard so many homeschooling families complain about being overscheduled.



There are sports teams, academics teams, and all kinds of classes homeschooled kids are in. My own kids have been on baseball, gymnastic, football, cheer, and dance teams/ensembles. They've taken math, chemistry, drama, and Tai-Kwan-Do classes, sometimes with other homeschoolers and sometimes with the general public. There were far more behavioral issues and "drama" in the teams/classes with the general public, with the exception of the gymnastics team (all-boy competitive team). Most of the team sports were with the general public, while most of the classes were with other homeschoolers.



Being against homeschooling because you think kids are being isolated, being only taught by their parents, and/or aren't learning team dynamics is just not based on reality. Don't imagine that they're all fitting the stereotypes. Very few do. In fact, I've found that at least in my city, the ones that fit the stereotype of no-makeup mom in a denim jumper with her hair piled high on her head, girls in long skirts with long straight hair, boys in dress shirts and belted pants, are *not* homeschooled! I'm my county's homeschool liaison, as such I've circulated in many groups (and sometimes ask when I see families with school-aged kids in the middle of the day). These folks are far more likely to be using private Christian schools, if they can afford it.



And finally, the elephant in the room: if we're a nation based on religious freedom, and a family really wants to teach their kids that the moon is made of green cheese and is named Ralph, then *they are free to do so*, no matter how mistaken you think that is. The kids are going to learn otherwise eventually, and they may have some bad feelings about their parents. Or not. But that is their right! To try to make everyone believe the same thing is called "fascism". If you want freedom to believe what *you* believe and the freedom to raise your kids as *you* see fit, you have to extend that same freedom to others.

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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OMG Laura and Tracey....you are life savers. I just had a HUGE argument with my Father last night that did not end well. Needless to say I'm awaiting an apology that will probably never come....but meh....now I'm know I'm not alone in my way of thinking.

Merry - posted on 03/03/2012

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Meme I couldn't disagree more.

I feel the social aspect of school is its worst downfall.

Children are ment to learn from their parents, siblings, cousins, friends, not from a group of kids all the same age.

If that were the case we would have litters so each child gets many same age siblings.

School classes are IMO not really detrimental but they're not the be all and end all of childhood existence.

That is not the natural way kids learn.

That's what I loved about being homeschooled, it kept my education and social life seperate. When studying I could focus and when with my friends I could give them my full attention.

I'm not trying to socialize during math class and I'm not trying to do homework when I'm bonding with a friend.

That's a great thing IMO.

Tracey - posted on 03/03/2012

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There is a difference between "socializing" and "socialization". Socializing is hanging around with friends. Socialization is "the handing down of a society's mores, customs, norms, and expectations from one generation to another." Note that the second doesn't say "...from a classroom full of the 6-year-olds of mostly strangers living in the same zipcode to each other." This is why homeschoolers are usually noted for their polite behavior: they've been taught to behave by adults, really taught and not just told while having a completely opposite example and pressures with them and on them for most of their waking hours.



And it's more than just a passing "politeness" of looking up briefly from their DS and saying "hi", barely making eye contact, and going right back to the game. It's a sustained and sincere interest in the other person, because they've had many life lessons that people of all ages and backgrounds are interesting and worth listening to. This is what they learn when they're not in a same-age classroom most of their waking hours.



I get compliments on my kids' behavior every single time they're out, whether or not I'm with them (so that's daily). People will single me out to tell me good things about them, about how my son, 15, took time to help carry for an elderly person or listened to a small child, or how my daughter, 12, comforted someone or goes out of her way to be help. Or how my 7-year-old is a pleasure to have in a group. These are compliments that do not come from other homeschoolers.



But I do hear from other homeschooling moms the same kinds of compliments they get for their kids. And when I arrange homeschool field trips, I often hear "Oh, we're not concerned about the behavior of *your* group, since it's a group of homeschoolers." I've heard this from all kinds of museums and companies!

Mother - posted on 03/03/2012

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Interesting concept Jodi. Like MeMe....I disagree with one part as well. I don't think you need to be in groups to learn. Actually history has show us quite the opposite. Many geniuses had their best thoughts alone. Look at Einstein, he never had formal schooling. He was kicked out of more schools then he was in. That was until they realized he was a genius and then the best schools wanted him.



"I think it is sad that so many people here think that school is such a negative experience " -- I think it is sad that so many think that homeschooling is a negative experience.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/03/2012

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Very interesting Jodi. I don't necessarily agree with the ADHD portion. Since my kid was diagnosed in Kindergarten and was excessively hyper from 8 months and forward BUT I do agree that for many that are diagnosed, the education process is a large part of their downfalls.



I also agree, that education needs to change with how it is introduced but that it is not a bad experience in the whole. I learnt a lot about myself and other's by being a part of a large community rather than a singular or very small one. Being amongst peers is very important, IMO, more important than what is actually being taught in the class room. We are social beings and we need to know how to work ourselves in a social setting. In a work place, it is often not what you know but how you are able to relate to those around you. Yes, it is important to have knowledge of the job at hand but it is more important if you are able to properly socialize in any circumstance. You can learn the itellectual part as you go, you must be able to accurately and appropriately socialize first and foremost, or you will not be given the opportunity to learn and expand your intelligence. One of the biggest mind sets of top managers is "You can be taught what you need to know, you cannot be taught how to act and react". Also, "Team work is most important, this is how you get to learn the intellectual part of the position in hand". If you can contribute as a stand up team member, you will get more understanding and better perception of what is required to complete your task within your role as an employee. Too often people criticize how so many managers have no idea of the fundamental parts of a role and how it works, so how did they become manager or CEO? Well, they got there because they "know" how to relate to people (the employee's). They learnt through collaboration and team work how to do their job.



To me it is the social aspects of a school establishment that is key. The intellectual aspect is important but near as much as the social part. We cannot become a whole person, that is able to understand and empathise with everyone if we have not learnt through trial and error....

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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I just thought I would share this that I just watched if anyone is interested. This is the approach they are teaching in our Graduate Degree......It is actually a great clip, and gives a lot of understanding why some people may homeschool, and why education needs to change.



http://youtu.be/zDZFcDGpL4U

Jodi - posted on 03/03/2012

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I think it is sad that so many people here think that school is such a negative experience and that so many teachers don't care. That has never been my experience, not that of anyone I know. And that is in all the year of my schooling, my children's schooling, my siblings' schooling, and so on. Yes, there are occasional negative experiences, as there is with many things. I'm sure there will be negative experiences in homeschooling as well. But for most people, school isn't this one big negative experience that you make it out to be.



I wasn't suggesting that homeschooling was sheltering your children, because I don't believe that. However, if you are homeschooling so your children don't have any negative experiences in life, or so that you can eliminate negative influences (and please note that a negative influence is subjective to yourself - some view that as anything not within your religious doctrine), or even any influence other than that of the parents, you are homeschooling for the wrong reasons. Children need outside influences, both positive and negative, in order to grow.

Isobel - posted on 03/03/2012

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a) that is ONE home schooled kid...I'd be interested to hear from one of the girls whose lessons consisted of cooking and ironing.



b)I think that home schooling parents THINKI that regular parents judge them WAY more than homeschooling parents judge regular ones.



c) regulation hurts nobody. Children NEED to learn how to write tests IF they EVER want to go anywhere else other than their mother AND in order to make sure that SOME people aren't teaching their children NOTHING...we need to make sure everybody is teaching their child what they need to know.

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I don't see how homeschooling kids is really sheltering them in most cases. Most of these kids are still socializing with kids in their neighborhood, in homeschool groups and with a range of other people (from babies to adults). To put it another way: why do people feel kids need to be grouped into classes of 20 or so kids their exact same age in order to be "socialized"? Can you think of any other situation in life where people are grouped that way?



I agree with Jodi about the teachers not raising your kids, but I see that as part of the problem, not a positive. I remember many times being in school growing up and being upset about one thing or another and the teachers either: 1) not caring; or 2) being too busy to notice. I don't think that's particularly healthy to be in an environment where the adults who are there aren't in tuned to what is going on with a child. And I also tend to think a lot of the socialization that goes on in school is negative, particularly in the older grades. I'd rather have my kids have positive experiences rather than negative ones. For me personally, I also feel that much of the time spent in school was wasted on busy work and lectures about stuff I got in the first 10 minutes. There are so many more productive things that can be accomplished in a day!

Merry - posted on 03/02/2012

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I agree 100% with that last post Jodi.

I'm not as extreme as I may come accross. :)

Eric already deals with difficult situations, and I don't avoid kids just because they don't play nicely, I just mostly mean the extreme cases that happenat school yet the parents don't have a clue because their kid is gone so long and doesn't open up at home about things.

Proper involvement and open communication should eliminate the things I'm talking about.

Is not my main reason to homeschool.

Jodi - posted on 03/02/2012

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Laura, even young children need to start learning to deal with real life situations. You can't shelter a child all their life and let them loose on the world when they are 15 or 16 and hope they know how to deal with it. You still need to find a way to socialise your children before then, and over time, and allow them to learn to deal with unpleasant situations that crop up. As I said, it doesn't have to be school, but you can't shelter them entirely, that's not teaching them anything.

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