How do you feel about the Divided States of America?

America3437 - posted on 11/15/2012 ( 94 moms have responded )

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Apparently there are many states that have started petitions to withdraw from the United States? Do you live in one of these states? How do you feel about it? Would you sign this petition and why or why not?

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Lady Heather - posted on 11/16/2012

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I will never stop cursing. I guess I'm immature or something. If you don't like cursing, the internet might not be for you.



Like Kelly, I do not understand this whole thing with the health care. I happen to know someone whose life was changed by Obamacare. My friend's sister suffered a brain hemorrhage years ago and was about to max out her lifetime health insurance because of all the surgeries she's had to endure. She is only in her 20s. In the next couple of years she would have lost her insurance. Now that isn't going to happen. She is not special. She is just a person living her life who did absolutely nothing to deserve what happened to her. Bad health can happen to any of us and if you were her you'd be singing a different tune.



Sorry about my name-calling, but I just don't see anything honorable or defensible in saying "I don't like this country so I'm going to destroy it from within". If you don't like it, leave. Why fuck it up instead? Kick the poor US while it's down? For what reason?

[deleted account]

If you don't like the way America is, you should go to a country that you can be proud to live in. That's one of the great things about America: No one is forced to live here, you can leave anytime you like! In fact, a lot of people want to live here so badly they risk their lives to get here.



Also, "Obamacare" as everyone seems so keen on calling it, is absolutely nothing like the healthcare reform Obama wanted. Unfortunately, the original plans could not get through the House and Senate due to Republican filibusters unless HUGE compromises were made. The plan that was eventually passed was due, in most part, to republican opposition.



Furthermore, I've survived two bouts of cancer, and a handful of other pretty serious illnesses. You may not want insurance, but I DO want insurance, and until "Obamacare" was passed, I couldn't get it unless I worked for a large corporation because insurers run from me like I'm the spawn of Satan himself. At the moment, I'm still not guaranteed coverage, but for the first time in 9 years, I have insurance, and I pay less than $2,000 a month for it due to the small business pools established as part of "Obamacare", and by 2014, I will be guaranteed coverage.



Not a big deal to the healthy people who don't want insurance, I know, but last year alone, I spent over $42,000 on medical bills. Do you know that $42k is the median household income in my state! I spent more on health care than half of the people living in my state MAKE in a year! It's a damn good thing I'm "wealthy" because if I weren't, I'd be dead! You see, the thing about Chemotherapy is, you have to pay up front if you don't have insurance. It's not like the ER where you can go get treatment and get a bill later that you can choose to pay or not to pay--if you don't have money, you don't get chemo, and if you have cancer, and you don't get chemo, you die. End of story.



I know a lot of healthy people don't want to buy insurance, but you understand why they have to for this system to work, right? If insurers are no longer allowed to turn people away based on pre-existing conditions, people would just wait until they got sick to buy insurance, and that would bankrupt the system. In order for everyone to be guaranteed coverage, everyone has to buy it. I agree, it's not great, and I wasn't a fan of the original--in fact, I can be quoted from earlier discussions on this site saying I didn't even think it was a step in the right direction--but after having learned more about the ins and outs of it, I now think that it can be a step in the right direction if we move forward carefully.

Shawnn - posted on 11/16/2012

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I'm on the side of Jen, Kelly and America here. Yep, Wyoming's got a petition in too, and there's a whopping 2500 signatures on it. What a bunch of whiny-ass babies, if you ask me. I've heard everything from "Obama destroyed our economy" (NO, he didn't he inherited the mess that GWB initiated by giving his rich buddies tax cuts and allowing the federal banking system to start doing shady business. In fact, GWB increased our deficit MORE than the current administration, but because he started with a surplus, his actual negative number was less.) "Obama is forcing me to pay for insurance". NO, he isn't. The mandate was that everyone deserves some level of coverage, and we need to make sure that insurance companies aren't gouging. Are these people saying that they'd rather risk huge medical bills than pay a little for some insurance? I guarantee that when you all end up needing major medical procedures and you go medically bankrupt, you'd wish you did have insurance. Do I agree with mandatory fines for not having it, no, but the whole thing isn't implemented yet, so we need to watch and wait.



And for those "wishing we would" secede because your state has cut every program and raised cost of living...You really, honestly think that if your state secedes from the US, you'll be better off? You'll have NOTHING coming back to you. Not the Social Security that you've paid into, not the medicare that you've paid into, nothing. You may not have income taxes, but you'll also be reduced to a 3rd world country status in a heartbeat. How will you protect yourselves from foreign nations that will see you as easy pickins?



I'm a 4th generation US citizen. The system isn't perfect. NO SYSTEM IS PERFECT. But the way I look at it is this: We went through a democratic process to select the leader of the nation. The person who was elected won not only the electoral college by over 100 votes, but also took the popular vote, indicating that over 50% of citizens in this country support him. Both parties are notorious for the "I'm taking my ball and going home" tactics when they don't win, but lately, republicans seem to be worse about it.



It seems to me (in my simple minded, backwoods way) that we have an extra large population of pouty 2 year olds. If they can't have what they want NOW, then they're going to obstruct every attempt to rectify the national situation. Both parties are equally guilty of this. No one wants to bend for anything because God forbid you actually act like an adult with some common sense and realize that if you compromise, you'll get further ahead than if you argue constantly over petty little issues.



I could care less how many people we lose to other countries, but when you're talking about the security of OUR nation, the whole idea of seceding is ridiculous. Can any of these states support themselves? Defend themselves in the event of an invasion from another country? Provide for their citizens in such a way that they'll still have human rights at the end of the day? How is their economy going to function, if they abolish taxes? Will there just be a mandatory fee for everything, tacked on as a "convenience" fee or something?



I may not be as eloquent as others here, but I agree with those saying that those wanting to secede are traitors. The shouldn't be allowed to secede, but should be encouraged to find a life in another country that more aligns with their personal views. Or would you rather another Civil War? Because, if so, bring it on, I guess. I'm armed and willing to defend my own, and the constitution that gave me the right to do so.

Julie - posted on 11/19/2012

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I do not know much about it, but I can see why it is happening. I think the underlying fear is that America will ultimately run by a Big Government. We are so upset with Big Businesses and Corporate American's having all the money, that the pendulum is swinging to the opposite side of Government running the people. To threaten the loss of Freedom, that this country was founded on is a HUGE deal. Bottom line is there's nothing FREE about FREEdom.

Qui - posted on 11/18/2012

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I think that if you are willing to sign the petition you should self-deport. Signing the petition and dividing the country is the downfall of this country. This country was in PISS POOR condition well before Obama was elected, but no one was trying to leave it then...whether you are an Obama supporter or not, whether Democrat or Republican, if we cannot pull together as one united front, this country WILL in fact be destroyed. We will be vulnerable to more and worse terroristic acts. Your states, rather locations will lose government support like the National Guard coming in to help when a Natural Disaster strikes. Instead of creating a bigger problem, take a stand and be apart of the solution.



I am disappointed in America not because of an administration that needs help, but because we have people in this country that are so hateful and spiteful that they can;t see anything good in anything that goes against in the slightest way how they feel...anything different must be communistic or socialist...to have different opinions or religions means we are destroyed in the eyes of people that think this way...



It is this thinking that my family always has to compromise otherwise the rest of the country might be uncomfortable...sad, but true and you should be shamed....that is all.

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Lakota - posted on 12/12/2012

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Julie, I'm not sure if this is what she meant, but, maybe she meant if there is no solution to the fiscal cliff problem, the poor and the middle class will be taxed that much. That is what I heard on our local and national news.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/12/2012

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The government is Julie. If the taxes are not raised on the 1% that is what will happen to the poor and middle class.

Julie - posted on 12/12/2012

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Little Miss Can't Be Wrong, Who's talking about an increase of taxes on the poor and the middle class? Not President Obama, He has only talked about raising taxes on the top 2% of Americans.

[deleted account]

I understand what you are saying Julie, but we have learned from past experience that when taxes are cut for the top 2% they do not pass those savings on to their employees by paying them more or hiring more workers--historically, they have pocketed the tax break and continued to run their business as they were before the tax cut. In order for the middle class (and I'm talking middle here--not the poor who only pay minimal taxes anyway) to see the benefit of a tax cut and increase spending to a point that will improve our economy, the tax breaks need to go directly to them. Furthermore, having the money in the pockets of the top 2% does little for the economy because they save a larger percentage of their wages--those dollars don't really ever make it into the economy in forms other than investments, which only pay a return if a company profits, which only happens if people in bulk (the middle class) buy products freely.



I agree that spending needs to be under control, part of the problem is that no one can decide where to cut--right now, most people think that all of our programs are necessities, and many are already operating on shoestring budgets (with the exception of military programs). Where should we make cuts?

It is almost like telling the single mom who's paycheck doesn't quite cover food, rent, and utilities that she doesn't need a raise, she needs to cut back her spending.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/11/2012

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They are talking about an increase of taxes on the poor and middle class of about $3000 PLUS per year. That will KILL us.

Julie - posted on 12/11/2012

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Little Miss Can't Be Wrong, I'm not suggesting that poor people pay more taxes. As I said if "wealthy people" are taxed more they will still pay themselves the same amount of money. Very few will cut their salaries to pay the increased taxes. They will lay off employees, cut pay or benefits or a combination of all three. Less employees won't mean less money for them so I'm not sure what you were trying to say there. The remaining employees might be expected to work more for no extra money in order to have the same output. My husband has experienced it time and time again. Right now with the current tax cuts, "poor people" pay little to no taxes. We have 7 children and barely pay any taxes under the current tax code. The tax refund we get every year is from tax credits. So from my experience, taxes are already coming from the "wealthier" Americans. I'm not defending anyone. I just know from our experience over the years what has happened with my husband's jobs, pay, benefits etc. when taxes have been raised on the owners of the businesses he has worked for. The lower the taxes, the more people business owners can afford to employ and/or the more they can afford to pay their employees. I personally am in favor of getting rid of the current tax code and going with a flat rate tax, so everyone pays the same rate, but obviously the more money you make the more taxes you'll pay. I think it's the most fair way to do it. A lot of politicians are in favor of it, but not enough for a majority vote to make it happen. Kelly you don't know what a 4.5% increase will do to every business owner, only yourself. For instance for every $100,000 a business owner makes, he'd be paying an extra $4,500.00 in taxes. You don't know where he would decide he needs to take that $4,500.00 from to pay those increased taxes. Raising taxes is not the answer. Cutting spending to save money is the answer. Spending only what you take in from taxes. If the budget is more than what's coming in then cuts need to be made so the budget is balanced. When people have more money they spend more which helps the economy. If taxes are raised and it doesn't go directly to paying off the deficit it does no good. Our current government seems to think if they have more money they can spend more money and they don't need to worry about the deficit. Why should someone who has worked hard to be successful have to be responsible for other people's reckless spending? When did people in this country decide it was better to let the government take care of them rather than working hard to take care of themselves and realize their dreams? My husband over our 23 years of marriage has always worked 2-3 jobs at a time and I have worked at least part time. If he only worked one job we could have food stamps and Medicaid, but we don't believe that's right. We believe it's our responsibility to work more if we need more. My husband works for a small company for his first job and he has had many conversations with his boss, the owner, on this very subject. If taxes go up, he will have to cut everyone's hours in order to not lay anyone off and possibly even raise our health insurance premiums, which we already pay almost $400.00 a paycheck for. These politicians don't care what they're doing because it doesn't affect them. Anyway I don't know what will happen with all of this. I don't have any control over what will happen. All I can do is hope whatever decisions get made in Washington won't negatively impact our family and do the best we can to survive in the meantime.

Lakota - posted on 12/10/2012

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Amen, America!!! I completely agree with you. These idiots in office make me sick. They aren't going to worry how they feed their families this Christmas or if they will be able to pay their mortgage. Some of them have already left for their holiday with no second thought about the "little guy".

America3437 - posted on 12/10/2012

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Raising taxes on the middle class isn't gonna solve anything! I am sooooo tired of hearing about how much this 2% pays and how much it would hurt them to pay more. Really.....still laughing my ass off at this bunch of children! If you earn millions or billions each year then you should be taxed on that amount. You earn more you can afford to pay more. Stop taxing the hell out of the poor and make the wealthy pay their fair share. They wake up and worry about where to move their yacht today and we wake up wondering how am I gonna get to work because I have no gas money or better yet what the hell am I gonna feed my kids because I paid the light and water bills so they have heat and running water. I am sick of hearing about how bad they have it with their millions when we are barley staying alive. Can't get any help from the government because we choose to work and try to take care of ourselves! I am deffiently laughing my ass off to keep from going totally mad!!! Some people don't OWN their own business and some of us wonder on a daily basis how in the hell are we gonna make it!

Lacye - posted on 12/09/2012

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In all honesty, I find the whole thing stupid and extremely childish. Oh boo hoo!!! Mitt Romney wasn't voted for president so I'm going to throw a 2 year old temper tantrum because I didn't get my way! Please! It's embarrassing. Does the citizens of the US not realize that the entire world is sitting back laughing their asses off at us? This is the reason why we are looked at as a big joke. If things don't go our way, we throw a temper tantrum and if another country says something about it we use bullying tactics to shut them the hell up. Grow up Americans! The main reason why our country is going to shit is not only because of who is in our office, but because we, the citizens, have allowed this to happen to us! WE are the ones that put these money hungry bastards into office, WE are the ones that have sat back and done nothing while the politicians do what ever the hell they want! WE are the problem and until WE stand up and let it be known that we are not going to put up with this crap from the idiots that are running this country, then WE are going to remain the ones that suffer for it!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/08/2012

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I am not sure that would accomplish a huge amount Krista, and I am not for that. Interest right now is at a whopping .1%. That is NOTHING. If I am putting money into a savings account, I am barely earning anything on it, and it is quite frankly not making any money for me to bother putting it into a savings account....then telling me I am gonna be taxed MORE on my savings account? I would probably end up paying more out than I am earning, which means deductions in my savings account. I don't think it is right to tax investments more either. Investments are a gamble as it is, and then getting higher taxes on them, people will just stop doing them...especially those that are middle class and are just trying to build up retirement money.



Taxing those that are in the 1-2%...those are billionaires and millionaires.

Kristi - posted on 12/07/2012

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My opinion remains the same...leave the tax rate alone for those earning their income and raise the tax rate on monies received through investments and interest. People shouldn't have to give up 40% of their wages to the federal government and that's before the rest of the other taxes taken out when people are resting on their laurels living off unearned income taxed at a mere 13-15%.



I'm not at all saying that most of those people didn't originally earn their money. I know many of them worked very hard for their success and I totally respect that. I just feel that there are people who are working 70-80hrs/wk for their paycheck and they deserve to keep those earnings just as much as the rest of us. If they have to give up 50-60% of their checks to taxes all inclusive, then pay expensive health care premiums what's left for them to invest in our economy? I'm not talking about those who make millions but there is a big difference between $500,000 and 5,000,000.



Maybe I'm way off base here. In any event, our country is facing an economic disaster the likes of which we've never seen. Our government needs to work together to resolve this. But, we (citizens) have to understand we did not get in this position over night nor we will we get out of it that quickly.

[deleted account]

I do understand that, Julie, but I also realize that a 4.5% tax increase is not going to have enough impact on the finances of those business owners to cause major spending cuts. It is not a big increase. Likewise, a 3.5% increase on the middle class will have enough impact to cause major spending cuts, and if no one is buying the products these companies are producing, they will have lower revenue and be forced to cut jobs anyway.



So basically, the question is: Do we want to increase taxes on the top 2% and hope they absorb it without cutting many jobs, or do we want to increase taxes on the middle class knowing that they will have to cut their spending in order to absorb it, and thus decrease profits of business owners forcing them to cut jobs.



I am a business owner. Obviously, I don't want to pay more taxes, but right now, I know that it is the best option for our country. I agree that we need to get spending under control, but 3 weeks before these tax cuts end is not the time to do it. We need a patch, then we need to work on a long term solution deciding where tax revenue is being wasted and could be used more effectively.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/07/2012

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Not necessarily Julie. Less workers equal less out put, means less money lining the wealthy peoples pockets. If the poor are taxed MORE, that will put us into a tail spin. I just don't understand why people are so against taxing the wealthy as they should be. I don't understand this especially because those people who defend the wealthy, have no money themselves.

Julie - posted on 12/07/2012

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Yes Kelly, but unfortunately a lot of those top 2% of the wealthiest Americans when taxed at a higher rate will not cut back on their spending, but instead will make cutbacks at the companies they own by laying off employees or cutting pay or benefits to pay those higher taxes. Remember in this economy where people aren't spending as much they may still be makiing a good living, but not as much as they used to. Plus it's only a Bandaid on a gaping wound. You shouldn't spend what you don't have is what I always learned. So unless spending is cut, the debt will never get paid off, but just continue to rise and at some point someone will have to pay the piper so to speak and there will have to be a day of reckoning. China etc. will call in their loans to us and what then? I shudder to think. We need people in office with economic smarts who know what hard decisions to make to turn our economy around. Since we don't have that they should be consulting with people who do have those expertise to make some big changes. I don't see it happening though.

[deleted account]

Wow, Really?? You're laughing your ass off? You think it's funny that our country is headed for financial disaster because Republicans refuse to temporarily raise taxes on the top 2% of Americans by less than 5%? In my opinion, you've got a very warped sense of humor. I don't think it's funny at all.



I understand their desire not to raise taxes, I really do, but we need more money--It has to come from somewhere, and right now, in this economy, the best place to get the needed revenue is from the wealthy. They will still be able to spend freely even with the higher tax, whereas the middle class would not be able to spend freely with a higher tax, and since they are driving the economic recovery, we need to make sure they have as much spending power as possible right now.

America3437 - posted on 12/07/2012

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I am laughing my ass off.... at the children we have elected! It is a shame that grown ass men and women get paid so much money to sit and argue about how to fix what they broke! Come on let's not raise the debt ceiling and just pass the damn thing!!!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/07/2012

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****MOD WARNING*****



Ok everyone, lets get along here. Cool down, and get back on topic. If this petty arguing continues, this thread will be closed.



~DM MoD Little Miss~

Kristi - posted on 12/06/2012

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A-I can respond to any post I feel like, as I was also born and bred in America and B-all you have to do is click a button boss.

America3437 - posted on 12/05/2012

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OH Kristi....I wouldn't spend that much time or effort on you dear. It was a comment in general and you are free to not comment on my debate. I could do a better job than some that are elected as could you. I may fly my flag and speak my mind anyway I choose because I was born and raised an American and no one by the likes of you may change that!!! You were a bit offensive in your post btw and I haven't even begun to get snippy:)

Kristi - posted on 12/04/2012

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That was my point Kelly and Karla, thank you for making it so much better than I did! Kelly you are so right about why these entertainers make so much money, etc. It would be an absolutely amazing display of humanity and patriotism if we could get our society to make a stand against paying all those people outrageous sums of money and start paying our soldiers and public servants and giving to charities as you said. Resetting our moral compass. I know...keep dreaming!



America0000--first, I never said you didn't work hard so I don't know what your snippy little comment was for. It sounds more to me like you're anti-America unless it's run by you so why don't you stitch yourself a flag representing you and your kind and move to a deserted island, declare yourself president, king and ruler and fly your flag and run your new country any old way you want.

[deleted account]

You are right, Karla--I forgot to factor in the stepped brackets :P Still those working for their income are taxed at a higher rate than those earning income from investments because as a worker's income goes up, so do his taxes, but my investment income is never taxed above 15% no matter how much I make. Shouldn't taxes on it be bracketed the same as taxes on salary type incomes?

Karla - posted on 12/04/2012

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About income taxes --

The tax brackets apply to all income - so that no matter what you make the first $8700, for a single person - $17400 if filing joint- married, is taxed in the 1st tax bracket of 10%. And $8701 to $35350, for a single person, is taxed in the 2nd bracket of 15% .



Point being, even if someone "works their ass off" they are NOT being taxed at 35% bracket for all their income, but rather their income is taxed through each bracket, and for a single person everything above $388,350 is at the 35% tax rate.



Having said that, I don't agree with lower Capital Gains taxes. It applies to interest income and that is new earnings for those with investments and should be taxed as all income is taxed using the tax brackets. I know our government wants to encourage investing though, and most our Senators and Representatives are heavily invested, so good luck changing that tax law.

[deleted account]

Kristi C has a point. All of my income currently comes from investments and I only pay about 10% in income tax after all of my write offs (I'm taxed at 15%, but I can write my income down enough that my actual tax bill is usually well under 15% of my income). I don't really work at all for that income--don't get me wrong here, I DID work for it, and I worked damn hard, but I don't have to work anymore, thus the lower bracket. I'm not as rich as Warren Buffet but I pay at the same tax bracket due to the origin of my income.



My husband on the other hand works full time--30 to 45 hours a week--and pays 35% of his income to taxes. We do have a few write offs, but not much because he does not own his business, after all is said and done, we are still putting more than 30% of his income toward taxes.



Personally, I think it should be reversed--I think that interest and investment income should be taxed at the higher rate and divided up by income brackets while income from jobs--for people actually working to earn the income--should be taxed at a flat 10% to 15% rate for everyone. Really, there is not THAT big of an income range for people working for other people--the majority of employees (people who are not CEO's and not self employed) make between $20k and $250k per year. To make millions, you really have to have your own business or make good, large investments.





As for why movie stars and entertainers make so much more than teachers and firemen, we only have ourselves to blame for that because we are the ones paying them. Americans will freely go to the movies and drop $12-$15 per ticket, they buy DVD's, CD's, MP3's, and Itunes like candy. All of those little purchases add up, and that money goes to the people who produced the song or movie you just bought. Conversely, we fuss and fight any rise in taxes, but taxes are what pay the teachers and policemen. The average person spends 5.6% of their income on entertainment--a 5% raise in income taxes would still not be enough to pay teachers and firemen as much as entertainers because there are so much more service people than entertainers, but it would be a big step in the right direction. Yet, i doubt many people would be up for a 5% tax hike. You could donate it to charity--the average American family donates less than 5% to charity, so if everyone did that--donated 5% to a charity set up to increase pay for teachers and public service men and women--it would make a big impact. Unfortunately, most Americans would rather spend the extra 5% on entertainment, so the starts shall continue to make more.

America3437 - posted on 12/04/2012

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Now flying my flag upside down! This country is in distress to say the least and I encourage you all to flip yours as well. One more time.....UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL!!!!!!

Jodi - posted on 12/04/2012

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There's a part of me that would like to say "Good riddance!", except that I know how terrible it would be for our country. I say, if you signed the petition, you have 1 year to make arrangements to move to another country. We don't need people in this country that want to destroy it Might be a bit harsh, but I'm really tired of the whole "I didn't get my way, so obviously everyone else is stupid and I have to throw a temper tantrum that would shame most toddlers." Get over it, or get out.

America3437 - posted on 12/04/2012

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No different than me working my ass off to pay my taxes. The more money you make the more you should pay.

Kristi - posted on 12/04/2012

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The only problem with that is that there are people who work their ass off for their salary and pay 35% federal income tax alone. That doesn't include state, Medicare, social security...they pay almost 50% of their income in government taxes. Whereas people like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc. live off their interest and pay only 15% tax. There is something wrong with that picture, too. I totally agree about actors, athletes, rock stars making millions and millions while we have homeless and people who can't afford to eat. I guess that's kind off topic.

America3437 - posted on 12/04/2012

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I agree Barbara. I think it is time for the politicians to foot the bill for their mistakes. There is no reason to continue the Bush tax cuts...we are still trying to get rid of the debt he caused in the first place. It is time for the rich to pay their fair share. Stand your ground Mr.President.

Barbara - posted on 12/04/2012

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UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL is true. Petitions for this is not needed what is needed is a petition for the US government to work together. The Democrats and the Republicans need to work out The Fiscal Cliff before all of us are standing at the soup kitchens. I am tired of how the rich get richer and richer and the poor get poorer and poorer; The way people are being paid today is terrible and has been going on for too long. Movie stars, sports, TV personalities, reality TV stars they all get paid too much while our teachers, firemen, policeman, do not get paid enough. Why should Kim K get such a big salary when a teacher gets so little, and any walks of life. Also they talk about social security they should have a cap if you are wealthy like Jimmy Buffet why should he collect social security cap it off and there will be more money for the less fortunate. The whole pay check in all life needs to be adjusted. Also if you make $10.00 an hour why should you be paying $4.00 a gallon for gasoline while the person who make a million dollars a year pay $4.00 a gallon for gas why not have percentages for people who make so much less? No this country does not need to divide it needs to really unite as one country and look for the good in all.

Jodi - posted on 11/28/2012

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"I personally don't think everyone that voted was fully informed"



I concur with this one......LOL. It helps to be informed if the politician doesn't keep getting caught out in lies......

Kristi - posted on 11/28/2012

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Yes please, let's have one more war to fight. (I know that is not what seceding means but it is what would happen)

[deleted account]

I seem to recall that when they all were threatening to move, they were ridiculed almost non-stop by the so-called conservative people such as Fox and that waste of space known as Rush.



Personally I don't care if people move away or talk about moving away. I do have a problem with threats to tear our nation apart by seceeding.

Julie - posted on 11/26/2012

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Beth, It has nothing to do with political affiliation. When George W. Bush was elected, many people, notably much of Hollywood threatened to move away. I distinctly recall Johnny Depp threatening to move to Paris permanently. While he does have a home there, his main residence is still here in the good ol' U.S. of A. All the others who threatened to move to Canada still live here as well. So there are always extremists and "sore losers" in every political party. Yes we still live in a democracy. I don't think the election was unfair. People voted how they voted. I personally don't think everyone that voted was fully informed, but it is what it is and we just have to make the best of it and go from here. I highly doubt people will actually secede. I think people just want to know they are heard and that our government officials are listening to what the American people want. This is the forum some have chosen. That's what's great about America. They have the freedom to speak up about what they're unhappy about with our government.

Beth - posted on 11/26/2012

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I don't think people who sign these things really understand what secession involves. Not to mention it makes them look like petulant Kindergartners to tell everyone they're packing up their toys and leaving because they didn't get their way. Why is it that when a Republican wins an election, these people think it's "democracy at work!" and when a Democrat wins, it's "unfair and wrong!" It's still democracy! We still voted! You're on the losing side! Deal with it! I did from 2000 to 2008, and you can too.

Julie - posted on 11/26/2012

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I live in Utah and they are NOT one of the 20 states with people who started petitions to secede from the United States. I don't think that it's productive. I would never sign such a petition if one was started in Utah. Our country is already divided enough. I'm not happy about Obama being re-elected and I'm very concerned about the future of our nation. I plan on continuing to write letters to my elected officials about how I want them to vote on the issues at hand and continue to pray that those in office will be inspired to make the right decisions for our country. We need to work together to find common ground to start working for solutions to our country's problems. UNITED WE STAND! DIVIDED WE FALL!

[deleted account]

Well....Hoovastol operates under a contract with the Federal Post Office, they don't deliver individual packages, they make bulk mail shipments between Federal Post Offices then the Federal Post Offices deliver the mail to individuals, so that wouldn't really work unless they were willing to restructure their entire business model in order to serve your state. That said, you could still use FexEx or UPS, but you will pay a lot more--not only because these services are simply more expensive in the first place, but you would have international taxes and fees on top.

Jazmyne - posted on 11/26/2012

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@Jen... Hoovastol :) (based out of Eagan MN) Or Comway (based out of again Eagan MN) Yes they have terminals in other states, however the main place mail goes to are these companys that haul mail nation wide. (just an answer to who's delivering the mail)

[deleted account]

Adding to that, what will you use for money? Many banks most likely do not have their home offices in your state. Who's even to say that cash/dollars/etc will even have value? They only have value because of the Federal.



So when you (general you) go shopping online, you would now be payin international shipping cost. Which reminds me, who's going to deliver your mail?

[deleted account]

I'm sorry, I was not trying to debate your state's funding or lack there of for federal programs, I was only trying to make sure you had all of the facts. As far as the seceding debate, my opinion is is the same for all states, not just yours--seceding is a bad idea.



A government shutdown and the conditions that it would bring about are completely different from a few states seceding. First off, during a government shutdown, only non-essential programs are halted--we still have national defense, we still have law enforcement, we still have medical funding, we still have communications programs, we still have access to international travel and goods, etc. Should a state choose (and be allowed) to secede, all of those programs would be cut for that state with the exception of state and local levels of each program.

This is a big deal for the rest of the country because those unprotected states are like an open door for terrorists to invade the United States. Furthermore, when disorder and lawlessness breaks out in the states that secede, the residents are going to pour into the United States and we will have a smaller tax revenue supporting a larger population. Currency and transportation become major issues should areas of the US become surrounded by states that are no longer a part of the US.

Jazmyne - posted on 11/25/2012

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Kelly. As I have said before, It won't bother me any if my state secedes. However it is a moot point because we haven't even started a petition to. So you can debate my state all you want. It doesn't really matter though. I was just speaking my mind. And the reason why we are lacking funding is because we were one of the last states standing during the federal shut down. We have all lived with the shut down before. Is it really any different if a few states choose to secede? Same thing in my mind.

[deleted account]

I don't think the reasons being given are reasons for breaking away from the USA. My husban has changed his mind and would not sign a petition anymore. Perhaps he was put off after he watched Gone With The Wind over thanksgiving.

[deleted account]

Jazmyne, I would not consider a case manager a media source at all, actually. That said, if your case worker is your only source of information on the issue, it is clear that she left out a lot of the facts.



Budgets for Medicaid were indeed cut for several states, however the cuts were made at the STATE level, not the Federal level. Basically, the way these programs work is that they receive a set amount of funding from the Federal government, and they are required to match that amount by a certain percentage at the State level. Once the Federal amount has been allotted, it stays at that amount unless the state does not fulfill their end of the deal. That said, often states match the Federal allotment by more than the minimum amount, and if they do, they are free to cut those budgets without interference with the Federal funding, which is what happened in many states over the past year.



So yes, funding has been cut, but the programs were not eliminated and ALL states still receive Federal funds for those programs. Due to those cuts, many people who usually qualify for these services no longer qualify, or temporarily do not qualify so that people who have a greater need get first priority.



Now, should your state secede, those programs would be eliminated and replaced with programs that can survive only on your state's portion of the budget....which is considerably smaller than the federal portion, thus, even fewer people would qualify.

Jazmyne - posted on 11/23/2012

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They completely droped it for the next 3 months due to lack of funding. (They are also unsure weather or not they are going to start it up again if the funding they projected to be there isn't) I finally got a letter expaining a little bit more about it.

Rosie - posted on 11/22/2012

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i can go online right now and get an application for it jazmyne. are you meaning they cut it completely or just cut funding to it?

Jazmyne - posted on 11/22/2012

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Kelly. You say that there is no possible way they could cut our medicare and MN care... Then how come when I went to go pick up my medications and test strips, they came back with 'Patient is no longer insured" and when I contacted my Case manager they say that these programs have been cut? Is that a 'faulty source" as you claim?

Rosie - posted on 11/22/2012

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i think it's ridiculous, and the people that have signed these petitions have absolutely no clue what their life would be like if they did seceede (sp?). but then, of course they did vote for Romney...it explains a lot to me about their thought process.

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