How tough is life in America now?

Sherri - posted on 08/01/2012

@Janice we still have Co-pays.

Sherri - posted on 08/01/2012

No it wouldn't they would never up employees pays just because they no longer had to pay healthcare they would simply pocket it.

Who ever said I had all the answers?? Also when did I say screw you because you have a pre existing condition? I didn't but UHC is not the be all and end all and in my opinion is not the solution. Also if I understood correctly at least with our insurance if I were to get a condition tomorrow as long as I never went with a break in between insurance longer than 90 days than no insurance company can deny you and consider it a pre existing condition at least that is the letter we just received from Anthem when my husbands company dropped them and went to MVP Health Care.

Also just because I am against UHC does not mean I don't care about those who don't have insurance. I do!! I just would prefer them come up with another option other than UHC.

Janice - posted on 08/01/2012

90$ for a family plan is awesome! AND unusual. Most people pay much more than that. If our children didnt get state insurance then we would pay 120$ a week in premiums plus all the co-pays. Most people I know pay more than we do.

I just dont get it! It is not due to my husbands lack of hard work that he pays a certain premium. All human beings should have affordable healthcare just like you have Sherri.

What would happen if the company your husband works for decided profit was more important and stopped providing as much premium coverage?

Isobel - posted on 08/01/2012

I wonder how much that insurance policy would cost if your husband got downsized...I know I've seen documentaries where people lose their job and go from paying a few hundred a month to over a thousand dollars, so you are pretty much forced to keep whatever job you've got so that you can have insurance and you can never ever leave. :( and yeah, the other nice part about having your health insurance tied to your income is that if you have a rough year, your premiums go down, your insurance rates go up if you lose your job.

Kelly - posted on 08/01/2012

Well, "the family plan at my husband's work" doesn't really help me. I need the name of the insurance company so that I can compare rates and negotiate with my son's insurer. Of course, I am aware that your husband's employer pays the bulk of the premiums, but even so, I bet it's less than my son's and husband's policies.

One other thing I'm not sure if you've thought about or not--your husband's company pays the majority of your insurance premiums. If we had UHC, they would not be paying those premiums and that money would go into your husband's paycheck, so that would also help pay for the minuscule tax increase you would experience.

And what of those who cannot buy insurance? What was your answer for them? I don't seem to recall you ever giving one except that if they can't buy insurance, they don't deserve to have it.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/01/2012

Sherri, you know how much I would pay a month to have insurance here in Canada since my older daughter and I aren't citizens? 125$ a MONTH :) That includes everything that my husband and my younger daughter get.

Do you know how much my MIL pays for her insurance through Interior Health which covers her sons for as long as they're in school and not married? ZERO! Of course this is because she's working for the government. Some people in Canada might pay about 75$ a month for supplimental insurance which will cover things their UHC won't (like that proverbial boob job)

Hmm 125$ a month vs 360$ a month I know which one I'd choose.

Sherri - posted on 08/01/2012

@Kelly yes for the family plan at my husbands work whether we had 1 child or 20 kids is $90 a week. It doesn't go up because you have more kids it still falls under the family plan.

Kelly - posted on 08/01/2012

Well if you are paying $390/month to insure your family of, what is it--6 now? Could I please have the name of your insurer because I'm paying $100 more than that each month to insure my one child. Hubby's is slightly less, but the two of them together are over $700/month! I'd like to switch to your insurance company!

I know you will never support UHC. I got an up-close and personal view of your thoughts on people like me who have the audacity to get sick last time we went round about this. And yes, my child could get Medicaid "if we met the requirements" unfortunately, we don't, and we probably never will because I work hard to make a decent income. The point is, the only requirement people should have to meet to receive healthcare should be being alive--they shouldn't have to sell everything they've worked hard for, or quit well paying jobs, or make millions to earn the right to stay alive.

Sherri - posted on 08/01/2012

@Meme we pay $90 a wk and that is off our gross pay not net pay. The only things not taxed by sales tax in most states in US that have sales tax are the following. Some types of foods, prescription drugs just about everything else is taxable that you purchase clothing, toys, baby items, many foods, bathroom supplies, kitchen supplies, furniture, cars etc.

Just an FYI Kelly my kids did have Medicaid for a short time however, I always had private insurance for my husband and I that we always paid for. There was never a time where I didn't pay for private medical insurance.

You and I have been down this road before and I am not about to go down it again with you. You know damn well that I will never support UHC. Your child could get medicaid if you qualified no child can be denied health care if you meet the requirements.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/01/2012

Oh good Lord and Lady! It happened SIXTEEN pages ago. Cry a river, build a bridge and get over it!

Entitled to health care for 10 years- My dad's father died at 75 from a heart attack. I guess it's a good thing he worked for the postal service and my grandma did odd jobs or she wouldn't have been 'entitled' to her health care which she used until she died from Cancer at the age of 85.

Julie, I'm American. I've used 3 types of insurance that can be used by American citizens: Private pay (when I was lucky enough to have it- something that I never thought was appalling until I met my Canadian husband and one of my very close Canadian friends) Tri-care (military insurance which is paid for by tax dollars and isn't great once you're living away from a military installation like I was after my divorce from my first husband. My daughter is still covered under his plan as long as he is still active duty. And you have to use a doctor off base that takes tri-care.) and Medicare/medicaid (which you can be denied if you work two per-diem jobs in the state of NY and does have a small co-pay on medications. The last time I used it I was pregnant with my younger daughter who is covered under BC's provincial health care) They all have their strengths, but they have a lot of weaknesses (which I mentioned) as well.

As for ER waits- in August of 2010 I was 2 months along with my 2nd child (who I nearly died delivering BTW) I was vomiting practically every day and my BP was 89/113 so I had to go into the ED. My mom drove me in at 7pm I wasn't finished with all my tests and moved to a room until 2:30AM. This is because at the time I had been denied medicare because I wasn't pregnant and couldn't afford to go for the preventive care that would have told me that my hyper-active thyroid was acting up again. Part of the reason our infant mortality rate is so high in the US is because of lack of affordable care. This is something I won't have to worry about when I have my next babies here in BC or which ever province I live in.

Julie Let me tell you something about UHC here in Canada that I've heard from MY FRIENDS. Interior health in BC will foot the bill for you and your child to be flown from Kelowna to Vancouver if you need something that a local hospital doesn't have in your city- no co-pay. Two of my friends who live right here in BC have had to do that, one of them back in October of last year. My friend was way past her due date and had to go to Vancouver because there was something wrong with her baby- the medivaced (that word looks odd) her to Vancouver and she didn't have to pay anything. I have a friend who lives in AB and she gets reimbersed for driving from her small town to Edmonton for her cortizone shots and PT. An ENTIRE 3hrs away and her provincial insurance gives her money back to drive there. My MIL works at the nursing home her mom is in. Her mom has alzheimers and she is given the best care possible (the same care our PM can get because with UHC everyone is equal you can't legally buy your way into things) When something happens like she has a fall the nursing home calls my MIL. When her mom had a really bad fall and broke her hip, she was taken across the street to the hospital and no one had to worry about if she'd get treated differently since she is in her late 80's.

I could go on, I could tell you about how many times my FIL has had to go to the hospital and all his health issues which would have a private insurance company in the US drop him like a hot potato. I could tell you about my MIL's boyfriend who has Parkinsons and how BC Health paid for his treadmill because it's part of his physcial therapy and how he doesn't have to worry about a cap on his copay for his meds like my mom's parents have done (which accounts for homeless seniors back in the US- which BTW is part of the topic of this thread mais non? But I doubt that would mean much to someone who has made up her mind after listening to stories from her friend. So instead I'll save my fingers from cramping up and finish checking my email.

Kelly - posted on 08/01/2012

Sherri, don't you have Medicaid for your children? I believe you have mentioned that several times in other threads. Medicaid is government sponsored healthcare--it's paid for with MY taxes and yours. Tell me why you feel your children are entitled to this healthcare, but my child is not. We both pay for it, we should both use it right?

Sherri's expenses may go up because she is currently using taxpayer funded insurance, but wouldn't it be worth the added expense to know that ALL families would be cared for? Or do you just not care whether those other families are cared for, as long as their taxes keep supporting yours?

Kelly - posted on 08/01/2012

wow...sorry, a whole page of comments didn't show up until I posted that. I thought we were finished with those issues....I'll catch up in a bit.

Kelly - posted on 08/01/2012

Julie, I don't know how much that "big bill" for your baby was, but if I were to pay $25/month until MY big bill was paid off, I would be paying for 2,500 years.....I doubt if our wonderful hospitals could keep me alive for that long. If I pay $2,100/month, I could pay it off in 30 years--the length of most mortgages in the US--IF I never got sick again. And I don't know what you do for a living, but most Americans do not make enough to pay $2,000/month on top of their mortgages, car payments, food, utilities, etc. (luckily for me I started a lucrative business and have paid it off, but that is not possible for many citizens--especially in this economic climate)



Medicare is great, IF you live to be 67. Unfortunately, with my past, it's doubtful I'll make it to 50. The average life expectancy in the US is 78 years old, so are we only entitled to healthcare for the last 10 years of our lives, when we cannot work? It seems it would be more beneficial to take care of the working citizens, because it is those people who keep our economy afloat.



As for taxes, most countries with UHC pay between 10% and 12% LESS in taxes than US citizen pay between taxes and insurance premiums combined, so actually, you would have MORE income.



As for ER waits, that doesn't happen in countries where they have UHC because they have walk in clinics and Urgent Care centers for minor issues. We have them too, but they can refuse to treat you if you cannot pay, so it's off to the emergency room! They have waits, but they are comparable to the long waits here in the US.

Kristi - posted on 08/01/2012

Julie--"Even when my sister-in-law received food stamps for a while she was still working 40+ hours a week as a waitress so she was doing everything she could first to provide for her and her children and I'm more than happy to help those in similar situations."

Where was she a waitress, McDonalds? I've been a waitress, I know other waiters and waitresses...if she is working 40+ hours a week and is unable to feed her family, unless there are like 8 of them, then she either works at the shittiest restaurant ever or she lies about how much she makes, in order to get assistance. (it's easy to do when most of your income is unaccounted for cash.) So either, a) you really do need to help her find a new job or b) she is the epitome of all that you hate, people abusing the system and getting something for nothing.

My daughter and I have to live off $1,052 a month and because I am extremely fortunate to live in my parent's second home and only have to give them $200 a month plus 1/2 the utilities, I was only eligible for $22 whopping dollars a month in food stamps. (and before you get all, well if her parents can afford 2 homes....crap, his company pays most of the rent at their apartment (part of his relocation deal) so they do not make 2 house payments) My point is that, I know the system, too, which is why I made the statement I did about your SIL's situation. I'm not judging her, she's got to take care of her family. I am however, pointing out your hipocrisy.

I agree that there are several people who abuse the system and that is frustrating because it makes harder for a person/family with a real need, to get assistance. But, neither you nor I have the right to sit in judgement and pick and choose those we deem deserving and those we do not. You can't pretend to know everyone's circumstances so I don't know where you get off, chastising people who don't fit in to your persception of right and wrong. I was right the first time and it's people with your mentality that make people, outside the US, think we are selfish, spoiled brats. (or assholes) Oh, let me add to that, ignorant, selfish, spoiled assholes.

And Jenni--"I'm surprised you'd even ask this question." Are you really? ; )

MeMe - posted on 08/01/2012

Sherri---@Megan that is where I would be screwed we don't have income taxes in my state nor a sales tax. Those things would be forced upon us if UHC is passed. We would truly be screwed financially if that happens



With the amount you pay monthly into your health insurance, you would pay equal to less in income tax and have ALL the health care you needed. You have said before you pay something like $200/week (maybe more??). Well, on my salary (over 55 000/year) I pay about that in Federal taxes, a little less actually ($350 every two weeks). This equates to health care for ALL of my family and a bunch of other social programs, that we can use. There is NO copay for any of it. I am also amazed that you do not pay federal income tax. Why not? How can one state be exempt from this?



Sherri---Actually Isobel I would pay far more in a sales tax and/or income tax then I pay in a year for health insurance. To have every single thing I buy taxed would by far be immensely higher than the $360 a month I pay in healthcare.



Sorry, I missed this before commenting above. OK, so here we go. The difference is, that $360 you pay a month is directly from your take home pay. Our federal tax is directly off our gross pay, so before we get our net and a typical person gets a nice tax refund each year, I doubt you get a percentage refund on the monies you give to your health insurance. Also, if I recall correctly the insurance is only for you and your husband, you have medicaid for the kids. Is this correct? From my understanding, there are a fair amount of stipulations surrounding medicaid. In addition, I bet you still have a copay with that $360/month health premium you guys pay. Is this right?



Oh and no, it is not correct to think that if someone grew up on UHC they are going to defend and support it. Kinda like how there are several Americans in this thread that do NOT support the previous or current way the US health system works. The only difference is we KNOW the UHC works well and it allows for ALL Canadians to have zero worry of getting care. We defend it because it is a wonderful and very useful right, that we feel ALL people should have access to. Although, we can't make anyone see it, we just live it and know it. ;)



Julie---I went to the doctor yesterday and I did not have to wait. I made an appt 4 days ago. A couple weeks ago, my son had an ear infection. Twice that week, I walked into my doctors office and they saw him immediately (it is called a fit in), no wait, no appt, no bill!!



You are sadly informed and honestly it is making me very very tired!



ETA:

Sherri---To have every single thing I buy taxed would by far be immensely higher than the $360 a month I pay in healthcare.



Also, not everything in Canada is taxed. Only products that are pre-made. Produce, meats, dairy...NOT taxed, there are other things too, that are not taxed...so, I am unsure where you get your info.

Karla - posted on 08/01/2012

I'm confused about the discussion about UHC and Obamacare - officially known as the Affordable Healthcare Act (AHA) and the Patient Protection Act (PPA.) Obamacare is not Universal Healthcare. I wish to hell it was. (please excuse my foul language.)

Universal Health Care: national health insurance,
a health insurance program in many countries other than the United States that is financed by taxes and administered by the government to provide comprehensive health care that is accessible to all citizens of that nation.

Whereas: "Obamacare" is:
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010: The two bills changed how health insurance functions in the United States. Among other provisions, Obamacare expanded eligibility of Medicaid and required most Americans to purchase health insurance. It also set up exchanges in the several states so insurers could compete with each other to provide the most cost effectiveness for consumers. It provided subsidies for health insurance premiums. Proponents argue Obamacare makes health insurance more affordable, while critics contend it is too expensive and constitutes excessive government interference in the U.S. economy.

Obamacare still works through for-profit insurance companies.

Quick question Julie: does your husband pay anything into his insurance premium? I ask because the cost of UHC seems to be a big issue for you, and from my perspective I pay so much into my insurance premium, co-pays and deductibles, that I feel certain the tax with a true Universal Health Care system would not cost me more.

Even with the Obamacare, my insurance premiums, and other expenses will be better regulated.

I highly doubt Obamacare is the best possible plan, but its a start and that seems to be the only way to get the ball rolling in the government.

There are an unacceptable number of middle class Americans who do not have health insurance through their work. It is very difficult for Small Business owners to find insurance companies that will accept their business. These are issues that Obamacare addresses and tries to remedy.

Jenny - posted on 07/31/2012

Megan, everything I know about UHC is from people who have had personal experience with it. I don't know anything that Tea Party activists have said about it or most other politicians. I've only been to one town hall meeting for our U.S. representative where he had the novel size healthcare reform bill and answered questions people had about it. I readily admit that I don't know everything there is to know about it. I can only go on what people I personally know have experienced with it in helping to determine my opinion about it.

So you are pulling information from "a friend" to argue against women who experience it daily as if you are more informed?

What I'd like to know though is how when Jakki started off asking how Americans are doing financially and if we're worried about our future, this thread turned into a debate about UHC and illegal immigrants?

Health care is a huge reason many American families are struggling. I'm surprised you'd even ask this question.

Illegal immigrants and the WalMart mentality is another one. You figure everything should come dirt cheap and then why American lose jobs when they get shipped overseas to as legal to slave labour as we can possibly get. You need people with spending money to have money to spend and kick start the economy. Minimum wage workers won't cut it but consumer trends ar enot allowing for products that are created by people earning a livable wage.

Anyway even after everything that everyone has shared about UHC good and bad I can't say my opinion has changed and that's o.k. The clincher for me was how every single one of our doctors and nurses have told us they are very concerned for the quality of healthcare in the U.S. if we decide to do Universal Healthcare.

If they'd leave over earning a high wage over an obscene then don't let the door hit 'em on the way out. If my doctor ever said that to me I'd be the one who walked out. I know my doctor doesn't look at me as a profit margin. What a disturbing thought that would be. I don't understand how you tolerate it.

Sherri - posted on 07/31/2012

Jenny of course those that have lived with UHC their entire lives are going to know no differently are going to advocate for it. That is kind of a no brainer isn't it??

However, what the US is trying to do is far from UHC and basically it is just a full blown mess. How this will be fixed is beyond me but not really one I wish I was forced to be a part of.

Sherri - posted on 07/31/2012

Actually Isobel I would pay far more in a sales tax and/or income tax then I pay in a year for health insurance. To have every single thing I buy taxed would by far be immensely higher than the $360 a month I pay in healthcare.

Julie - posted on 07/31/2012

Megan, I was offended by Krista E.'s post from 4 days ago on page 16 of this thread. I don't use such language so you can read for yourself. As for free, I'm referring to the ones who live off the dole as my husband says. My friend in Liverpool has never had a job even though she's capable of having one, so she's never paid taxes, but receives everything for free. Once she was divorced she receives assistance for her autistic son which I have no qualms about, but she didn't have him until her 30's and never worked all the years before that. I'm sorry, but I don't understand being able to do that and I never will. Even when my sister-in-law received food stamps for a while she was still working 40+ hours a week as a waitress so she was doing everything she could first to provide for her and her children and I'm more than happy to help those in similar situations.

Jenny - posted on 07/31/2012

Pretty, pretty please EDUCATE yourself about UHC before debating. You are arguing against women who have lived in UHC systems for their entire lives and brought their children into it too. We're not being flag blind. We are educated women who wish all women had the advantages that we do. We *gasp* care.

We believe a strong, healthy country produces more strong, healthy citizens which benefits us all collectively (socialist slime that we are). We can either beat each other down in an every man for themselves society or pull our heads out of collective asses and understand sharing is good, just like your Mom said. We are also a country who does not allow Fox News as they are not, well, news so our propaganda machine is not quite as thorough.

So stop with the UHC talking points and grab a clue what the system actually is that your are ignorantly knocking. UHC is the shit.

Julie - posted on 07/31/2012

Megan, everything I know about UHC is from people who have had personal experience with it. I don't know anything that Tea Party activists have said about it or most other politicians. I've only been to one town hall meeting for our U.S. representative where he had the novel size healthcare reform bill and answered questions people had about it. I readily admit that I don't know everything there is to know about it. I can only go on what people I personally know have experienced with it in helping to determine my opinion about it. What I'd like to know though is how when Jakki started off asking how Americans are doing financially and if we're worried about our future, this thread turned into a debate about UHC and illegal immigrants? Anyway even after everything that everyone has shared about UHC good and bad I can't say my opinion has changed and that's o.k. The clincher for me was how every single one of our doctors and nurses have told us they are very concerned for the quality of healthcare in the U.S. if we decide to do Universal Healthcare. Their knowledge is whose I trust more than anyone's. Not everyone has to feel the same on the subject though and that's o.k. I'm glad that those who have it that have spoken on here are happy with it and that they feel it is the best thing for them. I guess really the only people who could speak to it are those who have lived abroad and experienced both as to which they think is better. If my son though had to wait for months to get a routine g-tube surgery, he would have died so that is a very concerning thing to hear from you yourself.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/31/2012

Sherri, they'd probably have it paid for through federal taxes or something. I'm just explaining how Canadian health care is paid for. I don't know what the US would do. Right now I'm in Canada so I don't even know how they're running ACA unless I watch the US news.

Isobel - posted on 07/31/2012

how? because you'd have a tax which was lower than your insurance rates and no insurance payments?

Sherri - posted on 07/31/2012

@Megan that is where I would be screwed we don't have income taxes in my state nor a sales tax. Those things would be forced upon us if UHC is passed. We would truly be screwed financially if that happens.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/31/2012

Julie, what foul language? She said freeloader.



UHC is NOT FREE! It's paid for by income taxes. And please answer Isobel's question. I want to see it



But wait I have more to say:



If we aren't entitled to be taken care of by the government, then why is the government entitled to be taken care of by us? Our taxes go to our politicians buying viagra and heart transplants. Why shouldn't our taxes also go to paying for our health care?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/31/2012

Julie, I read your post to my husband and he had a good laugh about it. We had to take our 16 month old to a walk in clinic a few weeks ago because she had prickly heat and wasn't drinking much (not even nursing) It turns out she had an ear infection. We were in and out of the clinic (on a weekend no less) in about 30 minutes not 30 days. We didn't have a co-pay. We didn't even have to pay for the antibiotic.

I'm begging you to go and do the actual research on UHC, not just spout nonsense that you hear from your friendly neighbourhood GOP leader or Tea Party Activist. That way you don't sound ill informed. Here's a start: http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/12/19/he...

http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/08/21...

No one is saying that UHC is perfect. We have a shortage of doctors, we have wait lists for surgery and damn it all to hell my provincial insurance won't cover my lipo. But it's better than my options in the US.

Isobel - posted on 07/31/2012

if you have to pay for it, it's a privilege, not a right...and you didn't answer my question about people who work minimum wage, cannot afford insurance, and become terminally ill in their forties. What happens to them in your fantastic Utopian society?

Julie - posted on 07/31/2012

Megan, If you read my post you would have seen that I am offended by the need for foul language in anyone's comments. I would hope as intelligent women that we could find better words to express ourselves and not have to curse. Also most stay at home mothers worked in high school, college or sometime before they had a child and therefore would have paid into the system and are entitled to collect based on what they put in. I am not opposed to helping people in their time of need. We help our neighbors, we pay a generous fast offering to our church to help those in need, and we donate food and goods almost every time we've been asked by the M.S. Society, Big Brothers Big Sisters, Scouting For Food, The Food Bank, The Post Office, the school food drives etc. etc. In past years before we struggled so much financially ourselves we donated money to all kinds of charities. I believe we should reach out and help each other. I also believe healthcare is a right, meaning everyone is entitled to receive it, but not for free. People should have to pay as they are able on a sliding scale as some places already work that way. When we didn't have insurance and our baby had to go to the e.r. and we had a big bill, I would have been willing to go clean toilets or mop floors, wash dishes whatever it took if needed. Thankfully it didn't come to that, because the hospital let us pay $25.00 a month until it was paid off. I've lived in 4 states and every hospital I've had bills at were always willing to work with us to get our medical bills paid. Unfortunately there are people who take advantage of things. When my husband lived in England he referred to it as living on the dole. I just don't believe we're entitled to have the government do everything for us. I think we need to work for ourselves and then have a system to help those who are going through a tough time be self reliant. So I apologize to those whom my opinions on the subject have offended.

Krista - posted on 07/31/2012

Let's address this ignorance point by point, shall we?



Megan, If we had UHC in the U.S. our taxes would be higher so we would have less income



Not necessarily. Your country spends a metric crapload on military spending. Cut just a tiny portion of the Pentagon's budget, and I guarantee you would have more than enough to pay for UHC. And, as the others said, you'd save a LOT more on insurance premiums than you'd be paying in taxes.



We would still only have a choice of doctors that were participating and a lot of doctors where I live say they wouldn't participate.



You obviously have no concept of how UHC works. There is no "opting out" -- not unless you move. If every single citizen has it and uses it, a doctor would have to be a complete dolt to "not participate".



When my son needs to be seen I don't want to have to wait months for him to get in with someone.



Lie. I do not wait months to see my doctor. I wait a day, two at most.



I don't want to wait even longer in the e.r. because people are there with ear infections and strep throat.



That's what's happening right NOW in the U.S. The uninsured don't get any preventative care, so they just wind up at the ER once they're really sick.



I don't want the level of care we receive to decline because of lack of funds and doctors and nurses start caring less because they're getting paid less. I don't want the wonderful hospitals we have here to start going downhill and become death traps because the money isn't there to keep updated equipment and staff properly to prevent things like MRSA.



Not only is that a lie, it is a vicious lie. Our doctors and nurses are top-notch. They do their jobs because they DO care, not because they're getting filthy rich over it. It's obscene that you think that a higher salary makes a doctor care more about his/her patients. But don't feel too sorry for our doctors -- they still average a salary of over $200K a year. And any U.S. doctor who would quit over a salary like that does NOT deserve to be a physician.



Besides...I love your attitude. Who cares if uninsured people are dying in your country due to lack of care? Screw them -- you've got yours, and that's all that matters in your little world.

Isobel - posted on 07/31/2012

your taxes would go up by less than the cost of your insurance, so net benefit.

Rosie - posted on 07/31/2012

from what i gather, the taxes aren't that much higher, and they certainly aren't higher than our taxes and premiums for medical insurance combined.

Krista - posted on 07/31/2012

Julie, what in blue blazes are you talking about? I didn't use offensive language in the least.

Are you offended by my use of the term "freeloaders"? Because if so, then perhaps I hit a little too close to home for you -- because that IS basically what you're implying. And again, I remind you that even people who have not worked STILL pay sales taxes, gas taxes, etc. EVERYBODY contributes, and EVERYBODY should have the right to basic health care.

And frankly, I'm a heck of a lot more offended by this: "if you never worked a day in your life and are therefore ineligible for Medicare when you're older it is your own fault and I don't feel sorry for you at all."

What a disgusting attitude. Do you have any idea how many SAHMs are in this community, and in your country? Some of them have never worked outside the home, but believe me, lady, they have WORKED. And you have the unmitigated GALL to sit there and say that when they're old ladies, they deserve to die?

If you're offended by the language that I used earlier, then just be VERY grateful that this community has the no-THUMPS rule, because otherwise, I would tell you precisely what I think of your attitude, and it would make any of my earlier comments look like the dulcet tones of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Julie - posted on 07/31/2012

Megan, If we had UHC in the U.S. our taxes would be higher so we would have less income. I would still be paying on the medical bills I have now which would be very hard to do with less income. We would still only have a choice of doctors that were participating and a lot of doctors where I live say they wouldn't participate. When my son needs to be seen I don't want to have to wait months for him to get in with someone. I don't want to wait even longer in the e.r. because people are there with ear infections and strep throat. I don't want the level of care we receive to decline because of lack of funds and doctors and nurses start caring less because they're getting paid less. I don't want the wonderful hospitals we have here to start going downhill and become death traps because the money isn't there to keep updated equipment and staff properly to prevent things like MRSA. I've heard both sides and for me the downside is not worth the limited upside. So we'll see what happens. The majority rules in the U.S. so whatever the vast majority want is what will prevail so until then I'll just worry about doing the best with what we have now.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/31/2012

Dear Canada,

When you do finally invade my homeland can you refund me the 1100$ I spent to stay here?

MeMe - posted on 07/31/2012

Julie----The fact is most people have worked a day in their life and therefore, IMO, are NOT freeloaders to our UHC. Simply because more than likely, at one point or another, they HAVE paid into it. Even if they haven't, I prefer my tax dollars ensuring they are healthy and are not spreading disease across our nation! I also sleep very well at night, knowing I have helped all the children that are extremely ill (and have never ever worked a day in their life) are fully and completely cared for by the same doctors that someone making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, sees. You see, we do not discriminate what doctors someone gets to see due to their financial status. Someone that is very poor will get the exact same treatment and service as someone that is mighty rich, here in Canada. I feel great about that.



I feel secure knowing that if I lose my job tomorrow, myself, my husband and my children will still get to see the exact same doctors we see now. We wouldn't have to worry whether they accept UHC or not, since ALL doctors do. We would not have to worry if we make too much or too little or whatever the dumb reasons are in place, in the US. It all sounds so confusing, too. Nah, I will stick with our UHC. It is simple. Be a permanent resident of Canada and have your health taken care of, that's it,, nothing more.



I don't know but you are really solidifying how I feel about the US and the stigma it receives due to the insensitive, ungenerous, uncaring and extreme greed some of its citizens present (you being one of them). It's just not like that here. We all appreciate our freedom of choice because we receive the true sense of the definition. We are all equal when it comes to our health and I would never have it another way. It works and it helps everyone, not just the unfortunate. The poor would get free health care anyhow, I am proud to say that my taxes allows me and everyone else to not have to be concerned about whether they should go to the doctor or not. If my ass hurts, I pick up the phone and make an appt. No thinking required. No worry of what my co-pay or complete cost will be. I make the appt., show up, get information, maybe a referral if required and I am on my merry way, until next time. It is just how it should be everywhere.



I will never understand this "you need to work your ass off and pay out the ass, in order to receive basic health care". That's utter bullshit and it is how the health system, in the US, has gotten so damn rich! Ripping all the innocent citizens off and filling them full of crap, that they will even back up the health system ripping them off. Wow, you know, now that IS called brain washed, if I do say so myself.

Isobel - posted on 07/31/2012

and what about the people who become terminally ill in their forties and only work a minimum wage job? why don't we feel sorry for them?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/31/2012

Julie, how are you offended? You did (hopefully unintentionally) refer to people who don't work and get UHC as freeloaders.

Honestly I'm more offended by your post where you tell people (and I quote) if you never worked a day in your life and are therefore ineligible for Medicare when you're older it is your own fault and I don't feel sorry for you at all. I should think most people feel the same way I do about it. There's more to be offended by in that sentance than in anything Krista posted. And really dear, I DON'T feel the way you do about it because I've worked hospice and with disabled people who have to argue with medicare and medicaid to get some extra help. And this is REGUARDLESS of whether or not someone has busted their hump. Posts like yours are where people get the idea that Americans are selfish uncaring people.

Are you saying that someone who is a SAHM and has been all her life shouldn't be able to get SSI or Medicaid when she's older simply because she hasn't worked a paying job outside of the home? How very courteous of you. *eye roll* I guess we should all pray she dies before her husband.

Thankfully here in Canada I'm eligible for UHC after I become a resident of Canada. And Canadians haven't been tricked into thinking that healthcare is a privelege. They know it's a basic human right.

Julie - posted on 07/31/2012

Krista, I'm offended by your language first of all. I mean do you really need to talk like that? If anyone has worked a job EVER in the United States you have paid into Medicare and are entitled to receive that even if you're not working at the time, once you reach age 67 or sooner should you become sick, for instance my dad started collecting at age 61 because he was dying of cancer. If you have never worked because say you are disabled? Then you can receive S.S.I. which includes medical coverage. My brother has severe Type 1 Diabetes and Epilepsy so he is on Medicaid in order to get his medications. So I am a stay at home mom currently, but based on my previous work history I will be eligible for Medicare when I'm 67 or sooner depending on circumstances. So unless someone is disabled, which I already said they would be cared for, if you never worked a day in your life and are therefore ineligible for Medicare when you're older it is your own fault and I don't feel sorry for you at all. I should think most people feel the same way I do about it.

MeMe - posted on 07/31/2012

Exactly, Krista!

Krista - posted on 07/31/2012

The other girls have it right. Here in Canada, we have UHC. And we're not a bunch of freeloaders getting something for nothing. Our taxes pay for it. But yes, we are allowed to see whatever family physician we choose (as long as that doctor is accepting new patients), and whatever specialist we choose (although a referral is needed). When I got pregnant, my family physician asked me what obstetrician I wanted to go to -- it was totally up to me. And patients who have supplemental private insurance (like myself) are not treated ANY differently than patients without it.

To me, that is TRUE freedom -- the freedom to choose my physician and my treatment, and the freedom from having to worry about being bankrupted by medical bills.

Kelly - posted on 07/31/2012

Julie, If we had UHC, you wouldn't be limited to a list of doctors you could see, you could see any doctor you wished because they would all accept UHC. You would still have to get a referral to see specialists, but it's that way with insurance now anyway, so no change. Your friends on Medicaid would also no longer be treated differently because everyone would have the same UHC coverage.



Kristi C, sorry, I get on a soapbox about immigration :P Most immigrants are like your husband, but people in general seem to think most immigrants are criminals and freeloaders--in reality, very few fit that profile.

Those making $15/hour ARE paying income taxes, and still earning much less than their legal coworkers. The way that works, is the company that hired them uses a false SS# to file their paperwork. If no numbers are available, the worker makes a lot less--usually less than minimum wage. The employer has to account for taxes for each employee, so the taxes are taken out and paid, they are just paid under a fake name not connected to the actual employee. Another trick is to give one worker 2 SS#'s so that they can have that person work 80 hours a week without having to pay overtime.



The only way they don't pay taxes is if they are paid under the table, and those jobs often pay well under minimum wage, or they pay well under what would be considered fair for back breaking work. The slaughter house in my town pays $3.75/hour, and it is one of the most sought after jobs because of the "high" pay and regular hours. Under the table jobs are rarely available in construction because of the insurance risk--if a person working illegally is injured or killed, the cover is blown and the company will be taken down, but if they have a false SS# (thus the higher wage) they will just file with that.

Rosie - posted on 07/31/2012

kristi, hope this helps explain what i said. :) i'm not someone who begrudges illegals for working and living here. part of me wishes they would do it legally, but i understand at the same time how it could be difficult to do that.http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012...

the only benefit that illegals can use is for their KIDS born here. not themselves. clinton i believe made it law that they cannot collect welfare. even legal immigrants cannot collect these services for a certain number of years after they are legal (the number escapes me) http://blog.chron.com/immigration/2008/0...

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/31/2012

Julie, if we had UHC in the US you wouldn't be drowning in Dr bills and you would have your choice of doctors to choose from. If you needed an opporation and it wasn't available in your town, you would be taken to the city it was in no charge.

UHC isn't perfect, but it's much better than what the US has.

I was also blessed to live in NY because it's one of the few states that covers maternity leave under disability leave and will pay you a portion of your income for your time off. Many states don't do that either. All of the US needs a big overhaul of how they do business in health care. They need to start treating it more like a service and less like a business for the first step.

Julie - posted on 07/31/2012

Janice, I should have been more specific. We can only choose from one insurance, but we can choose which plan we want through that insurance; low, medium or high deductible with a HSA. Also you are blessed that in NY you have received the same level of care on Medicaid that you have on insurance. In Utah that is not the case. With all the medical bills my son has versus income we didn't qualify for Medicaid so my husband works 2 jobs. All my friends that have Medicaid say that it's terrible. They are very limited as to what doctors will take it and they are treated very differently as Medicaid patients versus when they have been patients with insurance. They hate it. So as others have mentioned in this thread, Medicaid is not the same everywhere, but I'm very glad it has been helpful for your family in your time of need. With our insurance we can choose from a very long list of doctors in every field. I have lived in 4 states and with every insurance I've had even when I was in an HMO I've always had lots of doctors to choose from. I can see though if you lived in a small town your situation could be different. I totally agree with you though that Healthcare needs to be overhauled and that we need more reasonable premiums. Our premiums doubled this year from what they were last year. I do believe that everyone should have access to affordable insurance. I think that the only ones who should receive help are those who are unemployed and that they should be required to do some sort of work in exchange for receiving that help. They will feel better about themselves anyway if they earn it rather than just being given a handout. Also there needs to be strict regulation for people receiving the assistance so they have incentive to work to find a job and not just take advantage of the government supporting them. I'm not opposed to helping people in their time of need. We should all be doing it. We've been the recipient of WIC twice, once for a year when my husband lost his job and once for a few months after our son was born premature and we've been drowning in medical bills and our insurance care mananger encouraged me to apply for it. My husband could have quit his second job and we could still receive WIC, but we choose to do everything we can to provide for our family rather than take advantage so those in worse situations than us can receive that assistance. I'm not against helping others. I'm for self reliance, then families helping others, then community when all else fails. Healthcare in America definitely needs reforming, I just don't think Universal Healthcare is the answer.

Kristi - posted on 07/30/2012

I agree that illegals should have to pay to get their papers. My 2nd exhusband is from El Salvador and it costed us about $800 a year or every 18 months, can't remember which. The payment plan would definitely have benefitted us. And even moreso now him, as he lost his full time job when they eliminated 50+ jobs at the newspaper he worked for. Sure illegals pay sales tax, but they get paid under the table so they don't pay the taxes that take a huge bite out of a paycheck. Some of the illegals I know are in construction and make $15+/hr. Then there are some that have fake papers and work in fast food or as dish washers in other restaurants. So, I agree that most people are here for a chance at a better life but there are several here and are committing crimes. For example, not too long ago an illegal woman, no fake papers, no liscence, no insurance was driving drunk and killed a man. So, now she is in our prision and our government (we) are paying for her to stay here. IMO, when things like this happen, said person should be deported.

My husband basically "walked" here, when he could he hitched rides or if he stopped for a day's work, he would take a bus. Once he finally got here, he worked in a refridgerated, meat packing place, under the table and made about $8/hr. But he worked every chance he got. He also did some not so legal stuff to make money, he never told me what it was in the 9 years that I've known him. He slept on park benches and in bus stops. Once Temporary Protection was offered, he got his legal papers. Once he got those, he worked 2-3 jobs so he could send money back to his mother and father. He dropped out of school in the 2nd grade to work in the fields. He taught himself English and Math. He works harder than anybody I know. I think there are more like him than the criminals that everybody bitches about.

When I made my last comment about illegals not working, therefore not paying taxes, I was merely making a statement. I was in no way suggesting we should kick them all out, etc, whatever the recent terminology people are using. Kelly, I think it is wonderful that you are working to help those who are struggling and need assistance.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/30/2012

I agree with that Kelly. Here in Canada we have Community Resource Centres to assist new immigrants. I get off easy coming to Canada from the US because I already speak English (I can't speak French save for saying F-off please and mixing Spanish with French) I know that my situation is different from an immigrant who came from somewhere like India or even the Netherlands because a lot of our customs are the same.

But I believe if you want to stay in a country and you came here illegally then the governemnt should set up a payment plan for you since getting the money together for the visas is hard even for a middle class family- and we're not middle class at the moment. The only reason I have access to a credit card is because my husband is a citizen. If you don't have Canadian ID you can't get a credit card, If you don't have an SIN here in Canada you can't get a savings account. And if you don't have a SIN you have to go through a lot with your provincial tax centre to get a temporary tax number so you can get your CCTB.

Kelly - posted on 07/30/2012

I do agree that it cannot be free, but you must also consider the background of the person immigrating--$700 is a lot, but it's doable for most middle class families looking to move to another country. On the other hand, it is a complete impossibility for a single mom making $8/day trying to feed 3 kids.

We have medial clinics that charge on a sliding scale based on income ( I know, they're hard to find, but they do exist), so couldn't we apply the same methods to the immigration procedures/fees?

Also, people here illegally don't exactly have it easy--I work with them, I know their living conditions. You are able to charge your immigration fees to a credit card--they can't get credit cards, or even bank accounts. They carry all the cash they have on their person at all times, the color of their skin marks them for muggings and robberies that they cannot even report. Many women are here because of a scam where they were promised papers in exchange for one year's work in a sewing room, then they got here and were forced into prostitution--In most cases they do not even have an opportunity to escape, but if they do, they cannot say anything because they risk separation from their children, deportation, and sometimes even prison back in their home country.

I hate hearing citizens talk about those here illegally as if all they had to do was walk across an unguarded boarder, set up shop, and take advantage of Americas social programs. It's not that easy, and I just want people to see these people for what they are--disparate parents who want a good, safe life for their kids. Yes, they are here illegally, they are committing a crime, but rather than just complaining about them and hurting them more, we should be trying to help them--whether that be through programs to legalize their residence and integrate them into the American society, or clean up their home countries so that they can stay there peacefully. I'm rather getting sick of the selfish "not my family, not my problem" mentality of Americans, then when they need help, they whine about having no one to help them....well that's why. If you want help when you are down, you need to help others when you are up.


Okay, sorry for the rant, off my soapbox now...

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 07/30/2012

Furthermore, many Americans don't have an extra $700 lying around, plus the cost of travel, so add another $300 or so, yet they expect these poor immigrants to pay that.

Kelly, that's what Canada wants legal immigrants to pay to get their permanent resident visas here. I just had to pay that for myself and my older daughter even though my husband is a natural born citizen of Canada and I have a child with him. My husband is on disability at the moment while looking for work and I can't work. We had to put the money on my husband's credit card and pay it off. Canada's immigration laws are also stricter than the ones in the US.

I don't begrudge people wanting a better life, but I don't believe it's fair to expect a legal immigrant like myself to jump through hoops and pay thousands of dollars to stay in their new country while illegal ones stay for free. Have them work out a payment plan with the government to stay in their new country.

America3437 - posted on 07/30/2012

Life in America is difficult! My husband and I both work full time and still can't afford to put food on the table or even have gas to get back and forth to work! This country helps those who don't help themselves and leaves the others to fend for themselves. All the necessities suddenly become luxeries when you sit down to choose between medicine or food! The cost of food is outrageous and is just gonna get worse with the lack of rain for the crops and farmers. This is not the America I grew up in and it saddens me to know it is only gonna get worse from here! Our government thinks they know whats best for us but we pay all their bills! Wonder if they could make it on a average citizens salary?