I was being Nosey

Kate CP - posted on 09/30/2010

o.O

So masturbating while married is okay but if you're single its a sin?

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

You're trying to say that if you're married it's not a sin. We get it. We just don't agree that it's a sin outside of marriage because that's not what the bible says.

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

I didn't say it was wrong to give into your sexual desires INSIDE of marriage. I swear, you all are not paying attention to what I'm TRYING TO SAY and it's very frustrating. I'm going to go bake some oatmeal cookies. Please read my responses to Heather, Sara and Loureen.

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

I'm keeping up with your posts. You're just not making sense. You're saying masturbation is a sin because it's a sexual desire. I'm saying that nowhere in the Bible does it state that masturbation is a sexual desire or a sin. If YOU'D keep up with posts and actually read the links Sara gave, it addresses this specifically. You can believe the bible says whatever you want...doesn't make it true.

Kate CP - posted on 09/30/2010

It also doesn't say anything specifically about giving in to sexual desires INSIDE of marriage. Actually, it says a woman should please her husband meaning she should give in to HIS sexual desires. So basically the bible doesn't say that masturbation is a sin or that giving in to sexual desires is a sin.

So...why is this bad, again?

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

Again, Heather, I never said the Bible specifically said 'Don't masturbate'!!! If you're not going to keep up with posts, then please refrain from replying to them! I already explained that to Loureen (about it not saying specifically).

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

Nowhere in the Bible does it say don't masturbate or even list it among sins. Take a look at Sara's links. They're great information from people who read and study the bible. Even Onan wasn't masturbating, he was using the pull out method. lol

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

Ok, Heather, I never said it was a direct quote.



And Sara, I didn't mean to never give in to your sexual desires. The Bible DOES say to not give into them if you're unwed, etc, etc. And if you're masturbating and a teenager, there's a huge chance you're not married.

Good Day! - posted on 09/30/2010

Kate, I've debated Onan and the spilling of seed with someone on here before. While this explanation is slightly lacking, the third link on my previous post kind of touches that issue.

Kate CP - posted on 09/30/2010

The Shakers believe you shouldn't give in to sexual desires at all so they don't have sex or masturbate. They are also dying out.

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

The bible doesn't say "Don't give in to your sexual desires". It addresses innapropriate sexual desires and who it's appropriate to have sexual relations with, but you're free to give in to sexual desires with the appropriate person. Unfortunately, the Catholic church perverted these teachings to control their followers and create a need for them to buy their way into heaven. Many common beliefs by Christians today stem from these perversions of scripture. Just because you're taught something doesn't mean it's true. You should endevour to learn why you've been taught that way. Otherwise, you're just mindlessly following what fallable people are saying in the name of God.

Kate CP - posted on 09/30/2010

Actually, the bible does state that masturbating is a sin IF you are a man. Spilling a man's seed is a sin and should not be done. Doesn't say anything about women, though. So slap that mackerel, ladies!

Good Day! - posted on 09/30/2010

Hmmm....there would be no Christians if Christians didn't give into sexual desires. They would have been extinct long ago. I wouldn't have a child and one on the way.

I stumbled on this website a few months back. More than anything, I think it's funny that there is a website about sex for married Christians. Anyway, here are the links to what they have to say about masturbation.

http://themarriagebed.com/pages/bible/ap...

http://themarriagebed.com/pages/bible/ap...

http://themarriagebed.com/pages/bible/ap...

http://themarriagebed.com/pages/bible/ap...

http://themarriagebed.com/pages/bible/ap...

Amie - posted on 09/30/2010

"Do you not sexually desire your husband and have sex ? if the answer is yes you are giving it to sexual desire so whats your point ."

Exactly right Loureen. Which is why nuns and some priests (and what have you) take a vow of celibacy.

Charlie - posted on 09/30/2010

Do you not sexually desire your husband and have sex ? if the answer is yes you are giving it to sexual desire so whats your point .

But lets put this in perspective a CHILD is not having sexual desires , they are just touching what feels good to them .

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

Again, Loureen.. I never said the Bible SPECIFICALLY stated masturbation was wrong. IT CLEARLY states that giving in to your sexual desires is wrong. Masturbation is just that- giving in to your sexual desires. If I can find the verse for you, I will.

Teresa - posted on 09/30/2010

According to the link that Heather posted... the Bible doesn't specifically forbid masturbation. Therefore, my opinion and belief still stands that masturbation in and of itself is NOT a sin. The thing is though.... if you (whoever you may be) DO believe that something is a sin and you continue to do it anyway... that IS a sin. So, for Christina, masturbation may very well be a sin, but for me... it is not. Unless something is specifically forbidden in scripture (this only applies to those that believe in the Bible, of course) then whether or not it is a sin is up to interpretation and is and should remain strictly between that person and God.

Charlie - posted on 09/30/2010

Hey its an honest observation , i am debating your opinion based on everything you have posted .



This is a debate community is it not ?



Im sorry you feel im "tearing down your beliefs " because it is not my intention however if the topic at hand uses religion as its basis then you better believe i will debate the fact if i find it to be untrue , please by all means show me a specific verse that mentions masturbation itself , i would love to see a real opposing opinion .



I in no way am imposing my views on you , not once have have i enforced my opinion on you to follow or believe so please spare me the tantrum .





de·bate (d-bt)

v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates

v.intr.

1. To consider something; deliberate.

2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.

3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.

4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.

v.tr.

1. To deliberate on; consider.

2. To dispute or argue about.

3. To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.

4. Obsolete To fight or argue for or over.

n.

1. A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.

2. Deliberation; consideration: passed the motion with little debate.

3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.

4. Obsolete Conflict; strife.

Amie - posted on 09/30/2010

Christina you are not understanding. You may think God said "don't masturbate", Loureen has pointed out that is not true.

You can believe what you wish but if you don't want it to be challenged do not post it here. It's a debate group, it will be challenged.

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

No, Amie.. It's not fact. If anything ever written about everything was fact, then why are we debating anything at all?



Point being, YOU may believe that- I don't. Just like some people choose to believe that aliens came down to Earth and blah, blah, blah.. Others don't.

Amie - posted on 09/30/2010

Pointing out a fact is not rude Christina. If you don't want your beliefs to be scrutinized, a debate board is not where you should post them.

Teresa - posted on 09/30/2010

Thanks Nikki. Your apology wasn't necessary, but extremely appreciated. :)

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

"the mere fact you say masturbation is wrong and then go on to say your open about sex is a huge contradiction ."

No, it is not, really. I can think masturbation is wrong and still talk openly about sex and all that it entails- with my family and friends. Those are two UNRELATED topics! You can think drugs are wrong and still talk about drug related things.. You can think rape is wrong and still talk about rapists and such.. What's so contradictory about thinking masturbating is wrong but still being able to talk openly about sex?? I don't get your train of thought right now. It doesn't make sense. My parents taught me that masturbating is wrong, but they taught me to be open with them. Even though now it's only my mom, siblings and friends (dad passed away when I was 9), I can still talk about anything with them- and that includes sex.

Also, I really don't appreciate you tearing down my beliefs. If you believe that, that's fine. Don't push it on me. I don't push my faith on you at all. I don't go telling you that whatever the heck you believe in isn't really from who you believe it to be from, now do I? So why go down that path at all? That's very rude, Loureen.

Amie - posted on 09/30/2010

There is nothing wrong with masturbation. It is completely ridiculous that anyone teaches their child that this is wrong. It is just more exploration of their body, leading to a healthy understanding of themselves.



People claim they are sexually well adjusted but in reality not everyone is. Not everyone knows their own body or is even comfortable with it. If they were, masturbation wouldn't be an issue now would it?



I teach my children masturbation is ok, exploring your body and finding out all the ins and outs is beneficial for them. One day they will engage in sexual activity. That day they will know what feels good for them, because they will have the confidence and knowledge in their own bodies, so they can relay it to their partner.



So long as my children continue to keep it private, I have no issue with it. It did not take long to teach any of them this either. Two or three times of directing them to their bedroom with a "You need to do that in private" sufficed.



Edit to add:



They were not infants when I started these discussion either. As infants I just moved their hands if they were poopy and ignored it any other time.

Nikki - posted on 09/30/2010

That's interesting Loureen, thanks for the research. Just my own person logic here, but I would have considered that someone who has a disposition to potentially become a sex offender maybe more likely if their sexual feelings are repressed, maybe I am being naive again, it may just be that they can't control it, I am not talking about psychopath's (obviously their need to do the wrong this is inherent regardless of sexual desires and repression) I don't know I could be completely wrong?

Rosie - posted on 09/30/2010

sorry, but a infant isn't having erotic thoughts about the opposite sex. that is one of the most ridiculous things i've seen in a while. everybody has the urge to do it, it's human nature. nobody is being hurt by it, and plenty of people are VERY pleased with it (hehe) so what the hell is the big deal with it? the bible says it's a sin (not really, but you know you can twist it into what you want it too say), i say so what? the bible also says that having slaves is great, and women shouldn't teach or do much of anything else for that matter. hope you havn't spoken in church lately, and hurry up and grab yourself a slave....somehow people miss those parts of the bible.

Charlie - posted on 09/30/2010

I dont know christina no offence but several posts of yours discussing topics of a sexual nature would suggest otherwise the mere fact you say masturbation is wrong and then go on to say your open about sex is a huge contradiction .

No where in the bible does it specifically say masturbation is a sin ,The sexual morality of Christianity did not come from Jesus. It instead came from later Christians whose main interest was the control of the masses. It is important to recognize the source of religious dogma about sex - when and where it came from - and put it in perspective in present time and circumstances.



And we are talking about sexualty not ones sporting abilities lets stay on topic we all know physical activity relieves stress .



Experts on sociology and phsycology all agree masturbation is "a normal phenomenon of sexual development" the very fact a child will find it on their own accord is proof .



An interesting article on sexual repression .



This was an exploratory investigation the purpose of which was to compare sexually repressed and nonrepressed child abuse offenders on therapy progress and on a battery of personality and research instruments. From information obtained on a psychosexual history interview, 68 child molesters were categorized as either repressed, nonrepressed or exploitive. Results indicated that a significantly larger proportion of therapy failures were offenders who were sexually repressed. There were also significant differences between repressed and nonrepressed offenders on some of the special research scales of the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, the Burt Rape Myth Scales, some of the Multiphasic Sex Inventory scales and the Mosher's Sex Guilt Scale. Differences on these measures are consistent with the characteristics of intrafamilial child molesters reported in the clinical and research literature.

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

"Repressing a persons sexuality and teaching them masturbation is wrong can and does have dire effect on their sexuality as an adult."

Not all the time, Loureen. My family was taught that it was wrong and we have had no ill effects regarding our sexuality. We know our sexual orientation and we are very open about sex- always have been.

It also has nothing to do with controlling one's sexuality, and to even suggest that is just ludicrous. We believe it's a sin b/c in the Bible it tells us not to give in to our sexual desires- and masturbating IS giving in to our sexual desires. Not to say that I've never done it, or that no Christian has ever done it, but it is controllable. You don't have to masturbate to relieve tension or stress. Go play basketball, go to the gym, join a drama group, go dancing, do karaoke. There are MORE PRODUCTIVE ways to relieve tension and stress than to 'go at it'.

I don't believe we are born with the instinct to masturbate. We are human and humans have sexual desires. That does not mean we should always give into them.

@Nikki.. I think that those who are sexual predators had much more going on than a parent telling them that masturbation is a sin. Maybe psychopath parents might drill it into their skulls and beat them, but MOST people who teach their kids that masturbation is a sin, also be sure to teach them that we are human and humans always make mistakes..

Charlie - posted on 09/30/2010

Repressing a persons sexuality and teaching them masturbation is wrong can and does have dire effect on their sexuality as an adult.

It IS perfectly natural to masturbate in fact masturbation is not only natural it is benificial for your health .
Male masturbation keeps their sperm supply fresh ( meaning stronger swimmers ) relieves tension and stress in women and men and helps one discover where their most sensitive of areas .
Babies touch their genitals because it feels good NOT because they are having lusty thoughts , it is self exploration .
WE ARE BORN WITH THIS INSTINCT FOR A REASON .

I also want to add with out intent to offend that i find the religious aspect of masturbation to be a sin just one invented way to control the masses because if you can control a persons sexuality then you find them weaker and at a point where control is much easier .

When so many are afraid to have their children do what is natural for fear it could be construed as the child being abused BUT i feel suppressing a childs abilty to explore their bodies and sexuality a HUGE diservice to them as sexually aware adults , in my mind destroying a persons sexuality by deeming it wrong is the real abuse here .

Teresa - posted on 09/30/2010

Nikki, your statement would be a lot more accurate and a lot less offensive if you added the word SOME before Christians. ;)

Nikki - posted on 09/30/2010

SECOND EDIT* Holy Crap, I never knew that*SOME* Christians were against masturbation, how naive am I! I find this really strange, in fact a little creepy, way to give your kid hang ups and complexes about their body and sex! So if your not allowed to masturbate how do boys/men in particular deal with the frustration if they are not sexually active with a partner?? I would imagine it could lead to some screwed up behaviours involving aggression, I wonder if if there is any correlation between abstinence of masturbation and sexual assault and rape? just a thought??



EDIT I in no way wish to offend anyone, I am well aware that sexual predators rarely act because of sexual frustration, but it makes me wonder?

Sorry Teresea :)

Teresa - posted on 09/30/2010

Thanks for posting that Heather.

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_masturb...

Just found this article and it's an interesting read about the subject of masturbation vs. what the Bible actually says.

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

Thanks Joy! I couldn't think of the actual quote and have definitely misplaced my Bible! See what happens when I take things out of context and don't do my research? ;)

Joy - posted on 09/30/2010

From Yahoo Answers:



“it is better to spill your seed in the belly of a whore, than to spill it on the ground.”



That is NOT a Bibically quoted, rather It was a 19th century mis-interpretation of the story of Onan in Genesis that was commonly cited in the 19th and early 20th century:

“And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up see to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.”

--The Bible, Genesis 38:8-10



From Genesis, the oldest book in the Bible. Soon as I saw the phrase brought up, I got curious lol

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

I get what you're saying Jackie and I certainly don't think it's better to pick up a hooker than masturbate.lol I was just providing an example of how some religious people could take that one phrase and turn it into no masturbation. It also fit the time it was written. The infant mortality rate during those times was crazy high and I'm sure if people looked at the bigger picture they would get the point that people needed to procreate instead of just pleasuring themselves. IMO ;)

Jackie - posted on 09/30/2010

@ Heather - In this day, would you agree that it's better to "spill your seed in the belly of a whore than let it fall to the earth?' Or maybe I shouldn't ask that to you directly but it does add a whole other spin to the conversation.

Is that an outdated way of thinking? What with STD's and such as prominent as they are in today society. Could that passage be taken in more than one way and people use it to fit their own needs or personal agenda? Meaning, if someone thinks masturbating is disgusting, they would take that passage to mean that people shouldn't masturbate. OR Could that passage mean something totally different if you read the WHOLE chapter. I don't know if that makes since....

Heather - posted on 09/30/2010

Well, as a "kinda Christian" ;P, I believe there's a passage in the Bible saying something about, it's better to spill your seed in the belly of a whore than let it fall to the earth....I'm seriously paraphrasing, but maybe one of the atheists here can help me out. lol So much of religious "no-no's" come from Catholic dogma(stuff the pope said was law, not Christ). Another reason it's so important to learn the history of your religion and why you believe a certain way.

Jackie - posted on 09/30/2010

Here it is - But like I said - I wasn't sure if I should post it.



http://www.circleofmoms.com/lds-moms/Wha...



Also I don't think she thought her son was masturbating at 10 months. I think she was asking how does she teach him that masturbation is wrong when he gets older if she doesn't nip in the bud now...



I dunno. When it comes to my 19mo lil girl, I just say something like, " you're only supposed to do that when no bodies lookin." (jokingly)

Jackie - posted on 09/30/2010

Hang on and I'll find it... I was going to in the first place but I wasn't sure if it was appropriate being that it was snooping in a religious site that didn't pertain to me...



Edited to add: I'm not bashing anybody for their beliefs I was genuinely curious ( I will also add that I do NOT agree that masturbation is wrong)

C. - posted on 09/30/2010

Ok, well.. I was taught the same thing- that masturbation was a sin. Some people consider it a sin b/c you're giving in to your sexual desires before you're meant to. If you're not religious, don't worry about it. (Meaning don't worry about what others are teaching their kids).

I will teach mine the same thing, b/c I do agree with it.

With that being said, I highly doubt a 10 month old would be masturbating. Young babies and children explore themselves all the time. Those are the chances to tell them what their body parts are. They touch their feet- 'That's your left foot, that's your right foot'. They touch their belly- 'That's your belly where your food goes, that's your belly button, etc'. They touch their privates- 'That's your penis. You pee from your penis.' or 'That's your vagina.' It's not masturbation at that age.

Teresa - posted on 09/29/2010

So.... where's the link to this post? ;)

Johnny - posted on 09/29/2010

Ah, the passing down of perversions and hang-ups from one generation to the next. It isn't about religion. It's about fear. People are afraid of the power of sex so they use god as an excuse to hide from it. I think some churches fear that if people were satisfied in other ways, they wouldn't need to seek religion. If more people masturbated and did it well, we'd have a lot less problems in the world.

And anyone who thinks that a 10 month old touching themselves is a sexual thing is a great big giant pervert themselves. PERV!

Jodi - posted on 09/29/2010

I agree that a 10 month old isn't masturbating when he discovers his penis anymore than he is when he discovers he has hands and decides to chew on them! BUT, I was raised catholic and hardcore at that (no longer belong to that religion though!) I went to catholic school for 8 years where we were taught allllll about the sins of sex! (Keep in mind, these were things I was taught barely over a decade ago!)
1) premarital sex is a sin (most people know this one)
2)masturbating is a sin, they told us it God considered it cheating on your spouse or some such thing.
3) Birth control outside of abstinence or the rhythm method is a sin.

Go figure, with the last one, 5 girls just from my class were preggo before graduation! lol If that's their religious belief so be it...but I certainly wouldn't view bodily discovery as masturbation, but then again, they never covered that part in school!!! lol

Stifler's - posted on 09/29/2010

AHAHAHA. He's 10 months old he doesn't understand masturbation, he's just playing! I think it is seen as a sin although everyone even religious people probably secretly do it.

Charlene - posted on 09/29/2010

Seriously?

That poor boy. Gracie has started doing the same thing and at 14 months, I just let her be. Unless there is poo there.. then I try to get her to wait. :P

When she gets a little older, I will teach her that it's OKAY to explore her body, but there is a time and a place for it.



Speaking from experience, attitudes, like the one from that woman, are what create (for lack of a better phrase) an uncomfortable sex life later on. When I was younger I was always taught that it was wrong, so now I am very uncomfortable when it comes to masturbation and sex. I am slowly breaking out of my comfort zone, but I feel as though it wouldn't be so difficult if I hadn't been told for so long that it was wrong and dirty. I know now that it isn't, but changing that mind set when in the bedroom is easier said than done.



And even though I am not a religious person, I have to agree with Teresa and say that the act in itself is not wrong. It's when a person becomes obsessed with it that it can get out of hand.



Now I'm going to scurry over to PD&HT to re-post. ;)

Teresa - posted on 09/29/2010

Yes you can!

Oops... is that too much information? ;)

Yes, lust is a sin, but LUST is the sin... not the masturbation and I highly doubt a 10 month old is lusting while touching his penis.....

Krista - posted on 09/29/2010

Yeah, some people have serious hangups about sexuality and body parts. I mean, the poor baby is just exploring his body, the same as he would his feet or his belly button. I feel sorry for those kids, because the odds are very high that they'll be taught to be ashamed of their bodies and their sexuality, and those hangups will just keep being passed down through generations.

Not that I believe in a god, but if there WAS one, and he made our bodies, why would he want us to be ashamed of any part of them?

Isobel - posted on 09/29/2010

well...the crazy lady from Delaware says that it's a sin because you do not masterbate without lust in your heart...and lust in your heart is a sin (a form of adultery?)

Teresa - posted on 09/29/2010

Thanks Joy. :)